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Defending Democracy: The People of Ukraine
Episode 2 • 10th February 2023 • Democracy! The Podcast • CEPPS Advisor Adrienne Ross, Fmr Deputy Asst Secretary Strategic Communications, US Dept of State, Journalist
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By definition, “democracy” thrives or dies according to the will of the people, and in Ukraine, it’s the people who have made all the difference.  In the second episode of this four-part miniseries, “Defending Democracy: The People of Ukraine,” we look at what Ukrainians have endured to maintain a modern, democratic society in the midst of Russia’s attacks.     

First, Adrienne talks to three co-chairs of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine’s Equal Opportunity Caucus who share their memories from the first days of Russia’s full-scale invasion, to the fight they've had keeping the lights on in parliament no matter what. These thoughtful “People’s Deputies” also detail the massive paradigm shift their country is experiencing as more than 50,000 women report for duty on Ukraine’s frontlines.

Plus, Oleksandr Syenkevych’s story sounds like the plot of a Hollywood action movie, but he is, in fact, the real-life, democratically elected mayor of the town nicknamed, “City of Heroes.” Together he and the citizens of Mykolaiv have survived some of the worst bombings of the war while stopping Russian Armed Forces from advancing along the Black Sea.  Meantime, across the country, Ukraine’s mayors are being hunted, targeted, disappeared, and murdered by Russian troops. In fact, the invaders have destroyed nearly everything in Mykolaiv except the people’s dedication to democracy and their will to prevail. 

Key Links

Follow CEPPS on Twitter and Instagram.

Democracy! The Podcast is hosted by CEPPS and Adrienne Ross with production assistance from Amy Radlinski.  

Featured guests in this episode: 

This podcast has been produced by the Consortium for Elections, and Political Process Strengthening through the Democratic Elections and Political Processes Cooperative Agreement and is made possible by the generous support of the American people through the United States Agency for International Development.

Opinions expressed here are those of the host and the guests and do not necessarily reflect the views of USAID or the US Government.  

Democracy! The Podcast is produced by Evo Terra and Sam Walker of  Simpler Media Productions.



This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy

Transcripts

Adrienne Ross:

Welcome to Democracy!

Adrienne Ross:

The Podcast that shines light on some of the darkest challenges facing the

Adrienne Ross:

fight for democracy around the globe.

Adrienne Ross:

Brought to you by the Consortium for Elections and Political Process

Adrienne Ross:

Strengthening (CEPPS), in partnership and funding from our friends at the

Adrienne Ross:

United States Agency for International Development (USAID) through the

Adrienne Ross:

Democratic Elections Political Processes Cooperative Agreement.

Adrienne Ross:

I'm your host, Adrienne Ross.

Adrienne Ross:

At the heart of any true democracy is, of course, the will of the people.

Adrienne Ross:

In Ukraine, when more than seventy years of Communism ended in 1991, it

Adrienne Ross:

was the will of the Ukrainian people that drove their nation towards greater

Adrienne Ross:

sovereignty, equality, and prosperity.

Adrienne Ross:

And yet, as you know, it's been a rocky road, three revolutions, Russian

Adrienne Ross:

aggression, and often endemic corrupt.

Adrienne Ross:

But through it all, Ukrainians have remained committed to strengthening the

Adrienne Ross:

core elements of their democracy, often partnering with CEPPS to get it done.

Adrienne Ross:

Today with help from the US, European Union member states, and NATO nations,

Adrienne Ross:

it's the Ukrainians again, fighting for freedom with an iron will.

Adrienne Ross:

In the second episode of this Defending Democracy series, "The People," we

Adrienne Ross:

head straight to Ukraine's front lines to check on the people of Mykolaiv.

Adrienne Ross:

In their town, Russians have weaponized electricity, water, even winter.

Adrienne Ross:

Yet somehow they've held off the invaders.

Adrienne Ross:

Plus, three co-chairs of Ukraine's Equal Opportunity Caucus join me to

Adrienne Ross:

explain how the war is dramatically challenging women's roles in Ukraine.

Adrienne Ross:

And, they'll reveal what they've been up against to keep the Verkhovna

Adrienne Ross:

Rada of Ukraine running in war time.

Adrienne Ross:

But first, more on the people.

Amy Radlinkski:

In peace, more than forty-four million people

Amy Radlinkski:

make their home in Ukraine.

Amy Radlinkski:

It's the world's 35th most populous nation in Europe's largest country after Russia,

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roughly the size of Texas in the U.S.

