Mic drop moments. Powerful. Impactful. Trumphant. And your new go-to cold outreach opener.
In this episode Darryl is joined by Belal Batrawy (aka Mr. Messaging) Head of GTM at GTM Buddy. In this conversation slash therapy session, Belal explains how chunking your cold call helps you direct the right energy to the right things at the right times. They also talk about the problem with the helpful seller, if you should prioritize relevance or personalization, why to avoid trends, and how to select a mic drop statement of your very own.
Connect with Darryl on LinkedIn.
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How's everybody doing? It's another episode here on the Inside Inside Sales Show. Do you guys ever get tired of me saying that every week it's like every single fricking time I do almost exact same opening. I suck, if you haven't noticed having variety may openings. I used to really put a lot of time and effort into it and then it just became an anxiety. And then now I just kind of do that.
So if you can relate to having anxiety and if you do cold calling, I know you can, because it's like, how do you open that cold call? Right? That's the whole process. Ah, I'm going through some interesting times here. Again, if you've missed a few episodes I've changed jobs the last little while.
And so about I'm. I mean, as I read this recording I'm in week eight, first week was spent in San Diego, a trade show, and the next four weeks were me spending, interviewing everybody in the world. And I did a reorg and I'm shifting over into trying to get the demand generation machine going. And we have started talking about the, the actual brand awareness and development and awareness building processes and hype machine.
Ah, broker's job is never done, but this is a sales show, not a, not a marketing show. Why does it matter that I'm sharing this with you? It's a new gig. And as part of that, a big part of what I'm doing is I'm talking to my sales colleagues, my sales leadership, and of course I also own the SDR team. So, you know, I'm still in the sales game.
And in the process, what you do is you start to uncover. Patterns and habits and tendencies and just mistakes and just missed opportunities that you see the team is, is, is guilty off. Right. And it's never a Melissa never malicious, right? It's not like any one rep like nobody you're listening to this podcast as I'm going to screw management today, and I'm going to do a shitty qualification I'll show you sons of bitches.
That doesn't happen. All right. Everybody thinks that it, in fact, the funny part is when I talked to some of these people here at my new gig, it's no different than any other gig. How are you doing a sequences? I'm good at sequences. You think you're feeling good? Yeah. You know how to do them?
I'm the best you are re how are you on the multichannel? Aha. I totally multichannel. It's weird because I looked at your sequence. You had one LinkedIn touch and it was connection requests and you never went back there. You know, that's what happens every single company. Do you think you have the skills and you don't
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Why are you here? You're here because you want to get better. And that's one of the things I hear over and over again, was talking to. If you're listening, I was talking to Adrian yesterday or the day before, and he didn't even sharing with me how he loves, I opened up every show with this kind of little dialogue I'm sharing what's going on in my life.
And then it always ties into my guests that I bring. And I'm going. That's cool. Cause that was intentional. My me, I didn't start off my show that way many moons ago be we began, I was probably 30 or 40 episodes into it when I kind of stumbled into that process because it was the only way I could really get established a rapport with you and the listener before the guest comes on.
So you understand that you and I are live in the same world and I love that. He said that. So what I'm sharing with you today is just this I knew and I'm figuring it all out. And there's so many areas for improvement. Which is normal. I want to be clear. This is not an anti AgoraPulse thing, everything I'm I'm I could go into any company and I will find this exact same thing.
All right. So I thought I got a lot of things I want to talk about. Who, who do I know that really understands the sales game. And, and when I say the sales game, I mean, just doesn't understand it, but also lives it accountable for driving new revenue, understands the nuances of the channels, and we could just jam on and basically.
Folks I could rip off this podcast to be a therapy session for me. And you could all eavesdrop and the end of the show, you'll say, Praill, you're messed up, but we love you because we're messed up too. And we can be messed up together and your guests can be our collective therapists and that's what I'm doing.
So today, instead of me drilling down on any one topic, I haven't done this in a while. We're going to go on multiple conversations, wherever it goes, wherever it goes. But I do have some ideas I want to talk about. So who's that fellow? Well, let me see if I get this right Belal Batrawy, oh man.
