This week, we're joined by molten glass sculptor and artist Momoko Schafer (she/her)! Momo starred in season 1 of Netflix's glassblowing competition show Blown Away, and also founded Self Love Social Club, a QTBIPOC-led platform for your healing journey!

This is definitely Momo's first video game podcast, and we're stoked to have her. We talk about gaming culture through the lens (lol, glass, get it?) of an artist, the growing popularity of Twitch and possibilities in the medium of streaming, mobile gaming, gaming as pop culture, and so much more!

Meanwhile, your co-hosts can't wait to tell you about our sparkling new PATREON! We're psyched to build community with you and hope you'll join us. We also read our first LISTENER EMAIL!?!? Also, BUGSNAX. Omg, this is a can't-miss episode.

Find Momo Schafer on IG: https://www.instagram.com/glassymomo/

Donate to the Fundraiser for Black Mental Health: https://ioby.org/project/easy-activism-fundraising-black-mental-health

About Pixel Therapy

New episodes drop every other Tuesday. Learn more at pixeltherapypod.com or follow us on social media @pixeltherapypod. If you like what you hear, please take a moment to rate us, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts (or your listening app of choice) & subscribe! Want more? Join our little community over on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/pixeltherapypod

This is a really unique place that I'm in right now on a

video game podcast. Even telling my friends and family, they're

like "You? Why you?? But video games, it's huge. It's

everywhere. Games are important because that's just part of

human life. We grow-even when we go to school and play recess,

like we're playing, playing and interacting and playing out

different roles, different boundaries, different rules,

different goals, like all of that's super important. [music

break]

Welcome to Pixel Therapy, the video game podcast where we

look at the games we play through the lens of the player,

where what you play is just as important as how you play it,

and where emotional intelligence is a critical stat. Every other

week, we bring on a guest who may or may not consider

themselves a gamer to discuss one of the games that made them

and changed them, and all the feelings they have about our

favorite pastime. I'm your co-host, Jamie, pronouns

she/her,

And I'm your co-host, Spencer, pronouns they/them.

And this is Pixel Therapy. So pull up an armchair,

feel free to lie down on the couch, and let's talk about our

feelings. Spencer, today, we need to start with some

housekeeping.

First, okay-when you say housekeeping? The first

thing I think of is Dusa, from Hades with her feather duster?

Yes, yeah. So just imagine I'm Dusa. And the

feather duster is all of the shit we need to say to our

audience. So first, we want to start with a big thank you to

everyone who came through on our request to share a pic of you

listening to the podcast and tagging us on social media. Oh

my gosh, it was so nice to see everyone doing that. And just

really great to like, actually get to see some of the people

who are listening to us, you know. We just talk into these

microphones, and it goes out into the interwebs.

So lonely.

And it was [laughs] it is a little lonely. So it was

really nice to see people responding to that and actually

get to see some of our audience. Thank you so much for doing it

to those of you who did, and we'd love to continue to see it.

So yeah, if you're listening to the podcast, you want to send us

a screenshot and say hi, we would love to say hi back and it

just helps us see our community and continue to build community,

which is one of the main reasons we started this podcast. Second,

we've been saying y'all could email us since day one. And

we're so excited to share that someone took us up on that

offer, and sent us this awesome email that Spencer is going to

read to you right now. Spencer, do you want to read this email?

I would love to read it. From our only fan. [both

laugh] Just kidding. But like, it's so yeah, it was really

exciting to receive an email. Um, okay, so the subject line is

"Assigned gamer at birth", and this is from Nate G. It says

"Hello," exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation

point. "I am so excited to be writing into you. First of all,

y'all are going to be big and you don't even know it." Oh my

god. That's so sweet.

But maybe I know it. You know, I know it.

Yeah. I mean, you got to manifest. "Finding your

podcast has been so interesting fter falling out of the habit

f gaming for several years. The aming landscape has exploded in

he years I was gone. I played ideo games regularly as a kid

I think that's a good "ugh", right?

lash teenager. And this podcast s such an accessible way back

n now that I'm interested in ekindling the hobby again." Oh,

my gosh. Oh, what? I want to know what he's playing. Okay.

"Also, that it's discussin gender and mental health an

just disects these brilliant y intersectional topics the

e games are addressing, like, ug

Good "ugh". "Games are works of art that can have

hundreds of people involved in their creation." True. "And I

feel like your show gives them the full analysis and critique

that they deserve." Aww. "I wanted to write in with a small

story about something I experienced at work the other

day." Oh my god, so that was just a gassing us up paragraph.

Like thank you.

I'm blushing.

Oh my gosh, okay, there's more. "I wanted to write

in with a small story about something I experienced at work

the other day. I mentioned in passing that I learned the NATO

alphabet from playing Call of Duty. One of my co-workers

responded with something along the lines of and I quote, 'Oh, I

would have never known that you were a gamer.'" Ah! Okay. "I

just found the comment interesting. I'm a trans guy,

and they're all aware of that." Parentheses. "I'm the only one

at work with my pronouns on zoom lol" Oh my god, that's such a

trans mood. It's like "oh my god, we're inclusive. Like

everyone put your pronouns in your bios," and it's like just

the trans people who do, and like "oh great, we just outed

ourselves for you. Amazing." Okay, anyway. "I just found the

comment interesting. I'm a trans guy, and they're all aware of

that. But I wonder if the assumption comes from a deeper

place or not. My biased assumption is that everyone

probably grew up playing video games. So I wonder whether or

not others either don't have the same assumption or assume

differently because of my identity, or because I don't

seem quote unquote, butch. Or rather assume that there are

certain types of games I would and wouldn't play COD not being

one of them. Though, if I'm being honest, I'm dying to play

Dream Daddy. Ahahahaha. Love you and thanks for being here. Nate.

pronouns he/they." Oh my god. Okay, yeah. Thank you. Um, wow.

