In this heartfelt episode, I sit down with Kasryn Kapp, a therapist whose journey into private practice began with necessity—but has since blossomed into something truly sustainable. After leaving a dangerous and unsupportive agency job, Kasryn built a thriving full-fee practice centered on helping clients with insomnia and those learning to prioritize themselves for the first time.

Kasryn shares candidly about her early struggles—months without clients, confusion about her niche, and fear around marketing. She also opens up about the powerful mindset shifts that helped her step into a new season of safety, steadiness, and self-trust. Whether you're feeling stuck, scared, or simply unsure how to get traction, Kasryn’s story will remind you that slow growth can still be strong growth—and that marketing doesn’t have to mean spinning your wheels.

Here’s what you’ll learn in this episode:

1️⃣ How Kasryn found clarity in her niche—and why that clarity made her easier (and more exciting!) to refer to

2️⃣ The biggest marketing mistake she made early on, and what helped her finally start seeing results

3️⃣ How she shifted her money mindset, left insurance, and built a schedule that supports her life—not the other way around

Resources & Links Mentioned:

• Confident Copy: walkerstrategyco.com/cc
• Kasryn's free workshop
• Profit First for Therapists
• Join the Confident Copy waitlist: walkerstrategyco.com/waitlist

Connect + Subscribe

Enjoying the podcast? Subscribe so you never miss an episode—and feel free to share it with a fellow therapist who’s building their private practice.

Explore more marketing support for therapists: The Walker Strategy Co website: walkerstrategyco.com

About Marketing Therapy

Marketing Therapy is the podcast where therapists learn how to market their private practices without burnout, self-doubt, or sleazy tactics. Hosted by Anna Walker—marketing coach, strategist, and founder of Walker Strategy Co—each episode brings you clear, grounded advice to help you attract the right-fit, full-fee clients and grow a practice you feel proud of.

Hey there.

2

Welcome back to Marketing

Therapy episode 17.

3

This one is really special.

4

In this episode, I am sitting down

with Kasryn Kapp, who is an incredibly

5

talented clinician in the Philadelphia

area, who has a really remarkable story

6

of leaving her agency life literally

for her own safety, jumping into

7

private practice, and now existing

as a thriving full fee clinician.

8

Becoming well known in her

niche and building a practice

9

that truly fits her life.

10

If that's your goal, then I think you're

gonna take a lot away from Kasryn's story.

11

And if nothing else, over the next little

while, I think you're gonna be very,

12

very inspired by the story of someone

who was faced with adversity and turned

13

it into something that is going to serve

her and her family for years to come.

14

Alright, that's enough from me.

15

Let's dive into this interview.

16

Kasryn Kapp: My name's Catherine.

17

I use she her pronouns and I

help exhausted adults break the

18

cycle of sleepless nights using

a research backed approach.

19

That's my niche area and I'm a

therapist licensed in Pennsylvania,

20

New Jersey, and I'm able to

serve clients in Vermont as well.

21

Anna Walker: That's a pretty, uh,

polished niche statement there.

22

You've worked hard to, to get there.

23

You do.

24

In addition to your insomnia work, you

also see individuals outside of that.

25

Right.

26

Tell me a little bit about

the other clients you see.

27

Kasryn Kapp: Yeah.

28

Thank you for asking that.

29

So I also help women and

non-binary folks who are putting

30

themselves last and want to start.

31

Moving up talking about it,

even, they're not even ready to

32

start prioritizing themselves.

33

But I just wanna have someone to talk

to who's not gonna disempower them.

34

And sometimes that happens after.

35

My clients are sleeping well,

sometimes that's the next step.

36

You know, I've been self-sacrificing

so much sleep went by the wayside.

37

Now I'm sleeping well and it's

opening up a door to other areas

38

of my life that I can now explore.

39

And sometimes clients find me

directly for that work as well.

40

I.

41

Anna Walker: Cool.

42

I wanna hear more about

the niche work that you do.

43

'cause it is really unique.

44

Anytime I get to learn more about

CBTI from you, I enjoy that.

45

But, tell us just to, as we get to know

you a little bit more, what season of

46

life and of practice are you in right now?

47

How long have you been at this?

48

Kasryn Kapp: Yeah, so I, in preparing

for this, I looked at it and I'm shocked

49

to see it's been three years this month.

50

July 1st.

51

And, we'll talk about this too, but

it was really difficult at first.

52

I didn't know what my niche was.

53

I'd been a generalist working in community

mental health, so it almost feels like

54

it's been two years because the first

year I was just figuring out, up from

55

down and how to be an entrepreneur, how to

be in private practice, uh, all of that.

56

So, yeah, it feels a little surreal.

57

And then.

58

Of life.

59

I am really coming into.

