John welcomes an internationally-known shamanic practitioner and teacher, Dory Cote, to discuss living shamanically. How do the tools and understanding of shamans relate to us in this modern world.

John and Dory talk about what shamanism is - how it is not a religion, has no dogma, and no leaders. But there is a unifying set of beliefs that come from shamanic practice - animism, for instance. Spirits are all around us.

They also discuss how shamans live integrally, with the knowledge gained from being in a relationship with the spirit world, and from the practice of shamanic journeying.

Announcer 0:29

Hello, and welcome to speaking spirit where we talk about all things spiritual. Your host, john Moore is a shamanic practitioner and spiritual teacher. And now here's john.

John Moore 0:48

Hello, everybody. Um,

I always have the urge to say good morning. And of course I never realize I don't. It's not that I don't think about. I really I do realize that you can be at any time of day listening to this podcast, but I will wish you a good morning or good day, no matter where you are in the world.

Today I have a I'm very excited about today's podcast guest. I will. I will introduce her to you in a second and we're going to talk about shamanism and shamanism as a lifelong practice and what that means and what's required and all that sort of stuff and who knows where the conversation will go. So my guest this morning is Dory Cote. And Dory is a nationally known I would probably say internationally known shamanic practitioner and teacher who brings passion and creativity to her teaching and healing, creating a safe, sacred and affirming place for students and clients. For over 25 years Dory, Cody has offered shamanic healings ceremonies,

Dory Cote 2:39

Well, I spy pleasure to be here with you and to offer what I can to your listening audience. And I, as you know, because I've said it to you personally many times I think you're an absolutely fabulous shamanic practitioner and teacher and it's my honor to be here to to have this chat. Well, gosh, thank

John Moore 3:05

you. Thank you so much for that. Um, we're gonna so as I said, we're going to talk what we're going to talk about shamanism today. And that's the thing obviously, that we have in common and talk about it really as as a lifelong practice. So I guess from my perspective, you know, shamanism is my is my path is my you know, spiritual path that found me and, you know, I'm I'm trying to live this shamanic life as best I can. But our you know, our listeners and and by the way, last I checked, we have listeners from 30 different countries. So that's pretty exciting to me. So we're talking to people all over the world, from India and Nepal, to you know, Australia and Europe and of course, the United States and Canada. Um, so people have different sort of ideas and shamanism has become a little bit of a buzzword. But if I were to ask you just to sort of make it clear for the listeners, when we use the word shamanism, what are I realized this is a really topic, what are we talking about? Like what's How would you define shamanism to somebody who had no idea or might have heard of it, but don't don't really understand what what shamanism is? Sure.

Dory Cote 4:28

Well, first of all, it's not a religion. It's a spiritual practice. It's available and accessible to anybody, regardless of their cultural or religious background, understandings, feelings.

History. It is a path of direct revelation. In other words, there are no there's no hierarchy within the public. Practice of shamanism there's no guru, there's no Master, there's no dogma, there's actually pretty much not even any specific teaching stat, one must follow to be in the practice of shamanism. There are, you know, there are definitely understandings and some basic tenets, you know, like being loving, compassionate, having reverence for all of life understanding that because there is no hierarchy in our understanding of spiritual dimensions, then we honor all beings, regardless of whether it's an ant or an elephant or a bird, a human, a tree, a Buttercup, all beings are equal in the eyes of the shamanic practitioner. So for someone to practice shamanism, I would say really, the only requirement is for that person to step into with time, maybe not necessarily the first day they take a shamanic journey workshop, but with time to step into the reverence for the life of all beings.

John Moore 6:31

Yeah, and I think I think you touched on something. Something important that that, you know, you know, about sort of the it's sort of hard to put shamanism in a box, right. And as you said, it's it's not there's not a specific dogma or there's, you know, there's not there's not a Bible, there's not an organization, there's no priest or Pope or guru or what have you. Um, but I think it's fair to say that she demonic, the shamanic worldview does embrace the idea of animism. Right? Yes, is the idea that everything had everything has a spirit? And yes, and as you spoke to the, the, you know, we approach beings with reverence and without hierarchy, we're, you know, equal to the trees and the grass and the rivers and the lakes and the birds and the Chipmunks. The chipmunks are eating peanuts off my porch this morning. So yeah, I mean, I think, you know, it's probably fair to say that to follow a shamanic path, one would have to at least accept the concept of animism. From a belief standpoint, do you think that Do you think that's fair?

