Shownotes
The discussion centers on the intricacies of Tiger Woods' career, particularly focusing on his evolving approach to expectations following injuries. We delve into the nuances of his public statements, especially his repeated assertion of "making progress," which has oscillated between over-promising and under-promising as his career progressed. The episode further examines the significance of his 2019 Masters victory, deemed by many as a pinnacle in his storied career, and the factors that contributed to its unique status. Additionally, we address the current landscape of professional golf, including the dynamics involving the PGA Tour and LIV Golf, highlighting the potential ramifications for key figures within these organizations. Our conversation aims to provide a comprehensive understanding of the enduring legacy of Tiger Woods and the evolving nature of competitive golf.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Painted Hills Natural Beef
- Tiger Woods
- Dustin Johnson
- Brooks Koepka
- Molinari
- Shaw Flay
- Jack Nicklaus
- LIV
- PGA Tour
- Authentic Brands Group
- Arena Group
- Sports Illustrated
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcripts
Welcome to Grilling at the Green After Hours, the conversation that took place after the show ended.
Speaker B:Hi, everybody, it's JT and this is a special version of Grilling at the Green.
Speaker B:Grilling at the Green is brought to you in part by Painted Hills Natural Beef.
Speaker B:Beef you can be proud to serve your family and friends.
Speaker B:That's Painted Hills Natural Beef, everybody.
Speaker B:Welcome to After Hours here on Grilling at the Green.
Speaker B:I'm JT along with Bob Herring today and his new book, the Lasting Legacy of Tiger Woods.
Speaker B:So here's a Tiger always said he was making progress after he would get injured and he would play in a tournament and he would, and then go to the presser and you and all the people in there and ask him and he'd look at you and just say, we're making progress.
Speaker B:How many times do you think he said that in his career?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:A thousand maybe.
Speaker A:I mean.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, Tiger was not one to, it's, it's funny, he.
Speaker A:For the longest time I thought Tiger over promised, you know, like he tried to downplay any, any negatives.
Speaker A:And then during this latter part of his career when he's had issues, he's under promised.
Speaker A:Like two years ago when he was coming back at the Masters, six weeks before at Riviera, he gave no indication that he would be playing in the Masters.
Speaker A:He downplayed it big time.
Speaker A:He's like, yeah, I got a long way to go, you know, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker A:I mean, I'll play golf sometime this year.
Speaker A:It just, it just didn't seem possible.
Speaker A:But yet deep down inside, he knew he was trying.
Speaker A:He didn't let that on.
Speaker A:And so, you know, that has changed over, over, over the years he's, he's become much more about lowering expectations now, now this past time in the Bahamas when he acknowledged, look, I'm feeling well enough that I think maybe I could play once a month.
Speaker A:That was more of, of an honest and optimistic assessment.
Speaker A:Something we hadn't seen much in the last five, six years.
Speaker B: s he think the two night, the: Speaker B:I know it's a major.
Speaker B:I know his kids were there and that type of thing, but just the comeback, hence the book drive.
Speaker B:But how does he feel about that one in relationship?
Speaker B:In the book you rate it as the number one of all his majors.
Speaker B:Okay, but how does he think about it?
Speaker B:Does he ever shared that with you?
Speaker A:It's a good question.
Speaker A:I Think he looks at it as very, very special.
Speaker A:And he might hold it in the highest regard for a lot of reasons, the comeback, he wasn't expected to win.
Speaker A:He wasn't the, you know, he wasn't the top guy.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:First time he ever came from behind to win a major, which I've always thought it was a bit of a, kind of a dubious stat.
Speaker A:I mean, in many of the majors, he was behind in the final round.
Speaker A:He might have been the 54 hole leader and given up the lead and come back to win.
Speaker A:I just, I think that stat is a little misplayed, like you can't win from behind.
Speaker A:Tiger didn't have to win from behind.
Speaker A:He was always in front.
Speaker A:Like, why would that be, why would that be a negative?
