Unlocking Real Estate Success: A Conversation with Paul McAllister and David Pereira on Rent to Own Investments

In this episode of the Wisdom Lifestyle Money Show, host Paul McAllister welcomes guest Dave Pereira, the founder of Rent to Grow Homes. Pereira's company focuses on aiding deserving families to become homeowners and providing passive investors with an annual return of 20%. The conversation also includes discussions on how to effectively manage rental properties, the connection between real estate investing and poker, and the benefits of setting up a corporation when buying in the states. McAllister and Pereira also discuss the approach to overcome challenges and risks in real estate investing and the importance of effective portfolio management.

00:00 Introduction and Host Background

00:40 Guest Introduction: Dave Pereira and Rent to Grow Homes

01:11 Dave's Journey into Real Estate Investing

02:18 The Impact of Rent to Own Investments

03:58 The Importance of Stability in Rent to Own Deals

05:38 The Benefits of Rent to Own for Tenants

08:50 The Challenges of Rent to Own for Lenders

18:47 The Ideal Investor for Rent to Own

22:11 The Importance of Property Inspection

22:29 Technical Difficulties and the Return to Discussion

22:51 Investor Returns and Wi-Fi Issues

23:22 The Connection Resumes: Discussing Investment Returns

24:03 Investor Reporting and the Transition to Poker

25:13 The Connection Drops: A Monologue on Poker and Investing

27:49 The Connection Returns: Continuing the Discussion on Poker and Investing

30:15 The Connection Drops Again: More on Poker and Investing

31:07 The Connection Returns: Wrapping Up the Discussion on Poker and Investing

31:10 Transitioning to Real Estate Portfolio Discussion

33:15 Exploring U.S. Real Estate Investment Opportunities

37:29 The Importance of Setting Up a Corporation for U.S. Investments

39:10 Closing Remarks and Contact Information

So welcome everybody to another episode of

the Wisdom Lifestyle Money Show.

My name is Paul McAllister.

I'll be your host today.

If you don't know me, I'm a real estate investor, a real estate coach,

and a mortgage agent at LendCity.

We focus strategically on mortgages for investors and

growing portfolios for investors.

We offer some unique Things that other mortgage agents wouldn't offer,

which is like we have a LendCity Investors Hub with 600 investors.

We have, we will actually do a real estate portfolio investment

business plan with you.

So those are unique value propositions that we offer.

Today, our special guest is Dave Pereira.

Is that correct?

Pereira?

Pereira?

He's, his company is Rent to Grow Homes.

Their mission is helping deserving families earn their way to home ownership

while providing passive investors With a target annual return of 20%, 20%.

So we're going to get into 20 percent behind that.

Dave, how about you give an introduction?

And yeah, let's get into it.

Thanks for having me, Paul.

I started listening to your pod in the last little while.

And I love the pace of the interviews, the fact that you guys get into it quickly.

And there's always a couple of good nuggets that I get out

of every episode I listen to.

Thanks for for putting out amazing content.

And I think I messaged to Scott Dillingham that his is one of the

few newsletters I actually read.

I got a ton of emails and don't necessarily I might open a lot,

but I don't read a lot that one.

I actually will make time for it and take a couple of minutes.

In terms of myself, yeah, so been an investor for about 10 years now,

you mentioned rent to grow homes started that a couple of years ago.

And like you said our focus is really around helping people who are helping

good renters with good incomes, get to the next level of home ownership.

A lot of them will get rejected by banks for a variety of

reasons, typically not enough down payment, not enough credit score.

So we provide that bridge to help them get into home ownership.

So we've been doing that for a couple of years now.

I was an investor in rent to own before becoming an operator.

So that's how I cut my teeth in that.

And it's been incredibly rewarding to see family succeed.

That's really cool.

Yeah.

So it's, I love the investment side of things when you can actually

make change in community society.

Makes total sense.

It's greater purpose.

Okay.

So that was

actually really important for me.

I just to point out that was actually really important for me because whenever

we're like, so yes, I like to make money.

I like to make money for my family.

I like to grow wealth, but for me, it's not necessarily a scorecard thing.

Yes.

We want financial security for my wife and I, for our children.

But sometimes we make these investments and they're completely

into the kind of this black box and.

I could invest in Apple stock.

I could put money into a REIT.

I could do a bunch of things where I put money And later on, I get

some more money back, but I haven't really made any impact on anything.

Even with buy and hold, yeah we're nice landlords.

We take care of our stuff, but we're not necessarily really helping.

