In this episode, we hear Steve Barha talk about the his experiences as an entrepreneur and his goal to drive the adoption of earned wage access for every employee as Founder and COO of Instant.

For the full show notes, head on over to:

https://www.salaryfinance.com/us/podcast/Steve-Barha-Earned-Wage-Access-for-Everyone

Anita Ward 0:00

Welcome to Working On Wellbeing, where we share stories of purpose-driven people doing good in the world. We'll meet change agents, entrepreneurs, students, teachers, and big thinkers to learn about their wow moment and how it got them to where they are today. This show is brought to you by Salary Finance. And I'm your host Anita Ward, cultural anthropologist, and Chief Development Officer at Salary Finance.

Welcome everybody to Working On Wellbeing and people on purpose. Today, our show is live from my home city, Atlanta, Georgia. And I'm here with a technology entrepreneur, a servant leader, and a man of purpose, integrity, and urgency. And that's not three people. This isn't a panel discussion today. All of these attributes are found in one human being: Mr. Steve Barha. He is the founder of Instant Financial and he's our guest today. Welcome, Steve.

Steve Barha 1:12

Hi Anita, thank you so much for having me. Go Atlanta!

Anita Ward 1:15

Go Atlanta! Everyone, if you haven't heard of Instant Financial, you should go check them out. Because Instant Financial was a pioneer in the earned wage access space, but it altered its business model. There are no fees and no interest. And they focused on values, purpose, and well-being for me. Consider focusing on people, and the rest will fall into place. That's exactly what Instant Financial has done. And, as I previously stated, they are headquartered in Atlanta, the FinTech capital of the United States. By the way, Steve, I'm claiming that territory, so the chamber should love me; I actually think we might be by the way by in terms of counts of organizations. Anyway, in FinTech, I believe you have about 350 corporate clients, and you move about a billion dollars in funds annually. That is quite impressive. And you, my friend, are iconic because you've been delivering technology for at least a couple of decades, not to age you, but to inform you or me about your technology entrepreneur, the founder of all these companies. But, Steve, whenever I think of you, I'm reminded of a quote by Nelson Mandela, who said, "There is no passion to be found in playing small or settling for a life that is less than the one you're capable of living." And you live out your passion. And I don't think you'd settle for anything. So I think we're going to have a lot of fun talking about that today. And it's a pleasure to have you on the show.

Steve Barha 2:45

So, I appreciate the opportunity to be your guest, and I enjoy the show. This is absolutely fantastic work. I adore the mission you're on. Personally, I am enamored with the mission of Salary Finance. And I've made a few notes here so that my wife can hear some of this incredible introduction that you gave her because I want her to hear someone else telling her everything I try to convince her that she never believes.

Anita Ward 3:08

I'm sure she sees you as an icon too.

Steve Barha 3:12

Definitely not.

Anita Ward 3:15

Yes, there are so many topics we could discuss today. And, in some ways, we could turn this into a podcast in its own right, similar to the Steven and Anita show, but I believe our purpose and fundamentals are informed in so many ways by our early experiences. And, on the show, I called them "wow moments" because they were pivotal points in our lives where we discovered our well-being or purpose, and if you don't mind, maybe share a bit of your personal story. And where did you get your sense of purpose? What city did you grow up in?

Steve Barha 3:48

I grew up in a small town in central British Columbia, a town or a city; we thought we were a city, but we were actually a small town called Williams Lake. I'm the child of immigrants to Canada, and I spent a lot of my childhood daydreaming and trying not to be present because I didn't always fit in. However, as I progressed through high school, sports helped me a lot in terms of fitting in and finding my own stride, as well as building a lot of confidence and becoming a lot more present. But that was my childhood, and I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. I think that it's difficult as it was not always fitting in. I think those are the repetitions that build character and strength. And I long for being able to replicate some of that experience for my own three children. We live, as you mentioned in the very big city of Atlanta, so it's a very different experience for them. But on reflection, I had a great childhood. But if you ask young me, I don't think he would have agreed that it was a great childhood.

Anita Ward 4:48

So I'm a cultural anthropologist, and I think about you and the cultural effects of your life, and I grew up with an Italian mother, God rest her soul. So I'm aware of those expectations. What kind of thing was that? As a young child, how does it feel to have two very different cultures collide? Was there a cultural influence in your life?

