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35. Solana Store, Minecraft NFT Ban, Meta vs Apple
Episode 351st August 2022 • META Business • Holodeck Media
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In this episode, we discuss Solana opening a store in New York City, Minecraft banning NFTs, Epic Games coming out in support of blockchain technologies, Mark Zuckerberg claiming the race to the metaverse is between Meta and Apple, and so much more!

Episode 35 Keywords: Solana, store, New York City, Minecraft, NFT ban, Epic Games, blockchain technologies, Mark Zuckerberg, metaverse, Meta, Apple

Transcripts

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Welcome to the metaphysics podcast. The

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Metaverse and web three are bringing about the biggest

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revolution since the internet itself. With your hosts Paul the

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prophet Dawalibi And Jeff the juice Cohen. We will be bringing

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you the latest Metaverse, business news and insight into

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what it all means. The meta business podcast starts now.

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From the boardroom to the metaverse. This is the meta

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business podcast. I am Paul the profit that will leave me. I'm

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joined today by my friend and co host, Jeff the juice Cohen. For

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those of you who are new here, welcome to the official podcast

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in the metaverse. What we do is we cover the most pressing,

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Metaverse, topics news of the week, we look at all of it

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through a business and C suite lens, we dissect, we analyze the

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business implications of everything happening in this

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amazing industry. For our regular listeners. Thank you

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guys for tuning in every single week. Thank you for leaving

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those reviews, the five star ratings and reviews we promised

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we read all of them. They're all so humbling. The feedback has

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been amazing. We really appreciate it. If you haven't

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yet, make sure you hit subscribe on the podcast so you get

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alerted when new episodes drop every single week. And also

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share the podcast with a friend or colleague, someone who's

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maybe interested in the metaverse or web three, someone

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who maybe doesn't know much about it.

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But it was fun to introduce new people to the show, Jeff, how

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you doing this week? Pretty good. Pretty good. Funny, my

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cousin actually texted me like the other day and I guess he

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must have been with my mom or something. And he's like, I

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already have a new podcast. So he's now listening. That's

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awesome. So there's always There's always new listeners,

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you know, rolling and even family members sometimes you

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know, aren't aren't necessarily aware. So, Hey, Johnny, you're

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listening to this episode. And yeah, it's good to it's good to

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continue getting more listeners. But it's a good it's a good.

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It's a good thought, right? just force it on your family. If you

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love the podcast, sit them all down. You know how they used to

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go through, like slides from your family vacation, just sit

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the whole family down and make them all listen to the podcast

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or at least subscribe. I think this is this is the way to do

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value its value add.

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We've gotten a ton of stories. So let's jump into it. Jeff this

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week. Let's start with as we usually do something maybe a

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little bit lighter. And the headline here is crypto project

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Solana is opening a store in New York City. Take a look inside.

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So basically this is called Solana spaces. It's the first

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permanent retail store funded by the Solana foundation. It's

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going to be in Hudson Yards mall in Manhattan, which if you don't

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know is a pretty fancy upscale mall in in New York City. And

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what they're saying is the store according to this is like a it's

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it's selling physical goods

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but also selling digital goods with Solana pay accepted

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obviously everywhere, right? So the idea is to onboard people

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into the crypto space. There's a private booth for people to set

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up their wallets, you know, right down it says their seed

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phrase you know, so that so they can access it, should they you

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know, should they go to school? What would they physically be?

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So

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I just from the photos that looked like hoodies and things

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like that right like

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merch Yeah.

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But then, you know, so that it says there's branded merch

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everywhere. And, again, the the goal according to them,

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according to the Solana team, and the CEO of Solana spaces, is

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what they say is like saying it's really around education,

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right? It says, ultimately, the store is an experiment that we

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think a lot of people will love. It's not obviously the

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the author here says it's an expensive experiment, because

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rent in a place like Hudson Yards is obviously quite high.