Amy Radlinkski:

But today, many Ukrainians have fled their hometowns, creating Europe's

Amy Radlinkski:

largest refugee crisis since World War II.

Amy Radlinkski:

The United Nations High Commissioner says that more than eight million

Amy Radlinkski:

refugees have registered across Europe after crossing into neighboring nations.

Amy Radlinkski:

More than 20,000 civilians have become casualties of the war, and more

Amy Radlinkski:

than 7,000 people have been killed.

Amy Radlinkski:

But OHCHR warns that the numbers are likely much higher with tens of millions

Amy Radlinkski:

of people in "potential danger of death."

Amy Radlinkski:

Meanwhile, USAID activated a disaster assistance response team to lead

Amy Radlinkski:

the US government's humanitarian response from Eastern Central Europe.

Amy Radlinkski:

To date, USAID has provided humanitarian relief to about seven

Amy Radlinkski:

million people inside Ukraine.

Amy Radlinkski:

For the most up-to-date numbers from the UN and USAID's response

Amy Radlinkski:

to the war, make sure to check out this episode's show notes.

Adrienne Ross:

In a country where the national anthem begins, "The glory and

Adrienne Ross:

freedom of Ukraine have not yet perished," no one should underestimate the people.

Adrienne Ross:

While these next three women wear many hats, they are,

Adrienne Ross:

above all, Ukrainian patriots.

Adrienne Ross:

Together they serve as three of five co-chairs for the Equal Opportunity

Adrienne Ross:

Caucus in the Verkhovna Rada.

Adrienne Ross:

As you hear them speak, I bet you'll agree they live up to their

Adrienne Ross:

title, "the People's Deputies."

Adrienne Ross:

Their caucus has tackled everything from gender quota to making sure

Adrienne Ross:

Ukrainian women can get a proper military uniform for winter.

Adrienne Ross:

With help from the National Democratic Institute and USAID funding through

Adrienne Ross:

CEPPS, the caucus has achieved some big wins since its start in 2011.

Adrienne Ross:

Ahead, Mariia Ionova shares some incredible sacrifices she has

Adrienne Ross:

made since the war broke out.

Adrienne Ross:

Then, you'll hear from her colleague, Maryna Bardina, who

Adrienne Ross:

talks about Ukraine's secret weapon.

Adrienne Ross:

Well, that maybe isn't so secret.

Adrienne Ross:

But first, Inna Sovsun tells you why the national anthem makes

Adrienne Ross:

her cry every time she hears it.

Inna Sovsun:

You know, the first, uh, almost half a year I was,

Inna Sovsun:

uh, separated from my son who is turning, um, ten in a couple of days.

Inna Sovsun:

He was living in the Western Ukraine with some relatives.

Inna Sovsun:

And in order to see my son, I had to travel ten hours by train.

Inna Sovsun:

So I couldn't see him very often.

Inna Sovsun:

And then, of course, well, my boyfriend left for the army on the very first

Inna Sovsun:

day he got mobilized, but I knew he wouldn't guess that it would happen.

Inna Sovsun:

So I have to wake up every single morning and text him to find out if he's uh, okay.

Inna Sovsun:

And in that sense, meaning if he's alive.

Inna Sovsun:

What is common for all of us is that our live states changed

Inna Sovsun:

dramatically on February 24th.

Mariia Inova:

I remember the first time when I left Ukraine, and I just was

Mariia Inova:

really shocked with this situation.

Mariia Inova:

I understood that it's better for me to stay in Ukraine and to, like, do not

Mariia Inova:

leave it while a full-scale invasion.

Mariia Inova:

And we left for participation in a base session in the parliamentary

Mariia Inova:

assembly of, uh, council of Europe.

Mariia Inova:

I saw how people abroad live their normal life at time when, uh, my towns

Mariia Inova:

were being bombed by Russian missiles.

Mariia Inova:

I was shocked.

Mariia Inova:

I understood that this is absolutely another reality abroad.

Mariia Inova:

I just remember how much we were, like, united, you know.

Mariia Inova:

And uh, just since that period I tried to stay in Ukraine and not to leave.

Mariia Inova:

But, of course, I understand that it's important for us to

Mariia Inova:

travel now to talk about Ukraine.

Mariia Inova:

But, uh, psychologically it's, uh, too different to be somewhere

Mariia Inova:

abroad at time of war here.

