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13 - Spaghetti Pants
Episode 13 • 5th July 2022 • Parts Department • Justin Brouillette & Jem Freeman
00:00:00 00:44:35

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Kitta Parts v2 and Baby Pants have launched, Jem is planning monthly product launches, and the guys discuss why money talk is taboo.

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Show Info


HOSTS

Jem Freeman

Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia

Like Butter | Instagram | More Links


Justin Brouillette

Portland, Oregon, USA

PDX CNC | Instagram | More Links

Transcripts

Jem:

Super super tabs.

Jem:

How many applications do I have

Jem:

Closing, all the

Jem:

Good morning.

Justin:

Hello.

Jem:

Hello,

Justin:

I didn't even tell you I'm

Justin:

on vacation

Justin:

this week,

Jem:

Coming to

Justin:

I come to live for my bed.

Jem:

Why aren't you out playing?

Jem:

What

Justin:

I'll have, take a photo of this setup

Justin:

because.

Justin:

I've got this microphone sitting on the pillows as well as my laptop.

Justin:

And it's just balancing just right.

Justin:

So there's a good chance.

Justin:

We're gonna have a whole tumble over in the middle.

Justin:

Yeah, been good.

Justin:

Eh,

Jem:

are you doing here?

Justin:

it's a good break.

Justin:

Sometimes you just gotta,

Justin:

you know, take a break from the break.

Justin:

This is enough sun.

Justin:

I do have a beer

Justin:

though.

Jem:

Oh, fantastic.

Jem:

I join you, but , 6:00 AM.

Justin:

you need a whiskey

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

I do.

Jem:

Uh, Cool.

Jem:

So you uh, launched baby pants and sold so many that you're like, right.

Jem:

see?

Jem:

you, Ricky.

Jem:

Can you just make a hundred of these I'm outta here?

Justin:

Good luck.

Justin:

No, basically.

Justin:

Yeah, no.

Justin:

Um, I haven't seen my family.

Justin:

They live in the middle of the United States for a while, so.

Justin:

Met up in um, Texas actually.

Justin:

So neither of us lived there and hadn't been to Austin before, so I was

Justin:

like, let's just see what it's like.

Justin:

And it's a hundred degrees here?

Justin:

so it's warm.

Jem:

awesome.

Jem:

Fantastic.

Jem:

How far from home are you?

Justin:

I think it's like, I'm gonna be around like 1800 miles

Justin:

maybe,

Jem:

Oh, so you didn't drive.

Justin:

Corner to the bottom center of the United

Justin:

States.

Jem:

Not a driving holiday then

Justin:

No, we did not.

Justin:

hadn't been on a plane since 2019.

Justin:

So that was

Justin:

interesting.

Justin:

I was a little anxious leading up to it and then we took off and I

Justin:

was like, oh, it's just a plane.

Justin:

Had you flown much other than your trip to Sydney?

Jem:

cool.

Jem:

Mm, no, I, I was the same.

Jem:

I hadn't got on one for a couple of years,

Jem:

quite a few years.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Mm, very cool.

Jem:

Beautiful.

Justin:

Mm-hmm it's good.

Justin:

It's been good.

Jem:

And Ricky's chipping away back in the shop.

Justin:

Mm-hmm finished a couple jobs

Justin:

we had, oh, I don't have a photo,

Justin:

but I'll, I'll definitely include it.

Justin:

There was a disastrous print the

Justin:

last couple days there was like half of a baby pants and then spaghetti for like all

Justin:

night.

Justin:

It, it was really bad.

Justin:

I don't

Justin:

know

Justin:

what happened.

Justin:

Like it

Jem:

that to our order.

Justin:

Sure.

Justin:

Yeah, you can have that.

Justin:

I'll put it in the

Jem:

I Had a dream this morning about

Jem:

unboxing baby pants.

Jem:

it was, it was, very well packaged.

Jem:

Um, one of my staff had picked it up at the post office

Jem:

and had unboxed it before I got there, which I was a bit annoyed about.

Jem:

And it was, it was smaller than I expected.

Jem:

I was like, Hmm.

Jem:

Oh yeah.

Jem:

It was kind of, I think reality, the duck size was

Jem:

probably

Jem:

like, yeah, three inches.

Jem:

Maybe

Jem:

it came in this cute little card, this cute little cardboard box.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

And then I

Justin:

That's adorable.

Justin:

It's made

Justin:

for ants.

Jem:

yeah.

Jem:

The bench top CNCS, I think.

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah, I hope it works fine for

Justin:

yours.

Justin:

I think.

Justin:

I don't know why it wouldn't, but I've only tested it with

Justin:

the one type of machine so far.

Jem:

I'm sure it will.

Jem:

The spin all code matches.

Justin:

yep.

Jem:

I'm, I'm excited.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

Cool.

Justin:

It's been its kind of like a mad rush finishing stuff.

Justin:

Cause I knew I was gonna be gone and

Justin:

then got it up and.

Justin:

Had a good response of our people have been very,

Justin:

kind and excited.

Justin:

So it's always a nice feeling when

Justin:

you put something out there and people respond well.

Justin:

Wow.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Yeah, I was excited to see it go up.

Jem:

It was a lower price point than I was

Jem:

expecting, which was interesting.

Jem:

After all our chat about how many print hours are in it And

Jem:

stuff, I was like, I really didn't know where it was gonna fall.

Jem:

So that was,

Jem:

yeah, that was, that was intriguing.

Jem:

But yeah, pretty excited to

Jem:

get it on the

Jem:

machine and get some dust collection going.

Justin:

Yeah,

Jem:

practical point of

Jem:

view.

Jem:

It'll be great.

Jem:

you got some sales straight off the bat?

Jem:

Mm.

Justin:

yeah, I was, I mean, I've done a few things, right?

Justin:

launched a few things and it was surprising to have,

Justin:

it's always smaller things.

Justin:

it's never been something.

Jem:

Yeah,

Justin:

more considerable.

Justin:

I've done a lot of like planners and small things, there's always, some people

Justin:

it'll trickle sales for those things and it kind of happens over time, but there

Justin:

was somebody that bought within three minutes of the email going out of the

Justin:

baby pants.

Justin:

And I was like, oh,

Justin:

thank God.

Justin:

She's just like sitting there watching, waiting for people to hit the

Justin:

website.

Justin:

Or at least I'm always excited when something new comes

Justin:

out, I'm like, oh, see somebody gonna buy it

Justin:

yeah, it wasn't crazy.

Justin:

I think there's.

Justin:

Oh 10 or

Justin:

11 at this

Justin:

point, but that's nice.

Justin:

Nice for a couple days.

Justin:

And,

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Fantastic.

