Dr. Flavia Vedova, DVM, MBA, DACVIM (Nutrition), jumps into one of the most confusing parts of pet nutrition, figuring out when to switch diets, what “all life stages” actually means, and whether your large breed dog really needs a large breed formula. If you’ve ever stared at a pet food bag wondering if you’re helping your patient thrive or just falling for clever marketing, this episode breaks down senior pet nutrition, large breed puppy growth, calcium and phosphorus balance, and the future of pet food labeling in a way that actually makes sense.

This episode is brought to you by Hill's Pet Nutrition!

LINKS

https://wsava.org/global-guidelines/global-nutrition-guidelines/

https://vet.tufts.edu/foster-hospital-small-animals/specialty-services/nutrition

https://balance.it/

Hill's Vet website: https://www.hillsvet.com

Hill's Veterinary Academy: https://na.hillsvna.com/en_US/dashboard

ABOUT OUR GUEST

Dr. Flavia Vaduva is a 2016 graduate of the University of Florida College of Veterinary Medicine; she worked as a general practitioner and in various industry roles for 6 years prior to specializing in veterinary nutrition. She completed her veterinary clinical nutrition residency through Kansas State University and University of Tennessee in 2024. She also has an interest in business, specifically as it relates to the veterinary profession. She completed her MBA through West Texas A&M University in 2019 and was also a 2015 graduate of the Hough Graduate School of Business at the University of Florida where she obtained a Master of Science in Management in 2015. Currently, she is pursuing a PhD in Global Business Management through Northcentral University. She enjoys discussing nutrition and business topics with the veterinary profession. She shares her home with cats, dogs and a rabbit and has 2 horses that she enjoys spending time with outside of work.

Welcome everybody to the Kone of Shame Veterinary podcast.

2

I am your host, Dr.

3

Andy Roche.

4

I got a great one for you today with Dr.

5

Flavia Vva.

6

she is a board of vet nutritionist

and a former general practice

7

vet and a, , generally lovely,

wonderful veterinarian and.

8

, very smart person to talk to,

and I'm getting her to break into

9

some nutrition knowledge today.

10

Guys, I wanna talk about life stages.

11

there's a, ton of marketing.

12

it's a lot of marketing and nutrition.

13

In case you haven't heard,

there's a lot of marketing there.

14

I wanna understand the benefits , of

breaking pet diets up into life

15

stages and understand when to make

those transitions and what the

16

benefits of the different stages are.

17

What are the key nutritional drivers of,

. Calling out and defining those stages.

18

And then I also just wanna

get into a large breed.

19

What constitutes a large breed

food versus a standard adult food?

20

What are the benefits, , what

dogs are gonna benefit the

21

most from a large breed diet?

22

And exactly why, again, we're the

nutritional drivers of, those

23

decisions and Flavia is here for it.

24

And so we talk a lot about that.

25

We talk a lot about big changes to Afco

labeling of pet food that's coming in the

26

next couple of years and what that's gonna

look like and the good parts about that.

27

And The parts where, you know, there's

good intent, but maybe it doesn't.

28

Exactly.

29

It's not gonna be maybe a panacea

in all way shapes and form.

30

So anyway, fan freaking,

fantastic episode.

31

Great, great nutritional content.

32

Really good stuff to, , help

shake the dust off and be

33

like, oh yeah, I remember that.

34

That's good stuff.

35

Anyway, guys, this episode is made

possible ad Free by Hills Pet Nutrition.

36

Let's get into it.

37

Kelsey Beth Carpenter: This is your show.

38

We're glad you're here.

39

We want to help you in

your veterinary career.

40

Welcome to the Cone of Shame with Dr.

41

Andy Roark.

42

andy: Welcome to the podcast, Dr.

43

Flavia Vedova.

44

How are you my friend?

45

falvia: I am doing well, Dr.

46

Roarke.

47

Thank you for having me today.

48

How are you?

49

andy: I'm doing great.

50

, it's so much fun to get to talk to you.

51

You are such a neat person.

52

, for those who don't know you, you are a

board of veterinary nutritionist, however

53

you are one of the students of the world.

54

You have a master's degree.

55

You have a DVM.

56

You have an MBA and then you're

also boarded in, , internal medicine

57

nutrition, and , you've practiced in

general practice, you've moved around,

58

you've practiced in industry, you've

just done so many different things.