Steve Barha 5:08

There was, I believe, and we always had great food. But I wouldn't call it an undercurrent because that doesn't do it justice; there were expectations of academic excellence, and a great job only consisted of being a lawyer or a doctor. So veering off that path required a little convincing and a little adventure on my part to be able to pull that off. But because I'm the oldest of the 18 cousins, I think there was an added expectation that it wasn't just what Steve was doing. It also had to be that I was going to be blazing the trail and there would be a lot of people watching, and that expectation setting or mentoring, or whatever you want to call it, but just that they were that whatever trails I was blazing, that was going to be the path for a lot of our family. And so, I believe that my decision not to pursue a career in law or medicine was significant and concerning, as was my decision not to marry within the culture. And it was absolutely fantastic. And she was raised by missionary parents who built schools in Sub-Saharan Africa. So she has a wonderful global perspective, but she is of different races and backgrounds. So there's been a lot of trailblazing along the way, and I've got the scars and wounds to show for it. But I believe I am living a truly blessed life today. And, in our family, things have really come together. And I believe that pushing and nudging some of those boundaries has brought us much closer as a family. And I believe it has allowed us to truly have a World Vision as a family; my sisters are doing absolutely fantastic. And all of our cousins are doing fantastically well as well. So being the tip of the spear is not easy. But when you're pushed by so much love and expectation, I think that's a burden I'm happy to bear.

Anita Ward 6:58

I'm also the oldest in my family, though I don't usually admit it in public. But I understand the pioneering aspect of it, especially coming from two fairly conservative cultural backgrounds. My Italian heritage was extremely protective. So even dipping a toe in the water is a bit of a revolution. But I know something happened to you that was a real turning point in your life. And it happened at a young age, I believe around 12 years old, something that you went through that changed your outlook a little.

Steve Barha 7:34

Yes, it did in the early days of Instant Financial, we use it to ensure that I had a chance to tell every instance here the story just because it's such a bedrock item for me personally. But, when I was 12, I did what 12-year-olds do: I went to the corner store, played video games, and bought candy, and my grandfather lived with us. And, for all intents and purposes, he was the primary caregiver for me. And my friends, who are 12 years old, are sprinting to the corner store. I also didn't have any money. But I recall grandpa keeping a change jar on his bedside table and conniving him. They specifically used that term to entice him to come outside and throw a ball around with me, despite the fact that he wasn't feeling well. He was in bed and quite ill at the time. And then, while we were outside, I ran back into the house like a silly little kid, took a handful of change from the jar, and ran to the corner store to play with my friends, buying candy and playing video games. And he died while I was away, despite the fact that he was gravely ill at the time. Unbeknownst to me, I had no idea how sick he was. But, as you can imagine, at the tender age of 12, that had a DNA-style impact on me in the sense that I absolutely will not steal or lie. That makes for a difficult conversation. And it can present some difficulties for those who are close to me and wish to cross those boundaries at any time. And that those are lessons that are instilled in children from a very young age. I'm not going to lie. I will not lie or steal. Those foundational items have undoubtedly served me well. And it's a big part of where instinct came from and why we do things the way we do.

Anita Ward 9:15

So, when I said that your personal story is central to it, I couldn't have said it better than what you just told us. In some ways, it really makes me think about life's existential questions. What caused this to occur? Where are we going? I believe, Steve, that there is a really wonderful space where the things that make us feel like our very best selves meet the needs of other people. And so I think we could have a little fun, especially on the heels of that story, and philosophize a little bit, maybe talk about the meaning of life, but not just introspective because neither of us are that way, but we're also very unique in our perspectives. I hope that's a real word or one I made up. And I believe there is a balance between introspection and our own introspection. And it is in this overlap that meaningful work can be found. So I reasoned that we could have some fun. Maybe I should just fire some crazy philosophical questions at you and play with this construct a little bit?

Absolutely. Let's go. Okay. All right. So, Mr. Steve Barr, how what are you willing to struggle for?

I'm willing to die for everything I believe in. It's really that straightforward. And if I'm not willing to lay down in front of a bus for those people or for those causes, I draw very hard lines. In my life, there are very few grey areas. Everything I care about is absolutely worth dying in front of a bus for.

We just talked about your 12-year-old self; what does 12-year-old Steve enjoy doing?

