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Welcome back to another insightful episode of the IRA Cafe podcast! In this conversation, Kyle Moody, Business Development Manager at American IRA, sits down with Denise Appleby, owner and operator of Appleby Retirement Consulting, LLC, and widely recognized as the “IRA whisperer.” Denise brings over two decades of experience in the retirement industry, having started her career at one of the largest IRA custodians and eventually launching her own highly regarded consulting firm.

In this episode, Kyle and Denise explore the nuances of self-directed IRAs, dig into common mistakes investors make with their retirement accounts, and clarify misunderstood rules around rollovers and transfers. They also break down recent legislative developments, including the “Big Beautiful Bill” and its implications for kids’ retirement savings, as well as practical guidance for solo 401(k) entrepreneurs. Denise’s practical wisdom and straightforward advice shine throughout as she helps listeners understand how to make the most of their retirement vehicles while avoiding costly missteps.

Key takeaways:

1. The Importance of Proper Guidance: Denise stresses that before engaging in self-directed IRA transactions, investors must consult with qualified CPAs, tax attorneys, or ERISA attorneys to navigate complex IRS rules and avoid prohibited transactions that could inadvertently disqualify an entire IRA.
2. Rollover Rules and Costly Mistakes: One of the most common—and expensive—mistakes in the IRA world is misunderstanding the difference between rollovers and transfers, especially the once-per-12-month rule for IRA-to-IRA rollovers and eligibility criteria for moving employer plan assets into IRAs.
3. Working with Employer Plans: Whether funds can be moved from an employer-sponsored plan into a self-directed IRA depends on eligibility for in-service rollovers, which is ultimately determined by plan administrators—not IRA custodians or administrators.
4. The “Big Beautiful Bill” and Trump Accounts: While the bill didn’t directly impact IRAs, it introduced “Trump accounts”—new opportunities beginning in 2026 for parents and grandparents to start retirement savings for children from birth, even before children have earned income.
5. Solo 401(k) Insights for Entrepreneurs: Denise highlights that solo 401(k)s can be a powerful retirement savings tool for business owners with no full-time employees, offering high contribution limits and flexibility, but warns that operational steps—like proper plan adoption and employee coverage—must be completed before year-end to maximize benefits.

Whether you’re an experienced investor or just starting out, this episode offers indispensable insight into the evolving landscape of self-directed retirement accounts, the pitfalls to avoid, and the proactive steps to take so you can secure your financial future with confidence. Tune in to benefit from Denise Appleby’s expertise and learn how to make smarter decisions with your IRA!

Schedule a free consultation with our team today!

The IRS is the first one that's going to tell you. Listen, if you send us an email and we respond and it's wrong, we're not responsible.

Hi, everyone. Thank you. Wherever and whenever you are listening to us, we're coming to you again with another episode of the IRA Cafe, powered by American ira. I'm Kyle Moody, part of the business development team, and we're so privileged to have you with us today. It's always a great time when you can join us, so thank you so much today. Joining us is a great guest, a longtime friend and colleague of our company here at American ira. Today we have Denise Appleby. And Denise is the owner and operator of Appleby Retirement Consulting, llc.

Denise is an accomplished speaker and author. And it's not just that her practical experience, coupled with all of the credentials that you will see strung out behind her name that she is so humble and won't even tell you about probably is what really makes her a really credible consultant. And so even when I get stuck in my profession doing what I do, she really is the who you're going to call. And Denise is who we reach out to a lot. So, Denise, welcome and thanks for having me.

How are you? You?

I am, I am doing well and glad we could finally connect like this. I know that we always see each other on webinars that, that we're on together and, and watching a lot of slides and PowerPoints and you educating us from time to time throughout the year. So it is good to actually be here just to have a little bit of a chat.

Thank you so much for having me on, Cal.

Absolutely. Well, Denise, tell us a little bit about you and, you know, some of your background and to Applebee Consulting.

Well, I got hired by one of the largest IRA custodians in the industry in 1997, Pershing. I was hired for their ACAT department where you handle transfers. And when I got to work on the Monday morning, the IRA department was short, so they borrowed me and I took two IRAs like a fish to water and they never sent me back. You know, I love this stuff. There's a saying that if you love what you do, you never really work a day in your life. And that's really true because every morning I get up early and the first thing I do is scan the Internet to see what's new so I can learn it and pass on that information to people like you. Kyle. Yeah, so I worked for Persian for 10 years and then in 2005, I decided to go out on my own.