Adrienne Ross:

Ukraine's parliament has continued to operate in this

Adrienne Ross:

crisis situation in this war with Russia on the ground in your country.

Adrienne Ross:

What has that been like and why has that been so important to you?

Inna Sovsun:

The primary thing there is legislation that need to be

Inna Sovsun:

passed because martial law and all of that, and we need to react to the

Inna Sovsun:

situation and so on and so forth.

Inna Sovsun:

And that, of course, is the case.

Inna Sovsun:

But I think at least the first two or three months of the war, the

Inna Sovsun:

most important thing we did was actually stayed in Ukraine, gathered

Inna Sovsun:

together, showed that we are all still here, that we are here with our

Inna Sovsun:

people, and that will stay united.

Inna Sovsun:

The moment we open every single session by singing an anthem without any

Inna Sovsun:

music, just people singing it, still breaks my heart every single time.

Inna Sovsun:

And, and I think that this shows solidarity and this shows strength,

Inna Sovsun:

and uh, this shows to everybody back in Ukraine, but also abroad that we are

Inna Sovsun:

not giving up and we are staying here.

Mariia Inova:

Of course, we have never thought that we even can leave

Mariia Inova:

our country in such a horrible time.

Mariia Inova:

And, of course, we have left, for example, also at the beginning of March

Mariia Inova:

because we have been official visit to USA and Canada, and all of us, we

Mariia Inova:

are involved in, uh, a very active participation parliamentary diplomacy.

Adrienne Ross:

Can you talk a little bit about the Equal Opportunities

Adrienne Ross:

Caucus and how it's been, in fact, a force for unification in Ukraine?

Mariia Inova:

I can share the story of creation of the Equal

Mariia Inova:

Opportunities Caucus, and, of course, it's also thankful it's National

Mariia Inova:

Democratic Institute, for example.

Mariia Inova:

We has the privilege of collaborating with NDI public starting from 2003.

Mariia Inova:

And uh, of course, in parliament we have been success because the goal was to

Mariia Inova:

unite around principles and values, and, of course, to have common agenda on draft

Mariia Inova:

wars where we can succeed in changing legislation on equal opportunities between

Mariia Inova:

men and women in a different sphere.

Mariia Inova:

I can say that we can be very capable now, if I can say, because of course

Mariia Inova:

the war has changed our agenda.

Adrienne Ross:

I understand that the caucus has allowed you to work closer

Adrienne Ross:

together than you might normally.

Adrienne Ross:

Is that true?

Maryna Bardina:

I just remember, uh, how we started and just Mariia,

Maryna Bardina:

who, uh, was also in previous convocation in Ukrainian parliament.

Maryna Bardina:

She just asked me for a meeting to discuss the future of equal opportunities,

Maryna Bardina:

you know, be- before our convocation.

Maryna Bardina:

And I, I didn't hesitate.

Maryna Bardina:

I'm sure that, uh, we will create this Equal Opportunities

Maryna Bardina:

Caucus in our parliament also.

Maryna Bardina:

I'm really happy to have, uh, such cooperation with women

Maryna Bardina:

in Ukrainian parliament.

Maryna Bardina:

We, we did, uh, much work, you know?

Maryna Bardina:

We voted for electoral gender quota.

Maryna Bardina:

So, next parliament has to present or to consist of, uh, 30% of women

Maryna Bardina:

from like general size of parliament.

Maryna Bardina:

30% of women has to be in the next parliament due to this new

Maryna Bardina:

electoral, uh, gender quota.

Maryna Bardina:

Then, we ratified Istanbul Convention, you know.

Maryna Bardina:

Uh, when we just launch, uh, the paternity, uh, leaves in Ukraine,

Maryna Bardina:

and now we are actively working, uh, on, uh, sexual violence now by

Maryna Bardina:

Russian soldiers in Ukraine, you know.

Maryna Bardina:

And I just really, really happy to understand that all branches

Maryna Bardina:

of power in Ukraine - government, parliament, presidential office - they

Maryna Bardina:

are all involved in gender policy.

Maryna Bardina:

Our president even uses, uh, gender sensitive language in his everyday,

Maryna Bardina:

uh, statements, in his everyday reports to Ukrainian citizens.

Maryna Bardina:

We are now advocating with our caucus, uh, changes in Ukrainian army to

Maryna Bardina:

support women to give them, uh, more possibilities and opportunities in army.

Adrienne Ross:

What is it like to have so many women serving in the

Adrienne Ross:

front lines right now in Ukraine?

