Our habits our forming us, the question is what those habits are forming

This is a special conversation built around the book You Are What You Love exploring the formative power of habit.

As much as we might like to think otherwise, we are entrenched in a deep deep well of cultural habits and rhythms that are deforming our very being as Christians. The intentional and powerful spiritual power of habits is something that is rarely discussed in our age. We hope to help you take a step forward in your spiritual growth.

resources

You Are What You Love

Atomic Habits

Complete list of WTTT Recommended books

For more conversations like this one, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, give us a rating and follow us on social media

Follow & Support

Follow us on Instagram

Support us on Patreon

Khalil Burton: 00:00:05

Welcome back to another episode of the

Khalil Burton: 00:00:07

welcome to the table podcast.

Khalil Burton: 00:00:08

My name is kil.

Khalil Burton: 00:00:09

My name is Sean and we are super excited because we have

Khalil Burton: 00:00:12

a special guest on the show.

Khalil Burton: 00:00:14

One of our good friends, actually,

Sean Silverii: 00:00:15

yes, and a listener, a fellow listener.

Sean Silverii: 00:00:18

And we've also roped her in a little bit to even help on with the podcast.

Sean Silverii: 00:00:24

We'll let's talk about we'll that a second though.

Sean Silverii: 00:00:27

We'll get that a second.

Khalil Burton: 00:00:27

This person who, who is this person is Akeisha Gibson

Khalil Burton: 00:00:33

and she's she got flannel on, she does have a flannel on good friend.

Khalil Burton: 00:00:37

She's actually working at hope church.

Khalil Burton: 00:00:39

The church that I'm at right now recently hired on to become a

Khalil Burton: 00:00:42

part of team, which is awesome.

Khalil Burton: 00:00:44

But also been a friend through young adults and just some other things in life.

Khalil Burton: 00:00:48

And so.

Khalil Burton: 00:00:48

All three of us.

Khalil Burton: 00:00:49

We've read this book together.

Khalil Burton: 00:00:51

It's called you are what you love.

Khalil Burton: 00:00:53

And so, yes.

Khalil Burton: 00:00:54

We wanted to just dialogue about these concepts together and Sean, I'll let you

Khalil Burton: 00:00:59

brag on Acacia a little bit, but yeah uh, she is a great mind, a great follower of

Khalil Burton: 00:01:03

Jesus and a great voice to have on here.

Sean Silverii: 00:01:05

Well, Aisha is a scholar in our own right.

Sean Silverii: 00:01:09

and theologian, she's a fantastic brand new wife.

Sean Silverii: 00:01:14

And like I said, I alluded to it very quickly, quickly.

Sean Silverii: 00:01:17

She does help us on the podcast with some artwork and different things.

Sean Silverii: 00:01:21

Mm-hmm , but more than that, she really, I mean, she really loves Jesus

Sean Silverii: 00:01:26

mm-hmm . And so her passion for the scriptures and for the word fuels your

Sean Silverii: 00:01:32

every day in how you live your life.

Sean Silverii: 00:01:34

And it really kind of, this book really kind of, compliments that as well.

Sean Silverii: 00:01:39

And I know we'll get into that even more.

Khalil Burton: 00:01:42

So Acacia, what else do we need to know about you?

Sean Silverii: 00:01:46

tell our people.

Sean Silverii: 00:01:46

What's one other thing you think that everybody needs to know about you?

Sean Silverii: 00:01:50

All the listeners, all of them.

Acacia Gibson: 00:01:52

Wow.

Acacia Gibson: 00:01:53

Hello?

Acacia Gibson: 00:01:54

All of the listeners.

Acacia Gibson: 00:01:55

One thing about me one thing that really shaped me is the

Acacia Gibson: 00:02:00

amount of siblings that I have.

Sean Silverii: 00:02:02

Oh, oh yeah.

Sean Silverii: 00:02:03

How many is that?

Acacia Gibson: 00:02:04

One of nine.

Acacia Gibson: 00:02:05

Wow.

Acacia Gibson: 00:02:05

I'm a middle kid, which is also important.

Acacia Gibson: 00:02:08

Wow.

Sean Silverii: 00:02:10

You are the middle.

Sean Silverii: 00:02:10

I'm the middle.

Sean Silverii: 00:02:11

Are you like right in the middle?

Sean Silverii: 00:02:12

So number five.

Sean Silverii: 00:02:13

Yeah.

Sean Silverii: 00:02:13

Five, four old and four.

Sean Silverii: 00:02:15

Yeah.

Acacia Gibson: 00:02:16

Wow.

Acacia Gibson: 00:02:17

Yep.

Acacia Gibson: 00:02:18

I was raised by the oldest and then I raised the youngest.

Sean Silverii: 00:02:21

That is interesting.

Sean Silverii: 00:02:22

And you think about it in that way, you were raised by the oldest,

Sean Silverii: 00:02:26

but you raised the youngest.

Acacia Gibson: 00:02:28

Yes.

Acacia Gibson: 00:02:28

So I didn't learn how to cook or anything.

Acacia Gibson: 00:02:30

I just learned how to delegate chores.

Khalil Burton: 00:02:32

and that has made her an exceptional leader.

Khalil Burton: 00:02:34

Yep.

Sean Silverii: 00:02:35

so my mom says exactly well, and you aren't from.

Sean Silverii: 00:02:39

The west coast either.

Sean Silverii: 00:02:40

No, you just kinda, you kind of moved out to the west coast.

Acacia Gibson: 00:02:44

I transplanted.

Sean Silverii: 00:02:44

Yeah.

Khalil Burton: 00:02:45

What's the short story.

Sean Silverii: 00:02:46

Yeah.

Sean Silverii: 00:02:46

Can you give a cliff notes of that?

Sean Silverii: 00:02:48

Give, give us the cliff notes.

Acacia Gibson: 00:02:48

Okay.

Sean Silverii: 00:02:49

How you ended up here.

Acacia Gibson: 00:02:50

Yeah.

Acacia Gibson: 00:02:50

So my, I was going to a school called college of the Ozarks in Branson,

Acacia Gibson: 00:02:56

Missouri, and then they, I was taking graphic design as my major mm-hmm

Acacia Gibson: 00:03:02

and they discontinued the major.

Acacia Gibson: 00:03:05

So it's a small private Christian college.

Acacia Gibson: 00:03:08

Discontinued the major.

Acacia Gibson: 00:03:09

So my advisor was like, well, we could kind of make up one and throw together

Acacia Gibson: 00:03:17

some other courses and make something.

Acacia Gibson: 00:03:18

I was like, well, I don't really know what I want to do.

Acacia Gibson: 00:03:20

Really.

Acacia Gibson: 00:03:21

I don't know if that's the route I want to go.

Acacia Gibson: 00:03:23

So my sister called me, I dropped out and then my sister called

Acacia Gibson: 00:03:28

me and she was like, Hey, you.

Acacia Gibson: 00:03:30

Going anywhere with your life you should, you should come out to Oregon.

Acacia Gibson: 00:03:34

And her husband is a graphic designer, so he showed me, he

Acacia Gibson: 00:03:38

had his own like side business.

Acacia Gibson: 00:03:41

So he was like, I can show you how to do this, if this is what you really wanna do.

Acacia Gibson: 00:03:45

It's not really what I wanna do.

Acacia Gibson: 00:03:47

I like art, but I don't, it just ruins it to do it for a business.

Acacia Gibson: 00:03:51

So, yeah.

Acacia Gibson: 00:03:52

So then.

Acacia Gibson: 00:03:53

Moved they actually left.

Acacia Gibson: 00:03:55

So I moved to the coast with them and then six months later they moved away.

Acacia Gibson: 00:03:58

So I stayed because I loved it.

Acacia Gibson: 00:04:00

And so I moved in with my aunt and then I met TA one of my coworkers at the coffee

Acacia Gibson: 00:04:06

shop that I was working at and she invited me to hope church and yeah, there you go.

Acacia Gibson: 00:04:12

Yeah.

Acacia Gibson: 00:04:12

And then, and then I met, KLEO like a few.

Acacia Gibson: 00:04:17

a few weeks, actually.

Acacia Gibson: 00:04:18

Probably a couple weeks.

Acacia Gibson: 00:04:18

Yeah.

Acacia Gibson: 00:04:19

Yeah, because it was Halloween and then we took a coast trip and then he

Acacia Gibson: 00:04:22

was like why are you not in school?

Acacia Gibson: 00:04:24

And I was

Khalil Burton: 00:04:24

like, whoa, for ministry specifically.

Khalil Burton: 00:04:27

Yeah.

Khalil Burton: 00:04:27

I definitely saw that.

Khalil Burton: 00:04:28

Yeah.

Khalil Burton: 00:04:28

God wanted to use you in some, some other ways.

Khalil Burton: 00:04:31

Yeah.

Khalil Burton: 00:04:31

And you

Acacia Gibson: 00:04:31

had a really cool what's the word?

Sean Silverii: 00:04:34

Funk.