Yeah. So I think it's interesting. Like, oh, first-Did

you have any thoughts?

That's okay. You can speak first.

No, I just, like this idea of how you look somehow

translates to like, the type of music you like, and the types of

games you play.

Yeah.

I'm like, I just think that that's, that's interesting.

Like, he's saying that he's someone who doesn't seem butch

on. So maybe people look at him and think-what he's too

something to not be into COD? And also I feel like, with COD

specifically, there's almost this-kind of like, with bands or

like things that men can be like, protective over-like, it's

almost like you have to prove like, "Oh, you play Call of

Duty? Okay. Like, what year did each one come out? And who was

the director of each game? And like, what was the studio

responsible?"

Yeah. It's so silly. Yeah, just the fact that I mean,

we've talked a lot about how even the concept of like being a

gamer is so gendered. And then like, yeah, Call of Duty being

this quote, unquote, hyper masculine game. It's just-it's

all ridiculous. Like anybody can find something in Call of Duty

that they enjoy. It's, it's, it's competition. It's team

building if you're playing multiplayer. They have really

fun, action packed campaigns, like anybody can get into that.

And yet, it's like, ohhhh. I really like what Nate said about

how they assume that, like, everyone grew up playing video

games, because I feel like pretty much everyone did.

Yeah.

Like everyone gets their hands on a video game at some

point in their life. And we just-Yeah, I don't know why we

want to pretend like it's something that only some people

do as a hobby. Or like, only some people have a right to it.

Why? Why isn't it just as mainstream is like, saying you

watched a Disney movie as a kid? Like, anybody can be into this

shit. You don't have to fall into some specific category. And

there shouldn't be shock when someone says that they are into

it.

Yeah. Like, even if you've played a game, like a

mobile game, like a Jackbox game or like an online, one of those

like quiz games, or, like, you could argue that any thing

interactive, like what's like, what's a video game? Like, if

you play Candy Crush on your phone, like, is that a game?

Like, I feel like it is.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why we need to put it in a

hierarchy.

Yeah. I also really like the way um, I'm glad that

he said that, like, he feels like it's an accessible way to

get back in now that he's kind of rekindling his connection to

games.

Yeah. Welcome back.

Yeah. Like, welcome back. I feel like it ties in

with, uh, we'll get, we'll get to this. But the guest we had on

this episode, we kind of talk about entering, re-entering the

video game industry. And I think, it can be really

overwhelming if you haven't been in it for a while, like, and

that's part of what makes it so hard to, to figure out where to

start. But I just-I'm just-I love that he said that, because

I think that that's, like you said, part of why we're doing

it. So thank you, Nate.

Yeah, thank you, Nate. Yeah, between Nate's email and

the people saying hi to us on, on social media. It's, yeah,

we-One of the main reasons that Spencer and I started this

podcast is that we knew that there were more people out there

playing video games, who weren't straight white cis men, that,

you know, they dominate the media, the gaming media

landscape, and we knew there were people out there playing

games who didn't fit into that category. And we wanted to have

conversations with them and get to know them. So community-like

getting to know other people in that, who are doing that who

don't meet that definition, has been a goal from the beginning

and having a community with them has been a goal from the

beginning and so kind of to that end, our third big housekeeping

item that we wanted to bring to y'all today is that we are

officially launching a Patreon.

Ooooo Patreon.

Yeah, Pixel Therapy is officially launching a Patreon.

It's patreon.com/pixeltherapypod. The

entry level tier is just $2 a month. And that gets you a

monthly bonus episode featuring Spencer and I deep diving on

various video game topics. So if you do really like hearing us

babble about video games, this is the place to go.

For those Co-Op Mode episodes. We-Yes, we did a

Co-Op, we did what was called a Co-Op Mode episode. And it was

just the two of us kind of like going in and getting to know

each other in some ways and sharing with you like just sort

of, outside of the interview space, just kind of like really

having some, some therapy on how we think about and interact with

games and the industry around it.

Yeah, 100%. And we wanted to keep doing them. And this

feels like a great way to do it, because they are meant to be

really a conversation between us and our community. And so that's

what we're going to use the Patreon space for. All the money

that we make through the Patreon is going to go back into

sustaining the long term viability of the show by helping

to cover our software, equipment and marketing costs. And most

importantly our guest fees because we do compensate all of

the guests that we bring onto the show for their time. And

that's something that's really important to us. So by

supporting us on Patreon, you're just ensuring we can continue to

produce the podcast long term.

Yeah.

Of course, you're absolutely welcome in the Pixel

Therapy community, regardless of whether you support us on

Patreon. But this just is another way for us to see you

and connect with you. And as an extra little bonus, the first 20

Patreon subscribers will get a nice little sticker featuring

our Pixel Therapy album artwork. So if you're interested and you

have the means, get over there, patreon.com/pixeltherapypod and

subscribe. We can't wait to connect with you all on there.