Adrienne Ross:

Inna?

Inna Sovsun:

On the one hand, indeed, what we're seeing is 50,000

Inna Sovsun:

women serving in the battlefront.

Inna Sovsun:

So not just in the army, you know, doing logistics or whatever, but

Inna Sovsun:

literally in the battlefront.

Inna Sovsun:

It's a lot.

Inna Sovsun:

We used to have this old Soviet tradition of celebrating the, the Men's

Inna Sovsun:

Day, which was a military day, and then there was the Women's Day, which

Inna Sovsun:

was March 8th, if you can imagine.

Inna Sovsun:

And now it's not the same.

Inna Sovsun:

The people who are in the military and men that, that's not the same idea anymore.

Inna Sovsun:

We don't say, "defender of Ukraine" anymore, implying

Inna Sovsun:

that it necessarily is a man.

Inna Sovsun:

So on the one hand, I do think that there is this challenge to gender stereotypes

Inna Sovsun:

of men necessarily being, you know, big, strong defenders, carrying guns, and

Inna Sovsun:

women being weak and, you know, you know, needed protection and so on and so forth.

Inna Sovsun:

That's also part of the, of the complicated reality of the day is that,

Inna Sovsun:

of course, many women actually fell strongly back into very stereotypical role

Inna Sovsun:

of caregivers because they had to leave to, to take their families away, to take

Inna Sovsun:

their kids, their elderly parents, uh, uh, whoever else, and actually fall back

Inna Sovsun:

into very stereotypical female roles.

Inna Sovsun:

The military LGBTQ people are also getting prominence, and, and the fact

Inna Sovsun:

that they exist also gave rise to a discussion of potentially legalizing

Inna Sovsun:

same sex marriages in Ukraine.

Inna Sovsun:

I don't think we are, we are there yet when we're close to that discussion.

Inna Sovsun:

But I think that the fact that anyone who's in the military, that is

Inna Sovsun:

legitimation for, you know, speaking about the rights of this or that group of people

Inna Sovsun:

in the current situation in Ukraine.

Mariia Inova:

Let's be frank, um, it is the Ukrainian woman really who

Mariia Inova:

is, uh, suffering the most and really bearing the heavy burden of this war

Mariia Inova:

of conquest, uh, war of aggression.

Mariia Inova:

Because as, um, my colleagues has mentioned, women suffers

Mariia Inova:

when she's killed as a soldier.

Mariia Inova:

Also, women suffers, uh, when, uh, her husband or father or, uh, some brother

Mariia Inova:

is killed, uh, as she has also has to take care of the family and kids, elders.

Mariia Inova:

Also, women, women, uh, suffers, uh, when the hospitals and schools

Mariia Inova:

has been damaged and destroyed, and they're losing also their job and

Mariia Inova:

prospective, uh, prospects of the future.

Mariia Inova:

So we see that, really, they have to be protected.

Mariia Inova:

Active women, women's organization, uh, they turn to

Mariia Inova:

be humanitarian organizations.

Mariia Inova:

And they also coordinated, really, the most urgent issues of evacuation,

Mariia Inova:

of humanitarian corridors, of humanitarian need for women like

Mariia Inova:

who were forced, for example, to flee, uh, the, um, towns and cities.

Mariia Inova:

And also like the deadly danger of what was following them.

Mariia Inova:

You know, it's, uh, so asset for our country, the impact and the success story

Mariia Inova:

of our women who has given this very quick respond to very urgent needs, more

Mariia Inova:

even than international organizations.

Mariia Inova:

Because if you will ask us about International Red Cross or other

Mariia Inova:

UN agencies, unfortunately, they were absolutely not

Mariia Inova:

capable at the very beginning.

Mariia Inova:

We see how a lot of women and men can do together, and that is why I'd

Mariia Inova:

like to underline that our caucus is really an example of unity, which we

Mariia Inova:

need also in a global way, unity with Ukraine, and, of course, our main

Mariia Inova:

weapon is unity inside our society.

Mariia Inova:

And it's also one of the asset which we can share with all the world.

Adrienne Ross:

I wanna go back to the Istanbul Convention because

Adrienne Ross:

I think this is really crucial.

Adrienne Ross:

The landmark European treaty to end violence against women that you all

Adrienne Ross:

ratified, I believe, this summer.