59

I just think that you're, I think

you're such an interesting person

60

and I like how the way, that you look

at, I look packets and the industry.

61

I love the mixture of a business

background with a medicine background.

62

And so I am just really, , I'm

really thrilled that we get to talk.

63

falvia: Thank you so much.

64

Yeah, I have gotten the good

opportunity to do a lot during my

65

career and I'm really thankful for it.

66

And I'm also really grateful to get to

be here today with you because I was

67

inspired by you during the commencement

68

So this is just a really cool, , kind

of full circle moment for me.

69

So thank you again for having.

70

andy: Well, thanks for saying that.

71

It first of it's always

nice to have a fellow gator.

72

On the podcast.

73

But yeah, that was funny.

74

I, I saw that you graduated

75

I was like, I think I might have spoken

at that graduation it was meant to be.

76

Well, I so appreciate that you're here.

77

let's dive into this.

78

So I've been going through a bit of a

learning journey, , recently as well.

79

My own dog, , who I love is, , he's

complicated and, , he is, unfortunately,

80

I am unearthing , some things.

81

He's got some health problems that are

going along and I am really starting,

82

I'm starting to juggle some things.

83

He's got atopic dermatitis, , he's got

some endocrine stuff that's going on.

84

And so I'm really spending a lot of time

digging into nutrition and diet , and

85

thinking about management of this dog.

86

And he's seven years old, so

he's transitioning from, , adult

87

stage, , into sort of.

88

Senior stage as well.

89

And so I'm looking at all of these

different things and he's got some renal

90

insufficiency, which is not a problem

yet, but I'm looking down the line.

91

So anyway, I am really kind of deep in

the weeds here, and every now and then,

92

I think it's, good for me to get a, a

refresher on some of the key points here.

93

And so I'm looking at this.

94

The big questions that I kind

of have that I wanna get into.

95

I was wondering if you could go back

through and I just wanna, I wanna talk

96

about life stages , and so as he's at

this seven, I was gonna say six seven

97

at six seven, , age range and we're

starting to look at senior diets.

98

Can you go ahead and just start to

speak One I'm gonna ask you about,

99

about life stages and then two, I'm

gonna ask you about lar large breed.

100

'cause he's 55 pounds, things like that.

101

But, but can you start to talk,

not about my dog specifically,

102

but just in general terms.

103

Can you walk me through the

whole life stage philosophy?

104

That's why I'm seeing this.

105

Obviously I, I try to guide patients

in, in getting their pets on the

106

right diet and then I'm getting more

and more people who come back and go,

107

well, this is an all life stages diet.

108

And I, in Sinai, I asked the question.

109

Is that as good?

110

Like if it's just as good, then why don't

all the diets, life stage diet, anyway,

111

I'm gonna start talking about that.

112

Walk me through sort of the general life

stage philosophy and nutrition, and then

113

also like what are the drivers that move

us from one nutritional phase to the next?

114

falvia: That is a really important

topic to kind of go over the foundation.

115

So I think to start at the beginning,

if we think about the guidelines

116

for pet food, when we go back to

Afco guidelines, there's really

117

only two defined nutrient profiles.

118

So one is going to be growth

and reproduction, the other is

119

going to be adult maintenance.

120

Those are the only two that

we currently have defined.

121

There are currently, to your point

about, , senior pets and them having,

122

you know, different nutritional needs.

123

There are diets that are labeled for

senior pets and their nutritional makeup

124

can vary pretty widely depending on

the, , manufacturer, the brand, et cetera.

125

And so generally speaking, I

think first things first, I kind

126

of refer back to, you know, what

defines a senior patient and so.

127

The 2023 Aha.

128

Senior care guidelines reference the

129

state that seniors defined as the

last 25% of the estimated lifespan

130

through the end of their life.

131

So that's what I kind of

use as a starting point.

132

To decide, you know, do I think

that this pet kind of meets that

133

criteria and now we're hearing more

and more some associated terms.

134

So maybe it's not just the biological age

of the pet, but maybe it's also related

135

to their frailty , index, for example,

, immunosenescence and other factors such

136

as inflammaging, which I thought was a

kind of cool, neat term that I'm starting

137

to see in the literature that describes,

how their immune system is changing.

