If love is the meaning of creation, then how exactly does that play out in our individual lives? What is MY purpose? What will my future life be like?

That is what we tackle in this episode.

Hello, Daniel, Nathan.

2

Good to see you again.

3

Good to see you again as well.

4

Excited to continue on our

conversation from last time.

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Yeah.

6

We were talking about how love is what

preceded the universe because God has

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existed and in an eternal community that

we call Trinity and how the purpose of

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the creation, the why behind the creation

is, is God's expansive, self giving love

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for the good of others So it's been a lot.

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It's good to continue to unpack it today.

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We want to talk about something

that's uniquely Christian, which

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is the Christ event, right?

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The incarnation, the arrival of Jesus.

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We could put it in technical

terms or general terms.

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So anyway, so let's talk about the

incarnation, how that fits into our

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understanding of God's love and God's

purposes for humanity and creation.

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Yeah, let's do that.

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Just as a reminder from the last episode.

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We said that the reason God created all

things was an act of love, love being

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defined as giving of oneself to meet

the ultimate needs of the other person.

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And then we kind of fleshed that out.

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We looked at John 17 and Ephesians

1 that talked about this.

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And we talked about the love

that existed before creation.

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And one of the things I was going

to mention there that I didn't, I

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was looking at my aquarium today,

and I was thinking through some of

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the things we were talking about.

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And I'm like, why did

I create this aquarium?

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And part of it was the same

reason that we create anything.

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So whenever you've written

a few songs before, right?

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So you write a song,

your wife writes a poems.

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Now that I know, why do we do that?

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It's an expression of who we are.

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It's an expression of who we are.

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So I didn't have to create that.

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Uh, I could have had someone else create

that aquarium and put it in my office.

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If all I wanted was a

pretty scene to look at.

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But no, I wanted to do it myself

because it was an expression of

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Some beauty that I wanted to see.

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I mean, it's, it's anytime we design a

room or we shop for clothes or anything.

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I mean, a lot of those are ways in

which we kind of express ourselves.

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The brands we choose.

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I mean, everything is, is an,

is an expression of the self.

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Right.

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And that's a fundamentally human thing.

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Yeah, if we're made in the image

of God, then it probably makes

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sense that when God creates, it's

also an expression of who he is.

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Oh, that's, that's a neat thought.

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Yeah, that's cool.

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Yeah, but he is love.

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It just, I mean, just thinking

looking outside and seeing the

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color, especially around springtime.

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Yeah, the, the beauty of the birds singing

and vibrant colors and all that stuff.

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That's, that's pretty neat to think of

that as an expression of God's heart.

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Well today, I want to go a little

bit further and we're going to talk

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about How Christianity gives an

answer for that, that also tells

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us a little bit in broad outline.

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We may not understand everything, but

in broad outline, how God does that.

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How does God bring this

love into this creation?

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And then how does that love

interact with us as humans?

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Sounds good.

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Let's do it.

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Okay.

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Well, the place to start here,

I think is in John chapter one.

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So John chapter one is fairly well known.

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I think it's also the philosophically

deepest chapter in the entire Bible.

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That, wow, that's a bold statement.

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It is.

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Maybe Genesis 1 would rival that,

but I think this even goes beyond

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that, because it's based upon Genesis

1, but it goes, in a sense, deeper.

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Okay, so how much am I reading here?

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Well, why don't you start

just by reading verse 1.

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In the beginning was the Word, And the

word was with God and the word was God.

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All right.

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And you probably know what

the word, translated word is.

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Yeah.

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That's an uppercase W.

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Right.

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It's going to talk here in a second

about the word being made flesh.

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So that's the, that's the logos.

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Right.

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So the Greek word is logos.

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Yeah.

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Now there has been a lot of things

written about what logos means, but

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primarily if you look and you research

all of that, There are two primary things

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that this word means, and John is tying

them both together here because this

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logos, this Jesus fulfills them both.

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So in the Old Testament, this

word would be used, in the Greek

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translation of the Old Testament,

for just the word of the Lord.

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So think of how many times God said, Thus

saith the Lord, or the Lord says this.

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Mm.

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And all those times, the idea is

that God is revealing to humanity

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something about himself, his

plan, his purpose for humanity.

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He's revealing something about him

to them that they need to know.

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Yeah, that's a lot of times.

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Yeah, it is.

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And especially his heart

about who he is, right?

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So that is one strand.

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That's one part of this, that

when John chooses this word, he's

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very consciously choosing a word.

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It harkens back to that.

