In this episode of The Beauty Equation Podcast, Dr. Christelle Oliver-Dussault, Dr. Harpreet Lotay, and Amanda Manholt dive into one of the most common (and most frustrating) changes women notice in their 40s, 50s, and beyond—the sudden feeling that the face has “melted.” Using their signature relatable analogies (including the unforgettable bed-frame/mattress/duvet comparison), the hosts break down why sagging happens, how hormones and bone loss accelerate the shift, and why it can feel like it happens overnight. They explore the full spectrum of treatment options—from skincare and sun protection, to collagen regeneration, to dermal fillers, to when a facelift might be worth considering. Most importantly, they highlight the power of individualized assessment, the role of genetics, and how subtle, strategic treatments can restore lift, light, and confidence without changing who you are.

Disclaimer: The Beauty Equation is for informational purposes only and not medical advice. This podcast does not create a doctor–patient relationship. Always consult a qualified healthcare provider before making medical or aesthetic decisions. Information may change as the field evolves.

Thanks for listening!

Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page.

Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!

Subscribe to the podcast

If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or on your favourite podcast app. 

Leave us an Apple Podcasts review

Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review.

About the Hosts:

Dr. Harpreet Lotay is a family physician specializing in aesthetic medicine. She is the founder of Sona MD in Kamloops, BC, and serves as Chief Medical Officer at Bios Wellness Clinics. Known for her artistic approach and comprehensive non-surgical treatments, Dr. Lotay combines medical expertise with an eye for natural results. She is also an educator, a national trainer and holds academic appointments where she shares her knowledge in clinical dermatology and aesthetics. You can get in touch with her on Instagram @hlotaymd

Dr. Christelle Oliver-Dussault is a family physician specializing in aesthetic medicine, women’s health, and psycho-education. She brings a holistic, whole-person perspective to her clinical work, blending science with a deep understanding of the mind-body connection.

She is also the founder of Reclaim The Pink Within, a movement that empowers women to rediscover themselves during life’s most transformative stages. In addition, she is passionate about medical education and mentors the next generation of family physicians through her work with the department of Family Medicine at the University of British Columbia.

You can connect with her on Instagram @drchristellemd

Amanda Manholt is a clinic manager, patient consultant, and co-host of The Beauty Equation Podcast. With over 30 years of experience in beauty, aesthetics, and leadership, she has guided patients and teams alike toward confidence, growth, and empowerment. Known for her ability to connect with people and simplify the often-overwhelming world of aesthetics, Amanda brings a warm, practical, and relatable perspective to every conversation. You can find her on Instagram @crowsfeetandconfidence.

Websites

https://sonamd.ca/

https://www.getyourpinkbackproject.com/

One of the misconceptions that people have is that facelift is permanent. It's

a permanent solution. It's not. There's expiration

date to facelifts too. So many people will have

a revision of a facelift, you know, five to seven

to 10 years down the road. So it's not forever. So

you want to ask yourself, if you want to have surgery,

will you want it again in 10 years? And the surgery is really

just lifting and pulling the skin. It's like, you know, you've

washed your sheets, you iron them, and you pull them on the bed, but you

haven't fixed the mattress and you haven't fixed the bed frame. So it's

important to keep those structures in mind. And oftentimes it

can be a useful procedure to do as an add on if you want to,

while addressing other things. And if you're going to start from the outside in

the skin, the first thing you can address is that collagen loss, that

elastin loss, all the changes that happen in your deeper skin layers.

Welcome back to the beauty equation. I'm Dr. Christelle Oliver Dusseau.

And I'm Dr. Harpreet Lotte. And I'm Amanda

Manhole. Last time we spoke about

the sad face, and today we're moving on to

the saggy face that sometimes women will come into us and tell

us, I woke up and I felt like my face had

melted off. Like there was a candle and it just,

you know, burnt all night. And now everything is hanging down.

I think you've had a lot of those. Oh, the joys of getting

older. You have a fantastic

analogy that I've heard you use many times about

the mattress and the bed frame. Do you want to share that with everyone

today? Yeah. Well, I think it's important for people to understand

that, you know, aging is not one dimensional. It's not like

one thing typically is making

them feel like they woke up and went, oh, my gosh, what happened? It's not

just their skin. So if we think about the

structure of the human head, I think about

bone. And bone is that, you know, if you think about a bed and you've

got a bed frame, you know, you went to Ikea or wherever, you

got your Allen key and you put it together. So the hard part that the

mattress sits on, you can sort of think of that as representing the

bone or the skull. Then we have the mattress,

and the mattress is that nice squishy thing that you get to lay on.

