In this coherent episode, Stewart Ervin, President of Bracket Management, shares strategies to streamline your business growth. If you face chaos or doubt about scaling, you won't want to miss it.

You will discover:

- How to align sales and operations for smoother growth

- Why a 12-month forecast guides better deci

- How to embrace processes without losing your vision

This episode is ideal for for Founders, Owners, and CEOs in stage 4 of The Founder's Evolution. Not sure which stage you're in? Find out for free in less than 10 minutes at https://www.scalearchitects.com/founders/quiz

Stewart Ervin is the driving force behind Bracket Management, a premier Fractional CFO company. As a proven finance and operations executive, he brings structure, process improvement, and people development to make an impact. Stewart is a seasoned expert in the manufacturing industry with an impressive track record of helping businesses optimize their financial performance and strategic planning. Stewart's unique approach blends proven corporate results with a deep understanding of the challenges faced by many small businesses.

Want to learn more about Stewart Ervin's work at Bracket Management? Check out his website at https://www.bracketmgmt.com/ or connect with him on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/stewartervin/

Mentioned in this episode:

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Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once again to the Start, Scale and Succeed podcast, the only podcast that grows with you through all seven stages of your journey as a founder. And you might be sitting there having one of those days, or if we're honest, like one of those weeks or even years, where you wonder if growing your business is even worth it. Sure, you could bring in more revenue, but the work that it would take, the frustration that you would have, the problems that seem to pop up all over the place,

And just the exhaustion of doing all this doesn't feel like it's worth it. If so, you're not alone. It's actually a problem that every successful founder faces. And it's also one that you don't have to face alone. And that's what brings us to our guest today, whose name is Stuart Irvin. And he's here with us to help us understand the true nature of these problems and how we can turn it all around. Now, Stuart is the driving force behind Bracket Management, a premier fractional CFO company.

And as a proven finance and operations executive, he brings structure, process, improvement, and people development to make an impact. Stuart is a seasoned expert in the manufacturing industry with an impressive track record of helping businesses optimize their financial performance and strategic planning. Stuart's unique approach blends proven corporate results with a deep understanding of the challenges faced by many small businesses. He's here with us today. Stuart, you...

You guys have a really unique way of bringing structure to growing businesses. And there's some founders who are listening today who are wondering if that growth is even worth it. So before we even get into like how you would grow your business, what some of these problems are.

What would you say to someone who's in that moment right now, just struggling to wonder if this is all worth

Yeah, it is totally worth it. You know, I deal with clients. Most of my clients that I have today have somewhat hit the proverbial ceiling per se. And this actually is something that they ask all the time. I just don't know that it's worth it. And, you know, I've seen many, many times how thankful people are when they kind of make it over that, over that heel, over that hurdle. I would just set a client yesterday and he was like, I just don't know. You know, he's, he's,

He's got a great culture, he's got great people, but he's starting to realize that the people he has are not the individuals who are gonna take him there. And he's like, man, I just don't know if it's worth it. And I just keep telling, you were gifted this, be a good steward of what was given to you and trust the process that when you get to the other side, you're gonna be like, holy smokes, this is so worth it. The flip side of that is, it seems painful, but if it's done methodically and correctly, it's such a smooth transition.

that it's really not incredibly disruptive. And all of sudden you're to look up and go, man, we really are not doing anything like we used to do. Or, you know, a year later we are so much better than we were. And it's, you know, again, it looks daunting from this side of the, you know, the situation. But again, one day you look up and go, man, that's, that's crazy. We're nothing like we were.

It's really wild because it creates this interesting communication challenge that when I meet someone in this stage, it's like, I can't actually tell you what it's going to be like a year from now, not because I don't see it, but because you won't believe it, you'll think I'm a liar. So it really can be so much better. And one of the things that happens is that

Yeah.

That's right.

Financially, we run into challenges that we're just not used to experiencing, right? Profitability just seems to be so much harder. And when it doesn't move the way that we want, it's so much harder to change, or at least it feels like it is. And you have these people problems coming up. And one of the main challenges is that there's not a main challenge. There's like a thousand of them. So...

That's right.

That's right.

That's correct.

When you start working with someone, again, who's feeling this way, but has the faith to know that it can be better, how do you help them to really start to understand what needs to be fixed and in what order?

