Learn more and connect with Logan Rivenes:

• Logan’s LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/loganrivenes/
• Red Bike Marketing - https://redbikemarketing.com/
• Demand Gen Confidential Podcast - https://redbikemarketing.com/demand-gen-confidential/ 
• HR Bench Pulse Podcast - http://www.hrbench.com/resource/pulse

--

Landed a Job with AI Agents

“I’m of the opinion that out of the box is for amateurs.” – Logan Rivenes

When layoffs and market shifts put pressure on job seekers, Logan Rivenes, demand generation veteran and host of Demand Gen Confidential, turned to AI agents not just as a side project but as a lifeline. With 15 years of experience scaling pipeline for B2B companies, Logan knew how to work systems. What he did not expect was that building agents would land him his next big role at HRBench.

The DIY Mindset

Logan describes himself as a sales rep turned marketer with a love for tinkering. That do-it-yourself streak led him to push past “out of the box” defaults in both marketing automation and AI. Rather than rely on pre-built templates, he stitched together free tools like Clay, Apollo, and Google Sheets with Agent.ai webhooks to create a fully customized job-hunting workflow.

“Every post is basically a thousand applications… How am I gonna get through the noise?”

The Job Search Agent Stack

Logan’s system started with firmographic filters (HR tech, company size) in Apollo, cross-checked in Clay, then piped into Google Sheets. From there:

• Agent.ai webhook calls scanned job boards and company sites directly.
• A validation agent enriched company profiles with funding and context.
• Manual plus AI-assisted cover letter drafting layered personalization on top.

The scale was impressive:

“The total company list was 5,000… whittled down to 10 or 15 good jobs I could apply for.”

This was not a spray-and-pray approach. It was targeted, systematic, and repeatable.

The Outcome

The process worked.

“I landed a gig through this AI builder.”

Logan joined HRBench, an HR data company, and immediately began applying lessons from agent building into his marketing workflows. For him, the takeaway was clear: agents are not abstract toys. They are practical leverage.

Lessons for Builders

Logan’s story highlights several principles that builders can carry into their own projects. First, agent design is about workflows, not lines of code. He compares building with Agent.ai to designing a HubSpot workflow or drawing a flowchart in Miro. Once you know the outcome you want, you can break the process into steps and link them together. That mindset lowers the barrier to entry for anyone who has ever worked with automation.

Another lesson is the importance of resourcefulness. Logan deliberately avoided expensive SaaS tiers by piecing together free versions of Clay, Apollo, and Google Sheets, then connecting them through simple webhook calls. It required more manual effort, but it also made the solution more accessible and replicable. He encourages builders to focus first on solving the problem with whatever is at hand, rather than waiting for perfect conditions or full-featured subscriptions.

Finally, Logan underscores the value of tinkering. Just as in his DIY home projects, he believes the biggest hurdle is choosing what to build and being willing to open the wall to see what is behind it. Some agents will stall, others will be clunky, but the act of trying creates learning. For Logan, playful side projects like an “AI general manager” for his fantasy football league sharpened the skills that later applied to professional work. The experimentation itself is the training ground.

Need Help Landing a New Job?

Logan is open to sharing the very agent he used for his job hunt.

“If you are in the job hunt or want the agent I used, just reach out and I’ll give it to you and teach you how to use it.”

Awesome. Well, Logan, thanks so much for taking the time to join me for this conversation. Really looking forward to talking with you today and how I like to start all of these. Would love for you just to kind of share a little bit about your origin story, your background and kind of, you know, what brought you to what you're doing today and kind of how it leads into this AI conversation.

Yeah, I mean, I'm a sales rep turned marketer. I feel like that has a unique background in itself. I like coffee, old bikes, old boats have a 79 ski nautique that I inherited. So I like to water ski there and I love doing hands-on DIY work on my house. Just redid my laundry room and bathroom. And so that was a lot of fun.

I feel like that DIY nature is kind of what led me to building not only workflows throughout my career for marketing ops, but also just generally tinkering with AI and the workflows that an agent you can build with that. The one nature I think kind of me even into my career is something that I think led me there.

