What if the key to extraordinary leadership isn’t just about achieving more, but about becoming more whole? In this episode of Seek Go Create, host Tim Winders sits down with April Diaz, founder and CEO of Ezer & Company, to unpack a transformative, holistic approach to leadership that moves beyond traditional power structures. April shares personal lessons from her own journey—from her early days as the “bossy” girl on the playground to her groundbreaking work coaching high-capacity leaders and advocating for women in executive spaces. Whether you’re an experienced leader, burned out by the old rules, or simply curious about what it means to lead with authenticity and intention, this candid conversation is sure to challenge and inspire you to redefine your own path to wholeness.

"Leadership begins within, and you are the most important person you will ever lead." - April Diaz

Access all show and episode resources HERE

About Our Guest:

April Diaz is the founder and CEO of Ezer & Company, an acclaimed executive coach with over 25 years of experience guiding more than a thousand high-capacity leaders—including C-suite executives and Olympians—through transformative leadership and personal growth. Renowned for her holistic, inside-out leadership approach, April combines bold strategy, deep soul work, and practical tools to help leaders thrive both professionally and personally. She’s a certified coach with expertise in neuroscience and human development, and is the creator of a proprietary wholeness assessment that challenges traditional leadership models. With extensive background in church ministry and a passion for equitable, sustainable leadership ecosystems, April is recognized for her energetic, intentional, and authentic guidance of leaders seeking meaningful impact.

Reasons to Listen:

1. Discover April Diaz’s unique approach to holistic leadership that blends deep soul work, bold strategy, and practical tools to help leaders thrive—whether you’re burned out or seeking your next level of growth.
2. Hear personal stories of transformation, resilience, and the realities of navigating career pivots, motherhood, and spiritual calling in high-capacity roles, especially for women leaders.
3. Explore thought-provoking insights on how our greatest strengths can become our kryptonite, the power of energy management, and why integrating all parts of ourselves is the secret to sustainable success.

Episode Resources & Action Steps:

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

1. Ezer & Company Website: April Diaz’s company, where you can find coaching programs, resources for holistic leadership, and take the Wholeness Assessment.
2. The Whole Leader Snapshot (Wholeness Assessment): The assessment tool discussed in the episode, designed to evaluate your holistic well-being across six key areas.
3. Enneagram Reference: April mentions she’s an “8 on the enneagram” and discusses the framework as a helpful tool for understanding leadership and energy. While not a direct resource link, listeners are encouraged to explore enneagram personality resources for self-awareness.

Action Steps for Listeners:

1. Take the Whole Leader Snapshot Assessment: Spend a few minutes completing the free assessment on the Ezer & Company website to get a sense of your strengths and growth areas across physical, emotional, mental, relational, spiritual, and renewal dimensions.
2. Reflect on Your Own Leadership Approach: Consider April’s encouragement to embrace holistic, integrated leadership. Identify one area of your life (e.g., energy management, emotional health, or spiritual wholeness) that needs more intentional focus and set a small, actionable goal this week.
3. Engage with a Coaching or Mastermind Community: If you’re a leader feeling burned out or stuck, consider joining a mastermind group or reaching out for coaching—especially in an environment that values growth, authenticity, and whole-person integration, as modeled in April’s programs.

Key Lessons:

1. Holistic Leadership Is the Future: April champions a leadership approach that moves beyond external achievements and power dynamics, focusing instead on bringing your whole self into leadership. True transformation happens when leaders integrate their physical, emotional, mental, relational, spiritual, and renewal selves.
2. Your Superpower Can Be Your Kryptonite: High energy and ambition can drive extraordinary results, but unchecked, they can also lead to burnout and hitting brick walls. Managing personal energy and developing rhythms for recovery is essential for sustaining high capacity leadership.
3. Life and Leadership Evolve Through Seasons: From the complexities of juggling family and career in your 30s to finding clarity and impact in your 50s, leaders experience significant shifts as they age. Embracing these changes and adjusting expectations is key to thriving through each stage.
4. Women’s Leadership Offers a Generative Alternative: April shares that women lead differently—often with more emphasis on sustainability and partnership rather than power and hierarchy. She advocates for building ecosystems instead of empires and believes that partnership is the antidote to both patriarchy and matriarchy.
5. Self-Awareness Is Foundational to Growth: Taking personal assessments and having honest self-reflection can reveal blind spots and opportunities for greater wholeness. Effective leadership begins within, requiring expanded internal capacity to achieve meaningful external impact.

Episode Highlights:

00:00 Introduction to Holistic Leadership

00:53 Meet April Diaz: Transformative Executive Coach

02:20 April's Superpower and Energy Management

04:48 Navigating Leadership Challenges

08:15 Age and Leadership: Insights Across Decades

12:41 April's Early Life and Leadership Journey

18:14 Spiritual Path and Ministry Challenges

22:15 Women in Leadership and Ecosystem Building

30:29 Discovering Coaching: A New Path

31:44 Discovering a New Path in Life

33:24 Transitioning from Ministry to Coaching

36:01 Challenges of Asking for Money

43:20 The Concept of Wholeness in Leadership

46:48 The Importance of Self-Awareness

51:13 Balancing Life and Leadership

59:24 Defining Success and Overcoming Challenges

Resources for Leaders from Tim Winders & SGC:

🎙 Unlock Leadership Excellence with Tim

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📚 Redefine Your Success with "Coach: A Story of Success Redefined"

• Challenge your perceptions and embark on a journey toward true fulfillment. Dive into transformative insights with "Coach: A Story of Success Redefined." This book will help you rethink what success means and how to achieve it on your terms. Don't miss out on this essential read—order your copy today!

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Mentioned in this episode:

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Feeling the pressure to chase more, yet still wondering, “Is this it?” You're not alone—and you're not without hope. In this brief pause, Tim Winders introduces Coach: A Story of Success Redefined, a transformational novel that challenges the world’s definition of success and offers something deeper. Ready for a wake-up call that inspires faith, purpose, and lasting change? Grab your copy now at TimWinders.com and start the journey today.

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I'm like doubling, tripling down on this holistic leadership approach

because I think that it is the future.

I think that we have seen now a couple of generations of what it looks like to

just be all about the externals or to be in the position of a power struggle

And I think that there are a lot of folks that are going, that's just not

working, that's not transformative.

It doesn't help people to become the fullest version of themselves.

So let's find a new way and bring the whole person into it.

What if the secret to effective leadership isn't found in doing

more, but in becoming whole?

In this episode of Seek Go Create the Leadership Journey.

I sit down with April Diaz, founder and CEO of Azer and Company, a trailblazing

executive coach who's helped over a thousand high capacity leaders from

C-suite executives to Olympians navigate transformation from the inside out.

25 years of experience and proprietary wholeness assessment,

I took that last night myself.

That's turning traditional leadership on its head.

