What are the challenges facing young professionals in corporate security right now?

That's the question we're putting to this weeks guest and young professional, Leo Kelly.

Like the rest of us, the current generation of young professionals are trying to establish themselves in a competitive industry and just want the opportunity to shine and show what they can do.

But are you ready to entrust the inner workings of your security operation to a Gen Z or Millennial? And, rather than micromanage or utilise as a kind of work experience candidate, are the current crop of security managers ready to give responsibility and handover accountability of their projects to enthusiastic, yet inexperienced young professionals?

More about the Circuit:

The Circuit Magazine is written and produced by volunteers, most of who are operationally active, working full time in the security industry. The magazine is a product of their combined passion and desire to give something back to the industry. By subscribing to the magazine you are helping to keep it going into the future. Find out more >

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The Circuit team is:

• Elijah Shaw
• Jon Moss
• Shaun West
• Phelim Rowe

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it's about giving the next generation the right confidence

and leadership skills and drive to, to achieve what, the top leaders

in the security industry have done and what they're continuing to do.

Young, professional success in corporate security.

To date, John Moss and myself are delighted

to be interviewing Leo Kelly, who as a young, professional next generation.

In the London scene has recently taken a career break to reassess things.

Um, John, we were all

young once, and arguably we still are young.

Why are we doing a session on YPs today?

Well, the biggest aim and goal for me in this is not

to feel old and like a dinosaur.

Assuming I can get through that.

Okay.

Then I, I think it's really essential that

we keep

touch with, the young professionals

who are coming into the industry.

We have to accept, you know, they're

a different generation.

There's, uh, different things that have influenced them to come into the industry.

Different drivers, and, they have different needs to some part as well.

And so this is the future of the security industry and.

It's not like passing the button on, and we retire and they take over.

There is a natural transition and integration and we will be working

alongside, these young professionals.

And so it's just as important for us to understand them, them,

and make ourselves accessible to ensure the success of the mission

and the industry in the long.

Absolutely, cuz there's, there's always gonna be some sort

of stereotypes or prejudices.

Oh, young people are dot, dot, do.

And just as people say, oh, older people are dot, dot, dot, and, and

today, you know, people talking about the great resignation, we we're talking

about Gen Z in a particular different way than, uh, maybe millennials.

Such Gen X.

And I mean, it's, it's, it's always gonna be.

But then a security manager has to think, right, I'll rise above it.

How do I integrate them into my team?

How do I create success?

How do I make sure that we can get the most out of each and every, uh,

person, which is, you know, why, why?

We're very pleased to have Leo on obviously Leo, uh, very active in the

UK as a S asis, um, young professionals seen.

And actually he's come from a, a slightly different background.

He did a masters

in, uh, risk.

And he did not come from the police or the military, which I think

has been a recurring theme of some of the podcasts, hasn't it, John?

The, uh, non-traditional career path and, and actually

coming with some academic credentials first.

That's, that, that's more popular these days, isn't

it?

Yeah, absolutely.

And you spoke about, , the non-traditional, uh, but actually, I

think, it is becoming more commonplace to see this entry point into the industry.

You know, a lot of people who will be listening to this might

have come into the industry.

As a result of the big

expansion that we've seen in the last 20 years.

And, the entry point for them will be

very different, so I think it's really

interesting to have

Leo on and to hear

The experience of somebody coming into the industry

from this academic route and, choosing a career path rather than just

falling into it, that makes sense.

Yeah, it does.

It does.

And, and you know, Many people fall into it, many people gravitate towards it.

But you know, the professionalization

of security is a testament to people choosing it, seeking it out, um,

which is, which is rather nice.

And, and, and after all, we've talked a lot about people's eventual career paths

as risk managers.

Well, hey, masters

in risk management to start with, that is a good precedent.

Um,

I'm sure many people in the UK already know Leo, but it's

nice to introduce him and the

YP question to our wider

EP audience.

Let's get into it and look at corporate

security success as a young, professional next generation,

individual with Leo Kelly.

young professional success in corporate security today we are delighted to be

joined by Leo Kelly, a young professional from the corporate security scene.

Now on a little career break, John Moss and myself, really pleased to have you on.

How are you doing, Leo

Right.

Well, thank you.

Thank you for having me.

It's great to be here.

Yeah, thank.

Well, well, it's great.

It's great for you to join, especially in the middle of your, uh, career break,

and I think this is a great time to get a snapshot for the older generation about

what the younger generation is, uh, going through is needing how to inter integrate

with them, how to communicate with them, but equally for the younger crowd.

A lot of the different voices and perspectives that corporate and executive

security are going through right now.

So what is the problem that we are trying to solve or you are trying to

solve with, uh, young professionals in corporate security right now?

That's a great question.

I think trying to avoid ageism as much as possible and giving, giving in

professionals as as many opportunities as possible, which the security

industry I think is good for, but more, more broadly in the world of work.