Speaker A:But so I, I do think he probably holds it in, in high regard in that context.
Speaker A:If you were to say, what was your greatest victory?
Speaker A: He might go with: Speaker A:You know it.
Speaker A:And if he did.
Speaker A:And, and, and, and by the way, in that ranking, I admitted recency bias might be getting the best of me here.
Speaker A:But I just think when you add it up, all the factors, you know, he wasn't tiger of 10, 15 years ago.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:He was a diminished Tiger.
Speaker A:He had Dustin Johnson, Brooks Koepka, you know, Molinari had beat him at the Open the year before and had just won Bay Hill a few weeks before and was playing lights out and wasn't making any mistakes.
Speaker A:He finally did, but he wasn't making any.
Speaker A:And, and you know, Tiger had a lot to overcome there and all those top players in the mix, Shaw Flay finished tied for second.
Speaker A:It was amazing.
Speaker A:Not unlike what Jack did in 86 when he had to beat Sevy and Tom Kite and Greg Norman.
Speaker A:There was a lot of guys in the mix that, at that Masters, just like there was this, this one, The Tiger one.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Always makes you wonder if Tiger has the rear view mirror in his car removed so he doesn't ever think behind him, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker B:It's just like that.
Speaker B:Have you ever played around a golf with Tiger, Bob?
Speaker A:I played three holes with Tiger one time.
Speaker A: golf course design in Cabo in: Speaker A:And I got invited and I went because, you know, Tiger had been in the design business for a while, but none of his courses that he designed had opened.
Speaker A:And those, those are not necessarily things that have anything to do with him.
Speaker A:That's developers and money and, but he had, he had put together, you know, several golf Course designs.
Speaker A:And finally this one called El di Monte in Cabo was opening.
Speaker A:And so, you know, they had kind of a big grand opening thing.
Speaker A:And I went and as part of it was he played the course, you know, as you know, to, you know, obviously it's sort of like the official first round.
Speaker A:And he played nine holes by himself where he had a microphone and people walked along with him and he talked about all the shots.
Speaker A:And then when he got to the back nine, he, There was three different groups of people that played three holes with him and one of them was a media group and one of them was Steve d' Amiglio who you mentioned.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Earlier.
Speaker A:And, and then Ron Green Jr. Who, who works in Charlotte for Global Golf Post.
Speaker A:And you know, we played, we played three holes with Tiger.
Speaker A:And yeah, I mean, look, it was a little bit nerve wracking.
Speaker A:I, I, I do not have a game, I do not have a game to put on display at all.
Speaker A:But I did par that first hole, the 10th hole.
Speaker A:It was a short par four, so it made life a little bit easier.
Speaker A:And you know, Tiger, I get the sense that Tiger has been through that so many times that he just is at ease with it, you know, and playing, playing in a, in a, in a group with, with, with a bunch of media guys is probably, you know, no worse than any pro am that he's ever been in.
Speaker A:And he was, he was very gracious.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:When I've seen, you know, videos and stuff of him doing that in pro ams or with media people, he just seems to be, I got this, don't worry about it, you know, kind of chill almost on, on things with people like that.
Speaker B:And then when he watched the first tea for real, you know, Darth Vader comes out.
Speaker B:But, you know, blinders.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:With blinders like that.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:Let's switch over to talk a little bit about live before we wrap up here.
Speaker B:You said that there's a lot going on.
Speaker B:Said that in the, before we came on the air today.
Speaker B:So one question that I want to ask you, and you touched on it in the regular show a little bit.
Speaker B:But do you think Moynihan can.
Speaker B:Or Monahan, I should say, excuse me.
Speaker B:Can he survive this?
Speaker B:And I have no dog in that fight either way.
Speaker B:But just from an outsider, I'm looking at that going between Norman Jay and, I don't know what they call the, do they call him his Highness or something?
Speaker B:He's got some sort.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yasser.