April brings a rare combination of bold strategy, deep soul work, and practical

tools for thriving in work and life.

you're a burned out leader or a high achiever looking for your next level of

growth, this conversation will challenge and inspire you to lead with more

intention, authenticity, and wholeness.

April, welcome to Seek.

Go Create.

Thank you for having me, Tim.

It's delightful to be here.

Yeah, we're gonna have, we're gonna have fun.

I can tell I

I know.

whatever the word spunky describes, that would not be me.

listened to some episodes, done some research, and so

we're gonna be like, spunky

Some yin and yang.

or whatever.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, hey, I, I, I kind of bounced around on my opening question, but for you, I,

I feel like I need to ask, I think this one would really get us going in a fun way

Okay.

a coach, and I know you've thought about all these things, but I'm gonna

ask you what might be a hard question.

What is your superpower if, if someone had to nail down a superpower for you?

And the reason I'm asking it while you're thinking is I get the

feeling that you're good at lots of stuff, but what's your superpower?

Hmm.

I wanna say it's teleportation 'cause that would make life so much easier.

I really wish that I could teleport.

Um, so that would be my superpower if I could choose one.

Uh, dang.

That's a hard question.

I mean, not a softball to get us started here.

I,

Why is it

but here's what,

tell me why it's hard while you think about it.

Why is this a hard question?

I think because I am good at a lot of stuff and that comes with its

own set of Achilles heel problems, problems when you can do a bunch.

but I think, I think my superpower is saying yes to

things that are scary and hard.

Challenge accepted is my superpower.

hmm.

Good.

So where does energy fit in with you?

Because I, I also, I, I don't know why I thought you might

say I bring the energy, like,

Yeah, that's true.

brings in.

'cause that's kind of my

Mm-hmm.

of

Yeah.

that be accurate?

I mean, I've, I've only done

Yes.

I haven't, you know, been

No, that's good.

years.

But,

You're a good detective.

yeah, for sure.

I mean, energy is a huge part of the work that I do.

Like how do we, how do we help leaders with their energy management

and being more energized, et cetera.

But yeah, I mean, I would say I'm an eight on the Enneagram, if you're listeners are

familiar with the Enneagram, which is why I said challenge accepted, because that

is like the descriptor of the Enneagram.

but also eight have the highest energy out of any other number,

any other type on the Enneagram.

So yes, I, I often feel a little bit like a Tasmanian double or a, like

a, just a dog chasing my tail and days that I can't get enough focus.

so I certainly have a lot of it, and I, I feel it in a room.

I can sense where the energy is going, where it's draining,

where it's, where it's popping.

I can sense like when a person is.

Certainly like struggling with something in their energy.

so yeah, I mean, I I like that you picked that up.

I'll, I'll, I'll accept energy.

That's my superpower.

I'm gonna bite on something that you brought up earlier.

I was thinking about bringing

Okay.

up later, but I, I heard, I have heard people say, and maybe they've

directed it at me, that our, our superpower could become our

kryptonite, you know, to, to play into

A hundred percent.

Yes.

and how, and we're just kind of starting here to,

Yeah.

have people hang around to let 'em know we're gonna be vulnerable.

We're gonna talk about strengths

Mm-hmm.

stuff here, but, uh, how can that superpower

Mm-hmm.

kryptonite, uh, for your role or all the

Mm-hmm.

have or

Mm-hmm.

how can it become your kryptonite?

'cause sometimes they

Yeah, it's a hundred percent.

I would've said in my twenties.

I'm 46 now.

in my twenties.

I mean, I describe myself as a go-getter, relentless, challenger, highly ambitious.

Like those are very true things about me.

So I, I mean, sometimes I brag, like I can get more done before noon than

most people can get done in two days.

Like, just, we've got a lot of capacity.

But in my twenties, when I had more like natural energy, like youthful energy and

all of that stuff combined, the kryptonite or, what my spiritual director actually

called my Popeye arm was, I would run so fast and so hard for so long with

such intensity that I wouldn't even see the brick wall coming until I hit it.

And I was flat on my back and I couldn't get off the couch for two days.

And I had a migraine headache and tension running all the way down my body.

And I was like, where did that come from?

I, I couldn't even see it.

I mean, mach two is my natural speed, so.

I'm older and wiser now I can see the brick wall coming.

So I still run real fast and real hard.

I can still get more done before noon than a lot of people can get done in two days.

However, I'm much better at rhythms and managing my energy and pace

and slowing down and recovery.

And because I've experienced the brick wall, I've experienced the, the impact

of energy gone amuck, unregulated energy and the significant consequences when

you don't manage your energy well,

Hmm.

Let me fast forward and give you a glimpse of about, you know, 15, 20

years from now, you'll look at the brick wall from a distance and go, meh,

nah, not.

I'm not even gonna, I, I'm gonna just sit here and watch people run into it.

And then maybe, maybe, you know, take an Uber around the brick wall and, and

then at the end of the day go, wow, look, look at it's, no, it's fascinating.

Uh, April, there's so many.

that I want us to go.

We talked before we hit record, we, wanna address leadership and all of

Mm-hmm.

related to, we don't like to group people, but you know, sometimes things

are different with male and female.

We'll get into some of that later,

Mm-hmm.

I also think you just brought it up, so I'm gonna going with

Yeah.

Age

Uhhuh?

plays into also.

What,

Mm-hmm.

Is there a bracket of people that you deal with a lot as far as age goes?

I know you, I, I read that you deal with a lot, or mostly women, I'm

sure it's probably not exclusive, but

Nope.

there an age bracket that you have a large group of your people in?

Yeah.

I would say late thirties to upper fifties is kind of.

The main zone that I'm in, you know, it's because I work with high capacity

leaders, I work with a lot of executives.

It's folks that have had long enough to like build a career and a runway

and have, you know, establish some of those extra responsibilities in life.

but are also now, like they know that they still have more gas in the tank.

They've got some more like room to run and things to do with their life.

So it's kind of in that like middle third of life, I would say, as folks that I

typically tend to work with the most.

So what do you observe when I talk about things like age?

Let's just, let's just bring something, 'cause that's a fairly wide range.

I mean, you're talking about 20 years

yeah,

see a difference and not every Listen again, we don't, we don't, we're not

lumping everybody into things, however we

yeah.

What do you

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

So I would say if we're gonna start in like the thirties.

The thirties is where a lot of people's lives get way more complicated.

you know, people tend to get married, have kids, so there's just all of the juggling

with all of the things and you add in.

Then for women that are in executive or high capacity roles, that makes

life really complicated, and difficult.

So there, there's this kind of breaking point or breakthrough opportunity for

women in late thirties and into the forties of going, things have to be done

differently in order for me to do it all.

I actually believe you can do it all.

You just can't do it all, all the time.