I think lots of young professionals.

Just appreciate the opportunity and the opportunity to shine, um,

while they're growing their career.

And, uh, for so many young people like myself, uh, we'd love to have a

manager who will put us first, give us responsibility to get on with

tasks and take ownership for these, rather than be micromanaged or kind of

like as a work experience candidate.

Someone who is just there in the shadows and, and makes things look pretty, but

to be given responsibility and to take accountability for their projects,

Mm.

I think we could all appreciate that.

Uh, cuz we've all been, we've all been there at some stage.

Um, and, and, and what about you?

Where does your passion for security, um, and, and now being a yp, uh, come from?

I think it all comes down to protecting and helping people.

So, Something I've been reflecting on in the last few months that I've

had off away from the industry for a few months is if everything is going

smoothly and everything is going well, there's no real major hiccups.

And that's, that's the success.

Um, and that's that sort of piece and keeping the piece is, is important to

me and that's what the security industry does so well, uh, that reassurance and.

And protection of, of people to help them, uh, their assets, wellbeing, et cetera.

Okay.

And then, I mean, usually I'd say, what about the uninitiated?

But as I sort of alluded, we were all younger ones.

Um, what about the, uh, older generation that may have forgotten?

What it is like, uh, to be, uh, younger and maybe the younger

generation not yet in, uh, security.

What, what should they better understand about this yp?

And I think ACEs now calls it next gen, uh, sort of Carter of colleagues.

Sure.

Um, I think it's, it's interesting because we're all, I think we're

all, we're all pretty similar.

We're all, we're all human beings here.

The the next gen.

I think is a, is a good way of now reframing the, the cohort of young

professionals because it's about giving the next generation the right confidence

and leadership skills and drive to, to achieve what, what the, the top

leaders in the security industry have done and what they're continuing to do.

So.

I think at the end of the day, we're all pretty similar and the, the,

the leadership has been in our, in the young professional shoes.

It's just about growing that and giving them enough support to be

able to achieve like they have.

so I, I just kind of wanna start with some really basic things to set the

scene, uh, to get a bit of a background , so first of all, I think soon as we're

talking about young professionals, it will be good to know how old you are.

Sure.

So I'm 26 at the moment.

So not quite still in diapers.

I

No

you know, you have a certain amount of life experience behind you.

And so what I wanted to know was, what attracted you to the security industry?

I mean, was it a conscious decision?

Did you just find yourself in this career path?

As many of us do, I think a lot of listeners, will appreciate that even

those who were in the military, and police won't necessarily have known

that a career in the security industry is, what, lay ahead for them.

So yeah.

why were you drawn to the security industry?

So I think it comes back to the protection of people and helping people.

That's, that's the crux of it.

Uh, that's the, the main satisfaction I would say from, from working in industry.

Um, if, if I was to break it down a little bit more, uh, I did a Masters in

risk and focused on counter-terrorism.

And through that I developed my, my interest and my passion

for the security industry.

And I did a lot of research on protecting educational establishments

from, from terrorism, and then the measures they put in.

And that was, I said, the gateway, uh, in my master's dissertation

maybe five years ago now as to how I, how I started in the industry and.

And then things developed and I met a lot of amazing people who helped me out and,

and one thing led to another and then I had, yeah, then had four, four and a bit

amazing years so far, uh, in the industry.

And hopefully that continues, uh, from the new year onwards.

Yeah, absolutely.

And, you know, growing up in this world, uh, in this time

with everything that's going on?

What was it that influenced that decision to take a master's in risk

management and counter-terrorism?

Yeah, that's, that's such a great question.

I grew up in an era where we had nine 11 when I was six, and then

we had seven, seven attacks in London in when I was, uh, nine.

So throughout my childhood, I felt like terrorism on a very big international.

Scary scale and was very prevalent in my, in my childhood, particularly

having grown up in London during the seven seven tax and being

there with my family at the time.

And then these things carried on and it was always something

that I was really interested in.

And then throughout my undergraduate, I wrote a lot about terrorism and

read up a lot about cast terrorism.

I said the passion, I think stem from childhood in terms of how

can we protect these things?

How can we protect people from these disastrous events happen?

And mitigating 'em as best as we can.

And then that sort of develops many, many, over, many, many years into,

into my desire to join the security industry to do something about it.

Perhaps

Mm.

And, uh, you know, certainly if there was any doubt that you qualify as a young

professional, that certainly put it into perspective to hear that you were to hear

that you were six at the time of nine 11.

I, I remember myself, I, I was actually God commander.

I was still in the, and I was God commander on that very day.

and yeah, so can imagine,

you?

So you've certainly grown up at a time when there's been.

So much going on in, terms of, geopolitics and, the terrorism

threats that we've all lived with in these latter years.