Sean Silverii: 00:04:35

I don't know.

Acacia Gibson: 00:04:37

sure.

Acacia Gibson: 00:04:38

S a cool Fung vibe will vibe.

Acacia Gibson: 00:04:40

Yeah, I was gonna say advice.

Acacia Gibson: 00:04:42

Oh, okay.

Acacia Gibson: 00:04:42

Goodness.

Acacia Gibson: 00:04:43

A good recommendation for a school, I should say because yeah, Northwest

Acacia Gibson: 00:04:47

university is a really good option for me.

Acacia Gibson: 00:04:49

So that's what I'm doing now.

Acacia Gibson: 00:04:50

Yeah.

Sean Silverii: 00:04:51

And you'll go on to continue your studies.

Sean Silverii: 00:04:54

And there's a reason why I said you're a scholar theologian

Sean Silverii: 00:04:57

and it's not just me being.

Sean Silverii: 00:05:01

Facetious or tongue in cheek.

Sean Silverii: 00:05:02

So we mm-hmm, very well respected biblical nerd that has joined the table.

Khalil Burton: 00:05:08

I love learning.

Khalil Burton: 00:05:09

We love it's nerds around the table, nerds around the table.

Khalil Burton: 00:05:11

We love that.

Khalil Burton: 00:05:12

That's my favorite

Sean Silverii: 00:05:12

kind of table.

Sean Silverii: 00:05:13

Yeah.

Sean Silverii: 00:05:13

And all of those who, listen, you are nerds as well, and

Sean Silverii: 00:05:17

it's nothing wrong with that.

Sean Silverii: 00:05:18

That's awesome.

Sean Silverii: 00:05:19

We we welcome all those to the nerd table, anyone and everyone who want to be.

Sean Silverii: 00:05:23

So we're glad you're here with us.

Sean Silverii: 00:05:25

Thank you.

Sean Silverii: 00:05:25

And we are talking this book by James Kay Smith.

Sean Silverii: 00:05:27

You are what you love.

Sean Silverii: 00:05:28

It's a, it's a formative book really, and it's really been a challenging read, but.

Sean Silverii: 00:05:34

I think it goes beyond just the book.

Sean Silverii: 00:05:37

And so, yeah, I would say there's more to

Khalil Burton: 00:05:39

it.

Khalil Burton: 00:05:39

This is that this is one.

Khalil Burton: 00:05:41

As soon as I read it, I went, man, this is mandatory reading for every

Khalil Burton: 00:05:44

Christian mm-hmm I think this is mandatory reading for every Christian.

Khalil Burton: 00:05:47

So we'll put the link to the, the book in the show notes as well.

Khalil Burton: 00:05:51

But yeah, it's a, it's a challenging book and what's crazy to me is

Khalil Burton: 00:05:54

just how much it challenged.

Khalil Burton: 00:05:57

Current thinking my, my preconceived notions and I really believe you guys

Khalil Burton: 00:06:01

can speak for yourself, but it, I think it changed the trajectory of

Khalil Burton: 00:06:05

my walk with Jesus and how I think of my time and my energy and my

Khalil Burton: 00:06:09

resources and where my attention goes.

Khalil Burton: 00:06:11

And all of that, so, right.

Khalil Burton: 00:06:13

Acacia, could you help us kinda get us started?

Khalil Burton: 00:06:15

Like just what what's a short overview or this idea the

Khalil Burton: 00:06:18

title is you are what you love.

Khalil Burton: 00:06:20

It's called the spiritual power of habit.

Khalil Burton: 00:06:21

What, what does this mean?

Khalil Burton: 00:06:22

Yes.

Acacia Gibson: 00:06:23

So this book was incredible and really challenged me

Acacia Gibson: 00:06:27

because as a learner and a thinker, I want to believe that I am as much

Acacia Gibson: 00:06:32

knowledge as I can possibly get.

Acacia Gibson: 00:06:34

And I am the sum of that, but that's not true.

Acacia Gibson: 00:06:37

I.

Acacia Gibson: 00:06:39

And this book challenges, the idea that a lot of our culture and education

Acacia Gibson: 00:06:43

systems, the premise of it being that we are made, mainly thinking things

Acacia Gibson: 00:06:49

mm-hmm , mm-hmm and that he challenges that and says that's not true, because

Acacia Gibson: 00:06:53

if that were true, then learning more would lead to behavior change mm-hmm

Acacia Gibson: 00:06:57

and that's not usually the case.

Acacia Gibson: 00:06:59

No.

Acacia Gibson: 00:07:00

And so he's saying you are what you love and you don't necessarily know what it

Acacia Gibson: 00:07:04

is that you love, what you desire most.

Acacia Gibson: 00:07:07

Yeah.

Khalil Burton: 00:07:08

And with that, I mean, that, that premise, they used the image

Khalil Burton: 00:07:12

of like, we're not just, you know, brains on a stick mm-hmm like, we,

Khalil Burton: 00:07:15

we we've made so much in our culture.

Khalil Burton: 00:07:17

Everything's about knowledge.

Khalil Burton: 00:07:19

I mean, we, we kind of idolize knowledge and we can even sometimes assess the

Khalil Burton: 00:07:24

value of another individual based on how much they know mm-hmm . And

Khalil Burton: 00:07:27

do I know more than they know?

Khalil Burton: 00:07:29

Am I smarter than they are?

Khalil Burton: 00:07:30

Or they're so much smarter than me.

Khalil Burton: 00:07:32

Like that's a way we determine value in a lot of.

Khalil Burton: 00:07:35

But what's the old a Dodges?

Khalil Burton: 00:07:37

I think therefore I am mm-hmm right.

Khalil Burton: 00:07:39

That idea that, oh, what I.

Khalil Burton: 00:07:41

is how I should understand who I am and what I believe and what I live for.

Khalil Burton: 00:07:45

And this thing that may not be as true as we think it is.

Khalil Burton: 00:07:48

In fact, there there's some deeper things going on and it really comes

Khalil Burton: 00:07:52

down to the, the, the notion of what is in our heart, belonging of our heart.

Khalil Burton: 00:07:57

Ultimately, yeah, and those

Sean Silverii: 00:07:58

types of things, those ways of behavior, if you will, or that

Sean Silverii: 00:08:02

Mo Mo operandi, the way we operate.

Sean Silverii: 00:08:07

A result out of the, of modernity and enlight of the enlightenment period.

Sean Silverii: 00:08:11

We have an episode with Lauren Kerns.

Sean Silverii: 00:08:14

You can go back and listen to if you'd like to to go deeper in that.

Sean Silverii: 00:08:18

But it really is about our guts about our heart and the scriptures.

Sean Silverii: 00:08:22

I love that the Bible really speaks to this like thousands of years

Sean Silverii: 00:08:28

before this book has ever written.

Sean Silverii: 00:08:31

And one scripture that's really a linchpin for me.

Sean Silverii: 00:08:34

Psalm 1 39, 23 and 24.

Sean Silverii: 00:08:37

We often use this scripture in, in other ways to, to talk about how,

Sean Silverii: 00:08:43

how God knows who we are and that we're formed in the womb and, and

Sean Silverii: 00:08:47

from birth, we matter and purpose and all that, which is true and good.

Sean Silverii: 00:08:51

But then it says, search me God, and know my heart.

Sean Silverii: 00:08:53

Mm-hmm know my.

Sean Silverii: 00:08:55

Try me and know my thoughts and see if there'd be any grievous way in

Sean Silverii: 00:08:59

me, lead me in the way everlasting.

Sean Silverii: 00:09:01

And the implication is that I don't even know my own grievous thinking or

Sean Silverii: 00:09:08

even the dark recesses of my heart.

Sean Silverii: 00:09:10

My heart is deceived and can lead me astray if not formed properly

Sean Silverii: 00:09:16

under the authority of God as the Psalm is even kind of alluding to.

Sean Silverii: 00:09:20

And so.

Sean Silverii: 00:09:21

I think it's a fantastic metaphor, really words on the page there

Sean Silverii: 00:09:27

for, for how we're formed.

Sean Silverii: 00:09:28

So,

Khalil Burton: 00:09:29

yeah.

Khalil Burton: 00:09:30

So you said it was a really challenging book mm-hmm when you

Khalil Burton: 00:09:33

first starting to think of these ideas, what was, what do you, you find

Khalil Burton: 00:09:37

to be the most challenging for you?

Khalil Burton: 00:09:38

Or how did it affect

Acacia Gibson: 00:09:39

you the most?

Acacia Gibson: 00:09:40

Well, I didn't like that.

Acacia Gibson: 00:09:42

I'm not what I think like, I didn't like that.

Acacia Gibson: 00:09:46

The sum of what I.

Acacia Gibson: 00:09:49

Spend all my time trying to learn and understand it.

Acacia Gibson: 00:09:52

Doesn't make me the person that I want to be.

Acacia Gibson: 00:09:56

It doesn't make me behave the way that I want to.

