Redundancy isn’t just a business process. It’s a loss. And with loss comes grief. In this episode I explore what’s really happening beneath the surface when someone is told their role is at risk and why understanding grief can completely change how you lead through redundancy.

From shock and anger to silence and overwhelm, these are natural human responses, not reactions to be managed or rushed. I talk about practical strategies to help you support line managers and ensure the emphasis stays on the person at the heart of the process.

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Welcome to today's episode

of Redundancy Matters.

2

I'm June Hogan, and this is the

podcast for I help HR professionals

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and leaders managing redundancies to

put people at the heart of the process.

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And today I want to talk about something

that I don't think's named often enough.

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In organizations when redundancies

are happening, because we might

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call redundancies a restructuring or

workplace change or transformation,

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but thinking about it from

the individual's perspective,

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what's really happening there?

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Is loss and with loss can come grief.

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So what I want to do today is to talk

about how understanding redundancy

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through the lens of grief can potentially

change how you lead through redundancies

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and how you support leaders to notice

what might be going on for somebody

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and to enable them to support someone

if they are experiencing those.

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Entirely natural reactions that will come

as a result of a loss in someone's life.

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Now, I previously recorded a podcast

about the emotion of redundancy, and I'll

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put a link to that in the show notes.

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And this episode today really is about

building on that and going a bit deeper

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into the notion of grief and job loss.

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So I guess when most of us hear the

word grief, you're gonna think about

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bereavement, and that's entirely natural.

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And throughout this podcast, I'm

gonna be drawing on some of the

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work of David Kessler, , who spent

decades, , working in the field of grief.

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And he also has done some work

alongside Liz, Elizabeth Kubler Ross,

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who introduced the change curve.

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And both of them remind us that

grief isn't something that's

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just limited to bereavement.

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Because job loss is significant.

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It's not just about losing a salary.

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It's about losing identity.

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That sense of community losing structure,

the rhythm of a daily life, losing

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that sense of direction, , losing hope

for what the future could have held.

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. And there's so much of our identity

that is wrapped up in our jobs.

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It shapes how we introduce us.

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It shapes how we feel about

ourselves in connection to

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others, our place in the world.

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And for some people, our

jobs provide a sense.

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Sense of sanctuary and comfort from

what can be difficult personal lives.

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So when all of that disappears,

not through choice, that's when

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the emotions will come out.

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So emotions such as shock, maybe

anger, could be sadness or disbelief.

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Anxiety, the fear overwhelm.

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And for some people it can be a relief.

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And when you think about.

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Grief and the reaction

that comes from that loss.

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Thinking about it not something that

needs to be fixed, but thinking about

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it as emotions that need space and

opportunity for someone to explore.

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And helping people through that

grief and those feelings of loss

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is something that we do with our

outplacement support services.

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And I see people who are grieving

, , some of whom recognize that.

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And some of whom don't.

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And I always remember a client

saying to me who had never

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experienced redundancy before, they

said, oh, does it sound strange?

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But I feel like I did

when my grandfather died.

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And I said, no.

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It doesn't sound strange at

all because you are grieving

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for something that mattered.

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You're grieving for a job that you loved

with a company that you'd worked for.

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This individual had been there.

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Literally their whole career.

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And so yes, those feelings are very real.

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And those are feelings of loss and of

grief that can feel very similar to

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when you are grieving the loss of a

loved one or experiencing bereavement.

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So it's interesting that grief can come

up for people whether or not they realize

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it, whether or not they expect it, and.

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When you are supporting individuals

through those moments, in those initial

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phases, it's really important to just

give them the space and the time to

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just let those emotions come out and

let them just be, and to just sit

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there, which I know can be hard to do.

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Because it can be that our sort of natural

reaction is to try and calm someone

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down when we see those big emotions at

play that can come out in redundancy

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meetings or during the process itself.

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But when you think about

the distinction between.

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Pain and suffering and grief, and that's

something which David Kessler talks

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about is that the pain that someone

is feeling is the inevitable loss.

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That losing their job and the pain,

the emotion associated with that,

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and the suffering can come when that

pain is dismissed or maybe rushed,

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or somebody's trying to sort of

minimize it or brush it under the

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carpet as it were, because the pain of

redundancy is something that's real.

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But the suffering can tend to

come when someone feels like.

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They're kind of just being ignored

or maybe just being managed through

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a process rather than being treated

as a person in a difficult situation.

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Now it's not possible to remove

the pain of redundancy because

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difficult decisions have to be

made commercially, and I get that.

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But this is about understanding

how you can help to minimize the

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suffering, , that somebody might

be going through as a result.

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Okay, so what does that actually

all mean in practice then?

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So these are a few things that

can maybe bring it to life.

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So preparing line managers to go into

redundancy conversations and understanding

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the legal context is very important.