60

What does it look like to put

myself first to do the work

61

that I'm now doing with clients?

62

Like what do I love now?

63

You know, I'm been, I've been going

to the pool in the middle of the day.

64

I love that.

65

Um, going to, yeah, my partner's

medical appointment and being able to

66

support 'em and what, it just feels so

different from the kind of grind, hustle,

67

grind work that I was in for so long.

68

So I really.

69

Exciting and exploratory phase of life.

70

Anna Walker: Well, that's

an exciting one to be in.

71

I love that.

72

tell us a little bit about

where this all started.

73

Kind of take us back to the beginning.

74

You were in community mental health.

75

What led you to decide to jump into

the whole private practice thing?

76

Kasryn Kapp: Yeah, so I'd been

doing that community mental health,

77

high acuity, federally qualified

health center kind of work for seven

78

years, and I knew I was burnt out.

79

In my mind at that time, self-care

was taking like a weekend trip

80

or doing more meditation and

it really, and pushing through.

81

I think it's so easy for pushing

through to become a habit.

82

It's part of the culture there and I

thought I could keep doing that forever

83

and that was not the case for me.

84

I ended up burning out.

85

So much that I had to quit.

86

And there's also gun

violence thoughts at work.

87

It just wasn't a safe environment.

88

So I had to leave for my safety really.

89

That was the beginning.

90

It was a rough start.

91

I wouldn't recommend it.

92

I didn't

93

Anna Walker: know this about you.

94

This is, yeah.

95

Really interesting.

96

So I think sometimes when people go

into private practice, it's because

97

they have these big, lofty goals for

themselves, which you very well may have

98

had, but you were also just making a.

99

Necessary decision for yourself.

100

So in some ways, did you feel a

little bit forced into this or

101

did you enter into it excited?

102

Kasryn Kapp: It's the best thing

that ever happened to me, but it

103

did at the time, feel very forced.

104

I was applying for other W2 jobs in a

similar environment that I was used to.

105

And I need reasonable accommodations,

especially in COVID, that I'm

106

partially deaf and the masks

make it really difficult.

107

I could not get an interview where

they would provide accommodations.

108

So it wasn't a possibility almost.

109

It felt like, I mean, I'm sure

eventually I could have found

110

something, but I was being turned

away experiencing discrimination.

111

And so, you know, I had a friend

in private practice who had been

112

encouraging me to do it, and I was

afraid of entrepreneurship that.

113

Would mean that it would be hustling

forever, which is not true, but that was

114

my belief that it would be constantly

unsteady, which is also not true.

115

I'm so much more steady

and safe than I was then.

116

But yeah, I really did feel I.

117

Forced into it

118

Anna Walker: so you got started and if

you can bring yourself back to those

119

early days, what were those challenges?

120

You mentioned kinda that first year

was just learning kind of up from

121

down and how to be an entrepreneur.

122

What were some of those initial

challenges where you, you know, that

123

kind of got us to where we are today?

124

Kasryn Kapp: Yeah, so some of the

challenges felt like, you know,

125

this is just a learning curve.

126

I need to figure it out.

127

Like getting a bookkeeping

system set up and.

128

Telehealth and EHR and

all that kind of stuff.

129

But the biggest challenge, which I

think a lot of people listening will

130

resonate with listening to marketing

therapy, is marketing niching.

131

Shocking.

132

How do I find them?

133

Yeah.

134

And it continues to be, I think, for

a lot of people, a real pain point.

135

And so that was my biggest

challenge and I think.

136

I kind of feel like, and you've

helped me and I can't thank you

137

enough, and Anna's not paying me to

say this, but, you helped me so much.

138

I feel like I have a system now

that works, so it's still something

139

I need to work on, but I feel

like I've figured it out for now.

140

But that was a huge pain point.

141

I didn't have any clients for like.

142

Four or five months, it was challenging.

143

Anna Walker: Yeah.

144

Yeah.

145

In those early days.

146

And you're absolutely right.

147

Some of this is just natural.

148

Like it's very abnormal to start your

practice and all of a sudden just be

149

fully booked and thriving and, you know,

everything's sunshine and rainbows.

150

Like that isn't reality.

151

There is a curve.

152

But those early days of

I remember when we met.

153

I remember when you sent me your

first couple of emails wondering about

154

working together and that sort of thing.

155

What were you doing in your marketing

that you felt like wasn't working?

156

What were you trying that

didn't feel like it was landing?

157

Kasryn Kapp: Yeah.

158

I was spinning my wheels following

shiny objects, trying to do everything.

159

I had an Instagram.

160

I was networking, but my niche

statement wasn't clear at all.

161

I was.

162

On every directory I

could get my hands on.

163

And I was shocked that none of it

was working because in my mind,

164

and this is something I'm learning

too, working hard means results.