Acacia Gibson: 00:09:58

And I know that as a reality in my life and this just really made me think about,

Acacia Gibson: 00:10:07

I want to be a person with better habits.

Acacia Gibson: 00:10:10

I want to be a person who is consistent with spiritual disciplines.

Acacia Gibson: 00:10:13

Why don't I do that?

Acacia Gibson: 00:10:14

If I say that, and I know, I know all of.

Acacia Gibson: 00:10:17

The good positive implications of doing that.

Acacia Gibson: 00:10:21

Why can't I stick to it or why isn't this actually what I desire?

Acacia Gibson: 00:10:25

So I didn't realize that that was the heart of the issue.

Acacia Gibson: 00:10:28

Mm.

Khalil Burton: 00:10:29

And I think there's, so there's this, there's this

Khalil Burton: 00:10:33

constant tension in this conversation between what we think, or even what

Khalil Burton: 00:10:38

we say or what we proclaim versus.

Khalil Burton: 00:10:41

What really is, and I'm kind of bouncing all over the place in my

Khalil Burton: 00:10:45

head a little bit, but one of the things that we culturally do is, you

Khalil Burton: 00:10:49

know, when we look at problems in the world and we look at, we look at

Khalil Burton: 00:10:52

whatever the issue is, oftentimes we think this solution is more education.

Khalil Burton: 00:10:56

The solution is if, if people know more, if there's more knowledge on this, if

Khalil Burton: 00:11:00

there's more awareness, whatever, then that education that that learning is

Khalil Burton: 00:11:07

the way we're going to change the world.

Khalil Burton: 00:11:09

So, largely society thinks that salvation is in the mind, right?

Khalil Burton: 00:11:13

The way to become new human is just to get more education.

Khalil Burton: 00:11:17

And, and so we even do.

Khalil Burton: 00:11:19

In our approach to discipleship.

Khalil Burton: 00:11:21

I mean, I wanna be a better follower of Jesus.

Khalil Burton: 00:11:23

So it's like, I need to go to Bible college or I need to learn more.

Khalil Burton: 00:11:26

If I could study more, if I could do more apologetics and learn better

Khalil Burton: 00:11:30

answers to difficult questions.

Khalil Burton: 00:11:32

And if, if I just know more, then I'm gonna be better follower of Jesus.

Khalil Burton: 00:11:35

And one of the things that I really like in this book is James K.

Khalil Burton: 00:11:39

Smith makes a great.

Khalil Burton: 00:11:41

he says that Jesus, isn't a teacher who just informs our intellect,

Khalil Burton: 00:11:45

but one who forms our very loves mm-hmm . And you think about the

Khalil Burton: 00:11:49

difference between our thoughts and our actions, like you were saying.

Khalil Burton: 00:11:52

I like, I'm smart enough to know what Jesus says and to know what is right.

Khalil Burton: 00:11:58

And to know what is sin and to know these things.

Khalil Burton: 00:12:00

And yet the same.

Khalil Burton: 00:12:02

I fall in habits of chasing after sinful things or pursuing things

Khalil Burton: 00:12:06

that I know are not good if I really were to take a step back.

Khalil Burton: 00:12:08

And so there's this gap between what I know and what I think and what I

Khalil Burton: 00:12:14

say and proclaim to people and what is oftentimes happening in my heart.

Khalil Burton: 00:12:19

And that's where there's a difference between what we think, what we

Khalil Burton: 00:12:22

know and what we actually love.

Khalil Burton: 00:12:24

And we desire.

Khalil Burton: 00:12:25

And there's this illustration of he, he cites a movie.

Khalil Burton: 00:12:29

We could just say this idea if there was a door and we were told that if

Khalil Burton: 00:12:32

you walk through that door, you would get whatever it is you, you want

Khalil Burton: 00:12:35

most, you will receive whatever it is you want most and you'll have it.

Khalil Burton: 00:12:39

Well, you see, think that you're like, that's awesome.

Khalil Burton: 00:12:41

I wanna walk through that door.

Khalil Burton: 00:12:42

I wanna receive what's on the, on the other side of that, you might think right

Khalil Burton: 00:12:45

now, I know what would be on the other side of that door, what I want most.

Khalil Burton: 00:12:48

And when you get up to that door and right before you walk through there's

Khalil Burton: 00:12:51

this moment, all of a sudden where.

Khalil Burton: 00:12:54

Do I actually know what I want most, you know, I know what I would say.

Khalil Burton: 00:12:58

I want most like I'm a, I'm a father of Jesus.

Khalil Burton: 00:13:01

I'm a Christian, I'm a pastor.

Khalil Burton: 00:13:02

I would say, I want Jesus.

Khalil Burton: 00:13:04

Most, I want to be in relationship with him the most.

Khalil Burton: 00:13:08

But I also know idols creep into my heart.

Khalil Burton: 00:13:09

Sometimes some that I'm not even aware of.

Khalil Burton: 00:13:11

So then the question is, if I walk through that door, do I actually want Jesus most?

Khalil Burton: 00:13:15

Or am I gonna get something else?

Khalil Burton: 00:13:17

And.

Khalil Burton: 00:13:18

It just goes to show and it challenged me as like, in many ways I might

Khalil Burton: 00:13:21

not even know what my heart really longs for most those subtle cravings

Khalil Burton: 00:13:26

or subtle idols or subtle desires.

Acacia Gibson: 00:13:28

Yeah.

Acacia Gibson: 00:13:28

And on the, like talking about discipleship, the implications of

Acacia Gibson: 00:13:31

this for discipleship, it made me really think because as a person who

Acacia Gibson: 00:13:36

is pursuing higher education, I would love to be a teacher or professor.

Acacia Gibson: 00:13:41

The biblical studies of anything to help people understand the

Acacia Gibson: 00:13:47

Bible better and theology.

Acacia Gibson: 00:13:49

And that's a passion of mine, but that's not the solution.

Acacia Gibson: 00:13:54

Like I can teach people all day long.

Acacia Gibson: 00:13:57

What the correct answer is in a multiple choice.

Acacia Gibson: 00:13:59

Mm-hmm but do they like, are they a follower of Jesus?

Acacia Gibson: 00:14:03

Yeah.

Acacia Gibson: 00:14:03

And it makes me think that imitation and rituals and

Acacia Gibson: 00:14:07

practices is really the answer.

Acacia Gibson: 00:14:09

To discipleship rather than just a five week class

Sean Silverii: 00:14:13

knowledge.

Sean Silverii: 00:14:14

Mm-hmm . Yeah.

Sean Silverii: 00:14:15

And you, you talked about it and I, that was kind of the question

Sean Silverii: 00:14:18

you alluded to it right now.

Sean Silverii: 00:14:20

He talks about liturgies.

Sean Silverii: 00:14:22

How would you for our listeners describe liturgies or G for them, how would you,

Sean Silverii: 00:14:31

how would you help help somebody if you were to talk to them about litur.

Sean Silverii: 00:14:34

How would you talk to them about it?

Acacia Gibson: 00:14:36

Yes.

Acacia Gibson: 00:14:36

That was actually something in the book that I kind of had to re like, change

Acacia Gibson: 00:14:41

how I think about, yeah, because when I heard that, I just think of old church.

Sean Silverii: 00:14:45

Right, right.

Sean Silverii: 00:14:46

High church.

Sean Silverii: 00:14:47

She had the Catholic Catholic right Presbyterian.

Acacia Gibson: 00:14:49

So, but he really, he made me want to start practicing liturgies

Acacia Gibson: 00:14:55

and, and to think about the liturgies as the The kind of the storylines that

Acacia Gibson: 00:15:01

we subscribe to the, there you go.

Acacia Gibson: 00:15:03

The realities that we that we shape our life around.

Acacia Gibson: 00:15:07

So he talks about he in the book, James K.

Acacia Gibson: 00:15:10

Smith talks about the liturgy of going to the mall and the liturgy

Acacia Gibson: 00:15:14

of consumerism and how every store that you walk by is luring you in.

Acacia Gibson: 00:15:20

You want this on this mannequin or whatever.

Acacia Gibson: 00:15:22

Mm-hmm, . So it's what we surround our lives with.

Acacia Gibson: 00:15:25

That draws us toward what we desire.

Acacia Gibson: 00:15:28

Most it feeds an appetite.

Acacia Gibson: 00:15:30

So he talks about spiritual liturgies as being in the church.

Acacia Gibson: 00:15:36

Mm-hmm liturgies of worship, liturgy of reading the Bible, but

Acacia Gibson: 00:15:41

he talks about them differently rather than just like a checklist.

Acacia Gibson: 00:15:44

It's why are you doing them?

Khalil Burton: 00:15:46

Right, right.

Khalil Burton: 00:15:48

Yeah.

Khalil Burton: 00:15:48

One of the things that.

Khalil Burton: 00:15:50

It comes up here a lot in this thinking versus the actual desires of our heart.

Khalil Burton: 00:15:55

I'll use the affections of our heart.