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So but at the same time, like is it because it's funny, like as

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you were talking, I jotted down on my note but literally cheap

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marketing. So maybe I just think like, like to me like this seems

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like actually a decently cheap form of marketing. Personally,

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you know, a Superbowl ad

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I guess maybe not in terms of reach, but like literally

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cheaper than Superbowl ad. First thing that comes to mind and if

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you're not watching the video, maybe you just Google it or go

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check it out. It looks exactly like an Apple store. It clearly

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model that on that as as many retail do so yeah, I was gonna

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say that's like almost all of retail since the Apple Store

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today.

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So I mean, initially I was I was ready to hate this. I was

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already to say this is another example of the excess and just

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ridiculousness of web three. And what is the point of this? It's

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a physical, you know, it's an inch piece of infrastructure and

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digital technology. Why do they need a physical store? But then

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I was thinking about, like, some of the things you said just the

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onboarding process for crypto. I almost view this as like a

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really good Geek Squad, right? Like if you want to get people

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with the crypto they need a certain demographic of people

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needs to have

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Have a person right? They need to be able to talk to someone

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like, how do I get? How do I put money onto my wallet? How do I

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buy something with crypto do it for me? How do I create my seed

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phrase, my password helped me. So I kind of say think that it

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could be the equivalent of that, where it's almost like becomes a

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little bit of like a Geek Squad where people in onboards a lot

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like you're walking through, they're like, Okay, this is

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cool. Let me go check it out. Let me ask some stupid

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questions. And maybe you bring more people into the ecosystem,

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like, will this store make money or provide a great ROI? You

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know, for Silvana, the end of the day, I probably doubt it.

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But it's kind of a good thing for the ecosystem actually, like

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I just think it will, it will educate folks. It will it will

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it really did things like I don't know. Like, how many

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people like honestly, do you think will go through this

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store? On a daily basis?

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Probably a decent amount. Like if you're just, you know,

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browsing through the mall. It's pretty high in Miko. You

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obviously know it. Well. Yeah. How many? How many crypto

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wallets? Do you think they'll activate in a day?

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75 I don't, I don't think it'll be anywhere near that. I figure

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like two an hour maybe right? There's like one or two of these

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pods, right? Like two an hour or something like that. You're

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talking like 16 wallets activated in an eight hour kind

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of work day ish.

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Like back of the envelope math, if the space cost them 100 grand

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a month. And it may be more actually because I don't know

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what, you know,

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real estate, like retail space costs and Hudson Yards, but I

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did the back of the envelope math, like you're talking about

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cost of customer acquisition. Even I think in the most

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conservative scenarios around $200.

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But like, that actually is not that bad. I think I aren't

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uncertain. You know, like, I think crypto.com Like a lot of

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these companies have been paying like, massive sign on fees. Like

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if you if you join their,

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you know, their exchange, like they'll give you $50 For your

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$25 Free it's like 200 Our customer acquisition cost

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actually, like, you know, doesn't strike me as that high.

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Now, I think so. Maybe they're looking for more b2b. So maybe

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they're they're looking just to generate the high end Mall. You

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get the right kind of people in there. Maybe they think, okay,

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you're you're getting executives that aren't the tastemakers,

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exactly, exactly. You kind of get the tastemakers, the

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decision makers to kind of to come through there. And then

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they get hooked. And it also creates a brand Halo, right? You

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have this great store this great mall, and it becomes all of a

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sudden, Solana edges themselves above the competition, just in

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the mindshare of the right people like you are talking

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about that they're hedge funds in that in that space. It's, you

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know, all sorts of titans of industry walking through that

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mall. So I don't know, maybe that maybe it makes sense. I

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mean, you're talking about spending, though, that is on the

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order of a Superbowl ad, right, like between rent outfitting it.

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People, right, like you're talking millions of dollars at

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this point?

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I don't know. Like, maybe it was they were better off just like

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sponsoring and Mr. Beast, here's the question.

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And maybe this maybe this was mentioned in the article, maybe

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it wasn't, and maybe they have this decision made? And maybe

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they don't? Do you think this was a one off? Like kind of

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we'll see this for six months as almost like a pop up shop? Or is

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this going to be part of a broader? There's going to be one

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in Miami, there's going to be one in San Francisco, one in

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Chicago? Because I think it'd be interesting if that's the case.