Dory Cote 7:56

Yes, and it is fair, and it's true. And yet, you know, when people first begin to learn the practice of shamanism, and are curious, they may not embrace that at the outset. But as any person steps into the practice of shamanism by learning how to what we call a journey to the spirits of all beings, like the tree has a spirit that ant I was talking about has a spirit, once they embrace that understanding and become introduced to that concept of animism of there being no separation between me as a human and this beautiful, huge pine tree that I'm looking at right outside my window. Here we are one. Once people embrace that and understand that they as practitioners have the capacity to communicate and be in harmony, in a spirit of reciprocity, with the spirit of all beings that they are truly standing in the shoes of someone who is practicing shamanism actively. And then of course, there are degrees of practice, one, one first learns how to do a shamanic journey. And by the way, for the listeners, what that means is that the person who practices shamanism accesses other dimensions of reality beyond this space that we live in as embodied beings and through the sound of repetitive rhythms us you know, whether they're drums or Or rattles or, you know, didgeridoos, or bells or any other sounds, this particular rhythm that creates a cohesive connection between the heart of the practitioner and the heart of the earth that allows the practitioner or the person who is doing a journey to sink into the capacity to allow their not just their imagination, but a part of their soul self, to practice to leave the dimension of the embodied, to visit these other realms where spirits, speak with them, bless them, play with them, and engage with them in a harmonious sometimes teachings, sometimes healing kind of relationship. So when somebody first learns how to journey and they encounter this magnificent beauty, which is astonishing, like nine out of 10, people who learn how to journey are in absolute awe after their first weekend class, or even in a day, at what they are able to experience. You and I john just recently witnessed that as you were teaching an introductory workshop with some of your colleagues. And I forget how many students were there, but I think they were about 17 or 18. And, you know, from the first hour of the class to the end of the class several hours later, all of them I believe, had stepped into the shoes of all my right. This is real. Yeah, I'm not I'm not making this up. There really is, you know, another dimension where I can access spirits, benevolent, loving, compassionate spirits, who will engage with me, and help me with my own personal problems, my own, in, you know, my own questions from everything to you know, should I move to Denver or not? You know, should I get that divorce, you know, all those kinds of questions and issues and wisdom that is available to all of us. And

I know I've sort of gone off on a little wrap here, but I you know, as you know, I am very passionate about the practice of shamanism and all that. It has offered me personally in terms of my own development as a human being and a compassionate person. And I've had the privilege of teaching many, you know, hundreds of students who I get to watch then teaching others and, you know, that's that's how the practice of shamanism spreads. It's not that you know, there's anybody out on the street passing out leaflets saying, Yeah, come, right, come do a shamanic journey. It's because we, as practitioners love this work so much and love the experiences of expansion and beauty and and the healing that we're able to convey to others, whether human animal plant or elemental beings, that when I say this is a lifelong practice, what almost always happens with people is once they really fully immerse themselves into this practice. There's like no backing away. Right? It's like, like, this is it, this is my life path. This is it becomes not something you do, but it becomes who you are.

Yes, yeah. I have found that as well. And it's, it's interesting that you you touched on something that that really jumped out at me like you were talking about it. exploring all of this beauty. And, you know, when I look out, we both live in the northeast, and it's, you know, there is so much natural beauty around us. But the practice of shamanism has opened my eyes to beauty that's even beyond that, even beyond what's, you know, the, what I can perceive with my 3d senses, that there's a whole other level there. And then there's a whole range. You know, I don't know if we know if they're infinite, but a whole range of worlds and spaces that are just as beautiful and justice full of spirits that we can explore through the the the experience of journeying. And it's funny that, you know, I think it's really a really common thing that I've experienced, and I know that you've experienced a lot as a teacher is, is in the beginning. There's always the question, am I just making this up? Like, when I journey? Am I just making this up? And I literally, I had a, I had a student that I'm that I'm working with one on one, you know, just over just last week that I taught how to sort of journey one on one and of course, that that question came up, you know, in advance, well, how do I know if I'm just making this up? And I said, Well, you know, the only thing I can say is just keep journeying. And there will come a moment, where you realize, okay, I can't possibly be making this up. And I don't know what that's gonna be. And her very first journey. She was Alright, that was totally real. I totally was. Yes, right. temprite complete confirmation.