Khalil Burton: 00:15:56

What really has our attention.

Khalil Burton: 00:15:57

I mean, we, we worship what we love.

Khalil Burton: 00:16:02

Right.

Khalil Burton: 00:16:03

And when you worship something, you.

Khalil Burton: 00:16:05

you center your life around it.

Khalil Burton: 00:16:06

Mm-hmm , you know, if I worship, if you can tell someone truly worships

Khalil Burton: 00:16:10

Jesus in the sense that they make their life about Jesus, they surround their

Khalil Burton: 00:16:15

environment with the things of Jesus.

Khalil Burton: 00:16:16

Maybe you see Bible, maybe you see other Christian things, right?

Khalil Burton: 00:16:19

They go to church.

Khalil Burton: 00:16:20

They part, they serve in the local ministry.

Khalil Burton: 00:16:23

They give ties and offerings.

Khalil Burton: 00:16:25

Your, when something has your heart and you worship it, you give your time and

Khalil Burton: 00:16:30

your affection and your energies to it.

Khalil Burton: 00:16:32

So.

Khalil Burton: 00:16:33

The idea of the mall or really anything else in our life, we can

Khalil Burton: 00:16:36

say one way you can determine what you love is what gets your time.

Khalil Burton: 00:16:41

Yeah.

Khalil Burton: 00:16:41

What gets your energy?

Khalil Burton: 00:16:42

What gets your thoughts?

Khalil Burton: 00:16:43

I mean, what posters do you have up?

Khalil Burton: 00:16:45

What are the, what's the background on your phone?

Khalil Burton: 00:16:47

What, what are the things that you spend your time thinking about pursuing?

Khalil Burton: 00:16:51

What's gonna get your money.

Khalil Burton: 00:16:52

What are you meditating on repeatedly?

Khalil Burton: 00:16:55

And the challenge here.

Khalil Burton: 00:16:59

Saying liturgies, which I would just describe as rhythms of

Khalil Burton: 00:17:02

repetition patterns, right?

Khalil Burton: 00:17:04

That a liturgy is really a rhythm of your daily life.

Khalil Burton: 00:17:07

So we all have different liturgies in our life.

Khalil Burton: 00:17:09

If you brush your teeth every morning, that's a liturgy.

Khalil Burton: 00:17:12

Let's hope you do.

Khalil Burton: 00:17:12

It's a rhythm.

Khalil Burton: 00:17:13

We hope deodorant, you know,

Sean Silverii: 00:17:15

Maybe we could better

Khalil Burton: 00:17:16

put deodorant on, sorry.

Khalil Burton: 00:17:18

You just made me think of middle school.

Khalil Burton: 00:17:19

Boy, cabins, Uhhuh camp season.

Khalil Burton: 00:17:21

Sorry, that was a little flashback.

Khalil Burton: 00:17:22

That's why I paused.

Khalil Burton: 00:17:23

That's intense, but, but your rhythms like you have, yeah, you'll have a,

Khalil Burton: 00:17:27

a liturgy of hygiene or you'll have a liturgy around your meals and, and what

Khalil Burton: 00:17:32

you eat, sleep patterns, sleep patterns.

Khalil Burton: 00:17:34

And so you start to practice these things.

Khalil Burton: 00:17:36

If you're an athlete, you have liturgies of practice every single day.

Khalil Burton: 00:17:39

And the point here is.

Khalil Burton: 00:17:42

, it's not what we think that shapes us the most.

Khalil Burton: 00:17:44

It's what we do.

Khalil Burton: 00:17:45

Mm-hmm , it's where we spend our time.

Khalil Burton: 00:17:46

It's where our habits go repeatedly.

Khalil Burton: 00:17:49

And so, you know, if it doesn't matter, if you want to be

Khalil Burton: 00:17:52

healthy and your desire right.

Khalil Burton: 00:17:54

Is to have, is to have a good diet and you say, I know that I should eat well.

Khalil Burton: 00:17:59

Right.

Khalil Burton: 00:17:59

You can know that you should eat well and want to be on a diet.

Khalil Burton: 00:18:02

And yet, for some reason you don't exercise and you don't eat well and

Khalil Burton: 00:18:06

you continue to pursue the junk food.

Khalil Burton: 00:18:08

Well, what does that say?

Khalil Burton: 00:18:09

It's not.

Khalil Burton: 00:18:11

In, in word, you would say, I love, or I, I wanna be healthy,

Khalil Burton: 00:18:17

but your habits, your actions, the liturgies of your life show that you

Khalil Burton: 00:18:20

actually love something else more.

Khalil Burton: 00:18:22

You love a, you love a different lifestyle more.

Khalil Burton: 00:18:25

And so, in, in our pattern or a walk with God in daily life, I just think

Khalil Burton: 00:18:30

about it this way in the sense that like Sean, there's so many different.

Khalil Burton: 00:18:36

Cultural liturgies that are written.

Khalil Burton: 00:18:38

I was even gonna say, maybe you could just think of some for us, like yeah.

Khalil Burton: 00:18:43

Our culture is writing is writing a rhythm for us.

Khalil Burton: 00:18:48

Right.

Khalil Burton: 00:18:48

And we can get sucked into that and that can shape us more than some of

Khalil Burton: 00:18:51

the, some what really Jesus should be.

Khalil Burton: 00:18:54

Right?

Khalil Burton: 00:18:54

Yeah.

Khalil Burton: 00:18:54

Yeah.

Khalil Burton: 00:18:55

I DT know if there's anything you'd add.

Sean Silverii: 00:18:56

Yeah.

Sean Silverii: 00:18:56

And I'd love, I think that's a great question and I'd love to even hear AAC.

Sean Silverii: 00:19:01

Your response to that.

Sean Silverii: 00:19:02

I'll give you a second to think about it though.

Sean Silverii: 00:19:04

Part of the problem I believe is in America, say in the west, we

Sean Silverii: 00:19:10

have believed hooks hook, line, and sinker that we belong to ourselves.

Sean Silverii: 00:19:16

Mm-hmm . And so everything is it is an all out marketing for the

Sean Silverii: 00:19:22

lack of a better term attack.

Sean Silverii: 00:19:25

Humanity in the west to think that you are your own person.

Sean Silverii: 00:19:31

And so with that, you have it it's just, we naturally are bent towards.

Sean Silverii: 00:19:39

Thinking of, I form myself.

Sean Silverii: 00:19:41

I'm responsible for me.

Sean Silverii: 00:19:42

I don't, I don't answer to anybody but myself and it's even creeped into the

Sean Silverii: 00:19:46

church, into Christian life and living.

Sean Silverii: 00:19:48

And so, and so, everything is pinpointed toward that media.

Sean Silverii: 00:19:53

Our, our education, everything is metrics.

Sean Silverii: 00:19:57

So, so it's all about competition and getting to the top, even if you're

Sean Silverii: 00:20:02

like, you don't want to get, so it's all about production and performance

Sean Silverii: 00:20:07

and success as as defined either by the individual person whoever's God's

Sean Silverii: 00:20:13

or God that they proclaim they have.

Sean Silverii: 00:20:16

And so, so what we have is.

Sean Silverii: 00:20:18

In technology, I would say as an example, it's constantly catering.

Sean Silverii: 00:20:25

It's constantly shaping us.

Sean Silverii: 00:20:27

It's constantly shaping the, the, the person that you are.

Sean Silverii: 00:20:30

I, I can't remember what I was talking to.

Sean Silverii: 00:20:31

I was talking to a, a college student who works with college students.

Sean Silverii: 00:20:36

She might have just graduated, but she she's, she's interacting with college

Sean Silverii: 00:20:40

students who are averaging six to eight hours a day on in front of the screen.

Sean Silverii: 00:20:45

Mm-hmm and.

Sean Silverii: 00:20:47

It is absolutely.

Sean Silverii: 00:20:49

And I'll steal from Khalil deforming re reforming, deconstructing,

Sean Silverii: 00:20:54

deconstructing, reconstructing, and we don't even necessarily realize it.

Sean Silverii: 00:21:00

Mm-hmm cause it's so natural.

Sean Silverii: 00:21:02

Cuz our culture is so naturally bent on you're the God of your life.

Sean Silverii: 00:21:07

You know what I mean?

Sean Silverii: 00:21:07

And so you're responsible for you.

Sean Silverii: 00:21:09

You don't, you're not owned by anybody or anything, which is not true.

Sean Silverii: 00:21:13

We know that's not true.

Sean Silverii: 00:21:15

Mm-hmm and.

Sean Silverii: 00:21:15

I don't know if that's exactly what we were thinking, but there's a book called

Sean Silverii: 00:21:18

you are not your own by Alan Noble.

Sean Silverii: 00:21:20

I'm halfway through it.

Sean Silverii: 00:21:21

It's a good counterpart to this book, I think.

Sean Silverii: 00:21:24

Or I'm finding out that it is.

Sean Silverii: 00:21:26

So, that's another good read, but anyway.