Adrienne Ross:

Mariia, do you wanna explain why being part of the Istanbul Convention in the

Adrienne Ross:

environment that we're in with Russia on the ground is so important right now?

Mariia Inova:

I suppose that after our ability to ratify Istanbul

Mariia Inova:

Convention, everything is possible in Ukraine concerning human rights.

Inna Sovsun:

War, uh, military, uh, actions, they always lead to

Inna Sovsun:

increased, uh, violence, right?

Inna Sovsun:

We have seen the acts of extreme violence against, uh, women

Inna Sovsun:

of the occupied territories.

Inna Sovsun:

Actually, uh, we now, uh, started a parliamentary commission on

Inna Sovsun:

investigating the, the sexual crimes committed on the occupied territory,

Inna Sovsun:

chaired by Maryna over here.

Inna Sovsun:

But the sad truth is also that the home violence is increasing because

Inna Sovsun:

of the situation people are in and because people coming back from the

Inna Sovsun:

war, the veterans, they will also need lots of support systems in order to

Inna Sovsun:

get reintegrated into after-war lives.

Inna Sovsun:

And, unfortunately, people coming back from war do suffer from

Inna Sovsun:

different disorders and then it's very difficult for them to

Inna Sovsun:

reintegrate into their family lives.

Inna Sovsun:

And the third thing I will point out is that it was symbolically important.

Inna Sovsun:

It was important to show that this is a direction we are moving into.

Inna Sovsun:

Cuz you know, uh, the head of the Russian Orthodox Church, uh, Patriarch Kirill,

Inna Sovsun:

he did say that this war started because they, whoever they are, uh, didn't

Inna Sovsun:

want to see gay parades in Donetsk.

Inna Sovsun:

You know, this is the, the civilization we are fighting against, and that is why,

Inna Sovsun:

um, you know, passing, uh, adopting the Istanbul Convention was, was so important

Inna Sovsun:

to show this is where we are moving into.

Inna Sovsun:

Regardless of some conservative elements in Ukrainian society, this

Inna Sovsun:

is the decision that we have taken as members of parliament representing

Inna Sovsun:

absolute majority of the population.

Inna Sovsun:

This is our civilization of choice.

Mariia Inova:

But also what is very important, a lot of war crimes as a

Mariia Inova:

sexual violation in our countries, especially in occupied territories.

Mariia Inova:

And that is why this ratification is so important to protect and to punish

Mariia Inova:

that people who has been provide this war crime as sexual violations.

Maryna Bardina:

This is extremely important for us now to support

Maryna Bardina:

survivors of sexual violence committed by Russian soldiers.

Maryna Bardina:

We just have numerous cases when such violence was committed,

Maryna Bardina:

uh, towards just not only women, but children, men, uh, as well.

Inna Sovsun:

There is, uh, nothing more you can do than, uh, to help

Inna Sovsun:

families, uh, take care of their kids.

Inna Sovsun:

And for that we need to build the bomb shelters in the kindergartens and schools.

Inna Sovsun:

And that sounds like something very far away from, from gender policy.

Inna Sovsun:

But trust me, if you have a small kid and you cannot send him or her

Inna Sovsun:

to the kindergarten cuz there is no bomb shelter, then you cannot talk

Inna Sovsun:

about any gender equality whatsoever.

Inna Sovsun:

And I'm sure that if we have that for all our schools, many more women will

Inna Sovsun:

come back to Ukraine, many more families will have much less problems there.

Inna Sovsun:

The women there will be able to get back to work and so on and so forth.

Mariia Inova:

And this is like our geographical problem, I should say,

Mariia Inova:

because uh, we have neighbor who doesn't want us to exist as a state, as nation,

Mariia Inova:

as a culture, as history, et cetera.

Mariia Inova:

Yet, at the same time we are like modern, independent country.

Mariia Inova:

You know, we just really fighting, uh, for democracy, for freedom, and for our,

Mariia Inova:

like, basic right to exist, you know?

Mariia Inova:

And I am really appreciate how much, uh, the world is united

Mariia Inova:

and I hope that we will able to celebrate our victory together.

Adrienne Ross:

Maryna, Mariia, Inna, thank you so much for joining us today.

Adrienne Ross:

Thank you for your bravery and your courage.

Adrienne Ross:

Ukraine's Coastal city of Mykolaiv has been on the frontline since the

Adrienne Ross:

earliest days of the Russian invasion.