Yeah.

hear that a lot from a lot of kind of the builders right like they're much tinkerers entrepreneurs but people that just like want to go figure it out right instead of buy off the sell shelf solution like how does this actually work let me see if I can do it myself and then where does that take me a lot of that

Yeah. I mean, I'm of the opinion that out of the box is for amateurs. So like when you buy software or buy anything, what they give you out of the box is for beginners. And I think to really get it to customize to your business and your needs, you have to tinker it. I've heard a lot, you know, throughout my career, some people don't like that because they're like, well, why does it have to be so custom?

Hmm.

And my general thought like is the issue that I have with the out of the box partially is that the company that makes the software does whatever it is that you're trying to do is forcing you to think like them. They're forcing you to basically see their worldview. I mean, Salesforce did it for a whole cohort of people with leads, contacts, campaigns, the way ops work, the way attribution works.

Mm.

HubSpot did it for Embound Marketing and a lot of that. so I just, I think out of the box is for amateurs. And I encourage everybody to start there and to learn because that is where you start, but move past it and go custom and work to be custom because your business has unique needs. Everyone does. And it forced you to think very hard about what you're doing, I think.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's really it. I'm curious like let's double click on that just for a second like Do you feel like AI is kind of bringing that to everybody now, right because AI is able to customize stuff in such a deeper level where yes You needed to buy a software solution out the body, but now like it started with low code no code solutions But now with things like agents And what AI can do with cursor and all well just go

build your own software solution or have a one man person who can kind of customize exactly what you need for the purpose built solution you need, right? It's almost like 3D printing software in a way, right?

Yeah, I mean it can, like you can still get into the trap of out of the box even with AI, because using pre-built agents, like if you're running in clay, a lot of stuff is pre-built in clay and like Apollo, so a lot of people are wrapping AI into their solution and then it's out of the box again. But to your point, yes, you can build your own stuff because you can go...

Yeah.

do lovable, you can use Agent AI, you can use Chachabi-T to learn how to build it yourself. So yes, you can go that route, but I think a lot of AI is just getting wrapped into other SAS tools. So I mean, it depends on how you're going to view your use of AI, I think is probably a bit of that.

Totally. Totally. So let's dive a little bit more into like your specific story here, right? What's super interesting when our mutual friend Harry Hawk kind of told me, hey, you gotta talk to Logan here. He's got a really cool story about how kind of he was able to go into Agent AI and hack together some kind of existing agents out there to kind of find a job, right? And I think that's so timely with what's going on for a lot of people in the tech space. Like it's weird right now. Just leave it that way.

it... it... for sure.

And a lot of people are trying to find jobs, but like you've got a really interesting story how your do-it-yourself It's kind of mentality is kind of like try to put this together like get you into building agents to like a solve a very Purpose driven problem right there. Right? Tell us a little bit more about that

Yeah, I mean, where should we begin with that, I guess? Just the agent itself, or...?

Well, let's take a step back and kind of talk about, as you were kind of thinking about that, how you went about thinking about it, right? Before even a direct agent, right? Was it more of the thought process, the journey of, all right, I know I want to work for certain companies, I'm looking for certain roles. How does all that bleed together? And what was your order of operations there to think of, even before you could put together a workflow of different tools?

Yeah, I mean, the biggest thing, like people that are still out there job hunting, you probably see it, especially if you're looking for remote or if you're in tech. Every post is basically a thousand applications. And I think a lot of this is somewhat unique to white collar work, if you will. But my thought was, you know, how am I gonna get in, get the no-

Mm-hmm.

through the noise of those thousand applications. Like that is the world we live in. Like, so you're not gonna avoid that and, you know, to get your next gig. And so really I was like, well, I have a few types of companies that I wanna work for. Like I've been in HR tech for quite a long time, for quite a while, particularly the frontline tech space. And I like frontline work. I think it's super...

Yeah.

unique and it's relatively underserved and it's not sitting in the same AI disruption, over saturation of workers kind of a thing that you're seeing in consolidation that you're seeing in white collar. So it's just a lot more dynamic space. So I said, okay, well, there's a set of companies that I want to work for and based on firmographics. a certain size, like I was

Yeah.