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I don't know.

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It says in the article. It's a permanent physical retail space.

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So it's not a pop up. Now, what their plans are in terms of

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expansion.

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That's not mentioned. If you had to bet will we see any more of

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these?

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Yes, yes, because the the article does say that this is

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being paid for by the Solana Foundation. And they're, they're

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the ones like they're the ones covering all the costs of the

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store. And their goal is to, you know, help build out the Solana

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ecosystem. And I would think, if they've committed to this retail

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model permanently in New York City. In other words, not like a

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three month pop up, you have to believe that it's part of some

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broader plan. I mean, this just makes me even more makes me hate

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it even more to be honest, right? If we see like 12 retail

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stores, again, for a product that is inherently digital, and

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I don't I don't really get it if the goal is to sign up my

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grandmother. I don't think that achieves that really either.

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She's not gonna wander into the Solana store and go like Hey

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guys, what's going on here? Right, like, Sign me up. That's

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true. But like you do see this like with even you know, like, I

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think back to when Tesla like famously put like, showrooms in

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the mall, and like you could argue yes, you do need to go see

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a car. It's a physical

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I get the difference. But it was a different kind of direct to

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consumer that what the way cars had been sold for hundreds of

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years. And it kind of worked. So I don't know. I would bet two

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things happen with this one, they get bogged down with like a

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bunch of the noobs who come in and they set up their wallet,

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that like a week later the wallet they can't figure out how

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to make it work. And so there's like a lot of people wandering

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in the store like, Where'd my bitcoin go? Right? Like, there's

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a lot of that.

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And then the second group like they buy the NFT in the store

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and then they don't know why they can't take home like the

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physical thing on the wall that they thought they just bought. I

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feel like it's gonna be 5050 between unhappy experiences and

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like 50% that maybe walk away having

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in people the intelligence of the people of your old girl

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neighborhood I don't have a lot of faith in retail unless it's

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truly an experience right and and it's truly for a physical

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product that is an experience like Apple Stores work because

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you can touch and feel and that you know the MacBook and like,

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like it's not just because they're educating you and it's

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not just because the Geek Squad is there it is. That is a

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physical good with digital goods. This just seems like a

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waste but I mean time will tell we'll see. Maybe you'll have to

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go check it out. Jeff, I guess right. You'll have to go see me

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and we'll report back how about that

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let's talk about Minecraft in the news Minecraft. You know, I

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know we're Metaverse and web three podcast but Minecraft has

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taken a stance here and and the headline is popular blog game.

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Like I will always love when like non gaming endemic

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outlets report on anything gaming popular block game

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Minecraft says no to NF Ts and the blockchain. So Mojang

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Studios which is owned by Microsoft, they make Minecraft

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they've come out and they've said we are not going to do NF

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T's NF T's are not that they say oh, let me read the statement

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directly. Nf T's are not inclusive of all of our

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community and create a scenario of the haves and have nots.

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Mojang also said that the mindset NF T's would introduce

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into Minecraft would tarnish players long term enjoyment of

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the game, the company expressed concern that players would spend

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more time appraising NF T's values and trying to make money

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through Minecraft over playing the game itself. So there's a

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ban on NF Ts, but they're saying they're gonna pay close

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attention to how the technology evolves right there. They're not

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ruling it out forever. They say they have no plans of

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implementing blockchain into Minecraft right now. So

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Minecraft, you know, maybe the best selling game of all time by

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some counts 238 million copies sold.

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What do you make of them taking the stand, essentially banning

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NF T's from their ecosystem. I mean, the cynic in me says, you

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know that this is just like a closed platform wanting to keep

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the platform closed and make the money themselves. Right, right.

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Like they want to be the one selling the Digital Goods and

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getting all the money rather than having it be open

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transactions. Kind of a lot of the benefits of the of the

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blockchain. One of the things we've also talked a lot about is

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how the existing games that have massive player bases really

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don't have an incentive to be interoperable. And we both

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identified interoperability as one of the main like benefits.