Yeah, so we kind of entered into a business and we want to first understand, we going to come in in a triage? Like is this company in really big trouble and they don't realize it or is this company healthy and they just kind of need to put systems in place? And based off of that approach, it would vary in regards to what we're going to do. So we do a variety of assessments and in one of our assessments, we've analyzed the financials, we analyze the strategy and the operational execution of the business.

it's about 100 question assessment and it will 100 % pinpoint, hey, there's a problem here, we need to focus in on that. So if it's a triage, it's a recovery mode, it's all hands on deck, let's make this thing happen. If it's not a recovery situation, then there's a variety of assessments we go through, of which one, I have a Lean Six Sigma Black Belt. And so one thing we do is we'll map out their core processes and it normally takes about a day and a half and in that,

their eyes are just open because traditionally the biggest driver of their frustration will stand right out on paper. And that'll be our jumping off point. So, okay, this is the biggest heartache you're having right now. So let's focus in on that. 99 times out of a hundred, it's a system issue. And so you start working towards putting the system in place. And a lot of times you'll fix one of the most major issues of the company and everything else starts to fall into place. And so again, it varies. So if the company is in triage mode and we get it recovered,

Then the very next thing we do is, okay, let's map these core processes and figure out what is the number one driver of all the chaos in your business. And we just methodically work our way through it.

Yeah. One of the things that I really appreciated about your approach as I was researching this episode and you even mentioned it in your answer here is this combination of the financial aspect, the strategy aspect and the operations aspect. Because typically folks in our profession will really come at that with one, maybe two at the most. And so you'll have folks and it's, know, to a hammer, everything's a nail. You know, to a lot of CFOs,

That's right.

every problem's a financial problem, right? But oftentimes at this stage, sure, there are some things that they should be doing from a financial perspective, but like you're saying, so many times it's structural. It's a process change that needs to happen. How was it that you came to that revelation and what challenges do we run into when we try and treat those as three separate functions?

That's right.

Absolutely.

Yeah, so the biggest thing you have to recognize is they're all interrelated. So on the finance side, it's just the result of the activities that's occurred. I mean, it's the end result. You can look and say, yes, we won, we lost, so on and so forth. So it's the result of what happens on the operations side, right? As far as if your operations is out of control or off in the ditch, your financial results are not gonna work. As well as if your operations are out of control and not working, you're not focused on strategy.

because all you're worried about is how can I execute today? So I've recognized enough to know that there's gonna be a point where your operations is working and then you'll be like, crap, I've gotta go grow this thing. And if you haven't focused on strategy, now you're gonna be in even more trouble than you were. So it's all interrelated. And for me, how it's worked, I was blessed to start at the very bottom of my family business at a very young age. I worked my way all the way through the top and I mean to the top and I just, learned the system.

I learned to play book and I saw how everything was interrelated. Fast forward 15 years, I was put into a position where I was in supply chain role, working on business turnaround for working in these companies that weren't supporting our programs. I just continued to learn and grow that. And then I really started to recognize how everything was interrelated. And so then I got the opportunity to turn a company.

Mmm.

And at this point I was, you I had started in operations, I have an MBA in finance and so I started putting all the pieces together, learned all the accountant functions over last 20 years and just started to see how it would work. so in one of the business turnarounds, I was over both finance and ops and I started seeing how, okay, if you do this, that's that impact and just started putting the pieces together. And then we just built a formula and just started really to recognize that if you do A, B happens, if you tweak this, turn that knob, that happens.

And then we just put the entire system in place.

Yeah, and it's the interrelatedness that's so important. It's actually getting them in sync that I think is the root problem because you can say, yeah, we're focused on operations, but if you don't have your financials in order, you don't have your report card. You can't tell if it's actually working or not, and you certainly can't diagnose it. So I love that bringing together of those two realities. You've mentioned a couple of times on here, and I think...

That's right.

Absolutely.

particularly for those founders who are out there and they're listening and they're learning and they listen to podcasts like this, most of them would say, yes, we need processes, right? But that doesn't actually mean anything. Like go do processes. What does that mean? So I'm wondering if you could help us figure out what are some of the most common processes that you see businesses missing at this stage?

That's wrong. Yeah.