Adrienne Ross:

And because of their strategic location along the Black Sea, Mykolaiv has endured

Adrienne Ross:

some of the worst attacks of this war with Russian forces often as close as ten or

Adrienne Ross:

fifteen miles from the center of town.

Adrienne Ross:

Last April, they blew up their water supply.

Adrienne Ross:

All of Mykolaiv's taxis, buses, schools, and other city infrastructure have

Adrienne Ross:

been decimated by Russian missiles.

Adrienne Ross:

And while that's been happening, across the country Ukraine's mayors

Adrienne Ross:

have been targeted, threatened, disappeared, and murdered.

Adrienne Ross:

Despite all of this, Mykolaiv is standing like a rock.

Adrienne Ross:

From somewhere deep in the city, the honorable, and very brave, Mayor

Adrienne Ross:

of Mykolaiv, Oleksandr Syenkevych, finds a quiet moment to share how

Adrienne Ross:

the Russians just don't get it.

Adrienne Ross:

And the love for his country, his dedication to democracy, even

Adrienne Ross:

his humor, can't be destroyed.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

They're trying to kill as many Ukrainians as they can.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

We have 156 person died because of bombardments and, uh, about

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

eight, 800 people heavily injured.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

For sure we don't count those people who were lightly injured, and for

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

sure this number is, it's, it's a big number actually, but could be bigger

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

because a lot of people left the city.

Adrienne Ross:

You have endured some of the most relentless bombing in this war.

Adrienne Ross:

I understand the humanitarian crisis in Mykolaiv remains critical

Adrienne Ross:

and that your needs are immense.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Uh, we have a lot of damages, broken schools, hospitals,

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

and many places, which is not in military infrastructure like it was

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

announced by Putin that he's planning to demilitarize and de-nazify our country.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Mykolaiv is a city where, before the war, we had half a million people.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

I could say that about 75, 80% of them are using Russian as their primary language.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

So I don't know who, who he decided to de-nazify and to protect from Ukrainians.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

From the first day we started to build, uh, fortifications.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

So a lot of people started to close the different, uh, ways to enter,

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

uh, the city for Russian troops.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Uh, they started to dig trenches.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

They started to bring food and equipment for army.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

We have a lot of volunteers who started to help army without ability to serve

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

in the army, and we have another people who took a weapon in their

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

arms and started to defend the city.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

What Russia is trying to do in Ukraine is genocide.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

For example, on uh, April 12th, they, uh, bombarded our pipes, which provide

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

city, provide the city with a fresh water.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Our water source is created seventy-three kilometers far

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

from Mykolaiv and near Kherson.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

So what they done, they put explosive under those pipes

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

and they destroyed pipes.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Blew the two pipes with the length of seventy-three kilometers

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

and diameter of, uh, 1.4 meter.

Adrienne Ross:

It was very deliberate what they did with the water.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

They wanted just to leave the city without water.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

We started to dig boreholes and got some water and distributed it using

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

water trucks everywhere in the city.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

And, uh, we also got a lot of help of our partners who provided

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

us with cleaning osmos systems.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Also, US AID, uh, helped us in that matter.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

And, um, in months, we built another pipeline and we are using, uh, water

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

from South Bug River, but you can't drink it and you can't prepare food with it.

Adrienne Ross:

So you're hanging on.

Adrienne Ross:

How are the spirits of your citizens, and how are you feeling?

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

We feel strong, you know, because we fought with, uh,

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Russians, and we were standing strong and our troops defended the city of Mykolaiv

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

and pushed the enemy back to Russia.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Our city got the title of a "City Hero."

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

But we call us not the, uh, city hero, but we call us the "City of Heroes."

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

So people really motivated, they really know what, uh, they are fighting for.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

We know what we are staying for.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Uh, we do this for our families, for our lands, for our

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

independence, and for our freedom.

Adrienne Ross:

President Putin is hoping to divide Ukrainians against one another

Adrienne Ross:

by making you as miserable as possible.

Adrienne Ross:

It sounds to me like it's not working.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

I can tell you that everything that he says or thinks and

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

then says, you need to read it vice versa.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

I mean, when he says, "We want to save Ukrainians from the government," that

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

means, "We want to kill Ukrainians."

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

When he says, "We want to demilitarize," he says, "We want to have a war."

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

And we understand that it's totally untrue that they speak and they

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

tell to all the world that the black is white and the white is black.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Moreover, it is an intellectual nation.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

So we are analyzing what is happening.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

We changing our presidents.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

We do revolutions.