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The one of the actually, probably the only benefits that

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we can see currently, of having blockchain and games is being

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able to take things one game to another. Well, if you're in

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Minecraft, and you're literally the 800 pound gorilla, you're

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arguing out of the top five game currently in your player base?

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Well, I would you want to make your game interoperable,

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interoperable with anything, because that just means that

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people are going to be leaving your game not coming into your

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game. So I they really don't have a big incentive to to

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integrate blockchain and make it more open. So that's, that's, I

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guess, number one. So I do want to hit them a bit on that.

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Having said that, some of their points around tarnishing long

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term engagement and creating a world of haves and have nots did

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resonate with me a little bit, because I think that's something

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we've talked a lot about, you know, within, within our

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conversations on this podcast is that once you incorporate this

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financial mechanism, and that's really what the blockchain is

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currently is like financialized in games, with earning component

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putting dollar amounts tradability to different assets.

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You do kind of tarnish the fun factor or so far.

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So I guess I come down on both sides of this one where I think

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they're doing it probably for nefarious, various is the wrong

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word. They're doing it, not altruistically.

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per se. Yeah, I think they're probably right in their

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assessment of things.

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Yeah, I think you're spot on on the first part, Jeff, like the

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whole incentives thing has always been my, you know, my

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rallying cry against web three games in general, right. Like,

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that's just, you create incentives that take away from

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the fun, the actual fun of the game. And people start to focus

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on, you know, other things that the reality is have nothing to

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do with fun. So, you know, Mojang has this interesting sort

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of past. And, you know, without sort of diving too deep into it,

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they really have been a company, up until maybe more recently,

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that was very, very much focused on their player base and fun and

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trying to deliver what their player base wants, right? Like,

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this is not out of the ordinary in terms of like, messaging from

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them. I saw like, even though you say they're not doing this

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altruistically, I think it's in line with the culture at Mojang,

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slash Minecraft, right? It's slash Microsoft even all

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extended to that, right. Like, there is, I think a culture that

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understands gaming within Microsoft may be better than any

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of the big tech companies. And and because they understand that

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culture better.

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And the gaming sort of ecosystem better. This to me, is evidence

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of that and they're coming out and they don't want to alienate

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anyone in their player base. Right. And so I think it's, it's

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an interesting stand, I think they're going to history is

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going to prove them right on this one. Because until someone

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has figured out why gamers should care about NF, t's beyond

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just making money in games, right? Why it makes the game

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more fun.

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Everyone's just wasting their time sort of thing, right? And

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so I liked the stance they took its measured, right, we're

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banning it for now, because it doesn't make the game any more

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fun. And we think it creates

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things that make the game less fun, in fact,

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or situations essentially. And but we're gonna keep watching

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it, right? They didn't rule it out. And they it's literally in

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the statement, but they're gonna keep an eye on it. And so I

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think that's about as good as we can expect from a company that's

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big. And a game mistake. And I give them I maybe I'm not take

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like, I'm, my view is much less cynical on this specifically.

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Yes, they're protecting their their ecosystem, but like, if

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tomorrow they opened it up to a zillion NF T's I don't think

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like anyone would stop playing Minecraft, you know what I mean?

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Like, Minecraft would be just as popular as it is today. So I

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don't see too much risk, if, you know because first of all, to

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open it up just to finish on this point, like

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Roblox would also have to open up to let me take my, you know,

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diamond x from Minecraft and use it somehow in Roblox.

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And that's

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really decide, but Will that ever possible between those two

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games specific?

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No. I mean, it says

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conversation. But yeah, that's such a longer line, because I

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guess short term long term, like, will we see consolidation?

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Well, we see technologies that allow interoperability, despite

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what the developers want, right? Like, there may be ways to

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tunnel the walled gardens essentially right things like

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that. So we'll see. But like, as it stands with current

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technology and current sort of

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the way the companies are structured today No, I don't

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lose no incentive to and the gamers aren't like demanding it

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no one's like there's just not 50 million kids going please let

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me use my Diamond Axe and Roblox right this just doesn't exist.

