Shownotes
While we can adapt Pilates to the laws of physiology, we cannot change the definition of technical words like "strength" just to fit a specific teaching style or Pilates philosophy.
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Transcripts
I've got a rare treat for you, dear listener, and a rare treat for myself as
::well. I'm here with Adam McAtee. Hi, Adam.
::Hey, Ralph. Good to hang out with you. Yeah, it's so great to see you.
::We haven't connected for a while, and I'm really looking forward to our conversation.
::But admiring your work from afar, and I reached out to you to have this conversation
::because of an excellent post that you put up, um, recently on socials.
::And, uh, if you could just sort of walk, walk us through the post,
::but I don't want to like get too bogged down in the, the, the detail of the
::post itself through this episode, but I want to talk about the larger principle
::that you brought up in that and, and unpack that a bit.
::So yeah, walk us through the, the, the scenario. Yeah.
::Sure. So I'll give like the elevator pitch on that. And I'll get more detailed if it's too vague.
::So there is a large Pilates organization that was misutilizing the term strength.
::And I felt that it was important to be clear on what the definition of strength
::is, and also what it is not.
::So then we can provide the best client care possible.
::And for me I chose to
::go step by step and discuss exactly
::what was wrong with the post in which
::the company attempted to redefine what
::strength is and I feel passionate that
::we don't get to redefine the laws of physics but rather we can understand the
::laws of physics and human physiology understand what Pilates does really well
::and we can either we have like two choices which is either to allow Pilates
::to be exactly what it's good at and love that,
::or we can adapt Pilates to the laws of physics and physiology to generate a
::response that is accurate and also ethical to our clients.
::And not to go down too much of a rabbit hole, I'm just passionate about this
::because I work with older adults. That is who I work with.
::I've been bedside with older adults that needed strength to get out of bed.
::And for me, I just feel really passionate about education
::and um you know providing that education to people who pay for the education
::and then also help people who actually need help like this is more than just
::you know our summer bodies this is about to me it's about independence and the
::lifespan and it starts with education yeah that's my.
::My passionate elevators. Yeah, the two things that really caught my interest in that,
::first what you said about, and this is pretty much why I reached out to you
::about this post, is first what you said about, yeah, we don't get to redefine words,
::you know, which are very precisely defined in physiology and physics,
::you know just because we never
::studied physiology or physics like
::these words already have definitions so yeah
::we don't get to redefine words and the second thing is that
::i think in pilates this is something i'm very interested in as well is we have
::this kind of i guess magical thinking that is highly prevalent where we we think
::and that there's this one specific belief I want to zero in on in our conversation today,
::which is that essentially the core idea, I think, is that strength comes from control in Pilates.
::And, you know, that gets expressed different ways by, you know,
::you need to organize yourself under load or, you know,
::activation, correct activation, you know, but basically the idea is that control
::should precede strength, or in fact, control begets strength.
::And, uh,
::that you know i think even in that post there was
::one of the things that they said correct me if i'm wrong
::on this but was that basically if your clients
::are kind of like gripping and bracing and you
::know trying to like push through that's not true
::strength i'm like yeah no i'm pretty sure that's exactly what what you need
::to do to get stronger um but yeah so those two ideas firstly that we don't get
::to just change the definitions of technical words in our field of expertise.
::And second, that this magical idea that strength comes from control.
::Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I just want to shout out to any Pilates instructor
::out there. I know we're doing the best that we know how to do.
::And all of this is intended to be additive to all of the incredible work you do.
::And there was a point in my career where I didn't actually know the definition
::of strength, but I was teaching Pilates, and that was an education problem.
::So then I solved that through education. I'm sorry to butt in.
::I think that's such a really important point.
::Look, I just want to echo that. if you're listening to this and you
::don't know what the actual textbook definition of strength is like no
::shade on you that was your educator's fault whoever
::trained you up yeah yeah and
::and it's just you know what can we do about that now is um you know learn more
::now and show up every day and get a little bit better and so i hope this this
::podcast contributes to that uh for you dear listener um so strength is the my
::understanding of strength is it's the ability to generate force through a specific task.
::And then if you're doing maximal strength, that would be the maximum force that
::you can produce one time during a specific task.
::And so within the definition, the word control is actually not in the definition.
::And therefore, it's actually not a requirement.
::And if anyone has ever biased, let's say maximal strength, or you or maybe you
::just went to failure in an exercise, like let's say, a push up, right?
::And you're let's say you're your first push up It might feel a little weird
::because you're doing your first one.
::And then your third one, you're kind of like you're going and it looks pretty good.