I'm kind trying to look to go back to IC marketing work again, just because you're seeing marketing teams get consolidated, like private equity. You see it all the private equity companies, which I don't necessarily disagree with per se, but that's just the world that's happening. And so people are going to have to do more with less. And so I was like, okay, well, I want to be a little more hands-on. I'm in demand gen and pipeline gen.

Yeah.

So that means that I needed to look for semi-smaller companies in HR tech and see if they're hiring. And to be honest, LinkedIn's filters are terrible for that. You can't actually filter for that. There's no other job boards that you can actually filter for that and get on the firmographic side in that space. So I had to figure out, okay, so if I have a list of companies that I wanna work for,

How do I figure out if there's anything out there? And so my initial thought was actually just to start cold emailing, which I did start doing and say like, hey, do you need some consulting work? know, could I help you with your website? Like, do you need more demo class? That kind of stuff. And then Harry, our mutual friend sent over, I don't know if I'm pronouncing his name right, but Vikram was with agent.ai. He's on LinkedIn. him. He's like, hey,

Mmm.

Yeah.

Okay, yeah.

He built this agent, you should take a look at it. And so I looked at it it basically was doing the next step that I needed, which was scraping the company websites to see and all job boards to find out if they were hiring. And then I could start finding out if people were hiring. And some people are opting not to put their job posts on LinkedIn.

for the exact reason we started this conversation with a thousand applications in like two hours. And so that's, that's how I started rolling it and trying to find something.

Yeah.

Well, let me ask you this too, were you specifically looking for remote jobs?

I was well, I didn't need it to be remote, but it was either remote or the Sacramento area and Sacramento just doesn't have a tech scene. I mean there are some tech companies. Yeah.

yeah yeah i think that's what a lot of people are seeing yeah like they especially you mentioned white collar right a lot of white collar work now is partially or fully remote which opens up the pool right like if it's if it's geolocated to sacramento for example like you're only going to have certain people that can even apply for those roles but when it's you know it's it's fully remote you get people both international along with all the people the united states that are kind of applying which way opens up

Whether the job could accept international people or not. They're still all applying

Yeah. And like I've been remote more than I've been in an office throughout my career. Like I started out in outside sales. That's technically remote. And then basically I think I've spent like three years of my entire 15 year career remote, but pre pandemic remote, it wasn't as popular. I don't think people realized how accessible it was. So was kind of this niche thing that was happening. And I think you're, you're the same.

Sure.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And so like while it was happening, weren't having thousands and thousands of people apply. So it was like just anything else.

Yeah, yeah, the bad joke is my mom used or my wife used to think I was crazy like how do you stay at home all time? And then COVID happened and then she got a taste of it now their company only goes into the office one day a week, but she's like, it's Wednesday And I think a lot of people kind of felt that but but I mean, you know this too Like there's only a very certain type of person that can really fully work remote Like it's not the kind of job. They're like, let me go check the laundry. let's go to Starbucks like

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

you sit down and like put your blinders on and just like start cranking along.

Yeah. mean, it's, it's a job. I mean, I have a dedicated place. Like where you see me now is where I do work. It's like, I go to the office and all of that. I mean, yeah, there, there definitely is a certain set of parameters that you have to do. it's like you said, it's not so that you can do all of your other, other stuff during it. Not that I'm trying to validate that, but that, I mean, there was a little bit of that.

Yeah.

yeah yeah alright so you kinda you got access to this agent it started pulling all the data for you like alright let's pick up there like so you you started putting it to a clay table as we were kind of talking about to kind of start piercing it or or parsing it apart and and then what like what like what happened next

So, okay. So the whole flow is I started out using Clay's keywords and their company research to find companies. And so then I started spot checking because there, knew there was a couple of companies that should show up on that list and for whatever reason, so I was kind of disappointed with the keywords, not to dog anybody in particular, any company in particular, but so then I knew of Apollo. Are they .io or .com or .io?

Mm-hmm.

I it's IO, yeah, yeah, the big zoom info competitor.

I knew of Apollo, and so I started checking their company research, and their keywords actually were quite good. And the keywords meaning you can say all the AI company descriptor companies allow you to say HR tech, and it'll pull all the companies that are considered HR tech. I would do maintenance tech.

Mm-hmm.

