Dena Wiggins, Purpose Doula, joins Mystical Sisterhood today to share her life’s journey, wisdom and work setting this world on fire! Dena shares how she often didn’t understand what was happening for her in her life’s journey yet she learned how to decode synchronicities and give gratitude, even in the hardest of times. As she moved through her life’s experiences, she awoke to her gifts of guiding others to find their purpose and their soul’s expansion. You will feel Dena’s energy coming through over the airwaves and know that she is living her purpose on this Earth!

EPISODE TAKEAWAYS (what you’ll learn):

• The meaning of rear view wisdom
• How life speaks to you in sparks and nudges
• When your body holds on to unresolved hurts
• The importance of integrity and authenticity
• Human Design and Gene Keys integration into your life

About the Guest:

Dena Wiggins (she/her) is a Best-Selling Transformational Author, TEDx Curator, and MBA informed Purpose Doula. She wholeheartedly believes that purpose is the birthright of humanity and intentionally refers to all of humanity as Purpose Peeps. Dena’s sweet spot of service is to transform the many ways of living survival as a lifestyle into the many ways of living thriving lives of purpose. Dena is a certified purpose coach through Imperative, pioneers of fulfillment in what you do, and earned her MBA in International Strategic Management at the University of Maryland. She represents a bridge between the art and science of results that matter.

Find Dena Wiggins at:

https://denawiggins.com/about/

https://www.globalpurposeleaders.org/

http://www.soulfulfacilitator.com/

https://feelreal.net/

LinkedIn

Instagram

About the Host:

Maureen Spielman is the Founder of Mystical Sisterhood, a podcast dedicated to bringing more joy, healing and expansion to the world. She is a seasoned life coach who supports individuals through one-on-one coaching, groups and workshops.

Connect with Maureen:

● Check out her Instagram: @maureeenspielman

● Learn more about her work at www.maureenspielman.com

● Want to join our Mystical Sisterhood Membership community? Find out more here: https://www.maureenspielman.com/mysticalsisterhood

● Email Maureen at hello@maureenspielman.com to inquire about coaching, podcasting & speaking engagements

● Want to view Mystical Sisterhood episodes? Visit the Mystical Sisterhood YouTube Channel here: Magical Sisterhood Youtube

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Welcome to Deena Wiggins on the mystical

sisterhood podcast today. Deena is a purpose doula, which you

will find out what that means a master soulful facilitator and a

global purpose leader, Dina absolutely brings her energy and

passion to this conversation today. She allows us into her

life and some things that have unfolded for her, that led to

her own awakening. It's incredibly inspiring. And it's

led to her work and helping supporting individuals find

their spark within Spark, I believe she believes is just

waiting to come out. Her body of work is so extensive, and her

energy is palpable. So I hope you enjoy this this conversation

that's just filled and loaded with so many goodies. And I just

look forward to hearing your feedback on the episode. I

enjoyed it so much. So with that, we'll go to the episode.

Thanks for being here. Hey there, welcome to mystical

sisterhood. This is your host, Maureen Spielman. I started the

show to highlight the intuitives, healers and other

courageous women that I've met along my journey and continue to

meet. Through amazing interviews, I seek to ask

insightful questions to uncover ways in which you the listener

can apply the wisdom and knowledge to your own life. I

believe that we're all in this together. So sharing healing and

joy, and bringing community together is both my passion and

purpose. If you'd like to learn more about the mystical

sisterhood community I'm building, please visit www

mystical sisterhood.com See you in the episode. Welcome Dina

Wiggins to mystical sisterhood. You and I had the pleasure of

meeting through our dear friend and your colleague Susan Lucci

from episode nine for our listeners, I'm just welcoming

you here and so interested in what you have to share with our

audience around purpose around igniting the divine gifts within

and sharing with our audience, the modalities that you've

tapped into, in order to discover these gifts within. I

think that we can never hear enough of these messages. And I

get so excited because of the uniqueness that you're bringing

to the conversation and to the table. And it's going to be just

what it's meant to be. But I say welcome. And I just am so

excited for you to be here.

Oh, wow. I am delighted to be here. With you.

I absolutely love the interview that you did with Susan. It

didn't feel like an interview. It felt like this conversation.

Like we were all just kind of hanging out in someone's living

room or like around a bonfire or something and just having this

juicy conversation. It felt extremely Invitational and I

just want to say thank you, marine for following your spark

creating this place and having all of these wonderful

conversations for us to connect and find each other. And just to

really believe in like, what's up in our lives. So thank you.

