In this episode of Mind Power Meets Mystic, hosts Cinthia Varkevisser, your unapologetic Spiritual Shit Disturber, and Michelle Walters, hypnotherapist and coach, dive deep into the energy of the third and fourth chakras.

💛 Third Chakra – Personal power, confidence, emotions, and boundaries. How arrogance, low self-esteem, or hurt feelings can show imbalance.

💚 Fourth Chakra – The great balancer of all chakras. Rooted in the present, love, integrity, and authentic connection.

Together, Cinthia and Michelle explore:

• How healers can balance leading, witnessing, and guiding clients.
• The dangers of rushing into judgment vs. practicing present listening.
• When to empower, when to be direct, and when to step back in healing sessions.
• Why integrity matters in both mystical and practical work.
• Stories from real sessions that reveal the pitfalls and breakthroughs of chakra imbalance.

This is a powerful, practical, and soul-stirring conversation about healing, listening, and stepping into authentic integrity.

📩 Connect with Us:

• Cinthia Varkevisser: Website | Social Media
• Michelle Walters: Website | Social Media
• 🎧 Thank you for listening! Until next time, stay bold, curious, and connected. ✨

Welcome to Mind Power Meets Mystic. The show where practical mind power and mystical wisdom collide with humor and wild curiosity.

Yeah, we're not here to play it safe. I'm Cinthia Varkevisser, your resident spiritual shit disturber. I stir things up with mystic power and bold action.

And I'm Michelle Walters, coach and Hypnotherapist. I bring strategy and transformative hypnosis to help you turn subconscious blocks into unstoppable momentum.

Let's shake up your thinking, dive into your soul and make bold moves in your life.

We'll take you on a journey of breakthrough and aha moments, exploring spirit, business, love relationships and self expansion.

We're connecting you with your highest self and flipping fear into strength.

So buckle up. We're doing this one wild, transformative conversation at a time.

Let's go.

Hello, friends. It is time for another episode of Mind Power Meets Mystic. I'm Michelle Walters, I'm the mind power junkie. I'm the mind power part of this equation. And this week, I'm joined with my podcast pal, Cinthia Varkevisser. She is our show mystic. We have been doing a series this year on the chakras, and we are going to continue sort of some of the themes of the chakras, particularly chakras three and four, and talk about them a little bit more this week. So Cinthia tell us a little bit about what's the third chakra, what's the fourth chakra, and what's kind of an intersection or comparison point between the two? I love

these two. Well, I love all the chakras. Um, the third chakra, to me is between the second chakra, of course, between the second and fourth chakras. Of course, the second chakra is about creativity, all these other things, and the robustness of life around receptivity, creativity, all these things. The fourth chakra is about, you know, being in the moment, love. What's your thumbprint in life? It's about the the greater good, something bigger than yourself. The third chakra is a great balance between the two, which is about personal empowerment, confidence. It's really about not mastering, but really understanding your emotions and allowing the emotions to fill you up in a certain way. It's it's easy to be in balance with your emotions. And when that happens, it usually comes from your third chakra, hurt feelings, third chakra, low confidence. Third chakra, a bit of arrogance, right? But it's arrogance because you don't want to look at something third chakra. So that's, that's what the third chakra is. There are a lot of good things about it, and it's really, for me, the easiest place to see the imbalance, which is right in the third chakra. The fourth chakra is the balancer of all the chakras. So it, you know, it's there are three beloved, three below, three above, three below, and the three below deal with past. The three above is about projection. It can be about future. It can be about all these other things in the fourth chakra just hangs really steady right here, right now.

So that's the fourth track was kind of the chakra that's most associated with the present, the not sort of where you came from or where you're going, but where you are right.