I don't think we're really helping anyone or advancing society whatsoever.

Whereas with rent to own, like you actually are seeing a family who

has, you're helping them with their spending habits and their saving habits.

And you're seeing progress over three years.

From not being able to get qualified by the bank to being there because

they've saved more money and we've helped them raise their credit scores.

And at the end they get, they're already living in the house, but

now they get the keys to their home and they're just a moment of pride.

It's really cool.

And yeah, it's one family at a time.

We're not a big scale business, but it's something and it's a

nice little legacy to leave.

Yeah it's

really cool.

So I said we're investor focused, but we still have a lot of investors

like yourself would be sending us deals to get them on the other end.

And I have a deal right now that it's rental and they got it.

But it was I think a four year which I think usually they're shorter.

We can get into kind of the specifics, but I think they saved, they were paying

an extra 12 or 1300 bucks for that time.

They have about 60 grand down payment saved.

And the cool part I thought of this deal was like, they've all worked.

So mom and dad worked at the same place.

For three years and nine months and the son, the sons are in on the deal as well.

So two sons, grown children, and they both work at the same place

for the exact same amount of time.

And they all make around the exact same amount of money.

It's like the stability of the, this family.

Like I want to meet like a lot of stuff is online, right?

But like I want to meet them.

Because it's like, how are you so stable?

And, but it's cool that they went to rent to own, they've made it work.

And it definitely would be like a success story of somebody

getting, making it happening and their credits are all above 700.

So it's really cool.

Now that they look great in the eyes of the bank now, right?

Because stable jobs for three and a half years for them on title.

So the combined income will be great.

They've worked to increase their credit score over 700.

You said they've saved over 60 K with.

Option credit payments of 1200 a month, like it's, it really,

it's a month by month thing.

Like the progress is slow, right?

It's a really like flat slope, but over three years, over four years, it's

like the difference between point A and point B, where you wind up is huge.

And especially for these families.

Yeah, especially you could be paying rent and you,

then you're still trying to save it.

It's cool that it's structured.

It's structured and you're getting benefits of, yes, the space.

And then from an investment standpoint, I think it's really cool that they're

going to obviously take pride in their space because they know that

their goal is to get that right.

So you're getting people.

I was just talking to one of my friends who's an investor and

he was saying, I don't know why, how people do this renting stuff.

He's people are so disrespectful because he's just getting into it now.

And there's this one guy just tell him like, and he's

he's so disrespectful to me.

And he leaves the, he has a thousand, it's all inclusive rent and he has

a thousand dollar electrical bill.

And he's I don't know how somebody even can have that big of a bill.

And he, so it's but when you're doing a rent to own, it's not something you're

gonna, you're gonna run into, they're going to take more pride and respect,

Holy, it's totally different, cause it's an owner mentality.

Yeah.

Just as you said, they the tenant buyers, what we call these.

Temporary renters, tenant buyers, they absolutely have an owner mentality.

And there's a couple of things there.

Number one, the contract that we have them have with them basically states,

Hey, you are in charge of maintenance.

You are in charge of cutting the grass, in charge of snow.

So all that stuff that typically a landlord has to do, that responsibility

has shifted to the tenant buyer.

So contractually, they're obligated to take care of the place.

But more importantly, it's a mental thing.

So they aren't seeing this house as I'm going to be here for a year.

Let's whatever.

If we leave it trash, no big deal because we're going to move on to the next place.

That's not their mindset.

Their mindset is this is the house that we want to put roots in.

This is the house that our family is going to be in for some years.

We're going to get the keys in three years and have our own mortgage

and be on title and be owners.

This is the house we take care of.

And it's a totally different mindset.

We do inspections of our places every three months or so.

And it's more of a courtesy call, but I do want to make sure there's no grow

ups or I want to make sure everything is going the way it's I do the same thing.

And inevitably, it's the houses are split.

They're great.

Like they, there's, they've usually enhanced the home.

They've spent their own money to improve the home.

And every time I go, like in the way we do it, they need to

let me know so I can approve it.

But, I'll always say yes, unless there's a reason to say no.

If I know it's going to raise the value of the home, it makes sense.

And you can see every now and then there's this incremental improvement, a new fence.

Or they're working on the basement and they're doing

something there or they're like.

Putting in flooring in the basement, right?

Like it's one step at a time.

They don't have huge budgets, but it's so cool to them.

So cool to see them

investing in their home.

Yeah.

It's usually when the wife gets an idea, she's going to do the idea.