Justin:

you know, you either see it new, you wanted it the whole time, or

Justin:

it takes a while for somebody to go, oh,

Justin:

Hey, that's

Justin:

interesting.

Justin:

So I'm getting questions about I had a friend point out that

Justin:

you might as well

Justin:

just sell 'em before inch.

Justin:

they can, I just don't wanna be disappointed, you know, at the end of the

Justin:

day of buying it and doesn't perform as maybe you saw in our videos or something

Justin:

because it's lesser,

Justin:

but it.

Jem:

mm.

Jem:

You could just adapt, have a four inch adapter so you can use

Jem:

the standard baby pants would.

Jem:

With a producer

Justin:

How

Justin:

does that work?

Justin:

I was, I've been curious with yours, it's a five inch here

Justin:

to use inch size diameter hose.

Justin:

You've gotta use

Justin:

millimeter stuff,

Justin:

right?

Jem:

uh, I think it is all, it's one of those things,

Jem:

which I reckon is all Imperial

Justin:

Oh,

Jem:

disguise.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Kind of a lot of things here are listed

Jem:

as their metric size.

Jem:

But in reality, when you actually measure stuff, it's like, oh, this

Jem:

is just an, an Imperial standard that they've called one 50 or

Jem:

it's actually 1 52.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

All that

Jem:

Stuff's pretty interchangeable.

Jem:

So I expect it just to drop on, yeah.

Justin:

Okay, cool.

Justin:

And if not, we'll we can figure out some printed adapter that you can get somebody

Justin:

to make,

Jem:

I'm sure it'll be fine.

Jem:

Hmm.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Well, in-house printer.

Justin:

your website's gone up, you're fixing

Justin:

bugs.

Justin:

I found one bug for you.

Justin:

I think that.

Justin:

got Jay got that

Justin:

fixed.

Justin:

Uh, how's all that gone kid parts

Justin:

launched.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

pretty good.

Jem:

Had a strong weekend of sales,

Jem:

not not totally gangbusters, but I think similar to you, like a bunch of

Jem:

people who knew what was coming and were waiting and were ready to purchase.

Jem:

So we had a good sort of influx.

Jem:

new website is kind of where we left it last week.

Jem:

As

Jem:

in, we got it up, got 90% of

Jem:

the issues resolved on the

Jem:

day, and then there's still heaps

Jem:

of little jobs to do, which Jay is chipping away at now.

Jem:

But I haven't sort of got

Jem:

back there

Jem:

and done much more work on it, moved on to other things this week,

Jem:

but happy to have it up there.

Jem:

It's good.

Jem:

Happy with how it looks and it's good to have the new kid parts up there.

Justin:

Yeah, it looks

Jem:

I

Jem:

feel like, I feel like I've got my work cut out for me now to like, do

Jem:

some really good communication about what's changed and why and where

Jem:

the compatibility lies between the two versions and stuff like that.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

I remember sending you some comment about like it?

Justin:

looks like it's going so well, but I'm seeing.

Justin:

I saw a couple people comment, like how do I adapt it into

Justin:

my existing one in my head?

Justin:

I was thinking that?

Justin:

wasn't possible.

Justin:

But you figured that out,

Justin:

you have a compatibility

Jem:

In my head.

Jem:

I can, I can do it.

Jem:

It's just hard to explain to people what's possible and what's

Jem:

not.

Jem:

So I just need to do some, some work on actually making that content to explain

Jem:

those differences, which, if I just sit down and do it, won't take me very

Jem:

long, but it's one of those tasks that I.

Jem:

Put off.

Jem:

Cause it feels bigger than it is.

Justin:

yeah.

Justin:

Mm-hmm I was, I was gonna ask what with your website, have you had to touch

Justin:

every product page to like adapt it?

Justin:

Cuz like I have weird quirks with a lot of 'em we're all like

Justin:

custom code, some stuff in the

Justin:

description and which is about like, after we talked

Justin:

last week, I was thinking like, why the hell am I.

Justin:

doing that?

Justin:

Like.

Justin:

It's such a ha hassle to have to

Justin:

adapt to your, whatever your new theme is.

Justin:

Or, you're saying like anything, custom's always a pretty big problem.

Jem:

it comes to updates.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Yeah, we've had to touch every

Jem:

page.

Jem:

Definitely.

Jem:

Jay has done the bulk of that work with all the product pages sort

Jem:

of working through and checking

Jem:

everything.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

it's a big, big job when I think we've

Jem:

got 300

Jem:

plus variants online.

Jem:

So it's a lot of

Justin:

can believe that

Jem:

Yeah, by the time you add material

Jem:

options and size

Jem:

options to things, it, the variant

Jem:

list just goes bananas

Justin:

I bet kid aparts I had Like an exponential factor to that.

Justin:

Or, or do you, you don't sell like all the cart pieces, do you,

Jem:

all the way.

Justin:

do, do you sell like individual pieces of kid parts?

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

Wow.

Justin:

It's a lot of

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Lot

Jem:

of

Jem:

parts, lot of skews.

Jem:

And now there's two versions online.

Jem:

Haha.

Jem:

to complicate things

Justin:

Like put a little dot of color on the end

Justin:

V

Justin:

one V

Jem:

yeah, I think we'll have to,

Jem:

But I spent oh

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

That's in the budget for January a laser.

Justin:

or your laser cutter.

Justin:

Hey.

Justin:

Nice.

Jem:

Hey.

Jem:

But I spent

Jem:

yesterday morning

Jem:

writing new programs for all the new

Jem:

lengths

Jem:

for the new kit parts, getting that tiled in, it's always fun.

Jem:

Cut and cut and paste a whole lot of G code and

Jem:

update it and then

Jem:

run it and try

Jem:

not to crash.

Jem:

And it's getting easier.

Jem:

I'm getting better at reading G code and telling what's going on and

Jem:

just more comfortable making those changes

Jem:

without the issue.

Justin:

Are getting anywhere

Justin:

closer to posting something.

Justin:

That's not needing a lot of edits out of fusion.

Jem:

no, I haven't made any further progress on that.

Jem:

I had

Jem:

a chat to

Jem:

oh, our fusion re Taylor at that trade show I went to recently

Jem:

was there like the Autodesk reps.

Jem:

And they've got a company called massive.

Jem:

I think it is

Jem:

that write post processes and

Jem:

specialize in post processes.

Jem:

And I chatted to them and they, they could write us a custom post

Jem:

to get exactly what we want out of

Jem:

fusion for the pencil sharper.

Jem:

So at that point I kind of stopped fidling with my post and thought, I'll

Jem:

just keep copying and pasting for now.