And so you need to figure out how to interplay these things, how

to change roles and expectations and, and share household labor

and all those kinds of things.

in the forties, I would say, 'cause I'm smack dab in the middle of it

right now, 46, fully perimenopausal.

We can talk about that in a whole nother episode.

Tim.

I'm sure your audience would love that.

But, this is a decade where women are going.

I'm no longer willing to tolerate a whole lot of stuff, and I feel

much clearer about my gifts, my skills, my voice, my contribution.

and still there's some next level and there's some things that I need to tweak

in order to do things differently than I did as I trained myself to do in my

twenties and my thirties, particularly in my career or in my parenting.

fifties is this really beautiful thing that mentors told me would happen, and

I'm seeing it happen with, leaders that I work with, again, particularly women, in

that the fifties, more of the gifts and the experiences get, like brought together

like a stew or a soup, where it's like the flavors are melding, it's coming together.

It's not like separate things being cooked in different places.

Like what happens in your twenties and your thirties.

but it's a more of a coming together and, and then in the, you know,

fifties and beyond, it's like the most impact and influence can happen

if you have led yourself well.

And if you are, deliberate and aligned with how it is that you want

to lead and how you want to live.

It's like magic happens, like so much breakthrough, so many superpowers,

so much impact that can take place because deliberate work has been

done over a period of time and it's like this phrase, suddenly or

slowly and steadily, then suddenly.

I've been saying it a lot recently 'cause I'm seeing that with a lot

of folks that I'm working with.

It is very interesting.

I, I sent out an email to our followers and all today, and I just wrote, my wife

and I had our 37th anniversary last week,

Oh, congrats.

yeah, thank you.

And I wrote something to the effect of that.

We really feel as if we're just getting started.

We're at a place where we're going through some transitions, there's

some unique things going on.

We're, we're probably working as much, if not more, in some very

Hmm.

very, very encouraging

Meaningful.

And, and so it's really cool.

But I, I do agree with that.

I also think we have seasons that we go through

Yep.

and, and I will say for those that hear this probably every episode,

grandparenting really, really cool, especially compared to parenting.

You could just kind of do your thing and then you're out and it's like, bam.

Feed 'em sugar and then piece out.

I know, yeah.

Send some money to 'em every once in a while and do

That's great.

good.

So, so that's

Wow.

right, so, so let's do this before we get too much further, because I

really like to really see the type journey that people, uh, have been

Mm-hmm.

And I, I, I think I read, I believe You, you were married young and all of

Mm-hmm.

go back maybe even farther than that.

And I like when people say they, you know, energy is their superpower.

They've always been kind of a leader and all that.

Mm-hmm.

want to kind of dig and find out if that's really the case.

Were

Mm-hmm.

people what to do on the playground?

A hundred percent.

A hundred percent.

I sort of

I told everyone, yeah, I, I told everyone where to go and what

to do, and I was called bossy.

boys are called leaders, but I was called bossy and I just had an idea

of like how everything could be done better, how we could play better hide

and go seek, and what better hiding places would be and what better,

tagging we should do and what, where people got off the rails and were

doing things that weren't so copacetic.

And I was clear to make sure that those boundaries were held and justice was had.

So, yeah, literally from the earliest of ages, I mean, I

went to Faith Baptist Christian School from kindergarten through.

middle of fourth grade is when we moved.

Those earliest memories on that playgrounds in Morton,

Illinois were absolutely me.

You know, it was me with the teacher raising my hands, you

know, I helping teachers, pets.

All of that stuff was quintessential April.

You weren't only bossy, you were boss and Baptist around, which is.

I didn't know that that wasn't allowed, Tim.

I grew up, I, I grew up in the deep south and I guess I probably

went to kindergarten and all that kinda stuff in the Baptist Church.

So.

Cool.

So gimme a couple other high points along the way and just your, that mold you.

And, and what I've often found the struggles

Mm-hmm.

mold us more than victories,

Of course.

one.

Just give, give me, give me a couple of high points along

the way before we start talking

Mm,

all the things you're working on now to kinda how April became to be April.

Yeah, so April moved in that middle of fourth grade to Dallas, Texas.

my family had all of my extended family, both sides were born

and raised in this small farming community in central Illinois.

That was my whole world.

And in the middle of fourth grade, that whole world kind of blew up and

my family moved to Dallas, Texas and.

I am so grateful for the three and a half years that we lived there,

because ultimately what it did, it, it made me a big city girl, for one,

and, but on a deeper level, it just exposed me to a bigger worldview.

It exposed me to different kinds of people from all over the world.

different neighborhoods, different life stories, different experiences,

different church, all kinds of stuff.

That really expanded my imagination and it expanded the possibilities of what I

could have seen if I would've stayed in that same small town in central Illinois.

And that was, it was really hard because again, it was all I ever knew

is this, you know, little 8-year-old girl to have all, you know, I had 15

cousins and both sets of grandparents and all these aunts and uncles.

It was just, it was a very connected family and that all went away when we

moved, you know, a thousand miles away.

So that was a really difficult thing and.

Even in the midst of it felt like, oh, something is being like, birthed in me.

Like, I literally remember that as a fifth or sixth grader.

Like something is happening in me and I don't know what it's about,

but I, I think I'm messed up.

Like I think I'm forever changed by this experience.

the other thing that I, that just came to mind is when I was a senior in

high school, I, I was a great student.

I was, student council president, like involved in all of the things, campus

life and high school, my, you know, the Christian club and one of the key leaders

there, very well liked, not necessarily popular, but just was friends with all

the people in all the different groups.

And my senior year I ended up applying to one college.

don't recommend it.

That's not the smartest move.

But I applied because I really sensed that that's where God wanted

me to go and I was overqualified.

And in April of my senior year, I got the letter back in a very thin packet

saying, sorry, you're overqualified in every way, but there's simply not

enough space and we cannot accept you.

and that is honestly the first time that I can remember significantly failing.

Like my resume looked good.

I had done all of the classes, I had the GPA, I had all of the

extracurriculars, I had all the leadership experiences, and I didn't get in and

I didn't know what I was gonna do.

And I was Deb TATed and felt like a total failure, like my whole

future just shut down in front of me and I didn't know what to do.

And, you know, in a way that only God can do beautiful things happened.

And it changed the trajectory of my life, obviously, and I would

never trade it for the world.

I'm so glad I didn't get into that, that college.

that will remain nameless, but I, it, it just set me on a different pathway and.

yeah, I'm really grateful.

So I would agree with you that most of the, the best things that have happened in

my life have come from the deepest pain.

Yeah.

Interesting.

So this is another connecting point we have.

I was president of the student council also coming along, so I don't know.

Someone's either listening in going, oh man, that's, those two are nauseating,

or they're going, well, that's kind of

Get over yourself.

I know.

Come,

No one cares if you're high school president.

yeah.