And also like even the outside, like I see the exteriors, I have

rentals where people like, they're like, can we do the landscaping?

Can we have a garden?

Can we, so when you have those people, those are people that are going to be

longterm and you're automatically, I think getting that with the rent to own Vibe.

I think one thing for the, I do the inspections as well.

I do the, because I have interconnected fire alarms and all my places.

So that's my excuse to go in on a quarterly basis and make sure I check off

that box that I'm testing the fire alarm.

And I'm also making sure there's nothing crazy going on in there.

It helps me make decisions on certain things.

If I want to keep the tenant or strategically not, or

those types of things.

Okay.

For our listeners most people are listening.

I know we're on video, but most people are listening.

So I thought anywhere, like where is your like where's your geography?

Like, where do you focus on these rent to owns?

Is it all Canada?

Everything's just Ontario.

No.

So we actually decided to focus in Eastern Ontario.

We'll, truthfully, if a good opportunity comes up in well end

or in kind of southwest Ontario and the numbers make sense, for sure.

We'll operate we'll look at it.

But in terms of where my marketing effort is, where I have a team set

up and where I've just tried to establish a presence, it's really

been Eastern Ontario, so corn wall.

Brockville Ottawa region anywhere in that area, a couple of reasons for that

number one, we actually went to buying some rental properties in that area.

So before we did that I did a fair, pretty deep analysis to justify to myself,

why do I put my family money into this?

And why do we have skin in the game and want to actually buy rentals in that area?

So I did that analysis back in 2021.

The reason we went up there is my wife's from Cornwall.

So she knew the area relationships were there.

That was the reason go to Cornwall on Christmas to visit family there.

And then start discovering holy, like home prices were reasonable.

And when I say reasonable, they were in the three hundreds, their four hundreds.

Like you can get a home today in Cornwall for three 50, a three bedroom,

one to two bath, absolutely livable.

While that home for three 50, the rents are 2000, 2200, 2300.

So put that into our investor calculator and all of a sudden

you realize I can cash flow here.

So that was the justification for me as an investor to do the buy and hold there.

And then as I started meeting renters and just talking to real estate

agents and mortgage brokers there.

I started to realize there is a huge potential for rent to

own here because of incomes.

So there's a lot of people there who work at Walmart the Walmart distribution

center, or the Ollie Mel factory.

There's there's a lot of sort of large corporations.

With tons of people making say 50k 50 to 60k per year, but as a couple they're

making a hundred to 120 if they are making that much money and They just need time

to save a down payment and any time to repair their credit and in small towns

And a lot of people I'm talking to like they weren't necessarily trained In terms

of how to maintain their credit score financial education just wasn't a thing.

And those of us in our 30s and 40s know that we just didn't

learn enough of that in school.

So I talked to a ton of people in Cornwall who apply, and there's

always like lots of stories as to why their credit scores are so low.

And the ones that we wound up working with, you can see that

they've changed their habits.

You can see there's motivation on their part on to why

like they want to be better.

They've already saved money with the hope of buying a home.

So they've got skin in the game on day one.

And so I just realized there was a lot of people there where it made sense.

Now, when I say a lot of people, for every hundred people that I talk to, we probably

will let two to three in the program.

Unfortunately, there's a lot of people who would love the idea of owning their

own home, but they just don't have the incomes, they're, they have way too much

debt they're on ODSP, and unfortunately, the bank will never recognize that.

As a source of income for a primary residence.

So we cannot solve it for everyone.

The reality is we probably are able to help two to 3 percent of

the inquiries that we get or the forms that we get on our website.

But still those two to 3 percent are thrilled with with the

process and how we work with them.

And yeah, so we've decided to stay in that market Eastern Ontario.

We'll probably expand to Welland, Niagara, look at those areas

where again, if cashflow is possible, then we can make it work.

If cashflow is way too tight or there's no argument for appreciation

in that area, if I think I think GTA could come down further.

And GTA, it's impossible to cashflow already, so I would

never touch GTA for rent to own.

But in these smaller tier two, tier three markets where there's a case

for appreciation and cashflow is.

Is available today.

Those are right for rental.

So I guess one, I've got a deal done before with ODSP.

Somehow I forget the lender, but it was a while ago, but there will be, there is

some lenders that will take that income.

There's a lot of parameters on how, so I understand why to stay away from it.

From a lending standpoint when they get to the end is there a certain lender that

you find is, are doing these rent to owns?

Like I know I have a list of about 15 or 20, but is there one that particular

that you're seeing your clients get financing, final financing with.