And it, I think, represents the

fat of the face. And. And I guess it would also have to do

with muscle, but it's the soft. You know, the squishy. The part you can squish.

And then on top of that mattress, we have a duvet, and that would

be the skin. So when we've

lived a life and been in the sun and lost weight, gained

weight, our head's shrunk because we're getting older, all of these things can

be affected. And when, you know, we've lost

underlying support or the bed frame has shrunk, it can change how

the mattress sits. And when the mattress gets a little lumpy and squished

down, it can change how the duvet looks. And then, you know, the duvet,

you can. Your dog can jump on it, like at my house, and there might

be paw prints on it, dark spots. So

that's kind of a global thing. That's

the dummies version of what you guys do.

I think that's a great analogy. It is, yeah. And it really

highlights. Oftentimes we'll see that in women who have just gone through the

menopause, and it really highlights that shift when you have that estrogen

drop off. When your ovaries are no longer producing estrogen, you stop getting

periods, your collagen drops off by about 30%.

So it's no wonder that you wake up one day and you

feel like everything has changed, because it has.

Totally. And, you know, we have gradual volume

loss in all the structures, like you said, Amanda. So we do lose

volume in our skull, like a significant amount.

And. And then on top of it, as we're losing

that collagen, it's kind of like you do hit a tipping point where

you're kind of holding it all together until that last

little needle drops, and all of a sudden it looks very

different. So all those factors contribute. You've got that

underlying bone loss, the soft tissue loss,

and the loss of elastin and collagen in the

skin itself. Yeah.

And again, ain't no one getting away from it. I mean, it's going

to happen to everybody, you know, so what can people do?

Does everybody need a facelift? Well,

it really is a personal decision. Right. So

if you're looking for a dramatic change and

it's. And you're at an age where a facelift makes

sense. So, you know, one of the misconceptions that people have is that

facelift is permanent. It's a permanent solution.

It's not. There's expiration date to

facelifts, too. So many people will have A revision of a

facelift, you know, five to seven to 10 years down

the road, so it's not forever. So you want to ask yourself

if you want to have surgery, will you want it

again in 10 years? And does that make sense for you?

And the surgery is really just lifting and

pulling the skin. It's like, you know, you've washed your sheets, you iron

them and you pull them on the bed, but you haven't fixed the mattress and

you haven't fixed the bed frame. So it's important to keep those

structures in mind. And oftentimes it can be a useful

tool, a procedure to do as an add on if you want to,

while addressing other things. And if you're going to start from the outside in

the skin, the first thing you can address is that collagen loss, that

elastin loss, all the changes that happen in your deeper skin layers,

and that really comes down to regular skin

care. So wearing your sunscreen every day.

Great point. Yeah, that's a great point. So

you have different techniques when it comes to facelifting. Right. So

some of the newer techniques, definitely, definitely. You have

more of a repositioning of some of the soft tissue as well. And some of

the surgeons will do things like fat grafting, but

to your point, if they have better

skin to work with, your results will be much, much better.

So I always say, and whether you're starting Botox

or whether you're doing filler or anything, the best investment you

can make is really good skincare and

prevention when it comes to your skin. And you mentioned sunscreen,

so those are your best investments. And even if you're going to

consider a facelift, doing things to

improve the skin quality will make your results better.

Yeah. And then having said that, not everybody wants

a facelift. Yeah, that's true. And you know,

quit putting your face in the sun. People like.

I, I, it just. Boggles me

though. I mean, we have some wonderful, lovely, lovely, lovely,

lovely patients. I love them dearly. But you know, the ones that you, they grew

up in an era where it was baby oil and iodine for

color, I think. And you know, they laid out in the sun and they

baked themselves and the darker they were, the better. I remember being a kid and

like I'm little, like in the 70s, and seeing those Ben Do

Soleil ads and thinking, I want to be that color, like I'm ever

going to be that color. You know, there's this.