Adrienne Ross:

How difficult has this war made your job as mayor?

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

People ask me, how do you feel?

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

What do you think?

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

I usually answer that I don't have too much time to think.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

We reacted on all the problems in the moment because we don't have too

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

much time to think because we had a lot of military problems, problems

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

with water, problems with heating, problem with gas, electricity.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

But these problems, we were familiar before the war.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Our work became harder because you can't plan.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

We put some deadlines, like, we put, we put a deadline that the

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

war will end in April, so we do everything to end this war in April.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Then, if we have problems, we will change that deadline.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

The war started on February 24th, and on February 26th, we left

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

the building of the city council.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

And we were right because on March 29th they attacked the building of regional

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

council and that building was ruined and buried there thirty-eight people.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Meanwhile, our building was empty.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

We used a walkie-talkie, a mobile walkie-talkie is a lot to

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

create a communication service between our city services.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

And all our services were on these walkie-talkie, and I also want to use

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

it afterward because it extremely fast way to contact and to connect with

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

people in different direction - water, gas, heating, everyone is online

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

and everyone answers in minutes.

Adrienne Ross:

Mayor Syenkevych, some of the mayors in Ukraine have been targeted.

Adrienne Ross:

They've been disappeared.

Adrienne Ross:

They've even been murdered by Russian soldiers.

Adrienne Ross:

So you're, you're very humble in how you describe your office, but it's

Adrienne Ross:

very serious and important right now.

Adrienne Ross:

Can you talk a little bit about what it's like to lead Mykolaiv

Adrienne Ross:

at such a dangerous time?

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

I usually change places where I am because

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Russians still think that if they kill the mayor, the city will give up.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

And for sure they don't know how democracy work.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

People will elect a new mayor.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

And I can't say, like, please, people give up, and all will give up.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

And I don't want to do it.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

That's why from the first day of war we changed the place

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

to live and I was, uh, armed.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

I started to learn how to shoot and took my automatic rifle, Kalashnikov.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Now I'm, I have a gun to protect myself.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

My family is out of Ukraine and for security reasons.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

And now I have all the space to work and to provide city with my services.

Adrienne Ross:

What has the war done to the city's economy, especially your port,

Adrienne Ross:

the grain industry, and your shipyards?

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Nothing works now.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

I mean, our port infrastructure is not working because of we are not able

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

to go out to the sea because there is a peninsula occupied by Russians.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

They can enter that peninsula from Kherson area and we can't get there.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

And from that peninsula they're able to attack, uh, the corridor

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

from the city of Mykolaiv, the river, where river connects the sea.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

And, uh, it's very dangerous for us to go there.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Before our independence, we were well known in the world, the city

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

where all the aircraft carriers of Soviet Union were built.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

China has two aircraft carriers.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

One of them is, is also built in city of Mykolaiv.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

The navy ship, Muskwa, that we ruined, uh, in the beginning of the war, the

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Black Sea Russian fleet, uh, leader was also built in the city of Mykolaiv.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

But then, after the ruin of Soviet Union, Russian oligarchs bought, privatized those

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

ship building plants and bankrupted them.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Uh, now in thirty years after we got independence, we

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

understand why they made so.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

They just want to kill the ship building in Ukraine.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

A lot of people who were kind of, you know, loved Russia or had some

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

good feelings about it now hate it because all the city was bombarded.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Almost everyone has relatives who was injured or killed in the city of Mykolaiv.

Adrienne Ross:

They've really destroyed the city.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Right.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

But we have a plan to renovate it by the plan built back better.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

So I think it's chance for Mykolaiv to become better, even

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

if it's in such bad circumstances.

Adrienne Ross:

Part of your vision when you came to this office before the war

Adrienne Ross:

was to, to restore Mykolaiv as a rebirth city and really bring back the old days to

Adrienne Ross:

Ukraine and, and revitalize the country.

Adrienne Ross:

Is your wish still the same?

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

It's even bigger cause who will do it instead of us?

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

No one.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

We need to do it.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

When someone ask me, do you think that Ukrainian troops are

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

slow in counteroffensive on, let's say, in their actions?

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

I usually say it's okay if we are slow, but we'll lose not many people because

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

our partners can help us with ammunition, with, uh, vehicles, with tank, with

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

everything, but no one will fight for us and for our country except Ukrainians.

Adrienne Ross:

What is your greatest need right now?