Well, and also what's true is that, you know, for, for many people who learn the practice of shamanism and journeying, they become interested in it not being just a self serving practice dot one that just is, you know, enhancing their own understanding of worlds beyond the scene world. But they then develop if they choose to the capacity to do healing work for others, or doing exploratory journeys to help their friends and family and colleagues or whoever, to, you know, to gather answers to some of their critical questions. And that, for me, is where I find most people discover that they cannot possibly be making it up, because they come back from a journey to ask a question on behalf of, even if it's somebody in this beginner workshop, or ask a question for, you know, a neighbor after they've gotten home from a workshop. And they get information and visuals and auditory experiences that they cannot possibly have known because the person they've journeyed for, they might have just met five minutes ago. So that for me is always like, where I say the rubber hits the road. People get it all my I am not making this up. Yes, your imagination is in some ways engaged because you have to go to these other dimensions of reality, and then come back, you have to have some memory of what happened. Right? Right. So some part of your conscious self is engaged. But it's it's it's not your conscious self that has these experiences. It's your own spirit, meeting spirit. And that's where the guidance, the healing, the wisdom, the power comes from is these other outside of the, of the, the embodied experience, that wisdom that resides all around us that is accessible by any of us.

And I think you would probably agree that in traditional shamanic cultures, the role of the shaman was, you know, as sort of a functionary a spiritual functionary, that was sort of the frequently the center of a community that people went to for healing, to find out when to plant the corn to find out, you know, where the, where the, you know, the livestock got off to that they can't find all of those. All of those things were sort of in the in the more traditional role of the shaman in what we call shamanic cultures. Yes,

that's absolutely true. And that's, you know, Where we as modern day practitioners derive our you know, our path to some extent, you know, the understanding that the practice of shamanism, although it can be, you know, the path to some extraordinary personal growth and understanding of self and the world. The initial understanding, you know from where we tap into the roots of our ancestors is that the shaman was the psychologist, the doctor, the, the spiritual leader, of a healer, the leader of the tribe, or a community or village in which he or she was found. And that isn't true in our modern day culture, of course, because we don't live in small communities or, for the most part, I mean, certainly we still have, you know, here in America, we have native american people who are still very much in tribal communities. But in general, Anglo Saxon, Christian, Judaic, Islamic people don't have that kind of leader in their culture. So it's often by accident, to some extent that a person finds a shamanic practitioner, that they're led to, to access some healing power for themselves. But that's the, you know, what I'm trying to get to here is that the initial function of the shaman in antiquity was to be the healer, be the therapist, be the spiritual guide, be the one who made decisions about everything, like you said, from when we plant the corn to understanding from being able to communicate with spirit when it was time to pack up and leave because the snow is coming. And the lives of the people were dependent upon the Shama. And, you know, the, I always like to say, when I'm teaching students, you know, the, the, the people didn't become the shaman in their culture, because, you know, they put their hand up and said, Yeah, I'll be the shaman. Right, nice day, they had to go through amazing initiations. Well, sometimes it was through ancestry, like, you know, your grandfather was the shaman and you got trained under him, for instance, to you know, to walk in his shoes when he left his mortal body. But for the most part, you know, the shaman was was chosen by having to go through numerous initiations, which would be in our modern day times. brutal and, and the person who survived you know, if there may be five people going through initiations, the one who lived through it was the one who ended up being the shaman because he or she had demonstrated that they had phenomenal capacity with communicating and being one with spirit. We don't do that, of course, because

I'm happy you didn't put me through that door.