That is right. And we also can't wait to see those

stickers out in the wild.

Yeah

Put it on your PS5

Put it on your PS5. Put it on your laptop. Put it on

your forehead and just walk around. Or on your mask, on your

facial covering as you go out there into the COVID-world of

COVID.

Yeah, On your water bottle. Put it on your friend's

water bottle. Put it on your car.

Really, really anywhere you might place a sticker, I

think you'll be able to place these stickers. It's a pretty

standard sticker arrangement. And it looks good. It matches

with everything really. That Pixel Therapy album artwork.

Yeah. Courtesy of our amazing artist Zar. Just by the

way they can be found @jellodemon on Instagram. They

are amazing.

Yeah. Yeah Zar does excellent work. Thank you so

much, Zar. Whew-That was a lot of updates. It's almost like

we're a real podcast now or something.

I know. Wow. We have news.

Oh my gosh, oh, my gosh, I just have so much to say. But

Spencer, let's give the people what they really want. Which is

to continue to hear us talking. What do you-What are you

playing, Spencer?

Yeah, so-Okay, I'm playing a lot of things. Um,

there's one thing, actually, that is, I feel like this kind

of counts as a game. But basically, you know, I, I am

both blessed and cursed to have a job right now, just because

there's a lot of like Zoom. And it can be very taxing. It's just

like the lack of, of being in a space physically with others.

There's something that gets lost in translation, I feel like,

with the lack of body language, and just communication in

general feel slower and harder, especially for new people who

have joined the team during the pandemic over the past eight

months. Like it's just been harder for them to feel

connected to the group and to kind of, you know, have those

little interactions that sort of build up into a relationship

that you develop with someone you're just meeting for the

first time. And anyway, long story short, the company

decided, Okay, we're gonna come up with a way to help everyone

socialize. And the software-they found this software and it's

called Gather.Town. You can check it out on your browser.

But essentially, it is this 8-bit, 2D world that you log

into. And you create your little avatars, basically with the

same, like unity based building blocks that Stardew Valley was

built with, so the styling of the pixel art is-it looks like

you're in Stardew Valley.

Oh, my God, dream come true.

Yeah. And it's-essentially it's like for,

it's for organizations, companies, etc. to kind of

recreate in a digital space, the feeling of being at a conference

or in a social setting and the way it works is like your camera

and microphone are on. But as you're walking around, it'll

turn on and off depending on your proximity to other people.

So if you walk up to a group of people, you'll just like, enter

their conversation. Um, and so-Okay, so here's the thing.

Like, at first it was, it was cute, like, I was like walking

around and there was like, these kind of pixelated versions of

the, like there's a canal that goes by our office. And so there

was like, this walkway and the grassy area and then the water.

And like these kind of, like pixelated versions of, of our

beer garden that we had and like a tea-These robots that would

make us tea. I'm sorry, I work for like a tech company. I'm

sorry. It's terrible. I know. [both laughing]

Robots that make you tea? Yeah, I think my brain just shut

off.

But, um, [coughs] excuse me. It's a nasal drip, I

swear. Um, it was cool. And cute. But it was almost like, I

feel like, I'm pretty introverted. And so when there

were big social, kind of company gatherings like that, it would

kind of be my MO to sort of make the rounds, mostly do people

watching, mostly talk to people that I know. But trying to just

do like, quick, like, "Oh, hey, great to see you" like, just

kind of catch up a little bit, and then keep moving. Um, but

you could kind of-I think, again, like in, in meet space,

like, you can kind of feel the tone of a conversation before

you walk up. And you can decide if you want to engage or not

without necessarily disrupting the flow of it. And in this

world, it was like, you would just be dropped, like no

context, like a, like a video starting like, like, there's no,

like walking up and trying to see what they're talking about

and then coming in. It's like, all of a sudden, you're just

dropped into a room with people essentially.

And is it like, Can you see the individuals talking?

Like, you can see their, their video?

You don't see their video until you get close enough

to the group of people. So like, you would see these like groups

of like huddles of pixelated people. And you would be like,

oh, like, it's that a closed group? You could see their names

and stuff, but you couldn't see the videos until you got close

enough.

So you can't-it's not like you can walk up and like as

you're walking up sort of eavesdrop a little bit on the

conversation

Right, exactly

And then decide if it's something you can pop into or

not.

Right, you just awkwardly appear. So I felt like

I just-

I'm sweating.

Yeah, I just started like, running like, I was just

Just like racing laps around the map.

Yeah. Like, I just didn't want to, because I would

pop in and everyone would either like, stop talking and be like,

[pauses for a beat] [laughs]

Oh, no. Oh, no.

Or they just keep going. And you're like, you feel

like, you feel like you're intruding because it's like,

Oh my god, yeah. And then you just leave.

Yeah, you just leave.

The video just comes up and then just goes away. Oh no.

So what I would do is I would make rounds. And then I

would periodically change the appearance of my character so

that people wouldn't be like, Oh, it's the same person who

just keeps like, coming by our group. So like, Okay, I guess

what I want to say is I really respect the technology. And I, I

love this idea of sort of gamifying like a- like I love t

e spirit of it. There were l ke little mini games in it. U

Yeah

, but I think it just, it kind o magnified what makes for aw

But having to meet strangers in that space was

ward situations at company ga herings in general. Um, I th

nk if it was just my team. It would be more fun because we

already know each other. And there's that sort of casual

ess between us all.

horrifying.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. So if-How large is your-like how

many people were at this thing?