No, it was, it was.

but not that cool,

Yeah.

on it, you, you've, you've, you mentioned your spiritual journey a

little, a little bit along the way

Yeah.

did you grow up in and around church?

Did you to know, you know, church or Jesus later?

What was, what's

Mm-hmm.

spiritual path along the way?

There?

Yeah, I mean, I asked Jesus in my heart when I was five years old in

kindergarten at Faith Baptist Christian School, it always just made sense to me.

faith has always just resonated on a deep level that there was, yeah, that

there both is a god, and that there is a God who loves me and the world.

And, to be loved by God and to love others is kind of the way to go, the way to be.

And so, yeah, I, I mean, in high school, like I was the only friend

in my friend group that wasn't like drinking and doing drugs and having sex.

I was friends with all of them and I loved them deeply, but I was like, why

would you do that if you have Jesus?

And why would you do that if there's like this greater calling and purpose

on your life that just felt like you're kind of making a mess of your world?

I felt called into ministry as a 16-year-old, like a pretty clear

voice from God that this is what I've marked your life to do.

And, but Tim, there was no context for that for me.

Because I was a girl, I had never known that there was a pathway or a

possibility that girls could be pastors, really that girls could be leaders.

so really so much of my origin story is like, this doesn't make sense.

I maybe I'm in the wrong body, like maybe God messed up with me because

I have these very clear gifts of speaking, of teaching and of leadership.

But nowhere in the church was that allowed.

And it certainly was, I mean it was discouraged.

so when I felt called in ministry, it was like a head scratch.

But I remember distinctly as well talking about challenge accepted back to the

very, very beginning is I had this very, definitive moment, this very clear choice

of I serve and follow God, not man.

So if God's called me to this, then maybe they got that screwed up.

And I, so I, my obedience and my allegiance is first and foremost to God.

So I ended up pursuing, a Bible degree and, going into youth ministry,

at one of the largest churches in the country and was in vocational

church ministry for 17 years.

And, have, you know, been outta that world for about 11 years at this point.

But really, the thing that I am, I, I have lots of friends who

are no longer followers of Jesus.

Lots of folks that I know who have left the church, and people that I love

deeply and, and respect and all of that.

But for me, I just constantly think of, you know, Peter who says,

like, to whom else would I go?

This is, this, is it all, this is it for me.

You gave me so much to talk about in that,

Sorry.

that little talk there, and so I'm trying to kind of decide

here which direction to go.

I think the first thing that I wanna do is address the women in

ministry thing that you brought up.

Someone has to have a pretty either conviction, some would.

Possibly this, this is not my word.

I would, I'm using the word, the word rebellious, that

sure.

don't care,

Mm-hmm.

or you had to break away from some stuff or,

Mm-hmm.

and I, I. I get annoyed with a lot of things that come out of our church.

I'm, I was saved in a business setting later in life.

So it, I'm a little

Ah,

different and weird

sure.

I, and especially being leadership and coaching and all, like

Uhhuh

to

Uhhuh.

here shortly, I look at a lot of things in ministry and I go, truthfully,

I just hate to, you know, we don't have profanity on here, but what

the hell are they doing truthfully

make sense.

Make it make sense?

talk a little bit more about, I will go ahead and say this, the,

the disservice of some of these structured religion, I don't think

it's scriptural, I think it's religion

Mm-hmm.

caused some of the issues I believe with, you know, females

not just going into ministry.

I mean, I don't, I don't think ministry's in, but, but I mean, even

being in leadership and all in business.

Yeah, yeah.

Ultimately, it's about power.

and so when there is a struggle for power, then of course

somebody's gotta win and be on top.

And I, fundamentally do not see that as the way of Jesus.

That's not who Jesus was.

That is the antithesis of how Jesus came into this world to be of servant and all

of who Jesus surrounded himself with in his ministry years were the marginalized.

so many of them were women.

Women bankrolled his ministry.

So I, yeah, I think ultimately it, it has a lot to do with power and

fear and talk about a disservice.

I mean, research is even clear, Tim, like when, when women get money,

disproportionately invest in their families and their communities.

I'm sorry to tell you, men do not do that.

Men keep it.

It's, it's research, it's data.

And so there, there's something really fundamentally messed up.

I, I think that.

This is another sermon for another day.

I think that the enemy has a special hatred for women, from the beginning.

And it has it, it is now, it is generational curses.

It is all kinds of, of things that are barriers and, and limitations for

the sake of power and because of fear.

So I think that for me, once again, there was, there was enough purity somehow

and preservation in my relationship with God where it just didn't make sense.

Similar to you.

Like I literally, I mean, I was born and raised in a very

conservative, fundamentalist church.

I mean, women were HUD coverings.

They greet each other with a holy kiss.

Men and women sit on opposite sides of the church, you know, full suits to

church, the whole deal, no instruments in the church, all all kinds of

very, very, very conservative things.

And it never resonated with me.

So was I considered rebellious?

You did use that word.

I would say yes, but they didn't have a box for me.

Like there was, I mean, I still have relationship with both sides of my

extended family, whom I love dearly.

And I got a nose ring.

I dunno if you noticed, I have tattoos.

I wear makeup, like I swear.

I, yeah, there's a lot of things that don't fit the box, but I think at

the end of the day, like there's at least a, a belief that I love Jesus.

So I don't know if that totally answered your question, but I.

It allows me to kind of keep ranting and then I'll throw it back to

you to get your comments in this.

I, for whatever reason over the last year or two, I have decided to

immerse myself in the first century so

Mm

understand the audience that the scriptures New Testament were written to.

So, to understand the letter that

sure.

sending, who is he sending it to so we don't take it outta context and

Yep.

Context, context, context.

Mm-hmm.

' cause we're screwing up bad.

I'll go ahead and say

Big time.

out front.

Big time.

wasn't written.

written for me, but it written wasn't written to me.

Mm-hmm.

let me just tell you what, if you want to see some powerhouse when

Mm-hmm.

sent people back into

Mm-hmm.

right when Nero opened it back up, this was

Mm-hmm.

went

Mm-hmm.

later and then burned people to stake.

But he was looking for a leader of leaders to go into the biggest city in

Yeah.

at the time, and he sent a woman businesswoman in there.

Mm-hmm.

she was the one, it was very

Mm-hmm.

too, by the way.

People

Yeah, of course.

it was and all, like you mentioned, the, the women that, that, that

were with Jesus and others.

Mm-hmm.

think it is ridiculous what we've done.

So that's one rant.

Second

Mm-hmm.

I have said all along that men can't handle the type of things that are thrown

at them when they become a leader over a few with a church and they've got the

Mm,

and then all of a sudden it grows to 20 and 202,000.

Men cannot handle all that.

We are asking men.

I mean, I think, think you've been to a church years ago that had issues

mm-hmm.

one of the biggest around, right?

Correct.