And it doesn't it's also right. It's the thing that makes us right size. Because if we're always, if we're if we're not walking our talk, because fifth chakra is about talk, then we're not really in our present. We're not really bound by all the foundation that we have, everything that we've experienced. And so then you're going to just kind of, you know, even though it's the fifth chakra, you're talking about your butt. So, so that's why, you know, the forest truckers, really, really, a great balancer. It it reminds you to be right sized. It reminds you that you are like, I love saying I am unique, and I'm all that, and I'm no big deal. You know, that's who we all are. We're all that, and we're also no big deal. So that's, that's the beauty. It's also a great connector, right? Because if I'm present and you're present, we're always going to find something in common, even if it's like nothing, in common, even in those things of not being, even if it's a stretch, right? Exactly what you've, you know, you've been on those dates, right? I Oh. Oh yeah, right.

So, oh yeah, yeah. Well, not just dates, but like, like, you know, I do a lot of business networking, and suddenly you're talking to someone, and you're like, okay, so you're pest control. How do I how do I find something to talk

to you, right? One of my favorite stories is I had, it was a long time ago. I had a job interview when it was still all in person, and I sat down across from from this man, and on paper, we were a perfect match for each other. And so as soon as we started talking, nothing in common, it was the funniest thing. And then it finished up, and he says, Oh yeah, I'm he says, people tend to have problems with this, but I also manufacture guns. And I said, you know, it's been really lovely talking with you, but I don't, you know, believe in this. And he's and the where we connected is that we were so grateful that we could both be honest throughout this whole, the whole interview, where we just looked at each other like, this is not going to work. It's not going to work. We you know, he gave me the 20 whole minutes, you know. And even though we both slotted in an hour and we said, you know, but it was a great moment, because we were in the moment and talked about, really honestly what was Well,

it sounds like you both were hearing each other, right exactly. I think, I think that's and this, this conversation is not meant to go into a broadly political no conversation, but, but we really do have cultural issues right now where hearing one another has become a challenge and a problem, and hearing, hearing the same sets of things, and discerning what's factual and not factual, and deciding what's right to what are the you know, what are the limits to anything right? Yeah, you've been listening to Mind Power Meets Mystic with me, Michelle Walters and my co host, Cinthia Varkevisser, we want to tell you about a special gig the two of us have going on. It's called mind power meets mystic, the project, and it starts off on a zoom call with Cinthia. Cinthia tell everybody what they can expect.

So for the first half of our session, you will be with me and Michelle will be very quietly in the background preparing to do her work. What we will do is that we will talk about the one thing that you either want to amp up or that you want to release. And through the intuitive work, I help you get boil it down to its essence, and then give you an RX of three practical things to do to set you on your way. And then Michelle magically appears. What is it that you do that Michelle,

I have been listening in but not participating in the first half of the call. I have an excellent idea of what Cinthia means when she says something, and I have an excellent idea of quickly getting to what my client is all about and his or her individual strengths. I turn all of this into a 20 to 30 minute hypnosis session on the second half of the call, which, when we're done, I strip off and send you as an mp three that you can listen to over and over again. You also will have cinthias Three point recommendations and the recording of the Zoom call. It is a fantastic one hour offering a great gift for yourself or for someone you don't know what to get such insights, and we've gotten such great reviews. So if you're interested, send me or Cinthia an email. You'll find our contact information in the show notes, and we'll tell you how to get started back to third and fourth chakra. So third chakra is a little bit sort of about the self, the ego, the sort of having personal power. And fourth chakra is more about sort of being present, recognizing community, kind of living in that space.

Okay, I love that purpose driven, right? Purpose

Driven, right? So one of the things we wanted to explore today was to talk a little bit about healers and healing work, and what healing work can look like as regards, sort of the third and fourth chakra. So I think Cinthia, you had a story you wanted to share about about that?