Yeah, of course. And I thanks for

reflecting that back to me. It's always a valuable reflection to

me. I think that when we spoke the other day i i have been

years in the making of what came to be, but I didn't know it. I

didn't know what was happening along the way. I had periods of

I feel like intense frustration with myself for not being

somewhere this this you know, this place that I had in my mind

that I was supposed to be and I think that I don't know if I

alluded to it and Susan Lucci is episode but just that that I was

just so lost for so long. And I didn't have any reflection or,

or knowing because I just didn't know how to tap into the fact

that what I was doing at the time was exactly where I needed

to be. I wish that I would have had known that at the time. But

that even if the things well, I know it all does, but like the

bigger things that contributed to this birthing of mystical

sisterhood. They were they were happening in perfect order and

they they actually were a big pieces to my story. And yeah,

I'll just kind of start with that, you know, Oh, I know, when

I look at your website, Deena, it's wide ranging. But how did

you begin? And how did you kind of come to this work? To begin

with? Yeah,

yeah, just such a great question. So I think similar to

you, it was just leaving. It wasn't like this finite point

that like, had this like linear plot. But at this thing that

life was speaking to me. And over a period of time, I kind of

recognized it. But I recognized it and what I call the rear view

mirror wisdom. It was like after some time had passed, and then I

look back, I'm like, Oh, wow. That's what that was. And so

initially, it was just like this, ah, to recognize the

pattern. And over time, it turned into like, what you were

saying this frustration? Because I was like, How do I sync up

with this? Because the thing that was tugging at my heart,

were like, missing connection, or, like missing this divine

timing or just these opportunities? And also, wow, I

really want to sync up with that. And I think that whoever

hears that heard that, yeah, believe that when I said it,

because it was like all of these things happen. But it was a

bumpy road. It was a really bumpy road. And so I think for

me, one of the pivotal points in my life happened when I thought

things were coming together. And I had this tendency that came

from my childhood, that want it to have a happy ending, that

want it to have this, like, tie a nice bow around it. And all of

this, like really difficult stuff had meaning or whatever.

And then it you know, end it is, and life has been showing me

throughout the years, it doesn't work that way. Every ending is a

new beginning. So it's more of like a spiral. It's not like

that. And so I think now that led to my work really being

around, you know, how do we stay with that? How do we stay in the

mystery? How do we stay in the inquiry, if that's true, and

being like really more experiential, but the pathway

that led to that was actually having a stroke. In my early

40s, that happened, at least I don't know if there's ever a

time when you can think of having a major health wake up

call. But this one happened after being laid off. From a job

that I loved. I thought I had a right, I thought I was working

for a consultancy, that was a conscientious consultancy,

specializing in change management in a way that was the

most integrated that I had ever experienced at that point. And I

was like, Oh, my gosh, I found my people, like, this is it. And

it was it until it wasn't it. And after that experience, I

thought, Oh, wow, this time, I'm gonna go have this European

vacation with my family. When I went to grad school, I went to

grad school and studied abroad. And I just wanted my family to

have some of the rich experience that I had with my cohort. And

that was like this dream that I had been manifesting. Right. So

you seeing this pattern, nice bows, or whatever. And they

unraveled when I realized that I was having, I was in the midst

of a stroke that no one could identify like, what was really

the catalyst? Yeah, so it was one of those inquiries that like

knocks you down. It's no finite answer. And then my body started

talking to me in a way that I recognized my body was talking

to me. And if I'm honest, it was probably talking to me for a

while. Yeah, and I just wasn't listening. Because I was so

attuned to kind of what you were talking about marine of like

this definition of success. And just like okay, if I get the

degrees, if I am just like this superduper employee doing all

the things crossing, all the T's, dotting all the i's, having

all the right relationships, that my life would flourish in a

way. And in doing those things, I realized now looking back,

that I was moving further and further and further away from my

authenticity. and putting on the masks and doing all the things

that some well meaning mentors, were telling me to do to fit

into a world, instead of being a part of what is changing the

world, not only for me, but for countless other people beyond me

behind me. So they wouldn't have to experience that type of

switching to get ahead. And my body was keeping score of all of

this, as well as all of the unresolved hurts and booboos

that I had early on in my life. And so the stroke happened, I

lost half of my vision at that time. And then I would have

these experiences where whatever was happening was a process that

was spreading to my other eye. And so in those moments, it was

like, nothing else could penetrate this invitation to

like, really slow down and pay attention. Wow. And so that was

like a journey of 18 months. And during those 18 months, I was

reflecting back and just saying, wait a minute, what is

happening? And I was kind of getting what I call downloads,

which are these understandings that are being that were

welcoming to welcoming me to a different level of

consciousness. That was just like, wow, you've been carrying

a lot of stress. Yeah, wow, you've been carrying a lot of

should have supposed to, I wish I did all these things, and

they're manifesting in your body. And this was not the first

time that I experienced that I had had some breast cancer

scares. And the download that I got then was, these are pockets

of anger, that needs to be released from your body. It's

not what you think it is. And so here was another, you know,

invitation to like, what is my body really telling me? Mm hmm.