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But the other strand of that is

that this word is also very key

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in Greek philosophy and thought.

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Remember, he's writing

in the Greek language.

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Many of his audience members are

going to be those who are thoroughly

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formed in, in the Greek culture.

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Well, pretty much all of them.

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Mm hmm.

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Yeah.

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So they're living under Roman rule,

but it's really Greek culture.

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Yeah.

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So it's, it's deeply Hellenized.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's a deeply Hellenistic culture.

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And because of that, there is

this tradition within intellectual

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thought, which has influenced,

you know, pretty much everybody.

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That the Logos here means something

like the first principle or the

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rational essence of all that there is.

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First principle of rationality, the first

principle of creation or the world, the

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ultimate rational principle by which all

things kind of hold together or consist.

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So different Greek philosophers

would put it different ways.

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I believe it goes all the

way back to Heraclitus.

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I think he was the first one to use this.

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The word Logos in a philosophical

sense, and that was a long

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time even before Plato.

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So it has all that weight on it, that

this is the, the rational principle,

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the underlying essence of the universe.

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That's why, by the way, the

word logic is based on Logos.

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Yeah.

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So you see that right away.

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And that's why, because it has

that idea within Greek thought.

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John's taking those two together, and

he's saying the ultimate rational purpose

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or meaning of the universe, and the

word of the Lord by which he expresses

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himself, and who he is, and what he is

saying to all mankind, is all wrapped up.

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In this person, Jesus of Nazareth,

that's an amazing statement.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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Can I read that one more time?

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Yeah.

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With, with that in mind.

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It says, in the beginning

was the word and the word was

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with God and the word was God.

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So that's, I mean, that's even, you

get the, the union there, the oneness,

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but you also get the distinction.

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Exactly.

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That's, that's, yeah, that's deep.

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Right.

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Right.

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So he's combining both these,

but also saying that this in some

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way is identified with God, even

though it's also distinct from God.

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So this is a kind of the, one

of the foundational verses for

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thinking about the Trinity.

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So this is what he has in mind.

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This Logos was with God.

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All things are going to be created through

him as it goes on in the next verses.

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So he's further described as

being the light in this passage.

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So why don't you go ahead and read

verses 9 through 14 of John chapter 1.

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Okay, so it says, The true light

that gives light to everyone

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was coming into the world.

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He was in the world, and though

the world was made through him,

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the world did not recognize him.

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He came to that which was his own,

but his own did not receive him.

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Yet to all who did receive him, to

those who believed in his name, he gave

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the right to become children of God.

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Not out of natural descent,

nor of human decision, or of a

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husband's will, but born of God.

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The Word, again, uppercase

W, the Word became flesh and

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made His dwelling among us.

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We have seen His glory, the glory of

the one and only Son, who came from

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the Father, full of grace and truth.

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This is an amazing, amazing claim.

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What John is saying here is that Distinct

from God and yet equal with God is

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someone he calls the Logos and the Light.

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And that this One existed eternally

with God, through Him all things

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were made, and yet, He is able

to step into this creation.

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So, by Himself, in His nature, this

Logos person does not have a body,

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but He is able to take on this

physical body like that we have.

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And the word he uses there,

the word became flesh.

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Greek word is sark, which just means

flesh, just like you and I would

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have, and that's why it's called

the incarnation because if you go

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to, uh, to Latin, carne is flesh.

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Yeah.

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Just like in many of the romance

languages, chili, carn, carne is Mm-Hmm.

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chili with meat.

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Carne asada.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, exactly.

189

That's the same idea.

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So incarnation means in flesh of

something that was of a person

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who was not in fleshed before.

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So.

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That Christ was with God and

was God in the beginning, before

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creation, then becoming made known.

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So that's, that's why we talk about

Jesus as being God in the flesh.

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Yes.

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Okay.

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Yes.

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So, so Christ did not exist, did not come

into existence when he was conceived.

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Exactly.

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And the orthodox formulation, very simple,

is there was never a time when he was not.

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And that's going to be difficult for

us to understand how that works, but

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that's Orthodox Christianity right there.

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So I was reading this lately, and I

pulled out my Greek New Testament,

205

and I'm just going to flex here

because, hey, I know Greek.

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Uh, anyway, I was looking up that

word where it says in one place,

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And then right before that, it

talked about how those who receive

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him become children of God.

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So they become like God in some way.

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And that's primarily the emphasis

on childhood, I think, in this

211

passage, is that we become united

with God, but also are like him.