Speaker B:Yasser.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I would think that one of the two guys.
Speaker B:Yasser isn't probably going anywhere unless they get him on this investigation thing they're doing.
Speaker B:Now, either Norman or Jay, one of them is not going to be there in the long run.
Speaker B:It just.
Speaker B:That's just business.
Speaker B:You can't have two things like that.
Speaker B:What's your.
Speaker B:What's your take on that?
Speaker A:Well, in relation to Jay, I really think it depends on how this all shakes out.
Speaker A:I mean, if this thing goes through and it ends up being a great deal for the players, he might be applauded for seeing it through.
Speaker A:He's been criticized for not talking to them in the beginning, which I might defend him on, because at the time, he was trying very hard to.
Speaker A:To, you know, to keep the PGA Tour as it is.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And a lot of us would have thought that you'd fight them and not join forces with them.
Speaker A:Should he have taken a phone call from them early on?
Speaker A:Should he have.
Speaker A:Should he have at least listened?
Speaker A:I think we've all come to realize that, yeah, he should have.
Speaker A:But, I mean, in that moment, you know, I don't know.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's a tough one.
Speaker A:And as far as Norman, I don't know how that works.
Speaker A:If LIV is folded into the PGA Tour, I'm not sure quite sure how that happens.
Speaker A:If there is an agreement and they're part of PJ Tour Enterprises, I'm not sure what Norman's role is.
Speaker A:They've already outlined there will be a.
Speaker B:A.
Speaker A:The entity will have Yasser as the chairman of the board, and Jay would be the CEO of that new company, and it would be.
Speaker A:The board seats would be filled with PGA Tour people.
Speaker A:Now, it's very possible that all this is being negotiated right now, you know, and that started the things that we haven't heard yet.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Well, I know you gotta run here, bud, because there is live stuff happening.
Speaker B:And keep us posted on that, if you would.
Speaker B:But I want to thank you, and I want to recommend that people get your book drive.
Speaker B:Lasting legacy of Tiger Woods, Bob Herring, anything you want to say?
Speaker B:Sports Illustrated made the news.
Speaker B:Anybody that covers sports or anything got news flashes about layoffs and that.
Speaker B:But you're still there, and all is good.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, I think all is good remains to be seen.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:This is a.
Speaker A:You know, we never stopped.
Speaker A:We kept going.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:This is a.
Speaker A:A business deal that is at the very, very high levels.
Speaker A:And what.
Speaker A:What I think the mood is among my colleagues is no matter who prevails, no matter what happens, whether, you know, we're owned by Authentic Brands Group.
Speaker A:They don't run si.
Speaker A:They give a license to someone to run it, which is the Arena Group, who's my employer.
Speaker A:Whether the Arena Group continues to run si, we feel if they don't, somebody else will.
Speaker A:The brand is too big.
Speaker A:It brings too much value.
Speaker A:It still makes money.
Speaker A:And once that squabbling is over, they're going to want to have us minions who do the work to put out the product still, you know, so that's sort of how I'm looking at it.
Speaker A:And, you know, in the meantime, I just continue to do what I do.
Speaker B:I'll tell you what, I will stop reading it if I ever see you Van Sickle, maceli, any of those guys on the swim swimsuit edition on the COVID I'm not doing.
Speaker B:I got a line somewhere, Bob, and that's it.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I don't blame you.
Speaker B:Don't.
Speaker A:And you don't have to worry on my account.
Speaker A:No question.
Speaker B:All right, Bob Herring.
Speaker B:Thank you, buddy.
Speaker B:Good luck with everything and we'll be following up with you.
Speaker A:Thanks a lot, Jeff.
Speaker B:You got it.
Speaker A:Good.
Speaker B:We'll be back.
Speaker B:We'll be back next week with another show, another after hours.
Speaker B:Take care.
Speaker B:Go out, play some golf.
Speaker B:And the Masters is coming, folks.
Speaker B:Don't forget that.