138

As they're, getting older and while age

is not a disease, it is a risk factor

139

for certain diseases which can impact,

their overall health, frailty, et cetera.

140

And so when a pet is determined

to, have, reach that senior status,

141

I start to think about, you know,

what diet were they previously on.

142

So I can compare against that.

143

And what are the key nutritional

factors for that particular patient?

144

In general, and this is going to sometimes

vary based on the patient and on the vet,

145

but senior pets, generally speaking on

the dog side will need increased energy.

146

So more calories, generally speaking,

excluding those patients that have,

147

, conditions that you may wanna perhaps

control the amount of protein, as you

148

mentioned with your dog, like you may be

concerned about maybe early renal disease.

149

So, , excluding patients like him.

150

Protein is usually something

that we're, we're going to wanna

151

increase in a senior patient.

152

Fat is a little bit different as

a macronutrient that can either.

153

The increase or decrease, and it's because

it does provide a good source of calories.

154

So when we think back to our modified

at water factors that I know everyone

155

loves learning in like first year

of vet school, , that provides,

156

more, , kcals pergram, so 8.5

157

kcals per gram as compared

to protein or carbohydrates.

158

And so because it provides more

energy, it provides more calories

159

and therefore if the pet is.

160

Prone to being overweight, then we

may not necessarily wanna increase

161

the fat content of that diet.

162

And the same may go for a patient that

has fat sensitive conditions, whether

163

that's a history of pancreatitis,

, lymphangiectasia, PLE, et cetera.

164

So protein increase, usually fat can be

either increased or decrease depending

165

on the patient and a number of factors.

166

And then getting into some

of the kind of, Adjacent.

167

Yeah.

168

Important nutrient considerations would

be, , polyunsaturated fatty acids.

169

So we know that as pets are

aging, we want to provide those

170

anti-inflammatory effects.

171

And then also antioxidants as

well could be really important

172

in our senior patients.

173

So those are just kind of a snapshot

of the key nutritional factors that

174

may be important for a senior pet.

175

andy: So I, I wanna jump back a a little

bit to when we were talking about what

176

constitutes the shift to a senior pet.

177

, and I, I like your idea of , the estimated

last 25%, but I also think it's really

178

interesting when we're talking about,

the frailty index and,, and like,

179

always look at the patient before you.

180

Flavia.

181

How do you make that call?

182

if I'm coming in, and I'm bringing

my pet in, and let's , say I've got

183

a, I've got a 10-year-old chihuahua

that seems to be in good health.

184

When you look at my little buddy, who's

10, a 10-year-old Chihuahua, I would say

185

is that the last 25% of his expected life?

186

, probably not, , but are there other

factors are there scenarios where you're

187

gonna put one 10-year-old chihuahua

on a senior diet and another 10 chi, a

188

10-year-old chihuahua you're gonna say?

189

That, that chihuahua looks like

she's ready for the chihuahua races.

190

Like she's, she's like in great

health, she's got great musculature.

191

Like are you doing it in a

case by case basis like that?

192

And if so, help, me figure out

like, what makes you make the call.

193

falvia: Yeah, that's a very good

point that, even within the same breed

194

there may be individual variation.

195

And so I would first go based off of the

breed if it is a purebred pet, , because

196

that is what's gonna help us estimate

like what their general lifespan is.

197

And that's a kind of.

198

Big help compared to when we

don't have that starting point.

199

, all my dogs are expre dogs and

so I'm actually gonna have a much

200

harder time, you know, as they age

to making that decision and deciding,

201

you know, when to transition them.

202

I think the other consideration is like,

what is their body condition score?

203

Because energy needs do change

and there's kind of two.

204

Subcategories, if you

will, of senior patients.

205

So we do have some, as I mentioned,

that'll need more energy as they age.

206

So they might have an ineffective

metabolism, they might have multiple

207

comorbidities that are making it hard

for them to maintain their weight.

208

But we also have another

subcategory and this.

209

This may sometimes happen in the

same patient, and that's why it's

210

important to check over time.

211

So the other subcategory is those

that actually, are, , predisposed to

212

more weight gain as they get older.

213

So as they're engaging in

less activity, et cetera.

214

They may actually have less calorie

needs than another senior patient

215

of the same age and the same breed.