But for you, it's been your life.

And I think from the perspective of somebody who's been in the industry

slightly longer, and especially come from a military background, that in

informed a lot of, um, you know, my decision making and, and reasoning for.

In this industry.

on one hand it could seem strange that, young people have gravitated to the

industry, through these influences.

But I think hearing it in your own words, it, it kind of makes sense and.

It's certainly an impressive thing to hear that, we have, young people

of your caliber who are coming into the industry with, with a real

purpose and want to make a change.

And, uh, you know, with that said, what is it that you see, I know

it's early days, but where do you see your career trajectory?

Where do you see yourself going and, and what is it that you want to.

That's another great question.

I'd say I'd love to one day be with a lot of hard work to be maybe a chief

chief risk officer or a potentially chief security officer, depending

on which avenue my career goes down.

And then as time goes on, Maybe, uh, like a non-executive board

director, something like that.

But this is maybe 30 years away.

Um, in the meantime, um, just continue to, to work hard and, um,

I'm sure my passions in security and risk management, operational

resilience will, will carry on.

Um, and.

Yeah, I think, um, I'd also love to work abroad and this experience of

being abroad for near six months now in Latin America has taught me that

there's so much great opportunity in London, which I have missed, but it's

also been great to experience different cultures and I like to do this again

as well at some point in my life.

Yeah, I'm sure you'll, return a lot richer for those experiences.

And, speaking of experience, as we mentioned, you came into this

through an academic route and, you know, not coming through, uh,

Military or police, type background.

And what do you think you gained by coming at it through an academic

route and maybe not having the institutional influences of coming

through a more military root?

yeah, that's another great question.

I'd say the.

The disadvantage of not coming through a, a police or a military route like

so many people in the industry have is understanding and being aware of

that very real sense of risk that you would feel in those environments.

Whether you are trying to arrest someone or you are running an exercise or you're

camping in the rain for nine days.

Like those kind of things you don't really get in academia, um, or those kind of

real threat of risk of how to manage that.

And a high pressure that that's,

and breed.

Glass and breed doesn't count then

yeah, Um, but then the advantage of the more academic

sides to have come from, I would argue it does give you a better

understanding of some of the concepts.

For security, how to communicate present.

I'm sure these things are learned in the, in the place of , but for me,

there's personally, those are skills for me that were hond a lot as well,

uh, from, from the academic side.

So if you, if you think about security and risk management as a

business enabler and more broadly, Fitting in with the organization?

I think so, so many of those skills and the soft skills you get from the academic

side, um, I personally learned a lot there that can, that helped me in my career.

And, uh, I know it's early days, but at, at this stage, what are

the challenges that you've identified?

What, where do you see the, uh, the potential speed bumps at Lay ahead and,

and what are you doing to counter those?

I, if indeed there are any, uh,

Okay.

So I think speaking to people who have had many thirties experience is, is

becoming stale in a job perhaps, and knowing when to move on, knowing when

to quit, um, and there are obviously so many great opportunities and

staying fresh and enjoying yourself in those opportunities, I think.

I think is a, is often a hard decision to make in terms of

how much have I got out of this?

And I often feel like leaving at the right time when, when things are

still relatively good, um, is, is an important decision because if you

drag it out and if you like, really get too comfortable in a role, um,

I think that's in some ways a risk.

Um, I would argue that a good dancer always knows when to leave the stage.

If you get staged long, it's gonna, it's gonna fizzle.

No matter how good you are.

Um, so that, that's a speed bump potentially that you

could, I could see in the road.

Um, another speed bump for that matter is not having the right role

at all and being, um, unsatisfied.

And, um, yeah.

So those are the two things I'd say.

Yeah, I, I think these are really relevant.

I think it's great that you've identified them so early on, but then maybe that

that's not the biggest challenge.

Perhaps it's avoiding them, because for sure, these are two

big things that really do it exist within the security industry and.

You don't have to look far to see people who are, suffering with both of

those challenges and don't necessarily know where to turn or, perhaps have

lost the confidence and the, um, maneuverability within their careers,

or at least as they perceive it.

So I think these are really important things to think about early on.

I certainly applaud you for, uh, I identifying those so, given that you

have these fantastic insights already, what, would your message be to any other

young or aspiring, uh, professionals, you know, perhaps who aren't certain about,

uh, career in the security industry?

What would your message to those be for why they should give it to consideration?

I think the skills industry from my experience in London is Incre

England more broadly is so welcoming and so there's, I found that the

industry has always been incredibly accommodated for whoever you are and.

To that end it, I've always found it so easy and natural to, to

make friends in the industry.

I feel like it's the only one I've I've ever worked in, but I can

imagine a lot more industries are, are unfriendly and there's a bit

more bravada about it, which I don't feel exists in the security industry.

I feel like everyone is incredibly honest and says it how it is, which

you think is really important.