Um, so it was optional. So there were like, I want to

say 200 people in there.

Oh, my gosh. Okay. Yeah. So when you were originally

describing this to me-cuz we were chatting about this, just

socially, you know, we do have conversations that aren't

recorded. I swear. When we were chatting about this, like a week

ago. I was like, Oh, that sounds like a really interesting idea.

Because well, for some context, my organization is only about 50

people. And so we've been trying to have Zoom socials that are

just like, pull my fucking teeth out of my head.

Yeah

Literally just like 30-40 people getting into a Zoom Room

and like two people are talking and everyone else is just

smiling uncomfortably at the camera. And then that happens

for an hour and then people log off.

Yeah.

And what I've always appreciated about socials is

like, you know, since it's a fairly small organization,

everyone knows each other to some extent, right, but you

still have, I don't know if cliques is the right word, but

you still have groups of people who work more closely together

who have a deeper relationship. And so when you go to a

gathering, like those groups are kind of broken off. And then

people will kind of like, say hi to each other across the groups,

but like, you still have like your core group that you're,

you're kind of rolling in with and you're chatting with, and

you're rolling out with that, you know, pretty well. And so

what appealed to me when you were describing the software was

like, Oh, that sounds like it would actually allow the people

who know each other better, to kind of like, get in their own

group, but you could still kind of-you could still mingle and

say hi to other people, and still have like a base to come

back to you and talk to. So it's not this weird thing where like,

only the people who feel comfortable talking to everyone

in the Zoom Room, which is what we end up with at these Zoom

socials that we've had, you know, there's a handful of

people that feel comfortable just talking to 30 people, and

the other folks who don't are sitting there quietly. It would

like allow people to have smaller group conversations.

Yeah.

And it sounded like-that sounded appealing to me in that

context, but what you're describing of like walking up on

like strangers and trying to poke your head into their

conversations. That sounds like a fucking nightmare. That sounds

absolutely so stressful and horrifying.

Yeah. Like, I think it is, like it's in theory good for

that situation you described, but I think because, like, it's

almost like, I wish you could adjust the sensitivity of

when-or at least, prompt you? Like, do you want to join this

conversation? Yes or no. But the idea that like-because it got to

the point where the space just got so saturated, that just

walking through the path you would end up accidentally

triggering conversations with people because you just moved

too close to them.

Yeah.

But like-They did have this thing called "ghost mode"

where you could turn it on and like, basically be like an Among

Us ghost where no one can see you, but you can see them.

Oh, my gosh, like Clay Aiken. The fly-If I was

invisible.

Yeah. [sings] "If I was invisible." Yeah. So there's

that. Um, I did utilize that a little bit, but then I felt

weird. Like I was, eavesdropping. So I kind of just

was like, I think I'm good.

I think I'm gonna go home now, aka log out of the meeting.

Yeah. I met-I saw a couple folks in there that I

usually don't run into. But it was also kind of like, "'Hey."

"Hey." "Like we're in this world. Isn't that funny?" "Yeah.

Okay, um," There's not like any-there's nothing to do. You

know, it's not like, we could be like, "oh, let's get a drink and

talk" or "Let's go play ping pong or something." Like, it's

like-

Well you said there is-there were games in there.

How did the games work?

Okay, so that's the thing it's like, there were

games technically, but it was basically like, they would have

an external, like, you know, there's this game called

dribble.io. And it's like a group game, browser based game.

And so essentially, you would go to this little pixelated game

table, and you would press like to play, and then it would just

load an embedded window of the other website. So you still have

like, it's not like it was seamlessly connected, you would

still have to build a room on that website, coordinate with

whoever you wanted to play with. And then set it up. It was just

like-it was just like a window to another browser. It was

essentially just like opening a new tab. So it wasn't really

like-it wasn't really integrated.

The games weren't like built into the platform.

Right, yeah.

Yeah, I guess what I was envisioning was-when you were

originally describing it to me and I was looking at the

pictures-I was just envisioning something different. Like, I

feel like if you could-and this technology exists, right? Like,

I've seen it used in multiplayer games and stuff, right? But like

spatial, like the ability to hear things based on your

location in the game world. So like, I feel like that would be

something they could very-well, I don't want to say very easily.

These things are complicated, I am sure. But the technology

exists where theoretically, they could set it up where as you're

actually, your character on the screen, is walking through the

party, as you approach conversations, you can actually

hear what those individuals are saying. Something where like as

you get closer-same as you would at a party and then that would

help you know, like, Is it okay for me to kind of bounce in?

Yeah.

Or even if they let you talk to people in that way,

like, let, all of the audio happen that way and then if

you're investing in a conversation you actually join,

and you can all see each other's faces.

Ooh, I like that.

That feels like it would be more seamless.

Yeah, like, I'd love that. I mean, honestly, it-like

it very much felt like this was in beta. Again, it's

Gather.Town. Like definitely check it out. I think it's a

cool idea. Like these-it's these fully customizable spaces. I

love the sort of integration of like this video game space being

a place to translate, like what used to be like real life

experiences. I love-I hope that it continues to grow and like

you said, like, kind of become more sophisticated in sort of

emulating what it's like to be in a real life space. Like,

instead of trying to-like I feel like we're always about

efficiency, efficiency, like, let's, like, totally transform

how we connect. And it's like, I feel like people just want just,

like there's something to this kind of organic connection. And,

we don't necessarily need to reinvent the wheel like, I

think, I think if anything, people are nostalgic for how

things used to be and want it to feel more like it used to be.