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

We still have problem with drinking water.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

I think main thing, um, vehicles, public transportation, because

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

a lot of our buses, trolleybuses were destroyed or damaged.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

And a lot of municipal vehicles that work with the roads, with the garbage

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

collection, were damaged or were taken by military people with soldiers because

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

they need it also on, on the frontline.

Adrienne Ross:

What is your greatest source of hope right now?

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Uh, to be honest, my family inspires me.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

As I told you before, that we, all Ukrainians are inspired by Ukrainians

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

because we know what we are fighting for.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

We want our country to be peaceful and our families to come back in our

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

cities and to be together with us.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

But Ukrainians want to work, want to earn money, and want to come back.

Adrienne Ross:

People love to be Ukrainian.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Sure, right.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Because we were born Ukrainians, you know?

Adrienne Ross:

Are you concerned at all about winter?

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

We prepared city for the winter, starting from March last year.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

We do everything to trying to think forward, to, um, prepare all the necessary

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

services like heating boiler house.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

We repaired them.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

We covered them with different fortifications.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

We bought an additional mobile boiler house to switch it on in case of ruins of

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

our boiler houses, uh, like a temporary.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

And we also, uh, in a very tight connection with the Denmark government

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

who, uh, helping us, and they also provide us with pipes, with different techniques,

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

with, uh, building materials, which helped us to close at least all the windows.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

We closed windows now, not with the glass because of bombardments.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

We closed them with the plywood.

Adrienne Ross:

It sounds like you're getting smarter and

Adrienne Ross:

smarter as this war goes on.

Adrienne Ross:

At least adapting better in your city.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Right.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Everything that don't kill us make us stronger, you know?

Adrienne Ross:

I understand Mykolaiv's theater recently

Adrienne Ross:

opened to its 100th season.

Adrienne Ross:

Have you been there?

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

It was in the bomb shelter, you know.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

It was not grand opening, but uh, they worked all the war.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

They helped, uh, some of actors worked as volunteers.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Several still serve in army.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Uh, we have some underground places where rock groups play their music.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

So, life exists even under bombardments because soldiers and

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

people need to be inspired and remember what they're fighting for.

Adrienne Ross:

If there was one thing you could tell everybody about

Adrienne Ross:

Mykolaiv and, and the situation that you're all in, what would that be?

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Mykolaiv is the city of big future.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

So for sure you are welcome to Mykolaiv after the war because

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

it's definitely City of Heroes.

Adrienne Ross:

Mayor Syenkevych, we just thank you so much for

Adrienne Ross:

your time from the front lines, from taking away from your city.

Adrienne Ross:

We're grateful that you were able to talk to us today.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Thank you for your interest to our city and

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

hope to see you after the war.

Adrienne Ross:

The mayor tells me, for now, Mykolaiv is working around two types

of blackouts:

the first, an emergency outage, can come at any time; the second,

of blackouts:

scheduled blackout, gives the city four hours of light and two hours of darkness.

of blackouts:

Mayor Syenkevych says the predictability keeps the outages

of blackouts:

from becoming too disruptive.

of blackouts:

And as soon as there's a change, the city makes an announcement and

of blackouts:

citizens plan for a new schedule.

of blackouts:

On the next episode, amid a dire energy situation, kamikaze drone attacks, and

of blackouts:

blackouts, the honorable mayor of Kyiv, Vitali Klitschko, returns to the podcast.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

"Kyiv is capital of Ukraine.

Oleksandr Syenkevych:

Kyiv was and still target of, of Russians."

Adrienne Ross:

You'll hear the former world heavyweight boxing

Adrienne Ross:

champ share an unfiltered look at the battle for his hometown.

Adrienne Ross:

That's ahead as Defending Ukraine continues.

Adrienne Ross:

Democracy!

Adrienne Ross:

The Podcast is brought to you by the Consortium for Elections and Political

Adrienne Ross:

Process Strengthening through the Democratic Elections Political Processes

Adrienne Ross:

Cooperative Agreement, and is made possible by the generous support of the

Adrienne Ross:

American people through the United States Agency for International Development.

Adrienne Ross:

Opinions expressed here are those of the hosts and the guests, and do

Adrienne Ross:

not necessarily reflect the views of USAID or the United States Government.

Adrienne Ross:

This podcast is produced by Evo Terra and Sam Walker of Simpler Media Productions.

Adrienne Ross:

For more information on Democracy!

Adrienne Ross:

The Podcast and to access the complete archives, please visit CEPPS.org/podcast.

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