If you're in a manufacturing plant, there's a whole slew of companies creating software to help with scheduled maintenance, preventative maintenance, all this stuff. did, what else? Like there's a whole slew of them. but HR tech was a big one that I was interested in. And so basically I would go through, I had the company sizes, get those, and then you have to, take out, especially in HR, you have to take out all the recruiting agencies and

and things you can do that. And so then I would place those into specific lists within Apollo. Because then once they're on a list, you can export all of that data. And this is all on their free plan. So one of the big kickers is Apollo, Clay, all these people do show you companies that are hiring and have job descriptions out of the box. But you got to pay for it. When you're unemployed, you don't really want to pay for it.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

So for anybody that's in the job hunt, this is all using the free plans with a little bit of manual work so that you can kind of have the best of both worlds. So then I would put that into Google Sheets. Then I'd import that into a clay table. And what I loved about clay, and I'm not like a, I don't know that much about clay and how clay works, and this is the only real way that I've used it, but what I love is that they, it's basically,

Right.

In the way that I used it, because I don't want to shortchange all of their value props, but the way I used it was basically a spreadsheet that calls webhooks. so then once I got all the companies into the clay table, you're able to take an agent.ai webhook call. I don't know what they call it now or what it's called, but basically it's a URL they can call as a webhook.

Sure.

webhook.

and run the agent and then bring it back into the clay table for you. So if you're like, I'm a big HubSpot guy. So if you've done HubSpot and you've thrown web hooks through their workflows, it's the same concept. But it's doing it out of a spreadsheet rather than a workflow. So everything can populate in tables. And so then it would basically in the clay table run the agent based on a couple of different job keywords that I was looking for.

Nice.

go ping and find anybody with job descriptions, bring them back in and tell me, yes, no, it had it. And so then I wasn't sophisticated enough at the time to get it to then parse it so that it gave me a nice little synopsis, know, summary list. I take that and put it into a Google sheet, filter it, and then find all of the ones that looked good and then kind of comb through it, make sure that the listing was still active. And then for the ones that were active, I

Sure.

was your company list? I'm curious.

Uh, the total company list was 5,000, uh, across the various, uh, types of software companies I was looking for. So it was roughly about 5,000, but out of that at any given time, it'd get whittled down to, you know, 10 or 15 good jobs that I could apply for that I would want to. Um, and I do this on roughly like a two or three week basis.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, but still like like that takes a ton of time somebody who's been out in the market not too recently just looking at stuff like it takes so much time and like you said the only real usable options linkedin Indeed's got some but linkedin has most but it's just it's overwhelming and everything that's on linkedin and your point like I know the companies I want let me see what they have job listed and not everyone i'm even posting to linkedin

Yeah.

It is.

Correct.

but i could get this stuff and then kinda it's out there doing all this work for me a very specific task return it to me and then i could just choose what i want to do with it so once you did that like did you have any other agents kind of in the loop that would write you up cover letters or or try to do the application process too or are you kind of manually handling that piece

So I slightly manually handled that piece. in that process, did do, there was a second agent that ran through that clay table that did extra company research and validated. So I knew a little bit more about the company, but then I just, yeah. And so populate like funding rounds, what they did, like that kind of stuff. But then I just used ChatGBT.

So it helped you do your homework.

And I didn't do any automated AI cover letters. I looked at some of the companies that were doing that and it just didn't feel like, I don't know, it didn't feel like something that I was interested in. You can do that and, you know, people can and that's fine. It just wasn't my style. Because once I get something that I'm interested in, like I'll go in and do deep research, like I'll then draft a cover letter resume, I'll outreach to a couple of the people.

Yeah.

in the company and try to get, I basically take my sales background and do what a prospector would do. So it's not just sending in the application and the hit rates usually go up quite a bit on that to at least get like an answer. But what I would do is I work

Yeah,

Yeah, yeah.

through a project on ChatGPT, I wrote my cover letters, like, and then I put them in there and said, hey, can you work with me on customizing a few of these different lines and stuff like that to kind of do it at scale, but not excessive. Like in that realm, I didn't do excessive AI writing or ChatGPT. And to be honest, I wasn't that good at it yet, of homing it to make it not sound, to make it more of a strategic partner than just a writer.

Yeah.

