This week, we're joined by molten glass sculptor and artist Momoko Schafer (she/her)! Momo starred in season 1 of Netflix's glassblowing competition show Blown Away, and also founded Self Love Social Club, a QTBIPOC-led platform for your healing journey!
This is definitely Momo's first video game podcast, and we're stoked to have her. We talk about gaming culture through the lens (lol, glass, get it?) of an artist, the growing popularity of Twitch and possibilities in the medium of streaming, mobile gaming, gaming as pop culture, and so much more!
Meanwhile, your co-hosts can't wait to tell you about our sparkling new PATREON! We're psyched to build community with you and hope you'll join us. We also read our first LISTENER EMAIL!?!? Also, BUGSNAX. Omg, this is a can't-miss episode.
Find Momo Schafer on IG: https://www.instagram.com/glassymomo/
Donate to the Fundraiser for Black Mental Health: https://ioby.org/project/easy-activism-fundraising-black-mental-health
About Pixel Therapy
New episodes drop every other Tuesday. Learn more at pixeltherapypod.com or follow us on social media @pixeltherapypod. If you like what you hear, please take a moment to rate us, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts (or your listening app of choice) & subscribe! Want more? Join our little community over on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/pixeltherapypod
This is a really unique place that I'm in right now on a
Momo:video game podcast. Even telling my friends and family, they're
Momo:like "You? Why you?? But video games, it's huge. It's
Momo:everywhere. Games are important because that's just part of
Momo:human life. We grow-even when we go to school and play recess,
Momo:like we're playing, playing and interacting and playing out
Momo:different roles, different boundaries, different rules,
Momo:different goals, like all of that's super important. [music
Momo:break]
Jamie:Welcome to Pixel Therapy, the video game podcast where we
Jamie:look at the games we play through the lens of the player,
Jamie:where what you play is just as important as how you play it,
Jamie:and where emotional intelligence is a critical stat. Every other
Jamie:week, we bring on a guest who may or may not consider
Jamie:themselves a gamer to discuss one of the games that made them
Jamie:and changed them, and all the feelings they have about our
Jamie:favorite pastime. I'm your co-host, Jamie, pronouns
Jamie:she/her,
Spencer:And I'm your co-host, Spencer, pronouns they/them.
Jamie:And this is Pixel Therapy. So pull up an armchair,
Jamie:feel free to lie down on the couch, and let's talk about our
Jamie:feelings. Spencer, today, we need to start with some
Jamie:housekeeping.
Spencer:First, okay-when you say housekeeping? The first
Spencer:thing I think of is Dusa, from Hades with her feather duster?
Jamie:Yes, yeah. So just imagine I'm Dusa. And the
Jamie:feather duster is all of the shit we need to say to our
Jamie:audience. So first, we want to start with a big thank you to
Jamie:everyone who came through on our request to share a pic of you
Jamie:listening to the podcast and tagging us on social media. Oh
Jamie:my gosh, it was so nice to see everyone doing that. And just
Jamie:really great to like, actually get to see some of the people
Jamie:who are listening to us, you know. We just talk into these
Jamie:microphones, and it goes out into the interwebs.
Spencer:So lonely.
Jamie:And it was [laughs] it is a little lonely. So it was
Jamie:really nice to see people responding to that and actually
Jamie:get to see some of our audience. Thank you so much for doing it
Jamie:to those of you who did, and we'd love to continue to see it.
Jamie:So yeah, if you're listening to the podcast, you want to send us
Jamie:a screenshot and say hi, we would love to say hi back and it
Jamie:just helps us see our community and continue to build community,
Jamie:which is one of the main reasons we started this podcast. Second,
Jamie:we've been saying y'all could email us since day one. And
Jamie:we're so excited to share that someone took us up on that
Jamie:offer, and sent us this awesome email that Spencer is going to
Jamie:read to you right now. Spencer, do you want to read this email?
Spencer:I would love to read it. From our only fan. [both
Spencer:laugh] Just kidding. But like, it's so yeah, it was really
Spencer:exciting to receive an email. Um, okay, so the subject line is
Spencer:"Assigned gamer at birth", and this is from Nate G. It says
Spencer:"Hello," exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation
Spencer:point. "I am so excited to be writing into you. First of all,
Spencer:y'all are going to be big and you don't even know it." Oh my
Spencer:god. That's so sweet.
Jamie:But maybe I know it. You know, I know it.
Spencer:Yeah. I mean, you got to manifest. "Finding your
Spencer:podcast has been so interesting fter falling out of the habit
Spencer:f gaming for several years. The aming landscape has exploded in
Spencer:he years I was gone. I played ideo games regularly as a kid
Jamie:I think that's a good "ugh", right?
Jamie:lash teenager. And this podcast s such an accessible way back
Jamie:n now that I'm interested in ekindling the hobby again." Oh,
Jamie:my gosh. Oh, what? I want to know what he's playing. Okay.
Jamie:"Also, that it's discussin gender and mental health an
Jamie:just disects these brilliant y intersectional topics the
Jamie:e games are addressing, like, ug
Spencer:Good "ugh". "Games are works of art that can have
Spencer:hundreds of people involved in their creation." True. "And I
Spencer:feel like your show gives them the full analysis and critique
Spencer:that they deserve." Aww. "I wanted to write in with a small
Spencer:story about something I experienced at work the other
Spencer:day." Oh my god, so that was just a gassing us up paragraph.
Spencer:Like thank you.
Jamie:I'm blushing.
Spencer:Oh my gosh, okay, there's more. "I wanted to write
Spencer:in with a small story about something I experienced at work
Spencer:the other day. I mentioned in passing that I learned the NATO
Spencer:alphabet from playing Call of Duty. One of my co-workers
Spencer:responded with something along the lines of and I quote, 'Oh, I
Spencer:would have never known that you were a gamer.'" Ah! Okay. "I
Spencer:just found the comment interesting. I'm a trans guy,
Spencer:and they're all aware of that." Parentheses. "I'm the only one
Spencer:at work with my pronouns on zoom lol" Oh my god, that's such a
Spencer:trans mood. It's like "oh my god, we're inclusive. Like
Spencer:everyone put your pronouns in your bios," and it's like just
Spencer:the trans people who do, and like "oh great, we just outed
Spencer:ourselves for you. Amazing." Okay, anyway. "I just found the
Spencer:comment interesting. I'm a trans guy, and they're all aware of
Spencer:that. But I wonder if the assumption comes from a deeper
Spencer:place or not. My biased assumption is that everyone
Spencer:probably grew up playing video games. So I wonder whether or
Spencer:not others either don't have the same assumption or assume
Spencer:differently because of my identity, or because I don't
Spencer:seem quote unquote, butch. Or rather assume that there are
Spencer:certain types of games I would and wouldn't play COD not being
Spencer:one of them. Though, if I'm being honest, I'm dying to play
Spencer:Dream Daddy. Ahahahaha. Love you and thanks for being here. Nate.