And so I connect it with like, the beautiful work of Louise

Hay. And just like these different ways of like decoding,

like what was happening. And I remember one day vividly, that I

was in my family room on this day, and I had begun this. So

backstory, I worked in facilitation and strategy. So I

leaned a lot on the analytic side of myself. And so I was

doing all this thing mapping with the sticky notes and doing

all these things to like, map out my life. And one day and my

family rooms, all of the sticky notes, lost the glue on the bag,

fell to the floor. And I was in a ball just like stopping, like,

oh, my gosh, I've been working on this for months, oh, my gosh,

was just starting to make sense. And in that moment, was just

like the boom, that happened. And I just said, I just spoke

out to the world and just said, I want to know the truth. I want

to know what's real. I want to stop making these house, these

houses of cards, that when they collapse, it's like a good thing

to get you through some moments, but at a period of time they

collapse. And it's really hard to get back up after that

happens. And then my life changed. Oh, yes.

Thank you for the whole backstory or not even

the whole of it. But just all of that, because I think that, you

know, I'll just say that even when I was looking at your

website, Dina, you know, the thing about these conversations

that's so valuable, is to take people back in time, because I

was thinking about it and like, oh my gosh, she's got all these

resources. Look at all she's done. And people might say, Oh,

she's got it all together. And we still know we're a work in

progress, of course. But we you started there, and just the

incredible innate wisdom of your body, saying, dropping the

whispers across time, but then saying, Oh, we might have to do

something a little more to get this woman's attention here. And

but then listening, I'm curious about the downloads. Did you

find because you so you had, I want you to say more about the

downloads and how those came to us so that people have an idea

of what those could look like. And then also you were also

reaching for some external tools like books and things to maybe

teach you new new ways of looking at the world or new

skill sets. But yeah,

yeah, get these amazing story. So there is something

that I think kind of began when I was a child Old, about nine

years old. That was just like what I would call a download

what, which is like something coming into my consciousness. So

imagine this nine years old, not being in a safe environment. And

I spent a lot of time in my room. And because something was

presencing itself to me when I would go into this room, and was

just like giving me these different games to play. And

these different games that I was playing, actually are like

foundational to some of my books, my programs and

everything. Because I've been playing with them for most of my

life. I'm 54. Now. Yeah. And so the first one I can think of is

like, what's so special about today, and it was teaching me to

like focus on one source of gratitude throughout the day,

which would just lead to another and lead to another and lead to

another and so my room, and that the templates of time ended up

being magical.

Did you have a way of writing it down? Or did

you have a wave?

Down? Nine, so I would just like, it was just enough to

know that I'm in the middle of like, a really, really, really

hard time really hard, really serious stuff that cause me to

be displaced from my home for a while I'm sick, I mean, serious

stuff. But yet, there was a spark. Yeah, that was still

there. And for me, that spark started with gratitude. Then,

the downloads taught me about synchronicity, because like,

literally, there were certain I am musically inclined. And so

there were certain songs that would just like take me

someplace else. 70s great music, but this will take me someplace

else. And I would turn that would be station from station to

station. And I was just like, this is being gifted to me in

this moment. I just knew that it was, I didn't know the word

synchronicity at night. But I knew that something was

happening to let me know you're not alone. And it was just like

feeding my spirit, and allowing me to be joyous in a time that,

you know, would defy logic in the in the moment. And so that

was like my first and I never told anyone about it, which was

interesting. Yeah. It wasn't a fear. It was just like, I just

accepted it as my reality. I just didn't think about it, you

know. And so, as I got older, what I learned is that, like,

life speaks to me in Sparks and nudges. And so what sparks and

nudges feel like someone wrote in a book, once, that voice that

you hear when you're at the grocery store that says, go down

this out and get this thing or, you know, whatever, and it's not

on your list. It's not what you plan to go. But if you listen to

it, you figure out why you're on that aisle. Yeah, if you don't

listen to it, you get home and you're like, you know, and so I

was just like, wow, so went from frustration with, with

experiences like that to let me stop and pay attention. So I

would assert that the same way when not the same way, but that

availability is available to all of us in different ways. And so

a part of the childlike wonder, and curiosity is like, what's my

spark? I call it spark language. What is the way that life knows

how to get my attention, and to share things with me that are

for me? So it's like the embodiment of some of the what I

call resonant principles, like the universe has my back, you

know, or, you know, life is working for me this these

things? Yeah, they have a universal value. Well, how do

they play out on your life? And so it goes from being living

here to living in the heart, mind body? Because it's like,

this is how it happens for me. So for me, I guess I just get,

um, downloads. And I've learned over the years, when I am more

prone to have downloads when I wake up when I get awakened at

four o'clock in the morning, sometime between four and five.

That's my download time. Yeah, I don't know if it's because I'm

relaxed. It's a lot of different wisdom traditions that we'll

talk about why that happens at that time. I don't care. Yes,

here for it. So what I do is, I will keep my phone close to me.