So that was partially a little bit, but yeah. But I did have a project dedicated to like my cover letter, you know, and I could iterate on it and try and get it to be a little bit better at scale.

Yeah, it's got a little bit of memory there about you. So you kind of mentioned kind of your sales background. I think it's important to kind of call out here, like you're a sales marketing person. You're not a software engineer and able to kind of piece together some of these things and using these agents and AI tools to like do a lot of this stuff at scale that could not have been done five years ago, right?

Yeah. Yeah. mean, like, yes, I am a sales and marketing person. I have done coding stuff in the past. like I did teach myself HTML, JavaScript and CSS long ago. So I can read it and iterate on it now. Because one of the interesting things in marketing is there's

Okay.

Now I run in, like there's two sets of people, like, and you're probably in this, like I know Harry Hawk's in this, like I've got other colleagues in this, and it's like, it's almost the GTM separator. Like, what is your first instinct when you hear GTM? And the earlier group of people think Google Tag Manager, the later group of people think GoToMarket. And the people who think I think Google Tag Manager,

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

you had to actually do a little bit of coding in digital marketing. You had to know how the tags worked. You still have to do some of that, but a lot of people outsource that to agencies. Doing emails, you had to go in and update the HTML on their websites. It was all WordPress, so you had to go in a lot less WYSIWYG. I'm in Webflow now, and it's all drag and drop divs and everything. So it's slightly different.

Sure.

Right.

I already had some of that background and then I did marketing ops and where I did marketing ops, was an engineering led org and we used segment and so everything was JSON payloads. And so there was a lot of more technical side of marketing ops in there versus just straight out of HubSpot type stuff. So all of that background, like

Sure.

there's a little bit of technical side on there. So once it came to understanding some of the fundamentals of like how JSON payloads look, how engineering gets coded, like how people break stuff up, you know, I was able to then do AI agents, I think a little bit easier, not to toot my own horn, but it wasn't a blank slate. Now, if you don't have any of that, you can...

No, you had some experience. Yeah.

work through Chetchabit to have Chetchabit teach you how to do it. Like that is absolutely possible. And it's not that long. It'd take you a week. You know, if that's something that you're doing.

that is what I've just had a conversation last week where somebody else said that same thing. Errol, if you're listening to this, another sales manager who just said like, you try to, chat GPT will walk you through it and it'll go as fast or slow as you want. Just don't be afraid to just kind of ask the questions. But what I'm really kind of hearing you say, it's like, yes, you've got some experience with tech, but you're also, a lot of this stuff just workflow building, right? Like if you know the kind of the flow that you want to solve in the,

Yeah. Yep.

order of operations to troubleshoot or build your process, just break that stuff up and get technical where you can and chat will help you fill in the blanks.

Yeah, and the thing about AI agents, like AI isn't necessarily like this. Well, it might be. you know, I do dabble in AI, but I'm not like, I have buddies who are way deeper in this than I am. But the AI agent specifically and like building AI, you know, an agent.ai, it really is like a workflow. So all you have to do is think about workflows and how you want things to work.

in if-then statements and then, I mean, ultimately you need to figure out your end goal. Like what are you trying to do? And then work through if-then statements down the list of how things work. So definitely if you've built a HubSpot workflow, you can build an agent.ai or any other agent builder, I think, in my opinion, because you have fundamentals from that. And so...

Nice, yeah. I agree, I agree.

I think that's just the biggest thing. And then if you just think of like, if you've ever built, you know, flow charts in like Lucidchart or Miro or Miro or any of those, it's really just like that too.

Yeah, yeah, you're just putting a little bit more flesh into the elements So just to make sure we close kind of loop on the the story like tell us how it ended right like ultimately it helped you land kind of Working this whole process kind of enabled you to kind of land in your current role now, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I did find a company that wasn't impacted on applications and that was really great, HR Bench. And it was super in my wheelhouse. It's all HR data. Coming from the data marketing side, already, like that proclivity was already there. So it was super interesting and it's HR tech. And it's...

I landed a gig through this AI builder. That's ultimately what happened. And so we're building up the marketing engine and the team's been together for two decades, built and sold another company. So it's a lot of fun. I mean, you should go check us out, especially if anybody in your subscriber base is in HR. So we've got podcast coming out and customer stories and all sorts of fun stuff.