Yeah, this is, this is a typical story that I had from a client, but I've also heard it from the healing side as well, and it's so what had happened is I've had coffee with Judy, really good friend of mine. And you know her, and she has a family member that has really gotten into energy work as well as selling supplements. So it's a great it's a great marriage for this, for this family member, Judy's Mom, is 95 years old. She's, you know, she's. That vitality in her. She's still really social. You know, she is in a senior living home, but it's it's fantastic. It's very active. The family member went and visited and decided that it would be great if she checked the Judy's mom's energy to see how she could help. She did this without the mom's permission, and doing the energy scan, she determined that that Mary and Judy's mom needed copper, and so bought the copper supplements and sent it to Mary without even thinking about, could there be medication? I mean, 95 years old, there's bound to be medication. And what are the medications? And all these things. And so it actually is. Goes right back to what you're talking about, about not listening. And the thing that we have as healers, in particular, those of the empathic, you know, in the empathic vein is it's so important to listen to what your person in front of you needs. There are a lot of times that we get information that is not for us to just share. A lot of times we get information and our job is to help them find out which is more like what therapists do. And other people, you know, it's about them to uncover. It's their experience. We just get to, we just get to, like, you know, put a couple of guide posts along the way, and then witness. And sometimes, a lot of people, when they are in their readings, there's a flash of something, and then we get into our own emotions. And once that happens, we are no longer sitting in, you know, in channel. We're sitting in our feelings. And so then what we do is that we relay our messages from a third from our third chakra, which is, you know, because of my feelings are hurt, or because I was offended, or whatever it is, then the message changes. So, you know, go look at any actor, and they'll put, you know, an emphasis on any word, and it changes the message absolutely right. So it's really important for us as healers to to look really see the person in front of us really ask them energetically, what is it that you're looking for? What is it you're looking for? From me, it's also nice to hear ask them, you know, I love to say, hey, you know, how can I be of service today? And they'll, they'll talk about it while they're doing that, I'm asking, what is it that they really want? So I'm listening, and at the same time, I'm writing down, you know, this person says that they want these things, and my channel saying, be loving, be kind. Make sure that you say two good things before you say this, because they're in such a, you know, delicate state and and it's really important also for healers, especially those who give readings, is is to say, if you don't understand, you know that doesn't hurt my feelings, right? Because we're two human beings, and language is very limited, right? Energy is limitless, but our language is limited. So I will change my words, but not my message. And my job is to make sure that you get your message. You know, who gives a shit what the words are, so long as you get the message

right? Yeah. No, I agree. I often talk about message because message is bigger than words. Words matter, words matter, but message is the bigger concept. I think, as you're talking about this, it, it reminds me, because I've been to a number of different coaching programs to learn how to be a better coach, and one of the and these are, these are not intuitive, or Woo, woo, or any kind of that. These are very sort of pragmatic, conscious, focused type schools, and the emphasis of most of the training in those programs is to focus on asking questions. And asking questions is an outstanding way of evidencing or listening, right? But also of not really, not not going too far or sharing too much of your own stuff, your own ego, your own whatever, to help that person to communicate, to get out. What are the facts around what's bothering them? What are the feelings that have been injured? What are the catch 20 twos? They're cotton that they don't know how to deal with, right, right? And so, you know, I think kind of, one of my tips for people is that, you know, when you find yourself whether you're a healer or not, and I think everybody is a healer, absolute friend or whatever, you know, but how do you how to I mean, just today, today, I was on. A phone call with one of my dearest friends, and she's having a lot of troubles and and I, I said, Hey, you know, we've talked about a lot of things, but have you ever made this statement? Who ever like drawn this particular line? And I, I asked it as a question, have you ever have you done this and by doing that? She was like, oh, no, I haven't drawn that line. I haven't drawn that boundary, and my credit. My point was not go do it. My point was play with that idea, right? Think about that, test that out. Talk to someone else about it like you don't need to take this action today. But you know, what if you were to, what if you were to, is helpful at not putting too much of your own energy into now, I think it gets really tricky in in the readings part, and in some of the work that I do in hypnotherapy, because there are places in hypnotherapy where I Ask questions Absolutely, but there are places in hypnotherapy where what makes it work is me telling you this is how it is, right? Well, and that's part of getting a reading, right. I'm telling you my guides are saying X, Y and Z, right, and and it's, it's those moments where figuring out how to, how to, I guess, lean into the fourth chakra. Lean into the balance is more important than letting third chakra, self, my ego, my stuff, my experience, overshadow the the best energetic, healing energy that I can create