Jem:

And if the need arises in

Jem:

future, then we'll commission a post processor that just works.

Jem:

it's working pretty well.

Jem:

I've pretty much just got visual studio code open, and then I've just built an

Jem:

index in visual studio code of all my most commonly used functions and also code

Jem:

blocks of like, this is my entry block.

Jem:

This makes a block.

Jem:

This is my like cutoff block.

Jem:

And I just sort of pace them in and check values

Jem:

and works pretty well.

Justin:

I'll play the John Saunders here.

Justin:

What happens if you crash that thing?

Justin:

Because you've been fidling with code, is it a big hit to kid aparts business then?

Jem:

Oh, I've crashed it so many times now.

Justin:

doesn't matter.

Jem:

it's look, I'm

Jem:

sure it does matter.

Jem:

It's

Jem:

I've damaged those Nikita spindles time and time again.

Jem:

But amazingly, And,

Jem:

we've replaced them

Jem:

fully

Jem:

once which is a fairly big job, cuz you kind of have to

Jem:

pull the whole X,

Jem:

Y access apart to gain

Jem:

access, to get

Jem:

the spindles out.

Jem:

I call them spindles ha the, the trimmers,

Justin:

True.

Jem:

the cheap McKee to

Jem:

trimmers.

Jem:

But I've, I

Jem:

keep crashing it since we replaced them.

Jem:

And I'm

Jem:

literally just taking a

Jem:

hammer and a

Jem:

wooden stick and like beating the, the shaft back into true.

Jem:

Not even with a like edge, like edge finder or anything,

Jem:

just like running the tool.

Jem:

Up against the Chuck and spinning it and finding the run

Jem:

out and like tap, tap, tap, tap, find the run out, tap, tap, tap,

Jem:

tap, and refine it down to like

Jem:

enough, you

Jem:

know?

Jem:

So it's

Jem:

concentric enough that it runs well again, so that I've got that down to a fine art.

Jem:

So if I crash really hard, I can kind of

Jem:

have it beaten back into shape in about 10 minutes, but I'm sure every

Jem:

time I'm doing that, I'm just slowly destroying the bearings or whatever.

Jem:

We'll have to replace

Justin:

it's almost like they're, I mean, they're priced here basically, like.

Justin:

A fairly normal CNC carbide tool.

Justin:

it's almost like they're consumable in a sense,

Justin:

those tremors

Jem:

the trim is, yeah, I know.

Jem:

Right.

Justin:

they're, they're just a CNC tool, basically

Jem:

shit.

Jem:

That's a,

Jem:

that's a good point.

Jem:

They really are that a similar price point.

Justin:

and even if you.

Justin:

Retired them from your pencil sharpening game, they could be.

Justin:

We used shop still.

Justin:

I'm sure.

Justin:

Just

Justin:

fine.

Jem:

Yeah, absolutely.

Jem:

I'm gonna have this blocks of Mykita trimmers.

Jem:

We'll just have three on every bench.

Justin:

give to Laura for a

Justin:

sculpture.

Jem:

yeah.

Jem:

Yeah, but this's kind of been my happy place.

Jem:

Just hanging out with the pencil shop of a morning.

Jem:

something that's changed here in the last couple of weeks

Jem:

is I've handed it off my hat

Jem:

as production manager

Jem:

to

Jem:

Ben.

Jem:

And Ben was naturally starting to sort of

Jem:

do this last few months since I had COVID

Jem:

actually it was

Jem:

that Monday, a Monday in the tent.

Jem:

I called Ben I

Jem:

was like, can you cover me?

Jem:

He was just like, it was a one line

Jem:

conversation.

Jem:

He was

Jem:

just like, yep.

Jem:

Gotcha.

Jem:

Since then, he's kind of.

Jem:

just

Jem:

naturally sort

Jem:

of upped his game and has kept his head around pretty much

Jem:

everything that's going

Jem:

on in the workshop.

Justin:

That's

Jem:

So it was quite, it was quite a

Jem:

natural transition

Jem:

to say, cool, this is your, your baby now in terms of production management

Justin:

what was his previous top responsibilities

Jem:

here.

Justin:

tasks?

Justin:

What was Ben's previous?

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

he,

Jem:

he is a,

Jem:

what we call a production operator.

Jem:

So a maker, and he was handling sort of the larger, more complex custom

Jem:

jobs because of his experience.

Jem:

You know, , he's proper experience.

Jem:

He's actually qualified.

Jem:

Unlike me,

Jem:

he's got a he's a joiner and has worked as a joiner in big join

Jem:

shops for a long time and has,

Jem:

, a lot of experience in the industry.

Jem:

So I think he sort of came in here a year or so ago and was like, Ooh, These, these

Jem:

people work in strange ways, but , was very flexible and adapted to our systems.

Jem:

And

Justin:

naive D is a good

Justin:

innovation tool.

Jem:

it really is really is.

Justin:

there's a Good chance that you're gonna hear my nephew and

Justin:

niece running around,

Justin:

but maybe it'll be some instead of the Kaiser.

Justin:

It'll be

Justin:

my .My new Kaiser's.

Justin:

I hadn't

Justin:

actually seen my niece.

Justin:

She

Justin:

was

Justin:

born during the pandemic and I'd never seen her

Justin:

until

Justin:

this trip.

Justin:

So that's been pretty cool

Jem:

That's

Jem:

amazing.

Jem:

How old is she now?

Justin:

just over a year.

Justin:

I think

Justin:

14

Justin:

months, maybe.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Okay.

Justin:

pretty cute.

Justin:

Pretty cute.

Justin:

They're running down.

Justin:

They just got down.

Justin:

with their naps.

Justin:

So they're running

Justin:

down the

Justin:

stairs right now.

Jem:

Awesome.

Jem:

As long as they're dressed as minions, little Kaisers um, I'm, I'm happy.

Justin:

Oh, my God.

Justin:

It'd be

Justin:

amazing.

Justin:

Uh, so good.

Justin:

I've been watching a lot of

Justin:

like their Disney style shows, right?

Justin:

Like I just saw frozen too for the first time.

Justin:

I didn't,

Jem:

The first time come

Jem:

on, came out eight

Justin:

I don't have little kids.

Justin:

We do every once in a while, we'll watch some kind of animated show, which we both

Justin:

I like, but it's just not top of the list.

Justin:

We're not flipping at Disney kids usually.

Jem:

those because I have kids.

Jem:

We've

Justin:

Good.

Justin:

point.

Justin:

Good.

Jem:

it's been, that's always been top of our

Jem:

watch list for Laura and I, and we still watch them.

Jem:

The kids

Jem:

don't get to watch movies.

Jem:

They're not old enough in our mind.