216

And so I think it's, in this particular

situation, it has to be on an individual

217

basis because even within the same breed,

you could have two dogs that are within

218

those subcategories that respond very

differently metabolically, and then also.

219

To take into consideration

that you can see a shift.

220

So you can see a dog that

initially has a more ineffective

221

metabolism, needs less calories.

222

But then as they continue to age,

maybe, we're talking about a 10-year-old

223

chihuahua, maybe as we get into a

12, 13, 14-year-old chihuahua, they

224

may have multiple health conditions.

225

By that point, they may

actually need more calories.

226

So I think it, the main points are

gonna be, . The diet history and

227

the comorbidities are usually what

I use to make that decision in

228

the individual patient every time.

229

andy: I know this is a bit of a broad

sort of statement and it's probably

230

gonna vary a lot depending on what

specific diet we're talking about.

231

but I look at, we have some diets

that are all life stages, diets, and

232

then, , I look at, a pet that's on a.

233

On an adult food, and I'm thinking about

moving them to a senior food Flavia.

234

In, in, in broad terms, how significant

from a nutrition profile is the shift

235

from an adult food to a senior food?

236

Is this a minor adjustment?

237

Is this a fairly significant adjustment?

238

And I'm asking that just because

we've got these diets that sort

239

of claim to, to bridge the gap.

240

How much of an adjustment is, that.

241

I think, let me, lemme give you this,

a weird sort of metaphor in that,

242

earlier in my career I was, we were

talking about, , I was managing a

243

nutritional case and I needed to increase

the fiber, , intake for this pat.

244

And I was asking about supplementing

the fiber and I was working with

245

a nutritionist, and this was

back when I was in vet school.

246

, and they were like the like.

247

The difference in adding in supplemental

fiber versus going to a high fiber

248

diet is substantially different.

249

That change in diet is really

substantial in that regard.

250

And so I guess what I'm asking you

is, is it a sort of a similar type of

251

adjustment when we go from adult to

a, , senior diet in terms of impact?

252

or is this a subtle turning of the knobs?

253

how big a shift are we actually making.

254

falvia: Yes, that's a very

challenging question, Dr.

255

Rourke.

256

So the reason it's challenging is

because there isn't a defined afco

257

nutrient profile for senior pets.

258

And so because there isn't standards,

if you will, or guardrails is what

259

we commonly call them, manufacturers

can choose to, , adjust the

260

nutrient profile and label it as a

senior, , dog diet, as they see fit.

261

And so.

262

That doesn't necessarily

correlate with some of the

263

items that I mentioned earlier.

264

So when I was sharing like.

265

this macronutrient should

likely be increased.

266

This one should likely be decreased, this

one can be increased, so on and so forth.

267

Because there aren't, , guidelines or

guardrails, if you will, we wouldn't

268

be able to answer that, generally

speaking, because we'd have to

269

look at what was the previous diet

and what diet are they going to.

270

And so, one tool that I really like

to kind of help with that because it

271

can be tricky to look at a guaranteed

analysis and be able to manually

272

do all the calculations, especially

if you're working in a busy clinic.

273

, I think the best resource I

have for that is the Tufts pet

274

food calculator where you can.

275

You know, look at the guaranteed

analysis, grab , the kcals per

276

kg and the nutrient of interest.

277

So let's say you're interested in

protein, you would grab that percentage,

278

then you would grab the kcals per kg,

that energy density information, you'd

279

plug it into the online calculator and

it would convert that to a grams per.

280

A hundred or a thousand calorie basis,

and that's our standard unit of measures.

281

That would be the best way to,

and the fastest way, , 'cause you

282

can definitely do the calculation.

283

I don't know if Dr.

284

Hill was your professor when

you were at Florida, but maybe

285

remember that we went through those

calculations in his course and.

286

They're great to know, but

they do take a lot of time.

287

So I use the online resource and that

way I'm able to compare apples to

288

apples so I can know how much protein

was it in this one, how much protein

289

are they going to, how much fat was

in this one, how much calcium, how

290

much phosphorus, so on and so forth.

291

So I can go ahead and really

compare apples to apples.

292

andy: that totally makes sense.

293

So I, I've heard that pet food

labeling regulations are gonna change

294

significantly in the next few years.

295

Can you touch on that

and what that looks like?

296

falvia: Yes.