::Aesthetically. When you go down for your last one and you try to get up,
::holy shit, like that does not look like the third one, right?
::Your alignment is going to be a little bit different.
::Your facial expressions are definitely gonna be different. And you might even
::have some sound effects along the way.
::And so within that fatigue generates what I call alternative alignment,
::meaning that that your alignment changes.
::And that's actually an indicator of the body seeking to, to,
::to complete another repetition in any way that it can.
::But the gas is almost like, or the gas tank is almost on empty.
::So I would say that precision is actually like, we can either,
::we can either choose to bias precision or bias strength.
::And I'm not going to say either one is right or wrong, But I think we need to
::be clear on what we're biasing.
::And if we're biasing strength, precision is going to kind of go out the window
::towards the end of the set.
::And I'm not saying it's right or it's wrong, but I think where we misstep in
::Pilates education is that we try to redefine strength to then fit that idea
::of prioritizing control or precision.
::And within that, they're not the same thing. Like apples are apples and oranges are oranges.
::And so control is not a requirement for strength. And that doesn't mean just be reckless, right?
::And just, you know, who cares about any alignment under any condition?
::You know, there is a way that you want to progressively load and progressively
::expose the body, you know, to be doing these strength tests,
::like there's a smart way to go about it. But if we're biasing strength,
::you need to go to failure or very close to it.
::And that's just, it's not, it's just not a pretty process. And I think that's, that's okay.
::To the, to the post that you were mentioning, the, the direct slide that they're
::mentioning, just word for word, so I'm paraphrasing to fit my bias,
::is that it says, if movement quality drops, as load increases,
::strength is, isn't being built.
::It's being replaced with gripping, with bracing and with pushing through.
::So what this post does is it ignores what strength is and how strength is being built.
::Strength is actually being built through load and progressive loading over time.
::And that has nothing to do with movement quality. It's a quantitative measure.
::So it's objective. It's not how something looks or based on opinion.
::And then they replace it with words that in Pilates are often seen as negative.
::So it's well written to be perceived as intelligent, but it's extremely misleading
::if you know what words mean.
::But they try to demystify that by redefining what strength is.
::There's nothing wrong with gripping, bracing, or pushing through.
::Because when you're lifting heavy things, you're going to have to push through.
::It's like literally the task. I mean, look at anyone winning the Olympic white
::lifting gold medal and they'll be gripping, bracing, and pushing through.
::You know yeah and it doesn't even have to be that level like I
::help people get out of chairs because they can't like they're pushing through
::and that's their that's their Olympic gold medal it can be at so many different
::levels it can be competition or just you know it could be the complete other
::end of the spectrum but yeah they're gonna brace grip and they're gonna push
::through and it's gonna be hard yeah.
::You know, what you touched on there about, you know,
::building strength is inherently not pretty because we have to challenge our
::body to the point where we can't quite complete the task successfully or, you know,
::in perfect form in order to generate a sufficient stimulus for strengthening.
::And if you can maintain perfect form at all times, you're probably so far away
::from hitting that level of intensity that you're not going to stimulate a meaningful
::strengthening response.
::And at the other end of the continuum of, we have a low load skill practice
::where we're building control.
::And if you want to build fine control, well, you have to generally reduce the
::load so that you can execute the movement perfectly.
::Like if you're learning to play the flute with, you know, five pound weights
::tied to each finger, that would be much harder than doing it without.
::And so when we're practicing, you know, control or skill or however you want
::to term it, doing it with low load and, you know, aiming for perfect form is the way to achieve that.
::Whereas when we're developing strength, we have to do it with high load and
::we actually have to push to the point where form deteriorates in order to know that we're succeeding.
::So really the appearance that you see, you know, the client,
::you know, whether the quality of their form and the quality of their movement
::is going to be essentially mutually exclusive between developing those two attributes.
::And like you say, you know, you said neither one's right or wrong.
::I would go a little bit stronger and I would say both are important.
::And I think in Pilates, we weigh over index on control, you know,
::usually at the expense of, of strength.
::Yeah, yeah. I mean, that suits my bias, you know, as as well.
::I got absolutely I'd rather I'd rather just be strong.
::And I think this leads to, you know, like, we can segue in plenty of ways.
::And I think a lot of this turns into like a safety concern for clients is if
::it doesn't look safe, then it's not safe.
::And for me, like a big thing about safety is, is it safety in the presence of
::me or is it safety in the other 23 hours of your day?
::And so what are we training for? And for me, I feel like, one,
::like having more muscle mass in reserve is going to allow you to be safer throughout the day.
