Shownotes
Amy shared her story with me from Carlisle, Pennsylvania. She learned about her adoption before her teen years—a revelation that left her in shock but also helped her make sense of her family dynamics.
In college, Amy’s coming out created a rift within her family, leaving her worried that pursuing an adoption reunion might lead to similar tensions.
Thankfully, Amy’s birth mother embraced her happiness and wholeheartedly committed to supporting her in their reunion. Listen until the end when you hear how Amy had to adopt her own child even though she's married. This is Amy's Journey.
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Transcripts
249 - It Is So Good That This Is Real
Promo
[:Cold Cut
[:[00:00:51] Damon: I'm Damon Davis and you're about to hear from Amy. She spoke to me from Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Amy was told she was adopted before her teen [00:01:00] years, which left her in a state of shock, but suddenly making sense of her family. in college, Amy's coming out created a rift in her family, A scenario that Amy worried would repeat itself if adoption reunion occurred.
[:
Opening
[:[00:02:03] Amy: It was significant because her and my adopted mother it, it, it'll be a little bit of a challenge for me to go back and forth with the terminology.
[:[00:02:33] Amy: She went into a very deep depression and that was my sophomore year in high school, and in that time you're trying to figure out who you are as a teenager, I've learned a lot of what goes on just through my own research and, the identity issues that we have as adoptees, And, looking back on that time, it it was very difficult and it, and it severed ties in the family lack of communication and just being around my cousins, for example.
[:[00:03:20] Amy: And it was really tough. And I don't think I know she never got over it.
[:[00:03:42] Damon: Correct.
[:[00:04:02] Amy: And, looking back on that time, I remember them sitting me down. It was summertime, I can see the living room. I can see that, the pattern on the couch, to those types of specifics and them telling me and telling me my that beginning story of how I came to be adopted and really.
[:[00:04:36] Amy: And then it never came up again. It wasn't talked about, you know, it was, every once in a while, especially after that initial, like, Hey, guess what? You're adopted. Mom would check in on me. She said, Hey, I'm just checking in on you. Like I would say for the first week or so after that.
[:[00:05:11] Amy: And they were like, they were preteen boys, typical
[:[00:05:15] Amy: Yeah. They're like, all right, that's cool. I'm still gonna, make fun of her and, whatever. So we just all continued on. So my, my mom would try to talk to me like as a teenager, she would say, Hey, I, do you have any questions?
[:[00:05:34] Damon: referring to your genetic aunt,
[:[00:05:38] Damon: Okay. And
[:[00:05:50] Amy: Let me get,
[:[00:06:07] Amy: Really? Wow.
[:[00:06:25] Amy: So I do think that there are, for me. I appreciated that it was never something that attention was called to because I know I wouldn't have liked as a kid. I was very outgoing, very, boisterous and, I was very much, I took care of my brothers, love them to death, all of those things.
[:[00:07:09] Amy: But yeah, that's the
[:[00:07:37] Damon: And then all of a sudden there were two big moments, one where you individually were sat down and informed that you were adopted. And then multiple years later, there was another newsflash where everybody else in the family got to know that you were adopted, this kind of thing. continual revealing of the fact that you're adopted and not just growing up with it from when you were 23, like [00:08:00] even younger, just knowing it just feels like that newsflash kind of moment, regardless of when it happens.
[:[00:08:22] Amy: yeah, for sure, definitely. Yeah, that makes sense.
[:[00:08:43] Damon: They may not have known how sensitive it could be, but I was just curious if that was ever a joke between them.
[:[00:08:59] Damon: [00:09:00] distasteful. I'm sure
[:[00:09:04] Amy: But yeah. No, never. And that's great and maybe that's because it was a thing that just wasn't talked about and. And I think that was just the culture of maybe adoption at that time. I mean, I was growing up in the, eighties and the nineties wasn't prevalent. I will say, I didn't know why I hated the movie elf until my journey started in reunion.
[:very interesting. Yeah. Why don't
[:[00:09:37] Damon: Will Ferrell is so drastically different from his family, right? And he stands out. So tell me about this. standing out that you've said, Oh, now it makes sense. So to go back, your parents sit you down at 10 years old, they reveal to you that you're adopted.