So the most common process gaps that I see is really the connection between sales and operations. So it's a feast or famine in many, many cases. So you somewhat hit on it right out of the box, right? So first thing we do is we make sure their financials are accurate. So we understand our baseline and we understand our need. Secondly, we do a 12 month forecast. It could be very rough that we need some guiding path, something to shoot towards. Once that forecast is created, then we look and say, okay, where's the business at today?

what's the gaps and how do we need to drive our sales team? And we immediately implement a sales and operations plan and say, okay, I'm gonna go sell this, can you support it? Because for so, in so many cases, either operations chaos is pulling down the sales or the lack of sales is slowing down operations. And so to try to get those two to work in sync is critical. And we do all of that, again, from the basis of what is a financial forecast and financial plan tell us. And it's really a lot of times it's to break down the communication.

put communication plans in place and make sure we're all on check. There's checks and balances. Sales isn't overselling that with the ops guys can't produce, you know, so on and so forth. And so it's just, putting those initially just some type of a guideline or a path forward on financials and then sitting down and just having conversations to try to ease, you know, the, ebbs and flows or the really the peaks and valleys that you see a lot of times these small businesses struggle with and just trying to get into an operating rhythm. It's the number one thing I say you,

got to get a business into rhythm. And if you're dealing with the peaks and valleys and something's broken 99 times out of 10, I mean out of a hundred, it's the communication side of things. And so it's really important to get your sales and ops teams together and come up with a plan that both agree upon.

Yeah, I love the language around that, this idea of a 12 month forecast because many times folks will come in and say, you need a budget. And I found a couple of things to be true of budgets. One is that there's a lot of shame around not having one, right? And it can feel kind of overwhelming. And it's a skill that needs to be developed over time, right? Your first budget is guaranteed to be wrong. It was just hands down. Now, if you bring in somebody who can help, it can be a lot better. And so,

different.

bringing in some fractional CFO help, something like that is a great idea at this point. But you use the word forecast, a 12 month forecast. I'm interested in why you chose that word and what makes a great 12 month forecast.

Yeah, so a forecast for us, what I normally try to say is, listen, we need in the next 30 days, we need a 90 % certainty as to what our revenue is gonna be. I need a 75 % certainty what the next 60 days are gonna look like and a roughly 50 % certainty what the next 90 days are gonna look like. Again, that just gives us a guide. It allows us to make decisions in the short term, so on and so forth. The beauty of a forecast is it's a guide that when you get to the end of it, you say, how well did I perform to that?

and what do I need to do to change it to get better as we go? So it's not a set it and forget it. It's a living breathing process. Again, now we do develop a 12 month plan that doesn't change, but the forecast allows us to always compare back to the plan, but we're making adjustments sometimes daily, but at a minimum every 30 days, we're adjusting based off of what actually happened to our plan, against our plan and against our forecast. And again, it gives you,

Right.

Grace, because to your point, the first time you do a forecast, it's gonna be wrong. The first time you do a plan, it's gonna be wrong. The kicker is making sure you look at what actually happened and then take actionable results, mean, actionable changes to make sure your results come more in line in the future.

Yeah, yeah, it's so good. I love that point on it being a living document because if you try and do one at the beginning of the year and come back and check it out at the end of the year, it's not all that helpful. It's actually very frustrating. I wanna talk about what could kind of be the elephant in the room here and that is many times our financial problems are decision-making problems, right? We're focused on too many things. We're focused on the wrong things.

Mm-hmm.

you we're running all over the place. And that can bring us to a really hard reality that one of the biggest problems at this stage is happening between the ears of the founder, right? And so one of the things that I'll see, and you know, my clients will laugh at this because it's true, they'll bring someone in like you, they'll say, yes, we need systems and processes. I'm 100 % in support of that. But what they mean by that is,

Let's run.

Everyone else needs systems and processes. Don't put those on me. So how have you seen founders who aren't generally the most system and process oriented people, how have you found them to effectively embrace that without losing themselves in the process?

Yeah.

Yeah, that's, so I would just, again, say some of the, the guy I spoke with yesterday, we were having the same type of conversation. He was like, I think I'm just going to hire somebody to run this business for me. And, you know, I'm just, I think they would do a better job. I'm like, yeah, but you would lose the control that, I want to go buy this. I want to go do this. I was like, you turn your reins over to someone you're going to, you're going to hate life. You've more than you do today. So, um, I really normally try to combat that with education and training. Right. So a big part.

of what I do today is really trying to train the business owner to think like a business owner and not, know, again, they had to make decisions. This is going to be a lifestyle business, or am I going to try to take this to the next level? If they're truly going to take this to the next level, then it's an, it's an education that has to happen. In many cases, the guys I work with, they've never seen anything beyond where they are today. They've only worked in their own business. So every dollar over whatever revenue dollar they have today,

is a new experience for them. And so I paint a lot of pictures. I paint a lot of, if you do this, this is what's going to happen. I do a lot of, if you don't do this, this is what's going to happen. And just I teach and teach and teach because they need to understand the why. So I spend so much time doing that so they can understand the why. Because the worst thing to do is they can agree with you just to get you to shut up and move on. And then down the road, they, they're off in another, you know, another arena and they have no clue where their business is even at. So.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's really powerful that that decision on which way we're going to go, right? Because to get out of what you're feeling right now, you do have to move one way or the other. And I've found it's important to help folks recognize, hey, one's not inherently better than the other. It's really a question of which one do you want to do? And then which one are you willing to sacrifice to achieve? Because in either direction, you might be sacrificing extreme growth.