Yeah, yeah, I think that's totally right.

Anyway, um, speaking of nostalgia, maybe? And just like,

fun. What are you playing?

Wow, that was such a smooth transition.

Thank you.

When we're talking about seamless,

Yeah

Hitting the nail on the head. No, uh, myself, like

yourself, got PS5s. We're one of-We're the lucky-we're some of

the lucky ones. The blessed ones.

Yeah.

We pre-ordered the PS5s as soon as they went up, and we

were able to actually get them.

It was all thanks to Jamie I did nothing.

Well, and I credit my PS5 to @wario64 on Twitter. It's a

deals account on Twitter. He tweets out links to deals and

stuff when they go up. And he is the only reason that I was able

to get a PS5.

He's the only reason anyone listening was been able

to get a PS5.

Pretty much. I feel like, I feel like a lot of people can

trace their PS5 purchase back to Wario. So thank you, @wario64

and all the good that you do in the world.

Yeah, for sure. But, uh, but yeah, that came that came

You're a real one.

last week in the mail. And I don't know, you know, it's,

there's lots to be upset with in the world right now for sure.

But last week was kind of like video game Christmas for me a

little bit. And I feel like I'm still in kind of the afterglow

of that.

Yeah.

Like, this is the second time I've been able to get a

console at launch, which I do consider myself very lucky to be

able to do that. And the PS4 was the first one. And it's just,

it's just exciting. I don't know, maybe I'm just like a

consumer sucker. Suckling at the teat of corporate Sony. I don't

know, but, but it's just fun. It's fun to like, have the new

thing and to set it up and to get the new games and to play

them and it feels exciting, it feels new and fresh. I will say

like, one thing that's just so cool about the PS5 is like I was

able to plug it in and just unplug my PS4 and just put my

PS4 away. Like all of the-all of those games in my backlog on the

PS4, I'm gonna be able to play those on my PS5.

Did you sync? So you synced them before you unplugged

the PS4?

I didn't because the-one of the downsides to the PS5 is

that it does not have a ton of storage space. It only has about

650 gigs of storage space. So what I did is I'm keeping my PS4

games on an external hard drive. But I can just plug that into

the PS5 and play them right off of that hard drive when I want

to.

Is that like a special hard drive for the PS4? Or is it

just any old hard drive?

No, it's a two terabyte Seagate external USB hard drive.

Cool.

They're like $50. Yeah. So it's pretty easy to do.

It-actually, it was the hard drive that I had installed in my

PS4. So on the PS4, you could actually swap out the hard drive

to expand your storage capacity. So it was a hard drive that I

actually had in the PS4.

I know this is riveting podcasting.

Sorry, is this boring? I don't know. I'm a big fucking

nerd. And I like all this stuff, so yeah, I like being able to

have all my PS4 games on that. And I like that I've just been

able to play on the PS5. And the controller feels really good in

my hands like I've been nerding out about the controller. Like

it just like feels like it fits in a way that-

So heavy

Yeah it's, it's got a little bit of weight to it. But

yeah, some of the games I've been playing-I played Astro's

Playroom, which is like this cute little platforming game.

It's only a couple hours long. And it's really like a tech demo

for the controller. But it's also kind of a love letter to

PlayStation. There's like, all these little-they're these cute

little, little white and blue and black robots that are kind

of bopping around and they make weird little robot noises. And

as you're like moving through the world, you can find all of

the robots like acting out different scenes from different

PlayStation video games over the years. And it was like, so cool

to like, find them and then be like, oh, what game is that?

Because it doesn't quite, you know, they're still the robots

so you're like, "That looks familiar. What is that? Oh,

that's The Last of Us. Oh my gosh."

Woah.

So that was that was really cute and cool. And, and

while it's doing all that, it's like showing you all the cool

things that the controller can do. The haptic feedback in the

triggers is really impressive. There's-you can get this little

turret gun that shoots little balls out and you're like

holding down the trigger. And it's like, the trigger is like

shaking your finger and you can actually feel the little balls

coming out of the gun and stuff like that. It's just really fun.

Yeah.

It was a fun cute little game. So I played that. I've

been playing Miles Morales, the new Spider Man game. I've been

playing it in performance mode, which I've never done before. So

it's 60 frames per second. 4k resolution and holy shit. Like

my eyeballs. I can't go back. I can't go back.

What is it like?

Fucking smooth. It just looks smooth as hell like is the

best way I can describe it. And it's really impressive. I'm

really liking that game so far. Not really ready to talk about

it yet. I'm only a couple hours in but really liking it so far.

But the game that grabbed my heart and my mind and my soul

and my body. And my stomach, is Bugsnax.

Yes.

Thinking, talking about Bugsnax.

What's your favorite bugsnack?

Favorite bugsnack is probably, hmm. I really like the

bunger.

bunger bunger bunger bunger

And I really like scoopy banoopy.

Okay, I have not met that one yet, but wait, oh,

describe bunger for the people.

Okay, so bunger is uh-Okay, so first, let's rewind

for two seconds. If you don't know what Bugsnax is, go look up

the trailer for Bugsnax and just watch it. It's like a three

minute trailer. It's so funny and weird and cute. But

basically the pitch for Bugsanx is that you are a thing called a

grumpus, which is kind of like a little otter bear creature.