Spencer:pronouns he/they." Oh my god. Okay, yeah. Thank you. Um, wow.
Spencer:Yeah. So I think it's interesting. Like, oh, first-Did
Spencer:you have any thoughts?
Jamie:That's okay. You can speak first.
Spencer:No, I just, like this idea of how you look somehow
Spencer:translates to like, the type of music you like, and the types of
Spencer:games you play.
Jamie:Yeah.
Spencer:I'm like, I just think that that's, that's interesting.
Spencer:Like, he's saying that he's someone who doesn't seem butch
Spencer:on. So maybe people look at him and think-what he's too
Spencer:something to not be into COD? And also I feel like, with COD
Spencer:specifically, there's almost this-kind of like, with bands or
Spencer:like things that men can be like, protective over-like, it's
Spencer:almost like you have to prove like, "Oh, you play Call of
Spencer:Duty? Okay. Like, what year did each one come out? And who was
Spencer:the director of each game? And like, what was the studio
Spencer:responsible?"
Jamie:Yeah. It's so silly. Yeah, just the fact that I mean,
Jamie:we've talked a lot about how even the concept of like being a
Jamie:gamer is so gendered. And then like, yeah, Call of Duty being
Jamie:this quote, unquote, hyper masculine game. It's just-it's
Jamie:all ridiculous. Like anybody can find something in Call of Duty
Jamie:that they enjoy. It's, it's, it's competition. It's team
Jamie:building if you're playing multiplayer. They have really
Jamie:fun, action packed campaigns, like anybody can get into that.
Jamie:And yet, it's like, ohhhh. I really like what Nate said about
Jamie:how they assume that, like, everyone grew up playing video
Jamie:games, because I feel like pretty much everyone did.
Spencer:Yeah.
Jamie:Like everyone gets their hands on a video game at some
Jamie:point in their life. And we just-Yeah, I don't know why we
Jamie:want to pretend like it's something that only some people
Jamie:do as a hobby. Or like, only some people have a right to it.
Jamie:Why? Why isn't it just as mainstream is like, saying you
Jamie:watched a Disney movie as a kid? Like, anybody can be into this
Jamie:shit. You don't have to fall into some specific category. And
Jamie:there shouldn't be shock when someone says that they are into
Jamie:it.
Spencer:Yeah. Like, even if you've played a game, like a
Spencer:mobile game, like a Jackbox game or like an online, one of those
Spencer:like quiz games, or, like, you could argue that any thing
Spencer:interactive, like what's like, what's a video game? Like, if
Spencer:you play Candy Crush on your phone, like, is that a game?
Spencer:Like, I feel like it is.
Jamie:Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why we need to put it in a
Jamie:hierarchy.
Spencer:Yeah. I also really like the way um, I'm glad that
Spencer:he said that, like, he feels like it's an accessible way to
Spencer:get back in now that he's kind of rekindling his connection to
Spencer:games.
Jamie:Yeah. Welcome back.
Spencer:Yeah. Like, welcome back. I feel like it ties in
Spencer:with, uh, we'll get, we'll get to this. But the guest we had on
Spencer:this episode, we kind of talk about entering, re-entering the
Spencer:video game industry. And I think, it can be really
Spencer:overwhelming if you haven't been in it for a while, like, and
Spencer:that's part of what makes it so hard to, to figure out where to
Spencer:start. But I just-I'm just-I love that he said that, because
Spencer:I think that that's, like you said, part of why we're doing
Spencer:it. So thank you, Nate.
Jamie:Yeah, thank you, Nate. Yeah, between Nate's email and
Jamie:the people saying hi to us on, on social media. It's, yeah,
Jamie:we-One of the main reasons that Spencer and I started this
Jamie:podcast is that we knew that there were more people out there
Jamie:playing video games, who weren't straight white cis men, that,
Jamie:you know, they dominate the media, the gaming media
Jamie:landscape, and we knew there were people out there playing
Jamie:games who didn't fit into that category. And we wanted to have
Jamie:conversations with them and get to know them. So community-like
Jamie:getting to know other people in that, who are doing that who
Jamie:don't meet that definition, has been a goal from the beginning
Jamie:and having a community with them has been a goal from the
Jamie:beginning and so kind of to that end, our third big housekeeping
Jamie:item that we wanted to bring to y'all today is that we are
Jamie:officially launching a Patreon.
Spencer:Ooooo Patreon.
Jamie:Yeah, Pixel Therapy is officially launching a Patreon.
Jamie:It's patreon.com/pixeltherapypod. The
Jamie:entry level tier is just $2 a month. And that gets you a
Jamie:monthly bonus episode featuring Spencer and I deep diving on
Jamie:various video game topics. So if you do really like hearing us
Jamie:babble about video games, this is the place to go.
Spencer:For those Co-Op Mode episodes. We-Yes, we did a
Spencer:Co-Op, we did what was called a Co-Op Mode episode. And it was
Spencer:just the two of us kind of like going in and getting to know
Spencer:each other in some ways and sharing with you like just sort
Spencer:of, outside of the interview space, just kind of like really
Spencer:having some, some therapy on how we think about and interact with
Spencer:games and the industry around it.
Jamie:Yeah, 100%. And we wanted to keep doing them. And this
Jamie:feels like a great way to do it, because they are meant to be
Jamie:really a conversation between us and our community. And so that's
Jamie:what we're going to use the Patreon space for. All the money
Jamie:that we make through the Patreon is going to go back into
Jamie:sustaining the long term viability of the show by helping
Jamie:to cover our software, equipment and marketing costs. And most
Jamie:importantly our guest fees because we do compensate all of
Jamie:the guests that we bring onto the show for their time. And
Jamie:that's something that's really important to us. So by
Jamie:supporting us on Patreon, you're just ensuring we can continue to
Jamie:produce the podcast long term.
Spencer:Yeah.
Jamie:Of course, you're absolutely welcome in the Pixel
Jamie:Therapy community, regardless of whether you support us on
Jamie:Patreon. But this just is another way for us to see you
Jamie:and connect with you. And as an extra little bonus, the first 20
Jamie:Patreon subscribers will get a nice little sticker featuring
Jamie:our Pixel Therapy album artwork. So if you're interested and you
Jamie:have the means, get over there, patreon.com/pixeltherapypod and
Jamie:subscribe. We can't wait to connect with you all on there.
Spencer:That is right. And we also can't wait to see those
Spencer:stickers out in the wild.
Jamie:Yeah
Spencer:Put it on your PS5
Jamie:Put it on your PS5. Put it on your laptop. Put it on
Jamie:your forehead and just walk around. Or on your mask, on your
Jamie:facial covering as you go out there into the COVID-world of
Jamie:COVID.