Or is it just spread out?

Are you involved in that process?

Are you just go get approvals or how to, how does that work?

Do you stay away from it?

No, I don't I see my job as risk management and part

of the risk I need to remove is.

Making sure that they're not stuck at the end.

So I will typically let them work with so I have a mortgage broker who

has qualified in the very beginning.

Of course, with the partnership I have with him, he will ideally work with

the tenant buyers to, to place them.

Realistically, one thing we've tried to do is avoid even saying

rent to own to the lenders.

As much as some lenders just don't want to touch it, even though the king

government has come out and said, this is part of our housing strategy, the banks

haven't totally bought into that yet.

And they're still remembering the scam stories and all these sort of horror

stories and their risk management.

People are saying.

Do not touch rental.

So there's some banks where we just don't even bother.

But overall, we try and structure things and make things set things up so that

the word rent owner, the phrase rent own doesn't even need to be mentioned.

It's simply a sale between a seller and a buyer.

That buyer just happens to be living here already and here's where their deposit is.

Yeah that's really cool.

So we try to actually leave it open.

Yeah, no, I think I literally called around five lenders

yesterday to ask what Rento made.

Rento, no, Rento, no, right away, just not even a thought.

I'm like, these guys are good.

I have to say that people I just told you, but they're like, no way.

And then I found 15, but still it's people didn't even usually BDMs want to talk.

They're like, no.

Yeah, so I, I find it interesting, but one thing that I realized, cause I, I

had submitted to a deal and I got it declined it, you have to like this cool

thing that you have going is meeting up front when you're making a contract with

the mortgage person, mortgage broker, they're going to know the guidelines.

They're going to know how to set it up.

For example, like one of the declines was.

The mom and dad signed the rent to own, but the kids weren't

on the rent to own agreement.

So that doesn't meet our guidelines.

No, that's the reason that was like, I was like, these are above 700, everything

going and they're like, no, it doesn't meet the guideline because so if you went

to the mortgage person, they would know where they're going to go and they would

know how to structure it and they would make sure that those things happened.

So I think it's really smart meeting that mortgage person upfront.

Yeah, I'm someone who thinks that common sense should

be applied in most situations.

And what I've learned is the bank doesn't agree with that philosophy.

So this wasn't even a bank like this

Or any lenders, right?

Like again, I get their job is a risk management.

So I understand that.

But if they just looked into the story and saw that these are people with

good saving habits and they've done everything they're supposed to do

to get to the finish line and you're going to nail them on a technicality

of like their name wasn't here.

Really?

But to avoid all that stuff, that's why I get the broker involved in day

one and he's the one who says, here is the appropriate budget for this family.

So in terms of just quick process, like I said, maybe two to 3 percent of the people

who apply, make it to the starting blocks.

And what we have to do is I have conversations with them, understand

motivation, understand what's their story.

I'll collect some quick numbers on them.

But more importantly, my broker will then get the actual paperwork

and really do a validation of Is what they said, is that true?

What is their real credit score?

What are their paystubs look like?

What are their tax returns look like?

So then we do the hardcore.

Okay, what is their financial story?

And if there's stuff that we see in there, we want to talk to them to help have

them explain to us and make sure that we feel comfortable with that explanation.

I'm never going to do a deal unless I feel comfortable because

if I don't feel comfortable, I cannot give it to an investor.

So I need to feel good.

My broker needs to feel good.

He'll give me a limit.

He'll say, okay, in three years, these guys can safely afford this number.

Assuming rates are at this point at this level and we're going to do the

2 percent extra for the stress test.

So we know what we're working with.

So it takes a long time for a tenant buyer to get to that level.

But going back to your point, yeah, I want my broker to set

those guidelines and then also tell them, here's what you need to do.

Repair your credit score and then I'll talk to him about, okay, what's

the right way to structure this?

Who's on title and how do we do this so that in three years, in four

years we get to the finish line.

It's an easy transaction.

Yeah, no, it makes sense.

So I think from all of that, I understand some of the process.

I think we got the profile of a tenant buyer, it's somebody with good income

that's trying to improve their credit.

I'm assuming like new immigrants, divorcees.

Anyone like that and then even young couples or families that, they're

trying to stay, they're trying to pay off student loans and they're

trying to build that down payment.

So to me, that's the, say your profile of tenant buyer in your situation.

So what is the profile of the investor?

Cause a lot of these are investors listening right now.