We'll go and say Willow Creek.

I saw it on your resume and I said, Hmm, let's don't get off on

It looked real good on the resume until that time.

well, how'd you handle that?

Um, anyway, but one of the things I always said, I said, I

don't think men can handle it.

I actually think women could.

Now I don't, I don't like the leadership model we've structured in church world.

We don't

I agree.

into

I agree.

think

Yep.

put too much on one person.

It's usually a

Uhhuh?

all this kinda stuff, but I think women could handle it better.

do you think?

Yeah, I mean, I have a couple of big thoughts that really,

honestly have shaped the structure and the values of my company.

One is, I don't wanna build an empire.

I wanna build an ecosystem.

America and the American church looks a whole lot like an empire

and empires crumble and fall because of the power structure.

but that is not how an ecosystem works.

An ecosystem is generative.

It is sustainable, it is mutually beneficial all the way around.

It's beautiful.

An ecosystem is beautiful.

You know, go to the Great Barrier Reef, look at any sort

of thing in nature, right?

The cr, the creation that has been modeled for us, and I think that's

how leadership is supposed to work.

So the other part of that is I don't think that the response

to patriarchy is matriarchy.

It's partnership.

It's been like that since the beginning, since the literally

the creation of man and woman.

And it's been modeled all the way through the life of Jesus

and the formation of the church.

And we just have, we just have traded the ecosystem for the empire.

We've traded partnership for patriarchy and.

None of that serves both people.

So I am all about women leading fully in every single space equally with men.

I would love to see women give it a shot at ruling the world for the next 2000

years because the way that it's gone so far, it hasn't gotten us too far.

It's, it's not bearing good fruit.

So sure, we could give women a shot at it, but I do think that there

is something about the way that women lead that is really different

and is so much more generative.

So that's what I'm really committed to.

Yeah.

And I, what you just described, I, the of God popped into my

Yep,

you

yep.

you know, there is, there's a king and then,

Yeah.

and then

And it's not me and it's not you.

Yeah.

And it's not necessarily even servants, it's more stewards.

There's more stewarding that's going on.

You just described

Yeah.

You know,

Yep.

people that you coach and you interact with,

Mm-hmm.

and you're not the boss of any of them.

You're probably not even the boss of your organization.

You're a steward.

And so, anyway, that was, that was really cool.

Mm-hmm.

I, I don't really have notes, but none of this was in my notes, so I'm

having fun with this conversation.

We're just going rogue.

at what point.

At what point did you say, Hmm.

I'm a coach

Hmm

I'm, I've, I've thought all along I was, but I think our industry's also

a little bit odd and weird right now.

Oh yeah.

little bit, but at what point did you say, Hmm, I'm,

Mm-hmm.

to coach people?

So my first taste at coaching was in 2005.

I got coached by Dr. Jack Groppel.

He is literally one of the world's best coaches.

And he changed the trajectory of my life.

I was 25 years old.

I was that, that April version that was running mock two so fast

and so hard that I hit that brick wall and didn't see it coming.

And he helped to shift that trajectory to running a little bit slower,

seeing the brick wall, slowing down, all of that as one piece of the work

that we did together for a year.

And so that was a taste, and then it kind of went dormant and I

was pastoring and then I became a mom and all sorts of things were

happening over the next decade.

But then in, 2013 ish, no, 2012.

2012, I, I needed another round of coaching and I had a friend who was

again, just a world class coach.

And so I asked if he would walk with me for a year and coach me because

I was sensing that I was at the end of my pastoral journey and that, I

needed to figure out something else.

However, I never imagined not working for the local church.

That was my whole vision for my future.

And so I was, I was very deliberate with him and I said, I need for you

to help me cultivate an imagination for what else is possible, but beyond

the church, because I don't see it.

I was in my mid thirties.

I had three kids under the age of four.

I, I'd done this for 17 years.

Like there was, there was just like a whole life that had lived

and built, but I didn't have an imagination for what else is possible.

And as he coached me through that year, something lit up in

me and I was like, holy crap.

I think this is what I'm supposed to do with my life.

And what's beautiful is that it, it takes some components of pastoring, mainly

just the walking with people and like being in, going deep and having good

conversations, but it puts structure.

And I was like, this is actually what I think leadership development and spiritual

formation is, is supposed to look like.

But the church, to be honest with you, most of the time has no idea what

to do with either of those things.

They have no idea.

They just, they put together programs and piecemeal things together.

But I was like, I think this is it.

There's frameworks, there's structures, there's a goal,

there's accountability and support.

But at the end of the day, part of what was really good for me in becoming a

coach is that it took away a lot of the Messiah complex that I had as a pastor.

'cause.

At the end of the day, I don't care what you do, it, it's not my life.

You're responsible for it.

You get to live with the results, you get the consequences and the rewards.

I'm not making those decisions for you.

It, it felt like, I, I know what transformation now looks like.

I know how to help people get from point A to point B, but you get to do

that and you get to own all of that.

And I don't, it's, it's just not my responsibility.

So that was, it was 2012 ish when it really, it felt like my eyes lit

up and my heart set a fire and I was like, okay, I wanna run towards this.

And so I did.

Did you feel?

I, I've, it's, it's, it's a common thing that we have here, April, people

that have been in a ministry full-time ministry role and then gone into

some type of or something like that.

And so this is a fairly common question I like to ask, and that is, you

feel like a failure at all leaving?

You said you were called to ministry at

Hmm mm-hmm.

that the, the way we typically define that,

Yeah.

not saying right or wrong, I'm just saying typically

Yep.

that you are in a church where people show up on Sunday, Wednesday, a couple other

nights, and you're doing and all that.

Yeah,

go through any, Hmm.

Oh my, is God gonna think about this?

so that's a really good question and what's feels a little surprising to me to

say is no, I didn't feel like a failure.

I did feel a lot of grief.

I felt grief that I was leaving behind something that.

Felt like it was gonna be forever, like my whole life.

So I just felt sadness about, there really wasn't anywhere else

for me to go or anything else for me to do in the local church.

and I just kind of hit my own wall, you know, my, my own

internal wall or a ceiling.

And so, you know, I'm, I'm, I've lead a couple of mastermind groups right

now and one of the conversations that I'm having with those folks is a lot

of times when you hit the ceiling, um, you have a choice of whether or not

you keep hitting against that ceiling or you just get comfortable and you

kind of settle back down and go into status quo and you're just stuck still.

or you can figure out a way to break through that ceiling and then

you're going to the next level.

And so for me it was, I just was really clear as a 35 year olds,

there's a lot more left in me.

I have a lot more untapped potential.

I've got a lot more years to live, hopefully.

If I've kind of maxed it out here, something else

has to be on the other side.

So it was more of a, yeah, more of a grief that this was the

end and that something new.

I had to figure that out and I didn't know exactly how to do that.