Spencer:Yeah, On your water bottle. Put it on your friend's
Spencer:water bottle. Put it on your car.
Jamie:Really, really anywhere you might place a sticker, I
Jamie:think you'll be able to place these stickers. It's a pretty
Jamie:standard sticker arrangement. And it looks good. It matches
Jamie:with everything really. That Pixel Therapy album artwork.
Spencer:Yeah. Courtesy of our amazing artist Zar. Just by the
Spencer:way they can be found @jellodemon on Instagram. They
Spencer:are amazing.
Jamie:Yeah. Yeah Zar does excellent work. Thank you so
Jamie:much, Zar. Whew-That was a lot of updates. It's almost like
Jamie:we're a real podcast now or something.
Spencer:I know. Wow. We have news.
Jamie:Oh my gosh, oh, my gosh, I just have so much to say. But
Jamie:Spencer, let's give the people what they really want. Which is
Jamie:to continue to hear us talking. What do you-What are you
Jamie:playing, Spencer?
Spencer:Yeah, so-Okay, I'm playing a lot of things. Um,
Spencer:there's one thing, actually, that is, I feel like this kind
Spencer:of counts as a game. But basically, you know, I, I am
Spencer:both blessed and cursed to have a job right now, just because
Spencer:there's a lot of like Zoom. And it can be very taxing. It's just
Spencer:like the lack of, of being in a space physically with others.
Spencer:There's something that gets lost in translation, I feel like,
Spencer:with the lack of body language, and just communication in
Spencer:general feel slower and harder, especially for new people who
Spencer:have joined the team during the pandemic over the past eight
Spencer:months. Like it's just been harder for them to feel
Spencer:connected to the group and to kind of, you know, have those
Spencer:little interactions that sort of build up into a relationship
Spencer:that you develop with someone you're just meeting for the
Spencer:first time. And anyway, long story short, the company
Spencer:decided, Okay, we're gonna come up with a way to help everyone
Spencer:socialize. And the software-they found this software and it's
Spencer:called Gather.Town. You can check it out on your browser.
Spencer:But essentially, it is this 8-bit, 2D world that you log
Spencer:into. And you create your little avatars, basically with the
Spencer:same, like unity based building blocks that Stardew Valley was
Spencer:built with, so the styling of the pixel art is-it looks like
Spencer:you're in Stardew Valley.
Jamie:Oh, my God, dream come true.
Spencer:Yeah. And it's-essentially it's like for,
Spencer:it's for organizations, companies, etc. to kind of
Spencer:recreate in a digital space, the feeling of being at a conference
Spencer:or in a social setting and the way it works is like your camera
Spencer:and microphone are on. But as you're walking around, it'll
Spencer:turn on and off depending on your proximity to other people.
Spencer:So if you walk up to a group of people, you'll just like, enter
Spencer:their conversation. Um, and so-Okay, so here's the thing.
Spencer:Like, at first it was, it was cute, like, I was like walking
Spencer:around and there was like, these kind of pixelated versions of
Spencer:the, like there's a canal that goes by our office. And so there
Spencer:was like, this walkway and the grassy area and then the water.
Spencer:And like these kind of, like pixelated versions of, of our
Spencer:beer garden that we had and like a tea-These robots that would
Spencer:make us tea. I'm sorry, I work for like a tech company. I'm
Spencer:sorry. It's terrible. I know. [both laughing]
Jamie:Robots that make you tea? Yeah, I think my brain just shut
Jamie:off.
Spencer:But, um, [coughs] excuse me. It's a nasal drip, I
Spencer:swear. Um, it was cool. And cute. But it was almost like, I
Spencer:feel like, I'm pretty introverted. And so when there
Spencer:were big social, kind of company gatherings like that, it would
Spencer:kind of be my MO to sort of make the rounds, mostly do people
Spencer:watching, mostly talk to people that I know. But trying to just
Spencer:do like, quick, like, "Oh, hey, great to see you" like, just
Spencer:kind of catch up a little bit, and then keep moving. Um, but
Spencer:you could kind of-I think, again, like in, in meet space,
Spencer:like, you can kind of feel the tone of a conversation before
Spencer:you walk up. And you can decide if you want to engage or not
Spencer:without necessarily disrupting the flow of it. And in this
Spencer:world, it was like, you would just be dropped, like no
Spencer:context, like a, like a video starting like, like, there's no,
Spencer:like walking up and trying to see what they're talking about
Spencer:and then coming in. It's like, all of a sudden, you're just
Spencer:dropped into a room with people essentially.
Jamie:And is it like, Can you see the individuals talking?
Jamie:Like, you can see their, their video?
Spencer:You don't see their video until you get close enough
Spencer:to the group of people. So like, you would see these like groups
Spencer:of like huddles of pixelated people. And you would be like,
Spencer:oh, like, it's that a closed group? You could see their names
Spencer:and stuff, but you couldn't see the videos until you got close
Spencer:enough.
Jamie:So you can't-it's not like you can walk up and like as
Jamie:you're walking up sort of eavesdrop a little bit on the
Jamie:conversation
Spencer:Right, exactly
Jamie:And then decide if it's something you can pop into or
Jamie:not.
Spencer:Right, you just awkwardly appear. So I felt like
Spencer:I just-
Jamie:I'm sweating.
Spencer:Yeah, I just started like, running like, I was just
Jamie:Just like racing laps around the map.
Spencer:Yeah. Like, I just didn't want to, because I would
Spencer:pop in and everyone would either like, stop talking and be like,
Spencer:[pauses for a beat] [laughs]
Jamie:Oh, no. Oh, no.
Spencer:Or they just keep going. And you're like, you feel
Spencer:like, you feel like you're intruding because it's like,
Jamie:Oh my god, yeah. And then you just leave.
Spencer:Yeah, you just leave.
Jamie:The video just comes up and then just goes away. Oh no.
Spencer:So what I would do is I would make rounds. And then I
Spencer:would periodically change the appearance of my character so
Spencer:that people wouldn't be like, Oh, it's the same person who
Spencer:just keeps like, coming by our group. So like, Okay, I guess
Spencer:what I want to say is I really respect the technology. And I, I
Spencer:love this idea of sort of gamifying like a- like I love t
Spencer:e spirit of it. There were l ke little mini games in it. U
Jamie:Yeah
Jamie:, but I think it just, it kind o magnified what makes for aw
Spencer:But having to meet strangers in that space was
Spencer:ward situations at company ga herings in general. Um, I th
Spencer:nk if it was just my team. It would be more fun because we
Spencer:already know each other. And there's that sort of casual
Spencer:ess between us all.
Spencer:horrifying.
Jamie:Oh my gosh. Yeah. So if-How large is your-like how
Jamie:many people were at this thing?