Jem:

So Laura and I are the ones dialing up the latest Pixar or Disney animation.

Jem:

Yep.

Justin:

Sure.

Justin:

No, it's great.

Justin:

We watched Luca actually, when we were both favoring from COVID

Justin:

and we both fell asleep before it was over, but it was really Good.

Justin:

What I remember of it, I was, have you printed anything else?

Jem:

Nope.

Jem:

Don't think we have this week.

Jem:

I'm I've got plans for some guards and dust collection for the pencil shop.

Jem:

I think that's probably next to fiddle around with my cardboard ones that

Jem:

are hot glued on are only so good.

Justin:

mm-hmm yeah,

Jem:

they're quite

Jem:

effective at dust collection, but not so good at guarding.

Justin:

like a laser curtain.

Jem:

yeah.

Jem:

Well, that's the other way to think about it is just to box it in, like

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

not try and make each cutting tool.

Jem:

Protected,

Jem:

but just kind of put the thing in a cage and lock the door,

Justin:

mm-hmm

Jem:

walk away.

Justin:

oh, I know.

Justin:

I was gonna ask, did you, did you take down all those stories

Justin:

of you and the 3d print?

Justin:

The, with the, the squared around 3d print and call

Justin:

it?

Justin:

I remember we talked about 'em last show.

Justin:

And then I was like,

Justin:

you know, I was enjoying your stories and you're like, yeah,

Justin:

I thought I was grunting a lot.

Justin:

And then I went to look for 'em again, and they were all gone.

Justin:

I was like, oh man, maybe it was

Justin:

just 24 hours already.

Jem:

No, they must have expired.

Jem:

I didn't take them down.

Jem:

But I think I've saved pretty much every pencil, sharper story to highlights.

Justin:

nice.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

There's a pencil sharper highlight reel.

Jem:

That's probably hours long by now.

Justin:

I was gonna put, well, that's true.

Justin:

I

Justin:

was gonna put, if I kind of just like, didn't try very hard, but I was gonna

Justin:

take some of those there.

Justin:

Pretty funny and put em into the show

Justin:

last week.

Justin:

and

Justin:

then cause we had talked

Justin:

about it and then

Jem:

There we go.

Jem:

Nice.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Sorry.

Jem:

I dropped the ball on the edit last week.

Jem:

Oh.

Jem:

Any help with the edit?

Justin:

it's sorry.

Justin:

I was lying around.

Justin:

Yeah, I was glad I sent you that that one clip.

Justin:

It was a little too, too hot for, for publishing cuz I was like, I

Justin:

think I was doing it pretty late and I was like, this might be

Justin:

too much done.

Justin:

Got a little heavy, this

Justin:

drinking

Jem:

you did.

Jem:

So what's the plan when

Justin:

ketchup on catch on some emails.

Justin:

Started making a bunch of dust boots

Justin:

got material.

Justin:

I'm hoping some more prints get

Justin:

made, but Ricky actually, that

Justin:

was an interesting thing of

Justin:

like, I'd spent so much

Justin:

time myself.

Justin:

He'd printed quite a bit

Justin:

before.

Justin:

we started doing, we started using the PERA, actually.

Justin:

He used the other one quite a bit.

Justin:

And then

Justin:

I'd

Justin:

kind of had just been using it a

Justin:

lot to prototype stuff.

Justin:

So it really wasn't a, there wasn't a place for like him to help

Justin:

make production happen with it.

Justin:

Cause it was just like print one.

Justin:

Oh there's

Justin:

problems.

Justin:

Fix it.

Justin:

and then I was like getting ready to leave.

Justin:

And I was like, ah, man,

Justin:

I should, we should have gone over this a little more, but I

Justin:

was like, you know how to print?

Justin:

Just, you know make it work.

Justin:

And like the only time it's had a major spaghetti monster was when I was

Justin:

gone.

Justin:

But, other than that it's been pretty good.

Justin:

I don't know.

Justin:

I don't have,

Justin:

honestly haven't thought too much about.

Justin:

What I'm going to be doing,

Justin:

which is nice.

Justin:

I don't usually check out too easily on vacation, but it's been a

Justin:

good,

Justin:

been able to be here.

Justin:

I think more than

Justin:

there.

Jem:

That's really good.

Jem:

Great,

Jem:

good.

Jem:

good.

Jem:

Do you manage to stay away from emails

Justin:

I did.

Justin:

I it depends on the amount of days.

Justin:

I do believe in that like certain amount of days away,

Justin:

I can like really disconnect.

Justin:

And just put some auto response responses on.

Justin:

And so far, we've only had one email that I saw that that was

Justin:

like, I have an urgent project.

Justin:

And I was like, is somebody bleeding?

Justin:

You know, like, I can't really help you

Jem:

like, Hmm.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

I've been enjoying using the new focus modes on my phone at

Justin:

Oh, yeah.

Jem:

So I've got one set now that just automatically turns on work.

Jem:

Focus.

Jem:

When I arrive at this address.

Jem:

Which can be confusing at times.

Jem:

It's like, how did I miss so many calls this

Jem:

morning?

Jem:

It's like, oh, that's right.

Jem:

My phone automatically switched to

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

focus mode, but

Jem:

it's

Jem:

been really,

Jem:

it's been good.

Jem:

Like I'm a

Jem:

sucker for distraction.

Justin:

Oh, Sam.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

So an anytime slack pings off internally with a message.

Jem:

I'm just like

Jem:

Bob switching

Jem:

tabs, just have, a look at what it is.

Jem:

At least even if I don't respond, then I'm looking at it and

Jem:

thinking about it I'm trying to get better at that.

Jem:

Like, if

Jem:

something's really urgent, then

Jem:

, if it's someone here that can come and talk to me, or if it's Sarah, she

Jem:

can pick up the phone or get through.

Jem:

But yeah, I'm trying to get better at not responding to every little

Jem:

throughout the day immediately and kind of batching them a bit more,

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

particularly with slack.

Jem:

I don't, I never get email notifications, but yeah.

Justin:

Either say

Justin:

anything.

Jem:

Um, I get as the sort of channel owner, I get the, the email

Jem:

from slack every week that tells

Jem:

me how many messages we've

Jem:

sent as a team last week.

Jem:

And the number is a little bit frightening.

Jem:

I think it's sort of six or 700 a week internal messages,

Jem:

which, , it's an effective tool.

Jem:

But it does, does make me sort of question where effectiveness

Jem:

stops and distraction begins.

Jem:

And it's a blurry line.

Jem:

I think we

Jem:

we

Justin:

Mm-hmm I think I I've really liked it versus email.

Justin:

We don't pay for slack.

