“This is the platform to continue telling someone’s story”

It was experiencing personal loss that led Andy Jones to a profound career change. 

After ending a successful career as a film producer Andy found a new role as a funeral celebrant which allows him to weave the final chapters of people's stories with dignity and depth. 

Business psychologist and Executive Coach, Hazel Showell and Andy discuss the art of crafting meaningful farewells, the importance of storytelling in honouring a life, and the personal growth that comes from embracing change.

This episode of ‘Endings’ will show you how a life amidst endings can teach us the true value of living.

If you want to help whilst navigating a career change Hazel has the perfect thing for you. which you can access on her website: justhazel.co.uk. 

You can check out Hazel’s accompanying blog here

Hazel has a 'Different Futures' worksheet just for listeners of this episode you can find that here.

More from Hazel…

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Andy: Thanks. But it's not an ending. Actually, this [00:00:30] is the platform from which to continue telling someone's story.

Hazel: Andy Jones ended his career in TV and film to become a humanist funeral celebrant. His story is one of unexpected career change and finding something that, well, just clicks. Now Andy is dealing with endings every day.

But first, let's go back to the beginning.

Andy: It almost always involved travel, so I was away quite a lot, like several times a year. And if I wasn't away filming or on production, I was probably away five or six times a year pitching projects.

Hazel: He went from being freelance to setting up an indie film company. And the work was still coming in.

What do you do? I run an in house video unit for an international NGO. Oh, now I don't. Now I run a small independent production company who make films for the whole international development sector. Oh, and occasionally we sell bits of our stuff to Channel 4 or the news.

Hazel: Andy's commitment and the contacts he built up Landed him a gig that took even him by surprise.

Hazel: Despite years of constant work and career success, something wasn't working.

Hazel: At this point, Andy knew he was keen to do something else. But it was the death of a friend and colleague that presented him with an unlikely new career path.

And the guy leading it just sort of, the words were fine, but the, the kind of, there were, there was very little of, of my friend's character. [00:04:00] Essence reflected in the service and this came off the back of having been to another funeral service a few weeks before that for somebody else that I knew less well, but again, just felt like I was a bit rubbish and having also previously been to good funerals where everyone present had come away with this kind of really supercharged sense of the importance of life and [00:04:30] living it all just seemed to coalesce in this slightly drunken train journey home that had a point, on the train journey, where I looked at Ellie and said, I could have done better than that. And she looked at me knowing exactly what I meant going. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing and actually thinking you might be quite good at that. I think you should look into it because you've been saying for ages that you want to do something different.

Hazel: Yeah.

And, um, so began to think about what that might feel like or be like, and read up a bit and went, yeah, [00:05:30] okay. That looks really good. Yeah. Maybe one day. So how do you go about becoming, you know, if you want to be a funeral celebrant as I did, you need to meet recently, bereaved family. And that's not that easy. So there's a whole other step in the process, which in my case was about meeting some funeral directors who [00:06:00] thought that the kind of service that I might be able to lead, stress might because at this point it's an unknown because nobody actually knows because I haven't actually done it, might be something that families that they're helping look after Might want so there's that leap of faith required to get from saying I want to do it This is something I want to do and believe I could be good at To doing a training course where [00:06:30] you feel like you have the confidence and some of the skills and learn a bit from you know

Hazel: You know the very few rules

Andy: Yes.

Yeah.

Hazel: Was there a point where you thought, actually, hang on, I can do this. I am good enough for this to be a career.

Andy: Oh, totally. A lot after the first one,

Hazel: really

But at the time looked at some of the bigger organizations, looked at the humanist society, realized that I was a humanist. And it was quite interesting having a name to put to things you believed in. Yeah. Oh gosh. All right. I didn't know that. Oh, I'm a humanist. So then you sign up and did my humanist training.

Hazel: It's a really interesting balance.

Andy: It's about all about how you do it without it being in any way about you, because it has to be about someone else and about everyone else recognizing the other person that they knew. So it's really interesting sort of combination of skills.

Andy: Wow. Okay. So on the one hand, I'm still capable of Making [00:09:30] bad decisions and not being particularly good at managing certain situations or elements of a job while still being able to really enjoy it. That's one thing. But. I have, it's such a huge question, Hazel, because I think it's only since I've been doing the funeral work [00:10:00] that I've also self diagnosed as neurodiverse, so I've got a really classic set of ADHD symptoms, really classic.