Little fuzzy guy.

A little fuzzy guy. I love that-the game is first

person and when you look down, you can see your little belly.

You can see a little furry belly. It's so fucking cute.

I love it.

So you're this thing called a grumpus and you're a

reporter. And you've been sent to this place called Snack Tooth

Island, where the explorer Lizbert Megafig has discovered

these things called bugsnax. And bugsnax are

[singing] "Kind of bug and kind of snack"

Exactly that. Exactly that. What Spencer is alluding

to is there's this wonderful song that plays in the trailer

that basically just describes the entire premise of the game,

which is why I'm saying go look up the Bugsnax trailer. That's

B-u-g-s-n-a-x. Look it up. Watch it. If you don't know what we're

talking about, you need to know what we're talking about. So

please go look this up and watch this trailer. But bugsnax are

food that is like an insect essentially. And so the bunger

looks like a little cheeseburger. And he's wrapped

up in little paper. And he's got, he's got curly fries for

legs.

Yeah.

And he's got regular fries for little tusks. And he's

got big googly eyes.

They all have big googly eyes.

They all have big googly eyes and kind of like Pokemon

they all say their name. And so-and all of their names are

like kind of plays on-sometimes it's like hinting towards the

insect that they're like, like there's a "pineantula" that

crawls around like a tarantula but it's a pineapple. And yeah,

the bunger is a burger. And yeah, he wanders around he goes

"bunger, bunger, bunger, bunger", and it's just fucking

cute but the like slightly-but this game is so fucking weird

because it's also slightly horrifying because when people

eat the bugsnax, first of all, they have to eat them alive. You

can't cook the bugs snacks because it's just food.

And the way they describe it is like there's a

whole bugsnax mythology and they're like it's weird because

they're like, oh you know, it's like there's a scientist you

meet, and she's like, "the bugsnax have no organs or seeds

or insides like they're just, they're just good." And I'm

like, I don't-how-I-[laughs]

It's weird. It's weird. It's weird and kind of scary,

but when you eat the-

There's something unhinged about it, yeah,

Yeah, it's well, it's-it like, it's so cute and like nice

and pleasant. And like the world it's all like really bright

colors and cartoonish. But there's like this weird like-

Undercurrent of dread.

Exactly. Like there's something constantly needling at

your brain about like something about this isn't quite right,

because when they eat the bugsnax, it turns parts of their

body into the snack.

Yeah.

So for example, if you eat a bunger, your hand might

turn into a curly fry.

Mm hmm.

And like that can, you can-so you meet different

grumpuses on the island. You catch the bugsnax. You feed the

bugsnax to the different grumpuses, and you can fully

transform them into these kind of horrifying food creations.

And they like crave it.

They crave it. Yeah, the bugsnax are like addicting. And

there's this whole thing. So I actually finished the game. I'm

not gonna say anything more about that. Because, yeah, the

meta narrative does go there. But there's also like-you get

you get to the town, where you're you're expecting to find

Lizbert, and instead you just find the self proclaimed mayor

of the town, Filbo. And Filbo is sad because when Lizbert left,

all of the grumpuses living in the town moved away and went off

to do their own things. And he would like to bring them all

back. And so the the main story of the game, the main drive of

your character, is that you're ultimately trying to find

Lizbert. But in doing that, you're bringing all of the the

grumpuses, and there's like 12 or so of them, you're bringing

them all back to the community, you're getting to know them,

you're getting to understand why they left. And they all have

really complicated like interpersonal relationships with

each other. And it's just really, I don't know, there's

like, there's like something really heartwarming in the story

too about like, community and how people learn to get along

and like use their strengths together to survive. And to

build friendship with each other. And like you can-there

are things that you can disagree about, but you can still find

common ground and I don't know, there's like a really

heartwarming, like narrative there kind of underneath all of

this other weird silly shit. And it's just really connected with

me.

Yeah, I've definitely been surprised. I'm also playing

it, but I'm not done, like Jamie is, but, um, by the sort of

complexity of the characters and the darkness that some of them

have. And-

Exactly, yeah.

-the ways that they, like humans, can betray each

other, lie to each other, um, sort of have what might be

considered toxic relationships. It's just-I think it's a game

that truly appeals to people of a very many, like a whole range

of ages and, and backgrounds. Like, it doesn't seem like it's

for kids? But I don't know.

I think-I'm pretty sure it's rated like E for everyone.

And I think it's, it's like one of those things where it's, I

don't think it's quite striking a Pixar tone. I don't think is

quite what I would say. But it is-it does have a similarity to

Pixar in that, like, I feel like kids would enjoy playing Bugsnax

because of all the goofy bugs and the snacks and the grumpuses

are being silly. And then I think there's like a deeper

narrative there for adults to pull out, as well. But yeah,

I've been similarly really surprised by the depth. And all

of the characters-I just really liked them so much. They feel

like complete people. And I wasn't expecting that, you know,

based on the trailer, I was really excited for this game

because I was like, Oh my gosh, it just looks so cute and silly.

And I'm gonna catch these bugs. I'm gonna feed them and it looks

weird. And I love that. And then like, it's all of those things.

And it has like, this deep-these deep characters-that I'm really

connected to. So it really took me by surprise. It's a really,

really good game. Really fun.

And it's queer.

Yes. Yeah. There's-

Canonically.