right? Agreed, you're really good at that. The other thing that's really nice is that you create really good examples, so it's set up and and, and then you can go in and do the teaching moment, or whatever, the moment of awareness. But I also like what you're saying is that it's sometimes, it's it's, you know, you have to do the thing right, which is the the lesson is to be really direct, because that's what the message is. The message is in the thing I like about that is sometimes, that's the shake up. It's the that's the shocker, right? That and and kind of shocks you back into place, which puts them back into the present. The The other thing about third third chakra is it's about standing up and really taking on the confidence and being standing on whatever it is that you're saying. So a lot of clients their impasse themselves, and so they're not really sure exactly, you know, well, I got boundaries. I gotta do the boundaries. Yes, do the boundaries, or whatever word you want to call it. I don't like using that word. You know that mine is, stand on your personal power. Let your personal power be your boundary, right? But there are times where you know the reading is fucking tell them to shut the up and fight. Fight for what it is that you believe in. You don't have to fight your whole life. But there are certain times where you just got to stand up and go, I'll fight you on this and you'll and what happens is that it changes up the energy again,

absolutely fighting. Fighting puts in a lot of energy, right? Sometimes, it results the way you want it, and sometimes it doesn't, right and but it, but it, but it does. And that's kind of like when I was talking to my friend about this morning, what if you were to do this? You know, it's taking an action. It's, it's not fighting. Oh, I wasn't recommending a fight in a big way, recommending, like, take take a stance. Take a stand. Take a stance and and tell some of the people that this matters to right? And you know what would happen if you were to take that stance? What would happen? And sometimes, if you don't like where you are and you want to get in a different place, taking a stance and leaning into that you know your personal power, that what you have control over, that that side of things is essential, right, or for catalyzing a shift to get things out of a poor Place and into a better place, right?

And just to wrap it back in, is, as a healer, it's really important to know, when are you direct? When are you leading, and when are you witnessing? It's all a part of of the healing space and the process for the person in front of you, because sometimes, you know, my favorite readings happen to be mostly men do this. But I've seen, but I've had experience with with some women as well. Well, they will talk for about 30 minutes, and really, what they're doing is that they're getting their comfort in. They're trying to dispel some kind of fear. And. And what they're doing is they're taking up as much time as possible, so they're afraid of the answer, so that the answer when it comes in, they're like, oh, that's that's sort of that. A lot of men have done that in the past. And then they'll say, Oh, shit. I wish I had asked earlier, but the way I look at is, no, you had to do that thing. And if I were to press it in any way they would have shut down. So it's, it's really important to to look at your person holistically, because that's exactly what you're doing as a healer, right? And I love how you heal, because you do blend your mind and your intellect with your with your with your healing, with your hypnotherapy and your healing process.

right? The other thing that I like about this scenario that you're talking about, what has happened is I have a client that's working with the hypnotherapist, and she came away saying, I've got all these emotions and I and what the hypnotherapist said was, essentially I wasn't there, so I can't tell you, but this is what she got my client. What she relayed to you, yeah, is that they don't deal with the emotional aspect. So you go do your emotional thing, come back when you're ready for the next step. I On one level, I didn't agree with it, because I'm like, oh gosh, now you left them a little bit not whole, and at the same time, totally respect that that's what they don't do, right? That is for whatever reason, that's what they don't do maybe that's not their forte. Or, you know, it gets a little bit too sloppy for