So how do let's get into the profile of an investor and let's get into how

does an investment work when they're actually investing in this type

of thing.

So the profile for investor for rent or grow homes, or even

for rent or own in general is someone who wants to be passive.

So number one is they're not looking for hands on management.

They don't want to be tinkering at the house.

Literally.

They want to say here is some money in three years.

Give me more money back.

And over the course of those three years, give me a bit of cashflow, but I don't

want to hear anything about this house.

I don't want a tenant ever to call me.

You let me know if there's something I need to know, but I expect

this to be pretty, my easiest investment for the next three years.

So that's really how we try and tailor.

This is because our investors are looking for that experience.

They don't want to deal with tenants, toilets, any of those things.

They literally are saying, Hey, take my money, give me more money back.

In terms of who those types of investors are, there's a

lot of first time investors.

Where they want to get involved in real estate, but they don't

necessarily feel like they have the knowledge to, to buy and hold.

And they don't want to they don't want to jump into the buy and hold and the

risks associated with that and the tenant management and the property

management and all that stuff, but they want involved in real estate.

However, we have a couple of investors who have two or three properties and

they just, but they have extra money.

They don't want to take on more responsibility of managing the thing,

but they want to deploy more money into real estate and they love the

idea of 20 percent annual return.

So we actually do work with a couple of people who also have.

Some buy and holds, but they just wanted to diversify for me

as an investor in rent to own.

It's honestly been the easiest money we've ever made in real estate.

Not necessarily the most money, but the easiest.

So if you think about the return like we, so we promised 20 percent annual.

If I compare that to my buy and holds that I have.

If I did the spreadsheet ahead of time, I might be able to get 25, 28, 20, 30

percent if I, with certain appreciations, cashflow and all that stuff.

If I bought a good house, putting good tenants and ran the numbers with like

occupancy at 8 percent or whatever it is you might be able to get 30%.

What I've learned as a buy and hold investor for the last 10 years is

it always these unexpected expenses and there's always stuff that comes

up and that's what always, when I do my taxes at the end of the year.

Like where did that 2, 000 come from?

What is this?

And I have to go look at the receipt.

I'm like, Oh yeah, the air conditioner cong to replace that.

There's always a stuff that happens.

And so the nice thing about being a rental investor.

Nothing happens.

The whole idea of a rent to own is it's predictable for the investor,

predictable for the tenant buyer.

We know the price of the house today.

We know that what that price is going to be in three years time when they buy it.

We know how much cashflow every month that investor is going to get

because we, the mortgage is locked in.

It's always a fixed mortgage.

We do.

The only other two variables that we have to worry about

are insurance and property tax.

Three year fixed.

Is that usually the terms?

So yeah, we often do, yes, we often do three year fixed and then if

we need to extend the deal to a fourth year, then we'll do that.

But typically we look for three year fixed.

And so the nice thing about rent to own is everything is generally predictable.

There's just no, if we do a proper home inspection before

the purchase, and we always do a conditional purchase on inspection.

So then I have my inspector who I trust, he goes in and he knows.

What I'm looking for.

I don't want any major expenses in the next three, five years.

Check the roof, check the water, check the foundation, check all

the things that are going to be.

The pain in the butt things to solve for.

So we've, sometimes we've said no because of an inspection.

I think we,

but we Go ahead.

No, sorry.

It glitched a little bit.

I heard pain in the butt.

Yeah.

So basically going back to the theme of predictability, we want to make

sure the house we buy is a good house.

That's not going to incur issues in the next three to five years.

And that's the whole point of the inspection.

So if you can remove all those major issues, You remove major expenses and so

that's what allows us for predictability.

So I want to

go back and so going back to the 20 percent return to the investor.

The reason I'm so I can't say I guarantee 20%.

Simply because sorry, I'm noticing Wi Fi issues.

Thanks to one of the I think it's me.

Can you hear me, Paul?

Can

you hear me?

I think I might have lost you for a second.

Hey Paul, is that better?

Hey Paul, is that better?

We're gonna take a pause.

Paul, can you hear me?

Paul,

can you hear me?

You're back.

It's okay.

We'll edit it out.

We'll edit it out from where we were.

Do you know where we were?

Yeah.

That, Oh yeah.

I wanted to talk about the, what does a 20 percent look like?

And then you said you can't promise 20%, but then you, that's where it cut out.

Okay,

so I'm giving you 100 grand, then when you, the contract

starts, you're automatically giving a percentage of something per month,

that's cool, and then the end of it, you'll, at the end of the, whatever the

difference is at the end, that's when you're going to get a big payout, right?