I'm assuming that he was empowered and cared enough that he had an environment that allowed him to play and dream a lot. That is something that I believe every child should have the opportunity to do. So, as I previously stated, it was a blessed childhood.

Yeah. What would make 12-year-old Steve happy about your life if he knew today?

What's possible, I believe, would bring joy to a younger me.

Wow. Is there anything that could bring him to tears?

I'm a man, we're not here to cry. I believe this because I am aware of how littered this path is with enduring hardships. That, I believe, would make him cry because there is no easy road ahead of him. But I believe it is also those tears that will be the elixir from which courage will be formed. And I believe that as an entrepreneur, being the oldest in the family, and coming from ethnic backgrounds where family is very important, I have a unique perspective. All of these adventures that we choose revolve around us having the courage to take the first step. And I am convinced that the first steps are the most difficult to take. And I believe it was those tears that helped or would help form the courage to take those first steps.

Okay, you're going to make me cry because you just said that tears are an elixir of courage. That, I believe, is something we could discuss for an hour in and of itself. What causes you to forget to eat, Steve?

It's problem-solving. I enjoy problem-solving. We're always talking about having superpowers. I don't have any, for what it's worth. Yes, exactly. I put in long hours. I work very hard. But I also enjoy being able to take complex problems and break them down into their simplest elements, and then really get to the bottom of them. I'm a big fan of root cause analysis. That is something we discuss professionally all the time. Unfortunately, we discuss it at home as well, which is unfortunate for my children, but it is what causes me to forget to eat. There have been times when this meal came easily because we were in problem-solving mode, but I believe I am at my best when we are able to deal with these difficult problems. And those are the times when everything else takes a back seat to getting to the solutions.

I left because I have a 24-year-old son. And I believe we've now switched roles. So I'm always wondering why. And he's always irritated by my level of analysis. So I believe there is some role reversal there. What motivates you, Steve?

Desire and faith. I despise being brief in my responses. But it is desire that creates wealth in life. And the belief serves as a compass, making it very easy to stray from the path we should be on. But I believe that the combination of those two is what keeps me on the path that we've been on.

Yes, I believe we are fortunate to live in a city that serves as a moral compass for the rest of the world in many ways. So I believe that the compass and North Star that are embedded here and in our upbringings are very much a part of what guides us in many ways. So, what have you been reading lately that has piqued your interest?

I, like everyone else, digest tidbits of information. I try to be diverse because I believe it is extremely dangerous right now that whatever we touch or interact with the services ends up curating only more of that. I believe that is extremely dangerous for us as a species because we are people who care about one another and want to build relationships with one another and cross those divides. But there's an uncracked copy of Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning on my side table.

Uncracked, okay?

It's actually just sitting there on my side table. Then there's Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's History of the Gulag Archipelago. I can't wait to get into both of those stories in a series of three that I absolutely will devour if given just a little bit of time.

I'd like to ask you another question. But I'm going to put it off for a little while. So thank you for playing with that with me because I believe that all of those pieces as we think about introspection and existentialism say a lot about who you are and how your passions shape your career. And all I see is this equally divided brain in your head saying, "I love analysis, but I also love this other side of humanity." So there's this wrangling going on between math and science, humanity and philosophy, and the fact that Viktor Frankl is sitting on your side table. Come on, I mean, come on. So let's talk about it. I mean, where did your career in technology begin? What path did it take you on? Let's take a look at how this all came together, for example.

So it began tinkering as a child. As a result, I never had the most up-to-date computers. However, my father and mother would always buy me whatever was the cheapest in the classifieds. So I'm just messing around with electronics. That was my passion since I was a child, and it continued as an undergrad in computer science and molecular biology at the University of British Columbia. I took my first professional job as a software developer at Microsoft, which lasted only six months before they fired me. But, but, but they did. I remember that moment like it was yesterday. Thursday, just like yesterday. Steve, we must inform you that you are extremely inept at software development. But we'd like the drawings on the day you choose. As a result, we're going to promote you to product management. As a result, that was a blessing. It is now advantageous to have some technical knowledge. However, it impedes some conversations, but that was the beginning of me finding my professional stride. But it quickly became clear to me that the large companies' pace was not for me; I simply needed to move and build much faster, and problem-solving is much faster. And thus the desire to be an entrepreneur, though I had no idea what that term meant at the time. But I left to found Sentra, where we invented web services and service quality. And at the time, when we were really moving to internet technology being used to have applications talk to applications or servers, servers, there wasn't an ability to monitor those that information flow back and forth, simply put, if you remember back with Netscape, if the product didn't render a webpage, you just hit Refresh, and it would redraw the page. So software couldn't do what a server couldn't. So we built the infrastructure to make that possible. We exited that business, and I joined a company called Info Touch in Vancouver, Canada, which was doing Internet access kiosks. We turned that business from an Internet access kiosk to one of the world's largest built payment platforms, serving the widest range of financial services across the continent, and sold it to PayPal. Then I immediately co-founded a company with my co-founder.