Yes, exactly. There's a couple different gay couples in

the game. And a non-binary character. And I just-I like

that a lot. It's a really cute game.

Cute.

Well, I guess we should probably get to our interview.

And I'm pretending to be down about that. Really excited for

this interview that we have.

We could talk about Bugsnax for hours.

Yeah, that's really the issue. That's really the issue.

So today, the interview that we have for you is with Momoko

Schafer. She goes by Momo. She's from Boston. She is an artist,

primarily a glass artist, known for sculpting molten glass as

her main tool of expression.

NBD.

Yeah, yes, it's no big deal.

It's an ancient art form and no big deal.

You're literally pulling fire out of an oven and

sculpting it but-

It's fine.

No problem. And Momo was featured on Netflix's original

series Blown Away, which is about a glass blowing

competition. But the main reason that we had her on the podcast

is we think she's an interesting person. We think she does

awesome artwork. And she's-as an artist, she describes herself as

someone who's incredibly curious about art and other forms of

expression. She doesn't consider herself a gamer actually, though

she is really interested in the world of games. She does play

mobile games, which we talked with her about, but she just has

a deep fascination with gaming and the gaming community. And as

someone who's trying to do art, in this time of pandemic, she's

also been really branching out more into streaming and looking

for new ways to showcase her art online. And so the gaming space

and the twitch community space is something that's really

gotten on her radar recently. And she, she's just like a

really smart, interesting person who's really curious. And we had

a really-the conversation kind of goes places and goes all over

the place. And we talk about all these aspects of the gaming

community kind of through the eyes of a non-gamer.

Yeah, yeah, I think that she's a great example of

someone for whom gaming and gamers-like she's played games,

they've interacted with her life and been around in different

ways that she talks about in the interview. Like, I liked her

story about playing GTA as a way to connect with a cousin of hers

living in Japan and trying to learn about American culture.

And it's very, like, totally out of, what's the word like,

exaggerated and ridiculous. Yeah, as GTA is an example of

that. Yeah. And so you know, having her perspective, as an

artist, as someone working with a medium that is so ancient and

so kind of tactile and based in very physical-in a physical

manner. I think having her for a discussion on video games, and

this whole digital space that's being cultivated in this

pandemic era is really, really cool. But yeah, if you want to

see more of Momo, you can check her out on blown away. It's like

the glassblowing version of Chopped. It's pretty intense.

And she has some really distinctive and cool art style.

And yeah, without further ado, we're just really excited to

bring you this conversation with Momo Schafer. [music break]

Momo, hi, thank you so much for joining us. It's so great to see

you.

Happy to be here. Pretty good start to a Saturday.

Oh my gosh, yes. I couldn't agree more. Um, to

start, you know, for folks who may not be familiar with you,

with your work? Would you care to say a little bit about who

you are and what you're up to?

Yeah, I guess primarily I'm an artist. My name is Momoko

Schafer, most people call me Momo. I'm also an educator so I

teach classes. Prior to COVID, I was doing a lot of like selling

glass and stuff like that. But now, if you check me out now,

I'm kind of doing a lot of other things, digital drawings,

producing videos for my Patreon, writing, all kinds of stuff so.

From your website, you talk about how your work

specifically is focused on helping communities create a

really tangible relationship with glass art, I think

something that people might not know is that, you know, getting

into glass isn't exactly easy. For one thing, it's not the most

accessible mainstream art form. And for another thing, it's

pretty expensive to have access to the materials to the

equipment. So can you talk about-talk more about how your

lass work and your community ork kind of intersect and what

t is about, like how you're reaking down these barriers?

Yeah, I mean, this is something that's a continual

process, especially being someone who's a budding artist

and very much in the entry point of this industry. Very recently,

I've kind of gained some prominence and with that

prominence, I'm trying to make sure that I take advantage of

that platform and speak up on that because frankly, the glass

industry is pretty archaic. And there's a lot of things that

like, haven't changed for a very long time that really need to

change. And even in past movements, like #metoo, and

stuff, like, I didn't see any change. It just breezed right

over and with the Black Lives Matter movement happening right

now, it has to change. It really has to change.

Yeah what you said about how movements like, you

know, the recent, refocusing in on police brutality against

Black Americans and how you said that kind of just goes over the

glass community and isn't really something that these artists

might think is relevant to them because they're not, you know,

they're not political. They're just artists. I mean, we don't

have the option to separate ourselves from our art. I think

as, you know, as people of color, as a I mean, I was gonna

say as women but I forgot I'm not a woman anymore. So, all

right, do you identify? How do you identify, Momo? I don't want

to speak for you. But, you know, I was wondering if you had more

to say about that kind of relationship between, you know,

artists and this contemporary moment we're in and how, like,

you're, I think, part of like a really great, just sort of this

waking up to the fact that we are all connected.

Mm hmm. Yeah, absolutely. I'm seeing a lot of people

having more conversations. I'm, I'm obviously somebody, as

somebody who's biracial, as somebody who's queer, this has

always been on my mind. I do identify as a woman, and I'm,

you know, I'm very, like, in a heteronormative world, I blend

in very well. So that doesn't really come up as much. But me

being very Asian passing is a very consistent thing. So

anytime anything racial even came up, like people would look

to me as if I would be the spokesperson for all People of

Color. All of them. Because truly, like it's me, and maybe,

like, very recently, somebody reached out to me saying that

they wanted to hire a Black glassblower in like the Boston

area. And it was so painful to like, have to try to do that

search, knowing that the options would be extremely limited,

because glass has not made itself accessible to a ton of

communities, especially like Black, POC people.