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So we become like God and he

became flesh, and I looked it

213

up, and it's the same Greek word.

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The root of that is genome i.

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Um, which means to be or become, but

I'm thinking, wait, so John is self

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consciously putting that same verb

together right next to each other.

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He became flesh and because

he has done that, we're able

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to become God or like God.

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Yeah.

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We don't become God ontologically.

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Thank you.

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Yeah.

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But we become children of God.

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That's what I meant to say.

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Yeah.

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So obviously in my mind, he linking

those two up and you know, we talked

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before about how, in one sense, we would

not say, The God is in this universe

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of becoming, he's in the existence

of being, and yet here he enters into

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this world of becoming so that we

can become something that we weren't.

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He becomes something that we weren't.

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That he wasn't, in a sense, so

that we could become something

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that we weren't either.

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That's a beautiful thought to me.

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Uh, St.

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Irenaeus says he became what we

are so we might become like, or

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so we might become what he is.

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Yes.

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And you can misread that.

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Like I said, God has an ontological status

as the creator distinct from this universe

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and we're not ever going to be that.

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But in the sense that we become

spiritual beings in connection with him.

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And like him in what we value and

think and do, that is what I think is

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involved and that's a wondrous thing.

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Yeah.

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That's what's the, what's the

technical term deification.

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Yeah.

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But again, I think that you

don't want to get it mixed up.

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That says too much to me that

word really, but we increasingly

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take on certain attributes of God.

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While never being able to fully

take on his attributes that we've

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talked about in the past, right?

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So we don't become the God but

we become in a sense God like.

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Yeah, that's really neat I could see

that as we increasingly grow in knowledge

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of certain spiritual realities Mm hmm

as we take on the divine characteristic

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of love as we go and participate in

the realization of his kingdom Yeah.

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On earth as it is in heaven.

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Yeah.

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Through prayer and through action.

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It makes sense, but like you said,

you got to not take it too far.

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We don't, we don't get brought into

the oneness like an Eastern thought.

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No, no, we are not dissolved into God.

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We are distinct from him

and always lesser than him.

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In, in the ontological sense,

but this idea of union and

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likeness is at the heart.

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And I think that's why he chooses the

phrase children of God, because children

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are close emotionally united with their,

with their parent, with their father.

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And also, especially in the ancient

world, the idea was that the child

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would do what the father was doing.

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They're going to be like him in that.

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So nine times out of ten, if

your father was a fisherman,

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you would be a fisherman also.

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So that's the idea of likeness of

character, likeness of action, and,

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and union with God is I think what's

at the heart of being children of God.

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One other way to talk about this though,

is to think through the two words that

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the New Testament uses to talk about life.

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And both of these are applied

to human life, one potentially

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one that we all have.

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And those two words are bios and zoe.

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So bios, we get biology from that,

zoos, we get zoology from that,

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but we shouldn't get hung up.

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Those are modern ways that

we've attached study to them.

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It's not, that's not the

distinction between biology and

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zoology that is involved in those

two words as it's used here.

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But rather those two words are used very

specifically to talk about a natural

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kind of life that we're born with.

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And kind of life that is a gift to

those who have placed their trust in

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our following Christ, that he offers

to anyone who will receive that in you,

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in being united with him in that way.

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So, bias life.

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Basically, it's the life that

we share with the animals in

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which we are self seeking.

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We self seek, we seek our own needs,

we seek our own desires, and we live

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in that sense like higher animals.

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We have rationality.

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But the goal of our life pretty much

is the same goal as the animals.

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We want security.

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We want comfort.

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We want the things that bring us pleasure.

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Okay?

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Zoe life is life of a different kind.

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It's life of a different realm.

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And that's why, even though they're both

translated as life in our English Bibles,

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the Greek New Testament does not do that.

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They use different words.

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It uses bios and zoe.

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And we're born with bios life, but zoe

life is a gift that we can receive.

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And this is what it's talking about, say,

in John 3, 16, for God so loved the world

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that he gave his only begotten son, that

whoever believes in him, whoever places

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their trust in him will have eternal

zoe, not bios, we already have that, but

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this gift of life that we don't yet have.

311

It's the life of the kingdom of God.

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Amen.

313

And eternal, that word there, doesn't

just primarily mean duration, it's a,

314

it's a quality word, not a quantity word.

315

Literally it is eons.

316

So life of the age, some translations

will even translate it that way.

317

Life, the zoe of the ages, the life of the

age to come is the idea that there will be

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a time where this world will be changed.

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And when that happens, there is this new

kingdom of God who comes, new creation.