So, after talking for a few minutes about your integrity, acting with urgency, and the values you live by, how did the story of Instant Financial unfolding come to be? How did that relate to your mission?

Perfect alignment is what makes any of this work so simple. It's why the seemingly endless hours of each day feel so enjoyable. We do not charge employees any fees to access their earnings. There is no interest because it truly empowers employees to access their earnings on their own time or as needed, as opposed to the constraints of a bi-weekly, monthly, or even weekly paycheck. So the fact that there is no semantic trickery with which we are reaching into people's pockets, working Americans' pockets, perfectly aligns with everything you have just heard about who I am as a person. It allows me to really not be challenged in terms of what we're doing in relation to who I am, and rather who I want to be, but it's kind of a perfect alignment doing right by doing good and building a great business serving ours over 300 clients who are large corporate employers who have rolled out the solution and love the Instant Financial program. And, at the same time, serving their employees who aren't living paycheck to paycheck and have a little bit of liquidity within those pay cycles and don't have to turn to the so-called alternative financial services world, which we now call by a more friendly name, payday lending, and all of these services that have these high fees and charges associated with them. So it feels good to be doing good, and everything is in perfect alignment, which makes it so simple.

Yes, I believe we're both Italian, and I believe there's a history of loan sharking somewhere, but I don't want to be too dismissive. I grew up in the financial sector. His, and I instantly think back on the entire construct and what you're solving for it. And the idea being, if I get my history, bi-weekly or weekly or paying on the first and 15th was just invented because of the checks and the administration that it took to get checks to people, right? So it almost appears to be, wow, that kind of pop in the head. Why didn't we do early wage access before now, and you tell this great story, and I think about fixing the problem, and the Cricket Wireless machines, put $10 on it? And I believe that between the administration's problem and the inability to process a check, when that kind of aligned with the put $10 on it. I believe that was also a pivotal point in which you realized, "I have an answer for this." Could you please tell us a little bit more about that?

So it almost appears to be, wow, that kind of pop in the head. Why didn't we do early wage access before now, and you tell this great story, and I think about fixing the problem, and the Cricket Wireless machines, put $10 on it? And I believe that between the administration's problem and the inability to process a check when that kind of aligned with the put $10 on it. I believe that was also a pivotal point in which you realized, "I have an answer for this." Could you please tell us a little bit more about that? People who use the TIO service, on the other hand, would pay a two or three dollar convenience fee. Cricket Wireless was recently purchased by AT&T. Cricket Wireless was a prepaid all-you-can-eat wireless service that cost around $40 per month. And people who were paying or topping up their cricket accounts on the to machines, I'd see them over and over, there's this kind of 10,000 hours, putting $10 into their Cricket account, but also paying us a $3 fee. But then they'd do it again, and you start to recognize faces after a while. And you'd see some of the same faces return with a ten on it. So that was a paradigm in which they didn't want to lose phone service. It's absolutely critical for them in terms of keeping in touch with their family, but also so they can get calls into work or when we're called and they can't pick up a shifting sort of budget, what they were doing is putting $10 a week into their Cricut account. However, each time they paid the $10, they also paid us a $3 fee. As a result, they were effectively paying $52 per month for a $40 service. But when you talk to people and have these conversations, like, why don't you just put $40 at the end of the month and pay us a few dollars, we'll be happy. We enjoy providing this service. And we don't expect you to pay us $12 in fees. However, the human side of those conversations revealed that this is simply how they generate their budget. They budget in this manner and are accustomed to paying these fees. And I kept hearing it over and over. That's just the way it is, for me a complete lack of fiscal dignity, a complete lack of opportunity, and a lack of a holistic ability to do the right thing, but by some of these people so that is seeing that story over and over again and never really felt right reaching into these people's pockets when there was a better way. The year is 2021. There are some fantastic budgeting tools available. And, in general, I believe we haven't driven enough innovation in FinTech to truly put people in control of their money. There are a lot of great companies that are tackling these challenges, but it still feels like we're just scratching the surface, even after almost 20 years in FinTech, of really what's possible with technology and the bedrock of trying to do right by people.