297

So that was, , the Pet Food

Label Modernization Act.

298

That was in the 2024 afco publication.

299

And companies have six years

to implement those changes.

300

So while you may see some of this

reflected in market products today,

301

technically they don't all have to

302

think it's good to kind of go over

what are the key points of difference.

303

The goal of it was to make

it easier for consumers to

304

understand, have more transparency.

305

And as a result of that, the

items that they either changed

306

or added were the following.

307

So, having a product purpose

statement or what's also called as.

308

An intended use statement, , shifting

the GA or the guaranteed analysis to

309

what looks more like a human, , food

label that is now being called

310

the Pet Nutrition Facts Box.

311

Then we have changes to the handling and

storage instructions and to the ingredient

312

statement, but the most important

of these are probably the top two.

313

So those are the ones that I'll focus on.

314

with the product purpose statement

now, , the word complete has to appear on

315

the lower front panel of the packaging,

and that's really important because

316

what we're seeing, you know, more and

more is a lot of products that are

317

like toppers or mix-ins or, , know

items that are supposed to be for

318

intermittent, or supplemental feeding

that they're not meant to be complete.

319

I balance, and unless that's

Highlighted to the pet owner.

320

They may not know that and

they may be feeding it as

321

the sole source of nutrition.

322

So with that change on the packaging,

it should say something to the

323

effect of, complete food for, and

then list the life stage after that.

324

And it should also have some limitations,

like if it's only meant for, Puppies

325

that are gonna be less than 70

pounds as an adult, for example.

326

It has to kind of list that on there.

327

And the reason that's important, not

only for the, , aforementioned , reasons,

328

but it's also important because now

we have to maybe pay a little bit more

329

attention to those all life stage.

330

Foods because with this packaging

change, you have to look for the life

331

stage indicator to know that it is

indicated for that particular profile.

332

If it doesn't indicate that, then it may

be an all life stage food, which generally

333

speaking my personal, you know, philosophy

on this is I think, over supplementing

334

certain vitamins or minerals is not ideal.

335

And so when you formulate a, a life stage

food, you're feeding to the highest level.

336

To meet those requirements for, those life

stages that are really demanding, like

337

growth, like reproduction, , et cetera.

338

And so that's not necessarily something

that A senior pet or even an adult pet,

339

depending on its, you know, individual

needs and, conditions may benefit from.

340

And there's also the potential that

maybe there could be excessive levels

341

of those for that particular life stage

that were appropriate for growth and

342

reproduction, but may no longer be

appropriate in these other life stages.

343

And I think the distinction is, While

they may be following the guidelines,

344

they may just not be optimally appropriate

for that individual patient because there

345

can be so much variation across, , pets.

346

andy: When you think about the labeling

changes and you think about kind of a

347

shift more towards like human nutrition

labels and things like that, on a

348

scale of one to 10, where one is I

hate this change and 10 is like, this

349

is amazing, this is gonna be so great

for pets, , where are you personally

350

on your like, love for this change?

351

falvia: Yes.

352

that is a hard question because

I think the intention was great.

353

I think, you know, more transparency,

making it easier to read that would

354

make everybody's lives easier.

355

The pet owner, the veterinarian,

the nutritionist, and then it

356

would ultimately benefit the pet.

357

However, I think the challenge

with this is, is that we.

358

Eat very differently than pets.

359

So not only do we eat a variety

of foods, but generally speaking

360

there's like a recommended daily

allowance of calories for humans.

361

So then you could use that fax box

to kind of extrapolate for yourself

362

in a pet, their energy needs vary

widely because dogs are some of the

363

most, genetically diverse species out

there, and so they don't have similar.

364

Energy requirements, you know,

from a very small chihuahua like we

365

were talking about up to, I have

a great Pyrenees mix, for example.

366

So they're gonna have very

different energy needs.

367

And so I think the challenge is that the

intent was very good, but in executing

368

it and listing the grams per cup, I think

that will sometimes make it a little

369

bit harder because we don't have defined

standards in the veterinary nutrition

370

world for, How many grams per cup of

protein is ideal or is recommended?

371

so we would have to, again, like we do

currently, we would have to, for each

372

individual patient, go through and

make, the determination based off of

373

those calculations, which is possible

to do, but it's still time consuming.