[:[00:10:09] Amy: Absolutely. So setting all the, The just the purely like, I don't look like them.
[:[00:10:58] Amy: I was on the I [00:11:00] did yearbook. I was the director of the pep club. I was the, the MC at pretty much everything at school events and, always just putting myself out there very much in leadership roles, which is, that trajectory has continued throughout my professional career.
[:[00:11:34] Amy: So we were always together. We work together. We all worked at the local grocery store and my, my mom in particular, why do you always want to be with your friends and not your family? Why not? Can't you just stay home? Why don't you want to stay home? No, you can't go out.
[:[00:12:09] Amy: And, I knew I wanted to go to college and I wanted to get out. Like I have this very much a feeling of, I need to be free. Need to be set free from this. And that was really important to me. So it caused a lot of turmoil. My, my dad, fantastic. I mean, he supported me. He would take me places.
[:[00:12:48] Amy: He just listened. He's always been my, my rock throughout my whole life.
[:[00:13:05] Amy: right? Yes, it
[:[00:13:28] Damon: And let's go explore it. You know what I mean? Like, let's roll. We can come home and rest, but let's go see some stuff. So I have the sense that's what you were feeling too.
[:[00:13:54] Amy: I'm a positive person. I always say I was born with rose colored glasses. If you know anything about the Enneagram, I'm a [00:14:00] seven the enthusiast and those really heavy feelings, I'm like, Ooh, I don't to engage with this. This is not me naturally. And that's been a challenge in my reunion journey and my coming out of the fog, really having to learn how to sit with grief
[:[00:14:35] Damon: Amy could call Tara and she would be right there Amy would just jump in her car and start to vent.
[:
[00:15:05] Damon: Amy's freshman year of college was a great experience. She was out on her own, living it up, enjoying the vibrance of an independent life. But then, she had an existential moment that made things a lot more difficult at home.
[:[00:15:35] Amy: Was raised in a Catholic family. And, things got even more difficult. It was, you need to go to therapy. You need to talk to a priest. And I'm like, no, I don't. I said, you need to go. you're the one that has a problem with this. I'm not the one that has a problem with this.
[:[00:15:57] Damon: Can you tell me about this lead up to this moment when you're [00:16:00] 18 years old? cause this is again, not my experience. I've not had to come out on any way. I've often joked, as a black person, you don't have to come out with your color. It's just there, but something like realizing you're gay, lesbian, LGBTQ plus, that is a moment that you have to actually declare for other people to recognize a piece of who you are. Tell me about this. lead up to realizing I want to tell my parents this.
[:[00:16:37] Amy: People are allowed to be who they are. And even for a religious family that I would say, it's. That's not the common language in some people's experiences, I would say. So
[:[00:17:07] Amy: Yeah, no, I remember my mom saying it's okay to be gay. We should love everybody, right? And it's You know, and it wasn't talked about a lot, but just enough to know that it wasn't something that was going to be was going to be excommunicated from the family. Let's put it that way. So when I, I shared that information, I was expecting a different reaction.
[:[00:17:52] Damon: I meant over there, I meant those people,
[:[00:18:02] Amy: I'm thinking, okay, like, it was like, we still love you. But, and what happened was everything tightened around me. in relationship to my parents. So I was a scholarship athlete. I played volleyball and softball. I did not have the ability to work during the season.
[:[00:18:41] Amy: Yep. I wasn't allowed to use the car. They knew who my girlfriend was at that time. I wasn't allowed to call her from the house. She wasn't allowed to pick me up in front of the house. I distinctly remember that summer when I came home from college, how difficult it was. Like I would, at one [00:19:00] point I walked to a pay phone to call her to come pick me up.
[:[00:19:27] Amy: Certainly, but those initial, I would say few years were very difficult because of the, restrictions put on different things around me. And then on top of that, I had to transfer colleges and I had to end up living at home my sophomore year. And that was just one fight after another, where are you going?
[:[00:20:01] Damon: restricted and judged
[:[00:20:07] Damon: I'll bet it was. I'm sorry.
[:[00:20:19] Amy: I don't get it. And the whole like you're going to go to hell. And I'm like, I don't, that's not going to happen. and through all this, I've kind of had to a lot of that.