Spencer:Um, so it was optional. So there were like, I want to
Spencer:say 200 people in there.
Jamie:Oh, my gosh. Okay. Yeah. So when you were originally
Jamie:describing this to me-cuz we were chatting about this, just
Jamie:socially, you know, we do have conversations that aren't
Jamie:recorded. I swear. When we were chatting about this, like a week
Jamie:ago. I was like, Oh, that sounds like a really interesting idea.
Jamie:Because well, for some context, my organization is only about 50
Jamie:people. And so we've been trying to have Zoom socials that are
Jamie:just like, pull my fucking teeth out of my head.
Spencer:Yeah
Jamie:Literally just like 30-40 people getting into a Zoom Room
Jamie:and like two people are talking and everyone else is just
Jamie:smiling uncomfortably at the camera. And then that happens
Jamie:for an hour and then people log off.
Spencer:Yeah.
Jamie:And what I've always appreciated about socials is
Jamie:like, you know, since it's a fairly small organization,
Jamie:everyone knows each other to some extent, right, but you
Jamie:still have, I don't know if cliques is the right word, but
Jamie:you still have groups of people who work more closely together
Jamie:who have a deeper relationship. And so when you go to a
Jamie:gathering, like those groups are kind of broken off. And then
Jamie:people will kind of like, say hi to each other across the groups,
Jamie:but like, you still have like your core group that you're,
Jamie:you're kind of rolling in with and you're chatting with, and
Jamie:you're rolling out with that, you know, pretty well. And so
Jamie:what appealed to me when you were describing the software was
Jamie:like, Oh, that sounds like it would actually allow the people
Jamie:who know each other better, to kind of like, get in their own
Jamie:group, but you could still kind of-you could still mingle and
Jamie:say hi to other people, and still have like a base to come
Jamie:back to you and talk to. So it's not this weird thing where like,
Jamie:only the people who feel comfortable talking to everyone
Jamie:in the Zoom Room, which is what we end up with at these Zoom
Jamie:socials that we've had, you know, there's a handful of
Jamie:people that feel comfortable just talking to 30 people, and
Jamie:the other folks who don't are sitting there quietly. It would
Jamie:like allow people to have smaller group conversations.
Spencer:Yeah.
Jamie:And it sounded like-that sounded appealing to me in that
Jamie:context, but what you're describing of like walking up on
Jamie:like strangers and trying to poke your head into their
Jamie:conversations. That sounds like a fucking nightmare. That sounds
Jamie:absolutely so stressful and horrifying.
Spencer:Yeah. Like, I think it is, like it's in theory good for
Spencer:that situation you described, but I think because, like, it's
Spencer:almost like, I wish you could adjust the sensitivity of
Spencer:when-or at least, prompt you? Like, do you want to join this
Spencer:conversation? Yes or no. But the idea that like-because it got to
Spencer:the point where the space just got so saturated, that just
Spencer:walking through the path you would end up accidentally
Spencer:triggering conversations with people because you just moved
Spencer:too close to them.
Jamie:Yeah.
Spencer:But like-They did have this thing called "ghost mode"
Spencer:where you could turn it on and like, basically be like an Among
Spencer:Us ghost where no one can see you, but you can see them.
Jamie:Oh, my gosh, like Clay Aiken. The fly-If I was
Jamie:invisible.
Spencer:Yeah. [sings] "If I was invisible." Yeah. So there's
Spencer:that. Um, I did utilize that a little bit, but then I felt
Spencer:weird. Like I was, eavesdropping. So I kind of just
Spencer:was like, I think I'm good.
Jamie:I think I'm gonna go home now, aka log out of the meeting.
Spencer:Yeah. I met-I saw a couple folks in there that I
Spencer:usually don't run into. But it was also kind of like, "'Hey."
Spencer:"Hey." "Like we're in this world. Isn't that funny?" "Yeah.
Spencer:Okay, um," There's not like any-there's nothing to do. You
Spencer:know, it's not like, we could be like, "oh, let's get a drink and
Spencer:talk" or "Let's go play ping pong or something." Like, it's
Spencer:like-
Jamie:Well you said there is-there were games in there.
Jamie:How did the games work?
Spencer:Okay, so that's the thing it's like, there were
Spencer:games technically, but it was basically like, they would have
Spencer:an external, like, you know, there's this game called
Spencer:dribble.io. And it's like a group game, browser based game.
Spencer:And so essentially, you would go to this little pixelated game
Spencer:table, and you would press like to play, and then it would just
Spencer:load an embedded window of the other website. So you still have
Spencer:like, it's not like it was seamlessly connected, you would
Spencer:still have to build a room on that website, coordinate with
Spencer:whoever you wanted to play with. And then set it up. It was just
Spencer:like-it was just like a window to another browser. It was
Spencer:essentially just like opening a new tab. So it wasn't really
Spencer:like-it wasn't really integrated.
Jamie:The games weren't like built into the platform.
Spencer:Right, yeah.
Jamie:Yeah, I guess what I was envisioning was-when you were
Jamie:originally describing it to me and I was looking at the
Jamie:pictures-I was just envisioning something different. Like, I
Jamie:feel like if you could-and this technology exists, right? Like,
Jamie:I've seen it used in multiplayer games and stuff, right? But like
Jamie:spatial, like the ability to hear things based on your
Jamie:location in the game world. So like, I feel like that would be
Jamie:something they could very-well, I don't want to say very easily.
Jamie:These things are complicated, I am sure. But the technology
Jamie:exists where theoretically, they could set it up where as you're
Jamie:actually, your character on the screen, is walking through the
Jamie:party, as you approach conversations, you can actually
Jamie:hear what those individuals are saying. Something where like as
Jamie:you get closer-same as you would at a party and then that would
Jamie:help you know, like, Is it okay for me to kind of bounce in?
Spencer:Yeah.
Jamie:Or even if they let you talk to people in that way,
Jamie:like, let, all of the audio happen that way and then if
Jamie:you're investing in a conversation you actually join,
Jamie:and you can all see each other's faces.
Spencer:Ooh, I like that.
Jamie:That feels like it would be more seamless.
Spencer:Yeah, like, I'd love that. I mean, honestly, it-like
Spencer:it very much felt like this was in beta. Again, it's
Spencer:Gather.Town. Like definitely check it out. I think it's a
Spencer:cool idea. Like these-it's these fully customizable spaces. I
Spencer:love the sort of integration of like this video game space being
Spencer:a place to translate, like what used to be like real life
Spencer:experiences. I love-I hope that it continues to grow and like
Spencer:you said, like, kind of become more sophisticated in sort of
Spencer:emulating what it's like to be in a real life space. Like,
Spencer:instead of trying to-like I feel like we're always about
Spencer:efficiency, efficiency, like, let's, like, totally transform
Spencer:how we connect. And it's like, I feel like people just want just,
Spencer:like there's something to this kind of organic connection. And,
Spencer:we don't necessarily need to reinvent the wheel like, I
Spencer:think, I think if anything, people are nostalgic for how
Spencer:things used to be and want it to feel more like it used to be.