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So

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anyways, I just want to bring up the second part of this story,

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which is, let me read this headline epic won't ban NF T

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games in response to Minecraft stance, Tim Sweeney says, and

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the sub headline here says stores and operating system

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makers shouldn't interfere by forcing their views onto others.

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So Tim Sweeney forever the Crusader

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in response to Minecraft, saying, you know, we're gonna

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ban essentially NF T's from our games for now.

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Came out and reminded everyone that Epic is not banning NF T's

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which is not new because he has said this before, but he took

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the

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took the opportunity to say it again and added that it's wrong.

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I guess he used this word to interfere in how developers make

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their games.

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What do you think of Tim Sweeney's comments here? I mean,

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he never misses an opportunity to play the defender of the

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common man common gamer if you will. So yeah, good on him

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again. It's like they have a great PR team anytime there's a

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story like this. It's like immediately like a quote comes

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out like we are

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Just banning nfts decision that we made set up months ago, and

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still doing it. It's just wrong.

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Okay. But having said that smart and they are the challenger

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brand, Challenger platform, they they're losing on most fronts at

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this debate for whether how successful they are how much of

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a failure the epic game store has been. But regardless if we

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disagree on how much of a failure or where they are in

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that process, if they are clearly the challenger brand,

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they're clearly the hunter versus the other. So it's smart

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on them to try to find that angle, right. This is the one

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maybe part of steams armor that has like a GenCon. You know,

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like, if we get to a point where people want to actually play

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what three games, and they can't play them on Steam.

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epic game store has a massive opportunity there. So I still

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made them. That's the key question is just like, when do

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we get to that point where people actually want to play

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with their games and epic game store becomes the place to do

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it. I don't think we're there yet. I remember we talked a few

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episodes back, there was a game launch. I can't even now

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remember which one it was. But I remember we debated whether it

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would be kind of a big moment for the epic game store and for

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web three gaming. Given that I can't even remember the name of

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the game. I'm guessing it was not a real supernova moment.

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You remember?

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Watching but I can't even remember now what?

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That's

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I don't I don't get Tim Sweeney, right. Like, I don't.

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I don't I don't really understand

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why he has taken on this fight. Right? Like, he's got a totally

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dominant game in its genre by in fortnight, or at least a cash

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cow. You know, it's not totally done, but it's a cash cow. He

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has an engine that has 50% of the market share, right? Like,

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I've never understood why he takes on these crusades, because

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it doesn't move his business forward in any way today. And so

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your argument, I think, is a good one. And I think it's the

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art of the argument.

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But it has the most validity, right, which is he's making

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these arguments today, because he thinks at some point in the

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future, all of this catches on, right. And, and Epic Games will

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be the only one left standing right, everyone will be years

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behind because he saw the future first.

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And, and I think he couldn't be any more wrong. I think he

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couldn't be any more wrong. What what when I see these articles,

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what I truly believe, is Tim Sweeney has become so far

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removed from actually making games, that he doesn't really

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know what a fun game is anymore. Right? And if you just look at

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his Twitter feed

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98% of it is him talking about highly technical programming

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related things, right? Like, oh, you know, in Objective C, using

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an array is less efficient than using like you don't like this

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kind of, like hardcore programmer stuff. And then the

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rest is his crusade against that bowl against valve against like,

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literally anyone who has taken maybe a more measured approach

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to this. It's his crusade or his like, highly technical stuff.

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And I really am starting to believe that he's not really, he

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doesn't really care about making games anymore. And he's not

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really in the business of making things anymore himself. Right.

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That's just not part of what he sees as his responsibility as

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CEO of epic, which makes me very concerned because as a games

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company, if the CEO doesn't care about the games you make this is

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this is the start of a big downward slide. You can

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reference Activision Blizzard as the perfect proof of this.