[:[00:20:33] Damon: May I ask a tangential question? How did your coming out experience with your parents the judgment that they placed on you, how do you reflect on that as it applies to your religious upbringing? A lot of people will say, I was raised that way and those are our beliefs.
[:[00:21:20] Amy: That I think that was probably the most difficult things for me to come to terms with because that's not how we were raised. The, I can say, unequivocally, I had a very positive experience in Catholic school. There's a lot of things that, people can say they, they had very negative experiences and, that's been news and whatnot.
[:[00:22:00] Amy: So when this happened, when this converged, I'm like, It's a bunch of smoke and mirrors, honestly. And, just because, Catholics might not say it out loud as often as other religions doesn't mean it's okay. So that has been a real challenge over time. I mean, I don't practice anymore.
[:[00:22:41] Damon: Amy said a combination of things culminated in her desire to search for her birth family.
[:[00:23:04] Damon: Seeing the woman's very Irish name In print, clued her in that she was Irish too, a fact she had not known about her natural self. she said she thought about the information and held it for a long time. But at 18 years old, she was not ready for adoption search.
[:
can't.
Yeah, that's a lot. .
[:is a lot.
[:[00:23:38] Damon: In her mid thirties, Amy started going online, Googling the woman's name. Periodically, she would search for information in the county where she was born based on the information she found on her birth certificate. Late at night, Amy tried to come up with information about the woman who gave birth to her when she was 17 years old.
[:[00:24:21] Damon: She submitted her sample in the fall of 2020, in the height of the COVID 19 pandemic shutdown, and received her results around Thanksgiving.
[:[00:24:34] Amy: And it said I had matched with a half sister and like, my mind was like blown. I remember calling from the other room to my wife, honey, I have a sister. She's like, what? She comes in and she's like, Oh, your results came in. I was like, yeah,
[:[00:24:59] Damon: You've
[:[00:24:59] Damon: a
[:[00:25:00] Amy: I got a sister. Like the first thing that came to my mind because I grew up with brothers. So like this concept was like a whole like different world.
[:[00:25:09] Amy: Wow. And my wife, her name's Tracy. She's like, so are you going to message her? And I was like, Yeah, I guess I'm like, what am I going to say?
[:[00:25:53] Damon: she was waiting for you.
[:[00:25:56] Damon: incredible. She literally set this up for the intention of [00:26:00] you finding them again.
[:[00:26:02] Amy: Yes. How did that hit
[:[00:26:05] Amy: I mean, it just blew my mind, it was intense. It was emotional, of course. And I just was like, I want to know more. And so I had messaged her back. And I said, thank you for your kindness and your thoughtfulness. And I appreciate that so much.
[:[00:26:31] Amy: So
[:[00:26:49] Amy: And I said thank you so much. If you would like to connect by a text message, here's my phone number. I hope that's not too forward, but I just wanted you to have [00:27:00] this. And then I didn't hear anything from her for like three days.
[:[00:27:04] Amy: I was just like freaking out.
[:[00:27:25] Amy: She goes, I was I realized that you and I connecting is much bigger than just the two of us. And I had to think through that and sit with that. And then she sent me that message on. The app and then immediately texted me after.
[:[00:27:42] Amy: And it was great. It was like, hi, this is me. I need to know three really important things, do you drink coffee, do you like margaritas and what's your favorite color?
[:[00:28:13] Amy: In the start of my reunion journey, cause I'd never seen anyone who looked like me before.
[:[00:28:20] Amy: It took a while at first, but I remember I was sitting on my deck and it came through and I was just, I'm not often speechless, but I was definitely like. Speechless. And I was an on, I was like, there, there is another human who looks like me. That first like genetic mirroring emotions coming up.
[:[00:28:54] Amy: And she goes, I have a photo if you'd like it. And I said, I'm not ready yet. I was so blown away [00:29:00] by just the picture of her that I was like, not ready quite yet. But hold it there because I will be ready at one point.
[:[00:29:10] Damon: That, it sounds incredible. I'd love to ask you she sounds incredibly thoughtful.
[:[00:29:41] Damon: What do you think went through her mind or what did she tell you? That meant I realized this is bigger than just you and me.