I was encouraged by a lot of Persian clients who only wanted to talk to me when they called Pershing. So they'll tell me, denise, why don't you start your own business so I can get to you when I need you instead of having to go through all those people. And so here I am.

Yeah, the people in the ACAD department are, since 1997, are still looking around going, is she going to show up? We've been waiting for about, what is that, 20, 28 years, something like that. So no, that's great. You know, I always say that anytime Denise is talking, I learned something and I just learned something there. Exactly where.

Thank you.

She came from. So, you know, as you know, Denise and everyone listening to us, we are the specialist in self directed retirement accounts. I mean, that's what we do day in and day out and we've been doing it for over two decades. You know, also that we get a lot of our education from you. You're updating us on a lot of things throughout the year, which we always appreciate. Tell me something or tell our listeners something that is one of the most important things that they should know when venturing out into the self directed IRA space.

Oh, what a great question. Because you know, when you see the headlines about Peter Thiel's Roth IRA and Mitt Romney's Roth IRA and the big balances that they accrue from self directed IRAs, you think, I want a piece of that pie too. And you know, you should go get it if you can afford to do it. But make sure that before you engage in that transaction, you talk to your CPA and you talk to your tax attorney, because it's not as simple as, oh, I want to buy that piece of land in my ira, there are certain rules that you must follow, certain requirements that must be met. So when you come to a firm like American ira, you should have already spoken with your, your attorney, your ERISA attorney, who's gonna tell you whether or not you can or can't do this. Because here's what I see happening a lot. And you know, you can Google prohibited transaction anytime. There are a lot of smart people who think that they are smart in this area, but they're not because it's a specialized area.

And so what we find happening is you think you have an IRA valued at $10 million, but it's not because your self directed IRA engaged in a prohibited transaction which disqualifies your IRA. So you want American IRA on your team so to execute the transaction. Absolutely. But you also Want to make sure you speak with your attorney so that they check everything to make sure that you are authorized and approved for this transaction.

Now, that's really great to hear. You know, in any phone call that I'm in with folks, it really, it's not always a sales call. It is more of an education call that ends up turning into a client. And that's really what I look at. I, I think in ways that we do this and, and have. Well, and we're doing it right now. We're, we're educating folks out there, whether they are sharpening the saw as a, as a longtime investor or whether it's somebody really starting out. And they, they really want to know this.

And truer words have never been spoken. I say it all the time, and Denise touched on it here, is that, you know, in our space, you know, me in the sales deck and all the way through our organization and really throughout the industry, we're not permitted to give any tax, legal or financial advice as we're not fiduciary. So I really appreciate you bolstering that fact there, Denise. Let's talk about IRAs in general. You know, you're known as the IRA whisperer. So folks may be coming to you not only for what they can do or the great parts of an ira, but also I think I may have made a mistake or have I done something wrong, or what do I need to watch out for? So let's talk about IRAs in general and what are maybe one of the most common mistakes that you will see folks make with their Iraq?

Yeah, one of the most common mistakes that I see is when individuals are moving their ira, because that's one of the most common transactions, too. You change your jobs, you want to roll over your old 401k to your IRA, or you might not like your old financial advisor or financial institution anymore. And so you want to move your ira. When you decide to move your ira, you have to remember that there are certain restrictions that apply. How often you can move that ira. If you use the rollover method, the type of account that you can move your IRA to. And one of the simplest rule that will help you avoid mistakes is to understand the difference between a rollover and a transfer. See, if I want to transfer my IRA to American IRA, I can do that all day long, 10 times a day, no problem, right? But if I want to use the rollover method, which means I go to my old financial institution, I ask for a distribution or withdrawal, and then I bring it to American ira, the Only way I can put that in my IRA is as a rollover.

Now if I'm going from IRA to IRA using the rollover method, I can do that only once during a 12 month period. What happens if I break that rule? The second rollover is invalid and I have to include it in income and it's no longer eligible to be held in my ira. And guess what Kyle, There is a taxpayer right now that broke the rollover rule, not this particular one that I'm talking about. He moved money from an employer plan to his ira, but those funds were not eligible to be rolled over. He didn't know that. You know, if you do something that you think is right, you don't think you have any reason to fix it. Right?

Sure.

And so sat there for many years. Now he owes the IRS eight and a half million dollars because he made a bad rollover that he didn't fix. So you see what's happening here. You think you have an ira, it's doing well, market's doing great, you look at your balance, you feel good, only to be told that you really don't have an IRA because the money that's in your IRA is not eligible to be held in your ira. That's the most common mistake that I see.