::And then also the one consideration when we talk about control and precision
::and movement quality and things of that nature is like how many,
::like for me, I've really just shifted towards promoting more movement options
::and having people perform exercises and challenge their strength in a variety
::of different alignments.
::And that that could also be perceived as safety as well.
::And it's not that we're creating compensatory patterns that are negative because
::this idea of compensatory patterns with increased load, because alignment changes,
::is perceived as negative.
::But what if it is the body's brilliant adaptation and its own brilliance to
::respond to different demands and that we're just training in more areas to therefore
::become more resilient under various different contexts rather than just the
::sole context of moving slow and controlled.
::And also like a consideration is that the slow and controlled isn't necessarily
::better, especially through the aging process.
::Speed is actually a massive barrier for people.
::They tend to, we move slower. So we actually like slowing control is like the
::opposite of what I would advocate to treat older adults, which is really where
::my head is nowadays. And I just feel passionate about it.
::Is to actually, we want to build strength. We want to build power.
::So we actually, yeah, you want, yeah, power.
::And then it's like, well, what is power, right? If we don't know what strength
::is, we probably don't know what power is. And that's just essentially move fast.
::It's explosive strength. Especially to the consensus.
::Explosive strength right so it's just like push
::the carriage out as fast as you can just just a quick sidebar
::here why does an older adult need explosive strength well just say
::you trip you need to be able to catch yourself on your leg and that's an
::explosive deceleration for example that's just one absolutely and that's multiple
::systems right and so and and that has to do with fall prevention and you know
::the stats on fall on on falls if you fall and you break a hip you have a 600
::you have a six times um or six x uh height and probability of mortality in the
::next year it's a massive problem.
::Anyways, I won't go down that rabbit hole, but the point is that having a fundamental
::understanding of exercise science is essential for Pilates instructors,
::and it's additive to the Pilates that we know.
::That has to do with strength, but in this case also power, but also like laws
::of specificity in that slow and controlled exercises are not going to transfer
::to anything outside of being slow and controlled, and there's benefits to being slow and controlled.
::But we can't see we we we cannot assume that it's going to transfer it to other things,
::whereas if we're working with someone we want to get them stronger we're going
::to have to buy a strength so we have to know what strength is and that only
::works if we understand the accurate definition of that two two reframes that
::really sort of turn my brain inside out as i was going through my exercise science
::degree what is uh number one on the safety thing.
::That um you know like i used to
::believe that you know when somebody's you know form didn't
::look quote you know correct that that indicated that
::they were unsafe in the movement but the reframe that really changed my thinking
::was that well life is inherently involves you know awkward positions and you
::know different ranges of motion and unexpected forces you know kids bumping
::into your dog's bumping into you, stepping off a curb without realizing it.
::You know, there's all kinds of unexpected situations. You can't walk around
::in every joint perfectly aligned at all times. And actually what,
::what our job as exercise professionals is to help people build tolerance to
::those unexpected situations so that they have the load capacity to, you know,
::to, to, to resist the forces in, you know, when, in those situations.
::So we need to build tolerance in those awkward positions.
::And the way you build tolerance in awkward positions is you have to.
::Be in awkward positions under load, you know, and of course you have to start,
::you know, relatively low and progressively, you know, increase over time.
::So that was the one big reframe was that in order to get, become safer,
::we actually have to expose ourselves to the very stressor that we want to be able to tolerate.
::And so avoiding that stressor actually makes us
::weaker in those positions and weaker overall so
::and that's the first one and the second
::one is the reframe that really kind of melted my
::brain was around what you'd said about form deteriorating
::you know in quotes as you uh add
::load and get close to failure and the reframe that really blew me away and this
::actually came from research i read on power lifting where um they found that
::these researchers basically analyzed the technique of powerlifters doing a deadlift.
::And these were elite powerlifters like you
::know nationally and internationally competitive lifters and
::they looked at their technique under different levels of load and they found
::that under low load they had many different sort of versions of you know when
::their knees extended versus when the hips extended versus you know what alignment
::their spine was in etc but that as the load increased to roughly 90% or more of their maximum lift,
::their technique all converged onto a very, very narrow range.
::And so there's other research on this as well, but I won't go down those roads.
::But basically, the reframe for me was that we have this idea of...
::Of what ideal form looks like. The body should be all right angles,
::all of the joints should be straight, it should look effortless, blah, blah, blah.
::The head should be above the shoulders, whatever it might be.
::And so when we're lifting anything, whether it's our hand in a teacup or a light
::weight or whatever it might be, we try and assume this kind of pretty looking form.