[:[00:30:00] Amy: Like you've always been a part of us. We've just been waiting for you is how she framed it to me. During one of our conversations. And she knew how difficult a journey it has been. For our mother. And that she would want to connect with me as well, but she also wanted it to be at my pace and at my comfort level.
[:[00:30:38] Amy: So I, I think that's what it was really about. And knowing that I know now that's what I believe to be true.
[:[00:30:51] Damon: you know?
[:[00:30:55] Amy: Completed the test a couple of months before I did. I mean, she had completed the test [00:31:00] years before I did. So that's a big gap for nothing to happen.
[:[00:31:20] Damon: What is comfortable for you? How do we refer to my mom, our mom, and all of this stuff? And she's offered you a photo of her, but you haven't quite taken it yet. So what happens next? You and your sister are texting back and forth.
[:[00:31:37] Amy: And we were on the phone for two hours. It was just, it was like nonstop, like back and forth. And I will say, I, instantly felt connected to her. We had about two weeks of text messages leading up to that point. And she, again, very thoughtful. We talked about, our lives and our circumstances [00:32:00] and our families And she's like, what do you know about your story?
[:[00:32:20] Amy: And she's like, that's what I know too. And like, I'm like, Oh, I'm so glad these stories match. And just an excitement to, to be connecting and talking to one another. At one point I said, I think I'm ready for that picture. And she goes, why have a picture of her and her sisters?
[:[00:33:00] Amy: And I said, one of them, how many? And she said, three aunts. So there was four sisters. So she sent me a picture of my birth mother and her three sisters after we got off the phone. And again, floored like I could be the fifth sister. Like, Oh my goodness. I can't tell you how many times I looked at that photo in those initial months of reunion.
[:
[00:33:41] Damon: Amy crafted a heartfelt email to her birth mother. She and her wife reviewed the missive together and made sure nothing was out of line. Then, Amy pressed send. Unfortunately, she got no reply. Literally, nothing. Amy reached out to her biological sister, Showing the email address she [00:34:00] had used to confirm it was correct.
[:[00:34:17] Amy: I remember the date on December 8th. I sent her a certified letter. Cause I was like, this letter is getting there. The email didn't make it in there. And then what happened because it was the pandemic over Christmas, the letter did not arrive till December 30th.
[:[00:34:45] Amy: So that was a really tough few weeks. Because I'm like checking the tracking number, like constantly.
[:[00:35:09] Amy: And she's like, I can't do this. And you know how you get in your own head about things.
[:[00:35:15] Amy: so December 30th, I finally get confirmation from USP as that it was received. I was like, okay, I know she has it. And then on New Year's Eve, I was, we were getting ready to go to our friends for a small get together.
[:and
[:[00:35:57] Amy: What did her
[:[00:35:59] Amy: [00:36:00] So her email her email to me said she had been waiting for this day for forever, basically. And that she Was really hoping that we could connect and that we could connect at my pace and that she is ever so grateful to my parents for raising a, she called me a wonderful young woman.
[:[00:36:43] Amy: I wrote her back and I, I sent pictures. I did not send pictures with the first with the first letter. So I had emailed two pictures of myself. Cause I asked her if that would be something she'd be interested. And she said, yes. And she said, She goes, when I got your letter and saw that you had emailed me, [00:37:00] she goes, I went through my emails and they automatically delete after so long in the junks because I couldn't find it because I looked through over 5, 000 emails.
Oh
[:Wow.
[:[00:37:31] Amy: Whatever you need I wanna be here for you. I said, okay. And I said I wanna. Learn about my roots, and know more about, where I come from and who I am and all those things. So I'd sent that to her with two pictures. And then two days later, she texted me and she goes, I keep trying to write you an email back and she goes, I just, I start crying and she's like, I, can we just talk, can we talk and I was like, Okay, we can talk.
[:[00:38:00] Damon: Whatever you need, I'm here for you.
[:[00:38:11] Damon: We're going straight to face, right? That's crazy.
[:[00:38:28] Amy: that went with that. And we were on the phone for, we were on a video call for about an hour the first time and it was intense. And then I'm like, Oh my God, I'm looking in a mirror. Like we look so much alike. The genetic mirroring for me was just really intense. I would say those first two years.