And certainly, you know, as, as a mom with three young kids, like just all of

those kinds of like provision questions and protection questions and how are we

gonna do this as a young family, were big.

But it was clear.

It just was clear that I had to move forward.

Many times when we go through transition, there's a, there's a lot of emotion.

Mm-hmm.

I've, I will often be much more excited about it.

but I could see that grieving, especially if

Yeah.

setting and all that.

Do you recall when you started asking people for money for coaching?

That was

Oh my gosh.

because a lot of people, especially ministry, they go like, how can I, I,

I've never had a problem asking for money from anybody, just so you know, because

I was, remember, I, you know, I, I was a

Yeah.

You did not grow up in the church.

later, so I was, I was the great unwashed masses that came in.

But

Uhhuh.

I was like, no problem.

But I, I

Yeah.

of people, they coach, coach, coach, but they can't

Mm-hmm.

say, okay, that's a thousand dollars for this time.

Or, you know, gimme a buck

Yeah.

like that.

What, what was that

Uhhuh

me, tell me about that.

I could tell by your response.

It could be

so.

this.

Yeah, I mean, I've been on an intense journey for the last decade with

my own money conversation and the scarcity that I've had around money.

You know, for 15 plus years I sold Jesus and I had no problem asking

people to give their souls to Jesus.

Like, that's a pretty big ask, but when it came to somehow I was a part of the

conversation and that there was a, there was still a transaction related to me

in a, in an invoice or in a contract or in a proposal, it got real tricky,

real fast and the downgrading and the minimizing and the justification of

like, oh, it's not really, don't worry about it, or I, I'll figure it out.

And yeah.

So I've been on a really intense, again, deliberate journey to undo a lot of those

money talks, those internal conversations about my relationship to money.

I also think that, at least in my experience, the church is really

bad about talking about money.

and I, I've come to a place where I want to make a lot of money.

Not so that I can like, have a lot of zeros in my bank account or, you know,

live this crazy, extravagant life.

But because I really believe that when you have been given much, much

is required and when you have been blessed, you get to be a blessing.

And there's a lot of folks that are in need, and there's a lot of ways

that my dollars, can be of benefit and service in the ecosystem, in the

ways that we care for each other.

You know, who, who is your brother's keeper?

Like, we belong together, we belong to one another.

And so, yeah, I, I'm in a much different place now with money

than I was a decade ago, but I have had to work through so much.

It's, it's wild to me.

Like I'm a really good coach and I know people that have been coaching

for like five minutes that charge five times more than what I've charged

You

and it doesn't make sense.

charge.

You can tell me offline.

Yeah, exactly.

It, it, some of it is the lane, like in the first probably seven, five

to seven years, I was working almost exclusively in coaching youth workers.

So churches don't pay for that.

Youth workers don't have dollars.

So there's, you know, there's a supply and demand, you know, a value there.

but certainly as I've grown in this space, it is, yeah, it's just wild how

much work needs to be done internally in order to be of service externally.

I, since that's a bit of a technical question about, about money,

I'll, I'll ask a few other, what I call technical coach questions,

Oh, cool.

because you brought up masterminds, which I love, I love participating.

maybe weigh too much.

And then also I love leading and guiding them and, and just being

Mm-hmm.

me what is the, the.

The type of coaching that gives you the greatest joy?

Is it, is it more of the group type settings?

Is it one-on-one?

Mm-hmm.

what do you really dig about, the

Yeah.

Yeah.

So our six month coaching group is a hybrid.

it is two group coaching sessions every month because I believe that

transformation happens better together.

And again, for particularly for women, even women in high capacity executive

roles, there's just not enough of them.

There's too much of a unicorn type of mentality.

They don't look around and see other women just surrounding them.

and so that, that connection is really important in a group context.

And I love that.

I love seeing like the magical sparks that happen of like, me too.

I thought that I was the only one.

You think like that as well.

You've struggled with that.

Like it's just.

It's so helpful to just know you're not alone.

so that group context is my favorite because of that.

And also because like I, I get to watch it, right?

I facilitate it.

Certainly I'm coaching it, but it is, there's something that you just

get brilliant women in the same room together and magic happens.

So that's awesome.

But then I also do one-to-one, one, one-to-one coachings call with all of

those participants every single month.

And what I love most about that is you get really deep, you dig in hard,

and the level of vulnerability that exists there is you can just do more.

because of that, that 60 minutes, and they know that is their space to like let all

their guards down, take off the armor.

Let it all hang out, you know?

And I've heard so many women say, you know, I've never said this to anybody

else before, even my husband, or, I can't believe I'm actually saying this out loud.

And so that kind of creating that safety, and the space for them to be brave

feels like holy ground all the time.

And I love that.

So yeah, I think it's both and, both and for me, but gosh, yeah.

I don't know.

It's good.

know, we talked about earlier, you talked about spiritual

development and things like that.

I,

Mm-hmm.

I've said this before and I don't think I'm making too much out of what we do as

coaches, but to me, especially when you're combining it like you are, you're doing

the small group and y'all are y y'all

Mm-hmm.

sharing in each other's life.

Sounds a lot like

Yep.

to me.

Mm-hmm.

what, you know, discipling, let's use that word, working with

Yeah.

one-on-one, spending time with them.

I really think that is the model that is missing in ministry.

I actually think you're

Yeah, yeah.

that you're

Oh,

now.

I'm doing better ministry now than I ever did in the church.

Hands down, I've said it a hundred times, unapologetically.

It's, it's so much better.

It strips away so much of the BS and the pretense.

And part of the beauty too is, Azer is not a Christian company.

I'm a I'm a Jesus person, so, you know, that's informed in all that we do.

But our groups are really diverse.

So we have women from all sorts of faith backgrounds and experiences.

over 50% of the women that have participated in our coaching

groups are women of color.

We are L-G-B-T-Q inclusive.

So there's, there is a hugely wide.

Swath, diversity of, of women that are in our group.

And that just makes it better too, because everybody brings in their differences.

And then we say, oh my gosh, we're so much alike and we, we belong

so much to each other, and we're gonna honor those differences.

Because that's a uniqueness that you bring that represents, you know, what

I think is the image of God within them that's unique to that person.

but yeah, I think it's, it's all of that too.

That is, it's, it's really, it's holy ground.

It really is.

It sounds like the kingdom to me, but,

It is.

cool.

So,

Mm-hmm.

along the way you developed an assessment

Mm-hmm.

you used the word wholeness and, kind of an interesting and odd word.

Tell me about wholeness.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So the root word of wholeness is healing.

And I think that a lot of us need to come back to ourselves.

That there is a healing, whether it's from childhood or from a, you

know, difficult, difficult experience or some sort of loss or betrayal.

I mean, we all need healing.

but in the healing, it's, it is a reclamation of the wholeness

of who we've been made to be.

wholeness is also connected to like the word alignment and integration.