165

Now that's shifted to taking

the right action, which is often

166

less work leads to results.

167

So yeah, I was kind of, just frantic.

168

Yeah.

169

And at the time too, I can't

emphasize enough the importance

170

of having an emergency savings,

which saved me through this time

171

where I had to quit and then I was.

172

Figuring out entrepreneurship.

173

But yeah, that's just kind of

what I was doing at the time.

174

Anna Walker: Yeah.

175

And you also have left insurance, which

we'll get to a little bit, but I know some

176

of the earlier kind of beliefs and doubts

you talked about, things like it's always,

177

going to require hustling and that it's

always good to be unstable, but there are

178

also some money messages and things like

that you've really had to wrestle with.

179

Do you feel like there are other

beliefs that you were holding

180

then that maybe have shifted now?

181

Kasryn Kapp: Yeah, absolutely.

182

Yeah.

183

There's a lot of money

mindset work in this.

184

I think our profession is

really devalued, the pay being.

185

So little for the amount of work.

186

It's not just, and everyone listening

knows it's not just a session too.

187

It's everything that goes into it.

188

And so I had this belief that,

you know, if you charge too

189

much, you're a bad person.

190

If you have money, you're bad.

191

There's all kinds of cliches

about wealth being bad.

192

And I really am against

the wealth inequality.

193

Like I really want us to all.

194

Share resources more equitably.

195

But what I realized and a belief I've

kind of come to is that me making myself

196

small doesn't make other people wealthy.

197

It just makes me small and supports

the system that wants me as a

198

disabled, queer woman to be small.

199

Anna Walker: Gotcha.

200

Yeah, just kind of figuring

out where you fit in all that.

201

Alright, I wanna know

more about your niche.

202

So tell me how you came into

Insomnia work, why you love it.

203

It's a unique one.

204

I think the standard niche these days,

is quite a bit different from this.

205

So tell me about how you came into

this niche, what you love about it.

206

Kasryn Kapp: First of all, the statement

I give at the beginning, my elevator

207

pitch niche statement is so important to

have that people understand what I do,

208

and you helped me with that confident

copy helped me with that so much.

209

But as for the niche itself in

college, I wasn't sleeping well.

210

I had insomnia, and I was lucky

enough to have a therapist who was

211

trained in the modality that I use

CBTI and I was really skeptical.

212

At first I thought, yeah.

213

I've already done everything.

214

I did the sleep hygiene

thing, this isn't gonna work.

215

Lo and behold it did.

216

It really worked very well.

217

And I have a family history of insomnia.

218

You know, I have a lot of things that were

stories that this wouldn't work for me,

219

but it did and it's continues to work.

220

And despite, even despite all those

stressors and the burnout, I was sleeping.

221

So that was like such a godsend.

222

So that's how I got into it.

223

And then I had a pretty confusing niche.

224

Conglomerate before I started Confident

Copy and Insomnia was in there and

225

I got a lot of traction with it.

226

People were really interested in

it and so I got a few clients.

227

Those were my first few clients and I

remembered how much I loved to do it.

228

I've been integrating it at In in

Community Mental health, but you

229

really can't specialize there.

230

So I would do it and then not have any

clients for a while and then do it again.

231

But I realized how much I

love to do it, so I decided to

232

zoom in on that and it's been.

233

Fantastic.

234

Anna Walker: Yeah, I remember that.

235

Work with you early on, in Confident copy

where you were deciding 'cause you had

236

come in seeing this wider range of clients

and you decided, you know, I am gonna

237

own this, while still honoring that, non.

238

Insomnia client that we were talking

about earlier, those women and

239

non-binary folks who, have been making

themselves small and that sort of thing.

240

But seeing you embody that I think has

served you incredibly well these days.

241

And like you said, you get

traction with a niche like that.

242

Kasryn Kapp: Yeah.

243

And it gives me freedom to

really train further in it.

244

You'd think with sleep, we know

everything there is to know.

245

We've been doing it for all of humanity

and time, but we're learning more.

246

All the time.

247

There's new treatments coming out.

248

One just came out last year.

249

There's another one burgeoning coming

out, and so it affords me the time to

250

learn more about, it's so fascinating.

251

I could do only trainings

on it and a little bit of

252

clinical work and I'd be happy.

253

Uh, it's, it's how wonderful

254

Anna Walker: to love your work that much.

255

Kasryn Kapp: Yeah.

256

Very refreshing.

257

From before where there's like

a boss and you have to meet the

258

productivity hours and it's.

259

Fueled by fear.

260

Anna Walker: Absolutely.

261

Tell me a little bit, I don't

know if I know this, how did you

262

first learn about Confident Copy?

263

Kasryn Kapp: So I think the very first

point of contact was a Facebook ad.

264

I.