Is that my understanding?

Okay,

perfect.

All right.

That makes sense.

And then in terms of reporting is there like a monthly, quarterly,

annually, what kind of I know these are handoff investors, but is there

like an email they're going to get?

How does that look?

It makes sense.

That's really cool.

So I think an investor is satisfied.

Now I'm thinking from the investor standpoint of all the

questions they would want to ask.

I think before we close, I want to hear some, I see something that for poker.

So I'm a poker player.

I used to play semi professional online tournaments for about four years or so.

Like I kinda.

Floated around Central America.

I lived in, I've lived in poker houses with some of the best in the world.

Literally.

And so I see that you like poker and your wife, you and your wife both play poker.

What kind of poker do you play?

Cause poker is a broad thing, right?

So I say, I'm.

Tournament poker, but the reason I bring it up is in front of me now,

I have a two cash tables set up because we're playing poker tonight.

So what kind of games do you play in terms of poker?

And it's investing, right?

So to me, poker and investing, that's what it is, yeah, what

kind of poker do you play?

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Oh, you paused again.

Come back.

Oh, great.

And we're getting into the good part.

So I could sit here and I'll wait and see if he, if he's frozen now, Peter.

But yeah, I could talk about poker forever.

It's something that I play a lot or I used to and yeah, it's all numbers.

It's math.

It's logic.

It's science.

And it's really closely related to real estate investing, right?

You're always hedging your bets.

You're always wanting more information.

You're always wanting to use that information against your opponents.

I like that you're not playing the house, like you're playing

the house and every other game.

That's why I don't play any other game, but I play poker

because I'm playing people.

And I know I can beat people.

It's the same thing with real estate investing.

I know that I have an edge over the market based on my strategies

the same thing with poker.

I'm going to keep going for a second while we wait for Peter.

He's going to reconnect.

But yeah, let's continue talking about poker, hedging bets, risk management,

property management, managing those chips is property management.

When to take risks, when not to take risks.

Winning small pots is like appreciation.

I think I podcast just on talking about how interconnected poker and investing is.

So yeah, if you're a poker player, if you're in the Windsor and Essex

County area reach out to me I have a friendly game yeah, that maybe

we could, I'd love to see some of these listeners in person if we can.

Also, I guess since we are waiting, I'll plug that LendCity investors

hub community where we do live events talking about let's run the number burrs.

We get every professional there is related to real estate investing.

We have special seminars on how lenders look at things, a lot of live webinars.

You can get involved.

Just DM me at turnkey McAlee for the link.

And yeah, so it's something, it's a, it's free for now.

We have 600 investors and it's growing every day.

In the next couple of months, we expect to hit to a thousand

investors across North America.

Why North America?

We do lending in all provinces, but we also do lending for

Canadians investing in the States.

So we can, if you're looking for properties in the U.

S., we can also take care of that for you.

And that's why we don't want an investor to not have to deal with us just

because of where they're investing.

If there was an investor that wanted to invest in Costa Rica and wanted

to figure out the finances, that's something I would figure out for them.

Because we are, we, our goal at LendCity is that no barriers

to where where lending is.

We will try to make sure we get you the best deals possible.

So I will pause And hope Peter joins back and yeah, so I just talked about

poker the whole time there, Peter and I I said, we're not going to pause.

I'm going to talk about post poker and how it's.

It's so relative to real estate investing.

I talked about risk management, property management, meaning many of your chips,

picking up small pots, making the right play understanding where your edges are.

I talked about insurance, talk to it's to me, poker is about

math, logic, and science.

And if you can tie all those together, I think real estate investing, I

thought, I was like, I think I could do a whole show just on poker and how

it relates to real estate investing.

And I think I have an edge in real estate investing over people based

on my strategies and how I apply it.

The same thing with poker.

If you do poker, like for poker, if me and you play, sure,

you might beat me one time.

But if we play a thousand times, that's where you're going to see a

big deviation in the results either good or bad, but that's what real

estate investing is too, right?

It's the more and more you do it the less and less risk you're going to

most likely, the variance will be less, but you, sorry, so we'll cut

off with you talking about poker.

You give me your swing on poker and Yeah, I totally agree.

I think one thing I had written down so I don't forget and I can still focus

on what you're saying is his mindset.

It's the mindset, that mindset you have.

So for me, when everyone says, Oh, like it was luck or I very rarely I can't

say never get emotional for poker or for investing, but it's very unlikely.