Justin:

we never have, cuz it's never, pushed it to a place where it feels like you need

Justin:

to you begin to rely on it as a tool,

Justin:

but then now the history drops off right at the end.

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

Then it's like a whole crap where, oh, we put it

Justin:

in slack.

Justin:

And

Justin:

so we have this problem where it's

Justin:

like, where did we keep something?

Justin:

And you know, you try to have your repository, but inevitably,

Justin:

if it was email or slack, you're gonna have one of this

Justin:

like messaging channels where something important

Justin:

is that you can't

Justin:

find.

Justin:

So that's about my only thing I don't like about slack

Justin:

or

Justin:

that's become somewhat of

Justin:

a

Justin:

challenge,

Justin:

I guess

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Well, you've got that nice, like in internal Wiki, right?

Justin:

It's just, you know, the friction though, right?

Justin:

That's why Slack's so successful is you literally alt tab to it and then

Justin:

immediately send a message like, Hey, this dimension is

Justin:

this, but then it's there.

Justin:

And it's like, what channel was

Justin:

that?

Jem:

yeah, yeah, totally.

Jem:

We've been trying to use group channels a little bit more lately.

Jem:

I think as part of the transition

Jem:

of Ben taking on

Jem:

production management, I renamed one of

Jem:

our

Jem:

channels, which wasn't being particularly effective to production.

Jem:

And so there's everyone sees certain messages now.

Jem:

So there's, I was aware that we're doing a lot of, I would tell Ben something

Jem:

and then Ben would talk to John.

Jem:

John would talk to Josh and it was like this kind of the, before

Jem:

conversations happening concurrently.

Jem:

trying to do a bit more sort of just group

Jem:

messaging of, Hey, this job's ready.

Jem:

This is the handover video.

Jem:

This is the detail for this job , so even it means certain people will get spamed

Jem:

with it who it's not relevant to, but at least it's there if they need it and they

Jem:

can go back and look at that channel.

Jem:

If they're trying to find some detail.

Jem:

And the history thing doesn't, we've had people here have sort of complained

Jem:

about the fact that the history's gone and they go, can't go back and find a

Jem:

document from three years ago or whatever I'm like.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

But the pace at which we sort of move on and change standards and innovate

Jem:

means that it's pretty much all redundant

Jem:

information.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

certain things.

Jem:

Yes.

Jem:

It might be handy to be able to search back, but 99% of it is like

Jem:

useless,

Justin:

for sure.

Justin:

well, I was gonna ask about that.

Justin:

Have you used it all or you tested out fresh task?

Justin:

Was it something you liked?

Jem:

really like the look of it.

Jem:

Haven't it's on the project list.

Justin:

Sure.

Justin:

I'm

Jem:

Jay, and I really like the idea of having some sort of overlay that can

Jem:

help us manage client communications.

Jem:

Cuz at the moment we use, we use Google suite, whatever it's called, like

Jem:

Gmail, basically with our own domain.

Jem:

Around the messaging around in custom jobs is basically just a draft email

Jem:

that sits against the email conversation.

Jem:

So we have like 3000 draft emails in Gmail with all these notes

Jem:

against different jobs and it's.

Jem:

Okay.

Jem:

It's kind of a hacky way that.

Jem:

we've just always done, it's not ideal.

Jem:

Like if we wanna sort of tag each other into things or sort hand over a

Jem:

custom job for Marin to me, it's just yeah.

Jem:

Could be heaps better basically.

Justin:

we kind of use air table

Justin:

for that.

Jem:

you've mentioned dear.

Justin:

Try to, I

Justin:

mean, it's just been such

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

a, whenever it's down to

Justin:

slim as just Ricky and

Justin:

I, it ends up being a lot

Justin:

of like

Justin:

just slack back and forth, but whenever there's multiple people involved,

Justin:

More than that.

Justin:

I tried to create a

Justin:

project aspect of

Justin:

Airtable that has tasks associated with each project.

Justin:

So

Justin:

then theoretically, everything that's important should just go in

Justin:

like a notes field of the

Justin:

project and that way.

Justin:

And I kind of do it like an itinerary or not itinerary, but like a log also

Justin:

of like when they paid deposits

Justin:

and when it's due and all this kind of stuff's

Justin:

there.

Justin:

So that's a little

Justin:

bit better.

Justin:

Than what we

Justin:

did before.

Jem:

having one master place for information, I think's important

Jem:

for sure.

Jem:

The other thing that's come up for me over the

Jem:

years is, , we've got eight staff at the moment.

Jem:

And we've had, we have really good staff retention, but you

Jem:

know, there's natural

Jem:

rollover.

Jem:

So over the years we've had

Jem:

quite a few staff something I've become aware of is not everyone perceives and

Jem:

absorbs information in the same way.

Jem:

And so there's definitely

Jem:

moments in time, where you become aware that whilst their table or workflow,

Jem:

it might be a really effective written communication tool for one person.

Jem:

It might be really hard and unintuitive for someone else.

Jem:

Like someone might be struggle with interpreting just like a workflow.

Jem:

We like just a screen of black and white text and sort of picking out

Jem:

what's important outta that where someone else can kind of scan it

Jem:

and go, oh yeah, that's important.

Jem:

That's important.

Jem:

The rest of it's, whatever.

Jem:

And that was one of the drivers from us to switch away

Jem:

from workflowing build our ERP and air table was sort of, how can we

Jem:

make this a bit more rich, rich, and customizable with the different views.

Jem:

So it's

Justin:

Yep.

Jem:

someone, , I can have my own view.

Jem:

That's got my own color coding or sort of is adapted to how I wanna see information.

Jem:

And that's limited to a point obviously, but I think it's helped, but

Justin:

I noticed that pretty early

Justin:

on.

Justin:

And

Justin:

what

Justin:

the success of air table I

Justin:

think for

Justin:

us was we did have a handful of different.

Justin:

You always do different types of

Justin:

people, different interests in ways that they've taken information

Justin:

and

Justin:

all the other

Justin:

ways it felt like maybe

Justin:

you get the options.

Justin:

Let's say it's a project based

Justin:

thing.

Justin:

Like we used flow before or TRS similar where you either get Kon or

Justin:

like a list of some sort.

Justin:

And I think there was some

Justin:

success.

Justin:

Spare table being able to have

Justin:

personal

Justin:

views, which kind of took some, I still, you know, a little bit confusing for the

Justin:

people that don't sit at, look at their computer all day.

Justin:

Like I

Justin:

do you know, they're actually making stuff, that's been really successful

Justin:

as certain like Ricky always.