Jamie:Yeah, yeah, I think that's totally right.
Spencer:Anyway, um, speaking of nostalgia, maybe? And just like,
Spencer:fun. What are you playing?
Jamie:Wow, that was such a smooth transition.
Spencer:Thank you.
Jamie:When we're talking about seamless,
Spencer:Yeah
Jamie:Hitting the nail on the head. No, uh, myself, like
Jamie:yourself, got PS5s. We're one of-We're the lucky-we're some of
Jamie:the lucky ones. The blessed ones.
Spencer:Yeah.
Jamie:We pre-ordered the PS5s as soon as they went up, and we
Jamie:were able to actually get them.
Spencer:It was all thanks to Jamie I did nothing.
Jamie:Well, and I credit my PS5 to @wario64 on Twitter. It's a
Jamie:deals account on Twitter. He tweets out links to deals and
Jamie:stuff when they go up. And he is the only reason that I was able
Jamie:to get a PS5.
Spencer:He's the only reason anyone listening was been able
Spencer:to get a PS5.
Jamie:Pretty much. I feel like, I feel like a lot of people can
Jamie:trace their PS5 purchase back to Wario. So thank you, @wario64
Jamie:and all the good that you do in the world.
Jamie:Yeah, for sure. But, uh, but yeah, that came that came
Spencer:You're a real one.
Spencer:last week in the mail. And I don't know, you know, it's,
Spencer:there's lots to be upset with in the world right now for sure.
Spencer:But last week was kind of like video game Christmas for me a
Spencer:little bit. And I feel like I'm still in kind of the afterglow
Spencer:of that.
Spencer:Yeah.
Jamie:Like, this is the second time I've been able to get a
Jamie:console at launch, which I do consider myself very lucky to be
Jamie:able to do that. And the PS4 was the first one. And it's just,
Jamie:it's just exciting. I don't know, maybe I'm just like a
Jamie:consumer sucker. Suckling at the teat of corporate Sony. I don't
Jamie:know, but, but it's just fun. It's fun to like, have the new
Jamie:thing and to set it up and to get the new games and to play
Jamie:them and it feels exciting, it feels new and fresh. I will say
Jamie:like, one thing that's just so cool about the PS5 is like I was
Jamie:able to plug it in and just unplug my PS4 and just put my
Jamie:PS4 away. Like all of the-all of those games in my backlog on the
Jamie:PS4, I'm gonna be able to play those on my PS5.
Spencer:Did you sync? So you synced them before you unplugged
Spencer:the PS4?
Jamie:I didn't because the-one of the downsides to the PS5 is
Jamie:that it does not have a ton of storage space. It only has about
Jamie:650 gigs of storage space. So what I did is I'm keeping my PS4
Jamie:games on an external hard drive. But I can just plug that into
Jamie:the PS5 and play them right off of that hard drive when I want
Jamie:to.
Spencer:Is that like a special hard drive for the PS4? Or is it
Spencer:just any old hard drive?
Jamie:No, it's a two terabyte Seagate external USB hard drive.
Spencer:Cool.
Jamie:They're like $50. Yeah. So it's pretty easy to do.
Jamie:It-actually, it was the hard drive that I had installed in my
Jamie:PS4. So on the PS4, you could actually swap out the hard drive
Jamie:to expand your storage capacity. So it was a hard drive that I
Jamie:actually had in the PS4.
Spencer:I know this is riveting podcasting.
Jamie:Sorry, is this boring? I don't know. I'm a big fucking
Jamie:nerd. And I like all this stuff, so yeah, I like being able to
Jamie:have all my PS4 games on that. And I like that I've just been
Jamie:able to play on the PS5. And the controller feels really good in
Jamie:my hands like I've been nerding out about the controller. Like
Jamie:it just like feels like it fits in a way that-
Spencer:So heavy
Jamie:Yeah it's, it's got a little bit of weight to it. But
Jamie:yeah, some of the games I've been playing-I played Astro's
Jamie:Playroom, which is like this cute little platforming game.
Jamie:It's only a couple hours long. And it's really like a tech demo
Jamie:for the controller. But it's also kind of a love letter to
Jamie:PlayStation. There's like, all these little-they're these cute
Jamie:little, little white and blue and black robots that are kind
Jamie:of bopping around and they make weird little robot noises. And
Jamie:as you're like moving through the world, you can find all of
Jamie:the robots like acting out different scenes from different
Jamie:PlayStation video games over the years. And it was like, so cool
Jamie:to like, find them and then be like, oh, what game is that?
Jamie:Because it doesn't quite, you know, they're still the robots
Jamie:so you're like, "That looks familiar. What is that? Oh,
Jamie:that's The Last of Us. Oh my gosh."
Spencer:Woah.
Jamie:So that was that was really cute and cool. And, and
Jamie:while it's doing all that, it's like showing you all the cool
Jamie:things that the controller can do. The haptic feedback in the
Jamie:triggers is really impressive. There's-you can get this little
Jamie:turret gun that shoots little balls out and you're like
Jamie:holding down the trigger. And it's like, the trigger is like
Jamie:shaking your finger and you can actually feel the little balls
Jamie:coming out of the gun and stuff like that. It's just really fun.
Spencer:Yeah.
Jamie:It was a fun cute little game. So I played that. I've
Jamie:been playing Miles Morales, the new Spider Man game. I've been
Jamie:playing it in performance mode, which I've never done before. So
Jamie:it's 60 frames per second. 4k resolution and holy shit. Like
Jamie:my eyeballs. I can't go back. I can't go back.
Spencer:What is it like?
Jamie:Fucking smooth. It just looks smooth as hell like is the
Jamie:best way I can describe it. And it's really impressive. I'm
Jamie:really liking that game so far. Not really ready to talk about
Jamie:it yet. I'm only a couple hours in but really liking it so far.
Jamie:But the game that grabbed my heart and my mind and my soul
Jamie:and my body. And my stomach, is Bugsnax.
Spencer:Yes.
Jamie:Thinking, talking about Bugsnax.
Spencer:What's your favorite bugsnack?
Jamie:Favorite bugsnack is probably, hmm. I really like the
Jamie:bunger.
Spencer & Jamie Together:bunger bunger bunger bunger
Jamie:And I really like scoopy banoopy.
Spencer:Okay, I have not met that one yet, but wait, oh,
Spencer:describe bunger for the people.
Jamie:Okay, so bunger is uh-Okay, so first, let's rewind
Jamie:for two seconds. If you don't know what Bugsnax is, go look up
Jamie:the trailer for Bugsnax and just watch it. It's like a three
Jamie:minute trailer. It's so funny and weird and cute. But
Jamie:basically the pitch for Bugsanx is that you are a thing called a
Jamie:grumpus, which is kind of like a little otter bear creature.