Sean Silverii: 00:21:28

Yeah.

Sean Silverii: 00:21:28

Your

Acacia Gibson: 00:21:28

thoughts?

Acacia Gibson: 00:21:29

Yeah, I agree.

Acacia Gibson: 00:21:30

I think.

Acacia Gibson: 00:21:31

While I was reading this book, I was realizing that it's, he's talking

Acacia Gibson: 00:21:35

about that culturals cultural liturgy are very me centric.

Acacia Gibson: 00:21:42

They're very much you, it's your truth.

Acacia Gibson: 00:21:45

It's all subjective.

Acacia Gibson: 00:21:46

You can define and redefine however many times you want with whatever you want.

Acacia Gibson: 00:21:50

There is no objective truths to bow down to.

Acacia Gibson: 00:21:54

You can change whatever.

Acacia Gibson: 00:21:57

And, and it's also.

Acacia Gibson: 00:21:59

It's, it's weird to me because it's the newest things are the best things.

Acacia Gibson: 00:22:03

So you have to keep getting the newest things, right.

Acacia Gibson: 00:22:06

And you are it's, there's this constant a message of you are enough.

Acacia Gibson: 00:22:13

You do, you, you are.

Acacia Gibson: 00:22:15

The most important person ever, but also you need to be just like this very

Acacia Gibson: 00:22:21

popular person that you watch every day.

Acacia Gibson: 00:22:24

Yeah.

Acacia Gibson: 00:22:24

So it's very, it's like this mixed message of you, you be you and be the

Acacia Gibson: 00:22:29

best you and be unique, but also you won't be the best you until you have

Acacia Gibson: 00:22:34

this and this and this thing that

Khalil Burton: 00:22:35

everyone else is looking for.

Khalil Burton: 00:22:37

Right.

Khalil Burton: 00:22:37

Exactly.

Khalil Burton: 00:22:37

Yeah.

Khalil Burton: 00:22:37

And I think, you know, when I ask that question some of the things I

Khalil Burton: 00:22:41

think about though, too, There's this person that I desire to be, and I I'm

Khalil Burton: 00:22:46

constantly missing that mark, but it.

Khalil Burton: 00:22:48

You know, Christ is constantly reforming us and you use that word reforming

Khalil Burton: 00:22:52

and deforming is how I think about it.

Khalil Burton: 00:22:53

And so there's this biblical narrative in the Bible about you know,

Khalil Burton: 00:22:56

Babylon versus being God's people.

Khalil Burton: 00:22:59

And Babylon is this nation that is actively against God does not

Khalil Burton: 00:23:04

have the same morality as God.

Khalil Burton: 00:23:06

The same goals of God does not live for the worship of

Khalil Burton: 00:23:08

God, but the worship of self.

Khalil Burton: 00:23:10

And what Babylon does to anyone who is.

Khalil Burton: 00:23:14

Consumed by Babylon is it tries to assimilate everyone to be like Babylon.

Khalil Burton: 00:23:19

So if you, you know, for Israel, when they.

Khalil Burton: 00:23:21

Taken over by Babylonian captives.

Khalil Burton: 00:23:23

They were forced to wear the Babylonian clothing and do the Babylonian activities

Khalil Burton: 00:23:27

and the Babylonian rituals and habits and worship the Babylonian gods.

Khalil Burton: 00:23:31

And the whole point of that was that they would forget that they were Israelites,

Khalil Burton: 00:23:35

that they would forget who they were and who they were supposed to be.

Khalil Burton: 00:23:38

And they would be immersed in the wave of Babylon that there

Khalil Burton: 00:23:42

would be no power left in them to.

Khalil Burton: 00:23:44

Resist.

Khalil Burton: 00:23:45

Right, right.

Khalil Burton: 00:23:45

They would just be assimilated and Babylon would be stronger.

Khalil Burton: 00:23:48

Well, the same thing is true today.

Khalil Burton: 00:23:50

Sure.

Khalil Burton: 00:23:50

And we, as Christians are meant to be different than the society we live in.

Khalil Burton: 00:23:55

And.

Khalil Burton: 00:23:56

We don't realize that most of the patterns or the rhythms or the

Khalil Burton: 00:23:59

liturgies of our daily life are the same as our culture, right?

Khalil Burton: 00:24:02

So we listen to the same music and we watch the same movies and we

Khalil Burton: 00:24:06

pursue the same goals and activities, and try to reach the same goals

Khalil Burton: 00:24:09

in our careers without oftentimes.

Khalil Burton: 00:24:12

Asking yourself, if that is godly or if that it worships God or if

Khalil Burton: 00:24:15

that is pursuing something else.

Khalil Burton: 00:24:17

And so, you know, if, if someone battles with lustful thoughts, but you're

Khalil Burton: 00:24:22

listening to cultures, music and watching cultures, movies, it's no surprise

Khalil Burton: 00:24:26

because sexuality is the narrative of the culture and hyper sexualizing, everything.

Khalil Burton: 00:24:31

And so Romans 12 two says be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

Khalil Burton: 00:24:36

And renewing our mind requires putting off old things and putting on new things.

Khalil Burton: 00:24:40

So if you know, to bring it back to there's this person

Khalil Burton: 00:24:43

I wanna be, but I'm not him.

Khalil Burton: 00:24:45

I fall short.

Khalil Burton: 00:24:46

I, I miss that mark.

Khalil Burton: 00:24:47

Well, let's think about my daily rhythms because I'm practicing

Khalil Burton: 00:24:52

being a type of person.

Khalil Burton: 00:24:53

If I'm listening to lust filled music and watching lust filled movies, I

Khalil Burton: 00:24:58

am practicing being a lustful person.

Khalil Burton: 00:25:01

Right.

Khalil Burton: 00:25:01

And.

Khalil Burton: 00:25:02

Talking about forming and deforming.

Khalil Burton: 00:25:03

It's deforming me away from the ultimate goal.

Khalil Burton: 00:25:06

And I think that's something we're getting at here is our liturgies or

Khalil Burton: 00:25:10

rhythms that we could put in our life.

Khalil Burton: 00:25:11

There are actually practices that become habits that shape what we desire.

Khalil Burton: 00:25:16

Mm-hmm . And so if you are not what you think, but you are what you love.

Khalil Burton: 00:25:22

You, you are what you spend your time doing.

Khalil Burton: 00:25:24

Mm-hmm , you, you desire what you spend your time pursuing.

Khalil Burton: 00:25:28

So in order to be renewed to renew your mind, you have to change what

Khalil Burton: 00:25:32

you do and change what you pursue and change what you live for.

Khalil Burton: 00:25:35

And if someone wants to be a professional athlete, they cannot.

Khalil Burton: 00:25:38

Live certain habits.

Khalil Burton: 00:25:40

They have to pick up a daily practice and continue to be consistent with their,

Khalil Burton: 00:25:44

where their skills and abilities and exercise and condition, because that's how

Khalil Burton: 00:25:47

you become a type of person and the same thing can be done in our spiritual lives.

Khalil Burton: 00:25:51

And so the question that it made me ask was, wow, if there's these

Khalil Burton: 00:25:55

practices that I'm doing that are shaping me and I don't even realize.

Khalil Burton: 00:25:59

Are there practices, are there liturgies?

Khalil Burton: 00:26:02

Are there rituals that could shape me to be more like Jesus that are practices

Khalil Burton: 00:26:06

that I could make a regular part of my life so that instead of being shaped

Khalil Burton: 00:26:11

away from God, I am being shaped more and more towards God every day through

Khalil Burton: 00:26:15

these habits and these practices.

Khalil Burton: 00:26:17

And I would say to summarize the answer is yes.

Khalil Burton: 00:26:20

And on our show, we talk a lot about spiritual disciplines.

Khalil Burton: 00:26:23

Yeah, we do.

Khalil Burton: 00:26:23

And so I would say right now, those really are foundational.

Khalil Burton: 00:26:27

Litur.

Khalil Burton: 00:26:28

Spiritual disciplines of Bible reading and regular prayer and fasting

Khalil Burton: 00:26:33

and silence and solitude and, and scripture, meditation and memorization.

Khalil Burton: 00:26:37

These are pillar practices and habits that shape you to be like

Khalil Burton: 00:26:42

Christ and not like this world.

Khalil Burton: 00:26:44

And those are liturgies that we can put on.

Khalil Burton: 00:26:46

In our lives.

Khalil Burton: 00:26:47

And again, repetition habit, habit, habit changes our affections.

Khalil Burton: 00:26:51

It changes our desires.

Khalil Burton: 00:26:52

Cuz when you do something long enough, if you eat healthy long enough,

Khalil Burton: 00:26:56

you start to desire healthier food.

Khalil Burton: 00:26:58

Yeah.

Khalil Burton: 00:26:58

But if you never start, you never learn to.

Sean Silverii: 00:27:02

Yeah.

Sean Silverii: 00:27:02

Yeah.

Acacia Gibson: 00:27:03

Yeah.