Just educate, educate, educate, educate.

That's right.

to have a lifestyle business, know, not one to one, but there's different parameters there. Or you might be sacrificing your visionary freak flag to really scale a business. And I love that you approach that. And I think for anyone listening who's feeling that way, a big part of why you might be stuck is because you're trying to hold both at the same time and it doesn't.

Absolutely. I see a lot of guys, try to, they teeter on both sides of it. And it's like, you've got to make a call. You cannot continue to sit on the fence and say, I do want to do this or I don't want to do this. You got to make a decision and go. And many times that's hard. so, particularly because a lot of times, you know, these businesses may, they may be at 10 million, but these individuals and processes that got them to 10 million, it's not what's going to take them to 20, 25.

Mm-hmm.

and there's a purging that's got to happen. There's a behavior change that's got to happen. But what I normally try to say is, listen, granted that the people may change, but you're doing a process today, albeit it's incorrect. All I'm trying to get you to do is do this process this way that is more correct. It's still a process. And so a lot of times people think, if you put processes in place, it will make this company too rigid. It'll strain, like you said, the creativity.

Yeah.

Oh, that becomes still and corporate. No, you have a process today. It's just off centered. And so let's try to bring it back. So again, it's really trying to see to the point of look, corporate is corporate, but it doesn't have to be corporate. And then explain the difference. So you're here, this is where we're going to go. And this is the result of doing so. So it's just a lot of communication. It's a lot different. Again, if you're a W2 guy going in and turning the company around, you're the guy and you just make it happen.

Mm-hmm.

And so when you're trying to be a coach, it's so much of an emotional play with the business owner because at the end of the day, it is on them. All I can do is kind of welcome to the, you know, welcome through the path here, but at the of the day, he's got to make the call. And so there's a lot of education discussion that goes on behind closed doors, just trying to make sure that again, the business owner really knows that what's involved in this process.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And being able to make that decision, I know when I was there, I got stuck in that spot, not making that decision for a couple of years actually. And in the words of my great father, he said, you either need to shit or get off the pot. It's one or the other. He totally called me out on it. And I couldn't complain after that because I realized it was my own fault. there's a lot that goes into doing it right afterwards. I was fortunate to get some amazing help during that.

Yeah, now we're... Yeah. Yeah.

window once I made my choice. think that's really important. So Stuart, there's this question that I ask everyone. I'm very interested to see what you would say to it. But the question is this, what is the biggest secret you wish wasn't a secret at all? What's that one thing you wish everybody watching or listening today knew?

Absolutely.

Get it.

that there's options, right? So I've spent 15 years trying to turn businesses around, right? And you walk into these companies and a lot of times people have reached their wits end and they're ready to give up. The beauty about today's world is there's fractional executives in nearly every discipline of your business. So if you're struggling with sales, there's a fractional sales guy out there. If you're struggling with ops, fractional COOs. And so there are experts who can come in who are very affordable, who can tailor their options and opportunities.

for you in your state of your business. so, so many times people just give up too soon and there's options out there. And so just know that there's always an option. There's always an option. Yeah.

Yeah, so good, so good. Stuart, there's some folks listening that love to help someone who can pull all these different parts of their company together and help a founder make sense of it. Where can they find out more about you and the work that you guys do?

Yes, you can check out our website, it's bracketmgmt.com. This bracket management short. You can find me on LinkedIn, it's where I'm probably most active. Again, phone's on me all the time. Just reach out via direct message and I'd love to help anybody who needs some assistance.

Brilliant. Stuart, thank you so much for being on, for anyone listening, we'll put those links in the show notes for you so you can get right to them. But yeah, it was just a privilege and honor having you here today. Great conversation, ton of truth in there. Yeah, it fantastic stuff. And for those of you watching and listening, you know your time and attention mean the world to us. I hope you got as much out of this conversation as I know I did, and I cannot wait to see you next time. Take care.