Yes, I believe you are correct. I think we've played Sisyphus by pushing that rock up that hill. But, unlike him, I believe we're on our way to the top. I believe there are moments when I believe he will be a standard in a few years. And that technology will assist it in getting there. But one of the things that struck me in your storytelling about the founding of Instant Financial was a tipping point for you that when you were on a flight on a business trip, and I think as I start putting together all the puzzle pieces that make Steve Baja this is a really important conversation, especially when you start talking about control. So, would you mind telling everyone who is listening what happened on that flight?

I was 34 years old at the time, flying back from a business trip after a long week of work and sitting on a plane. I noticed these grey bubbles moving across my right eye and couldn't see properly, so I didn't realize it was my retina detaching. But that's when my retina detached, so I just closed my eyes and thought, wow, I'm so tired. I'm not even seeing correctly, so I just closed my eyes and put my head down, and the retinal flap touched back. And, I drove home. The next day, the same thing happened. Anita, I recall being in a meeting. Then, the same curtain of grey bubbles as you use for bubble wrap. Consider it in greyscale. And that's what I was seeing through one of my eyes. Then one of our product representatives mentioned that they were researching the symptoms I was experiencing. "We think that's your retina detaching," they said, and I said, "No, no, come on, it can't be." So we began reading in this meeting, and we all began reading about this wonderful group. As a result, we called an ambulance. And I had nine major surgeries over the course of two and a half years to try to restore this division in my eye. But, as you can imagine, I spent a lot of time after nine major surgeries turned on my left with my head turned to try to help the eye heal. I was miserable in a dark room. I had just had our third child at the time, and I wasn't able to pick him up because doing so would cause pressure in the eye, which could lead to surgery failure. So it wasn't a happy time. But, as you can imagine, just thinking about earnings significantly reduced earnings over that time, and we've been blessed along the way. So we weren't living hand to mouth at that point. But, even so, we were concerned about where the funds would come from to pay a bill and how we would make ends meet if this went on for any length of time. But I also remember my wife one time, she was now in charge of moving money around, and when she walked in, she had her laptop open because I couldn't look at screens. And she replied, "Well, there isn't any money in the checking account." But how am I going to pay this bill? And I said, "Well, you're going to transfer money from one of the savings accounts to the checking account." And then, once the money is there, you can pay, and she said, Well, why is there no money in the checking account as well because you're not getting paid right now? There is no income. And I won't be paid until the following Friday. And as she was leaving, she made a snide remark because she was annoyed that she had to do all of this. And her husband is sleeping in the darkroom, and she has a new baby to contend with. She also didn't want us to paraphrase her. "That's stupid," she said. What's the deal with only getting paid every two weeks? And then she slammed the door shut and walked away? And, as you can imagine, I just sat there and let it haunt me for years afterward. Why are we only paid every two weeks, and, as you mentioned, it comes from effectively? By the way, there's a great book on payroll, and if you enjoy falling asleep very, very early, I'll send you a link to the book. So the idea of simply speeding up payroll doesn't work either. There are tax obligations to meet, as well as wage and hour laws that require pay stubs to be issued every time payroll is run. So, what is the solution to this? Why are you only paid every two weeks? Is to create a bolt-on service that works alongside an employer's existing payroll process without requiring employers to change their payroll processes. However, it still provides liquidity to employees, despite the fact that in America, 80 percent of the population lives paycheck to paycheck, and the statistics surrounding financial wellness or the lack thereof. So, by giving these employees access to some of their earnings when they needed it without any fees or charges, and also without having any negative impact on the employer's payroll process, we were able to provide this service and, if you will, the light went on in the dark.