Acacia Gibson: 00:27:03

You're you talking as you're talking, I'm reminded of the book

Acacia Gibson: 00:27:07

that I just finished atomic habits.

Acacia Gibson: 00:27:09

And.

Acacia Gibson: 00:27:11

Because for me, I can hear that all day long.

Acacia Gibson: 00:27:13

I can hear here are the spiritual disciplines that here's the list.

Acacia Gibson: 00:27:17

I used to try to look up all of them and keep a list and be like,

Acacia Gibson: 00:27:20

which ones do I wanna start?

Acacia Gibson: 00:27:21

Which ones do I wanna start?

Acacia Gibson: 00:27:22

And I, and the answer was all of them because I hadn't

Acacia Gibson: 00:27:24

done all of them but yeah.

Acacia Gibson: 00:27:26

But, and, and I would always try to like make up a way to

Acacia Gibson: 00:27:30

do it, but I could never do it.

Acacia Gibson: 00:27:32

Mm-hmm and the reason was I, I didn't.

Acacia Gibson: 00:27:35

Look through what my, I didn't take inventory of what

Acacia Gibson: 00:27:38

my habits were currently.

Acacia Gibson: 00:27:40

I didn't look, think through what my, my daily habits were.

Acacia Gibson: 00:27:45

And as I was reading this book, atomic habits was which really compliments

Acacia Gibson: 00:27:49

this book well, because it helped me.

Acacia Gibson: 00:27:53

in the practical, everyday application of new habits.

Acacia Gibson: 00:27:58

Mm-hmm and so one thing that I've been doing recently is with my calendar that

Acacia Gibson: 00:28:04

I keep every day, I am starting to add a new habit, which, and the way that I

Acacia Gibson: 00:28:10

think about it is what's a habit that I want to start to become the person

Acacia Gibson: 00:28:15

that, that I want to, to live like.

Acacia Gibson: 00:28:19

And the author.

Acacia Gibson: 00:28:21

James clear mm-hmm he says it's a vote, your, each of your habits, each of your

Acacia Gibson: 00:28:26

choices is a vote towards the person that you're, that you would love to be.

Acacia Gibson: 00:28:30

That's good.

Acacia Gibson: 00:28:31

And so, so I, one thing that he said to do is to one habit that you're

Acacia Gibson: 00:28:35

wanting to begin is to calendar it next to a habit that you already have.

Acacia Gibson: 00:28:41

So after I do this, That I'm going to do this as well.

Acacia Gibson: 00:28:45

And for me, it has really helped because I didn't think I was a morning person.

Acacia Gibson: 00:28:49

I actually said, I hate, like I was not a morning person.

Acacia Gibson: 00:28:53

I had to text my friends and say, I'm gonna be up by seven and I need to

Acacia Gibson: 00:28:57

text you otherwise, I'm still sleeping.

Acacia Gibson: 00:29:00

And accountability is great.

Acacia Gibson: 00:29:01

But one thing that I started doing was the night before.

Acacia Gibson: 00:29:04

During my nightly routine, I would set out the things that I was going to

Acacia Gibson: 00:29:08

read or write mm-hmm and then the next morning, so that would become at night.

Acacia Gibson: 00:29:13

And then in the next morning it would already be ready.

Acacia Gibson: 00:29:14

Mm-hmm it would be easily accessible for me to do the thing that I want

Acacia Gibson: 00:29:18

to become the type of person I'd make it easier for me to do those

Sean Silverii: 00:29:22

things.

Sean Silverii: 00:29:23

I think one of the things about these reads that we're talking

Sean Silverii: 00:29:28

about, and I know coil's gonna mention another one is that it is.

Sean Silverii: 00:29:33

A submission to the authority of Christ to king Jesus, the author of our story.

Sean Silverii: 00:29:40

And he's the greatest master that anyone could ever have.

Sean Silverii: 00:29:45

And what happens is it relieves us of any kind of responsibility or any kind

Sean Silverii: 00:29:51

of crushing weight of responsibility.

Sean Silverii: 00:29:56

Handle our own self mm-hmm as a, as God of the lives or as center

Sean Silverii: 00:30:01

of the universe or, or whatever.

Sean Silverii: 00:30:02

Cuz if we truly are our own person and truly we belong to no one or

Sean Silverii: 00:30:07

nothing yet we do at the same time, then it's a huge responsibility to

Sean Silverii: 00:30:13

feel like, oh my gosh, I fall short all the time of my own standard.

Sean Silverii: 00:30:18

I, the weight of.

Sean Silverii: 00:30:21

The expectations that I may or may not be placing on myself.

Sean Silverii: 00:30:25

It may be an outside source is crushing.

Sean Silverii: 00:30:28

What we're talking about right now is not necessarily a bunch of things you have to

Sean Silverii: 00:30:33

do, but it's it's what am I already doing?

Sean Silverii: 00:30:37

And I already know it's not bringing fulfillment.

Sean Silverii: 00:30:41

And so James K.

Sean Silverii: 00:30:43

Smith and, and others that were mentioning LAN noble there's.

Sean Silverii: 00:30:48

underlying either implicit or explicit current that says it's good to submit

Sean Silverii: 00:30:54

our lives to Jesus and, and our loves to him because in essence, the weight

Sean Silverii: 00:31:01

of responsibility or the expectations, it totally shifts to over to grace.

Sean Silverii: 00:31:07

And so like, Keisha, what you're saying here, like, so even when I think, okay,

Sean Silverii: 00:31:12

all these habits I want to do, like, I, I.

Sean Silverii: 00:31:15

I get joy out of doing these things.

Sean Silverii: 00:31:17

Yeah.

Sean Silverii: 00:31:17

They don't become necessarily have to mm-hmm but I look at these,

Sean Silverii: 00:31:20

I'm like, oh man, I fall short.

Sean Silverii: 00:31:21

I violate those habits and, and I, and I'm, it's, it's bumpy and messy,

Sean Silverii: 00:31:26

but it's, it's still a joyful process because I don't have to perform or hit

Sean Silverii: 00:31:33

a certain expectation or, or whatever.

Sean Silverii: 00:31:37

In order to receive my identity and, and sell forth and pats on the back or value.

Sean Silverii: 00:31:43

I'm already valued way before all of this.

Sean Silverii: 00:31:46

And, and so, and I know James K a Smith.

Sean Silverii: 00:31:49

He talks about that a little bit too, but you know, it's, it's, it's so

Sean Silverii: 00:31:53

different when I say when I get up and I say, okay, before I hit the ground, I'm

Sean Silverii: 00:32:00

going to spend 30 seconds in silence.

Sean Silverii: 00:32:03

You.

Sean Silverii: 00:32:04

I'm gonna meditate on a scripture that I'm read.

Sean Silverii: 00:32:07

And I do this, I do this in terms of rhythms too.

Sean Silverii: 00:32:10

And when I get it wrong or that I forget, or my kids come in way

Sean Silverii: 00:32:13

too early in my, in my bed and I'm already out the door in my car, in

Sean Silverii: 00:32:18

my truck and I forget there's grace.

Sean Silverii: 00:32:21

Like

Khalil Burton: 00:32:23

it's beautiful.

Khalil Burton: 00:32:24

I think you bring it back to the heart of it all is that we are worshipers.

Khalil Burton: 00:32:29

Right.

Khalil Burton: 00:32:29

And we will all worship something always, and we will all submit to something.

Khalil Burton: 00:32:33

So the crazy thing about formation or spiritual formation or being changed

Khalil Burton: 00:32:39

or made new is that we don't do it.

Khalil Burton: 00:32:41

We are not as powerful as we think we are.

Khalil Burton: 00:32:44

Right.

Khalil Burton: 00:32:44

And so who changes us to be like Christ?

Khalil Burton: 00:32:47

It's the holy spirit, right.

Khalil Burton: 00:32:48

He changes us, but also it's culture that makes us like culture.

Khalil Burton: 00:32:53

We, we don't change ourselves that much.

Khalil Burton: 00:32:56

We don't have that much power, but we can put ourselves in situations

Khalil Burton: 00:33:00

and positions where we, we are more susceptible to be changed.

Khalil Burton: 00:33:04

And when it comes to immersing ourselves in cultural habits and things and rhythms.

Khalil Burton: 00:33:10

We will become more like that.

Khalil Burton: 00:33:12

But as we immerse ourselves in the things of Christ and the things that

Khalil Burton: 00:33:16

are like Christ and the things that make us like him, we will be drawn that way.

Khalil Burton: 00:33:20

We will be shaped that way.

Khalil Burton: 00:33:22

Mm-hmm and, you know, I desire that, but if we think about our, our

Khalil Burton: 00:33:26

habits as like, kind of feeding our hungers, I, I was thinking about fast

Khalil Burton: 00:33:30

food and just use the food metaphor.

Khalil Burton: 00:33:32

I used to eat fast food all the time and didn't think anything of it.

Khalil Burton: 00:33:36

And so, and then eventually I remember, and I didn't have a desire to change.