I was so close. I was like right there. oh man. I said to them before in the green room, guys are like, I'm going to totally put your name and do it on a regular basis. And then we did it, the phonetic spelling, and then my autocorrect kicked in and that's what happens. But the loud was the. But Belal is you know, Belal first hit my radar as this rockstar messaging guy and, and he's really, really good at it.
So I'm sure we'll get into that, but that is at it's only one aspect of a skillset. Friend, how are you today? Welcome to the show.[: [: [: [: [: [:
And and as, and I love it. All right. So here's the, here's the tag on the sub stack guys. It says. Death to fluff. And it's got a skull skull, legit sales and marketing advice. No fluff, guaranteed. And. So that's fantastic. And I want to drill down on that in a little bit, cause you had a posted the day. It was kind of interesting about, you know, you've been doing this for a couple years now and all the challenges you injured in that timeframe.
But what we're doing here is a couple of things. Where do we start? I want to start it off. Let's start off because we're having this conversation internally to the day about. And and you know, cold calling it's, it's tough and everybody's got different philosophies on it. You got this mic drop cold calling technique.
So let's set the stage. What is your technique? We want to know this, of course, but I want to know. What was the catalyst for creating this technique? Because I always find half the time, the story behind the story is way more interesting. So talk to me about this.[:
They could've made it more pressure-filled they made me so uncomfortable. And so they put me in a hot seat. I was in an area open floor near the entire. The SDR floor, which is like 30 something people at that time. And I'm hooked up to this mic in this screen, and I'm doing connecting cell back in the day where I'm supposed to get like five, six conversations you know, every hour minimum, if not more.
And and they gave me this really, you know, kind of standard pitch that I was supposed to just, you know, vomit on anybody who, who said hello, and it was terrible, like the worst experience ever. And I remember finishing my first two hours on connected cell. I had like 15 conversations. I think I maybe set one meeting.
And that was only because that person was clearly feeling very, very happy that day. Otherwise they shouldn't have taken it. And I was just like, man, this can not be. This cannot be the way it's supposed to be. Like, there's you cannot tell me right now that I'm supposed to do this for the rest of my sales career.
And this is the, this is the way it's supposed to go. Like, how could this be? So that, that's kind of like where I really sat down and I said, what, what is the problem here? And why does this feel so bad? And I'm like, it's probably because the second somebody says hello, I'm using that as an opportunity to just talk about myself for the next two minutes and hope to God, something in there.
And that just doesn't work. Like it doesn't work in any scenario, let alone this scenario. Why do we do it this way? And that's, that's where I really started thinking about the mic drop method. So that's the story behind. And I still like my problems even get slightly sweaty. Still thinking about that day, sitting in that hot seat,[:
So it's a refuge. So you can go to that. So it's at a logical place to escape to in the anxiety of the moment. So I get it. So here you are. You're two hours into it. You're you're in the cold sweats. You realize there's gotta be a better way you're using connect and sell for those who don't know, Connect and Sell.
Great tool is still out there today. Doing a Chris Beall run, runs the whole show there. And the idea is that they're going to serve like you pumping a list of like 30, 40, 50, a hundred thousand contacts, and they're making like 10 or 20 dials simultaneously. And then when somebody answers a real live person answers, they automatically hand it off.
To the sales rep, who's sitting in front of the the computer screen and a browser interface waiting for that little green light to say, boom, you're connected go. So the idea is it's a, it's a volume game, but it's, it's totally the only thing that's qualified as maybe your list is segmented on a certain title or company size, but you know, nothing else beyond that go.
So it is brute force cold calling. That was your situation. Nobody can relate to that at all. So, so what, what's the, the short version of the mic drop process?[:
Task and break it down into smaller parts to accomplishment. You know, don't calm the mountain by just showing up, you do it in stages. There's base camp stage one, stage two, stage three. If you accomplish these various stages, you will be at the top of the mountain. That's a superpower out chunking. And I said, why can't I apply chunking to this?