And I learned that when I'm groggy and half awake, I can

speak a voice memo. I can do something and then I go back to

sleep. Yes. When? Yeah. And I don't do that. I don't

acknowledge that something's communicating with me. Then I'm

up. I'm frustrated. I can't like oh, I just want to go back to

sleep. Something is communicating with me. Yes. When

I'm outside working in the soil, Like planting, it's this time of

year is so juicy for downloads for me, this is a part of my

cycle. Yep. And so I know I have to get out, I have to get my

hands in the ground, I have to plant I have to prune, I have to

do this. And I just have clarity. And I can hear

you just that, that open vessel, right? You

just, you're and you're when you're open to receive it, I

feel like you're not pushing it away. There's just you're just

creating a through line to receive, which is so important.

That reminds me more of the flow the reception, but I like what

you're saying for myself for the audience, because that's the

voice that I didn't used to know was giving me messages but all

the time. And I think Valerie from Valerie would from an

another episode had talked about, I asked her how do you

know the difference between it's your mind? And I don't know, if

you have your own answer to this, how do you know the

difference between if it's your mind, or if it's that

channeling, and she said, often sort of like your grocery store

aisle, it's like, when it's something so unexpected, that

just falls into your, your pathway, that that's the

Divinity That's the voice coming to you.

salutely. It's just like, you just, it's like, you

hear something and a part of you. It's like you're hearing

something new, or it's a new way a new lens or something. And

yet, there's a part of you that recognizes it. Yeah, it's just

that's not that's the way I can describe it. And I think that

that's what people mean, when they use the word resonant. Like

it's something that knows, I just believe that this is a time

of the great remembering. And so it's like, and I think that we

have all types of resources that help us to, like, remember some

things that we could be disconnected from for a number

of reasons. Some reasons could be conditioning, just like, you

know, doing that, where we have ancestors, family members doing

the best they can to keep us safe. Yeah. And so we sometimes

that safety, we sacrifice this other knowing, especially if

that's not a part of dominant culture, or, you know, the way

that we're supposed to know things. And so it's a it's any

number, it's any number of reasons. But I think what gives

me hope is that we're reconnecting, I believe. Yeah, I

think so now, because I'm attuned to this. And another

thing that we can do, in terms of our Spark is like, really

break it down, when we have these type of moments, and go

back as a witness to your own experience. So it's like you're

in the past, and you're in the present, and you're almost like,

I'm scribing, this experience, so you know what it feels like

in your body? Yeah, because sometimes the body will

recognize incoming, something's coming in, pay attention before

the mind can say, I don't know about that. And kind of, you

know, steer you off or whatever. But you can actually, as a

practice, start to recognize, so I'll recognize that, it'll,

it'll feel like butterflies in my stomach. And I'm just like,

oh, let me hold on, let me, let me just check in let me just pay

attention, or whatever. And it's just my practice, just so that I

can, like attune to that. And so that can become more sensitive.

And to your question, or the you know, the difference between,

like your mind, and this intelligence that's connecting

with you. A lot of times, my mind will sound like an inner

critic. And so it's a different tonal quality, it's loud. It's

like, whatever, and it doesn't feel like it lives in me, it

feels like, well, it's kind of in me, but it's like, it's just

I don't know. So it's a different feeling. This other

voice is more like a soft nudge. That's why I call it sparks and

nudges. It's just like, like a, you know, like a gentle

reminder. Going out. Yeah, it's not saying, Do you need to go

now seven, you know, don't do what I say. And that's the other

voice, right? And so, in order to, in order to be to hear that

small voice, that's why I'm saying slow down, when you can

feel that like, wait a minute, something got my attention in a

way I don't quite understand. But I'm going to slow down

enough just to see if something's there. And if not, I

can keep it moving. But I'm acknowledging, acknowledging. So

if I can acknowledge at a pause and acknowledge and writing

something down, I can acknowledge and a memo and I'm

telling you, I will tell you that At the file that I keep in

my phone that has the recording of all this stuff that just acts

like it doesn't even look like those together. They've ended up

being books. They've ended up coming together and collecting

and becoming programs and things of service as I didn't see.

Yeah,

yeah. That's really amazing. I love it, the

compilation, I've been writing down my dreams a lot like that.

And it's interesting you say that, because I'll often get up

around five and go back to sleep for an hour and a lot comes to

me then as well. But that was really important to me in what

you're saying, not only all the beautiful shares, but and I'm

testament to this. And I know so many people listening, I was the

busy one for so, so long. And I don't know if it's what you're

saying, like, this time of great remembering, it feels more, it

feels like there's a spaciousness, at least coming

from me. And I'm, you know, hopeful that we're feeling that

as we spread all these messages. And, and I know that I'm slowing

down. So in order to receive what I hear you saying like even

when you talk about that pause, and that the in between? And the

it's a slowing down? It's it's a different quality? Yeah,

absolutely. Absolutely. And when you're saying like, all

the stuff that's on the website, and things like the name of my

LLC, is success by planning. So a lot of me was like wired to

like, what's the plan? What's the rollout? What's the, you

know, all these things? What are the best practices? And I'm not

saying there's not a space for that. But what's the dance

between the structure and the flow? And so everything that

started happening after that declaration with my sticky notes

in the family room, has been download inspired, if not

driven? Yeah,

I'm sitting there, like, I mean, when they

say the wisdom is within us. That's it, huh? That and it's a

belief system to that it is there for us. That's a cross.