Well, I think it can get sloppy. Yeah, I think it can get sloppy. And I certainly have helped clients deal with very emotional situations. And I think almost all hypnotherapists Do you have, but there are times where a person is so so violently upset about something that you you really have to shift course and deal with that, or set it aside or reschedule, right? Because, you know, I had one client who came to see me and is like, I'm really shook up. A friend of the family tried to commit suicide yesterday. Wow. Oh, well, we're dealing with that. We're not going to deal with what you came to see me for. We're going to deal with that because that's, that's big and omnipresent, and it's, you know, I guess it's fourth chakra, right? It's present. It's here. We need to, we need to reach a higher degree of balance with that before we can look at, you know, going back to your other stuff,

right? Make it right sized. Yeah. Right sized, yeah. It's a very, it's a very interesting thing from the healing aspect. Are there, is there anything else that you want to talk about, of note, especially from the space where we are providing the highest care, because it's holistic, right? So I like to think of the holistic healing as the highest healing. And you know, of course, specializing is so important, and that's also the highest healing when people are ready for that piece, but for general practice, for a lot of us that are walking life and we're struggling in different ways, holistic healing is the highest level, because you're like, Okay, we're going to look over here, and that's going to help balance you over here on your business life, which will, in turn help you talk to a family member. You know what I mean? So there's this great untangle I

think the one thing that I might want to bring up is that, so we're both in kind of this coaching world. There are a lot of coaching programs that offer certificates of some kind, and there's some amount of value in. Some of those certificates, because they they evidence work, they show a particular kind of content focus, right? But they might help you build your business, right? Because people know what they are, that's what they're looking for, that kind of a thing. But on the other hand, I think that a lot of healers get swept up in the idea that, Oh, I need training in this, I need training in that. I need training in this and in that. And I am, God knows. I mean, I love to learn, and I'm always doing something new, but it is very easy to get kind of sucked into and and oversold what the promise of certain coaching programs might be. And I think that in some cases, maybe one way of looking at that is that some of those coaching programs are more coming from a what's good for them versus what's good for the students, right? And I just would encourage healers and people of all stripes to make sure that when you're going into a coaching or training program that it it's speaking to you and exactly what are your needs, and that you're able to reflect on its value, sort of minusing out excessive ego elements of the program, right? Is that clear?

It makes sense to me. It makes sense to me on a slightly different bend, which is some programs. I've noticed, they come out and they send you on your way with no foundation, experiential Foundation. And so they say, fly, be free. And everybody's like, yippee, Yahoo. And then, and then, you know, there's nothing now what. Yeah, it's now what. And then now what. And then there, you know, you say you provide healing services, but I tell you what, there's something about experiencing somebody, having that first person cry, and you staying in your space, or having, you know, bumping into something that's much bigger than what was anticipated, and being able to settle into it and all. I believe a lot of certificate certificate programs, they don't give you that opportunity before they send you on your way.

Yeah, I think, I think that's true. I think the other thing to bring up is that a big part of this is choosing the right clients. I am not everybody's perfect person. I'm good for a lot of people, but there are clients who are looking for things that I don't provide or don't want to provide. There are clients who have showed up being, I don't know, a little weird, or where we just, in a short period of time, weren't really seeing eye to eye and recognizing that, you know, not everybody's for me, and I'm not for everybody.

Well, yeah, you know what I tell you about that, right? My the channeled message I got, I love my channel because they have a sense of humor, which is right, which is, if Jesus Christ, Buddha and Krishna are not for everyone, why the hell do I think I should be? And what I love that you do is that you very lovingly send these people off and refer them to someone else. And I, I like doing that as well, because now I'm a matchmaker, exactly. And there's something really magical about matchmaking without having to worry about I mean, if I could, I would match make you with, you know, a guy friend, totally, right?