You know, one of the things that we get is if there are one of the most common questions we get. If someone is still employed and they have the, the owner, employer sponsored plan and they're looking to possibly move those funds into a self directed IRA for any of the various asset classes that we have, that's going to be real estate or private lending or investing into private equities and such. They come to me and they say, hey, can I, can I roll this over? Well, the short answer would be I don't know. And the reason I don't know is it's not that I'm not educated on. The answer is that you still work there. And it really is not an answer up to me. And it's really not an answer up to the client, the prospective client as well. And so I always tell them, I said, there is one phrase that you need to jot down and take it back to your HR or, or to your 401k administrator.

And that is, you know, are you eligible for an in service rollover? And if you, to your point, if somebody did that and didn't know, we're not going to be any the wiser. We're doing exactly what this person directed us to do. But yes, that is a major, major Question that somebody needs to get answered.

Yeah. It all comes down to eligibility, right? So if someone comes to you and say, I really like American IRA, I want to roll over my 401k to you guys, can I do it? And I usually like to start with, well, it depends. And you're right. The question becomes, are you eligible to make a withdrawal? And I can't answer that. You got to talk to your hr, as you say, and they'll probably put you in contact with the plan administrator. Now, if you are eligible to make a withdrawal, the question becomes, is that withdrawn, Eligible to be rolled over? I'll give you an example. If you're at least age 73, you're subject to what is called required minimum distributions, which is the provision under the law that says, hey, now you got to start paying the IRS income tax by taking withdrawals from your IRA or your employer plan every year. Now, if you're eligible to take withdrawals and you are at least 873 and subject to the required minimum distribution rules, you got to take your required minimum distribution before executing that rollover.

And if you don't, then it means that your required minimum distribution is included in the amount that is rolled over to your ira, which creates an ineligible rollover. And if you don't fix it, you could find that you owe the irs a second 6% excise tax for every year it stays in your IRA. 6% excise tax. Now, it's subject to a statute of limitation of six years that starts when you file your 1040. But still, you know, why give away that money to the IRS when you can avoid it by just doing the right thing in the first place?

Absolutely no. Good point. And see, folks, here's what I'm talking about is that literally the IRA whisperer. These are the things that I'm telling you. You are getting inside information right here that it would take you forever to probably dig online and find. And she just has this right at her fingertips. And this is again, why she's such a treasure to so many folks out there. Let me give you an example or just ask you something.

I get this. As a matter of fact, I got it Thursday night at a meeting I attended. You talked earlier about if someone's going to a like to like account, traditional to traditional, Roth to Roth, we all know that that's going to be the transfer. Okay? We always talk about the rollover, the direct rollover, when someone is coming from 401k into traditional platform there because it's an unlike type of account a 401k into an IRA. And we always talk about, though, someone can do a rollover if they can do more than one rollover, if it is the only way that they can get funds into an account. So let me ask you this. Obviously, if somebody does a transfer from a traditional to traditional, they can do that. And at the same time, they can do a direct rollover from a 401k into that same traditional, consolidate the funds, there they are, and move on.

Is it possible that if someone thought that they could get their money in quicker from the traditional to the traditional and did a rollover between the two, they can still do it? Does that negate that? We know that it negates them from being able to do another rollover from traditional to traditional. But can they still do a rollover from their 401k into their traditional, since technically it's the only way they can get the funds in there? Does that?

Absolutely, absolutely. And you know by traditional you mean a traditional IRA, right? So you're right. A rollover between two traditional IRAs can be done only once during a 12 month period. But that limitation, it's such a great question, Cal. That limitation only applies when you're doing a rollover from a traditional IRA to a traditional IRA or Roth IRA to Roth ira. It does not apply if you're moving money to or from an employer plan. So if you're rolling over your 401k to your IRA, you can break it up into 10 pieces if you want to, during a week, during a 12 month period, it doesn't matter. There's no limitation on that.

And just to add on to that question, even though a Roth conversion is technically defined as a distribution and a subsequent rollover, the one for your limitation does not apply to that either. Great question.

Gotcha. All right. See, I practiced my questions too. But no, it actually is something that, that comes up a lot. So knowing that I get that live a lot and I get it on the phone a lot with folks, that was probably going to be one of the main things that, I mean, I, you know, I've been studying this stuff for, for years as well. And you know, once in a while we just need a little bit of the sharpening of the saw ourselves. Because you also know, you never really know when tax code or tax laws might change. And of course you always keep us updated on that.