That's a threshold we cross. And we, but I think that even as a

coaching principle, when I first started getting into coaching is

the client in front of you has all the wisdom, but these are

the messages for me at least that keep on getting just over,

you know, they're cemented more and more and more as the truth.

And for me, they're replacing maybe some old truths that I

thought were true. And it's sort of what you were saying all the

things you believe to be true with the gold shiny bow. And

that makes me kind of laugh too. Because when we think when you

were sharing your story of Oh, and it was all gonna be wrapped

up in the bow. It's like, what did we think was after that? We

were done living it 40 or 50? Or whatever it is. It's like, no,

that's not the purpose. I feel like we're ever evolving, ever

unfolding. Yeah. So then talk about to like, so then when you

got to that part of your life after your strokes and after

those 18 months? Where did you find yourself? And then I know

you're saying like, it's so much came from downloads, but it

really got channeled into this more, a little more, a little

more refinement? I don't know if that's really true, because I

see you as also a broad practitioner.

Yeah, I think it's a both and, and so it's because it

all, it all doesn't come in at once. It's just, it almost feels

like following breadcrumbs that you know, gather. And then next

thing you know, you have a loaf of bread, you have a meal. But

it's like, it's almost like the belief did that like, wow, this

bread crumb is for me. And I'm just going to enjoy it, I'm just

going to have an experience. So a lot of it was experiential.

And I don't want to chime ahead. But it's like now because of

some of the modalities that I use. Now. When I look back, it

makes even more sense about like, why that was so alive for

me. But I can say that it was really about just this dance

that I was doing, where it was like, Okay, let me go and have

an experience with this. And so that's how I kind of like

shifted, I was already curious about purpose, when I was

working in strategy and change management. But it was in the

early 2000s. In that conversation, believe it or not,

was like it was a really disruptive conversation, even in

my world with this conscious group. And whatever it was just

like, how did you What do you mean, you know, how do you you

know, I'm just like, I just think that we do I really think

that and I think that when we attune to that. It allows us to

have a freedom and agency. And well how do you do that? I don't

know, but I'm really Curious about how I like in other words,

my I think my entry was, this is almost like Goldilocks, like,

it's not this, I'm not really sure what it is, but it's not

this. And so it just so happened the head after I had my stroke

after those 18 months after that declaration, I got a download

one day and I was doing all of these different I love to

research. And so I was researching purpose. And just

like, you know, getting some thoughts together, reading some

books and things like that. I had already had some ideas

because of some of the programs that I created, with my one on

one coaching in the realm of strategy. But it just wasn't

crystal to me. And so one day, I got a download, they said, do a

search for purpose and economy, I heard it, I do a search. And

when I did, it was the day that the book The purpose economy

came out, whoa. It was April the 15th. I can't tell you what

year, but I'm telling you, it was that like, and I got the

book, I read the book, it was crazy. Everybody that I could

share it, um, that survey instrument, the initial version,

you gotta go check this out, you gotta go check this out. And I

was just playing with it. And I was just like, Oh, my God, what

I want to do, I'm taking this to the Department of Labor. I want

to hold workshops for displaced employees. I want them to be

able to reimagine themselves, not from jobs and from roles,

but from these, these pillars, these inner pillars, and they

can just recreate and I just like that's where I was. So I

was knocking on the door of the people that the Aaron hearse for

his business, like how could come? Do I need to have

permission? Do I need to have a licensing group? What do I need?

Because I'm pitching this to Department of Labor? And then

you know, so forth. So yeah, I think it was maybe about two

years. And I would not and I was like, they probably think I'm

crazy. But I wasn't getting a response. What and then

something told me send another email. And when I sent this

email, I got a response. And the response that I got was Gina,

we're about to open a coaching training for small businesses.

Yeah. Would you like to participate? This is the this is

the initiating cohort.

Fascinating, fascinating. And I just love I

love all parts of that the synchrony synchronicity of that

download. And I love what you were saying before to leaning

into the experiences that came your way. Because I know that's

just going back a teeny bit, but I really like it for was ever

meant to listen to this today. Because I was wondering what you

called it sometimes I called a rock bottom. That that like

skidding out I when I had gone through my health journey, I

felt I would always say like I felt it was like a time of

falling to my knees. It was just it was I was in such surrender.

But so many people are experiencing that right now. So

what you experienced in your life that led to your

reawakening your rebirthing what you know, I'm sure you have

beautiful names for that so many people are going through. And so

I love how you're describing, you're almost I always think of

like the like, then you were down here sort of at that

bottom. I don't even know if that's correct. But your ascent

back like the step the steps that got you and really leaning

into what life brought your way, but of creating it yourself as

well.