::But as we get closer and closer to our maximum effort, our motor cortex takes
::over and says, no, you idiot, that's actually not a biomechanically efficient
::way to lift this maximal thing.
::If you want to lift up this really, really heavy thing, you're going to have
::to organize yourself in the most biomechanically efficient way possible.
::And we have research showing that, for example, in the spine,
::the most biomechanically efficient, the actual strongest position of the spine
::is like 80% or 90% of full flexion, right?
::Because then the tension on the passive structures, the ligaments at the back,
::the lumbodossal fascia, et cetera, is maximized.
::And those structures are actually much stronger than the muscles themselves.
::So that basically, as we're in that quote, good alignment, that's just our kind
::of made up fantasy of what we think should be efficient and safe.
::But when we actually try to do something really maximal.
::Our non-conscious motor parts of our brain just take over and go,
::actually like you step aside i've got it from here i'm going to do this actually
::the way that the body is most efficient and it starts to look in our eyes ugly
::and unsafe but that that's actually we've got it wrong we've got it wrong the
::the pretty one is actually less efficient.
::It is and and a lot of the i think it also goes down to understanding how low
::load um pilates is you know yes we do use springs on the reformer let's just say for footwork,
::But in order to even just get to body weight, which is highly variable from
::person to person, you're going to have to put on like three or four springs
::just to meet someone's body weight.
::And then you have maybe one spring left to add on a little bit more than body
::weight, which would be like holding
::a, I don't know, a 20 pound weight or something and doing a sit to stand.
::Like it's really, it's really low load for the otherwise healthy individual.
::And I think that can be really empowering for us in that we're not even close
::to the realm of potential injury.
::And exercise, organized exercise, even CrossFit, you know, there's good literature
::on like how the rate of injuries is actually really low.
::Like you're probably more likely to get injured riding a bike.
::You know, which is not like a dangerous activity for otherwise healthy individuals
::or, you know, slipping at the grocery store than you are to exercise.
::Science and that i'm sorry to butt in just for a sec but
::that also goes for you know power lifting olympic weightlifting
::going to the gym break dancing yoga you
::know like all of these things are if you look at the
::number of injuries per thousand hours of participation they're like right
::right down there with ballroom dancing you know yeah
::and a lot of those go down to to skill and like
::i'm not defending like the person who bought a groupon who
::went to like the 25 reformer studio that has
::a disco ball and a smoke machine and then they're just like doing crazy shit
::like they they might fall right just due to like the crazy exercise kind of
::thing and then there's absolutely a skill like start you know go just like a
::crossfit class or powerlifting like start you know at the beginner level and
::then like work your way up and there's ways to expose yourself to that from
::a physiological perspective but also a skill perspective.
::But when we start to see a knee wobble, when we are, you know,
::loading the quadriceps for, let's just say, knee extension,
::that's a sign that, like, we're just starting to get too close to,
::like, a strength response or a hypertrophy.
::And I think the problem is really well-meaning, because we're educated to do
::this, is to prioritize the wobble more than the fatigue.
::And so we end up stopping people, you know, 20 yards short of even just starting
::to get the hypertrophy and the strength gains, which kind of leads me to some
::of what I just posted about, about like hypertrophy literature,
::you know, which we can go, we can go into, I think is, is also useful that we,
::you know, we just get misled if we don't, if we don't really understand these
::concepts where it's like, oh, but light loads get just as much hypertrophy as heavy loads.
::Um but you have to go way past the the wobble um you know of the knee or the
::or the the movement of of the spine and things of that nature pilates is just
::inherently safe outside of like traumatic.
::Exercises of our traumatic experiences of falling in things of that nature i
::i can't tell you one client that has had a real injury from misalignment in
::an exercise so if you want to so if you want to build strength, you have to, uh,
::subject the body and it's not just the muscles, the tendons,
::ligaments, joints, et cetera.
::Um, you have to subject the body to high levels of mechanical stress and that is a stimulus.
::And then of course you have to have proper nutrition and rest and all of that
::stuff. But yeah, basically you need a, a strengthening stimulus is a high level
::of mechanical, uh, tension, you know, on the, on the muscle fibers for say, for example. and.
::In a Pilates class, you know, I think we talk about strength,
::I see a lot of people talking about strength, but not wanting to,
::you know, bulk up, not wanting to, you know, I think hypertrophy,
::you know, muscle growth is a little bit of a conflicted term in the Pilates
::world because, you know, some people want it in some parts of the body and not
::in other parts of the body and some people don't want it at all.