Talk to us a little bit about the irs people hear, you know, ira and you know, sometimes it can be a sleeper. It's not that, you know, Sexy of a topic to talk about unless somebody, you know, really do something cool with it. But you change those letters up a little bit and you go irs, and it just automatically sounds negative. I don't think I've ever heard a positive conversation about the irs. I've, I've walked right by it. I believe it's on Pennsylvania in Washington. Beautiful building, but nobody ever wants to go in. The reason I want you to tell us a little bit about it is it's not always a bad thing to contact them if you have questions.

Is that correct? In other words, if you think that you've made a mistake, you can go to them for potential assistance. Is that right?

That is correct. But you got to be careful, right? Because the IRS is the first one that's going to tell you. Listen, if you send us an email and we respond and it's wrong, we're not responsible. If you call us and we give you information over the phone and it's wrong, we're not responsible. If you read IRS Publication 590 and Publication 560, which is written for the consumer, and the information in there is wrong, we are not responsible. You only can rely on sources of information that is considered authoritative, right? Like if they send you a private letter ruling, IRS notice, IRS revenue procedures, et cetera. But my experience with the IRS has always been positive because I've had cases where clients have made mistakes. You reach out to the irs, but you got to make sure you go to the right channel.

Call them if you want, but whatever information they give you, verify that with your CPA and your attorney. Email them if you want. Whatever information they provide in the email, verify that with your CPA and your attorney. No, if you go through the proper channels on which you can rely on a response, like get an attorney or CPA and have them apply a proper letter ruling to say, listen, I missed my 6 day deadline. Can you give me an extension? You pay a fee for that and they'll respond specifically to you based on the regulations and the laws that apply to a rollover. I've had cases where people have missed their R and B deadlines. We contact the IRS and the IRS have given us a waiver. So my experience with them is often usually positive.

Gotcha. No, great. Well, I appreciate that. And really it's to. You don't know what you don't know. And it's not always a bad idea to branch out and ask. But as she says, you know, always verify probably beforehand with your CPA and attorney. Big beautiful bill what is a takeaway for? And I know that you could talk for hours on this and I've seen some of your presentations already.

What is one of the main takeaways on Big Beautiful Bill and how it can affect IRAs?

Well, I don't know if, if I should say fortunately or unfortunately, but that bill did not affect IRAs technically, but it did include Trump accounts. Right. And you know, when that bill was rolled out, there was a lot of negative things being said about the Trump account. But the more I look at it, the more I believe it's a positive thing because you cannot start funding your retirement account for a child until they're working. Right. Because they got to have eligible compensation. But this is one of the exceptions to that rule. You can start funding a retirement savings account for your child the minute they are born, effective 2026, because you can't do that before July 2026.

So under the Big Beautiful bill, it is saying when we look at the, when we look at the statistics today, many American adults, 40% actually, according to a recent Gallup poll, when you ask them, they tell you, I don't have anything saved for retirement. The Trump accounts under the Big Beautiful Bill gives you the opportunity to put your child in a position where they won't have that same answer that adults are having today. They'll be able to say, listen, I have something saved for retirement which started when I was born up until the age of 17. So I've gotten, you know, a little bit of a head start here. So that's one of the things that people want to look out for. And we're going to be talking a lot about that until it rolls out in July 2026.

Fantastic. Any anything for the kids on that? We do get a lot of parents and grandparents. I want to start an account for my grandson. I want to do something for my daughter. And we do have to have that talk that as understandable as it may be, a Roth, a tax free account is great for somebody who's starting out younger. But to Denise's point, people have to have earned tax wages to be able to make the contributions into the account. So it is going to be an interesting road to see how this transpires. Heading into the end of the year, one of the big accounts out there that we always see folks clamoring to get, they've probably said in January, hey, I'm going to start the year out right.

I'm going to go ahead and get this set up or right after April, I'm going to get it taken care of. Or maybe right after October. Is the small business owner someone who has has their own company with no full time employees. And it's the Solo 401K. And so they know that they need to get this set up now before the end of the year. So somebody's racing to get it done. They are the employer, they're going to be the employee and the matching employer of this account. What is one or two points that you can give to folks, those entrepreneurs of why this is such, why they call it the most powerful retirement vehicle out there, but something that they need to know before they get started with it.