Mr. Mr. Wonderful. Yeah, I

don't have, I don't have any guys. Maybe you'll find him

for me. Cinthia, I know you're on my I know you're on the lookout list. Always, what I love about you and your services are that you know you are like everything that I bring up with clients, pretty much I'm pulling from them. I'm using their words. I'm it. It's coming out of their own voice. In terms of a lot of this healing, you have a different you're you're pulling in information from kind of a different source. Maybe it's not that different of a source, but it's perceived as a different source. And by sharing that information with someone, especially like when you when you when you do cold readings, you don't know anything about anybody, and then you start telling them things that they're shocked, you would come up with it. It creates rapport and a relationship that has a really unique and special element to it because of the. The we expect everything to be so logical, and not everything that you tell people is

logical, right, right? And,

and I think that's just really, really beautiful.

Thank you. I need to tell you a story that about that, though it's there was this. There was a group that I belonged to, and I got a phone call from a member of the group, and they said, there's this woman who wants a reading and no one will take her on because she is asking questions. She's having an affair with a married man. Oh, and I was like, Yeah, but I was like, How dare you? You're looking at the person in front of you. It doesn't matter what she's doing. So bring it on. And then the whole story comes out, which is, you know, she's poly, and she's looking to be, you know, it's a whole different thing, right? And I was like, you motherfuckers, you could be helping this woman instead of making her feel like a rag doll going, you know, refer, refer, refer, refer. And you could, you could have helped her out, if you just would have listened instead of

listened and asked the right questions,

ask the right questions. And even if it wasn't, you know, even if it wasn't that she is Polly, look at the person in front of you and look at the pain point. It doesn't matter how she

well. And I think the other thing that I want to call upon, kind of, especially in light of all of the crazy things going on in our world right now, is is, are you rushing to judgment, right? Are you rushing to judgment? Do you have all the information, right? You know, is it, is it appropriate to say this happened or that happened when nobody's really figured that out yet, right? And what? What can you do to slow that down a little bit? What can you do to ensure that your sources are truthful and accurate and that you're not spreading misinformation either intentionally or unintentionally. Don't think a lot of people spread misinformation intentionally. There are some but, but we all go so fast right now that that's sometimes overlooked, and I think it's something we need to bring back as a value to all of us, because if we how are we going to get unified if we can't start to listen to each other and focus on on truth and facts? I don't know another way,

right? But having told the story and now listening to you, I can look back and go, Well, shit, I'm judging. I'm judging those people. Maybe they looked at their at their fourth you know that they

maybe they're just uncomfortable dealing with with somebody who's that open sexually,

right, right? And so in front of in front of you, and the pain Mind Power Meets Mystic community, I recognize that I was being judgmental, and I will now shift that Well,

yes and no Cinthia, I think, you know, I think they, too, felt like they were doing the best. Most people are do what they do because they feel like it's the best they can do, right and and I do believe that most of the time. Um, so I don't know. I know you do the best you can do as much of the time as you can. And I do,

yeah, absolutely, it's why we, you know, that's why we're friends, right? We, we, we match that way. Our integrity matches. That's actually a great way to wrap up, which is to talk about our integrity, right integrity has to deal with, with our chakras, one through four, based on all our experiences, our base fears, the way we receive everything and having these experiences we get to talk about, we get to have this integrity. And from this integrity, we get to jump off from wherever we want. So, yeah, is there anything that you want to add to that, or

just that integrity is on my list of top five values, so, and I know it's on yours too. Yeah. All right, so I don't know, how do you say Be a person with integrity? You can't say integrity. Yeah.

So here's the deal that I think that this is a great way to finish up, which is, know that you're coming from your space, and, you know, really look at the person in front of you and and if it's not a match, then send them off with love, and maybe, you know, the person that they really are meant to to match up with.

That's right. That's it. It's all about, yeah, make a match. Make your integrity. All right. There we go. That concludes another episode of Mind Power Meets Mystic. Thank you for joining me. Michelle Walters, the mind power junkie, and Cinthia Varkevisser, the spiritual shit disturber mystic on our show. Please let. I guess, send us a rating or review, send us an email. We'd love to get to know you better as we continue to refine and grow our show. Thanks.

Bye. You've been listening to Mind Power Meets Mystic.