::Um but really it's i mean there are other components to strength other than muscle size but,
::essentially a bigger more muscular body part is going to be a stronger body
::part and it's very hard to get a lot stronger without your muscles getting bigger
::because that those are the primary units of force production.
::And so if you have small force producers, you're not going to produce a lot of force.
::And yet we have this kind of paradoxical love-hate relationship,
::I would say, with muscle growth in Pilates, where we kind of want it and we
::kind of don't want it at the same time.
::So, you know, I think how do you –,
::How do you reconcile that with the people that you work with?
::Because, you know, you're an educator as well, not just with your clients,
::but with your, you know, you teach Pilates instructors.
::How do you teach people or how do you have that conversation with people on
::social media, for example,
::that, you know, we actually do want, like, if you want to help someone get stronger,
::like, it's going to be unavoidable that you're going to need to help them grow their muscles.
::Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I can come at this from from multiple angles.
::One, if I were a client facing, which I think is really helpful for the client,
::because that's what are for the Pilates instructor, right? Like, like, what would I do?
::And then also just different different ways of defining this is sometimes I
::just use my own personality when I work with people and say,
::like, I've been trying to get bulky for years, and it's really hard.
::So I mean, if you accidentally get bulky, let me know, and then we'll change what we're doing.
::And then like that's one way that I that I go with
::them and I just just try to humor them and like okay you know they most
::of the time you know they they try not they don't worry other times it's helpful
::to go a little bit deeper into the education and to say that someone getting
::bulky or increasing muscle mass does not happen overnight you will not wake
::up you know tomorrow and look like like Popeye's sailor man it happens over
::time and it's also a lot harder to gain muscle than it is to lose muscle.
::So if for some reason we, we build too much muscle, then it's really easy to lose it.
::Like, we'll just do something different and then we'll lose,
::then we'll lose the muscle. Like, like that's, it's one of those things of like,
::you know, you can go backwards really easily.
::Um, like you can just lay in bed for three days and like, there you go. Like we did it.
::Uh, you know, things of that nature. But then also I think when,
::with Pilates, I think there's a difference between, um, like the academic terminology
::of what is muscle strength And then what people say, I want to be stronger.
::A lot of times when people say I want to be stronger, it's like I want to be
::able to do tasks more easily.
::I want to feel like I have more energy at the end of the day.
::And it's like this, I feel stronger.
::Um, so a lot of times people are actually defining endurance and then they feel
::better with Pilates. So it's like, ha, I got stronger.
::And a lot of times when we're talking about strength, like you and I are talking
::about strength, we're talking about isotonic strength in the sense of strengthening
::prime movers to achieve a task.
::So you're doing a pushup, right? You go down, you go up, you're doing a squat,
::you're going down, you go up.
::And a lot of times Pilates, um, if we're talking about strength,
::it's a lot of it is like isometrics.
::And then if we actually double click on that, it's really like isometric, um, endurance.
::It is maintaining a position, right? Can you go up into teaser and hold it and
::then lower and lift the straps?
::The lowering and lifting the straps is not the hard part. You're on like a one spring.
::The holding the teaser, that's the hard part.
::It's maintaining that. And this is why I say there's so many ways to win.
::It's just becoming more sophisticated and understanding how are we winning at Pilates?
::Do we want to win by having that sense of feeling stronger in the sense of we
::have more energy at the end of the day and I feel like that shoulder pain is
::gone and I can move it? right?
::Like that's not exactly the academic term of strength, but people will say, I feel stronger, right?
::And just being able to understand what exactly, what's that,
::what are the, how are they using that term? Meaning the common, the lay person.
::And then if we're talking about it from like an educational point of view or
::from like colleague to colleague, and we're talking about strength,
::that's like, are we talking about isometric strength?
::Isometric strength could be like just getting up into a position that you have to hold.
::Um, you know, it doesn't tell you about how long you hold it,
::but like, can you get in there? How long you can hold it is going to be like
::your isometric endurance.
::And then, and then talking about isotonics. And if anyone's confused on isometric,
::isotonic, isometric means you're generating tension, but you're not moving in a really simple term.
::Isotonic would be you're generating force, but you're creating movement.
::That's concentric, eccentric contractions.
::So that's where I think that there's a lot of confusion because what like party
::one, we'll talk about like isometric endurance.
::And then party two is talking about like isometric or isotonic strength.
::And we're trying to synonymize terms that are not the same.