Adding to your statistics, we might be tempted to conclude that this is primarily a problem for low-income earners. However, as we approach the end of 2020, we're seeing that nearly 30 percent of people earning $168,000 per year are living paycheck to paycheck. So, I believe, the ability to access your wages when you need them to cover a cash flow shortfall is critical. And you reminded me, Steve, that I grew up in Las Vegas, and both my brother and sister worked in the gaming industry. And I recall them bringing home envelopes full of cash at the end of the shift. ****So they would divide the tips, and each dealer would receive an envelope containing his or her share of the tips. However, I believe that the Instant suite not only accepts Instant Pay but also accepts Instant Tips. And I believe instant miles, so you've thoroughly considered the gig economy. You've also considered all of the different dimensions. Is my recollection correct?

That's correct. So there are really two things that set Instant apart from everyone else in the space. First, as we mentioned, we were the pioneers of no fee, no interest access to earnings, and frankly, if you're charging fees for employees to access some of their earnings, you're not doing it right. That sounds a lot like payday lending, doesn't it? That is not at all our model. There are no charges, no interest charges, no subscription charges, free, clear access to earnings, and those funds can be made immediately available to them on their instant card, and there is no semantic trickery in our program to try to trick hardworking Americans out of their earnings. Alternatively, if they want to transfer money to a different account, they can do so. The second key difference between us and everyone else is that we've really thought through all of the different ways that employees earn, such as you mentioned your family earning tip funds. So companies such as Blooming Brands, which has 1300 locations across America, pay out their tips a lot electronically via the instant program. Employees who are paid their tips via instant tell us they feel more financially secure. Because there is a history of cash disappearing from envelopes full of cash; it may have been under your bed for a short time, but you have no idea where it went. As a result, they are effectively being banked with Instant. And now they can save some money, they know where their money is going, they can budget, they can use tip earnings like many of us who are salaried, and take advantage of services that are geared toward salary-based employees. But what about the tip money? They tell us they needed to feel more secure in the scenario, which was intriguing to me. It's really like leaving a restaurant in the middle of the night with a pocket full of cash; those people are targeted by feeds an entire category I haven't really thought through, and we're imagining what we want to do and what services we want to provide. But that's what everyone tells us, so thank goodness for instant gratification. Because I no longer have a pocketful of cash, I can walk to my car and know I'll be safe. On the walk, I'm looking left and right in the dark, sprinting to my car because I'm concerned about this pocketful of cash, which makes me a target. And then mileage payments for Papa John's drivers as they earn and drive their payments are paid out directly to them, we have commissions and bonuses that are being paid through the program. And what sprint dealers actually saw was by linking earnings directly to or in real-time for those employees, the employees getting what they came to work for, which is to earn and the employer is also driving the behaviors they want a sprint, wireless dealers, the retailers are spending more time the agents are selling the more expensive handset because their Commission's are directly linked to that activity. So it's a kind of perfect nexus between employees getting what they want and employers driving the behaviors that they want. To summarize that entire second of what makes us unique, all of the different ways that employees earn are also made available via instant programs for those employees.

I also believe that the true paradigm shift that is at the root of all of this, Steve, is a question of wage control. And as you relinquish control to me as the employee, you're also shaping my behavior, whether it's me starting to budget or stopping living paycheck to paycheck. There's this sense of financial dignity and financial security, not just as I'm walking in the parking lot, but knowing that I've got something the next day and the next day, and I don't have to put 10 on it. But, in some ways, it's a little of both, right? Today is the day that I will receive my pay. I own it, and I earned it. And, as I previously stated, I believe it will become a standard; I believe you are driving an economic shift, a complete change in how we are paid. But, at heart, I'm a geek and an anthropologist. So I have the same problem you do with both sides of my brain. But what do you think it will take to get people to accept earned wage access? What do you believe it will take?

I'm not sure if the day requires any more nudges. Employees, I believe, have a demand. And we see headlines about the difficulties that great employers are having in acquiring labor, and I believe that in industries where revenue and the health of the business is directly linked to being able to attract and retain labor, which is most industries revenue, and the health of the business is directly linked to being able to attract and retain labor. There's a kind of, I'm not sure if we can call it a post COVID. Or, at this point, based on our COVID experience, I believe the best employers in the country are looking for a way to distinguish themselves as an employer of choice. But I also believe we have employees who are using Instant that we didn't have when COVID was first making an impact because we didn't really understand what it was and remember the conversations about there being no toilet paper left on shelves and no food left. Those employees who chose Instant Pay did not have to pay any fear interest charges. They drove their impromptu car to the grocery store, the gas station, and filled up. Those employees could withdraw their earnings whenever they wanted. And those people will never work for an employer who does not provide immediate pay. So I believe we've reached a tipping point between earned wage access vendors who have successfully tested our models with traditional employers. And I believe it is linked to the gig platforms; every major game platform has Instant Pay or a service similar to an instant. So, depending on who you believe, there are between 25 and 50 million Americans working at gig platforms in the United States, and they all have access to real-time earnings. So I believe we've reached a tipping point where we've gone from this being an innovative, interesting idea to Instant Pay being an absolute must-have benefit that employers must provide if they're going to compete for labor and if they want to retain their existing employees.