Yeah, I think that creating yours, I think it's

important, I think Maya Angelou talks about this aspect. And she

says that, you know, we always wonder if the transformation of

the butterfly, but we don't ask about like what the journey was.

And I'm paraphrasing. Yeah. So I think this is the time to like,

crawl into the thing and crawl into the journey. So we're not

experts. We're just people that are sharing our lived

experience. Yes. And are learning some things as a

collective. So my self awareness grows into this collective

awareness that's, like emergent. And so in order to do that, I

want to share from the place of not when I have the nice shiny

bow, which we can see a lot of that and I'm not negating that.

I'm just noticing there's a lot of that and personal

transformation. What about when you are, you know, picking

yourself up? What about when all your sticky notes fall on the

floor, your version of that, where you think, well, you're

using your best thinking is try to reinvent yourself or try to

pick yourself up. And it's like, it's not that and so what about

that space of awe? And I'm calling it on purpose. So we

have other words like Luke Like volatile, uncertain complex, and

I think that's true. But I also love this book about, ah, from

someone that's been studying it for 26 years. And he talks about

how in the art space and then not knowing what if we embrace

that, and just realize that something is trying to come into

our frame of reference to give us meaning we don't have the

meaning. We don't have it. But it's we're being inviting,

invited to experience it. And to, you know, whatever happens

from that point forward, like, I hesitate to even say, because

there's also a tendency of like, once I name it, then I control

it. And it doesn't feel like that's the next move in the

dance. It feels like what fit what feels real. And what's like

happening right now, in my world, and my sandboxes are the

recognition of something and the sharing it in the circle and

community. And then find like, oh, my gosh, I've experienced

that, too. I would call it this. Like, yeah, so you just like,

oh, wow, I'm that alone. And then you can like you can gather

and you can have community. And so it's like moving from that

the expert and moving to the let's build community around

these experiences, let's have transformational conversations,

vulnerable conversations, where we're telling the truth about

our experience, and not in the rush to like, let me see what's

there. So I can name it and package it and, you know,

whatever. It's like, what are the understandings that allow us

to really be in this time and our shared history, and that and

her story and their story? I just make them that's like, the

rhythm of like, right now. And so I talked about that in terms

of reps. So instead of making it so analytical and heavy, it's

like, what are the purpose reps that we're doing right now? So

you mentioned a couple that I talked about a lot, like, you

know, conditioning and deconditioning. Like, you know,

expanding our frame of reference, being able to compose

some ideas that maybe made sense at a certain point in time,

maybe I inherited them. But now we're open into like, wow, you

know, here's another way of being, here's another lens for

that. And that's just a graciousness, a gracious calling

in, that's allowing us to kind of decondition and again, about

that healing with ourselves. And I think that's really important,

like Dr. Gabor Ma Tei, I love him. And in his book, The Myth

of normal, I just listened to a beautiful conversation that he

was having facilitated by his daughter, beautiful. And so one

of the biggest sufferings, he asserts, is this lack of

belonging to ourselves, not from a narcissistic or, like totally

individualists way, but just like, in order to lend myself to

another, yes. Like I just the process of healing, and really

having an authentic sense of belonging and awareness. So that

can even have the presence and the availability and your worth

the spaciousness to be able to have authentic relations and

connections with others. Yeah.

And I think when we do that work that he

speaks of the inner healing, it is I know how it's assisted me

is to really take responsibility for you know, just myself, and

it has helped if I'm healing myself, I'm projecting on other

people less I'm looking to, I'm looking less to others to heal

something within me. And I take that on as my work. So it is the

both and it's the going in, or I love gabaars work as well. And

then I hear you talking a lot about this energy of the

collective and having the conversations and the vulnerable

spaces. I know this week, I have the privilege of assisting

someone who's opening up the conversations in a local school

about technology. And it is it's and she's going to be doing a

little circles and I'm also I love the other day, you have so

many of the purpose reps are so beautiful. I loved how you said

I think you used to call yourself a coach. But even that

now you're you're leaning towards doula. Will you tell the

audience why?