Um, and that is an attractive quality of the industry and why a

young professionals should work.

I also think, going back to my earlier point around why do I work in there,

in the security industry, it's, it's down to helping people protect people.

And if that's for you, then, then I'd highly recommend it.

Um, yeah.

What, what are your thoughts on that?

I would say that my experience might be slightly

different, but that could be.

More to do with our respective backgrounds and the, and the roots in

which we've come into the industry.

Also, you know, you're, you are entering the security industry,

from a very different, um, point of entry than that, which I did.

I, I still find that a lot of my colleagues and the environments

and the method of operation.

It's still very quasi-military.

It's that attitude of, you know, why throw out something that works for you.

And when I came into the industry as, as a lot of my peers did, it was as a

reaction to nine 11 and it created an opportunity and there was a huge demand.

And whenever you get those types of situations, uh, people flood

in and there isn't necessarily the structure, uh, and, so you have

to start to make that yourself.

You have to create the, the environment and the, the right

set of operating conditions.

And so naturally, if you are coming from the military and you have, you know,

very formulaic ways of doing things, then you will bring those in with you.

And so, yeah, so I, I think my transition and experience is, is, um, it, it

dilutes over time and you start to feel like, this has its own personality.

This has its own identity, but very much built on those foundations.

So, for me, listening to you speak now, it's really an education and

it's eyeopening as well to realize that there are other roots and other,

practices and ways in which, you know, you can operate in this industry.

Yeah.

Does that make sense?

it does.

Yeah.

It, I have always felt like a bit of an outlier to some extent in the industry

having not come from operational security or police or the military background.

Um, but it's, it's always been a positive.

Um, it's not, it's not held me back.

It's just been a different angle of approach.

Yeah.

I could see that for sure.

There are some burdens that come with that as well.

And I think being able to come in with fresh eyes and you will see

things that other people might miss.

You know, conversely, yeah.

You know, you don't have a lot of the experience, but you're coming

into an industry where that exists and like you say, your experience

has been, a very friendly security industry, people who want to help you.

And so, having all of that experience around you, and if you are receptive

to it, then you can only grow with us.

So I think you're adopting a fantastic model and building a great

career path in these early days.

Thank you.

So, so now that we've come, you know, gotten to know

you as, as an audience, of course.

You know, I, I, I've known you for a while.

It, it might be nice and, and admittedly this is under the theme of young

professionals, you know, how, how to appreciate them, how, how to, how

to think where they're coming from.

Um, your, your own background recently in the recent years has been note.

And I mention that because where you'd last worked, um, you did have to take

on lots of extra responsibilities, which, you know, sometimes people might

shirk and sometimes in your case, very, very luckily, you seem to have thrived.

Um, um, what, what can you speak to that and that period?

What can you tell us, you know, what would you like to share?

You know, personal anecdotes as well.

But, but, but, but also, I.

Was it easy to, to take on those responsibilities?

Was it, was it, was it a choice even, or, or was it conscious?

Well, that's a great question.

I'd say.

It wasn't just, it definitely wasn't easy.

Um, for context, my previous manager passed away and there was, there

was then a big hole in, in the team who, he had five different,

um, direct reports essentially.

And so there was a lot of stepping up that had to be done amongst the team.

And it was definitely a team effort.

It definitely wasn't all me.

There were a lot of gaps, which I stepped up into, but it

ended up being a very sad time.

However, over the months following his death, there was, there was, it

was a great development opportunity in terms of, I learned a lot at the

time and dealing with things, uh, in uncertain times and, and adverse times.

It makes you grow.

And then a few months after his death came in the pandemic, so everything

felt like it was on full, full blast in terms of, uh, growing and workloads.

Um, so it, it was, it was a weird time, but it was one I wouldn't, I

mean, yeah, it was, it was a weird time and I wish he was still around.

Of course, um, Mr.

Clark.

I'm sure if he was listening to this, he'd be happy, um, that we're doing

this as he was passionate about asis and the development of young professionals.

And he was, uh, he was a great man for, for those reasons and many others.

Um, so yeah, it was, it was a very sad time, but that you learn to adapt

and change in those circumstances.

And so would you recommend other people attempt to seek out

extra responsibilities in areas that they're not comfortable with?

I, I, I, I enjoyed, sorry.

I enjoyed the strong word.

I benefited from having to do the finance side of, uh, uh, work.

Um, that, that, that's been a very useful string to my bow.

Yeah.

Even though it's not my background, would, would you

recommend seeking out more things like.

I think so, but only to, to a, to a degree.

I think there's, there's things like doing your accounts or, or,

or learning a different wing of the security industry that you

might not feel so comfortable with.

I think that's good to, to dip into, but if it really doesn't make you happy and

you're not really enjoying it, I feel like there's a, there's a point of no return.