Justin:

You know, I noticed he uses like one or two views in air table, cuz

Justin:

that's all, you know, like that was kind of, part of my attention

Justin:

was like, here's what you

Justin:

need to pay attention to.

Justin:

Like, don't dig through all this stuff.

Justin:

Like you don't need to, unless you are interested, go for it.

Justin:

But if you just wanna find what you need to work on, here's just a

Justin:

couple views it seems to be successful cause he doesn't miss anything, you

Justin:

know, like, and I like that, that you can at least tailor something maybe a

Justin:

little bit more to your taste and it's not forced as everybody's view has

Justin:

to

Justin:

be this.

Jem:

Yeah, I think the person will be things fantastic.

Jem:

I use that really heavily in our quoting register.

Jem:

it's just filtering everything down to just what I wanna see and just the

Jem:

views, or even making clients specific views of like, for our biggest clients,

Jem:

like who are the people that I need to follow up with, just gimme those

Jem:

jobs.

Jem:

And

Justin:

Nice.

Jem:

so, so powerful.

Jem:

I love It, It's good.

Jem:

I was struck the other day of like, we have so much information in an air

Jem:

table now and it still runs so well.

Jem:

It's relatively responsive.

Jem:

You can find stuff quickly.

Jem:

I dunno how many, how many individual lines of data there must be in there now,

Jem:

but it's like, Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing.

Jem:

And that, that amazes me the internet.

Justin:

It, it will I'd say the one thing you can't do is if like

Justin:

on one of our, all of our inquiries are on one thing and there's

Justin:

only 1300 or something like that, which you can't

Justin:

just scroll through.

Justin:

I can't

Justin:

anyway.

Justin:

It like won't load fast, you know?

Justin:

but if you just search or.

Justin:

you know, kind of pick spots.

Justin:

works right.

Justin:

And maybe just how I have it

Justin:

shown,

Jem:

Mm

Justin:

but yeah, it's pretty clean.

Justin:

I would love to get to this place with it where

Justin:

I've set it up often.

Justin:

then I just have too many things going on, I

Justin:

think off to most of the time, but you know, um, we have this bear table for

Justin:

parts department, right?

Justin:

We have all these

Justin:

different things and I would love.

Justin:

If the permissions were fine,

Justin:

you could set permissions to be able to have like a master

Justin:

search

Justin:

of like, I wanna see across all these things, like Google drive

Justin:

style.

Justin:

Right.

Justin:

Cause it's very

Justin:

siloed

Justin:

to a base and sometimes even a table.

Justin:

And they've got these weird extensions that you can search

Justin:

some stuff, but

Justin:

it's like not quick to get

Justin:

to.

Justin:

And

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

That's

Jem:

been one of my complaints probably is search

Justin:

Mm-hmm

Jem:

coming from workflow where search was just so fast and responsive and global.

Justin:

Yep.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

That siloed nature is a bit

Jem:

annoying, but I reckon it will come.

Jem:

They seem pretty good in terms of they're developing stuff pretty quickly.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

Yeah,

Justin:

What's what are you working on?

Justin:

That's new.

Justin:

Anything?

Jem:

to ask you the same,

Jem:

like instead of pushing,

Jem:

pushing pixels around air table, what are, what are we doing in

Jem:

reality?

Justin:

Well

Jem:

uh, What's new.

Jem:

I

Jem:

am starting to switch my focus a little bit

Jem:

towards the next product I wanna

Jem:

launch,

Justin:

that often nice.

Jem:

which is our competitor.

Jem:

Nawa watch out,

Justin:

Thread,

Justin:

board.

Jem:

thread, board.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

I've put a, starting to put a product launch structure into place.

Jem:

So instead of it just being a arbitrary randomness,

Jem:

I'm gonna, oh,

Jem:

I

Jem:

think I'm gonna try for monthly.

Jem:

Cause we've got

Jem:

we've got such a backlog at the moment of cool stuff that we're

Jem:

sitting on that staff have designed, or I've got sitting in the wings.

Jem:

We've got like six to nine months of backlog.

Jem:

gonna see if it's possible to go monthly,

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

to see what happens, but.

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

place where I find, what I get into is this place where we have

Justin:

idea a lot of good ideas and they're

Justin:

like, kind of all, but production ready, basically.

Jem:

Mm,

Justin:

Or there's some last final detail about like, I don't know, just

Justin:

something isn't quite figured out and it just kind of, yeah, it'll sit too

Justin:

long.

Justin:

Is that how you have things

Justin:

or are

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Some things are definitely in that category.

Justin:

yeah.

Jem:

I think thread board's one, that's been, you know, prototyped

Jem:

and tested and it's probably a couple of years old now, really, but due to

Jem:

not resolving, basically not resolving the accessories

Jem:

to a point where I'm happy with them has meant

Jem:

that it's kind of just stagnated.

Jem:

So, yeah, just make stuff.

Jem:

Well, the plan is to just get a few accessories going and get it up

Jem:

there as a, a wall system and Yeah.

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

where are you at with your wall system?

Justin:

It definitely got put a little bit on the yeah, back burner of, I went

Justin:

for the thing that seemed most obvious and easy to complete, which was the dust

Justin:

boot.

Justin:

It just felt like It was an easy win.

Jem:

it's contained,

Jem:

Right?

Justin:

yeah, it's one thing it's not a series of.

Justin:

Panels with a bunch of other stuff that, I mean, and the other really

Justin:

encouraging thing was every time I'd post about it, I'd have somebody

Justin:

say, like, I wanna buy that now.

Justin:

You know, it was just like very awesome

Justin:

to

Justin:

see interest and solving a very known problem in some

Justin:

way or trying to solve, you know, and making it better.

Justin:

So close.

Justin:

through our.

Justin:

Pressure some ways I've felt like I've made some good progress

Justin:

on getting things on Shopify.

Justin:

And we're kind of,

Justin:

just at this place of, I need to document

Justin:

it

Justin:

and finalize some pricing on it.

Justin:

That's I part for me at this point is how to price

Justin:

both to make profit as well

Justin:

as um, what will the market feel is a fair price kind of thing.

Justin:

the

Jem:

you about pricing at some point

Justin:

Oh, sure.

Jem:

compare notes.

Jem:

Given that we're, we're on the opposite sides of the world and are

Jem:

not direct competitors.

Jem:

I feel like we're well placed to have a, an in depth conversation about pricing.

Justin:

well, guess you've stumbled onto my plan.

Justin:

The whole time of getting to, know you.

Justin:

I

Justin:

was playing and move into the Australian market

Justin:

actually.

Justin:

So

Jem:

you're welcome to bring it

Jem:

on

Don:

An epic battle of wall systems is afoot, will both of a our hosts survive!

Don:

? Justin: long term plan.