265

I don't remember what it said, but

you looked really nice in the picture.

266

Well, thank you.

267

And I was, you know, grabbing

onto anything that would

268

help and I I followed that.

269

I think it was, I don't really remember.

270

I think it was one of

those free trainings.

271

And I told my business bestie about it.

272

And she took the leap before I did.

273

She was like, I think this is good.

274

And then she talked me into it.

275

If you can have a business buddy

that's like on the same journey as

276

you, that's so powerful because I was

really afraid that I would get scammed.

277

I was investing my own personal

savings into the business.

278

So there was a lot of fear

around investing in things, and I

279

didn't think about it like that.

280

I was thinking about it as an

expense, but instead of an investment.

281

We can talk more about that later, but

yeah, I think it was a Facebook ad.

282

Anna Walker: Yeah.

283

Interesting.

284

I think a lot of clinicians, especially

those who were in kind of that stage

285

that you were in, can identify with

the idea of just grabbing for anything.

286

Like I will, I will watch any

webinar that you tell me to watch.

287

I will download every freebie, I

will join every Facebook group.

288

I will read every blog post, and that

can be really overwhelming and it

289

can, I think, be difficult to discern.

290

What is actually the right

quote unquote advice.

291

What stood out to you as far

as confident copy goes that

292

felt like it was the right one.

293

Not that it's the only one, and it

certainly isn't the only resource you've

294

used, but what stood out to you that

made you think like, okay, among all

295

the things I'm grabbing, maybe this

is a good one to like take hold of

296

Kasryn Kapp: two things.

297

Most importantly was

word of mouth referral.

298

Like it really worked for people

who did it and they were living

299

the life that I wanted to live.

300

That's, I mean, more than anything

anyone could say is someone did that

301

program and saw success with it.

302

Sure.

303

And I said, I want that too.

304

The other thing was accessibility.

305

You have really great

accessibility features.

306

You have captions on the calls,

and that's a boundary for me.

307

Like, I'm not gonna put myself in a

situation anymore where I don't have that.

308

So I really, I'm grateful to

you because it's a, a lot of

309

other programs don't do that.

310

Anna Walker: Such an easy thing to do.

311

Um, that's, that's shocking to

me, but I'm so glad to be able

312

to create a community like that.

313

During Confident Copy, obviously we

did a lot of work around your niche

314

and we've touched on that a little bit.

315

What tools support, you know, what

parts of the program really stood

316

out to you or do you feel like were

the most valuable on your journey?

317

Kasryn Kapp: Yeah, I really

liked the coaching calls.

318

I think.

319

It gave me a lot of insight.

320

There were people who were slightly

ahead of me and that was helpful.

321

People on the call saying, Hey, I put

my website, this page up, and I got a

322

client that kind of, okay, this is real.

323

I can do this.

324

The momentum.

325

So, so that community aspect I think.

326

And then also there was

a lot of structure and.

327

Clarity and you weren't telling me what

to say, but you're telling me what are

328

clients looking for in this section?

329

That's so helpful.

330

'cause it never occurred to me.

331

And I think that that's where a

lot of people fall prey to trying

332

to speak to like colleagues or

trying to do what sounds smart.

333

Be like, Hey, clients wanna know

that you're nice and you're human

334

and here's how can you speak to that?

335

Anna Walker: Yeah.

336

Uh, what surprised you about kind of your

own growth through that process, figuring

337

out your niche, writing a website,

that, that really aligned with it.

338

Is there anything that you look back

and you were like especially proud

339

of or surprised by as far as your

own change that you experienced?

340

Kasryn Kapp: I think before

I felt like, so I bike a lot.

341

I love cycling and I felt

like the chain was off.

342

Like I was spinning the

wheels and going nowhere.

343

Hmm.

344

And I feel like confident copy

put the chain on the bike so

345

that I'm not spinning my wheels.

346

Like the effort I was putting

in was really working.

347

So I think what surprised me is,

you know, a lot of those doubts and

348

stories about entrepreneurship is

constantly hustling or even not taking

349

insurance is constantly hustling.

350

You know, I think a lot

of those narratives.

351

It surprised me when they were challenged

and I can put in work and go further.

352

Anna Walker: Less

353

Kasryn Kapp: work.

354

Anna Walker: I think that's, yeah.

355

What a wonderful metaphor.

356

I love that.

357

Um, Catherine, you're one of those

people that I think you and I

358

love meeting clinicians like you.

359

Who are you?

360

You could have taken confident copy,

you could have not taken confident copy.

361

I think you still would

have been successful.

362

If you hadn't, where do you

think you would be right now?

363

Kasryn Kapp: That's my kind of view.

364

I think I may have eventually figured

it out, but trying to do it piecemeal

365

with the free stuff it would've

taken me so long to figure it out.