So I think, yeah, try and look some basic, look, some basic

skills in that area and be open to.

Don't, don't take away everything that you enjoy about your role by, by

committing to that, which is, is very easy to do, to get lost in, in an area

which you're not so passionate about, but is really useful and helpful.

So trying to balance it with things you enjoy.

Cause I think that's the most important thing with work and security industry.

If you're not enjoying it, you're not happy, then, then

you need to reconsider it.

I think.

This is often seen as the trade off between, uh, career

development and enjoyment of the role.

And I don't think it needs to be, at the sacrifice of one or the other.

Though it often is.

And often we do it more willingly than I think we realize, and

yeah, that's quite a trade off.

And it's really great point that you've highlighted.

And I think anyone, no matter where they are, Sat in their career listening

to this today, could do well to remind themselves of that, that the

job can still be one that you enjoy, as well as having progression in it.

Yeah, that's the ideal sit spot.

Yeah.

And, and Leo, you seem to have mastered, and I hope you don't mind

me saying this, you seem to have mastered the art of, I suppose, being a little

bit more humble than people are used to expecting, uh, young professionals to be.

I say this with the wonderful, uh, preconception that, uh, all, uh,

fresh, uh, faced professionals are, you know, headed to be the CSO tomorrow.

And, you know, there is, there is that kind of.

Uh, attitude that some in the industry sort of believe exists.

Um, I don't know if it does.

I know that perhaps I was a little bit guilty of it at the beginning.

Um, uh, and I, and I, this is sort of like a question dash compliment, right?

I'm complimenting you and, and, and saying that you've mastered

the art of being a bit more humble.

Um, but, but, but, but what would your advice be to, let's say 21

year old, uh, security professional?

Who's basically chomping at the bit and going, you don't understand.

I am CSO material.

be the CSO today.

Um, I mean, what, how can, how can we curb their enthusiasm but not,

not, not extinguish their person?

I mean, if someone's saying that, I would say prove it.

Like, prove you can do, prove it.

Prove you can do that

But you just gimme a chance.

chance and I'll lead the entire organization tomorrow.

never done anything in my life, but you I exaggerate.

I mean, I, I admire their confidence, um, that

that's just not realistic even for someone of that age, unless.

Unless they, they started when they were 14 and there's some sort

of super kids, um, it's unlikely.

But if someone is really saying that, I, I feel like you should

give them a, um, the benefit of the doubt to the extent, but don't, not,

don't believe everything you hear.

Um, um, you often hear and read CVS that.

Like top class professional or like, uh, interesting adjectives

to describe themselves.

And you kind of need to look a bit through the layers of that and understand like

what, what metrics have you achieved to, to determine those, those adjectives.

And I think people are entitled to say that, but if you aren't

gonna say that, back that up with.

Some quantitative proof that you are, or some experience to demonstrate that.

Uh, and, and I think selling yourself and putting yourself out there,

marketing is, is so important.

Uh, but just having the, the, the meat on the bones as well to, to, to demonstrate

that is, is even more important.

And, and that meat on the bone, maybe you can achieve with tenure.

And I know before you, you spoke about don't get stale, right?

Don't stagnate.

Yeah.

But there seems to be, and this happened to me in the great

crash of, uh, oh 7, 0 8, um, I, I was coming up against people who

were scared for their jobs because of the economic environment and.

I had to really pitch my inclusion in the organization very carefully,

and I was not very careful.

Uh, so I learned how to be a bit more careful.

I'm I'm, I'm being, uh, you know, nebulous on purpose.

How can we balance that?

So, is tenure important?

Is tenure relevant?

And if it is, how can we, without being stale and tenured, how can we balance?

Tenured with skills and fresh enthusiasm and.

That, that is the, the perfect combination.

I, I found so far that learning, taking courses, networking,

meeting people is, is.

For me, that, that thing that keeps me, um, excited and motivated, I

think that's, that's really important.

Um, and looking back on the best times in my career journey so far,

they were at, at an ASA seminar or, um, a Crisis 24 webinar or.

Um, uh, one of fill in rose's, uh, securitization or modernization events.

So , the, are, the, are these things you can, that's, that's for me,

uh, as a, as a social person and someone who enjoys networking and

learning from others, that's, that's where the, the real phone comes.

Um, but that might be only two or three hours in a week, uh, where

you're working hard and, um, Looking at different documentation and it

being very analytical, which is also enjoy, enjoyable and interesting.

Um, so it, it's a balance, but I think keeping that balance is really important

and not being changed your desk for 40 hours a week or more and, and getting

out there and meeting people is, uh, that that's what brings it all together.

I.

And, and as long as I suppose you approach it with,

with, with that perspective and, and with good, good heart, you

know, good, good, good motivations.

I think people will maybe not, not actually question age, they'll be like,

mm, yes, Leo is X or, or Y and Z and, um, and, and he'll fit into the, the team.