And so, you know, the work that I do in one word is, is around integration.

How do we stop the compartmentalization and the segmentation and the separating

ourselves and bring it all back together?

We are whole people.

So who you are at home and at work and with your friends and with your kids

and all of that, that's the whole you.

So it's more about how do we bring those parts together so that you are not having

to just fragment yourself out depending on whatever space that you're in, and really

to look at that whole person requires.

Our framework has six parts.

we start with physical and then it's physical, emotional, mental,

relational, spiritual, and renewal.

Those six parts work together to create the whole person and you

know, there's different layers within those six parts for sure.

But that is really what the whole person is and requires in order for us

to live and lead with our whole self.

All right, so I went and I took the assessment last night.

Yes,

It

it's called the whole leader snapshot.

overall score is 8.97 and.

pretty good.

Tim,

Physical

of 10.

emotional, probably fudged on that.

I've got a 7.4 mental 8 6, 9 4 9 2 on spiritual and then a 10 on renewal,

which my scores, it wants me to bring up the topic of someone who might be

delusional that takes a self-assessment.

And how might, I don't, first of all, I don't, I don't think

people that are totally delusional would take an assessment.

However,

Yeah.

possible.

I mean, there was some, there was some bouncing I did like, uh, unemotional.

I generally don't get very emotional about things.

And there was some questions that were pressing that I was thinking, Hmm, this

was, this was kind of tough for me.

I, I don't necessarily

properly.

Mm

What the way society says, but I think I handled it okay with me, so

I didn't know where to go anyway.

But

sure.

Yeah.

is, oftentimes self-awareness

Mm-hmm.

achilles heel that most of us have.

Mm-hmm.

that will claim we are self-aware and take assessments.

Mm-hmm.

do we deal with issues in delusional and self-awareness issues?

Yeah, it's a great question.

I mean, that is a really high score, one of the highest ones I think I've seen.

So either well done or

and I'm really at peace and rest.

I, I have a lot

mm-hmm.

in my life.

I sleep well and

Mm-hmm.

So anyway, I'm

Mm-hmm.

part of it's age and it kind of goes back to the age question we talked

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that's good.

So, I mean, you're right, the, that assessment is designed

to provoke self-awareness.

There's a lot of questions on there that most people don't think about in

their everyday ordinary life, especially if you're a high capacity leader and

your goals and your MO is more about operating with the externals, the KPIs,

the metrics, the, the initiatives, the projects, the, all of that, right?

My approach is that leadership begins within and that you are the most

important person you will ever lead.

And how you can lead more effectively and more efficiently to, you know,

increase your impact and your influence is to expand your internal capacity.

When you expand your internal capacity, you will naturally get

different external results, right?

This is, this is Jesus stuff.

It's like outta the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks.

It's all like a good tree.

Bear is good fruit.

Like all of this stuff is embedded.

It's just human design, you know, how humans behave and develop in the world.

And so I, this, this assessment is really to help kind of provoke that.

I will say and agree with you.

I. Most people think that they are self-aware, it's like 90 to 95%.

I think that's the research is that people will say, I'm self-aware.

And the reality is about five to 10% of folks are have actual self-awareness.

So there's a big gap between who we think we are and what we are.

So that that assessment and that's, our mini one.

We have, the one that we use on our coaching program is 120 questions.

It is much more robust.

It goes much deeper into really kind of bifurcating and nuancing.

What does wholeness look like in all six of those dimensions and where

might be there be some opportunities.

So we use that as a starting point because the first task of a leader is to

define reality and that starts with you.

So what is really going on about myself and to whatever degree you're willing

to be honest and to really reflect and look within is going to get you.

The results on the other side of it, because then we're gonna

be able to actually do the work, or we're just gonna play a game.

So it's, yeah.

I would say most folks that in our, in our community or that I've worked

with, have some willingness to go, okay, maybe this could be better.

Maybe this isn't actually real, or this is a part of my life that I'm, I am willing

to actually explore a little bit deeper.

Yeah, I enjoyed it.

I, every time I do assessments, I'm kinda like, I've done a

lot of assessments in my life.

Mm-hmm.

is I'm

Same.

I wonder how long this takes.

It was, it was light, but had heaviness.

At times

Mm-hmm.

didn't take a lot of time.

It was like, you know,

Five minutes.

Yeah.

And I was like going, Hmm, let me, let me do this.

I think this is how I can learn about April is, you

Oh, I love it.

Good job.

so, and we'll include links and we'll mention it again

before we, we wrap up here.

But

Good.

where do you see trends related to You know, you, you interact

with a number of people.

I see some things.

Sometimes I'm concerned that my age, I don't wanna be like old crusty guy.

I, I actually don't think that, but I know that people can be.

Where, where

Yeah.

see things going?

Are you generally optimistic, pessimistic about leadership in general?

Oh gosh.

I think I'm eternally optimistic and I'm very concerned about

the state of leadership,

so I, it's a both end to me.

I think that leaders disproportionately change a room, impacts a family,

influence a nation, and the results of the consequences of those decisions

and that way of being in the world.

Is, it's huge.

So, I, I mean, I'm like doubling, tripling down on this holistic leadership approach

because I think that it is the future.

I think that we have seen now a couple of generations of what it

looks like to just be all about the externals or to be in the position

of a power struggle or power over.

And I think that there are a lot of folks that are going, that's just not

working, that's not transformative.

It doesn't help people to become the fullest version of themselves.

So let's find a new way and, and bring the whole person into it.

You know that I am, like a couple of times in this recording, you've seen one of my

kiddos running up and down the stairs.

Like, that's just life.

Like, that's my family, you know?

I was on a coaching call a couple weeks ago and I got a call from my kid's school,

and then it was the nurse's office.

And I felt so guilty and unprofessional in the moment to say, I'm sorry, Melissa.

I need to go.

My kid needs me to pick them up from school.

And her, her response was beautiful.

She's like, you're a mom first.

And I was like, thank you.

You know, it's, but I, I don't know that I always would've even done that.

I probably would've told the nurse, like, hang on that kid for the next 30 minutes,

and I'll be there after the call is done.

But I'm, I want to be this, I want to be the same congruent human

everywhere that I go, you know?

And so this, this holistic approach allows me to bring myself together and

not be just pulled apart and fragmented.

Does that make sense?

I, it, it totally makes sense.

And it's also the stress or the tension we face in the culture

and society that we're in today.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

know, we, we all face it in a different way.

You know, when

Mm-hmm.

you know, it's different than when the kids are grown up.

I'll tell you that

Sure.

grow up, you don't stop parenting.

That's what I hear.

know, it, it just looks a little bit different and, and it's just

a, a tension that that goes on.

And, you know, like back to the leadership thing, I think the thing that's.

I don't think it's disappointing to me.

I think it's maybe even discouraging a little bit.