Yeah, sure. So just in this journey, to be the most in

integrity, and authenticity. And I just really, it's important to

me when working with clients, that they have an understanding,

an idea about the journey about the experience of working with

you. And I just was It's an authentic for me to say, coach,

it just says it just I can't do it. Because I want to honor the

sacredness of your journey. When you're talking about what are

you talking about that journey being purpose, whether you're

talking about that journey being your personal transformation, or

the transformation in systems, all of that is deeply sacred

work. And there isn't a dislike if I want to acknowledge that

there's a, an intelligence that's supporting me with

downloads, and I have a belief system that that's available for

every single person on the planet in the way that makes

sense for their design for their unique fingerprint, then I've

got to say, how do I work in service to that? How do I work

in partnership with that? How do I acknowledge that? Yes, there

are some things that I can provide some, some frameworks,

and some things. But guess what, we all get to birth our

transformations. And that's why I think I call all of my

programs began with unlocking. Yeah, because it's like when you

unlock you, that's like, teaching someone to fish

supporting someone learning how to fish because it's like, wow,

I want you to recognize when when sparks and nudges are

coming your way, in whatever way is meaningful for you, I want

you to discover and unlock your keys too often says

authenticity, your keys to agency, your keys to like, what

is mine to do in this precious time that I'm here on this earth

at this time? Yeah, because those things live in you, they

will expand in you, they will root within you. And that, to

me, is the thing that's important. Not like what is the

because I can tell you what I think all day. And you sound

really good. And there might not be anything close to what's

really happening with you as Yeah, I can't, you know, as but

versus here are some things that may help you to unlock, like,

what's happening with you your energetic blueprint, your path

to purpose journey that you can continue to have experiences

with. And so that's the thing to me that feels it just feels like

that's the way to be. Yeah, so I say doula, instead of instead of

poach,

it's beautiful. And it's so honoring

of the person in front of you. And I think of Gosh, what how

powerful we would be if we held on to some of these things, or

were taught these things from such an early age. And then I

also remembered the initiative you shared with me the other

day, and I think it was called purpose 2030. And some of the,

some of the information about that for the audience. But just

I just love the premise of it, if you would share.

Okay, yeah, I love sharing it today, because it's

also part of the story. So, purpose. 2030 was an initiative

that was created was a conference, it was a gathering

that was created by the folks at imperative. Aaron Hurst, the

person that wrote the purpose economy, was a co founder and

part of the leadership team at imperative. So this the firt,

one of the first journeys that I took, as a stroke survivor, so

by myself, was to Arizona to this conference. And it wasn't

like a conference, it was such a collaboration, such a we space,

a co creative space. And you know, we had all these different

themes, and people were gathering by whatever theme they

were called to. And so my theme had to do with, you know, how do

we expand this purpose consciousness. And what really

attracted me to that is that I had enough clients, I had enough

experience to know to notice a pattern. And the pattern was,

most of the clients would go back to an understanding that

they had when they were much younger, that they got

disconnected from for whatever reason, and that when they

started to explore purpose in their lives, and what that

really means for them, it was connected to something they

understood when they were younger. So the idea was, what

if we really focused on purpose with the next generation? What

if we focused on purpose with you? And you know, what would

that look like? If we didn't have to go back and remember,

absolutely, actually would, you know, what would that require?

And so, I think one of the requirements has to do with the

village, especially with younger peaks. So I created three books

for Three different milestones in ages one has to do with like,

pre K, grade school, and then middle school and high school.

So, you know, the younger that we are, and the less

conditioning that we have, we kind of have these ideas. And

then what if the village was really could see us, like lit up

little peeps lit up? And this understanding what will we do to

support that? So it's like an embodied experience through the

younger people that kind of helps wake us up, we wake up the

grownups and say, Hey, wait a minute, what if my child that

came through me, yeah, has a different purpose, a different

way of being a different understanding a different way of

being in the world? And, you know, my best thinking, and the

way that I'm designed, could actually be diverting them from

this trip. And so that's kind of like, what went into the origin

of like, some of those experiences and those workbooks

was really to highlight that, and it was just so juicy, juicy.

I love it. I can I just, I think of it's a

tie in with my conscious parenting training, but just

that even this premise of, you know, hold on, hold on, like

you're saying to the spark to the divine child in front of

you, they are here to teach us as much as we are them. And what

did they have to say? And what unique things do they have to

say? And I really am excited to read the books, how do you

implement, you know, just out do it doing that work? How do you

implement it and kind of offer it to society? What does that

look like? Yeah,

so it looks like so I've worked with library

systems, actually, because a lot of the library systems and

community they have community based programs for youth? And so

just like who are the who are the supporters who's like

already there? And how can we get those materials to them? So

that can augment, like the programs that they already had

that are in service to these youth? And like, that's been

really effective? And also it with that? So that's like the

group experience. But then also, what about the families?

Absolutely.

What about the families that are is no, let me just say

this. So the children's book, all the books have the same

experience, like a iki guy experience, where we're looking

at an exploring ourselves from these multiple lenses that kind

of come together. That's like the premise of it. So the idea

was that whether we're at the boardroom, whether we're at the

dinner table, or whether we're sitting in circle, like these

things are transferable knowledge and experience.

Absolutely, the answers are there. And even if someone

thinks it's something because the condition I love to see

younger peeps, decondition absolutely love it. And so it's

like, oh, wow, sometimes you think of like, this is what my

parent or so and so would want me to say, I'm gonna say this.