366

I think I would be on the platforms

and desperately wanting to get off.

367

I think I really am hesitant.

368

I wanna say that if being on a

platform is what works for you

369

and your family and your business,

there's no shame or judgment at all.

370

I really.

371

Don't trust them.

372

I don't trust their mission.

373

I don't trust what they're doing.

374

And I think I would feel like

I had to be on them and I'd

375

wanna get off but not know how.

376

Mm.

377

So I think that's where I'd

be without confident Copy.

378

I also think even if I had figured it

out, and I think we're gonna talk about

379

income too, but confident Copy really

was an investment in the sense that

380

the payoff is continuing and building.

381

Along with the work that I

put into it and built on it.

382

So I think I'd probably have a hard time

meeting the income goals that I have

383

now, or the ones that I met last year.

384

Anna Walker: Yeah.

385

Yeah.

386

Cool.

387

So Post Confident copy, you launched

your website, you've left insurance.

388

Tell me a little bit about, that was

about three years ago, was in that

389

first year that you took Confident copy.

390

How are things going today?

391

What have you, you know, accomplished?

392

Whether that is a tangible, you know,

kind of concrete thing or we can get

393

into the intangible the confidence,

the sustainability, the safety you

394

mentioned that you're feeling today.

395

Kasryn Kapp: Yeah.

396

Yeah, I think in the intangible, I've

kind of set up the situation where

397

I don't really have to work more

than 35 hours a week, which feels

398

kind of weird and illegal and like,

so I'm gonna get in trouble with

399

someone or something, I don't know.

400

So

401

Anna Walker: after years of being in

community mental health, that might

402

just be a deeply ingrained thing.

403

Kasryn Kapp: It's pretty ingrained.

404

Right.

405

And I started working at

a really young age too.

406

And so I think that.

407

Employee kind of work a certain number

of hours is really deeply ingrained.

408

So, you know, exploring

that and getting used to it.

409

And then income too.

410

Like last year I made more money

than I ever made at a W2 job seeing.

411

Way fewer clients because

of confident copy.

412

You know, I also did some other work

too, of course, networking and building a

413

community around the money mindset piece.

414

Um, but in 2024, Mike Gross

revenue, so pre-tax, pre expenses

415

was 89,000, just over 89,000,

seeing about 13 clients a week.

416

And then this year I'm on

track to make the same.

417

So far this year I've made a little bit

more than last year, so far last year,

418

so the first six months of the year.

419

Um, but seeing fewer clients

and not being on insurance.

420

So yeah.

421

Lots of wins and thank you for that.

422

Yeah.

423

Anna Walker: Um, what was the process like

of getting off of insurance and where,

424

where in your journey did that happen?

425

Kasryn Kapp: Yeah, that's really recent.

426

Um, I've been slowly, I.

427

Moving away from it for, I mean,

pretty much since I started.

428

But I officially ended all contracts,

um, at the end of May, and then I of

429

two clients at the beginning of June.

430

So this

431

Anna Walker: last month, very recent.

432

Wow, I didn't realize that.

433

Okay.

434

Kasryn Kapp: Yeah.

435

Anna Walker: Congratulations.

436

Kasryn Kapp: Yeah, but

I've been slowly tapering.

437

So the, it was a platform

that I was on, and you can.

438

Limit your intakes.

439

So I hadn't been accepting new

clients for a very long time,

440

tapering off and building the

private pay side for a long time.

441

But officially all in private pay.

442

It's very recent.

443

Anna Walker: Wow.

444

Congratulations.

445

I didn't realize I was getting

to sit down with you at such an

446

exciting point in your practice.

447

So if you imagine yourself today, going

to the pool in the afternoons, you know,

448

being able to go to your partner's medical

appointments compared to back in the day

449

grinding, hustling chain off the bike.

450

What feels different?

451

How are you different as a

business owner, as just a human?

452

What do you feel like has

changed for you since then?

453

Kasryn Kapp: I think I

feel so much more autonomy.

454

Before even with the platform,

there was sort of a boss there.

455

Even if it's technically your 10 99.

456

If they said you have

to do this new workflow.

457

Then you kind of have to do it.

458

But now, and increasingly I

feel like, oh, actually I don't

459

think that's best client care.

460

I don't think that's ethical, for

example integrating AI in ways

461

that I think, I'm not against it,

but I think it's integrated really

462

quickly and not necessarily with

client care at the forefront.

463

And so.

464

You know, having the autonomy to

make decisions, what's gonna be the

465

best for my practice for myself?

466

I think that's kind of

the overarching theme.

467

And then also just shifting my

mindset now that I've set this up to

468

I can relax into it kind of thing.

469

Anna Walker: Mm-hmm.

470

What a great feeling.