::Um, and that's where having a strong academic background is,
::is valuable because then we, we understand if you're talking about a chair,
::I'm talking about a table, like they're not the same thing. And I think,
::yeah, that's, that's my, that's my rabbit hole on that Ralph.
::It's just, it's just like, we just, it goes, it goes down to what you started
::with. Like we need to understand what words mean. Yeah.
::I think we do need, I think we do need. So, I mean, you, you define strength
::pretty clearly right at the start, but just to re recap that it's the ability
::to generate force in a specific movement or position and strength is specific.
::So you can't say that, you know, So there's no sort of like real,
::the definition of strength is task specific.
::So your ability to lift a certain object, you know, in a certain position or
::your ability to move, you know, a certain bit of machinery or whatever it might
::be, or your own body weight.
::And so you can be strong at one thing and less strong at another thing,
::you know, and it depends on how you measure it. So it is very, very specific.
::And you know the you know we go on
::on this podcast a lot about strength and
::you know certainly i am as an
::exercise scientist as you are um uh you
::know very biased towards strength um but i i became that way by just reading
::mountains of literature both on physical function and well-being but but also on longevity.
::And, you know, of the things that we can accomplish in Pilates,
::you know, we can help people with their flexibility, we can help people with
::their movement skill, with their balance, with their coordination,
::you know, lots of different things we can help people with.
::But of all of those things, the one thing that is going to have like the by far,
::like orders of magnitude largest impact on their longevity and health span is
::increasing their strength by a mile.
::Absolutely. And I feel like it's,
::It's common for a Pilates instructor to go into this paradox of like, of, um...
::When you hear this stuff, it can be challenging because it can be conflicting
::with an education that you love and that you respect, like your educators.
::And what I want to say to anyone listening to this is that you don't have to
::change the way you teach Pilates.
::Like you can love Pilates, but I think it's important, like a really great teacher
::understands the limitations of what they're teaching.
::And a lot of this can go into the education that we provide our clients.
::You know, and we can also have the same conversation with bone mineral density,
::right? We want Pilates to be good at everything because we love Pilates,
::but Pilates is not a great cardiovascular stimulant. It's not.
::And it's also like the traditional Pilates has many things, but if you want
::to go from a historical point of view, Joseph Pilates referred to muscle fatigue as poison.
::It's returned to life. I forgot what page, sorry.
::Read it though. So you don't have to change the way you teach,
::but you also can if you choose to.
::If you choose not to, I respect that. But if you know information,
::it's the ethical thing to provide education to clients to say this is helpful for X, Y, Z.
::In addition to Pilates, I also recommend doing some strength training.
::And then you can either refer them to a practitioner in your neighborhood that
::you recommend or a group class if those resources are more available.
::But to say that Pilates is your strength training, uh, to a general individual
::who doesn't, he's not an exercise scientist or moving professional to me.
::That's where, that's where I have a conflict because that goes down to like
::providing misleading information to someone that 10 years,
::20 years down the road can have a significant impact because they thought they
::were doing great things for the bone mineral density and their muscle mass because
::they felt good doing Pilates, but they actually weren't.
::And I'm just, I'm on team do both and just know what they mean.
::I do Pilates and I do strength training for a good reason. And I recommend that
::to as many people as will listen to me. It goes down to do both.
::Um, but maybe you don't want to do both. Like I work with people that hate going
::to the gym and I, they want to do Pilates.
::All right, cool. Let's do Pilates. Your Pilates is going to look a little different
::because you don't want to go to the gym.
::So, um, you know, here's another spring and, and like, that's just,
::that's what we're doing.
::And that's where I talk about making more sophisticated choices.
::And it's not like random, uh,
::changes to Pilates because I saw it on Instagram, right? Which can be fun.
::Right. But, but these are sophisticated choices. Like what's the goal?
::What are the circumstances?
::And then I'm changing, I'm making a clinical decision based on my reasoning for this response.
::And that takes, that takes skills. It takes knowledge. It takes confidence.
::And honestly, a lot of time to develop that.
::And I just applaud, you know, anyone who's willing to go on that journey because
::we're, we're here to help people.
::To sum up what you said and sort of paraphrase it back at you.
::If you want to keep teaching Pilates the way you're teaching it,
::fine, great, but just, don't call it strength training if you're not already
::teaching a progressive loading way of teaching Pilates.
::And I recommend people to go do some strength training as well.
::And if you want to strengthen your clients in Pilates, that's totally possible,
::but you're going to have to be intentional about it and you're going to have to make,
::choices that deliberately add load to your client, whether that's adding a spring,
::taking a spring off, lifting their knees up or whatever it might be,
::to create situations where their tissues are subjected to high levels of mechanical
::stress because that's how you build strength.