And then they start having an experience with it. Because I

give them these little, they had these little I had these little

capes and whatever. And this these clothing, be my type of

super, and you can write whatever your super was, and

your own language. Just that sense of agency kind of leads to

this. Yeah. though. It's this like, so the end of the workbook

says, Okay, so if any of these things changes, awareness, any

of these things changes. Guess what, guess what we do next? We

call? Yeah, and we have, we have another experience. And we get

to try it again. Yeah, parents and caregivers get to put their

capes on to because guess what we can do? We can create

experiences that exploit that that support this curiosity. We

can create experience like, Oh, you're into this, you're curious

about this? Oh, what can we do to have this experience for you?

So that growing up with that, as part of your lived experience, I

think is will elicit significant change for us if I didn't,

yeah, I do too. And I, I just love sharing

that resource. And thanks for going into how it shared and I,

it's so funny years ago, when Susan used to hold the circles

at her house. She had a book and she is going to be listening to

this and she'll remember what I'm talking about it, but it was

more of a softcover sort of book for younger people, children.

And it was about how the universe was birthed. Whatever

it was 13 billion years ago, and I took it and I put it on my

table. I can even see your books, even though they span

different ages. They're sort of for everybody. They They seem

like they'd be really good as coffee table books. Because when

you have something sitting out like that, these books are not

just, you know, for young kids, it's for all of us to rediscover

and reimagine.

Right? I know that kid and eat for the kid. And each of

us Yes,

and I. And I know we're nearing our the end

of our time I, I know you have the whole realm you work of with

human design and the gene keys, which is another fascinating

area. Then if you want to say a bit about that, even before we

get off, so the listeners can kind of get an idea of that

piece of your work, I'd love it.

So those two there transmissions, so these were

huge downloads, that really courageous people took and

broadly shared, before the science could catch up and say,

Wow, they're onto something. And so a deep, deep, deep bow of

gratitude to them. But they, but human design, to me, is a way of

understanding our energetic blueprint. And we have different

ones. And just knowing that they are, what the differences are,

to me is a form of agency. It's also a form of connection to

ourselves and to other people, because we realize, hey, I'm

connected this way, someone else may be connected a different

way. Because they're the stories that we're telling each other

about energy vampires were telling you about. I don't want

someone to plug into me, and, and all these things. And those

are real live experiences. And I don't want to downplay that,

there's so much of a story of understanding. And even those

experiences or invitations to tap in. And Human Design is a

great way to understand some people are like Energizer

bunnies. And we are energized when we're with them. And some

people have different roles. And we all have a way of connecting

to the spark of humanity in different ways. And that's human

design. Gene keys is more about helping us to understand the

path to purpose journey, it's a journey. It's a spiral journey,

it happens over and over again. And when you understand just the

knowledge and the imprinting that was bestowed to us at the

time that we came into the world. And also about three

months prior to that. It's this dance that will just oh my gosh,

it's so juicy. And some of the tensions that we experienced as

human beings, you will find our natural tensions and they

actually work for us. And the jinkies is a great modality to

understand that dance and to be able to understand what's really

happening, you know, in our lives and our relationships with

each other with each other, and how that connects to our overall

well being and prosperity.

Beautiful, I can't wait to dive into those

human design and Gene keys for myself, I'm so excited, I will

share with the audience what I shared with you. Because I was

telling Dina that and my older sister Kelly can relate. We've

been so frustrated finding our birth time. And whenever we

wanted to do an astrological reading, or I know that the

birth time is significant for both human design and Gene keys.

And oh, I just found out I was born in the state of Indiana,

but I gave a call to the health department and she said the

reason that you don't have your birth time is because you've

been ordering the short form. So within my state, there's a long

form. So if you're anyone out there that's ever had anybody

that this is significant for any difficulty finding your birth

time, there is a longer form that's usually ordered through

the state itself, not the county. So I thought that was

kind of fascinating. And I've got mine on order. Yeah. I'm

excited. I know. So Deena, where can people find you? I'll put

everything any link that you have or want me to include on

the show notes. But yeah, where can they find you?

Um, www dot Dena Wiccans done that. And you'll

find out about the kids programs, they are called be

your type of super, you'll find out about the app that I've just

launched that has intros into human design, Gene keys, no

development goals, all type of juiciness because it's really

important to me, for all of these beautiful, beautiful

understandings to be accessible to as many people as possible.

And you can find out about ways to get a private session with me

as well. You can start to go on to the website to download and

participate in the custom report. So all of these

understandings kind of woven in with human design and jinkies

and I'm super excited about have that.

Yeah, thank you. It's all been so juicy

luscious. I love it all. Thank you for being here and thanks to

our listeners for being here. So good to have you Dina.

This has been delicious. Thank you. Yeah,

lunch.

So fun. All right to our listeners. We'll

see you next time. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Thanks for

listening to this episode of mystical sisterhood.

If you love what you heard, please visit Apple podcast and

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called to do so. To learn more about my one on one coaching

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Maureenspielman.com or mysticalsisterhood.com Thanks so