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And so the scenario I see more likely to play out. And I've

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said this before, I think is

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epic is going to publish some web three game that is complete

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garbage. And it's not garbage. It's like it's a scam. It's some

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Chinese scam of some kind. And some kid in Utah is going to is

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going to lose, you know, $2,000 of his parents money. And it's

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going to be front page news on the Washington Post. And it will

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tarnish web three games and set them back a year or two at least

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right and totally setback epic. They'll have to issue an

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apology. They'll have to say we're doing more moderation and

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curation. You know that they'll have to backpedal all of this,

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all of the big statements he's making like we're never going to

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tell developers what to do. Right like, Okay, well I'm gonna

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put up a

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When three scam game, and then you can't tell me what to do

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like, okay, and he's just gonna look silly, like I don't see how

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this ends other than them looking silly. And and people

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getting hurt as a consequence of,

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of religious arguments is what I see here. It's not measured it's

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not really logical. It's just become religion for him. Do you

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think so? So I, I like your prognostication, I think I

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actually tend to like that is a decent like scenario, not the

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specifics that you detail, but I think that outcome is possible.

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If they're not doing the content moderation. They're not there

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just allowing anything on there. I don't obviously know whether

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that's the case or not. They need some moderation. But do you

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think that the core of the strategy, if it's not driven by

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this sort of ideological zeal, is it a good strategy to say,

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hey, we're the challenger. This could be the next big thing. Our

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competitors have shunned it. Let's give it let's give it a

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chance. You know, it could be it could be the thing that bolts us

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into competition. If I was a 50, person startup, right? The

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contrarian strategy here makes total sense. Because the

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downsides very small. And the upsides massive if I'm the only

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one that's right, right, the problem is epic is not a 50

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person startup, the downside for them is very large. It's 10s of

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billions of dollars, right? Like, there is a huge amount of

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downside. So like, maybe in his head, there's still that 20

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person startup and there if I'm him, I would do the exact same

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thing, even if I didn't believe it, just because the the you

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know, the the risk reward math works in my favor. Right. So on

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the 10% chance, I'm right, there's a ton of upside on the

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90% chance I'm wrong. What do I lose like my rinky dink startup?

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Okay.

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And so, you know, it's, your point is a fantastic one. I just

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think not, in the case of a company as big and valued

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valuable as Epic Games. I mean, there's just they're not,

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they're not a startup.

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Make sense?

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Let's talk about two companies that are definitely not startups

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call it going after each other in the metaverse space here. And

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this was Zuckerberg so we're, you know, big CEOs making big

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comments this week, I guess is the theme. Something Zuckerberg

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says Mehta and Apple are in very deep philosophical competition.

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That's a direct quote, to build the metaverse. So he says this

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is a competition of philosophies and ideas, is what he told

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employees recently, and I'll just read the quote, he says

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this is a competition of philosophies and ideas, where

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they believe they as an apple, that by doing everything

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themselves and tightly integrating, that they build a

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better consumer experience, Zuckerberg said of the brooding

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rivalry, and we believe that there's a lot to be done in

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specialization across different companies, and that will allow a

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much larger ecosystem to exist. He said that Mehta will position

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itself as the more open, cheaper alternative to Apple, which is

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expected to announce their first AR headset as soon as later this

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year.

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Sidenote, it's also mentioned in the article, they helped

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medihelp stair stand up the metaverse open standards group,

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with Microsoft epic and others. So

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what do you think of this, like deep philosophical differences?

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Sort of?

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I agree. I mean, Apple has always been famously like the

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closed platform. And on mobile, Android, you know, has always

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been the open platform. So I think Zuckerberg is saying,

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okay, for VR, we're going to be that open platform, Android of

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the metaverse, Android VR, and Apple presumably will keep their

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their walled garden type approach. It's interesting to me

Unknown:

because I feel like we always complain about Facebook or metta

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kind of trying to be the one company that rules the

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metaverse. Like, I don't often hear that. When people describe

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the metaverse Well, it's not just going to be Facebook owning

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it, like, almost like there's a lot of disdain towards

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Facebook's approach. Because I think Facebook by the name

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change, just being so vocal about it, people have this

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perception that that is what they're trying to do. They're

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trying to like own the whole ecosystem. So it's interesting

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to see Zuckerberg like kind of smart almost like, smartly say,

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Hey, that's not what we're trying to do. We're trying to be

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like an open platform. Apple's the real you know, the real bad

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guy here that's trying to like own everything. So there I

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didn't get this. It's a smart, like savvy wait for me frame.