Hmm.

Wow.

Yeah, get some plugs! Get some plugs for some stuff now. I'll make sure they all get into the show notes, but if you've got anything specific you want to call out, now's a good time at end of the show, so go for it.

Yeah, yeah. mean, we've got, I just came up with the name of the podcast. So we have a few, few recordings, but it'll be called Pulse with HR Bench. We're interviewing private equity based HR leaders. And so that's a big market is just HR leaders who are operating in the private equity space. I mean, I my own podcast, Demand Gen Confidential. So you can always check that out.

Make sure they all get in the show notes. Yeah, I'm curious now Logan, now that you've had a chance to kind of build some of these kind of building stuff with agents and you've done clearly a lot of workflow stuff in the past, like how do you compare the two, right? Like to traditional marketing automation versus what you can kind of do with AI tools and agents, like what do you feel like this is unlocked or opened up that you couldn't do before? And like, where do you see this stuff going?

Yeah. Yeah.

One of the best ones I like is the web scraping capabilities and the data enrichment capabilities from AI. And so that portion of it unlocks a ton. Just being able to get information ingested and more of it so that you can create more personalization. I think that's like a big part of it. Then the next piece is just, I mean,

Hmm.

The next one is research. Research is a big one. So that research gives you a little bit more background on stuff. So then you can be more personal. You can understand stuff. And then efficiency at scale. Like one of the big ones that kind of through this year that I've decided is a big one for marketing. These types of conversations I think is like the last frontier of marketing because everything else is just AI.

Yeah.

And yes, you could AI these conversations, but people know that at least a little bit. And so video first content. So it's doing these types of conversations and then taking the thoughts and ideas and things that we've discussed and translate that into other marketing distribution portions. So you can translate it into blog posts, LinkedIn posts, easier and at scale, because now you have the transcripts for it.

Yeah, yeah.

It's so true. I do a ton of that. look at all the stuff we produce from these episodes. It's all from the transcript.

Yeah.

Yeah, and I mean, and some people are better at writing first than talking first, and that's fine. Like you can do whatever it is, but for those that can talk through their ideas easier and then translate it into other stuff is a big one. So I think video first content is kind of one of the marketing things that I've seen change. So those are just a couple of the areas that I think are being unlocked and there's tons of them.

other ones that other people are dabbling in that are far more advanced than I am.

Yeah, what else do do with agents now? Like you start to dabble with anything? Like you got any any new agents kind of on the horizon or things that you're building or thinking about?

I do, but you're gonna have to block my fantasy football league from the next one because you can't actually know. Actually, I have...

uh-oh uh-oh are you playing with a bunch of friends or is it a bunch of random people in yahoo or something?

No, it's friends. But I haven't been as active with it, but I did build an AI general manager for my fantasy team because my fantasy team is terrible. So I've gotten myself into two dynasty leagues. So if anybody's super in the weeds of fantasy, you have to keep these leagues going and my team is terrible. And so in the off season, I was like, all right, I'm going to build an AI agent and see if an AI agent can do better than me because...

Keepers, yeah.

haha

I'm clearly not doing well. So I used AI to build an app that pulls into Google Sheets, at least, all of the free agents in my league, everybody's team current, and then I can put that in Chat GPT to then help me figure out where trade opportunities are and what the right people to pick up off the waiver wires are because it can

ice

Hmm.

go out at scale and do research.

How's that going for you? You starting to win some games? You got everybody on their back heels now?

No, no, definitely not. It's super clunky still. So I'm actually, think I need to build it into an actual app so that I can pull it in real time because it's really quite clunky to get everything. But the biggest piece is getting an accurate snapshot of the league at any one moment that you're gonna then go start doing research with it. And that's the hardest part. Now you can go to like fantasy pros and

Yeah.

Some of them have it, but I used fantasy pros and had very little success with anything legitimate. Yeah.

goes back to the beginning of our conversation, right? You can use these out of the box solutions, but it's not going to be as good as something that's customized around your specific league with your team built out and who owns what. Do you stick it? I'm curious though, like maybe this is something to think about. Like you know the other league owners and their personalities a little bit, right? So you could probably program some of that stuff in it that you know, well, Tim over here, he doesn't trade with anybody.

yeah!