But, but again, I, I'm, I'm thinking listeners, you know,

some, let's say they're in their forties and they're struggling.

And then they're like, wow, there's a bit of a bottleneck, isn't there?

Because I've got, I've got competition from people who are fresh outta college,

people in their thirties, people in their sixties, people in their nineties, okay.

Maybe not nineties, but you know, like, um, I, I think, yeah, if we could solve

that on this podcast, we'd be rich.

Okay.

Um, but, but I, but I throw it out there because I know that

some listeners are thinking, hang.

I have an issue, uh, too, I have, uh, stumbled in my career.

Maybe I've, uh, hit a, a block or something like that.

Um, so maybe then let's, let's ask a more productive question.

So re regardless of age, how can we create a team of security

operators or security professionals where we are not questioning age?

How, how, how would you advocate for that?

I know you're not in charge of massive teams, but if you were

to get them in a room and say, look, this would really help.

Um, uh, you know, so, so no one goes, oh, young Leo, or, or, or something like that.

How, how, how can we just have a team of, of different, uh, tenure.

Yeah.

Changing that narrative I think is, would be really important.

I.

I think it's about being consistent over, over a, a year, two years more.

Because once, once you are consistent after that period of time, you do have

to put the ground market, of course, like anyone's, like any job at any new age.

But once you put that in, I think, I think they can come that, that

sense of respect and, and that's really important for a professional,

especially when they're starting out.

So just, just being consistent and polite.

I think that goes a long way, um, because they'll soon realize that you, you're

just as capable despite not being quite safe, experienced, but your brain is still

as as good if all, uh, better than some.

So, and you can bring fresh and new ideas.

So there's, there's lots of positives that can be, can draw

from a NextGen professional.

I'd encourage lots of people to, to believe,

But why are, and here's the prejudice, some of your

year group, some of your age group engaging in the great resignation.

Now that's a loaded question because, because, because maybe they're

not, maybe they're actually not.

Yeah, I think something I've learnt, particularly having

taken some time away from the working world is throughout Covid we

were told to follow so many rules.

You, you have to be in bed at this time, you can't go out.

Um, and everyone, particularly in the younger generation felt so stifled and

I'm sure so many people in the world did.

And I think there was this great sense that, well, we had to follow

all these rules in society for so.

And a lot of people say it's up a lot of money in that time, so

now I wanna enjoy myself cause I dunno how long this is gonna last.

Like a lot of people lost relatives in Covid and friends and, and

there's, I think Covid gave people a long time to reflect on their

lives and what was important to them and what made them happy.

So in that time, so many people have thought, right, once this is over,

like I really wanna enjoy my life.

And that's not to say work can't enjoy that, but I think the last two or two,

two years demonstrated, two or three years now demonstrated how much we were, it

was almost like all hands on deck to, to get us through covid and now it's over.

My contemporaries have started this great race nation.

Uh, I think that's slowing down from what I hear now.

This is more start of this year back, end of last year where this really took off.

But um, yeah, I think that's the reason behind that.

What do you think, Phillip?

What do I think?

Well, I think you are right.

I think people have gone, hang on.

I am investing in the future.

However, in the future, can I enjoy my investment?

Maybe I want to enjoy it now.

Um, you know, why am I investing to retire at, on paper 67, 70, 72?

Depends on your age when I can go traveling around Latin America right now.

You know, cuz if, you know, hey, I would love to be as healthy at

72 as I am now and, and be able to really enjoy, uh, the Amazon jungle.

Love it, right?

However, probably not.

Uh, gonna be quite the same.

Um, so, so I think that's literally what's what's happened.

Um, also, a lot of people have thought, um, you know, Sticking a role for five

years minimum, because otherwise it looks like a squiggly career path.

I think people have gone, well, actually no, , that's not, that's not true.

Um, and, uh, and, and I, and I can, um, uh, progress by hopping

and gaining extra experiences.

Um, and I, and I can, uh, go on a sabbatical to Latin America like

yourself and, uh, um, And, and, and, and find more about myself.

Um, now, now whether or not, and, and this has been the age old

problem on backpackers and, and gapa, uh, and, and all of that, right?

When you come back and everyone's like, oh, nice.

You know, you, you, you think, you think you've got skills to bring

to the table, um, and you do.

Uh, but everyone else is slightly jealous.

Um, so, so, so that, that's the only thing I can envisage being a bit of

an issue, um, for, for people on.

The Great Lie down or the great resignation.

Um, but on that, on a personal note, cuz obviously we've done a lot of

thematic questions for this interview.

What have you been learning, um, on your, you abroad that you, not you abroad,

but you know, uh, time, time away, that, that you think will help you in the

security industry when you come back?

or, that's, that's another great question.

I think I've met so many people from.

So many different backgrounds and, um, income levels, et cetera, and just

always having, uh, a kind approach to things and being empathetic.