Nobody in modern day culture would sign up for that, and it will make sense based on our current culture. However, what is true is that when, when modern day persons began to experience shamanism and throw themselves more intently in a committed way into the practice of shamanism, they to experience you know, more modern day kinds of initiations, like, you know what needs to happen in order for a person's ego to get out of the way for them to understand that the healing and wisdom and power that they're conveying has nothing to do with them. It is not about oh, I am really cool. I am really powerful. Watch this. It's completely about what we call becoming the hollow bone being the pure conduit between spirit, the formlessness of spirit and bringing that formless power healing wisdom and what have you into form or into, you know, the embodied middle world, culture of humans, trees, plants, birds and so forth.

I think it's one of the things I love about shamanism is that it lets me off the hook a little bit. Yes. Because I'm not doing any of this. If I bring back information, and it doesn't make sense, I'm still gonna deliver it, because it's my job to step out of the way. And understand that my limited three dimensional human understanding of things is just that limited, three dimensional and human. And it's, you know, it not only lets me off the hook a little bit, but when I'm doing you know, when I don't know how to how to this doesn't sound the right term, when I'm doing work for somebody when I'm practicing with a client, for example. It's helpful for me, because it because there's because it takes some of the pressure off, I can I hand things over to helping spirits, right?

Yes, in fact, you know, after 25 years of practice, I say to my clients, always, you know, we have a conversation, they tell me something about what's going on what's not working in their lives, you know, maybe they've just gone through a terrible divorce, or they're suffering some kind of physical ailment that nobody in the medical world is able to diagnose or, you know, whatever their, whatever is not working in their life, we talk about it. And, you know, I have some concepts in my mind, because I've been doing this for a lot of years about what, you know what direction we might go in with the healing work. But at the same time, I actually say out loud to the client, actually have no idea. It's really not what I think I could be completely wrong here about where we're going to go with this work. And so before I even begin the journey, I have to surrender my thoughts by beliefs, my understanding of what might be the core issue here that needs healing, and allow my health experience to guide me to what needs to be done. And I have to say that, you know, at least 50% of the time, my ideas were not, were weren't right. Okay, Dorian, that was a good thought. But you know, what, this is where we're going. Right? In? It's not what you think.

Yeah, yeah. And sometimes there's, for me, anyway, sometimes there's a time component, right? where, you know, somebody might, you know, a client might come to me and say, you know, I'm dealing with the trauma of a relationship or something along those lines. And I'll say, Well, you know, that might mean, today is the day for some soul retrieval, or you might not be ready for that yet. Right? spirits are going to tell me what's to be done today.

Exactly, exactly what is in the client's highest good today. And perhaps, you know, a client has a situation in their lives, like, like you just mentioned, like a difficult, you know, ending of an intimate relationship. And they're initially what they want they have contacted you for is, you know, help me with this because I have a broken heart. And I can't seem to get on with my life. But underneath the current trauma, may be something that is far older. Sure. And, and we don't know that. We just have to go with where our spirit helpers take us to, either, you know, if we're doing soul retrieval, bring back some essence of the person's soul that left when they were two years old, or, you know, remove some energy that is stuck in them that goes back to a relationship they had as a teenager. The possibilities are endless, and that's, you know, I like to say often, there's no way you could be bored practicing shamanism.

That's for sure.