Spencer:Little fuzzy guy.
Jamie:A little fuzzy guy. I love that-the game is first
Jamie:person and when you look down, you can see your little belly.
Jamie:You can see a little furry belly. It's so fucking cute.
Spencer:I love it.
Jamie:So you're this thing called a grumpus and you're a
Jamie:reporter. And you've been sent to this place called Snack Tooth
Jamie:Island, where the explorer Lizbert Megafig has discovered
Jamie:these things called bugsnax. And bugsnax are
Spencer:[singing] "Kind of bug and kind of snack"
Jamie:Exactly that. Exactly that. What Spencer is alluding
Jamie:to is there's this wonderful song that plays in the trailer
Jamie:that basically just describes the entire premise of the game,
Jamie:which is why I'm saying go look up the Bugsnax trailer. That's
Jamie:B-u-g-s-n-a-x. Look it up. Watch it. If you don't know what we're
Jamie:talking about, you need to know what we're talking about. So
Jamie:please go look this up and watch this trailer. But bugsnax are
Jamie:food that is like an insect essentially. And so the bunger
Jamie:looks like a little cheeseburger. And he's wrapped
Jamie:up in little paper. And he's got, he's got curly fries for
Jamie:legs.
Spencer:Yeah.
Jamie:And he's got regular fries for little tusks. And he's
Jamie:got big googly eyes.
Spencer:They all have big googly eyes.
Jamie:They all have big googly eyes and kind of like Pokemon
Jamie:they all say their name. And so-and all of their names are
Jamie:like kind of plays on-sometimes it's like hinting towards the
Jamie:insect that they're like, like there's a "pineantula" that
Jamie:crawls around like a tarantula but it's a pineapple. And yeah,
Jamie:the bunger is a burger. And yeah, he wanders around he goes
Jamie:"bunger, bunger, bunger, bunger", and it's just fucking
Jamie:cute but the like slightly-but this game is so fucking weird
Jamie:because it's also slightly horrifying because when people
Jamie:eat the bugsnax, first of all, they have to eat them alive. You
Jamie:can't cook the bugs snacks because it's just food.
Spencer:And the way they describe it is like there's a
Spencer:whole bugsnax mythology and they're like it's weird because
Spencer:they're like, oh you know, it's like there's a scientist you
Spencer:meet, and she's like, "the bugsnax have no organs or seeds
Spencer:or insides like they're just, they're just good." And I'm
Spencer:like, I don't-how-I-[laughs]
Jamie:It's weird. It's weird. It's weird and kind of scary,
Jamie:but when you eat the-
Spencer:There's something unhinged about it, yeah,
Jamie:Yeah, it's well, it's-it like, it's so cute and like nice
Jamie:and pleasant. And like the world it's all like really bright
Jamie:colors and cartoonish. But there's like this weird like-
Spencer:Undercurrent of dread.
Jamie:Exactly. Like there's something constantly needling at
Jamie:your brain about like something about this isn't quite right,
Jamie:because when they eat the bugsnax, it turns parts of their
Jamie:body into the snack.
Spencer:Yeah.
Jamie:So for example, if you eat a bunger, your hand might
Jamie:turn into a curly fry.
Spencer:Mm hmm.
Jamie:And like that can, you can-so you meet different
Jamie:grumpuses on the island. You catch the bugsnax. You feed the
Jamie:bugsnax to the different grumpuses, and you can fully
Jamie:transform them into these kind of horrifying food creations.
Spencer:And they like crave it.
Jamie:They crave it. Yeah, the bugsnax are like addicting. And
Jamie:there's this whole thing. So I actually finished the game. I'm
Jamie:not gonna say anything more about that. Because, yeah, the
Jamie:meta narrative does go there. But there's also like-you get
Jamie:you get to the town, where you're you're expecting to find
Jamie:Lizbert, and instead you just find the self proclaimed mayor
Jamie:of the town, Filbo. And Filbo is sad because when Lizbert left,
Jamie:all of the grumpuses living in the town moved away and went off
Jamie:to do their own things. And he would like to bring them all
Jamie:back. And so the the main story of the game, the main drive of
Jamie:your character, is that you're ultimately trying to find
Jamie:Lizbert. But in doing that, you're bringing all of the the
Jamie:grumpuses, and there's like 12 or so of them, you're bringing
Jamie:them all back to the community, you're getting to know them,
Jamie:you're getting to understand why they left. And they all have
Jamie:really complicated like interpersonal relationships with
Jamie:each other. And it's just really, I don't know, there's
Jamie:like, there's like something really heartwarming in the story
Jamie:too about like, community and how people learn to get along
Jamie:and like use their strengths together to survive. And to
Jamie:build friendship with each other. And like you can-there
Jamie:are things that you can disagree about, but you can still find
Jamie:common ground and I don't know, there's like a really
Jamie:heartwarming, like narrative there kind of underneath all of
Jamie:this other weird silly shit. And it's just really connected with
Jamie:me.
Spencer:Yeah, I've definitely been surprised. I'm also playing
Spencer:it, but I'm not done, like Jamie is, but, um, by the sort of
Spencer:complexity of the characters and the darkness that some of them
Spencer:have. And-
Jamie:Exactly, yeah.
Spencer:-the ways that they, like humans, can betray each
Spencer:other, lie to each other, um, sort of have what might be
Spencer:considered toxic relationships. It's just-I think it's a game
Spencer:that truly appeals to people of a very many, like a whole range
Spencer:of ages and, and backgrounds. Like, it doesn't seem like it's
Spencer:for kids? But I don't know.
Jamie:I think-I'm pretty sure it's rated like E for everyone.
Jamie:And I think it's, it's like one of those things where it's, I
Jamie:don't think it's quite striking a Pixar tone. I don't think is
Jamie:quite what I would say. But it is-it does have a similarity to
Jamie:Pixar in that, like, I feel like kids would enjoy playing Bugsnax
Jamie:because of all the goofy bugs and the snacks and the grumpuses
Jamie:are being silly. And then I think there's like a deeper
Jamie:narrative there for adults to pull out, as well. But yeah,
Jamie:I've been similarly really surprised by the depth. And all
Jamie:of the characters-I just really liked them so much. They feel
Jamie:like complete people. And I wasn't expecting that, you know,
Jamie:based on the trailer, I was really excited for this game
Jamie:because I was like, Oh my gosh, it just looks so cute and silly.
Jamie:And I'm gonna catch these bugs. I'm gonna feed them and it looks
Jamie:weird. And I love that. And then like, it's all of those things.
Jamie:And it has like, this deep-these deep characters-that I'm really
Jamie:connected to. So it really took me by surprise. It's a really,
Jamie:really good game. Really fun.