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They need to understand that

this sits within, , a wider

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process as part of, employment or

regulations, that's super important.

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They need to understand the timelines,

how consultation works, the various

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different steps, and have a framework

and potentially have a script if

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that's what you're gonna be using.

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But the really important part

as well is preparing them for.

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What the emotions could be

like in that conversation.

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And that's something which when I

was managing redundancies back in

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my corporate career, I didn't always

pay enough attention to, because I

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was focused on the process and the

timelines and making sure everyone

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had got the pacs and the information.

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And just kind of assuming that,

well, they, they don't know

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what to do in these situations.

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You know, do I need to be explicit about

what to do when someone starts crying?

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And often then, because I was in those

meetings, I would then be the person

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who would kind of pick up the emotion,

if you like, but it's not always

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practical to have somebody from HR

in redundancy consultation meetings.

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Sometimes your managers might be

going to do that on their own.

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So one of the most helpful

things that I think.

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HR teams can do is prepare managers

for that range of reactions.

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So they might experience somebody who

is in shock, so they've glazed over,

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they're really not taking the information

in anymore, and they've just checked

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out because they're just overwhelmed.

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Adhering those words.

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Your role is a risk of redundancy,

and that's really, that's

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a really natural response.

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You might have someone who is angry,

their emotions have taken over.

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And they're so upset and their emotions

are being driven by that notion of maybe

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fear, of maybe that they're scared,

maybe they just can't take it all in.

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So their response is

to present, with anger.

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Some people might start crying and

not know why they're crying, but the

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crying and the tears will come and

other people will just go completely

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quiet and , you might not be able

to get a sense of what's going on.

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Those are all normal reactions, but.

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If it's about dismissing those

reactions and trying to move on and

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move quickly through the process, then

that's where that notion of people

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either not feeling like they've been

heard, valued, or listened to, and that

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connection between the pain and suffering

of grief that I mentioned earlier.

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So it can be something as simple

as giving line managers some

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simple phrases that they can use

when they might feel a bit unsure.

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So for example, something like, I

can see this has come as a shock,

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so you are acknowledging what

somebody might be going through.

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Or I can understand this is a

lot to take in at the moment.

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And then you might go on to say, we

don't have to rush this conversation.

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We can take a pause if you'd like.

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Take a break.

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Let me know if you want me to carry on.

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So you are really acknowledging

the individual, you're connecting

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with what's happening for them.

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You're not trying to dismiss it,

move it on, or offer platitudes

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around, oh, well it's, it, it

must be a shock, but don't worry.

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Everything, it'll be fine.

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So that kind of language allows a line

manager to acknowledge what's happening,

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but it doesn't lead to an escalation.

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And it can help to give

them the confidence to stay

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present in that emotion.

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And often that is just by being silent.

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That is just by giving someone

the space to talk or express that

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emotion as it's coming out for them.

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And so one of the most important moments

in that redundancy process is when someone

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hears that news, they hear your, the

words, your role is at risk of redundancy.

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So I'd recommend that, you'd

avoid the long sort of buildups or

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complicated business explanations.

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There's obviously got to be a sound

business rationale, but it needs to

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be put forward clearly and simply.

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And then once you've delivered

that, that bit of news is to pause.

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Let the person absorb what they've heard,

because often they're not gonna hear

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it all because they've gone into shock.

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So slowing down in that

moment is important as well.

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And I understand that it can feel daunting

to be going into that kind of meeting,

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not knowing the reaction that you might

be faced with, and that maybe things will

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just spiral out of control completely.

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Now that's very sort of rare

that that's, that happens.

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I have seen lots of intense emotions

when I manage redundancies in my

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corporate career, but when someone.

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Feels heard and acknowledged,

and if someone's angry,

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then that is rec recognized.

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You've acknowledged it, so

I can appreciate this is

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hard for you at the moment.

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I can understand there's a lot to

take in those sorts of phrases.

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Or if someone's upset, then

there's a space with 'em to pause.

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Then it's not about going in

and trying to fix everything.

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But it's just about allowing

that emotion to sit there.

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And often what people need most

is to just be treated with that

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respect and that patience, and to be

allowed to express those emotions.

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And you might also say something like.

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If you've got any questions, if

there's anything I can clarify,

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then please, I'm here for you.

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I'm here to support you.

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So you are giving the individual

the opportunity however they might

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be reacting, to let them know that

it's your role to support them.

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That if there's anything they don't

understand, because perhaps those

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emotions and those reactions are because

they're confused, then you are there.

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And you might not be able to

answer the question in the moment,

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but you can take that away.

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And a question that is quite powerful and,

and if that's appropriate at the time,

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is, what do you need from me right now?

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Or what do you need right now?

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Yeah, because you are putting the

emphasis back onto the individual.

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You're giving them a sense of agency.

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You are letting them know that

this might feel out of control.