[:[00:38:56] Amy: Yes. So it was still height of the pandemic at that time. So [00:39:00] that would have been our first call would have been early January, 2021. And we had a couple video calls after that, and we would, we were texting just little things back and forth.
[:Yeah.
[:[00:39:31] Amy: Cause my birthday is in February early February. And , Nicole had shared with me that early February was a hard time for her every year on my birthday. Nicole
[:[00:39:44] Amy: Yes. And I was like maybe that's, you know, I could go around my birthday.
[:[00:39:57] Damon: The COVID pandemic required that Amy [00:40:00] set herself up to be extra cautious for the 10 hour drive to see her birth mother. She quarantined for a week, took a COVID test the road, packed her own meals so she wouldn't have to stop and buy food, and double masked when she dashed in to use the restroom.
[:[00:40:29] Amy: Here we go. I knock on the door and her husband. Answers the door. And he's like, I've been waiting for you for 22 years.
[:[00:41:19] Amy: I'm a hugger. That's okay. I'm a hugger too. at every turn we were hugging. And at one point I said to her, I go. It is so good that this is real and that has become our like mantra through all of this, that it's good that it's real. So we say that to each other from time to time.
[:[00:41:40] Amy: , the conversation just flowed. It was such a juxtaposition to feel like I'm meeting with someone I don't know, but also meeting someone I knew forever at the same time. There was a comfortability [00:42:00] I didn't expect a connection that I didn't expect that was instantaneous.
[:[00:42:30] Damon: You drove 10 hours for a full day and you left that evening. Wow.
[:[00:42:52] Amy: How can I leave? Like, it doesn't feel right. And she's like, honey, if you need to stay another day or two, like you can do [00:43:00] that. And I said, I know, but and I re I look, I realized now through all my research, I was re experiencing that the lack of attachment again. So that, that, that was what was going on.
[:[00:43:22] Damon: Yeah, I can imagine. You sounds like you almost turned around and went back. I mean, wow.
[:[00:43:31] Damon: I'm sure if you're on the short side of three hours drive and seven on the other side, it's easier to go back and can keep going than it is to, keep continue with the seven hour journey.
[:[00:43:48] Amy: Sure. So I had known that, so my biological aunt and my adopted aunt worked together and had shared that my [00:44:00] adopted mother was trying to conceive with no luck and, considering exploring adoption and whatnot.
[:[00:44:34] Amy: That was, they were really concerned with that. They didn't want to pursue an agency or at least that's the sense that I get. So my biological aunt had told my biological grandparents, there's a, there's someone I work with and the I know the sister and my adoptive mom worked there briefly.
[:[00:45:17] Amy: It was a friend of a friend that, that did that. And so I was, they brought me home three days after I was. I learned that the attorney had to pick me up in the hospital for whatever rules they had at that time. And I think he delivered me to the parking lot where my parents were. So just a random learn during that day, my My, my birth mother shared with me her story and the story surrounding my conception and how difficult it was.
[:[00:46:01] Amy: She was really worried about, if I would be pursuing, the paternal side of the family and, what my intentions were there and understanding that just like, no matter what, like, she'd work through it and, but I could tell how hard it was.
[:[00:46:37] Amy: Being pregnant at a young age and, how difficult that was for her and for the family and all the shame surrounding that and the challenges that, that she experienced. I got some more details that I didn't have previously, which was really helpful in my understanding and my journey.
[:[00:47:08] Damon: That's amazing. So you mentioned earlier that you had to come out as gay to your adoptive parents, but also that there was a challenge with your biological mother. Tell me a little bit about that piece.
[:[00:47:40] Amy: And the request was that I'd be raised Catholic. And my mom, my adoptive mom was Catholic. So that was like, yeah, of course. And then, my adoptive mother had asked my biological mother not to look for me to let it to be on my terms, and they both like they both agreed [00:48:00] to that. They both were comfortable with that, letting any type of search beyond my own terms.
[:[00:48:26] Amy: So it was one of our early like video conversations I had. I had said to her, I, I. I have a wife and we have a child and this is who I am. And you know what she said to me, she goes, Amy, I can tell how happy you are. And that's what matters. And. And that was a moment for me that I needed because in my mind, it would have been very difficult to continue a new relationship knowing that I [00:49:00] wasn't accepted.