Spencer:And it's queer.
Jamie:Yes. Yeah. There's-
Spencer:Canonically.
Jamie:Yes, exactly. There's a couple different gay couples in
Jamie:the game. And a non-binary character. And I just-I like
Jamie:that a lot. It's a really cute game.
Spencer:Cute.
Jamie:Well, I guess we should probably get to our interview.
Jamie:And I'm pretending to be down about that. Really excited for
Jamie:this interview that we have.
Spencer:We could talk about Bugsnax for hours.
Jamie:Yeah, that's really the issue. That's really the issue.
Jamie:So today, the interview that we have for you is with Momoko
Jamie:Schafer. She goes by Momo. She's from Boston. She is an artist,
Jamie:primarily a glass artist, known for sculpting molten glass as
Jamie:her main tool of expression.
Spencer:NBD.
Jamie:Yeah, yes, it's no big deal.
Spencer:It's an ancient art form and no big deal.
Jamie:You're literally pulling fire out of an oven and
Jamie:sculpting it but-
Spencer:It's fine.
Jamie:No problem. And Momo was featured on Netflix's original
Jamie:series Blown Away, which is about a glass blowing
Jamie:competition. But the main reason that we had her on the podcast
Jamie:is we think she's an interesting person. We think she does
Jamie:awesome artwork. And she's-as an artist, she describes herself as
Jamie:someone who's incredibly curious about art and other forms of
Jamie:expression. She doesn't consider herself a gamer actually, though
Jamie:she is really interested in the world of games. She does play
Jamie:mobile games, which we talked with her about, but she just has
Jamie:a deep fascination with gaming and the gaming community. And as
Jamie:someone who's trying to do art, in this time of pandemic, she's
Jamie:also been really branching out more into streaming and looking
Jamie:for new ways to showcase her art online. And so the gaming space
Jamie:and the twitch community space is something that's really
Jamie:gotten on her radar recently. And she, she's just like a
Jamie:really smart, interesting person who's really curious. And we had
Jamie:a really-the conversation kind of goes places and goes all over
Jamie:the place. And we talk about all these aspects of the gaming
Jamie:community kind of through the eyes of a non-gamer.
Spencer:Yeah, yeah, I think that she's a great example of
Spencer:someone for whom gaming and gamers-like she's played games,
Spencer:they've interacted with her life and been around in different
Spencer:ways that she talks about in the interview. Like, I liked her
Spencer:story about playing GTA as a way to connect with a cousin of hers
Spencer:living in Japan and trying to learn about American culture.
Spencer:And it's very, like, totally out of, what's the word like,
Spencer:exaggerated and ridiculous. Yeah, as GTA is an example of
Spencer:that. Yeah. And so you know, having her perspective, as an
Spencer:artist, as someone working with a medium that is so ancient and
Spencer:so kind of tactile and based in very physical-in a physical
Spencer:manner. I think having her for a discussion on video games, and
Spencer:this whole digital space that's being cultivated in this
Spencer:pandemic era is really, really cool. But yeah, if you want to
Spencer:see more of Momo, you can check her out on blown away. It's like
Spencer:the glassblowing version of Chopped. It's pretty intense.
Spencer:And she has some really distinctive and cool art style.
Spencer:And yeah, without further ado, we're just really excited to
Spencer:bring you this conversation with Momo Schafer. [music break]
Spencer:Momo, hi, thank you so much for joining us. It's so great to see
Spencer:you.
Momo:Happy to be here. Pretty good start to a Saturday.
Spencer:Oh my gosh, yes. I couldn't agree more. Um, to
Spencer:start, you know, for folks who may not be familiar with you,
Spencer:with your work? Would you care to say a little bit about who
Spencer:you are and what you're up to?
Momo:Yeah, I guess primarily I'm an artist. My name is Momoko
Momo:Schafer, most people call me Momo. I'm also an educator so I
Momo:teach classes. Prior to COVID, I was doing a lot of like selling
Momo:glass and stuff like that. But now, if you check me out now,
Momo:I'm kind of doing a lot of other things, digital drawings,
Momo:producing videos for my Patreon, writing, all kinds of stuff so.
Spencer:From your website, you talk about how your work
Spencer:specifically is focused on helping communities create a
Spencer:really tangible relationship with glass art, I think
Spencer:something that people might not know is that, you know, getting
Spencer:into glass isn't exactly easy. For one thing, it's not the most
Spencer:accessible mainstream art form. And for another thing, it's
Spencer:pretty expensive to have access to the materials to the
Spencer:equipment. So can you talk about-talk more about how your
Spencer:lass work and your community ork kind of intersect and what
Spencer:t is about, like how you're reaking down these barriers?
Momo:Yeah, I mean, this is something that's a continual
Momo:process, especially being someone who's a budding artist
Momo:and very much in the entry point of this industry. Very recently,
Momo:I've kind of gained some prominence and with that
Momo:prominence, I'm trying to make sure that I take advantage of
Momo:that platform and speak up on that because frankly, the glass
Momo:industry is pretty archaic. And there's a lot of things that
Momo:like, haven't changed for a very long time that really need to
Momo:change. And even in past movements, like #metoo, and
Momo:stuff, like, I didn't see any change. It just breezed right
Momo:over and with the Black Lives Matter movement happening right
Momo:now, it has to change. It really has to change.
Spencer:Yeah what you said about how movements like, you
Spencer:know, the recent, refocusing in on police brutality against
Spencer:Black Americans and how you said that kind of just goes over the
Spencer:glass community and isn't really something that these artists
Spencer:might think is relevant to them because they're not, you know,
Spencer:they're not political. They're just artists. I mean, we don't
Spencer:have the option to separate ourselves from our art. I think
Spencer:as, you know, as people of color, as a I mean, I was gonna
Spencer:say as women but I forgot I'm not a woman anymore. So, all
Spencer:right, do you identify? How do you identify, Momo? I don't want
Spencer:to speak for you. But, you know, I was wondering if you had more
Spencer:to say about that kind of relationship between, you know,
Spencer:artists and this contemporary moment we're in and how, like,
Spencer:you're, I think, part of like a really great, just sort of this
Spencer:waking up to the fact that we are all connected.
Momo:Mm hmm. Yeah, absolutely. I'm seeing a lot of people
Momo:having more conversations. I'm, I'm obviously somebody, as
Momo:somebody who's biracial, as somebody who's queer, this has
Momo:always been on my mind. I do identify as a woman, and I'm,
Momo:you know, I'm very, like, in a heteronormative world, I blend
Momo:in very well. So that doesn't really come up as much. But me
Momo:being very Asian passing is a very consistent thing. So
Momo:anytime anything racial even came up, like people would look
Momo:to me as if I would be the spokesperson for all People of
Momo:Color. All of them. Because truly, like it's me, and maybe,
Momo:like, very recently, somebody reached out to me saying that
Momo:they wanted to hire a Black glassblower in like the Boston
Momo:area. And it was so painful to like, have to try to do that
Momo:search, knowing that the options would be extremely limited,
Momo:because glass has not made itself accessible to a ton of
Momo:communities, especially like Black, POC people.