Again, I played 20, 000 games in one year, literally.

So it's, if you were to get emotional when you're paying,

I used to make 27 at one time.

So if you're getting emotional, you're gonna mess up.

And it, and then that, it will lead to, it compi compiles.

But I, I think mindset is important in both real estate and in poker.

But I don't see it as luck when I get it in on the, all my job is just to get

it in good and anything else, like it's.

Not many times, even if you get it in pre flop or even on the flop, there's

still always usually a 4 percent runner is still a 4 percent chance.

So to me that you think, Oh, it's 4%.

That's not much.

But is it like still one?

And what is the exact math on that board?

Yeah, one in 25 is still happening.

And then just going up 8 percent people, oh, it's only 8%.

Now you're at 1 in 12.

So it's still 1 in 12 times, 1 in 12 times.

And it's not just like it happened right then.

So it shouldn't happen the next day.

It's 1 in 12 every single time.

So it's, to me, I don't get mad when people win.

I get excited.

I honestly, that's my literally, I don't get excited when it's online,

because I can't see the people.

But if it's somebody that I see.

I actually get excited for him.

I'm never going to be like him or it's because I'm planning

to make the better decision.

I know over the long run, I'm taking all their money.

And if somebody wins, it's good.

Cause when I lose, I usually lose little.

When I went big and I usually went often.

So it's, you can't get mad at those things.

And I tied to real estate.

I don't make emotional decisions that like, I don't get emotional

when a tenant kicks in your wall or those are things that do not impact

me because my mindset is ready and aware that's a part of the game.

It's just a part of the game and the longer and the bigger and bigger.

So then, we're going to talk about your portfolio to close

it off in the next 10 minutes.

So I have 16 doors and when I get to 160 doors, all the little things

that it's just gonna be more and more things are going to happen.

And there's going to be no surprises.

All right.

And then you can't get emotional about it's I don't know if the four

agreements I live my life by the four agreements and don't make assumptions.

Don't take anything personally.

Don't take anything personally.

So like before I used to live in Toronto and I'd be in traffic and people giving me

the fingers and doing all screaming at me.

And I used to scream back and I used to like, Oh, and then I read the four

agreements and it changed my life.

And I realized like that person doesn't know me.

You don't know what that person went through.

They could have lost their whole family that week.

You don't know what they're going through.

They don't even know you.

So don't even take it personally.

It's not personal.

And too much, too many times, even that renter, you might think it's

personal too, cause it's your property and you've met them or whatnot.

I don't take actions of others personal.

And I think that's in poker and in real estate investing.

That is my advice to all the listeners.

When you're getting into the game after you've been into

it, you grow that thick skin.

But I think it's very important mindset and emotions.

Like poker is very important for real estate as

well.

Loser.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, no I totally agree.

How I learned poker is through asking questions to poker players.

And it's really cool that in investing, it's the same way, right?

You look at people who, not saying that you're going to do what they've told

you, like how they've done it, but at least you have that kind of that point.

And I find investors definitely very open to talk about their

trials and tribulations.

And like having those conversations with people who's

been through it very valuable.

So it's really cool that you've done it from the rent to own perspective.

I've done it myself in terms of my birds.

I'm a bird guy.

I love birds.

So I've reached out and I've done the same thing on my journey.

So for your portfolio we have five minutes.

What kind of portfolio do you have?

Where do you like to be?

I guess right now in this current market yeah, do you want it?

We can finish with that.

This year will be change.

It will change this

year.

Yes.

Yeah, so the U.

S.

lending is really cool.

I've actually just done my first couple in the states.

So we do U.

S.

lending.

I think, I don't know if you've seen it on there.

As long as you're Canadian investing in the states, we

can do lending in all states.

And so for myself, I'm the same way.

I'm headed to the states.

I went to Dallas about two or three months ago.

I'm planning to check out Houston.

So I went Dallas, Fort Worth, looking at properties.

I just need to put my boots on the ground too.

I've done a lot of research, but I need to put boots on the ground.

So Dallas and Fort Worth I'm going to Houston, Austin, and go into Florida.

Any basically Florida, as long as it's not outside of kind of the hurricane.

where you can still get insurance and I get, less risk.

And then I even heard of Ohio and even Georgia.

Like those are like different places that I'm looking at myself,

but I get what you're saying.

It is a lot to set up.

We do have, I think on our, our on our investors hub, we've

had a company that does it.

I don't want to drop their name here.

You can contact me and I can give you the information, but

yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

They provide a lot of value, right?