Yeah. Before you get started, check to see what, what companies you have ownership in. Right. Because if I own two businesses, say I own this company and I own a garage, I gotta make sure I cover all employees of both businesses under the plan. If I own certain percentages, 100%, definitely for sure. So check for that. Because if you have employees, you can't do the solo 401k. But if you don't, if it's just you and your spouse, then yes, set up the account, put the spouse on the payroll and max out your contributions.

You can do up to $70,000 for, for 2025. Now you want to make sure that when you complete your adoption agreement, you make the right elections. Do you want traditional contributions? Do you want Roth contributions? You can do Solid deferral contribution, 23,500 for the year plus catch up contributions of at least 7,500 if you're at least age 50 by the end of the year. But you made an important point, Kyle, because the deadline to set up this plan is the tax filing due date plus extension of the business. Right. But a big component of a solo 401 is the salary deferral feature. And if you want to be able to make salary deferral contributions by the end of the year, then you got to set up the plan by the end of the year. If you're a sole proprietor, you want to make sure you have that election in place to make the salad deferral contributions by the end of the year.

So there are certain operational steps that must be put in place by the end of the year for you to benefit from solid deferral contributions for this year. But your employer contribution component, that's tax filing due date plus extension. And if that's all you plan to do for this year, then you do have more time.

Gotcha. Okay, thank you so much, Denise. Going into each year, you've always been so generous and good about because you get up every morning, you study this, and then also leading into the next year, you're, you're getting ready yourself. But you always keep us apprised with the the good to knows things to watch out for in fill in the blank year. Is it too early to ask for a teaser of what's coming in 2026? Any changes that you've seen, things for folks to know, contribution limits, for example, any of that yet? What can you share with us what's coming our way?

And it's not too early, but I want to quickly say as we're getting to the end of the year, don't forget your required minimum distributions because those typically have to be done by the end of the year. And if you just reach age 73 this year, then you have until as late as April 1st of next year to take this year's required minimum distribution. Of course, if you wait until next year, that means taking two because you got to take this year's and you got to take next year because all RMDs other than the first year RMD has to be taken by December 31st of the year for which they're due. And I like your point about new contribution limits. The IRS usually sends those out late October, early November. And that creates an opportunity for you now to look at what the new contribution limits are and decide how much you can contribute for the year. Right. I like to tell people, don't wait until the end of the year, don't wait until tax time.

Spread out your contributions throughout the year. It makes it feel more manageable. Right. And make your contributions part of your budget so you really know how much you can afford. Because we like to say max out your contribution. Max out your contribution. But is that for everyone? The question becomes whether you can afford afford it or not. Because you don't want to be maxing out your contributions only to find out that you got to use a credit card to pay those bills.

Right, right, right. Exactly. Exactly. Denise, thank you so much. It's always a pleasure and I'm glad we actually got to sit down today. This is actually a first for us where.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, absolutely. And I, I hope we can do it again. And no doubt that if anyone is listening out there today and if you're like me, I know that you learned something. So hopefully the next time that we have Denise back, we're going to see what else we can learn. So for everyone out there, thank you again, Denise, for, for joining us and for all of you who have taken time out of your day wherever and whenever you are, we thank you as well. It means a lot to us. We're very appreciative of of you whether you're a client of ours already. We also thank you for your business and if it is something that's on your mind that you are looking to get some of your questions answered and how you can start your self directed retirement account, you are always more than welcome.

Go onto our website. You can set up a consultation with me. I'll be more than happy to spend some time with you, answer any of your questions, and then also move forward with establishing your account. So once again, I'm Kyle Moody with the Business Development team here at American IRA and we're signing off again from another production of the IRA Cafe. Thanks everyone. See you soon.

American IRA llc, a North Carolina llc, acts as a third party Administrator for New Business Vision Trust Company, a state chartered South Dakota Trust Company. As a neutral, self directed IRA Administrator, American IRA does not recommend or endorse any investments, individuals or entities, including financial representatives, promoters or companies. American IRA and the IRA Cafe are not responsible for other statements, representations or agreements, nor do we evaluate the quality or profitability of any investment. American IRA does not endorse gifts Guests on the IRA Cafe Podcast Guest opinions are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of American ira, its subsidiaries, associates or custodian. Participation in the podcast is voluntary and no compensation is provided. American IRA is not a fiduciary and cannot offer financial advice. Please consult your CPA or another professional before making financial decisions.