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So a new heaven and a new earth.

321

And in that realm will be those

creatures made in the image of God

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who have a Zoe type of existence.

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That is a gift that's now offered, even

though we don't receive that gift in

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its fullness until new creation comes.

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So tasted now, consumed later.

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Yes.

327

Yeah.

328

Love that.

329

So, uh, that's John's thought.

330

Okay.

331

So this is the weird language that we

use as Christians about being born again.

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Right.

333

That's kind of what's going on here.

334

Exactly.

335

So you're born into a new kind of life.

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You're born into zoe life.

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Okay.

338

Okay.

339

So Nicodemus was correctly confused when

when Jesus said you got to be born again.

340

He's like, I'm too big to Yeah, go

fit back up there and then yeah, right

341

exactly be born of my mom again, but

okay so so you're born physically and

342

then you're You're born again, or you

receive the, the ZOE gift of life.

343

Is the ZOE gift of life, trying to think

through how that relates to the BIOS life.

344

I mean, the ZOE life, you still have

to eat and drink, and to what degree

345

is it physical or is it just spiritual?

346

Like, how, how can we think about that?

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Yeah, good question, because I think one

of the main problems we have thinking

348

about what Christianity is all about

is that we think when we hear the

349

word eternal life that's opportunist.

350

We're thinking a bios life that

just extends a long time, right?

351

Yeah, and that sounds really boring to

be honest We're just gonna go in heaven

352

and live in this disembodied cloud like

existence and I'd do anything forever It's

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up maybe at worship services to be frank.

354

I would not want that That's one of the

reasons to understand God's purpose.

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We have to understand He's not

talking about extending this

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bios life that we have forever.

357

It's a Zoe life now You Is that material?

358

Yes, it is material.

359

This is a good physical

universe that God has created.

360

He does not want to do away with it.

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He wants to perfect it and remake it.

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So we will have an existence

at least as physical, if not

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more than what we have now.

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And the analogy Paul uses in 1

Corinthians 15, It says, imagine

365

if you wanted to plant some crop.

366

I'm going to use a tree, he uses weed, but

say if you want to plant, uh, an, you want

367

an acorn tree to grow on your property.

368

How do you do that?

369

Well, you, yeah, you, you plant seed.

370

So do you go to someone else's

property that has an oak tree and

371

maybe dig it out of the ground, get

a huge equipment, dig this gigantic

372

hole in your yard and bury the tree?

373

No.

374

No.

375

Paul says, exactly.

376

So what you do is you plant an acorn.

377

That acorn dies to its acorn

life, but it doesn't disintegrate.

378

There's a continuity and a discontinuity.

379

It discontinues as an acorn, but

the continuity is because of that.

380

It has the potential.

381

To create an entirely different kind of

thing, an oak tree is to have an acorn.

382

So there's continuity with the essence

of what that is and what that can become.

383

What it is changes forms.

384

Yes.

385

So that's the illustration

to we are, we are the seed.

386

Right now.

387

And the, the zoe, the fulfillment of

the zoe life will be like the oak tree.

388

Exactly.

389

Wow.

390

And the oak tree is just as physical.

391

So Paul does not envision that

we won't have a physical body,

392

but it will be a fundamentally

different kind of physical body.

393

Um, and that, again, that's

in 1 Corinthians 15 if someone

394

wants to, to research that.

395

But one analogy I've thought of and

I've kind of used before, it's almost

396

like through the offer of Christ,

because of what He has done, we who

397

are stones, who would naturally just

go into the ground and be buried

398

and forgotten, can now become seeds.

399

Mm.

400

And a seed goes in the ground, it's

buried, it dies as a seed, but it's

401

raised up as to something entirely

different and larger and more beautiful.

402

That's an indication that we will have a

physical body, to answer your question.

403

Will we eat and drink and have sex?

404

I don't know.

405

Suspect probably not, at least in the

sense that we participate in those

406

things now, but I could be wrong.

407

Yeah.

408

One of the metaphors in the last chapter

of Revelation talks about the tree

409

that produces fruit in each season.

410

I mean, to what degree is

that literal and metaphorical?

411

I mean, of course that's a beautiful

metaphor for flourishing and not

412

lacking and that kind of thing.

413

But yeah.

414

C.

415

S.

416

Lewis had a couple good

illustrations that I think are

417

worthwhile for us to think through.

418

One of these he called the good infection.

419

And so he wanted to talk about how

this new life that Christ has, as this

420

perfect human can affect us today.