471

One thing that's always important to me,

and that's curious to me as well is to.

472

Be honest about the fact that growing

a practice and marketing, here we are

473

in like the marketing therapy podcast.

474

It doesn't stop.

475

So you can go through Confident Copy

and graduate and create a website,

476

and the marketing doesn't end there.

477

It hopefully takes on a new, a

new flavor and feels differently

478

and gets different results.

479

But at the end of the day, you like,

that's something that continues

480

for the life of your practice.

481

Um, and one of the things I love is that

it can look a lot of different ways.

482

You can, may be dancing on Instagram

and making reels and getting clients and

483

you can be networking and you can be.

484

Sitting behind your computer and blogging.

485

Right.

486

There's lots of different ways to do it.

487

What for you has been important and

what types of regular marketing are

488

you involved in on a consistent basis?

489

Kasryn Kapp: Yeah, so just to speak

to what you said, that's so true.

490

You do have to continue.

491

But something I've found is it feels

more like building a body of work than.

492

Just constantly doing things to

try to hope something sticks.

493

So, like I was doing

before, confident Coffee.

494

Yeah.

495

So I do still work now and I still engage

in it, but one example is I have a free

496

workshop for therapist if you're curious

to learn more about sleep therapy.

497

It's on my website slash prevent.

498

Um, oh, cool.

499

We'll put that in the show notes.

500

You can check that out.

501

Um, but that kinda lives on my website

and it is a free resource for therapists.

502

I think reflecting on my experience

as a client, I was really grateful

503

that I had a therapist who knew about

this, and so I wanna share that.

504

And also it helps.

505

Therapists become aware that

there are effective tools, not

506

just sleep hygiene, which we've

already tried and it didn't work.

507

Um, that there are answers.

508

So it serves two purposes.

509

One, it feels really good.

510

I can help colleagues, I can help clients

like me who needed someone who knew that.

511

And also it helps establish credibility.

512

Like I know what I'm talking about.

513

I'm a real person 'cause you

can see me talking on the video.

514

And so that's something I did, but it

kind of hangs out there and it's not

515

like I have to constantly do it all

the time and it works for me, I guess.

516

Mm-hmm, yeah, so I do things

like that and that I would put

517

in the networking category.

518

I host queer networking groups locally,

online, and that's really rewarding

519

being able to bring people together.

520

I just love talking with people.

521

I like networking.

522

That's, I think, kind of unique

about me from what I get.

523

Yes, most of

524

Anna Walker: the clinicians I serve

don't necessarily feel that way about it.

525

Kasryn Kapp: Yeah.

526

Most people don't.

527

There are ways to do it that are

powerful and, and don't have to look like

528

what I'm doing, so keep that in mind.

529

I like it.

530

So that's unique.

531

Yeah.

532

So I love just getting together.

533

Like last week I got together at a coffee

shop with some wonderful colleagues

534

who have really interesting specialties

and we just talked about our work.

535

It was really cool.

536

Beautiful day, kind of hot, but yeah,

in the middle of a Wednesday, you know?

537

And, um, so that I also do SEO work.

538

I'm told my SEO is pretty good

by the Google people I talk to.

539

I of course, confident copy

builds that in, so there's a

540

fantastic foundation there.

541

And then I do blogging.

542

Honestly, it's really sporadic.

543

I don't like blogging, so if

you like blogging, good for you.

544

I like networking, but

I yeah, try to do that.

545

Somewhat consistently.

546

Blogging and then directories, niche

specific directories have been fantastic.

547

So those are my three.

548

Yeah.

549

As you tell us to pick two to

three, that's really helpful.

550

'cause I would do everything

and if I don't limit it and I

551

don't need to do everything, but

networking, SEO and directories.

552

Anna Walker: I love that.

553

Um, I remember you talking about having

networked with some, some new colleagues

554

fairly recently after your time in

Confident Copy, and they said that they

555

were excited to refer to you and that

that was, that was a new experience.

556

I.

557

Kasryn Kapp: Oh yeah.

558

But, but my niche, before I couldn't

even give you a niche statement.

559

It was like, I like helping people and

I also like this and I also like that.

560

And people, I think they wanted

to help me and they were just

561

really confused about what I did.

562

And so now people tend to get

more, oh, I had someone who really.

563

Needs this kind of work

and it works better.

564

And also, I understand that feeling

because sometimes I have that with people.

565

Like, I love connecting with this

wonderful therapist, but I don't

566

understand who's a good fit for her.

567

Like, I wanna send her people, but I

can't connect it with somebody in my mind.

568

So I think they appreciate it

too, but I've had people say.

569

Wow.

570

I'm so excited to refer to

you, which was shocking to me.

571

'cause the reaction before was, I

don't know if I have anybody like that.

572

Anna Walker: Yeah.