Yes, there is now a book called The Cluetrain Manifesto that is probably 20 years old. And they discussed how control shifts, and at the time, it was consumer behavior shifting and the consumer driving so much. And, in many ways, I believe that the current paradigm with EWA is very similar in that control has shifted to the employee, and it is now a demand. So, if you will, demand mints from employees who say, "We want this, and this is what it will take to keep me." I said I'd save one question for you, Steve, because you've done so much. Congratulations, you're one of my personal heroes. But tell me about your bucket list.

Just a quick return, just a second. There is another book that discusses Instant payable, but it is a little older. However, Deuteronomy 24:15 states that you must wait.

Let us see you cry out to the Lord before the sun goes down. And it would be a sin for you. So there's no such thing as a bad day on this journey, is there?

Even God wants us to get paid the same day.

That's correct. Even God was quick to respond to the word. But it's a no, from a bucket list standpoint, I wouldn't say I have a bucket list. That's a little different from everything else we've talked about. But I know without a doubt that I owe it to all the wonderful souls who have shared so much about me, my family, and all my colleagues, and it just feels like this journey. Despite the fact that we've been doing this for a while, it feels like we're just getting started. And there's so much opportunity, and we've been so fortunate. But I feel compelled to repay some of this to all the wonderful people who have assisted us and continue to keep us on the right track. If there is a bucket list item, I would love to be in a position where I could go back and pay some of this back. As a result, there is a chance for some sort of long-lasting dent in the universe. But, by the way, this is not for the sake of my ego. I don't want anyone talking about my ego or what I did because, as with all technologies, it's a small army of people who bring this to light. And I'm the one who gets to be the face of it. We've had people cry at Instant Financial, we've talked about the stories of the impact we've had, we've had people sweat in our early offices when the AC went out, and we've had people literally cry when we stuff our own instant cards into our envelopes. So we've been through all of that blood, sweat, and tears. And all of those people deserve the chance to broaden their horizons. But enduring death would not be beneficial to me. But it would be because I want my children to see how much time we spend away from family while building these companies and developing these technologies. But I'd like for them to see what's possible. I want them to take on the impossible. And I want them to understand those constraints. To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, they are not true limitations that are imposed on us; we must believe in the impossible and remove the improbable. So, for me, that journey of hoping that one day, when I have enough freedom, I will be able to go back and begin to repay some of the blessings that we have received. But I want my children to understand what is actually possible and why their fathers spend so much time away from them so that their reach continues to expand. That, I believe, is the way to go. That, I believe, is how we will have a long-term impact.

I've heard it said, Steve, that venture capital is like rocket fuel for tech companies. But I have an astrophysicist friend named Megan. She will also tell you that rocket fuel is used by rockets. And I'm a firm believer that people come first, followed by fuel. And what you just said really encapsulates what I believe, my friend, you are the only fuel that any business rocket requires, as well as the idea of leaving a legacy and making a contribution to the universe. I have no doubt you will, and it has been my pleasure to assist you. Thank you so much for allowing me to speak with you today. Thank you very much. I am grateful for the opportunity. And everyone goes check out right away, and I want to thank you all for listening to Steve Barha. Today, share his story about people who do things on purpose. Continue to Work On Wellbeing until the next time. Thank you very much, everyone.

Thanks for joining us for today's episode of Working on Wellbeing brought to you by Salary Finance. I'm Anita Ward. At Salary Finance, our mission is to improve the financial health of working Americans by providing access to socially responsible financial products in the workplace. You can learn more about how you can partner with us to help improve your employee's financial well-being at [salaryfinance.com](http://salaryfinance.com) Don't forget to subscribe or follow so you don't miss an episode.