421

Now obviously in one sense,

he is the penalty for sin.

422

So there is that theological sense.

423

But how does that work in

more of an organic sense?

424

And one of the things he talks about

is that we err in thinking that we

425

as humans are discreet individuals

that don't affect each other.

426

So we're not, for example, 10

pennies sitting on a table that

427

look alike, but they're discreet.

428

So if I move one, I don't move any of

the others necessarily, but instead.

429

He says, think of us as points

or branches, or leaves on a

430

very large and complex tree.

431

Or think of us like a human body

where we are all interconnected.

432

So two pennies sitting on a

table look exactly alike, almost.

433

They're not connected.

434

My nose and my lungs don't look

alike, but they are connected.

435

Yeah.

436

There is this organic unity.

437

So he says, think about a way that.

438

If you had a good infection, if you

had an antibiotic to some disease that

439

was affecting you and that started in

one place but eventually worked its way

440

through this whole body, that's what

the incarnation, he says, is doing.

441

So it's caffeine.

442

Now you've got to read my illustration,

or his illustration in this case.

443

that's an interesting way of putting it.

444

If you look at humanity as this

heim line tree, this tree that

445

grows fuller and bushier with time.

446

He even says that the

effects can work backwards.

447

And we talked about causation

working backwards a little bit.

448

Oh, yeah.

449

A couple episodes ago.

450

I don't know.

451

That's hard for us to picture.

452

Yeah, we can't really conceptualize

it, but it's an interesting

453

philosophical, thought exercise.

454

Yeah, it is.

455

It is.

456

And so I think that idea, there's

something to that, that what happens

457

when the Logos takes on Sark is that

Sark itself is changed, Sark being

458

again flesh, human flesh is changed.

459

It has now the potential to be and to do

something that it did not have before.

460

And I don't know if I can explain

that, but to me, there's something that

461

happens to the nature of humanity itself.

462

Um, when Christ becomes man.

463

one other illustration

he gives is toy soldiers.

464

did you ever play with army men as a kid?

465

Oh yeah.

466

That was my favorite toy.

467

G.

468

I.

469

Joe's.

470

Yeah, but I had They've been

around for a while, haven't they?

471

Yeah.

472

I had the little ones.

473

Well, let's go with the G.

474

I.

475

Joe.

476

So you've got a G.

477

I.

478

Joe doll.

479

him Action.

480

Action figure.

481

Please come on.

482

Not dolls.

483

So imagine if you've got your 12 inch G.

484

I.

485

Joe action figure.

486

Thank you.

487

Yeah.

488

And what if you had the power

to turn him into a real human?

489

So, not only a 12 inch human,

but a regular sized human.

490

And he does a thought experiment.

491

He says, You know, if someone outside

that person had that power to make them,

492

and maybe they could exercise that power

You could see why some might not want to

493

give their consent to that, or why some

in the middle of that process would feel

494

like they were being ruined instead.

495

Mm.

496

All their plastic is being spoiled.

497

Everything that they know.

498

Everything that they know.

499

Their plastic is being spoiled

because it's no longer going to be

500

plastic, it's going to be change.

501

the world that they're adapted to with

their, tanks and boats and motorcycles,

502

Are no longer going to be adequate

because now they're, different.

503

and, and the very materials that

they're made of, like we talked

504

about, are going to be changed.

505

You can see that from one perspective,

that's a loss of who they were, but in

506

another perspective, it's culmination of

something better than they were, better

507

than what they could have imagined.

508

But if you only look at what is

lost and what's spoiled, then you

509

understand why then you understand

why sometimes the good news It doesn't

510

seem as good as it should to us.

511

Yeah, because it's, outside

of our natural framework.

512

Yes, and we can't really conceptualize

the goodness that it will be.

513

Hmm, yeah, other than,

through certain metaphors.

514

Best we can do.

515

Yeah, which is scary.

516

Yeah, so C.

517

S.

518

Lewis said toy soldiers.

519

Walt Disney said Pinocchio.

520

Yeah, there you go.

521

Wow, that's equal parts beautiful and.

522

Also kind of, scary because there

is a transformation process, um,

523

a metamorphosis, so to speak.

524

you know, there's fear of

unknown there for sure.

525

So there is now last time we

talked about how God's ultimate

526

purpose in the universe was love.

527

And that's I want to come back to you

as we kind of begin to wrap this up.

528

All this is an act of God by which

he offers our ultimate good to be

529

more than we could ever imagine.