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Fast forward like five, maybe 10 years, even Jeff, like, Who do

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you think? Like, what do you think, is the positioning

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between these two companies five years from today? Like, what

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does that relationship look like? And how are they? How are

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they

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The difference are similar.

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From a Metaverse strategy, obviously, it's a good question.

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I think I probably have more comment. I was gonna say I have

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more confidence in Apple just in their ability to build hardware,

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their ability to coax developers onto their platform.

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Having said that meta head in the VR hardware sets, and I know

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you, you've talked on prior episodes about how Oculus is

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really the Trojan horse, if you will, for the for the metaverse

Unknown:

for meta. So I don't know, I don't have a ton of conviction,

Unknown:

honestly, curious to hear your thoughts, actually.

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You know, Apple is notoriously good at waiting for someone else

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to pioneer something, and then making it better and more

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expensive and more profitable.

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You know?

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So, you know, in that sense, I don't think I don't discount

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Apple, right? Even if it's a closed ecosystem. And I've said

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many times, the true capital and Metaverse will need to be

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interoperable and things like that. But, you know,

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Apple has a billion people who will buy just about anything

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they put out, right, like there's a base there that is so

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deep in their ecosystem. And the ability to prime a pump with

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that many people that many users is a superpower that I think

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only Apple has today.

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I think five years from now, we'll still talk me talking

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about these two going head to head I know that's kind of a non

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answer. But I think both will exist. And we'll still be

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discussing sort of how they're figuring out how to coexist.

Unknown:

In the same way, you know, it would be awesome if we could use

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iMessage across Apple and Android. How many? How many

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times do you hear people complain about that? That hasn't

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been solved yet so much simpler problem to solve.

Unknown:

But from a user perspective, right, we'd all love it to be

Unknown:

solved. And I think we'll be complaining about this five

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years from now that you know, I've got assets in this room in

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the Apple Metaverse, and I've got assets in the Facebook

Unknown:

Metaverse and like, you know, how nice would it be if I could

Unknown:

just hang out with my friends who are on the you know, the

Unknown:

Apple Metaverse is saying this. I think the reality is five

Unknown:

years is not a long enough time period for those things to sort

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themselves out. You asked me 20 years, I think there will be

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there. The reality is these things will be solved. But in

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the shorter term, I think you're just going to have these

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competitive viewpoints existing

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concurrently.

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Jeff, I don't know if you have any other thoughts on that. But

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that

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That wraps up this week's show, but I feel like that flew by I

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know. As always a blast. And as always, I just want to thank our

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listeners who tune in every week remind them make sure you

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subscribe to the podcast so that you get notified when a new

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episode drops. And go subscribe to our sister podcast met a

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woman which covers

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women operating in the gaming and web three space. It's it's

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an interview show contents amazing. So go subscribe to

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that. And if you love the juice, go follow him Jeff Cohen 23 And

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go check out the live stream that Jeff and I do every single

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Wednesday 2:30pm Eastern time. It's a lot of fun. We cover

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gaming stuff more broadly. Not that web three and Metaverse

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specifically, but gaming stuff more broadly. So go check that

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out. And as always, guys, don't forget the most important thing.

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The future is fun. We'll see you next week. Thanks for joining us

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here on meta business. Make sure to subscribe to this podcast

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everywhere you get your podcasts, leave a five star

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review and tell your friends, family and colleagues all about

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us. Also, make sure to follow metta TV on all socials to get

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more of the best Metaverse content anywhere. Tune in every

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week for another episode of meta business

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