You can find those companies that they've done the research.

They, the reason that I like this one particular company is they have

property management set up in almost every, in all the states I just said.

So that is invaluable to me.

Yeah.

I think it just starts with an ass.

Yes.

So it's, yeah same line.

We can say they're lying.

So they, the reason that I like them so much is because the biggest

thing is when you buy a property, I could, sure I can get a realtor.

I have investor focused realtors in a lot of States already establishing, and I'm

actually going to get them onto the hub and they're providing me so much value.

I don't see realtors here providing as much value as some of those American

investor focused It's realtors, like they're providing me all the numbers.

They're providing me like pages and pages of great information to make

decisions on investment properties.

But furthermore to that's not the struggle.

I can get my own properties.

I can find them, but then it's like, when you need to renovate them, who are

you getting and then placing the tenant?

That's a whole nother thing.

And then maintaining it.

And so to me having no, the investors there, the lendings there, cause

we had the lending, but then.

The property management to me is a missing that makes me the most, that's to me.

That's the most risk.

Yeah, I live downstream.

Yes, it's a great, it

makes sense.

I think it's a good places to start to close is it's

not always what the money is.

Why are we doing it?

We're doing it for a lifestyle, right?

It's a lifestyle.

If you tell me that I got to work 23 hours a day for all the money in

the world, I'm not going to do it.

It's just, what's the life.

Yeah.

So it makes total sense.

And I feel like in the beginning for you, beginning investors,

you want to do everything.

And I used to want to do everything as well.

And then ask you after you get seasons, you realize that it's actually costing

you more than it's, I used to do my own painting and I have a good story.

So I thought I was a good painter and I still think I'm a good painter.

But then I, one time I got new drywall, new place and I was like,

I'm gonna, I'm gonna save money here and I'm gonna save 3, 000.

And I'm going to paint myself.

If I count how many hours I spent painting, and then I, how many

roller marks I put on that brand fresh new ceiling, and then I call

the guy, I was like, how do I get those roller marks out of these?

He's you ruined that new drywall.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

And so I said, I'll never paint, if I paint, I'll paint still, but I will

never paint new drywall ever again.

And so you realize that your time is worth money and you've realized that I can tell.

And it's those decisions of, Oh, it's going to cost you 10 hours.

You need to have, how much is it really costing you and how much is your time

worth and is it worth you having a sore back for the next month or two.

So it's cool that you know that you want to invest in the States

and that's how you're doing it.

Definitely considered the same thing.

But yeah, it's, so that's your direction for this year.

So Ontario, now you're going to you're still going wide though.

But if you go wide,

yes,

that's definitely, I agree.

That would be a good, I like that idea.

So it's.

Yes.

Yeah.

And I think with that is and I'll tell people, 'cause a lot of people are

coming to me right now about buying in the states and I'm usually, I'm

setting, the main thing I gotta do is set them up with a corp first, right?

So you need a corp before you buy.

You don't need, but you should.

98% of the time you should if you buy in your personal name,

you're gonna get double taxation.

Buying an investment property is a corp first.

And it needs to be set up correctly.

Where was I going with that?

The reason oh yeah.

Your credit.

So when you start a corp in the states, and I have a show on this in

the hub February 15th, about how to set up the corp, the steps that are

involved, how to set up the bank account and all of those types of things.

But, the reason that I bring it up is You start off automatically with

a 680 FICO when you open a corp.

So as a Canadian, you start a corp, you start off 680.

You're going to access to certain rates.

They're not going to be the best rates, but they'll be decent.

We'll find competitive product based on where you are.

But the main thing is after I have a client that's been

done it for a year and a half.

And now his FICO is up to 713, so over time you're building your FICO.

And so when you are willing to pull more triggers, even though you bought

a little property, your corporation is building its credit and which

will allow you to build your.

Higher FICO means lower rates and, let your money go further for you.

So I like the strategy.

I don't know if you've thought about it that way, but it's not just

about building the reserve of cash.

It's also building the, your FICO, which allows your cash to work even more.

Exactly.

Exactly.

It makes lending a lot easier.

Yes.

Yes.

So that's something to consider.

Peter, we're at time, but it was really nice to talk to you and connect.

Is there anything else you want to say to the investors who have held on this long?

How do they contact you?

Yeah,

thank you.

We will have the information in all of the descriptions in the

different platforms where that goes.

Thank you for joining.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you for listening.

And until next time on the wisdom lifestyle money show,

I'm signing off, Paul McAllister

cheers.