Well, you know, but Fred, he's a lot more open to wheel and deal and if he has a bad week, he's gonna like be working to make a move and I can take advantage of him there and stuff like that.

Yes, and that you can absolutely do and run through the chats, through your chats with ChatGBT. And ideally, what you would build is this that pulls it all in and then you could actually probably create profiles on everybody in your league of their trading proclivities and help them run messages and things like that.

Yes, that is all within Realm, but you have to sit down and build it. And maybe I will because I did lose the first week pretty poorly. But I'm at a 50-50 shot going into Monday Night Football as we record this. So we'll see how this goes. But that one's a little more fun.

Okay.

Well, knock on wood, I'm wishing you the best of luck in the parlay there.

And to be honest, we could talk about AI agents for business all day long, but I bet you people would be way more interested in the fantasy football one.

oh yeah well it's it's a gateway right like the a lot of the tinkering do-it-yourself is like do something that's interesting to you that you wanna are passionate about and can kinda get in here and figure this out then it's just an application level to figure out how does any of this that I tinkered with apply to what I do at work yeah so I guess on that front like what else have you of you getting in here and playing with these things and kind of using it to kind of find a job

Exactly.

what else is it taught you? is there anything else that you're now applying to your role in work or failures that you've kind of hit and learned from that you want to pass on and make sure other people don't stub their toe there?

I mean, I definitely think it's the generalist's era. you know, like I know marketing, but if you know just a little bit of certain stuff, you can definitely start to dabble in all sorts of different areas of marketing or what have you. Like I never was a Salesforce administrator, but with the power of chat, GBT and knowing how HubSpot works and doing that.

You know, kind of taught myself to be a Salesforce administrator in about a week. Uh, you know, I wasn't going from zero to that, but I didn't understand all of the intricacies of Salesforce's backend. Um, so that is super interesting. So you can learn more and more of stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you see that replacing courses? Because a lot of people go take an online course or do you think it really is just whatever your learning style is? Some people prefer that, some people just want to ask questions.

I bet you it's just learning.

Maybe the right question is is that your learning style? Do you like to ask questions versus sit there and watch five hours of videos?

I'm not a watch five hours of videos type person. I have to go do it. you know, like going back to what I told you about DIY in my house, like I will watch a few YouTube videos, but then you just have to go start. You just got to go open up a wall and see what's going on behind there because ultimately you don't know. And whenever somebody on YouTube

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

says may not be the situation that you're running in your house. And so you have to just go open up a wall and start rolling. But you have to be ready for that.

true.

Yeah, maybe you watch a video that walks you through a little bit about how to find studs and you know how not to cut into the wires and the wall or stuff like that just to like be ready and then a couple of projects they did but like alright I got an idea what I'm looking for now let me just see what I can do here.

Yeah, exactly. And somebody has paved the way before you most often. But that's just my learning style. And so if that is your learning style, it does make things a little more accessible. Not that you necessarily have an advantage, but you can always learn new things and kind of up your skills and figure out new stuff. And if you like to tinker and...

Yeah.

learn new stuff and try new challenges, you know, that's also a good thing to do.

Yeah. I'm curious, how these tools kind of changed how you're doing marketing and thinking about marketing strategy now.

Well, I don't know if the tools have made me rethink marketing strategy per se, because if you go back, like, I don't know, people in tech for the good part of the 2010s didn't talk much about like the four P's and that kind of stuff. Like all of that is still super relevant. know, 22 immutable laws of marketing, all of that is relevant. I think one of the biggest things is be different.

You know?

Sure.

That's probably the immutable law I think right now. You know, the first one is be first. It's really hard to be first now. So you're gonna have to be different. So maybe that has changed it is that that's like, I think one of the bigger laws of marketing. But the biggest change is probably how congested everything's gotten.

Yeah.

So it's given everybody the ability to be in the market and finding... I kind of think of it as like finding the SEO of the 2015s. know, SEO was obviously big through the 2000s and the 2010s, but 2015, you know, it was popular, it was difficult, but you could scale a company going heavy in that. Like, what is that tactic?

Mmm.