Don:

No,

Don:

Sounds quite too

Jem:

Who, who are you gonna

Jem:

side with Don

Jem:

over you?

Don:

I would flip a coin but I don't have hands.

Justin:

you'll have to edit.

Justin:

I

Jem:

Shit.

Jem:

Where was I?

Justin:

dunno.

Justin:

Pricing and

Jem:

Pricing.

Jem:

Yeah, pricing it it frustrates me eating, eating lunch.

Jem:

It fr it frustrates me that talking money is kind of taboo.

Jem:

This is something that annoys me as a business owner and maybe it's

Jem:

cuz I'm a business owner, but I

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

really enjoy whenever the opportunity arises to have a Frank

Jem:

conversation with someone about financial

Jem:

stuff, whether it's business personal,

Justin:

Yep.,

Jem:

you know,

Jem:

even, even rental like everything about it.

Jem:

I feel like it's such a big part of our lives that it, it just annoys

Jem:

me that it feels like it's something that we can't sort of, we feel Funny

Jem:

about talking about good use of words, Jim, funny, talking funny.

Justin:

Funny talking

Justin:

men.

Jem:

yeah, yeah.

Jem:

Do you?

Jem:

know,

Jem:

what I mean?

Jem:

Do you have

Justin:

Yeah, no, I do.

Justin:

I do.

Justin:

I try, I think we may be somewhat similar and I, I know what

Justin:

you mean, even in this sense

Justin:

of, I think in a business sense

Justin:

where it becomes, do you know the company ever lane.

Jem:

Ever who no sponsored.

Justin:

Everlane?

Justin:

It's like a clothing company.

Justin:

Uh, maybe it must be American only, I'm not like a huge proponent

Justin:

of them, but my wife likes

Justin:

her clothes.

Justin:

Um, I sponsored not by

Justin:

Everlane.

Justin:

they're all about transparency, supposedly.

Justin:

So

Justin:

like they tell you how much their ads cost.

Justin:

They tell you how much the profitability is.

Justin:

And I think where it comes into play.

Justin:

Where I have some sensibility about that is

Justin:

it's probably on either end.

Justin:

If I'm not making much

Justin:

money on something I'm conscious of it.

Justin:

Or if for some reason

Justin:

we

Justin:

found, which never

Justin:

happens uh, a way to make a lot of money on something, right?

Justin:

Like the margin's amazing.

Justin:

I think that's where I would feel weird about it, but somewhere in the middle

Justin:

I'm.

Justin:

You know, internally, I try to share, as we both talked about that,

Justin:

I try to share as much as I can, because I

Justin:

think it helps people be responsible about how they spend their time

Justin:

and, feel a part of, you know, things and make good decisions.

Jem:

Mm.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Like I would, , in this context of

Jem:

this podcast, I would like to be able to talk about finances more freely

Jem:

of yeah, we sold X on the weekend, or like, , last week sales went really well.

Jem:

This financial year was terrible or,

Jem:

And, , I'm quite comfortable talking to you about that offline, but yeah,

Jem:

there is a sense of sort of, yeah.

Jem:

Protecting oneself by not giving away that sort of information.

Jem:

And I'm not sure what that's about.

Jem:

Um, we've gotten heaps better at sharing that internally.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

Uh, Like we Sarah presented our 20, 23 budget last week to the

Jem:

whole team and that was like full P and L budget basically on screen.

Jem:

Um, Absolutely everything in there and, you know, , a bottom

Jem:

line, a projected profit,

Jem:

if we can get the sales that we need to get, which are quite ambitious, then,

Jem:

you know, the profit looks really good.

Justin:

Mm-hmm

Jem:

I think everyone here is on board and understands, you know, , what

Jem:

that bottom line means for the company and the why it's important

Jem:

that we need to push for that.

Jem:

But yeah, I've definitely have I've in the past.

Jem:

I've been much more hesitant about sharing sort of bottom line profit

Jem:

if there was one, whereas, you know,,

Justin:

Well, there's another side

Justin:

to that.

Justin:

I don't

Justin:

know.

Justin:

I suppose at any point here, we just cut out what we

Justin:

don't

Justin:

want out there.

Jem:

oh, I know.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

In terms of the,

Jem:

recording.

Jem:

Fine.

Jem:

We'll cut.

Justin:

the, the other side of that, as

Justin:

business owners,

Justin:

what it comes out

Justin:

to be, especially in America

Justin:

is there's this whole conversation of like, the owner is gonna take

Justin:

whatever's left over and make good on the

Justin:

situation.

Justin:

Which is fair to a

Justin:

point.

Justin:

As long as you're not taking advantage of the

Justin:

people that work for you.

Justin:

But

Justin:

that, that's part of some of

Justin:

the conservatism I think of talking about it is, oh, well, there's a whole

Justin:

group of people out there

Justin:

that love to talk about that kind of thing.

Justin:

Like I'm making so much money.

Justin:

It's like, you know, right.

Justin:

it's

Justin:

not apparently neither

Justin:

of us are in that

Justin:

game, but,

Jem:

No like that podcast you shared recently the um, what was it?

Justin:

how to make a million dollars, my first million.

Justin:

That made me throw a half of it, but at the other half, it's

Justin:

like, oh, that's

Justin:

interesting.

Jem:

that was a super, super interesting.

Jem:

episode.

Jem:

I really enjoyed that.

Jem:

But Yeah.

Jem:

No you're right.

Jem:

There's yeah, the whole, whole SWA of people who are very

Jem:

happy talking about that.

Jem:

stuff and I'm quite happy listening to that

Jem:

stuff.

Justin:

financial podcasts make a lot more

Justin:

money, so of YouTube.

Justin:

So I'm gonna probably change this one on

Justin:

YouTube so that it's financial.

Justin:

So that we get a

Justin:

little higher.

Justin:

We don't even make money on it.

Justin:

So I don't know what I'm

Justin:

talking about, Yeah, I know you mean though?

Justin:

It's hard.

Justin:

There's a whole lot wrapped up in, I think culture.

Justin:

to me anyway, what comes up with that?

Justin:

Why it feels weird is a, is the kind of discussion about equality of, have,

Justin:

and have nots kind of thing, right?

Justin:

Like the people that theoretically make all this money on the back of people

Justin:

that maybe are working a lower wage,

Justin:

this is not describing either of our businesses, but I think

Justin:

that's the, you don't become a billionaire, right?

Justin:

They always say.

Justin:

Taking advantage of some

Jem:

Mm,

Justin:

if you paid everybody a hundred thousand

Justin:

dollars that worked for

Justin:

you

Justin:

in your mega opoly to get to your billion dollar status, like you probably

Justin:

wouldn't have made a billion dollars.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

yeah, I think I have some sort of.