573

Right, right.

574

I think that's a something that's commonly

forgotten when clinicians are networking,

575

that it's critical that you are memorable.

576

You have to be easy to refer to

if you want networking to work.

577

And that starts with having a

clear understanding of what it,

578

what the heck you actually do.

579

Right.

580

Um, that's where that kind of all starts.

581

Kasryn Kapp: Yeah.

582

Yeah, it's helpful I think on

both sides too, like if, if I am

583

speaking to that, it helps them.

584

Understand, it just takes kind

of the mental work off of their

585

plate of trying to think about it.

586

And also now that I have more time

to even further my specialization, do

587

more training, it gives an opportunity

to be a resource for people too,

588

which feels really good for me.

589

Like if people are like, oh, I have a

client with hot flashes, for example.

590

It gives me a lot of time

to take a really deep dive.

591

Everything there's to know about hot

flashes, journal articles about it.

592

Books and then consult and then I know

more about hot flashes and they get the

593

benefit of that work and it just works.

594

Yeah.

595

Anna Walker: I love that.

596

It's really cool, Catherine, to hear

your sort of evolution as a business

597

owner being essentially forced into

it for your own wellbeing and now.

598

By all accounts thriving.

599

Certainly there's room and we'll

talk about your future goals, but

600

really cool to hear that evolution.

601

One thing that I wanna call out

that is really a powerful shift is

602

this idea of viewing investments

like confident copy, other resources

603

you've used to grow your practice

as investments and not as expensive.

604

Can you tell me more about that?

605

Kasryn Kapp: Yeah.

606

Anna Walker: So.

607

Kasryn Kapp: This almost sounds like

business influencer thing, but going

608

from an employee mindset, I don't know

what else to call it, of like this is

609

an expense I have to justify to my boss.

610

Now this is some a cost that

is gonna bring down whatever

611

the revenue or whatever.

612

This is something that's gonna pay for

itself, but also make my life easier.

613

It's going to be an investment

in the true cents of the word.

614

That's kind of a, a growth edge that I

have now and that I've been working on.

615

And, some wonderful colleagues have

helped me with that because I was so

616

very much thinking about confident

copy as this is something that's

617

gonna cost my business versus.

618

This is something that's

gonna make my business bloom.

619

And so, yeah, it's definitely

a shift in mindset.

620

Anna Walker: Yeah.

621

Do you continue to look at investments

and expenses these days in that way

622

too, when you're sort of considering,

you know, a training, I think tends to

623

be a little bit more of a, traditional

way of thinking about an investment.

624

But anytime effectively you're

spending money on your business, are

625

you looking at it through that lens?

626

Kasryn Kapp: Yeah, that's something

I'm actively working on 'cause it's

627

not something that just changed.

628

So when I'm looking at some extra funds

that I have, how do I wanna use that?

629

I am, I have a note on my,

like business bookkeeping.

630

I have a whole system for that.

631

And part of it is a reminder about

is this, what's the ROI on this?

632

Is it an investment?

633

And sometimes there are expenses like.

634

Things that aren't gonna necessarily

influence, but maybe I want them.

635

And then that's great.

636

You know, it does, not everything is

an investment, but looking for that

637

because I think it, it was an important

shift that got me to where I am and

638

it's something that my, my business.

639

Buddies helped me with too.

640

Anna Walker: Yeah.

641

Cool.

642

Tell me what you're excited about next.

643

I mean, you just officially, de paneled.

644

So what are you excited about personally,

professionally, whatever it may be as you

645

look ahead into the rest of the year and

into the coming years as a practice owner.

646

Kasryn Kapp: Yeah.

647

So into the coming year I have

a very ambitious side that's.

648

Wonderful and sometimes serves

me, and sometimes it's just

649

high functioning anxiety.

650

So my goal for this year, as of

now, is to make the same as I

651

made last year without insurance.

652

It's working so far.

653

I am feeling really hopeful about it.

654

I think I tend to get really ambitious.

655

I do have a big goal that I want,

but I'm gonna move that out a little

656

bit as a way to challenge that.

657

Achiever, like teacher's pet,

good goal conditioning kind of way

658

that I naturally follow through.

659

Yeah, so my goal is to make the

same, so a little bit over $89,000.

660

Um, and I won't need to see

as many clients to do that

661

and to just enjoy life more.

662

And then, my big goal is to pay

off all my student loan debt.

663

Buy a house in the area where

I live, which is an urban area,

664

so it's expensive and give my

partner the option to not work.

665

So to do that, I need

to make $200,000 a year.

666

Okay.

667

Can't see my face on the

podcast, but that is an audition.

668

She's saying

669

Anna Walker: it out loud.

670

Kasryn Kapp: Yeah, it's,

I'm saying it out loud.