Trauma that their skin has been through where it's literally just

sort of hangs there kind of and has no

life and no vitality. You know, are those people

that we can help or should be helping? I think

so. Like, I, I've seen people with some

of the bio stimulators that we have now that you guys have been doing

pretty exciting times. Really. Yeah. I think

we're seeing a shift in medical aesthetics

where we went to restoring the volume, addressing the structure and the

squid quality. But now we're really focusing on

regeneration, turning back the clock. And

I think we're going to see a whole lot more than that in the years

to come. Yeah. Rather than

just throwing a bunch of filler at it. So sometimes it makes sense if the

mattress is deflated and you need, you need to support the tissue.

But it's great what we can do now. Yeah. And I think it

goes back to understanding the anatomy

and physiology of aging. Right. So you're not going to use one

tool to fix all problems. And yes,

there is a pendulum swing now to use more regenerative things.

And oh, dermal filler is not great. In fact, I saw a reel

today where a plastic surgeon was suggesting that the

worst thing that a person could do in their twenties is to

have even one drop of dermal filler, hyaluronic

acid based filler, on the lateral part of their face. And I

mean, that is hyperbole. And I think we're very quickly

going to see the pendulum swing back. You

know, he was a surgeon and suggesting that surgery was better.

Now, I would argue with that because we just talked about how

surgery's not permanent. Now you're committing that person to repeated

surgeries. And I would argue with that.

So I think similarly we're going to see this pendulum swinging back where

people will have a better understanding of how to use hyaluronic

acid base fillers, be more judicious about it and not

do this overfilling thing or think that you can give people a

facelift or an equivalent with dermal filler. You can't.

But you can surely make people look more rested, more

refreshed, and visually look more

lifted. And that's pretty impactful and

pretty significant. And in many cases, people are

as happy as people who we've had do

facelifts. So it's really an individual thing and

it warrants a discussion with the patient. I think it's

very rare. I can probably count

the number of times I've had a conversation with someone

who has been actually open

to face to a facelift. And I'm not trying to vilify it. I think

there's some amazing surgeons out there that, you know, like, to your point, that

are doing a more of a complete treatment with fat grafting and all of the

likes. But the majority of the people that I talk

to are like, I'm okay. Like, I, I, I don't

wanna, I'm not trying to look like I'm 20.

Right. They just want to feel like more like themselves. And

I think it's the light and shadow and the, and the,

and that's where the magic with dermal fillers can happen for

the right person when the light hits their face

a different way. It's such a subtle change, but it's so impactful.

Yeah, that's who we know.

Wasn't that bought. She was like, she's in her 70s. She's like, I still want

some wrinkles. I want to show the expression that

I've had throughout my life, but I just don't want as much of

that sagginess and drooping. I just want to feel a bit more lifted.

And that speaks to again, the bony changes that

you were talking about. Harpreet and the.

With that will often, in an ideal world, with Magic Wand,

you would use all the different modalities. You probably use a little bit of filler

to, you know, help with the bed frame.

And then you might use some regeneratives to try to help with the

collagen and the quality of the skin. And that gives a little bit of volume

as well. And then you may tweak some muscles that are a little bit stronger

with some Botox. And then, you know, the icing on the

cake would be the skincare options that we have that really do

penetrate much deeper now and have a significant impact on the skin.

Yeah. And I think you summed that up beautifully, Christelle. And

I'm going to go back to Amanda's point about people

who've really had a lot of sun exposure and have

skin that has been challenged over the years.

You know, you asked the question, you know, is it too late? And

I would say it's never, never too late. You know, we have

patients in their 80s, and with the right

skin care and with the right regenerative treatments,

we can make a tremendous change. And then, of course, let's not

forget about our lasers and our technologies, which have been impactful.

And I'd love to hear from you, Crystal, like, how do you approach that

in, with the, with the skin that's been so

effective? Abused. Abused, yeah.

Oftentimes. Lots of fun.

I will start with addressing the skin Quality. And

I'll tell them that what they do at home every day and outdoors is going

to have a bigger impact than any tool that I can offer them in the

clinic. And that.