::Yeah and even and i think this also
::goes down to like in intensity conversations too and that that you know strength
::training can feel intense and so is cardiovascular work and even just from like
::like uh if we look at physical activity guidelines like it's a two-to-one ratio
::in terms of health outcomes like that means health outcomes meaning reducing
::cancer mortality like your ability like
::you dying from cancer in the future um all-cause mortality dying
::from any you know non-traumatic cause um cardiovascular disease
::diabetes mellitus uh things of that nature um
::it's a it's like generally thought to be a two-to-one ratio with vigorous intensity
::exercise compared to moderate intensity exercise meaning two
::minutes is like like you have double the value per minute um and then but and
::then even like more recent literature is challenging that i'm still suspicious
::on the numbers but is challenging that as well and so this idea that it's like
::quality over quantity is just it's folklore it's not based on anything other
::than a manual that was written by an entrepreneur.
::It's not based on any data. The data shows that actually higher intensity,
::if you just control for time, is actually way more valuable.
::That doesn't mean you have to do high intensity.
::You know, you can do like any movement, like the best movement is the one that you'll do.
::But to shy away or to argue against high
::intensity for the sake of quality movement
::or organization or these vague terms that are
::are shown to us in pilates um education it's
::it's a disservice it's it's absolute misinformation and it's not supported by
::any science it's it's in direct conflict um with it and i i would just advocate
::to add higher intensities if it is um appropriate um for the individual i'm
::in front of you or for you yourself like make you know.
::It's not a poor thing. It's not a bad thing.
::It's actually extremely healthy when we talk about things that are more important
::than our waistline or the girth of our arms, but more or less mortality in things
::that matter throughout the lifespan.
::Well, paradoxically, when I talk with John Howard Steele, who was a client of
::Joseph Pilates in the last few years of Joseph's life in the early 60s,
::he talks of being bathed in sweat and shaking after his workout and just going
::home and collapsing for hours.
::You know, that the workout was incredibly vigorous.
::And looking at, you know, thinking about those exercises that if you were brought
::up in the classical contemporary tradition, probably you would consider the advanced moves.
::But in Joseph's original Contrology, there was no like advanced moves.
::You just started with the moves.
::And, you know, I'm thinking about things like, you know, like the teaser,
::like high bridge, like snake, twist, et cetera, and the reformer control back
::and front, all of those like really strong moves.
::Like you can build genuine load and strength, you know, with those moves.
::And yeah, so I don't think Pilates is incompatible with strengthening at all.
::Now, can you build like elite power lifter levels of strength in Pilates?
::No, you can't. There's just not enough resistance available on the machines.
::But can you be like two standard deviations stronger than the average,
::you know, sedentary adult?
::Absolutely. You know, by just using reformers and mats and, you know,
::a ladder barrel or something.
::So, you know, I don't think Pilates is, you know, it's, it's kind of weird to
::me that we have this idea that Pilates should be all slow and soft and low load.
::And, you know, it's, it's like, that's actually not where Pilates started, you know?
::Yeah, it almost challenges the notion that Pilates is synonymous with contralogy.
::Like for me, I feel like Pilates is contralogy inspired movement.
::And I just started laughing when you started talking about John Howard Steele
::being like drenched in sweat.
::And the reason why, because I started thinking in pictures of like Joseph Pilates
::grabbing people's faces and hair during the sessions while he's in his underwear.
::And I'm like, well, yeah, I would probably listen to him too.
::And um and that was you know it's just like it didn't seem
::very uh you know i wasn't there right but uh
::for the footage it didn't seem very gentle um it didn't
::really it seemed like it really challenged control uh for
::sure by doing this like herky jerky movement and it didn't seem to have much
::of a like a dance and aesthetic uh influence and so i think it's also like you
::can do you can do the same exercise um at four different studios you can do
::the roll-up and you can have like vastly different, um, experiences.
::So just because you're doing the exercises or the repertoire doesn't necessarily
::mean that it's the same, um, experience as it may have originally been.
::And not that we have to do things the way they're originally intended,
::because I'm also not pulling my client's hair, um, you know,
::things of that nature, but I think it's a good perspective.
::Yeah, yeah, it's fine, right? Like, don't film this. Like, whatever we do for money around here.
::So, yeah, I think it's just fair to show that there's just many ways to experience
::this and that, to me, that's really cool and fun because it just means there's
::more to learn and that there's more to experience.