Like, how do I go from somebody on a list to somebody answering to some. Actually wanting to take a meeting, how do I chunk this? And I realized, as I listened to the others, SDRs on my team, the ones that were successful were way better than the first 15 to 20 seconds of the cold call than all the others, the conversation, the response, and what was happening in those first 20 seconds dictated the next four to five minutes completely differently than the ones that weren't doing well.
And. It made me realize, let me chunk this cold call. I've got the first five seconds of when they answer, I've got the next 15 seconds, those 20 seconds combined then buy me the next one to four minutes. And then from four minutes, onward is just me deciding whether the conversation should continue or do I.
Be the one to step back and say, okay, I'm either going to set the meeting or this person probably isn't a fit. And that's where the matchup method was born. And I realized, how do I nail those first 20 seconds? So the permission-based opener and then some sort of a framed problem with an open-ended question, right within the first 15 seconds of the cold call that my buyer goes, whoa, that's a pretty well-informed.
Let me like what happened? Like I just picked up the phone, some guy answers. Alright, sells me his name. Never heard of this name before loudly out loud. Like what? And then, and then just drops this like really well-informed problem statement with a thoughtful question at the end of it, what just happened?
And it was almost like shell shock for my, for my prospects on the call. And I was just getting like, And so this is what it sounds like. So I'll give you a real example of it here. So right. Trying it, it was, Hey Darryl I noted, expected my call. Do you have a moment? I promise to be brief and people would just say yes or no.
And if they told me no, I'd be like, well, when should I call back letting them know, Hey, you're not going to get me off that easy. And if they said, yes, they'd be like, what's this about? Or what's this going on? And then I'd go right into it and back. And this would be that from Tri-Net I know for most small businesses, like you.
The number two costs after payroll's health benefits, which have been rising nine to 15% year over year in the state of California, how are you handling your second largest costs rising that much year over year?
And there was all right within 15 seconds. A thoughtful statement with an open-ended question.
And the number one response I got Darryl was wait, who is this again? Cause they were so taken back by the quality of the comp the conversation that just went from hello to that. And I would just repeat no, no fear, no hesitation. Again, this has to be then from trying it, I know your second largest cost.
Is this just wondering, how are you handling that? And they'd go right into a we're we're using a broken. And, and, and so all of a sudden conversation, and now I'm into that one to four minute mark, and that's the mic drop method of securing those first 20 seconds of the cold call. I want to stop talking, drop the mic, let my buyer take center stage and let them.
And the sooner I can get myself off the stage and get them on it the best.[:
Or not. And literally what you just heard Belal talk about there. He did a one, two punch. He used to, obviously he made a first impression because he respected their time. He was upfront. And then he actually asked a value added question that was thought provoking and showed that he understood who they were in the, in the life they're living in a very time condensed chunk.
You'll use Belal's word there. So establishes trust. And that fact that they said, what is your name again? Whenever that happens, you're onto something good. I've, I've talked to other people who adopt a similar approach and, but don't even say the name, like they would say, hi full disclosure, you know, this is a sales call.
Can I have 30 seconds max? And you can decide whether to go or not notice that inseminate them. I didn't say where I'm calling from and they'll say exactly. He said, sure. And then boom, does his value prop, right? And then they'll always say, I'm sorry, I didn't catch your name. And then the good ones will say, you know, it's Darryl and then just carry it.
Right, because it's not about me. It's about you. That's what you're doing. You're trying to respect their time before they tune you out. So I love everything you just said there. So when you adjusted that what was the change in your Connect and Sell efforts?[:
That may made her break, essentially the conversation and what was going to transpire afterwards. Talk time, went up meetings. Actually, I set less meetings as I was talking more and the quality of meetings that I set converted at the highest rate on the team. So by the end of it, when it came time for me to get promoted, I was one of 55 SDRs and I had the highest conversion from meeting set to opportunity.