Number one, they need to start wearing sunscreen and a hat. I have no issues

with people being. Out in the sun. I love the sun. Me too. But I

wear sunscreen every day. I didn't in my twenties because

who did? And I will probably have some sun damage in a couple years

time, but I would start with the sunscreen and the regular

skin care and addressing more the skin

quality because that's where they'll notice the biggest difference. And

once we're on that and we've kind of pre treated the skin,

going back to what you were saying about our lasers or light based therapies can

have a significant impact on addressing the pigmentation

changes that you see. So the dark spots that you might see, also some of

the redness you might see. And depending on

their goals or how aggressive they want their treatment, you may go with something

that's a bit more ablative like a halo which has a bit of downtime

or you may go with something like a broad based broadband light like

your BBL which can target. It's kind of like a jack of all

trades. It can target multiple different pigments in your skin. So

they can be a really good starting point.

When you have that, that skin that has just had a

beating and it brings. It reminds me of a patient that we discussed on this

a few weeks ago. Remember when you two. It wasn't one of mine but

you mentioned that she'd had some. You noticed

volume loss but the more you spoke to her it was actually the

skin quality that was the issue and she ended up doing a BBL halo and

was delighted with her results. So yeah, when Skills has had a beating,

I tend to focus more on the at home skin care

and then maybe adding a life based treatment.

And once we're on top of that, then we can address the other issues because

that tends to have more of an impact than going into the deeper

treatments of the underlying structure. Yeah,

and I'd love to hear from you, Amanda. When you have people who have

that type of skin, what are they often interested in

or what do they usually commit to doing? Because they might not be

used to taking care of their skin and it's a whole, that's a whole nother

story. I'm not, I'm not going to lie. I kind of

use skin care and education to

see how committed they are because I think when it comes to

somebody that has progressive

skin atrophy damage, I don't even know what you want to call it.

You know, obviously, they. It's a lifestyle they've inflicted

on their skin, and you really have to make sure that

they're not thinking we have a magic wand. Because

none of this, I always say, look, anything to do with changing

the. Improving the skin,

it takes time. Like, nothing is fast.

Filler is fast. Yeah, it's. It's. It's immediate. It's.

That's why it's so darn exciting when it's the right tool to use.

Even boat detox is like, ba bam. In a couple of weeks, you can already

see lines are starting to soften. Right? Yeah. And

I. And then I said, oh, you know, this is what we need you to

do. These are the steps. And then come and see me again in six weeks.

And really, at that point, I just sometimes decide if they get to pass,

go and collect $200 and do the next thing.

Right. Because the last thing you want to do is disappoint

somebody. So it's really about understanding kind of what do they

expect to see. And sometimes they're completely reasonable

and they are committed to making that change. And that's my daughter.

Duke, you need to, as Duke is bringing you

kiss our free. What's your approach?

Well, I wanted to touch a little bit on Amanda's point

around. People being

patient or using the skin care and time,

and it takes time. So we have to remember that our skin

is our body's largest organ. Right.

And just like every organ,

there's physiology behind it. It works a certain way.

And anytime we try to make any changes in our skin,

it takes skin cycles for us to actually manifest or see the

change. What I mean by that is our skin isn't inert. It's alive.

And it rejuvenates itself in a cyclical

basis. So we have cells at the bottom of our skin

that sort of create new cells, and they migrate to the top

of the skin, and then they slough off, and that cycle continues.

And when we're younger, that cycle is fairly short. And,

you know, if you're an esthetician or in this industry, you might know it

to be about 21 days. However, we forget that that

cell cycling cycle does lengthen

as we get older, too, so that by the time you're in your 50s,

that cycle might be up to about 90 days. And if

we say that, well, if we put stuff on our skin, it's gonna take three

skin cycles or four skin cycles? You know, when you're 50, you're

talking. It might take a year for you to see a change.

Yeah. So it takes time. So I think people need to

understand that when it comes to skincare, and to the

point about a magic wand, I think that's. That that's quite

true. People often think of things like lasers

as a magic wand, and they think they'll see immediate results

and you'll see faster results. 100%. But any

of our technology is actually stimulating the skin

through heat or through ablation. Right. And

with the halo, I often will say it's kind of like aerating your

lawn. Right. You're punching little holes in the skin and you're creating

a stimulus, and it's the reaction to that

stimulus that creates the change, not the actual

laser. Yeah. Right. So some of our lasers

will target pigment and sort of blow up the pigment. But when we're talking about

collagen induction and some of the regenerative things that our lasers do,

it's literally stimulating your skin. So your commitment to your

skincare never goes to waste. Your commitment to a healthy

lifestyle, healthy nutrition and all those things, good sleep

never goes to waste. And so it will all make your laser

and technology work better. You'll have better effect.