671

It's real.

672

And I'm not gonna push.

673

Myself too much to get there.

674

But I think what I'm learning is that

there's so much possibility and saying

675

it out loud with generosity and space

to get there, not pushing to get there.

676

Anna Walker: That's powerful.

677

That's powerful to set a goal that has

generosity and space, not pressure.

678

That's huge.

679

And I think you're gonna meet it.

680

And then some, I mean like you

said, there's so much possibility.

681

Many people are listening who I

think can identify with your journey.

682

Maybe they're in that spinning chain

off phase or maybe they're in the phase

683

of having de paneled and are looking

at what to do and what investments

684

to make, what's worth their time.

685

What would you want to tell those people?

686

Kasryn Kapp: Well, I, just to rehash a

little bit the thinking about ROI, that's

687

something that a good advice I got was to

look at that build a community, even if

688

you don't like networking, not thinking

about it like that, but just colleagues.

689

Who have a similar way

of thinking about things.

690

I don't think I would be right

without my colleague who talked me

691

into confident copy, like she helped

me so much to, to make these moves.

692

So build a community.

693

I mean, I think Confident Copy

is a fantastic investment.

694

So if you're thinking about it, go for it.

695

But also look for word of mouth referrals.

696

If you're looking at something

you're not sure think about ROI and

697

have an emergency savings first.

698

Yeah, you

699

Anna Walker: mentioned that earlier.

700

Kasryn Kapp: It's a little

off topic, but it's, it was so

701

important in my journey that I had

that because it opened up space.

702

To explore and to take this path.

703

Anna Walker: Yeah.

704

I actually wanna ask one more question

and that's, and I, I think this

705

resonates deeply with me because in

my own therapy work, I've realized

706

my number one value is security.

707

Mm.

708

Um, and so anytime someone mentions

things like that, my ears perk up.

709

But you mentioned that you actually

feel more safe and secure now

710

than you did in a W2 position.

711

Can you tell me more about that?

712

Because I think ultimately

a lot of us are seeking.

713

That and early on in private practice,

it can feel like you can't find

714

safety or security anywhere you look.

715

So what's that been like for you?

716

Kasryn Kapp: Yeah, well it's fantastic.

717

And I think there's a

couple elements at play.

718

One is.

719

The autonomy piece I mentioned earlier,

I'm not being pressured to do something

720

that would put my license at risk, which

happens in community mental health.

721

You're asked to do things that

are not ethical sometimes.

722

And so that makes me feel more secure.

723

I have my own malpractice insurance.

724

They work for me versus

working for my company who.

725

May throw me under the bus.

726

They could, I don't know if

they would, but they could.

727

I can make sure that my accommodation

needs are met or I don't participate.

728

I'm not gonna be

pressured to do something.

729

When I don't have what I need to do well.

730

So that makes me feel more secure.

731

And then on the money side I know

what's going on behind the scenes so

732

often they would say, oh, we can't

afford to pay you more because of

733

budget, but we never saw the budget.

734

I don't, and I don't know.

735

So that black box behind

the scenes, so I know.

736

What's coming in, I know what's going

on, and I use the profit first cash

737

management system, which I recommend.

738

There's a book profit

first for therapists.

739

And so that makes me

feel really secure too.

740

Like I pay myself a regular salary,

so when I make more, I set that aside.

741

I pay myself a regular salary.

742

It feels very secure, and I know

what's going on behind the curtains.

743

Absolutely.

744

That's, I think most of it.

745

Anna Walker: Yeah.

746

Yeah.

747

Cool.

748

Thank you for that.

749

Alright, Catherine, I don't think I

have any more questions for you today.

750

Um, this has been such a wonderful I,

I, I just love getting to learn more

751

about you and to hear about your journey

and that evolution as a business owner

752

and to know where you're at today.

753

If you could go back and say one

thing to that earlier version

754

of yourself, what would you say?

755

Kasryn Kapp: You don't

have to suffer like this.

756

You don't have to make yourself

small and making it so you

757

thrive doesn't hurt other people.

758

You can be safe and that helps other

people, helps the people around you.

759

And so.

760

I think that's what I would say.

761

I'd have a lot more specific

advice, but I think I touched

762

on that all throughout this.

763

Anna Walker: Yeah.

764

Yeah.

765

That's wonderful.

766

Catherine, thank you so

much for being here today.

767

Kasryn Kapp: Yeah.

768

Thank you for having me.

769

And thank you for all you

do to help therapists.

770

Truly like I do, free promo for you

all the time, and it's because what you

771

do is really, truly helpful and you,

you get what we need to do to thrive.

772

So thank you for the podcast

and for, for all you do.

773

Anna Walker: Oh, I appreciate that.

774

It's my absolute pleasure.

775

I appreciate you take good care.