I guess one of the things I could really certainly say is how, without it being in either case, either in my previous career as a producer or in this career as a celebrant, whilst neither of them are about the money, the money makes a huge difference. And one of the things I hadn't imagined was how much I would [00:11:00] love the feeling of just of doing a day's work and then getting paid for it.

Oh my goodness. Yes. What a, what a utter shapeshifter that was, because that was becoming so rare in my film work. And now, I still do maybe, I don't know, probably about 20 days worth, I think, last year, of kind of film consultancy or media consultancy. And I've done the odd little radio series and things like that.

Hazel: Well, it's being very clear, isn't it? That it might be something that people would say, Oh, to have the chance to go around the world and make these amazing programs, but it is a job. It is a job and deserves to be given the same respect in terms of that you can make a living from it. But I also recognize that it can be incredibly painful. Cause I, [00:12:00] I talk a lot about identity on endings and it can be very painful to sort of step away from that. I am a producer too. I'm a celebrant and I'm, I am intrigued of how it felt for you.

And having done my first service and the fee, the feeling that I got afterwards was, [00:13:00] um, A huge rush, and there's a huge, you know, obviously you've stored up all this kind of nerves and anxiety about before you do your first one, and just knowing that it had gone well, because you know, you can just tell, even though there were a couple, you know, there were, there were technical stuff that hadn't quite like it went massively over time, which To, you know, real

Hazel: a learning point

But there was a really good reason why that happened and it wasn't completely just my, my fault, but, um, that feeling of realizing the different parts of me that had become. that had been used. So the, the performing part, the, the storytelling part, the listening part, the empathy part, the helping part, all these different bits that like came alive in a really, really short space of [00:14:00] time.

Hazel: t A wo week deadline, that's it. Wow. Ish, yeah, sometimes three. And bearing in mind what you've said is, you know, you've noticed the difference between, uh, those funerals that are really good and like I say, allow people to connect to the essence. I was just [00:15:00] wondering if you've got any other sense of what does make a really good end to someone's story.

Andy: There's a lot to it. One of the things is actually, I think, about acknowledging that while that service is in some ways an ending,

Hazel: Yes.

Andy: It's an ending of a, generally this is a, coincides with the point of either burial or cremation.

And it's, it could be anything from just how particular they were about the way you put your knife back in the butter to something really, really important about how they never got over the loss of a stillborn child that they'd never talked about or whatever, you know, that,

Because I think, you know, when people are alive, they tend to, uh, self edit what they want people to know. So I always think, you know, uh, have you ever, have you ever got that balance? Not quite right.

Hazel: Yeah.

Andy: Because what happened in this situation was there was the first few rows who everyone, that's hilarious. And then everyone, and then you could see further, further, further back. It went, there was people going, that's where my lawnmower went.

And the one you've chosen that you seem very good at is being a celebrant, which is, uh, it's, it's a fascinating journey, but something new started. for something to end. Um, and I think that's the [00:19:30] bit about, you know, helping families to navigate something like that. And from my perspective, I know what it takes to hold other people's pain.

How did you learn to do that? Or where do you think that skill comes from in you?

I'd be, I'd love to know more [00:20:30] about that, but I know, I know that.

Hazel: Well, you know, this is also a conversation. So I think part of my work as a, uh, a coach and, and I, um, I'm looking at family systems. It's one of Yeah. So when you're looking at what could be. intergenerational trauma. And where, you know, there's lovely phrase they say where emotions flow through families till someone's prepared to feel it.

So maybe I need to get myself some distance. That's the joy. As a coach, I get [00:21:30] supervision. Um, I've been to know what your equivalent of supervision is, where you almost the vent, the pain stuff that you need to not carry because actually it isn't yours and know what is yours and you go and deal with it but you've checked it at the door you've not put it on the table it's saying actually that's my stuff and i'll you can trust me to keep it my stuff

Hazel: No.

Andy: When I was training, I remember one of my, Mentors, trainers, said that he never leads a funeral at which he would like to be a mourner.

Hazel: Ah, okay.