Khalil Burton: 00:33:41

I enjoyed my McDonald's French fries sponsor us.

Khalil Burton: 00:33:44

But.

Khalil Burton: 00:33:46

I enjoyed it.

Khalil Burton: 00:33:47

I, I went after it.

Khalil Burton: 00:33:48

I pursued it.

Khalil Burton: 00:33:49

I paid for it, but then eventually I remember thinking I want to, I

Khalil Burton: 00:33:52

kind of desire a different diet.

Khalil Burton: 00:33:55

I want to eat a little healthier and so I wanted to eat healthier,

Khalil Burton: 00:33:58

but I still went for the fast food.

Khalil Burton: 00:34:00

So again, my desire, my heart, my what I thought I wanted

Khalil Burton: 00:34:04

still didn't reflect my habit.

Khalil Burton: 00:34:05

But over time, you start to make some habits of no, I'm gonna put

Khalil Burton: 00:34:08

better food in front of myself.

Khalil Burton: 00:34:10

And I'm not gonna even have my debit card on me, so I can't stop

Khalil Burton: 00:34:13

by McDonald's whatever you have to do to, to change your habits.

Khalil Burton: 00:34:17

Eventually you start doing that new thing and then you start

Khalil Burton: 00:34:19

to desire the healthier food.

Khalil Burton: 00:34:21

And then when you look at the junk food, it's like, I don't really want it as much.

Khalil Burton: 00:34:24

Mm-hmm and eventually you just don't really want it at all.

Khalil Burton: 00:34:27

And something, James Kay Smith says, he says our habits change our hungers, right?

Khalil Burton: 00:34:31

So we want to hunger for the things of God, but maybe our habits have made it.

Khalil Burton: 00:34:36

So we don't even really desire to change.

Khalil Burton: 00:34:37

Maybe you don't desire to listen to different music or desire.

Khalil Burton: 00:34:40

You wanna watch those shows.

Khalil Burton: 00:34:41

You wanna do those things.

Khalil Burton: 00:34:42

You wanna hang out with those friends.

Khalil Burton: 00:34:43

You wanna speak that way, but if you will put habits in.

Khalil Burton: 00:34:47

That draw you towards God, transform and renew your mind.

Khalil Burton: 00:34:50

Eventually those new habits will change your hungers to the point that you

Khalil Burton: 00:34:54

and many of our listeners, you guys have experienced this, where you go.

Khalil Burton: 00:34:57

I don't really wanna watch those movies anymore.

Khalil Burton: 00:34:59

I don't really wanna listen to that music anymore.

Khalil Burton: 00:35:01

I don't really wanna hear people talk like that because our habits change our

Khalil Burton: 00:35:05

hungers, and this is what we call it.

Khalil Burton: 00:35:07

Habituation.

Khalil Burton: 00:35:08

It's replacing habits with new habits and go back to what you were

Khalil Burton: 00:35:11

talking about with atomic habit.

Khalil Burton: 00:35:13

The premise of that book, which we'll put in the show notes as well,

Khalil Burton: 00:35:16

is that you make those bad habit.

Khalil Burton: 00:35:18

Harder and less attractive mm-hmm right.

Khalil Burton: 00:35:21

You make them painful to do, and you make the good habits really,

Khalil Burton: 00:35:24

really easy and really attractive.

Khalil Burton: 00:35:25

So if your bad habit is you look at your phone first, before

Khalil Burton: 00:35:29

anything mm-hmm and your good habit would be reading your Bible.

Khalil Burton: 00:35:32

First thing in the morning, then you put your phone all the way across the

Khalil Burton: 00:35:35

room and turned off and you have your Bible right by your bedside table.

Khalil Burton: 00:35:40

So that it's easier to get to that more desirable to get to that

Khalil Burton: 00:35:43

and harder to get to the bad one.

Khalil Burton: 00:35:45

And by doing that, you replace, that's kind of, part of the premise

Khalil Burton: 00:35:48

of atomic habits is make those, make those bad habits harder to get, to

Khalil Burton: 00:35:52

put 'em further away and put the good ones right in front of you.

Khalil Burton: 00:35:55

Yeah.

Khalil Burton: 00:35:55

And, and through that, we can start to replace some of these things.

Khalil Burton: 00:35:58

So, right with that in mind, And as we're kind of drawing it to a close in

Khalil Burton: 00:36:03

case we were thinking about just how do we, how do we begin to live this out?

Khalil Burton: 00:36:06

This idea that we are, what we love, that our habits or the liturgies and the

Khalil Burton: 00:36:10

rhythms of our life shape our affections.

Khalil Burton: 00:36:13

How do we start to live that out?

Khalil Burton: 00:36:15

How does that change?

Khalil Burton: 00:36:16

How we, we use our time or live our lives.

Khalil Burton: 00:36:18

. Acacia Gibson: Yeah, so I think it

Khalil Burton: 00:36:22

what Sean was saying, that it doesn't, it, it takes practice and it takes grace

Khalil Burton: 00:36:27

mm-hmm and it's, you're not going to just all of a sudden be this perfectly

Khalil Burton: 00:36:32

transformed human, but realizing.

Khalil Burton: 00:36:35

Like, that's hard for me because I'm a perfectionist, if I don't

Khalil Burton: 00:36:38

know exactly how to do it right before I try it, I don't wanna try.

Khalil Burton: 00:36:41

Cause I know I'm gonna fail.

Khalil Burton: 00:36:43

So for me, I have to have a growth mindset and know that this takes

Khalil Burton: 00:36:47

practice learning to love God, you have to teach yourself to love God.

Khalil Burton: 00:36:52

Right.

Khalil Burton: 00:36:53

And and that happens through the practices.

Khalil Burton: 00:36:55

And another thing I would say is to take inventory of your current habits, that was

Khalil Burton: 00:37:01

a really big game changer for me because.

Khalil Burton: 00:37:03

I like to think that I am what I think about.

Khalil Burton: 00:37:08

I like to think that I am the sum of my knowledge, but I have to really

Khalil Burton: 00:37:12

think about what cultures liturgies are and what those things, those

Khalil Burton: 00:37:18

narratives are that I'm subscribing to.

Khalil Burton: 00:37:20

And don't even realize it, the consumerism or the wanting more just taking inventory

Khalil Burton: 00:37:27

of what daily habits I already have.

Khalil Burton: 00:37:29

And then Reading about Jesus mm-hmm and reading about what,

Khalil Burton: 00:37:33

what were his daily habits?

Khalil Burton: 00:37:34

What did he do all the time?

Khalil Burton: 00:37:36

Right?

Khalil Burton: 00:37:36

What did he think about, what did he talk about?

Khalil Burton: 00:37:38

How can I replace what I don't want to be, who I don't want to be

Khalil Burton: 00:37:44

like anymore and put, put healthy food in front of me put right.

Khalil Burton: 00:37:48

Put those habits, make them more accessible, make them more attractive.

Khalil Burton: 00:37:53

And I would say for me, like you were talking about music and I, I, while I

Khalil Burton: 00:37:58

was reading this book, I was actually thinking about that because for me,

Khalil Burton: 00:38:02

I used to think that like, I used to listen to a lot of rap and it was just

Khalil Burton: 00:38:08

like, it was a vibe and it would be like, this is the mood that I'm in.

Khalil Burton: 00:38:12

Yeah.

Khalil Burton: 00:38:12

And I would be, but then I would listen to this music and it would

Khalil Burton: 00:38:14

put me, I would stay in that bad mood and it would fuel what I'm feeling.

Khalil Burton: 00:38:20

And so it felt like I was validating my feelings, but it, I was staying in that.

Khalil Burton: 00:38:24

And so once I surrounded myself with people who encouraged me and

Khalil Burton: 00:38:30

people who brought life and light and brought truth to things, feelings that

Khalil Burton: 00:38:35

weren't necessarily reflecting truth.

Khalil Burton: 00:38:38

And then then I started to realize that worship music can be really

Khalil Burton: 00:38:42

emotional and it can, it can validate your feelings, but also bring.

Khalil Burton: 00:38:47

So music was a big habit shift for me, where I don't even want to

Khalil Burton: 00:38:53

listen to certain music anymore.

Khalil Burton: 00:38:55

And I really desire.

Khalil Burton: 00:38:56

It's a desire of mine that it's a hunger that's fulfilled when I get to worship

Khalil Burton: 00:39:00

Jesus, even when I'm not feeling like

Sean Silverii: 00:39:03

it.

Sean Silverii: 00:39:03

Yeah.

Sean Silverii: 00:39:04

And I would add onto that Alan Noble in his book, you, your the belonging book.

Sean Silverii: 00:39:08

I can't remember the title right now, but , he talks about.

Sean Silverii: 00:39:13

We are all prone to self-medicate and how we are so overly saturated

Sean Silverii: 00:39:18

with medication and not just pills, but you know, every, in every aspect.

Sean Silverii: 00:39:24

So, to take inventory and see, what am I self-medicating with?