On the entire sales team, because I was also partly disqualifying people, right. With that opening question of asking him something that I knew mattered to what we sold and what we did as a company. And so. It literally says it's set my career like that. At that point, I established myself as the number one SDR on the team.
And from there, you know, the, the sky was the limit. So it was huge. It was really big.[:
Right. And it's a safe audience. And I'm saying you have to go up because the technicians don't have the budget. You have to go to the actual C-level officer or the agency owner or whatever. And they're like, well, And I said, well, and ironically, I had just gotten Gardner had just sent me this wonderful little snapshot about social media and everything else.
And I said, and so I, and I almost, I basically used your technique. I said something along the lines of, . I know according to Gartner. That beyond staffing's expense when it comes to per your program, investment as a marketer, as a CMO your number one spend, according to the industry is a digital advertising digital digital media in number two spend is social media right behind it.
Ahead of events ahead of pay per click ahead of anything else you can think. It's your number two spend get, I also know that every single CMOs I've talked to has literally no idea what the return on their social spend is. And when they get grilled on it, by the CFO of the CEO, they stammer for an answer and they're at a loss.
Is that something you can relate to? And and of course, silence is whenever you let it hang there. Right. And you can see, my team was like, holy shit. DId Gartner really say that, yeah,
make this up. Right. And they're like, why would we not enough of that? I'm like, cause you're SU you know, your sales reps, so into technicians, that's all we've done. I said, but I live in that world and that's, that's the world I live in. I see you get to speak to me in my world. So what advice do you have below for people who are saying, okay, I love what you're saying.
I want to do it, but I don't know what that mic drop statement is.[:
If the statement is really good, but that statement is so critical because it's so easy to convolute it. So there's, there's like three things to think about when you're making this mic drop question that state, that problem, state that thoughtful well-informed problem statement. Number one, it should be about the status quo, not your solution.
Right? So when I'm saying, I know what your second largest cost is after payroll, I'm telling you, I know what it's like to be a small business owner. I get it. And I know how much it's rising year over year. In California. I'm well-informed and it's that status quo that has nothing to do with my solution while, you know, we help reduce risk and mitigate your costs and flatten the cost curve.
None of that. Right. I'm just talking about them exclusively. That's number one. So it's a problem statement around them. Number two, it has to hit something that's highly relevant to that persona. I was calling CFOs CFOs. What, as soon as you mentioned anything HR, they want to push you off to HR. But I was talking about HR costs, which I know that they were very, very scared about.
So that was the other thing. Right. I knew that this was something that's going to catch the attention of the persona. I was talking to the similar case of what you said. If you can, if you can just tell me assumptively, you know, what my spend is like, as it CMS. I'm going to listen to you. Cause like, at least you, you get it, you get what's happening right now.
And then the third biggest piece is that that problem statement has to be the sort of one where your buyer doesn't think there's an alternate. Like you tell me that and I'm like, yeah, that is it. Darrell, what do you, so what do you, what do you, what are you suggesting here? It tells me there's something else that I'm not aware of.
That's the norm. The norm is your health benefits costs rise. 90, 50% of it. The norm is your second largest spend on marketing is social. And there is no clear way to get, you know, the, the, the data to show how effective it is. That's the norm. What, what it creates some sort of curiosity there of like, are you telling me there's an alternate.
Like the fact that you're calling me and ask me, this makes me think, is there something else I don't know here? And that curiosity is what that next one to four minutes buys me of their attention. So you nail those three things in that problem statement. You buy yourself those next one to four minutes.
It's pretty hard to botch it. After that, she really got to try hard to mess up the conversation at that point. The only way you can mess it up is by just pitch slapping them right after they agree to the problem. The right thing to do is just be bewildered by whatever response they give you. They just say, yeah, we work with a broker.
Oh really? How was I going? Tell me. And that's it. And now you just, again, there on center stage, don't grab the mic back for the love of God. You just gave them the mic. They accepted it. Now they're talking into it, let them keep talking.[: You should be following in:
There's a reason why we have him on the show. He's a kick ass guy. What's interesting is before. I see that reference to Salesforce. He has a wonderful posts, which is he doesn't refer to it as the mic drop technique, but he makes a great point. He says, bad calls, bad cold calls start, you know, and these got three points.