Yeah. Because there is no repetition there is every situation is unique. Every journey is unique every I'm learning with every, every day, I am learning and deepening my practice. So there's no there's no humdrum to it. You know, I grew up as a As a Catholic, many, you know, many people practice shamanism had come from deep, you know, Christian roots or Judaic roots or, you know, Islamic roots or any particular religious background. And, you know, there, there's a certain humdrum pneus to most organized religions, you know, like, as a Catholic, well, you know, when you pray the rosary beads, you did it the same way, every time, right? Nobody changed the prayers. Like, just, you know, there, there was a good monotony to it, but yet, you know, what's never, never a unique in shamanism, every journey is unique, every experience is unique. And, and though, you know, we develop relationships, and this is really important to say that the listening audience is that we're not you know, as practitioners, we're not just grabbing on to any spirit that's passing by to, to, to gather wisdom and healing power from we develop long term relationships with a very specific, what we call helping spirits or spirit partners. And it's through that relationship that we are able to bring through the power and healing that a client needs, whether that client is a dog, or you know, a patch of land, or, you know, the spirit of a flock of birds. So, through those relationships, those deep, long forge trusting relationships, like I know when my helping Spirit gives me a piece of information, even if I in my mind, think, Oh, my God, how am I gonna say this to the client? I know that I have to, because I know that they understand things that is that are not possibly that I'm not possibly capable of understanding about this person, and what they need and what is happening. And every time without fail, when I dare, as I must, because that's a commitment we make as practitioners. say, Well, this is what I saw, this is what happened. And this is the message I got. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but I hope it settles well with you. And sometimes clients are like, Oh, my, how did you? You know, what? How could you have known that? How are you know? Well, I didn't know. That's the truth. I didn't know. But the spirits who are around us always always they never go away. The other ones who know?

Yes, yes. It's one of the things that becomes really apparent very early on in anyone's shamanic tenure to realize that we are constantly surrounded by spirits Yes, all the time. You know, there's more I talk about you know, when I talk about sort of the middle world and the middle world is the where we live but there's a spiritual component to that as well. It's that the middle world is full of spirits and some of them have physical representation but not all of them and I don't think probably even the majority of them have visitation and that's just one world exactly in which there are many many worlds to to explore

is a really good point john we're constantly you know, I mean we we develop sensitivity The more we practice shamanism to the presence of the unseen around us you know that there are you know, like in this room that I'm sitting in here I don't know how many spirits around me but I know that there are a lot and you know, I can choose to tap into their spirit energy or not because I have sovereignty as an individual and but if I choose to tap into it and really feel into Whoo, this room is really filled with beautiful light beings who are here to protect me and console the guide me and entertain me and help me see things that I might not see if I'm just in my thinking mind sitting out front of a computer.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, and it's Yeah, having interactions with you know, other cultures. You realize how, you know, some cultures these spirits are in our, you know, if you live in a Western culture and I know that there are people listening all over the world, but you know, sort of the, if there is a single Western culture, you know, just in generally speaking, spirits aren't that present in daily life as they are in some other cultures. So, for example, in Japan, where, you know, Shinto is you know, Shinto and Buddhism kind of go hand in hand there, you know, you have a shrine inside your house, that enshrines you know, spirits, or is a seat of your ancestors or, you know, that sort of thing. And there are lots of cultures where spirits are more present in daily life, right, then the culture that you and I grew up in a very, very similar space. We both grew up in Maine, and it's, it's not as present and yeah, you go to church once a week or however many times and you pray, and that's your, that's sort of the limit of your interaction with spirit unless you're sensitive and being imparted with stuff you might not choose to be.

Right. Yes, that's, that's absolutely true. And, you know, what, another thing that develops as people move more deeply into the practice of shamanism is that they recognize that, that there are no boundaries to being with spirit. You know, as as you know, john, we often create altars, you know, small altars. I have altars, all over by healing space here, you know, an altar to the spirits of my teachers, an altar to the spirit of myself as a teacher and honor, you know, honoring the spirits of birds and so forth. So it helps to remind us, shamanism is a way of life, it is not just, oh, I'm going to do a journey, so I'm practicing shamanism now, where once we really engage ourselves, and come to see that there is only oneness, there is no beginning, there is no end. We're not separate from all that is, there is no hierarchy, then we come to understand that this is a way of being It is not like having a time in our lives where we say, Oh, it's Sunday morning, I'm going to church. It's a daily, moment by moment. way of living?

Yeah. So it's, you can't, I don't think you can, I mean, of course, thinking back to when I started practicing, you know, you're learning you're going through, and it's sort of something you do, but then it changes you in a way that you can't, you can't sort of undo and I liken it to, you know, you you blow up a balloon, you fill a balloon with air, which coincidentally, the word for air and a lot of cultures is the same as the word for spirit. And you deflate it, that balloon never quite goes back to the same shape.