Sean Silverii: 00:39:27

Is it the shopping bug?

Sean Silverii: 00:39:29

Every time I get a package.

Sean Silverii: 00:39:32

With that Amazon smile on my door.

Sean Silverii: 00:39:35

What does it do to me?

Sean Silverii: 00:39:37

You know?

Sean Silverii: 00:39:37

And then what's the, the elation there.

Sean Silverii: 00:39:39

And then the, and then the drop off what am I consuming in terms of

Sean Silverii: 00:39:42

media, in terms of food or drink?

Sean Silverii: 00:39:45

We all are prone to self-medicate or to be addicted to something.

Sean Silverii: 00:39:49

And.

Sean Silverii: 00:39:50

I think some statistics that anyway, I won't get into all the statistics, but

Sean Silverii: 00:39:53

cuz I know we gotta wrap up, but I think that's really good in terms of inventory.

Sean Silverii: 00:39:57

Okay.

Sean Silverii: 00:39:57

Wait a minute.

Sean Silverii: 00:39:58

Let me pause.

Sean Silverii: 00:40:00

When I am in my highs, what am I, what do I do?

Sean Silverii: 00:40:04

And when I'm in my lows, what do I do?

Sean Silverii: 00:40:07

Like whatever I turn to that is an indicator.

Sean Silverii: 00:40:12

It it's revealing your loves mm-hmm in some sense.

Sean Silverii: 00:40:15

And so, that's another way to take some inventory.

Sean Silverii: 00:40:18

I think that's a great place to really start

Khalil Burton: 00:40:20

to really begin.

Khalil Burton: 00:40:21

Yeah.

Khalil Burton: 00:40:21

And to add a couple things and give a book too.

Khalil Burton: 00:40:25

I'll recommend the common rule by Justin Whitmore early.

Khalil Burton: 00:40:28

This is a kind of a.

Khalil Burton: 00:40:30

I highly recommend.

Khalil Burton: 00:40:30

We highly recommend reading you are what you love.

Khalil Burton: 00:40:33

Mm-hmm I think it's a great, great first dive into this, especially the first

Khalil Burton: 00:40:37

four chapters of the book mm-hmm . Yeah.

Khalil Burton: 00:40:38

And then after that the common rule actually builds out of this book, right?

Khalil Burton: 00:40:42

It's a different author, but he cites this book as and this idea as

Khalil Burton: 00:40:46

the foundation of his book and he provides a lot of really practical.

Khalil Burton: 00:40:51

Liturgies that you can put in your life, very practical ones having to do with

Khalil Burton: 00:40:54

the way you use your phone, the way you spend time in community with other people

Khalil Burton: 00:40:58

where it's not more things you have to do.

Khalil Burton: 00:41:00

It's just new habits you can have with the things you already interact

Khalil Burton: 00:41:04

with that shape, who you are.

Khalil Burton: 00:41:06

And so check out common rule.

Khalil Burton: 00:41:07

It'll be in the show notes as well.

Khalil Burton: 00:41:08

But then also take an inventory of some of the influences in your life.

Khalil Burton: 00:41:12

We use this idea of, there are things that form us into the image of God, and there

Khalil Burton: 00:41:16

are things that deform us away from it.

Khalil Burton: 00:41:18

So, you know, if you're listening to lots of political news and commentary,

Khalil Burton: 00:41:22

it's forming your thoughts and your world being your perspective,

Khalil Burton: 00:41:25

maybe you replace some of that time with scripture and God's word.

Khalil Burton: 00:41:27

Like you said, secular music.

Khalil Burton: 00:41:29

Maybe taking some time to listen to some worship music or spend time in meditation

Khalil Burton: 00:41:33

on the scripture take inventory of the movies and the shows that you're watching

Khalil Burton: 00:41:37

and ask yourself, are these deforming me away from the image of God or are they

Khalil Burton: 00:41:40

forming me into the image of God more?

Khalil Burton: 00:41:43

Think about how, like you said, shopping, how you spend your money, how you

Khalil Burton: 00:41:47

utilize your tools and your resources.

Khalil Burton: 00:41:48

Are these moving me towards individualism and selfishness or generosity in

Khalil Burton: 00:41:53

Christlikeness and just take an inventory of the rhythms in your daily.

Khalil Burton: 00:41:58

and think about if there's a healthier rhythm to replace it.

Khalil Burton: 00:42:01

Mm-hmm . And as we make those little shifts and little change, It changes

Khalil Burton: 00:42:05

everything because we are transformed by the renewing of our mind through

Khalil Burton: 00:42:09

repetition, repetition, repetition, and sometimes repetition can feel inauthentic.

Khalil Burton: 00:42:15

But no basketball player would say that repetition of practice, no

Khalil Burton: 00:42:18

soccer player would say that no classical piano player would say that.

Khalil Burton: 00:42:21

In fact, repetition is the only way to true formation and true change

Khalil Burton: 00:42:26

mm-hmm . And I think sometimes we think we, we get that a little often our in

Khalil Burton: 00:42:30

our discipleship mm-hmm but what are some disciplines you could practice?

Khalil Burton: 00:42:33

And embrace repetitively that would change you into the image of God and change your

Khalil Burton: 00:42:38

affections and your desires towards him.

Khalil Burton: 00:42:40

Mm-hmm we're gonna

Sean Silverii: 00:42:41

give you the last word.

Sean Silverii: 00:42:43

Oh, okay.

Sean Silverii: 00:42:43

SHA we want, we want to what's the, the last word will go to you.

Sean Silverii: 00:42:49

No pressure.

Sean Silverii: 00:42:51

. Mm,

Acacia Gibson: 00:42:53

well

Sean Silverii: 00:42:57

me think

Khalil Burton: 00:42:58

no help.

Khalil Burton: 00:42:59

Be a final encouragement even.

Khalil Burton: 00:43:01

Yeah.

Sean Silverii: 00:43:02

Even like a final encouragement.

Acacia Gibson: 00:43:03

Well, I would say don't throw all of your bad habits.

Acacia Gibson: 00:43:11

Like don't throw your entire routine out and try to do a

Acacia Gibson: 00:43:15

hundred million things new tonight.

Acacia Gibson: 00:43:18

mm-hmm yeah.

Acacia Gibson: 00:43:19

Yeah.

Acacia Gibson: 00:43:19

I would say do a little bit at a time, start with the basics

Acacia Gibson: 00:43:22

and I would say your physical.

Acacia Gibson: 00:43:26

Will have an effect on your spiritual health mm-hmm . So I think even

Acacia Gibson: 00:43:30

starting with brushing your teeth in the morning, making your bed,

Acacia Gibson: 00:43:34

when you get out of it maybe it's, I don't know, taking a shower or eating

Acacia Gibson: 00:43:38

healthier, start with those things, and then you'll be in a, a good mindset

Acacia Gibson: 00:43:44

physically be hydrated and all of that.

Acacia Gibson: 00:43:46

And then, and then start building in the.

Acacia Gibson: 00:43:51

Daily prayer and the daily reading of scripture.

Acacia Gibson: 00:43:53

And I would say, start with the basics and don't feel like you have to be

Acacia Gibson: 00:43:58

just like Jesus and have all of these disciples and be so wise tomorrow.

Acacia Gibson: 00:44:03

You.

Acacia Gibson: 00:44:04

Start small and have give yourself grace

Sean Silverii: 00:44:07

liturgies of the ordinary.

Sean Silverii: 00:44:08

Yeah,

Khalil Burton: 00:44:08

start small.

Khalil Burton: 00:44:09

Start small.

Khalil Burton: 00:44:09

Give yourself grace.

Khalil Burton: 00:44:11

Acacia, thanks for being around the table with us.

Khalil Burton: 00:44:12

Thank you.

Khalil Burton: 00:44:13

Yeah.

Khalil Burton: 00:44:13

Thank you for inviting me.

Khalil Burton: 00:44:13

Thanks for nerding now, of course.

Khalil Burton: 00:44:15

And thank you listeners, O as always for listening to the welcome to table podcast.

Khalil Burton: 00:44:20

Please show your appreciation for Keisha by giving us a rating

Khalil Burton: 00:44:23

and review leave your comments.

Khalil Burton: 00:44:24

We love to see them.

Khalil Burton: 00:44:26

And you can always subscribe, follow, share these episodes with someone

Khalil Burton: 00:44:30

because we really hope that this will be a resource that just betters

Khalil Burton: 00:44:34

people serves them, helps people grow in their relationship with God.

Khalil Burton: 00:44:37

We know so many of us can feel stuck at.

Khalil Burton: 00:44:40

We just need something in our corner to help us take that next step.

Khalil Burton: 00:44:43

So you could be that friend who shares that next step with someone

Khalil Burton: 00:44:46

and mean the world for us, mean the world to them and tell our next show.

Khalil Burton: 00:44:50

Keep living the faith.

Khalil Burton: 00:44:51

Have a

Sean Silverii: 00:44:51

good one.