We've met so many amazing people across Latin America, um, which is very

different to the busy leveled environment and some of the characters you might.

Meet there in what is a very, can be a very competitive and fast paced place.

Um, so getting some perspective on that and realizing some of the

things that were happening in London and in the security industry or, or

generally, uh, and getting some distance from that has been quite healthy.

Um, so just coming in with fresh eyes, um, again in the new year

will be, will be a nice experience and one I'm looking forward to.

I'd say

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And, and, and, uh, you know, maybe, maybe you'll, you'll get a role where

you have to travel to Latin America and they'll be like, Hey, who's,

who's been, uh, to Buenos Cyrus?

Ah, me.

I don't know if you have, I'm not saying half, but you know.

Oh, you have?

Okay.

Brilliant.

There you go.

. Um,

I think also my Spanish has come to a level where someone

said to me the other day I was fluent, so Oh, that thing I'd like to be

the table one day potentially is, is Spanish speaking in, in my job.

Uh, that would be, that would be fun.

So just, just having like a more global understanding of how the world

works and, and the way we interact.

Um, I've also also have regular calls into the UK and just understanding

how connected we are as well.

And to, to some extent I feel closer than ever to some of.

Contacts, um, despite the, the long distance.

So, uh, and I think Covid taught us that as well.

But, uh, having like felt it with the physical distance from Brazil where I

am now to, to London where most of my contacts are, it's, uh, it's all possible.

And that's, and that's really nice.

And hey, this, this interview is testament to that.

Um, so through the, through the, through the power of, uh, the

internet, uh, we, we, we, we are chatting to you in, in, uh, Brazil.

Right.

So what's next for you?

What, uh, what should people watch out for?

Uh, how can they get in touch if they want to, uh, learn more

from an, from a YP or NextGen?

Uh, or, uh, if, if, if they want to in integrate a NextGen colleague into their

team, how can they reach out to you?

So I maintain very responsive.

So just Leo Kelly is my name and or via email, Kelly Leo 5 62 gmail.com.

Very, uh, responsive there.

Uh, are happy to, to talk and.

Um, I always love networking in security industries, so I'm always happy to

have a call or meet up and to chat.

And what I'd say is any aspiring leader to bring in a, an NextGen professional

is, is, uh, please consider it.

And, um, uh, often it's, uh, cheaper because, uh, there's less, less, uh,

weight of expectation on experience and.

But there's also a lot of things that the industry can learn from young

professionals and, uh, what current trends are and, um, the state of play and

people in their twenties and thirties.

So, uh, yeah, I'd urge all hiring managers to consider young professionals

in their decision making processes.

Bargain.

Yeah.

. Great.

Um, well, well, Leo, thanks for joining us.

Uh, on, on your, on.

And I'm looking forward to seeing you back in London very soon.

Um, but, uh, but yeah, this is, this is a nice look.

Um, a slight departure.

You know, we've looked at so many topics on the podcast.

We've looked at, uh, you know, transitioning from the military.

We've looked at, uh, professional driving, uh, protection.

Um, we've had.

A look recently, even at industrial psychology, uh,

under the skin of your team.

Um, uh, so, so, so yes, why not YP NextGen as a topic, um, as we

increasingly have a, have a, have a wider listenership for the podcast.

Um, so from John and myself, thank you Leo.

This has been another fantastic edition of the Circuit Magazine podcast.

Well, thank you very much, Leo, and, uh, great to hear from you.

Obviously you've been a fixture on the UK circuit, but now great to bring you

to the attention of the international community, uh, young professionals.

Obviously, I, I joke all the time.

We, we were all young once, however, we might sometimes forget about

the challenges and opportunities that we can have from, uh,

engaging with the next cohort.

Uh, John, what, what did you make of today's?

Yeah, that's great.

I mean, you know, Leo is a young man.

He is confident, he's humble.

He seems to have his.

Head screwed on very well and has a, a really great grasp of the industry.

You know, he, he's picked up on the flavor for it, but at the same time,

you know, he hasn't, he, he hasn't been overall by anything and he very much

knows what he wants to get out of it.

I think, you know, it's really commendable.

Which, which I think it dispels some of the

myths that each generation have.

The next generation.

Oh, the next generation is, uh, lazy.

The next generation is overconfident, uh, that the next generation

thinks they know everything.

And I, I think, no, that's, that's not necessarily true.

And, and absolutely Leo is towing, uh, the right line.

We mentioned.

Of course, Leo stepped up to the plate, uh, with his team, uh, after the very

surpassing of Dave Clark who was, uh, the chair for the UK ASIS chapter.

And, and actually that, that shines a light on whether or not we should all step

up to the plate anyway, to gain experience of, of, of a wider range of, uh, sectors.

Um, obviously we, we keep on talking about the protector of tomorrow.