Spencer:Mm hmm. So you were on a Netflix show called Blown
Spencer:Away. It was a reality show. And essentially, for folks who may
Spencer:not know, it brought a bunch of glass workers from all over the
Spencer:world, right? together to compete in a big hot shop. And
Spencer:Momo, your work was, at the time, you were focused on
Spencer:creating work that had to do with dreams. And folks should
Spencer:definitely look up Momo's glass art. It's, it's beautiful, it's
Spencer:evocative, I think that it-there's a certain playfulness
Spencer:to it. It really sort of takes glass into an unexpected place,
Spencer:into a fun place, into an accessible place. And before I
Spencer:even met you, I remember watching Blown Away and feeling
Spencer:this immediate, like this sharp feeling in my chest, because I
Spencer:honestly felt like a lot of the judging that you received was
Spencer:racist. You were, I think you may have been the only non-White
Spencer:person in that room of competitors. And it was very
Spencer:clear from the way the judging was done that the types of
Spencer:things that they were looking for, and, and trying to pass
Spencer:across as like universal truths of what is good glass art, all
Spencer:had to do with very archaic and some might say, old fashioned,
Spencer:but like in a shitty way of thinking-like it was very
Spencer:Eurocentric, I would say, in its judging, and I was wondering,
Spencer:like, you compose yourself with such dignity. And I felt like
Spencer:your personality came through. You-like you were in there as a
Spencer:young person. Just like killing it. And I had such a ton of
Spencer:respect for you. But I just was wondering, like, Did it feel
Spencer:weird? Like, did you-did you feel like shit was weird?
Momo:I mean, just from the very beginning, right? Like, this was
Momo:a reality TV show. And obviously, they want to make it
Momo:as interesting as possible. And so having a diverse cast of
Momo:characters, if I can all of us artists characters for the show,
Momo:like that's definitely a priority. So I could, you know,
Momo:obviously, I kind of was-that was in the back of my mind, when
Momo:I'm thinking of like, why it is that I'm being picked. Obviously
Momo:they want a range of age and experience. Um, Edgar was the
Momo:only other Person of Color on the show. And so it's
Momo:interesting to see that, like, us being one of the youngest
Momo:people in the room to also be the only People of Color in the
Momo:room is very telling of like, where glass was, but also where
Momo:glass might be moving. I don't think the show's representative
Momo:of what every hot shop looks like, but the fact that like, we
Momo:exist, and that opportunity was given to us, that we're getting
Momo:this publicity and people are seeing the potential that we
Momo:hold in the types of conversations, the original
Momo:designs, concepts, the cultural fusion that we bring to the
Momo:table. I think the audience really was captivated by that
Momo:and then yeah, some people were struggling with like, what is
Momo:with this like, Eurocentric conversation? Because
Momo:glassblowing-a lot of its history is Eurocentric, and so
Momo:we'll continue to put that on a pedestal and, yeah, that does
Momo:hinder, having a wider vision of what the potential really is.
Spencer:It felt like the pieces where you were most trying to
Spencer:bring in aspects of your culture, or things that were new
Spencer:to folks in the glass world, like that was immediately cast
Spencer:off as, "Oh, this is childish. This is amateur. This is not
Spencer:art." And I was like, sitting there, like burning up, and I
Spencer:wasn't even in the room. And so I just want to say like, I
Spencer:totally see you. And, yeah, that was, um, I'm glad that you were
Spencer:able to have that experience and like, have the world see more of
Spencer:your art. And I'm excited to see more and more of what you said
Spencer:of this sort of rising movement within the glass world that is
Spencer:more dynamic, younger, kind of pushing the boundary of
Spencer:contemporary glass art.
Momo:Yeah, thank you for saying that. And sharing that because
Momo:it is kind of hard to pick up on those nuances when you're
Momo:watching a reality TV show, and so much of our conversation
Momo:never made it to Netflix, right? And so, yeah, it's interesting
Momo:to hear that you were able to pick up on that, because, again,
Momo:a lot of what was actually exchanged during those
Momo:critiques, were not publicized. And I think there's reason for
Momo:that, right? Like, there definitely was more that I had
Momo:to say. But they also have to think about the optics of the
Momo:show. And if there's too much serious criticism on the judges
Momo:and the validity of the judges opinions and thoughts on things,
Momo:then that kind of starts to chip away at the integrity of the
Momo:whole competition and the whole show. So, you know, those are
Momo:the things that I kind of had to weigh out in, you know, things
Momo:that I still, you know, I wonder I'm, like 10 years from now,
Momo:like, when can I really spill the tea on this?
Spencer:Yeah, when's that NDA run out? Anyways, so this is a
Spencer:podcast about video games. [laughing] [music break]
Spencer:Tell us like, what is your history with video games? What
Spencer:role have video games played in your life?
Momo:That's a good one. Um, people don't really ask me this
Momo:question. You know, like, people are just like, "You're a
Momo:glassblower. You're an artist." So this is a really unique place
Momo:that I'm in right now on a video game podcast. Even telling my
Momo:friends and family they were like, "You? Why you?" But video
Momo:games, it's huge. It's everywhere. Games are important,
Momo:because that's just part of human life. We-even when we go
Momo:to school and play recess, like we're playing, playing and
Momo:interacting and playing out different roles, different
Momo:boundaries, different rules, different goals, like all of
Momo:that's super important. Um, I, I will say like, one of my
Momo:earliest memories of like a video game experience that I
Momo:really enjoyed that was, like, consistent, was probably Late
Momo:Middle School. While I was in Japan for the summer, like, I
Momo:spent many of my summers in Japan. And I was hanging out
Momo:with my cousin and he was playing Grand Theft Auto. And
Momo:like, it was just such a stark clash of like, Japanese culture
Momo:and like American culture, and like, me being the person to
Momo:explain to him like, why the motive of the game is to kill
Momo:somebody and then to like, get this prostitute and then collect
Momo:this and like, you know, like
Spencer:Oh, God, welcome to America.
Momo:Yeah, like, why are we bashing cars? What are these
Momo:weapons like guns are not even legal in Japan so like, the
Momo:concept of gun is-
Spencer:Oh geeze.
Momo:Right? So, so that was like an interesting moment. And
Momo:that was also like the summer where I was like, super into
Momo:like getting into hip hop and r&b. And I'm trying to like
Momo:translate all these like, Jay Z, Eminem, like Kanye lyrics to
Momo:him. So there was