Exactly. That's a great metaphor. I also want to say to the, to the listeners that you know, practicing shamanism does not mean in any way that you have to leave your traditional, spiritual or religious background in the, in your rearview mirror. Many people, many, many, many people practice shamanism and go to church every Sunday, or go to temple or continue practicing their Hindu or Islamic or, you know, belief system, because it's part of their culture as part of their family as part of their ancestry. But it may change the way they view that practice. But it does not mean that they set that practices aside.

Right. And I think one thing you know, one thing that I have sort of recognized in my own my own sort of nerdy research into shamanism and that sort of thing is that the shamanic figure and shamanic practice and what we call shamanic people exists in some way, in every culture that we can look at. And so when you look at like, you know, And I'm not I'm not an necessarily an expert in world religion, but when you look at like Islam and you have the Sufi practices, where they're doing meditations or they're doing movements that are altering their consciousness so they can be lifted up to commune with angels, that's very in line with what we would be doing as shamanic practitioners. When we look at even even some early Christian practices, we we see that we definitely see that in, you know, in, in ancient Greek and Roman cultures and Egypt and cultures and all of these cultures. Shimano practice went hand in hand, there wasn't, you know, some of them did not have a separate role. Yes. Like we would consider a shamanic culture to be sort of tribal and have this role. Some of them didn't have that role, but the practice the belief, the lifestyle existed, cross culturally. And really, if you look, if you look closely enough at any culture, you can find the practice everywhere, everywhere and at all times that we have records for.

It's absolutely true, john, absolutely. The other thing that is, you know, is important to understand is that, you know, when when somebody seeks working with a shamanic practitioner, which by the way, we don't call ourselves shamans in modern day practice, because that's seem to be very egocentric. Somebody could call me a shaman, if they want to, they can say, Oh, she's my shaman. But I don't call myself a shaman. Because that's, that's taking on a little too much. Right? ego sense of self. So anybody, from any culture I have worked with, you know, 85 year old ladies who were like so Catholic, that it was completely ingrained in their sensibilities about everything in life. I've worked with people who are practicing suit who, you know, who are Sufi practitioners, I've, you know, it does not matter, because in the end, we're all praying to the same God, right? There is no, there's no separation. And so, in the practice of shamanism was sort of going underneath the dogma underneath the rules underneath all of that, and accessing the ultimate grains of truth, that we are all one, that we are all spirit, and that we all when we leave our mortal bodies, when our soul or spirit leaves us, we become part of the fabric, of of life. And we're not separate and a kind of way, it's not that Catholics go one place, and Sufi is go another when their souls leave this dimension of reality. We're all one. And coming from that place. It makes it possible to speak the same language to anybody, anybody who has any kind of cultural or spiritual or religious belief. Because we're going to the bottom, we're going to the foundation of it all, which is not wound around dogma or leadership, or, you know, as I said, at the very beginning, shamanism is a practice of direct revelation, there is nobody who is going to interpret what is happening, nobody who's going to say, Oh, no, no, no, no, that that breaks that rule. There are no rules, there are customs, but no rules.

It's, it's a really interesting point. And, you know, we've said a few times that shamanism really has no dogma, and there are no rules and there aren't leaders interpreting revelations for us. And yet, integrity is really important in the practice of shamanism. And as I think there might be sort of, I have run into the concept I'll say with a number of people that, well gosh, if there's nobody there, to tell me what the rules are, I'm just going to you know, people are just going to live life lawlessly and go around and, you know, kill people and steal their things. And destroy the planet and do all of the all of this stuff. But what I think what I think happens when you practice shamanism, at least from my perspective is, you start to recognize why living with integrity is important. And you don't need somebody necessarily to tell you why or how or what that means