We don't have a lot of great examples leaders at

Hmm.

national, I'll say the national level, and most of 'em are political

and that, and this is not a, you know, a party type thing.

Either, name any of them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

and I could, I could poke holes in their leadership, even if it's the

Mm-hmm.

I

Yeah.

could take a stance.

And so I think the examples tough for, the teenager that just walked up and down the

Mm-hmm.

you.

And the best examples that they can have are, are, you

know, their, their mom sitting

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

a conversation with some dude on a podcast or something like that.

Mm-hmm.

but I also do believe that the profession of coaching.

Helps.

Yeah.

But this profession, we brought this up earlier.

There, there is, there's a lot of people that are leaving and all that, that are

deciding that they are a coach There.

A lot people that coaching looks like a path to make money.

To go back to the money thing earlier, and I, I've like early

on April, I knew I was a coach.

Like I wanted to be

Mm

and a coach.

Both my parents were educators.

I say this all the

mm

and then I found out how much money they made and I

You're like,

poor.

And so I became an engineer and all that.

And then, but everything I did, I went back to coaching.

So talk a little bit about, let me, I wanna word this in a different way.

What separates you out?

What separates you?

What there, there is a lump of people, and I

yeah.

got some degrees in coaching and things like that.

I like that.

But there are a lot of people out there with degrees in coaching and other

Sure.

not be,

Yeah.

me why someone would be part of what you're doing and what they would

Mm-hmm.

that experience.

And be bold and don't be

Yeah.

I don't think you will.

This is not a time for humility.

Well, humility actually is agreeing with God about who

God actually says that you are.

So,

Yeah.

I mean, I do think a baseline is certification and training.

You would never go see a therapist who has not done time, who has not

got the degree and done the hours and taken the test and all of that.

You just wouldn't, I mean, that's, that's malpractice, right?

So there's a lot of coaches out there who have not done the basic, the baseline of

what it looks like to be, to practice.

The developmental science of transformation or of growth or whatever.

so that is the basis.

Like I, I'm trained in neuroscience and trained in just how,

how humans actually develop.

So I think that that's a, that's a baseline.

It's like a starting point.

Get you up to the base or get, get you up to the, I don't know, sports, I'm just

making stuff up now, get you on the team.

I don't know.

So that's a starter.

But I do think that what makes our stuff unique is that, or makes my

coaching one, I am doing the work hands down on unapologetically.

I hopped on a coaching session last week with a client and she asked how I was

doing and I said, do you want the quick answer or do you want the real answer?

Do you want the, just the fine or do you want, and she

said, tell me the real answer.

So we spent the first seven minutes and I was really vulnerable with

her about something that was just integral to my own wholeness work

that was happening in real time.

And, she was like, I thank you so much.

She's in her like mid fifties now, and she's like, I just have never

followed anyone that has modeled that for me, that has shown me what it

looks like to really lead boldly and to be courageous and to kind of both

have your shit together, but also not.

And, she was so grateful for it.

And so I think that like I am, I am practicing what I preach.

I do what I am inviting others to do.

I am far from perfect.

I lose my temper with my kids.

I'm not present at times.

Like I, I can be a hot mess.

but I'm in it.

I'm really doing the work and I think there's something to be said for that.

It's also a distinctive and a uniqueness that a lot of coaches out

there will just tell you what to do.

Like, do as I have done, I have been this successful, I have done X, Y,

and Z. So you just take my playbook.

And then you can also be like me.

I'm not your guru.

I'm not your expert.

You are, you get the, to be the expert in your own life.

And so I, I get to be a midwife or a doula or some sort of, you know, stand

witness to this beautiful transformation process and ask you great questions.

But at the end of the day, like, I will not be, do not call me if you

want advice from me or if you just want me to tell you what to do.

That is, I, I won't take that kind of responsibility for your life.

You get to decide that.

and then our framework, our, I mean, our six part framework is pretty freaking

powerful and it gets people results.

And what is cool.

Nine times out of 10 is the leaders who we work with go, I achieved the top

goal, but I did not anticipate these a hundred other wins along the way because

I did it from a holistic framework.

I did not just achieve the goal at the expense of all these other things.

I brought myself and all of this other stuff along for the journey, and I am

more of myself and I achieved this really big thing and I'm really proud of that.

And I'm really, I just really believe that is the future and

we can, we can replicate this.

This is a, this is a system.

This is a process.

This is a way of life that you can integrate and it will

continue to just compoundedly get you really powerful results.

So that's a starter list for you, Tim?

Woo.

That's good.

That's good.

That's good.

how can people find you?

Where do they need to connect?

We'll put a link down for the assessment, but go ahead and

Yeah.

people if they're like riding in their car or listening in or something like that.

Yeah, zer and co.com is our website.

It's EZER and co. zer and co.com/snapshot is the link to the assessment

that you were talking about, and that will get you directly there.

It's also on our homepage, but I think that's a really great first step because

it does give you a reality check.

You know, if you're, if you're willing to do a little bit of internal

reflection, you're gonna get a, a good first look at what's like, pinpointing,

you know, where are you really doing well, where are you struggling, where

might be a good next step for you.

and then there's an opportunity to even schedule a clarity call with me if you're

like, I want, I would like to do some more work here and figure out what it could

look like for us to, to do some work.

Awesome.

Last question.

How are you defining success right now?

And it could be big, big, big, or it could just be something small

that's, at one point our tagline was redefining success, but, just curious.

Mm-hmm.

in a word, success to me is sustainable.

It is, it is something that you can live into, you can live with.

but I think that for me this year, this is a whole nother podcast, Tim.

So dropping this at the 1159, I'm coming out of a two year medical health

crisis that, tried to kill me and, it was catastrophic on every single level

for my life and for my leadership.

So I'm just coming.

I'm about six months out from like coming back to myself in that.

And so success for me looks like, restoration.

It looks like.

God giving back so much of what has been stolen and, and reclaiming

what has been given to me.

Hmm.

I, the, the reason I think that's so beautiful is in the

world we're in word success.

People tie so many what I consider to be superficial things, but being restored and

having your health and being vibrant and

Mm-hmm.

doing what you're doing.

Really cool.

April Diaz.

Thank you, thank you for all that you're doing, but specifically

thank you for being on the show.

Thanks for talking and letting me poke at you with some probably questions

that others may not have asked.

Am I fan?

I am, I'm excited for all that's, going on.

I'm excited for people that are gonna take the assessment down in the links.

If you're on YouTube, we'll put it down below and if you're listening

on the podcast, it'll be on the website that, that you could

click on and connect with April.

And and I just appreciate all of you being here, man.

See, go create is growing.

There's a lot going on

Hmm.

heck

Good.

Enjoy talking to people like April.

So thank you all.

We have new

Yeah.

every Monday, so see you next time on Seek, go Create.