::And that also, it keeps Pilates really interesting because you can be a chameleon
::for your own clients because if anyone's taught more than 10 people, that your 9 a.m.
::Client is not the same as your 10 a.m. client, whether it be the cues that you
::use, the exercises that you select, or in this case, maybe the intensity or
::how you choose to, like what you choose to bias in that exercise.
::Yeah, something you touched on there really resonated with me,
::and I think it's worth unpacking just for a moment,
::that, you know, and I'm sort of paraphrasing and building here,
::but basically the feeling that as a Pilates instructor, you need to have the solution,
::every possible solution to every possible problem of anyone who might walk through
::your door, that just puts immense pressure on yourself.
::That is unrealistic. I mean, as a physiotherapist, as an exercise physiologist,
::as a medical doctor, you don't have a solution for everybody.
::So there is no solution for everybody. And certainly as a Pilates instructor,
::we have a relatively narrow scope of expertise and we can help certain people
::with certain things in certain circumstances.
::And so just taking the pressure off yourself and thinking like, okay, well,
::maybe I can help this person, but maybe it's like this person's better off going
::to the gym or some other practitioner.
::And you don't have to have all of the solutions to that.
::And we don't have to try and figure out how Pilates can cure cancer.
::You know, by applying the principles or what it's like, we can just go,
::yeah, I'm not sure if it can cure cancer, but we can give you a great workout, you know?
::Yeah, absolutely. And, and it's like one thing that I find peace in is that,
::um, you know, science doesn't have all the answers.
::And so if science doesn't have all the answers, like I sure don't.
::Um, but just, you know, always being a student, you know, of Pilates is,
::is really, is really fun.
::And I don't mean that by just, you know, constantly doing it,
::but constantly learning from your clients.
::And, you know, they're teaching you how to teach. And so, you know,
::be a student and immerse yourself in that.
::But then while you are doing so, it's helpful to understand like correct terminology.
::And, you know, going back to the basis of this conversation of like, well, what is strength?
::And then if your client is using
::strength, like figuring out what their definition of strength is, right?
::Because I can't tell you how many times it's like people want strength because
::they want to be able to stand up taller and not have pain in their back at the end of the day.
::Like, is strength going to help with that? Yeah.
::But that's an endurance activity. Like, that's actually talk about stamina.
::And so then you get more clarity on individuals.
::And for me, that's what's really fun about human movement, regardless if it's
::Pilates or personal training or physiotherapy, like, you know, whatever it may be.
::Um so there's just many ways
::to to win here and i hope that this is just valuable you know
::for people to have more clarity on ways
::to win at pilates and also you know
::just how much value there is for any pilates instructor to study human movement
::and human science that has nothing to do with pilates and then you bring it
::back into pilates and if you can do that if you know pilates exercises and you
::know exercise science like you'll be a powerhouse um in this industry like hands down.
::I think that's a really good point, what you said then about the way that you
::communicate with a client.
::It's much better to use the client's language and words. And if they mean something
::different by strength than the textbook definition, it's fine to use that term.
::And I think that point applies more broadly. The clients don't necessarily need
::to know words like scapular or that type of thing. You can just say the back of your shoulder.
::And that might be a better way of communicating that.
::Whereas on the flip side, when we're communicating within our own profession,
::I think the precision of words is very, very important because...
::I mean, if, you know, if you had two pilots flying the plane and,
::you know, they were using different meanings for the word altitude,
::you know, like that would be a problem.
::Luckily, the stakes are a little bit lower in Pilates.
::But yeah, I think there's a difference between, I just think educators are to
::be held accountable for education, just like Pilates instructors should be held
::accountable for knowing Pilates choreography, you know, and things of that nature.
::And that's really, you know, my mission in the Pilates,
::you know, I can just speak for myself in the Pilates space, you know,
::from an educational point of view is to elevate the education of Pilates because
::we, you know, we deserve to have accurate information.
::And then, you know, if we're looking to have accurate information,
::that would be, you know, from a science perspective.
::And it's okay for things to change, you know, over time because that's how science works.
::You know some of you listening you know
::may already know this but adam and i worked together for several years
::and i had that great pleasure now adam
::is out in the world doing his own thing where can people find you adam and what
::do you think yeah yeah thank you yeah um so with that you can find me on instagram
::uh at adam mackatee uh pilates um i'm in the pilates education space to help build the skills,
::knowledge, and confidence of Pilates instructors worldwide.
::So if you enjoy science, I'm happy to be a good resource for you.
::And as always, a pleasure talking with you, Adam. Thanks so much for coming on the show.
::Yeah, thanks, Raph.