530

We don't see that yet, so we have

to trust him, but because he's

531

created us with free wills and not

automatons that just have to do his

532

bidding, it is still a choice to us.

533

But ultimately the goal of that is not

to create a bunch of good people, not to

534

create a bunch of religious adherents.

535

It's to create a new race of humanity

that has a different kind of life, a zoe

536

life, united with Christ Jesus himself,

who is the image of all the heart and

537

the wisdom of God within this universe.

538

It's taking that hereditary circle

of love and expanding it outward.

539

to include us in that way.

540

I heard a good illustration

of what this looks like.

541

I don't know if it's a true story or not.

542

It's one of those where, if

it's not true, it should be.

543

these soldiers were fighting in France.

544

These American soldiers were fighting

in France during World War II and

545

one of their buddies was killed.

546

And they went to the nearest

church that they could find.

547

to try to bury him.

548

they went to the priest there

because it was a Catholic church,

549

like most churches in France are.

550

And they wanted to bury him in the church

graveyard, because very often in, in

551

the old world, their graveyard's right

there as part of the church grounds.

552

And the priest said, you know, I'm sorry,

but I can't because we have rules that

553

only those who are Catholics can be

buried within this Catholic churchyard.

554

and your friend was not a Catholic

and they're disappointed, but

555

they go outside the gate, they go

outside the fence of the graveyard.

556

And they find a place

and they bury him there.

557

Some years later, they

come back after the war.

558

Four or five years later, they come back.

559

To revisit and process some of

their emotions to honor the grave

560

of their friend that they lost.

561

And they come back, well, church

is still there, fence is still

562

there, graveyard is still there.

563

But the stone they put up to mark

their buddy's grave is, gone.

564

There's no indication that

there's any grave at all.

565

And they're really confused.

566

And they go back to the church then

and they ask the priest about it.

567

And he said, you know what?

568

Uh, here's what happened, guys.

569

After you left, I began realizing

how unjust our rule was, especially

570

in circumstances like these.

571

So what I did was, I expanded the fence.

572

I expanded the fence to

include, your buddy there.

573

I think of that story when I think

of God, kind of expanding the circle

574

of predatory love to include us.

575

in the life of God, as it

were, in the love of God.

576

it's an amazing thing to me.

577

That's beautiful.

578

And it's just so helpful to think through,

God's not going to force it on us.

579

It is our choice and it can be a fearful

choice because there's a different kind

580

of love and life that we're invited to.

581

But, you sharing how it's a

different quality of life.

582

God knows what's best for us and

he can give us what's best for us.

583

In fact, he wants to give us what's

best for us and he's given up himself

584

in order to give what's best for us.

585

But we have to, choose to

surrender to that process.

586

Just let the caterpillar

choose it to surrender to the

587

process by which it's given up.

588

He or she becomes a butterfly.

589

Yeah.

590

Of course they do it instinctually.

591

We have to make the

choice, but yes, the idea.

592

it's a different quality of life.

593

Again, just going back to the

beginning here the definition, love

594

giving of itself for the good of

another person, trusting that God is

595

the one who can really define that

for us is really important here.

596

especially in light of the other.

597

A lot of times we've talked about this,

like, God who has created us, who exists

598

fundamentally differently than us.

599

Just categorically different, infinite

qualitative difference, trusting

600

that God knows what's best for us and

surrendering to His plan and His process.

601

Um, is, is the key here.

602

Thankfully, he's revealed himself,

his word, Jesus Christ, to, to show

603

his plan and his process and his

goodwill and good pleasures toward us.

604

it's a, it's a beautiful thing.

605

It is.

606

And can you imagine, a humanity, can

you imagine a humanity where instead of

607

seeking our own way to meet our own needs

and our own powers, and for the most

608

part, using other people in light of that?

609

Where my needs are met by you,

and your needs are met by mine,

610

and this is true of all humanity.

611

That we are fundamentally

oriented to meet the other

612

person's need instead of our own.

613

But we trust that they are able to

meet our need, because they're also

614

fundamentally oriented that way.

615

That's a different vision of

what human life can be like.

616

Yeah.

617

It's not just this life

extended eternally.

618

It's a butterfly existence as

opposed to a caterpillar existence,

619

it's that radical of a change.

620

Yeah.

621

Yeah.

622

Anyway, that's all I have for today.

623

Wow.

624

It's good stuff.

625

Thank you so much.

626

I hope people think through that a

little bit and, meditate on, its meaning.

627

Yep.

628

I know I will be.

629

So thank you.

630

Yep.

631

Bye.