Start with a pitch state one or three unique value props. People like you probably suffer from a or B or C ask people to choose what they're struggling with. Do you chew, do you struggle with one of those. That's a bad cold call corner, blah, but he says a good cold call. Tell me if this sounds familiar based on what we just said opens with permission.
Hey, it's cold calling. Do you have, can I have a few seconds to talk about you frames irrelevant and costly challenge exactly. As he did and ask an open-ended question about how serious the challenge is. So that's what. So it's right there. It is LinkedIn. Of course, if you're following him, you would know that if you're not get out of your behind and make it happen because Salesforce, you know, says he's a player, he's a player.
All right. I want to talk to you a little bit about. We were talking before on a related note, but the whole premise of the helpful seller, the helpful seller, shouldn't we be a helpful seller. Helpful. I mean, come on who doesn't want a helpful seller yet? You seem to have some disdain for the helpful seller.
So we're tight on time. I want to respect my audience's allowance. They, they, they, they will indulge us before they tune out. But talk to me a bit about the helpful sellers, good, bad, or what[:
Position me to think that way. And what I realized was that's not what my buyers want. So just, just think about the social paradigm of a buyer seller. It's one of conflict competing interests, right? Buyer wants something seller has it sellers trying to give it to them at the highest price buyers, trying to get those.
There's just natural conflict in the paradigm of a buyer and seller. So this idea that you can be a helpful seller is almost like oxymoronic. Like it's not, it's not reality, right? Buyers don't view sellers as. Okay. And that, and that's not your fault or, or you know, an attack on you. It's just a real look at, look at the industry trends, people don't trust sellers, salespeople do not have high trustworthiness.
So why would you walk in thinking, well, I'm going to be helpful. That's how I'm going to win them over with kindness. Oh, I'd love to answer your questions. Feel free to ask me anything, you know, happy to circle back with you. It's like, no, you're not, you're not happy to circle back. You want them to answer now?
And if you bring a different mentor, Knowing that the buyer seller relationship is one of conflict. You'll get better outcomes. So this idea that I'm going to be helpful also leads me to be me being the hero of wanting to save them because they need. So I'm here to save them. I'm here to provide, and that's also completely wrong.
The, the buyers, the hero, not the seller, I'm not the Knight in shining armor. They are supposed to be, I'm supposed to be Merlin with a magic sword, giving it to them so they can slay the dragon. If I'm trying to be the helpful one, at some point, I want to save them. And I want to think of them as a damsel in distress, and I'm here to help you.
That's not the right way. So when you start thinking about this and you realize, oh my God, I can go back to the last email I sent them. And find this sort of, you know, horrible levy Debby language, you know, I can't tell you how many times sellers use the word love on a call. I'd love to show you. I'd love to help you.
I'd love to. And it's just like, why are you so lovey, like just talk normal. Like you're not getting married. Okay. But when you want something from someone, that's the way you sort of start. And it's like fight that urge. Don't be that helpful seller. Change it a little bit. Try to be a person that brings wisdom.
Okay. A purse, you know, an advisor is not somebody that always tells you what you want to hear an advisor, a true advisor. You know, a lot of sellers say they wanna aspire to be a trusted advisor, a true advisor. Doesn't tell people what they want to hear. Right? If you think about people that you go to for mentorship, they're not there to be your best friend.
They're there to tell you how. You go to seek counsel from them. Okay. And and, and they don't always know the answer as well. And sometimes they challenge you to figure it out. And in that kind of approach, a mentality as much more befitting the buyer seller relationship than one of like this, I'll just kill them with kindness and they're going to buy for sure. No doubt.[:
You heard him say he was doing this probably 12 years or something now. You recently, when I say recently a year and a bit ago, you joined GTM Buddy, which is a sales enabling platform. You're the head of go to market. So talk to me about why GTM Buddy. I mean, to me it seems obvious it's a sales name, a platform you're like this rock star wizard on sales advice, sales best practices.