I find that when you're talking about those ablative lasers

that will stimulate that collagen, it'll be really good for

more of those superficial lines and

the skin quality, but maybe not as impactful

on sagginess as other tools that we have.

Yeah. Then we start to get into the bioregenerative

treatments that can give you some volume. And

when I look at skin itself, we already talked about the bone, Right. We get

bone resorption. We already talked about soft tissues. We get soft tissue

resorption, and we can do dermal fillers. But when we look

at the skin, there's a pattern to the skin aging, too.

So the epidermis gets thinner, the dermis gets thinner, it

starts to slip on itself. You get this crepiness that

happens. And we get dyspigmentation within the skin

itself. So those are aspects of the skin that we can change

as well. And we can thicken up the skins using. Using growth

factors, because it does thin. So if you look at

people in their 80s, they so often complain of, you know, I bumped up against

something and I got bruised, and I don't even know how

my skin sloughed off. They'll abrasion super easily

because the skin is thinning. So that thinning aspect of

skin aging we can treat with bioregenerative

treatments like Sculptra. We can use growth factors, we

can use platelet derived growth factors.

We can use prp, retinol and retinol

too. Yeah, good old retinol and sunscreen. Just

wear some damn sunscreen. Oh my God. All I'm saying is, you

know, the whining over, just find one you

like and put it on. It's not that hard.

We see people lucky nowadays with the. Amount of choice we have with sunscreens. Because

that was definitely choices like whether you want a powder

or a liquid or a cream or. But you know, Harpreet can

speak to this. We've had patients that have come through on the, you know, the

skin cancer screening side of things that we've got. Just wearing sunscreen, like

we're talking basic and year after year, just

from adding sunscreen, nothing else, they don't do anything else. Their skin

starts to look better. It makes a huge difference. So

here's the thing with our, with our, any patient, once

they have skin that's been damaged, sometimes they feel pretty

despondent. At least I see that sometimes

they do feel like it's too late and they feel like the sunscreen

is a waste of time because what is that going to do? They feel like

it's only going to prevent future damage and how is it going to

affect them currently? But what I like to explain to them is that

UV radiation is damaging on a daily basis.

And whether it's cloudy and whether it's winter,

the ball of radiation is in the sky.

And so there's visible and non visible radiation that our skin is

exposed to. And every time our cells get hit by that, their

DNA gets damaged slightly. And then it's the job

of our immune system and scavenge ourselves to go

and clean up all that mess. And so we have old

stuff sitting there as well as new damage that comes in every day. And

if you wear sunscreen, what you're doing is you're preventing

new stuff, new damage so that your cells, your

immune system cells can go around and scavenge

what's been done before better they're not distracted by

the new stuff that's going on. And sometimes when I explain that

to them, they, they get a little bit more hopeful and they understand.

And so then when you have that. Commitment to wear the sunscreen every

day, it allows your body to protect itself and to repair

itself and you see it and that's, you know, feels

really good for them. So I try to give them that encouragement.

It does make a difference. Try it out.

Yeah. Amen. I totally agree. You know, it's like

there's a little battle that's going on all the time. Your skin's kind of

trying to protect itself and, you know, you're just putting in

the troops in the very front so that, you know. Yeah.

I gotta think of another analogy that's better.

But back to saggy, because that's what we were talking about. It was. But

I mean, the sunscreen does impact it because it'll

impact the city if it's very sun damaged and it will

sag because if it's lost its elasticity. Anyways, going back to

that patient you wanted to mention. Oh, yeah, I was just. It's. But again,

other than you should all be wearing sunscreen every day, don't even, like, talk to

the hand if you're not going to, like, find a new channel because I'm sorry,

it's just easy. You just got to find a good one and you. Your

skin will thank you for it. But we. It is

still very.

Unique to everybody in terms of how that Sagi kind of comes on.