Um, you know, learning about cyber, not becoming a hacker about finance,

but not becoming an accountant.

Um, do, do you think there's a good, uh, narrative for audience there?

Yeah, for sure.

I mean, look, you know, opportunities will come along and they'll come along

in many different ways in your career, you know, and it's as, sad that the.

Of an instance that this was, that gave Leo that opportunity for growth.

it's all about how you respond when these moments happen, and you really have to,

uh, grasp the opportunity and run with it, as Leo really seems to have done

and he will benefit from this in the long run, this will be a great foundation

for the rest of his security career.

Absolutely.

And, you know, hopefully we'll get to, uh, we'll get to follow his, uh, his path.

Uh, but yes, if you are a young professional and you don't feel

heard, we, we want to hear from you.

Uh, if you are a, a small, seasoned professional and you, you, you

want to think about gelling with different generations in

the one team, absolutely that.

That is, that is some, uh, something we probably want

to cover in a future episode.

Um, but John, what else have we got coming up?

Uh, maybe with the magazine, the app, uh, the podcast?

What, what do we want people to know about.

Well, you know, Paul, we put out lots of content across

lots of different channels and everyone, listening to these words now

certainly engage with us through the.

But I, I wonder how many people, who are listening to

this also read the newsletter.

So, for anyone who doesn't know the circuit also produces a weekly

newsletter called On the Circuit.

And, I would really implore anyone who.

Doesn't subscribe to it already to do.

So, it's completely free and what it does is each week it focuses on

the events of the week, what's been going on in the security industry.

We, uh, infuse that with circuit content.

So some articles, from the magazine, uh, along with, uh, referencing the podcast.

Make readers aware of new and upcoming, events, to add to your calendar.

And what it does is it just closes the week out really nicely.

It comes out rather uniquely on a Saturday.

So it's not getting clogged up in your mailbox with anything else.

You've got the whole weekend, to sit back and enjoy it either in

one go, you know, or in chunks.

But yeah, so if, if you either aren't a subscriber to on the

circuit, then please give it a look.

And if you are, then

we would be very, grateful if you could share it with a friend and

help us get the word out there.

Yes, please do.

And, and I do look forward to it.

Uh, even though of course, I, I, I do in some way help contribute it.

I know, I know you, you are, you are very much leading it.

But I, but I do get excited every time it, it drops in, in my inbox.

Um, Uh, and, and, and actually that's a nice segue to talk about, uh, you, the

audience, uh, enjoying, uh, content.

Uh, I was, uh, very recently, um, at the CP World Event in London, and many

of you stopped by, To basically say how much you enjoyed a certain episode.

And, and it was really heartening because I had no idea.

And , you know, you, you know, it was lovely to have anecdotes of, uh, you know,

maybe, maybe something all the way back to the first, uh, ones where we did with

Mac and hotel security, um, all the way through to, uh, industrial psychology

that we did with, uh, Nico and Shu.

Um, so, so thanks very much for stopping by and.

You know, giving us your thoughts because that really does make a difference.

Um, obviously we get fan mail if, if, if you might not like topic.

But we, we, we very much love to hear if you do love, uh, a topic.

And, and some of you said also very interestingly that you enjoy

the longer form, uh, interviews.

You're listening to this whilst you are on task.

So if that's you we're thinking of you, you're probably in the rain.

And, uh, we're, we're with you, uh, along your, your journey.

Um, in addition to that, what we've got coming up, well, I am excited to

be going out to Vegas, to the I P S B.

I know that our dear colleague and friend Elijah is doing the EP forum this year.

Uh, that is the seventh and, uh, seventh December.

And, and, and so please do come say hello.

Be lovely to get a nice card of the BBA and Naba community

together at, uh, at the event.

Uh, what, what, what else have we got?

Well, I just wanted to add one thing as soon as I, went on so much

about the newsletter and if I have wet anybody's appetite and they might be

wondering, well, okay, where do I find it?

The easiest way as a podcast listener to subscribe to the newsletter

is just to go to whatever you are listening to this podcast through.

Go to the show notes, scroll down, and you'll see a link to

the newsletter in the show notes.

Love it.

Yeah, keep, keep, uh, looking at the show notes, we do actually put, uh,

quite a lot of attention to them.

So, so click on that link, subscribe to the newsletter, and it's well, um, right.

So, uh, young professional success, uh, this is relevant for.

Or young professionals, seasoned professionals, trying to understand their

environment and how to integrate them.

Um, thank you very much Leo.

We're looking forward to seeing you back in the UK when you get back here.

And, uh, yeah, I've really, really enjoyed this.

Um, makes me reflect on myself as a young professional.

Maybe I still am, maybe I'm not, who knows?

And as John said, you know, keeping it young, , make sure.

You, you, keep your spirits up.

So from John and myself, this has been another fantastic edition