Mm hmm. So you were on a Netflix show called Blown

Away. It was a reality show. And essentially, for folks who may

not know, it brought a bunch of glass workers from all over the

world, right? together to compete in a big hot shop. And

Momo, your work was, at the time, you were focused on

creating work that had to do with dreams. And folks should

definitely look up Momo's glass art. It's, it's beautiful, it's

evocative, I think that it-there's a certain playfulness

to it. It really sort of takes glass into an unexpected place,

into a fun place, into an accessible place. And before I

even met you, I remember watching Blown Away and feeling

this immediate, like this sharp feeling in my chest, because I

honestly felt like a lot of the judging that you received was

racist. You were, I think you may have been the only non-White

person in that room of competitors. And it was very

clear from the way the judging was done that the types of

things that they were looking for, and, and trying to pass

across as like universal truths of what is good glass art, all

had to do with very archaic and some might say, old fashioned,

but like in a shitty way of thinking-like it was very

Eurocentric, I would say, in its judging, and I was wondering,

like, you compose yourself with such dignity. And I felt like

your personality came through. You-like you were in there as a

young person. Just like killing it. And I had such a ton of

respect for you. But I just was wondering, like, Did it feel

weird? Like, did you-did you feel like shit was weird?

I mean, just from the very beginning, right? Like, this was

a reality TV show. And obviously, they want to make it

as interesting as possible. And so having a diverse cast of

characters, if I can all of us artists characters for the show,

like that's definitely a priority. So I could, you know,

obviously, I kind of was-that was in the back of my mind, when

I'm thinking of like, why it is that I'm being picked. Obviously

they want a range of age and experience. Um, Edgar was the

only other Person of Color on the show. And so it's

interesting to see that, like, us being one of the youngest

people in the room to also be the only People of Color in the

room is very telling of like, where glass was, but also where

glass might be moving. I don't think the show's representative

of what every hot shop looks like, but the fact that like, we

exist, and that opportunity was given to us, that we're getting

this publicity and people are seeing the potential that we

hold in the types of conversations, the original

designs, concepts, the cultural fusion that we bring to the

table. I think the audience really was captivated by that

and then yeah, some people were struggling with like, what is

with this like, Eurocentric conversation? Because

glassblowing-a lot of its history is Eurocentric, and so

we'll continue to put that on a pedestal and, yeah, that does

hinder, having a wider vision of what the potential really is.

It felt like the pieces where you were most trying to

bring in aspects of your culture, or things that were new

to folks in the glass world, like that was immediately cast

off as, "Oh, this is childish. This is amateur. This is not

art." And I was like, sitting there, like burning up, and I

wasn't even in the room. And so I just want to say like, I

totally see you. And, yeah, that was, um, I'm glad that you were

able to have that experience and like, have the world see more of

your art. And I'm excited to see more and more of what you said

of this sort of rising movement within the glass world that is

more dynamic, younger, kind of pushing the boundary of

contemporary glass art.

Yeah, thank you for saying that. And sharing that because

it is kind of hard to pick up on those nuances when you're

watching a reality TV show, and so much of our conversation

never made it to Netflix, right? And so, yeah, it's interesting

to hear that you were able to pick up on that, because, again,

a lot of what was actually exchanged during those

critiques, were not publicized. And I think there's reason for

that, right? Like, there definitely was more that I had

to say. But they also have to think about the optics of the

show. And if there's too much serious criticism on the judges

and the validity of the judges opinions and thoughts on things,

then that kind of starts to chip away at the integrity of the

whole competition and the whole show. So, you know, those are

the things that I kind of had to weigh out in, you know, things

that I still, you know, I wonder I'm, like 10 years from now,

like, when can I really spill the tea on this?

Yeah, when's that NDA run out? Anyways, so this is a

podcast about video games. [laughing] [music break]

Tell us like, what is your history with video games? What

role have video games played in your life?

That's a good one. Um, people don't really ask me this

question. You know, like, people are just like, "You're a

glassblower. You're an artist." So this is a really unique place

that I'm in right now on a video game podcast. Even telling my

friends and family they were like, "You? Why you?" But video

games, it's huge. It's everywhere. Games are important,

because that's just part of human life. We-even when we go

to school and play recess, like we're playing, playing and

interacting and playing out different roles, different

boundaries, different rules, different goals, like all of

that's super important. Um, I, I will say like, one of my

earliest memories of like a video game experience that I

really enjoyed that was, like, consistent, was probably Late

Middle School. While I was in Japan for the summer, like, I

spent many of my summers in Japan. And I was hanging out

with my cousin and he was playing Grand Theft Auto. And

like, it was just such a stark clash of like, Japanese culture

and like American culture, and like, me being the person to

explain to him like, why the motive of the game is to kill

somebody and then to like, get this prostitute and then collect

this and like, you know, like

Oh, God, welcome to America.

Yeah, like, why are we bashing cars? What are these

weapons like guns are not even legal in Japan so like, the

concept of gun is-

Oh geeze.

Right? So, so that was like an interesting moment. And

that was also like the summer where I was like, super into

like getting into hip hop and r&b. And I'm trying to like

translate all these like, Jay Z, Eminem, like Kanye lyrics to

him. So there was