is that that's absolutely true. Because the spirits teach you. Right? There's, there's no human, you know, between you and the spirits who are telling you, oh, you know, really? Do you want to chop that tree down? You know? How about if you go out and, you know, talk to the tree and see how the tree feels about being chopped down? And, you know, is there some other way that that tree can, can, you know, offer us some thing, you know, even though it looks like it's maybe going to fall on your house, just there? Is there some way that you can come to an agreement with the tree about how to proceed. So you know, that's where the integrity comes, you have you come to recognize that you're not, you're not alone, ever, you know, they're and, and you're living on this planet, in a body, accompanied by billions of organisms and plants, and the elements. And all of these beings play a role in how you are able to live as a human at this time. And so if you don't, if you don't proceed with integrity, the spirits who you're working with, will let you know. And perhaps, will stop working with you, you know, this practice is not something to be taken lightly. Like, you know, some people first learn and say, Oh, well, now that I have this skill, maybe I can journey and find out what the megabox numbers is. Next week, right, right. Well, and oh, no, that's not gonna work. You're, you're helping spirits. They're just gonna laugh at you. Well, they'll give you a number, but it won't be the right number. Right? Right. No, and it will be their way of saying, Yeah, go ahead, spend your money on these numbers. But we're not you know, that's not our purpose. We're not we're not here for your entertainment or for, you know, the gathering of more money or power or fame. We're here to advance your souls understanding of the grandness of a life.

Yeah, and I I liken that to you know, a lot of people believe that they have incarnated into this body for a reason there are lessons they have to learn, there are things we have to accomplish contracts we have to fulfill. And there aren't really shortcuts to that. And you know, winning, winning the lottery is if if the spirits were so inclined, I think I you know, I can't interpret things for them, but just from my, my brain would be seen like a shortcut, like, no, you're not you're on this path, to learn these lessons. And part of that is not winning $100 million in the lottery to enrich yourself with with spirit in that way. Exactly.

Right. Yeah, that's, that's not the that's not ever the purpose of your relationship with spirit helpers. It's the purpose is to gather spiritual knowledge, wisdom, power, healing on behalf of others, not just humans, but all beings and to live in integrity as you as you said, when a when a shaman, or shamanic practitioner stops living from a place of integrity. Then they've they lose their power, it's the spirits will not support them. I call it a shaman gone bad. Like, oh, oh, that is not the intention of doing this work. And when you veer from the path of love and compassion and integrity, then the spirit world is not going to support Your ongoing ability to gather guidance or healing or wisdom from them, they're just gonna shut you down. And, and that's the end. If that doesn't happen to most people, most people get it, you know, because the love and compassion and wisdom that they're able to tap into is life altering. It alters the person's heart, the way they understand the complexity of our relationships with all beings that, that we really are not separate, you know, and in our, in our culture, we've developed this belief system that humans are like, at the top of, of the evolutionary chain. Well, that's just a bunch of bunk. You know, there's no truth to that we are just one with the tiniest of creatures, the, the, you know, we think we're the only ones who have consciousness and the ability to make decisions. You know, when when you move into the practice of shamanism, and you pay attention, you become to understand that all of life has some consciousness of life, you know, what do people think, is driving ants to, you know, come out of the Earth at a particular time and work together as a team? That, you know, is yes, the scientists might say, well, there's a scientific design to that. Well, yes. And how did that happen? You know, what are the initial roots of that capacity for the ants to work as a team and know what to eat and what not to eat? And when to go in when the rain drops calm? And, you know, I was just reading an article about a plant. Oh, no, I'm not gathering it now. But there's a particular plant that knows exactly when to reach for something when it expands as leaves to reach for a particular something. And, and scientists are now studying in a well, what drives that plant to know. Right?

Right.

Well, it is, it's not. It's not that the plant has a brain, but it has a consciousness, it has an understanding of what it needs to survive, and what it needs to expand and what it needs to be a part of the fabric of life, which is really, ultimately, all that we

are. I think one of the most beautiful pieces of research I've become aware of recently is about the mycelial network of Yes, fungus that lives underground, that trees actually use to communicate, so they live symbiotically, and they exchange chemicals with the trees. And if a tree you know, half a mile away, is lacking sunlight or nutrients or some somewhere, it can be delivered through this mycelial network. Underground from another tree. It's amazing. And we, you know, we don't necessarily think of that as consciousness because it is so alien to our human consciousness. Right? It is consciousness it is in consciousness is everywhere. And in everything. I think, in my existence. We're swimming, we're swimming in consciousness.