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But if there's something that they

need, if there's just one thing that

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they can hold onto that they need,

and even if that might be, I just need

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to take a break, then you are giving

them that sense of ownership and

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they know that you're here for them.

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For whatever they might need that

is practical and possible for

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you to do within the process.

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And of course the meeting's only really

the start because a lot of people

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will reflect on what they've heard.

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They'll go home, they'll have a think

about it, they'll talk to their family,

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start thinking about what happens next.

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And of course, that's where

good outplacement support

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can make a big difference.

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But one of the things that is

really important outside of.

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The formal meetings that managers

are visible, that managers are

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present, they're available, and

that they're checking in on people.

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Particularly if there has

been , an emotional reaction in

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the meeting that they've had.

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Because redundancy can feel like

something that's been done to someone.

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And when you are offering that support

outside of the meetings or you are

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offering outplacement support, then it

helps people to regain some control.

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It helps to reduce some of that isolation.

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And let them know that they're not alone.

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And importantly, it's about that

dignity in that respect to support

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someone through what can be a

difficult time in their career.

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And another group of people that

can be going through that grief

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process are the people who remain

in the organization, the people who

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aren't directly impacted because they

can be grieving, the loss of their

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colleagues, the loss of their friends.

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They can be.

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Grieving the loss of what was

an organization that they knew

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and were familiar with and , or

a job for them that's changing.

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So there can be things happening

all around where the people who

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remain are just asked to carry

on with business as usual, and

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there can be a disconnect there.

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For some of those survivors, as

they're called, so they can be going

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through their own version of grief.

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And in the same way that you're gonna

support somebody who's going through

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redundancy process and experiencing

some strong emotions, then asking

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and expecting your leaders to.

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Acknowledge what somebody who remains in

the organization might be going through,

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rather, well, you know, you are lucky

that you haven't been made redundant.

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You've still got a job, so

you know what's the problem?

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It's not about that.

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It's about again, saying, , I recognize

this has been difficult for you.

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We've lost some talented colleagues.

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It's been a difficult time,

and it's okay if things feel

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a bit unsettled for a while.

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Let's keep the communication open.

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Let's keep talking and keep checking in.

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Because this is new territory for

all of us or something like that.

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So whilst you might have the spreadsheet,

you might have everything arranged and

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organized and the timelines, et cetera,

is just remembering that at the heart

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of this, you're dealing with somebody

who's gonna be experiencing loss.

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And that may present itself as grief.

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And so when you think about supporting

someone who might be grieving, then it

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just encourages conversations to slow

down, to make sure that language is

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really clear, and that empathy increases

as well, which is hugely important when

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someone is experiencing redundancy.

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Because yes, redundancies are necessary.

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They are a necessary part

of organizational life.

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But how you lead through

that is always a choice.

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And as Maya Angelou said, and I love these

words, and you may have heard them before,

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is that people will forget what you said.

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People will forget what you

did, but people will never

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forget how you made them feel.

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So people aren't gonna remember the

words of the business rationale,

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but they will remember when they

felt respected, whether they felt

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dismissed, or whether they felt seen.

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So closing this, I'm thinking that

maybe the question isn't how do

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we manage redundancy well, but how

do we lead people through loss?

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And just thinking about

that shift in perspective.

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Because if we recognize that what

we are witnessing in dealing with

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is grief and not that resistance or

that overreaction or someone being

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dramatic, then something changes in how.

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You show up as a HR leader and how

leaders show up themselves, and that

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really is where the key to being able

to support someone on an individual

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level as an individual person,

experiencing redundancy in their own

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way and helping to lead and guide and

support them through that process.

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So that's what they remember about the

lasting impressions of their organization

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when things were difficult and when you as

a leader had to make difficult decisions.

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So I hope that's been a helpful

episode just to talk about grief,

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thinking about that as a different

perspective leading through redundancy.

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There's lots of information on my website.

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There's a link in the show notes

there to other podcast episodes,

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to blogs to help you support line

managers lead through redundancy.

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And also if you want to take

a deeper dive into anything.

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Related to managing redundancies.

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, I also do a monthly free, one hour

lunch and learn with a colleague where

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we dive into different aspects of the

technical side of managing redundancies.

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Everyone is welcome and it'd

be lovely to see you there.

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So until next time, thanks for listening.

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Thank you so much for listening

to the Redundancy Matters podcast.

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I hope you found today's episode helpful.

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It would mean a lot to me if you

would follow rate and review this

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podcast wherever you listen to your

podcasts, as this helps it reach more

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people who are managing redundancies.

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Let me know what you thought,

and if you have ideas for future

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episodes, I'd love to hear from you.

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You can find me on LinkedIn, June

Hogan, and get in touch via my

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website, wildwood coaching.co.uk,

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where you'll also find more resources

to help you manage redundancies.

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I hope you'll join me again soon for

the next episode of Redundancy Matters.