But someone I knew and my son went, but Dad, isn't the whole reason you got into this because you went to Cyn's funeral and said, I could have done better than that. So how can you not now do better ? Yeah, that's a good point. Thank you. 13-year-old son. Yeah. [00:23:00] and yet now though, knowing with a bit more experience that there's a way of helping. Like, like I couldn't do that for my inner circle, but I could help advise or could help make sure that process was done well without necessarily having to take the whole thing.

And if there are people listening to this who are in the process of thinking about or needing to organize a funeral - tips, advice,

Andy: don't rush.

Hazel: Okay.

Once the doctor just not. [00:24:30] rushing to have them taken away because you might want to have that time thinking about where you want things to happen. Burials and cremations can only happen in certain places, but that's only part of the process and part of the funeral farewell process. You can make as individual as you want.

Hazel: Oh, that's really helpful. Thank you. So, yeah, how's, how's the, how's the future looking now?

Andy: Probably, probably, probably at some stage. I started thinking about what the next logical step. Might be and I'm quite curious about how funerals are going to change in the foreseeable future and they've already Let's say 30 years ago. There would have been a handful of humanist funerals, but not very many compared to now When you think I've also, it's, this isn't a [00:26:00] job, but it's a thing. Um, started something called the dead good film club where we, we had one last night actually, and basically get people together. And the first rule of dead good film club is that you do talk about death.

There you go. So it's, it's, it's not like fight club where you don't talk about,

Hazel: you can talk

And, and there's definitely something about standing up with, in some ways, a final word, even if it's not a final word on someone else's life that can't [00:27:00] help but make you contemplate what the final word on your life might be from someone else or what the words may be. So

Hazel: that's profound. Thank you so much, its been really good to talk to you.

I think I want something else is how to make some of those difficult choices. The first thing is to figure out what you might be able to do next. In my time coaching all sorts of people, I've discovered the very best tool for deciding what you might want to do next or [00:28:00] finding what you might want to do next is really low tech.

And the challenge is to be able to leave that stuff behind, but think what good from that do I want to take forward with me? And you start to build that pattern of all the things that work, all the things you want to take [00:29:00] forward into your future that you've learned from the past. And the kind of teams you might thrive in, where you might flourish, the cultures that supported you.

And then, when you finished, Put it to one side, give it time. A phrase I use a lot is don't drink weak tea, let it brew. So you need time to reflect, to look at the patterns, to step back. And when you get a sense of, ah, so what job allows me to do all of the things I'm good at. And not the stuff I'm not.[00:30:00]

Andy discovered, for example, his main talent is telling untold stories. And although you wouldn't expect it, and no one would probably think of a celebrant as an alternative to, uh, an indie producer, actually it's perfect because it plays on his absolute strengths, his relationships and ability to form strong bonds with people, the ability to be trusted really quickly that he learned as he travelled all over the world, meeting different people.

And it, you create your own checklist in a way. So as you see new roles come up, you can look at your checklist and say, does this role allow me to do [00:31:00] all of the things I'm good at? All of the things I love that bring me joy in my life, that give me energy. And does it avoid or eradicate all the things in my life that basically kick the joy out of life that.suck my energy dry, that act as a mood hoover and make, leave me feeling really bad about myself. So you start to get a very different sense of what that role might be. And, and if you're modest, I'll give you a tip. You probably haven't built on your [00:31:30] strengths enough. You've probably played them down. So go and talk to somebody you really trust.

Ask them, what do you value about me? What do you think people enjoy about having me as a team member and colleague? Listen to what they say. Yes, it will probably make you blush or squirm. That's okay. But you know, CVs are a selling document after all. So make sure that all of the stuff that's really good about you goes into that CV.

I have got these skills, if required. But it's not what you're prioritizing. It's [00:32:30] not what you're focusing on. So I find I've helped people to make the most phenomenal transitions to roles they would never have expected with a simple set of two highlighter pens. And it is amazing what you can do. With just that.

I'm looking for where I can really flourish doing the things I'm really good at, and I can be honest about not so good at that, but you know what? My superpower is this, what I'm really good at is that, and to do it with real confidence as you look somebody in the eye, because you can believe in that, because it's true.[00:33:30]

It's based on years of research into endings of all kinds, and I won't ask for your details to get it if you need it. You can have it. Click the link in the show notes to download your worksheet now. Finally, if you know someone who might benefit from hearing about, having to end their career, to find the one they could love just as much or even more, Then do share this episode with them.