We are absolutely.

So. Um, so we are actually coming. Can you believe that? We're coming to the end of the podcasts? Wow. But I started your your Thank you. So I did want just sort of one final question. So you know, if somebody has been listening, if somebody's been listening to this podcast, and they're like, gosh, that sounds really interesting. How would I begin? If I were, you know, living somewhere in the world, and like, I'm really interested in in learning some shamanic practice and diving into the world. Where would I where would I start out? How would you find a place to start? Well,

you know, 1010 years ago, I would have said, you know, find a local practitioner who you could go take a course with, and what's what's really wonderful about the advancement Technology and communication throughout the world is that now regardless of where you are, if you have the capacity to listen to a transmission, either via audio or a video, you can access, you know, beginner, our introductory courses online, you know, via zoom or via radio or via podcast or so my suggestion is that regardless of where, you know, the listener is resigning at this moment that they do a search, you know, online to find, you know, practitioner teacher, I mean, really a teacher, you want to learn shamanism from somebody who knows how to teach not just somebody who has taken a course themselves and thinks they know how to teach. So, you know, for you, for instance, john, have a website and you offer occasional classes and one on one teaching, and there are many other people like you around the world. I don't want to direct the listener to any particular website or place. But, you know, if, if you're listening to this, and you have the capacity to search through, you know, Google or any other engine, search for, you know, introductory courses in shamanism, and, you know, do your research, make sure that the person who is teaching this course has themself some that's a person who's offering this teaching has some background, some, you know, has themselves studied and also knows how to teach.

Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's definitely a different thing. Practicing and teaching are are two very different two different skills.

Yes.

Although you do have to know how to practice to teach. Practicing alone doesn't necessarily give you what you need.

That's right. Absolutely. As you know, john, I've, you know, been teaching a handful of students how to teach some of the advanced work that you know, I will eventually back away from because of my aging, even though I'm in excellent health, I you know, when one because when one gets into their mid 70s, they come to realize that there is there is a time when one has to back away from certain activities. So, you know, john, for the listeners, john is one of those students who has been studying this advanced work with me and is going to be, and he is really qualified to teach, you know, not just beginner work, but advance work. So I, you know, I can endorse him as a fabulous teacher and somebody that you could trust with, who has integrity and understands the work and is a loving, compassionate guide and teacher.

Well, thank you. I'm blushing over here.

Thank you can't see you. Right.

That's what I have to say.

So yeah, so there, you know, in this in this time, there are so many avenues for people to be introduced. But I caution the listeners to do their homework, make sure that they that they find a teacher who's qualified, who has done their work and has has studied how to teach.

And if people want more information about you Dory, you have a really excellent website, which is, amongst other things, a really great

resource for finding out more information about shamanism and finding classes and teachers. And I really suggest if you're interested in shamanism at all, signing up for dories email list, which you can find on her website, which is DoryCote.com. That's dorycote.com. And definitely her her mailing list is a great place to start as well.

To get all kinds of to get all kinds of resources and learning and mailing lists are free. So that's, you know, That's a great thing as well.

Yeah, thank you, john. Yeah, I love having people receiving my newsletter and other, you know, opportunities to do some things online that don't cost anything. And I, you know, we're, we're, We Are the World, we are the people. And you know, there is no separation. And so regardless of where someone is, you know, what's lovely is that they can they can access things today.

It is it is amazing, like that giant mycelial network. Yes, exactly. Um, you know, we're imitating the trees at this point. So, with that, I want to, I want to say thank you very much for coming on. It's been it's been wonderful and taking time away from your very, very busy schedule. And I will actually talk to you in a couple days, but not on the podcast.

Yes, yes. I look forward to it.

Thank you very much, and you'll hear from us next time.

Excellent. Thank you.

You have been listening to speaking spirit with your host, john more. For more info or to contact john, go to Maineshaman.com. That's ma i n e s h a m a n.com.