374

And I think we're going in the right

direction with labeling changes and

375

trying to make them easier to understand.

376

I just.

377

I'm curious to see how this shakes out.

378

So I guess my final score would

be like somewhere in the middle.

379

I'd probably be like a five.

380

andy: All right.

381

I like that a lot.

382

Can you talk to me a little bit about

the difference between standard and

383

large breed nutritional profiles?

384

Like when I'm thinking about large

breed, , large breed dogs versus my

385

, standard breeds, what are you looking at?

386

What's, important when I'm

picking a diet for them and

387

what am I paying attention to?

388

falvia: Yes.

389

So for large breed dogs, I'm

gonna start with large breed

390

puppies, but before I, um.

391

andy: Okay.

392

falvia: I get into that, I'm going to

give the caveat and just, kind of go back

393

to those Afco pro profiles and saying

that there is only one afco nutrient

394

profile for growth and reproduction,

but there are some key nutrients that

395

are different for large breed puppies.

396

And so generally speaking, , with

puppies, they're going to, , have,

397

higher energy requirements for growth.

398

I can go into kind of those

life stage factors in a bit,

399

if you wanted to cover them.

400

, they can vary a little bit on the source,

but generally speaking they have higher

401

energy requirements, protein, higher

requirements than adult maintenance.

402

Fat is another important consideration.

403

There's a higher requirement

and there's also.

404

The importance of DHA in our,

, growing dogs to help promote healthy

405

neural and retinal development.

406

They also can benefit from highly

digestible diets as well as having

407

different calcium and phosphorus

requirements than adult dogs.

408

And more so in our large breed dogs,

, overfeeding high levels of calcium,

409

can lead to skeletal abnormalities.

410

And so both the amount

of calcium as well as it.

411

Proportion to phosphorus and the

ratio between the two is really

412

important in large breed puppies

moving into large breed dogs.

413

I would say, you know, the main

considerations there are, we wanna

414

be really careful with monitoring

their body condition, muscle condition

415

score to prevent overfeeding, you

know, having these guys be overweight.

416

Which is true for any dog, but

particularly those that are maybe

417

more predisposed to, , musculoskeletal

conditions like large breed dogs, having

418

them be overweight or obese can really

be, , detrimental to their health.

419

And that kind of segues nicely into a

lot of large breed dogs and joint issues.

420

So those are kind of the two, You know,

main factors that I look out for when I'm

421

thinking about large free dog nutrition,

they can also have some GI differences.

422

So if we're thinking about our giant

free dogs, sometimes, and this is

423

anecdotal and experiential, there's

maybe one or two papers on this, but

424

I do think sometimes they can benefit

from a higher fiber content, than some

425

of our smaller and medium breed dogs.

426

And that has to do with the kind

of, colonic transit time, et cetera.

427

And so.

428

I think generally speaking, large breed

puppies are very, very different from

429

feeding small and medium breeded puppies.

430

And then as we move into large breed

dogs, the main areas of focus would be

431

on their weight and on their joints.

432

andy: Can you elaborate a little bit

more on sort of calcium and phosphorus,

433

, in large breed dogs, and especially

during growth and kind of what you,

434

pay attention to there and, yeah,

just unpack that for me a little bit.

435

falvia: Yeah, I'm glad you asked.

436

So I mentioned earlier that there are some

key nutritional differences when we're

437

thinking about the standards, , based

on afco, and one of them is for calcium.

438

The calcium maximum per

afco is going to be 6.25

439

for.

440

, all puppies except for large puppies,

where the maximum is going to be 4.5.

441

And so that's really the key difference,

and that's one of the, if you kind of

442

read the sub notes, I guess, if you

will, on the AFCO profiles, that is one

443

important distinction between the two.

444

The other consideration, as

I kind of alluded to earlier,

445

is the ratio between the two.

446

So.

447

in our smaller breed puppies, you know,

that ratio can be a little bit wider,

448

because we don't have quite the same

level of concern about developmental

449

orthopedic disease that we do in our

larger breed dogs, but in large breed

450

dogs, we do wanna try to maintain

that ratio to be a lot smaller.

451

So we typically want it to be between 1.1

452

to 1.5

453

to one, and that's,

because we're trying to.

454

Keep that narrow range so that

they can hopefully grow and

455

develop as normally as possible.