Was there another reason that brought you there? What is talk to us briefly about GTM buddy. Want to give them a little bit of a plug?[: term customer success back in:
I gravitate towards that. You know, as a seller, that's your dream to be selling something that is unique, that's different, that works better. And you know, that your competition is too big, too slow, whatever, to really react to that. And there's a real market opportunity. Those are the best startups to be a part of you grow the most.
There you make great money. So GTM buddy was that for me, it was a real unique opportunity to work with a team that I respect and obviously in a product. That I think really can help my, my audience. And, and when you get the two of them together, why wouldn't you, what would stop you?[:
And me looking for some therapy. I set the stage by saying, you, you know, you, you, I think, you know, when I first heard of you, it was because everybody was like, Rick, have you talked up below and he's like, Mr. Messaging, you need an email framework. He's the guy. So. Can you give us a parting gift? If I was to do an email, if you were to say Darryl, try this email framework in your sequences. What's a quick and dirty email framework. You would suggest we try?[:
That's what you want to sell when you're cold, anything calling, emailing, FaceTiming, whatever that means that person is in the unaware maximum the awareness stage of the buyer's journey. They're not, they're not evaluating, you're reaching out to them. So the thing you want to do is you are fighting for their attention and the way you get their attention is by labeling the status quo.
What is that common enemy? What is the thing that makes them angry and on Sunday? When they're thinking about their week. And if you can say that in an articulate, clear way, you will win their attention. Relevancy, trumps personalization. If you can be highly relevant, you will get your buyer's attention and every job and every role has that thing that they think about on Sunday right before Monday morning, that they're just like, oh my God.
Like if I just didn't have to deal with that, my life would be so much better state that. State it put a target on it, make it extremely clear and articulate. That's the framework you'd want. You can write that in a text message that doesn't have to be war and peace in an email. I know blank is something that bothers people in your role.
How are you handling it today and just end with that level of curiosity. And if they can admit to that problem, you've got an opportunity. And if they can't admit to that problem, Better for you now, you just saved yourself a sales cycle with somebody who was never going to buy anyways.[:
Otherwise you'll just say pray, all saying the same old, same old I've said you over and over again. Don't just make it personal, make it relevant. And the example I use, like when I was, I was a CRO the example I use, I would get an email saying, oh, you must be sweating. Cause you've got this big ass quota to hit, but it's personnel.
I mean, you know, my role. Yeah. I've got a big ass quota to hit, but you know what, so does it read the CRO and our VP of sales and you know, it's not really relevant. I took that job knowing it. It's not keeping me awake at. At least not right now, but you know, what does, what is relevant is that my damn sales rep, isn't following a very simple sales discovery process that we've been over 14 million times.
And when I listened to the call recordings, they still flub it up. That's pissing me off. That's relevant. Right? So that's what Belal's getting at. That's what he's getting at is make it relevant to them. I just use that as an example, you, you got to figure out what's relevant for your audience, but there you have it.
We're out of time here folks. So I've I've you know, he, oh, I do one more question for below. Here it goes and we'll end it on this and then we'll see everybody back here next week. Well, how come every fricking second email I'm getting in my inbox these days is AgoraPulse less than greater than GTM buddy.ai.
Like where the hell did that subject line come up and why are people still using it and think it's relevant. That's my pet peeve of the day.[:
So I made out and said, here's how to write. I, it was just expected that I know how to do it. So I'm not surprised that people just do. Whatever's like the easiest, most copyable thing. Cause if you've never been taught that school, Why would you, would you like risk trying to come up with something on your own, but don't do that.
You get graded on the curve as a seller so that every, whatever everybody else is doing, try to avoid that because you will then blend into that curve and you will be forgotten and you won't win the attention war.[:
Check them out. I'm Darryl. This, my friends is the Inside Inside Sales Show. I am so glad you took time out of your schedule to join us again. Join me next week for and do it again. Take care.
This episode was digitally transcribed.