Yeah.

that is of this era. I think it's probably social is probably the closest, know, doing what we're doing here, cutting these videos up and going on social. But getting that to drive back to traffic and or to demo requests and business stuff is not nearly as easy as SEO was, I think. So I think it's less strategy change, probably more tactic change.

Yeah.

like email is insanely hard, getting poor domain authority happens really, really fast now. it's, nobody, mean, people are getting hammered with email and so it's extremely difficult to stand out there. so it's probably mostly tactic driven, I think, and figuring out how to be different.

Right.

Right.

Yeah. Look, what if I not asked you? What questions, like, what should we be sharing with the listeners out there that I haven't thought to ask you or any big kind of takeaways that we want to make sure people know as we kind of start to wrap things up here?

I I would say the most daunting part of AI agents and AI building is figuring out what it is you're going to build. Because there is a lot of stuff you're like, that's cool. But you can spend a lot of time just building random stuff that you can't get to completion because either it's not interesting enough to focus, like the agents and things get hung up.

Yes.

So I think just focus on.

Or you land the job and don't need to finish this thing anymore. I mean, that's just reality.

Yeah, exactly. And so I think it's just figuring out something to build is probably the hardest. it's, I mean, that's probably always been the hardest thing for anything. And then moving on and building something. And then I think the other thing is just tinker. mean, everything is fixable. DIYing in my house, like everything is fixable.

Yeah.

So you might as well just open up the wall, because you can fix it, and just give something a try, I think is the biggest thing.

I it. I love it. So how could the community, know, the the builders and that people out there listening to this help you? What can they support you with? Obviously go subscribe and listen to your podcast that we'll make sure are in the but are you looking for people to help collaborate with your fantasy football app or testers or you try to get feedback on anything you're playing with?

I mean sure, you wanna scale out and build out more of the AIGM, specifically if you're in a sleeper league.

and you're not nearly somebody not nearly it but but but but but keep that competitive advantage

Yeah, probably not. Probably not. Yeah, but feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn. I try to be pretty active. Yeah, I get fits and spurts of being active on there. Take a listen to the DemandGen confidential podcast. I mean, reach out if you want to do an episode. I'm always looking for guests. And if you have any people in HR that follow you, which I'm sure you do,

Is that the best way? LinkedIn? Okay.

Come check out HR Bench and subscribe to our podcast. I'll be getting that live shortly. So you can listen to our first episode with Danny Woods. can go to our HR Bench LinkedIn page and the conversation is on there live already. And she's a great HR tech guru. That was a great one. All those plugs, got to stuff all the plugs in there. I am still a marketer.

Nice.

Awesome, awesome. Well, yeah.

So I get out much more

Well, and I'm a marketer, I'm not a marketer who markets to marketers about marketing, so we're gonna make sure we get all those in the links into the show notes so that the SEO love is there too. Logan, I really appreciate you taking the time to tell this story with us today. I think it's such an applicable use case for people to just think about how they can start using these tools and whatever the pressing priority is, whatever is gonna hold your interest right now that you're trying to solve and do and whether that's

Yeah?

trying to land a new job because it's forced upon you or you want to or you're trying to beat the snot out of your friends in fantasy football. You know it can all be a good way to take advantage of these tools and solve real world problems and I really appreciate you taking the time to share these with us.

Yeah.

Yeah, and I did forget to mention, like, if you are in the job hunt or you want the agent that I use, just reach out and I'll give it to you and teach you how to use it. Happy to help anybody out there looking. So don't be shy. Reach out if you want that. And it is from Vikram. You can post his credit. I used his agent and built on top of that.

I'll make sure that gets in there too and and hopefully well hopefully not hopefully but hopefully we have your whole LinkedIn direct messages flooded with requests to connect and people that want you to show and the tricks about how to do that awesome

Make sure that, yeah.

Yeah, that would be cool and I'm to. mean, and especially for that Java Hunt stuff, it becomes a stressful time. yeah, so want to, you know, let people know. Yeah, if you need help, let me know.

It sucks.

Absolutely, awesome. Well to everybody out there listening. Thanks for tuning in this this podcast is now on audio also So go search of our prompted builder stories on your favorite audio podcast network and until next time We'll talk to you here. Have a great week and never stop building

Awesome.