[:[00:49:22] Amy: And I've been given that gift and not that it's a gift, but it feels like a gift after what I went through previously.
[:[00:49:54] Damon: And that is massive. It's not something that everybody gets. And it's something that a lot of [00:50:00] people are fearful of. And it's not even it things as complex as, LGBTQ related issues. It's just, where I grew up, how I grew up, stupid things like politics that really don't mean anything.
[:[00:50:36] Damon: You respected her desire not to search for your biological father, your paternal side. I'm curious, are you still there with her? I mean that curiosity gets to you.
[:[00:50:49] Damon: I'm wondering where you are on that piece.
[:[00:50:59] Amy: And so she [00:51:00] understands that and that's where we're at. I have found him via social media. I've been able to see photos and whatnot. And that has for, at this time satiated where I'm at. I think. I mean, I know I'm not ready for another reunion. I can just be really upfront about that.
[:[00:51:43] Amy: And that's a comfort level right now.
[:[00:52:10] Damon: And that was my case too. My, my birth mother told me the story of, her own sister getting pregnant premarital and then how that went in their family. And then she found herself pregnant several years later and she just had this, Oh crap. And, she knew how traumatic it was.
[:[00:52:38] Amy: Yes, Yes, I've read the book and I've listened.
[:[00:52:52] Damon: I elected to just push it down and not pursue. And then when she passed away, I was like, you know what? I [00:53:00] can't hurt her feelings or anything in any way by seeking this guy out. And so it wasn't until after he passed, she passed that I searched for him. So I'm with you on that, respecting her for who she is, especially because she has granted you this unconditional love, right?
[:[00:53:30] Amy: So I had to go through the court proceedings to adopt my daughter, but my wife was the one who carried her.
[:[00:53:49] Damon: So your wife was inseminated, your wife carried your daughter, but you, even though you are married, [00:54:00] as a couple,
[:[00:54:02] Damon: to adopt your daughter.
[:[00:54:06] Damon: Is it only me that seems odd? That you're both the parents?
[:[00:54:22] Amy: So yeah, that was a little surreal too, like having to go through those proceedings and that process and made me really reflect on how. My family had to go through that on both sides of the equation. We both had to experience that. So that yeah it's very real.
[:[00:54:43] Damon: I've never thought of, nor heard of that before that. So just for clarity, a gay couple, especially for two women, one woman is inseminated with the embryo and carries the child, gives birth and you're married. [00:55:00]
[:[00:55:01] Damon: the child is, and you're on the birth certificate.
[:[00:55:05] Damon: What is your position on the birth certificate?
[:[00:55:09] Amy: Two mothers. It says mother's name and mother's name.
[:[00:55:20] Amy: Sure did. Sure did. And they issued her a new birth certificate that looks the exact same as the
[:[00:55:27] Amy: So I joke, I'm like we both have two birth certificates.
[:[00:55:38] Amy: Yeah. And it's been interesting for her too, because she, she's been part of this journey and explaining to her, like I have two moms and she has two moms, different circumstances, obviously. But it's, I think it helped a little bit when like I was first going through reunion and she was five, I think.
[:[00:56:09] Damon: Yeah. Really fascinating. Wow. Thank you for sharing that piece. You
[:[00:56:14] Damon: another enlightenment from one of these interviews.
[:[00:56:26] Amy: Yep. Thanks for having me.
[:[00:56:31] Amy: Thank you so much. Thank you. It's helped me a lot over the years.
[:[00:56:47] Damon: It's awesome.
[:[00:56:50] Damon: right. Very good. Take care, Amy. All the best. Bye bye.
[:Closing
[:[00:57:14] Damon: But Amy knows who she is, And seeking reunion, she hoped her birth mother would have a different feeling about her sexual identity. Fortunately, Amy's birth mother saw that she is happy with who she is, proving her words to Amy. Whatever you need, I'm here for it. I thought it was fascinating that Amy ultimately had to adopt the child that she and her wife artificially inseminated even though they were married. It just goes to show you that adoption comes in many forms and there's still a lot of work to do to get adoption right. I'm Damon Davis and I hope you found something in Amy's journey that inspired you.
[:[00:58:10] Damon: com slash book two, that's book and the number two. Give me your name and email address and I'll be sure to send you some information along the way.