So we had a patient a couple weeks ago

and she was a bit tricky because she was

70, 71, had done nothing.

And I'm looking at her and I'm thinking, what, like you've done

nothing? Because her cheeks were so darn good. And

so it was interesting that she didn't actually have much

the bed frame. The bone was really well

preserved. I don't know, I guess it's just genetics. Lucky. Right.

And really it was more kind of soft tissue that

needed to be, you know, plumped up in a few areas and

then again, work on the skin. So.

Sagi can look very different for different people. Yeah,

yeah. So various genetic factors. Right. She may

not have had much bone loss, so she's not prone to things like

osteoporosis. She might have a high calcium diet and. And

that type of thing that impacts bone resorption. And then

going back to the structural issues that we sort of talked about last

episode, some people have shorter chins. And when you have

shorter chins, you are going to look saggy and jowly

faster. You'll start

looking sad and then the sadness will turn into sagginess.

Yeah, totally. My family all over.

Yeah. And chins are not something we're

used to looking at unless you're in aesthetics. Right.

And so restoring chin length and

chin structure can be really impactful when we're Trying to prevent

sagi and treat sagging. And the one caveat

I will say there is that when you are an injector

and you're doing chins, make sure your chins are

three dimensional. Oh, yeah, please, yeah.

Oh, I can go to this injector and they're going to put one syringe right

here. Yeah. That looks awesome. Not.

We've seen it, right? Yeah.

It's got to look good from every angle.

There's a lot of sculpture involved in the chin and in the jaw when

you restructure that, especially if there's been a lot of bone resorption

and you're starting from a point where there wasn't that much support in the first

place. And then

you still have to look like you. I was thinking we

have a patient that she's lovely, she's, I

think she's got to be pushing 70 now, but a very kind of heart

shaped face. And she's tricky.

Right. Because you have to maintain like you're not going to give her a big,

wide, feral chin, you know, so you,

you can improve it, but you have to always be thinking about, well, what do

they look like? Like 10 years ago. Right.

So chins. I could talk about chins all day long. I could

wag my chin. About to do an episode on that. Yeah.

If you want to hear more about. Chin, maybe send us an email or

write a comment down below and we'll make sure we'll get some stories for

you about chins and factors that we consider before we

wrap up today. Is there any advice that you'd give your, your 30 year

old self if you could speak to your 30 year old self?

Oh God, don't go out with that guy.

Do not skin chips.

Oh. That'S another

podcast. That was my 20 year old self. I guess I married the 30

year old, the one I now worked out. Okay, but

30. Oh. Get

Botox sooner, Kat

Harvey. That's what I would have said. Uh,

yeah. I started Botox when I was in my 30s. Cause I started

doing botox when it first came out like for other people.

But I think being more diligent about sunscreen,

oddly enough because there weren't that many options for people who were

highly melanated like myself, so things would

turn me blue. Right. So but finding a good sunscreen, that would be

one for sure.

And the other one, and I feel like this is another show is

learn about lasers and people who

do have pigment like myself. Not all

lasers are the same. And I can tell

you a story. About an IPL burn that I had on myself and how

my interest in laser start and so started. So,

yeah, I would say don't do the ipl. That would be my other

advice, I think. Unless you're me, and then

you can light me up. Yeah, you're me. That's just to

me. But if you've had melasma, you probably don't want to be. You want

to be careful, too. I think lasers is in a whole episode in itself.

So we've got chin and lasers. Maybe we'll take

a vote as to what you would like to hear us talk about

first. And for me, I think it would be sunscreen as well. I

was the one who had the sunscreen in her foundation because, well, I never burn

and sure, it'll be fine. And

I have pigmentation because I was in Ireland. All on my driving side

because we drive on the other side of the road. And

again, there weren't that many good options. They all I have. You know,

I'd be on the oilier side, and they just made that a whole lot worse.

And, you know, when you're battling shyness, that's not what you want. And. But I'm

happy to say that there are so many really, really good options that we have

nowadays. Yeah. That weren't really available 10 years ago.

So, on that note, I hope you enjoyed today's episode.

And next time, we'll be potentially talking about

your aging Achilles hill, unless there's a huge push for us to talk

about either lasers or your chin.

And if you're feeling saggy, come on down, give us a call. Bye

for now. Until next

time.