456

andy: So you yourself have mixed breed

dogs we talked about earlier, , and.

457

I guess my question is kind of

around that, like what constitutes

458

a large breed dog Flavia?

459

Like, so if, you've got a pet

owner and you, they're like,

460

I don't know what this is.

461

, and you were kind of looking at

this dog, how do you do that?

462

Is there a weight limit for you?

463

Is it 50 pounds?

464

Is it 60, 70 pounds?

465

What do you start to look at when you're

trying to make the best recommendations,

466

especially for puppies and you're kinda

looking at their growth trajectory.

467

Where do you make the call and say,

I think that this specific pet is

468

gonna benefit more from a large breed,

, profile , than a standard profile.

469

Like what, how do you do that?

470

falvia: Yes, good question.

471

So, large breed, typically we

define that as greater than 55

472

pounds, ideal weight as an adult.

473

And so when there are puppies

that can be tricky to kind of,

474

guesstimate or extrapolate.

475

So I'll go based off of, any

information I have available.

476

So if it's a puppy that I've seen before,

, I kind of track, you know, what they've

477

been gaining and extrapolate from there.

478

If it's a purebred dog, you know,

that makes it obviously a lot easier.

479

I can just look at the estimated adult

weights, if I'm kind of on the fence.

480

So I have one dog that

actually is right at 54 pounds.

481

so I am in that situation myself.

482

He's not a puppy, but, I do err on the

side of caution and if I think there's,

483

a chance that he's maybe gonna gain a

pound or two, , then I usually will feed

484

him, I do feed them a large formula.

485

andy: We've talked about

a lot of different things.

486

When you think about the field of

nutrition, what are you most excited

487

about or interested in right now?

488

falvia: I think what I'm most

excited about is nutrition

489

is still a young science.

490

I said that when I was interviewing for

residency physicians five years ago,

491

and I still think that is true today.

492

Meaning that, , there's so much that

we're learning and discovering, in pet

493

nutrition and how to really optimize.

494

their health.

495

And I really like this idea that we're

hearing more and more about that.

496

It's not just about their lifespan,

but about their health span.

497

And since, feeding our pets is

something we have to do every single

498

day, I really, , am appreciative

of this field where we really are

499

trying to do our best to optimize

their health span as much as we can.

500

And so I think there's a lot

we've learned and a lot left to

501

learn, which is really exciting.

502

andy: That's outstanding.

503

Dr.

504

Flavia Vva, thank you

so much for being here.

505

Where can people, what are your

favorite resources for people

506

who are like, I just, I want con

continue to build this knowledge.

507

I, I want to be well

versed in, in nutrition.

508

I want to make good

recommendations for my clients.

509

What are your favorite resources?

510

falvia: Yes, I think there's

a number of good ones.

511

, some of the ones I refer back

to often are the World Small

512

Animal Veterinary, , guidelines.

513

So ava, they have great, resources

toolkits, B-C-S-M-C-S charts, et cetera.

514

Some of the items that I mentioned

earlier, for more specific

515

product information or disease

centric information, hills pet.com

516

or hills vet.com,

517

and then the Tufts Vet calculator is

really helpful just when you're in a

518

busy clinic and you're trying to just.

519

Be able to compare foods and labels

and really do that in a timely fashion.

520

I find that incredibly helpful as well.

521

Last resource I do refer

to a lot is balance it.com.

522

They have a guaranteed analysis converter

on there as well that can convert to

523

metabolizable energy, which can be

really beneficial in some cases as well.

524

So those are kind of my handful

of resources that our go-tos.

525

andy: that's fantastic.

526

I will link those up in the show notes.

527

Thank you so much for being here, Flavia.

528

Guys, thanks for tuning in and listening

to everybody take care of yourselves.

529

falvia: you so much, Dr.

530

Work.

531

I hope you have a good rest of your day.

532

andy: And that's what I got guys.

533

Thanks for being here.

534

Thanks to Hills Pet Nutrition

for making this episode possible.

535

Thanks to, Flavia for being here

and being such a wonderful guest.

536

, it was so wild to see her and she

was like, you spoke at my graduation,

537

and I was like, oh my gosh.

538

I did how the time flies.

539

So anyway, guys, so much fun.

540

Thanks for being here, gang.

541

Take care of yourselves.

542

I'll see you guys later on.