Jem:

I'm gonna say hangups about profit.

Jem:

I definitely have some, yeah, BA base level discomfort with the

Jem:

concept of profit and profitability which I definitely need to work on.

Jem:

And that's something my business coach has helps me with a little bit of like

Jem:

he's, he's exci genuine, I think genuinely excited about what we're trying to do in

Jem:

terms of the kind of triple bottom line business model of people, planet profit.

Justin:

Mm-hmm

Jem:

he keeps trying to, having to sort of remind me of gem, you have to make

Jem:

profit for this business to work and just, you need to reframe your thinking about

Jem:

what that profit is or the profit is Yik.

Jem:

Is all the good things you wanna do in terms of our sustainability

Jem:

initiatives, that's investing in the company and new and exci exciting sort of

Jem:

innovations basically.

Jem:

So I've got that up on my whiteboard next to

Jem:

my desk is like, whenever I'm quoting a job And and I feel like it's too

Jem:

expensive or something, I can kind of look across and go, oh yeah, that's right.

Jem:

That's why we're here.

Jem:

That's what we're trying to do.

Jem:

It's our kind of

Jem:

our mission is like,

Jem:

profit for good.

Jem:

But yeah, it's, it's something I struggle with for sure.

Jem:

Mm

Justin:

Yeah, I put on the beginning of the year, I was

Justin:

thinking about goals January.

Justin:

I hadn't done it for a couple years cause I was survival mode from pandemic.

Justin:

I feel like that is something to that.

Justin:

Or I just felt like there was no time to pause and reflect or something.

Justin:

I don't know.

Justin:

the beginning of the year, that was definitely my, like, after so much

Justin:

development with knack wall and

Justin:

just,

Justin:

we were running, very lean and I put, I made this crappy

Justin:

little

Justin:

like hu out piece of paper that I put mailing tape and put it on my monitor

Justin:

that literally it was just the word profit

Justin:

so that I was just constantly staring at it.

Justin:

Cause I was like kind of getting comfortable with the

Justin:

idea of, of it being too.

Justin:

Of just kind of in development, cuz

Justin:

that phase is it's kind of a honeymoon for me anyway.

Justin:

It's I like, I love that just like constant fiddling and like

Justin:

it's very internal.

Justin:

we, we don't need, well, that's not true at all.

Justin:

We need the people to be investing through

Justin:

buying things in some sense, but

Justin:

on a daily basis it's really easy to just go, oh, what's the next challenge?

Justin:

Oh,

Justin:

it's

Justin:

fixturing for this piece of the knack wall.

Justin:

And kind of get stuck in that without somebody like I'm thinking more and

Justin:

more probably from talking to you about needing to have some external

Justin:

influence, like a business coach or something that's saying you need to

Justin:

do this, you know, just a place to reflect that's outside of myself,

Justin:

that outside of my own decisions every day, that can be so, you know, siloed.

Jem:

yeah, yeah, totally.

Jem:

Yeah,

Jem:

I think we're similar in that respect of we're more interested in the next

Jem:

fixture than perhaps what we should be thinking about as business owners.

Justin:

I think we're very similar.

Justin:

I mean, you're views ahead of me, I think, but I think you having said

Justin:

that.

Justin:

And I had thought about something like a business coach is honestly

Justin:

that I don't know how to find one at this point is my biggest challenge.

Justin:

Like I

Justin:

would happily be doing that.

Justin:

final step there is.

Justin:

I'm very, very aware and very sure of in myself that, that I am

Justin:

not a business person at heart.

Justin:

I am a person that likes to like, solve the problems around

Justin:

a product and make it good.

Justin:

And that doesn't, unfortunately it's come more and more clear

Justin:

over the past few months.

Justin:

Like it's not helping me sell things, I need an external influence in that way.

Justin:

And hopefully that becomes somebody that works in the company.

Justin:

That's also like more business

Justin:

focused.

Jem:

that'd be nice.

Jem:

I'm thinking about Grims Mo now and like

Jem:

his journey,

Justin:

Mm-hmm

Jem:

um, and whether he will ever get to a point where he is actually.

Jem:

Hires a, like a GM or someone else to actually run it.

Jem:

And he just could commit to his, like, , just mucking around on

Jem:

machines and doing what he he's best at and what he really loves.

Jem:

Um,

Justin:

dream.

Jem:

Yeah,

Jem:

dunno,

Jem:

dunno.

Jem:

I think there's

Jem:

definitely a scale at which that's not possible, just in

Jem:

terms of revenue and turnover.

Jem:

Like I think businesses need to be of a certain size before they

Jem:

can, well, both afford someone in that role, but also there needs to

Jem:

be so much structure in place for the leader to be somewhat absent.

Justin:

Yeah,

Jem:

Yeah

Justin:

I just thought about that.

Justin:

Have you, we talked about that quite a while back, but the,

Justin:

NC pocket they're making, working on the fifth access, kind of

Justin:

like next step up.

Justin:

And I keep thinking about

Justin:

that for myself.

Justin:

Like

Justin:

that's kind of.

Justin:

that's definitely where I would hope to go to in

Justin:

business down the road is like, we've got this kind of machine that

Justin:

makes

Justin:

good products that people need or want.

Justin:

And there's people that know how to make all those things.

Justin:

And I don't have to be involved with every step of it and that I can say,

Justin:

all right, well, I'm gonna go in my room over here and work on this new

Justin:

cool machine that we can hopefully sell.

Justin:

That's that's very ideal to

Justin:

me, kind of what I always, and,

Justin:

and it's, it's very

Justin:

privileged, I think, to be able to think about it that way or

Justin:

to hope to get to that place,

Justin:

because

Justin:

I don't know.

Justin:

It may never happen, I guess to that degree, that's just kind of my like dream

Justin:

position of that's.

Justin:

What I would like to be doing is let's be, I'll be.

Justin:

Idea spinner over here on the corner.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

I wrote chance

Jem:

Tinkering.

Jem:

Is that what you were trying to write?

Jem:

I couldn't work that out.

Justin:

reason, instead of coach.

Jem:

well, I should let you get back to your holiday.

Jem:

I think

Justin:

Yeah, Sounds good.

Justin:

Hmm.

Justin:

I

Jem:

there's no beaches in Texas.

Jem:

Are there

Justin:

There are we're it's so big.

Justin:

It's such a big state.

Justin:

So like we're still pretty inland though.

Justin:

Few hours away from the beach.

Justin:

It's on the Gulf coast

Jem:

Oh yeah.

Jem:

Oh, it's got heap.

Jem:

Heaps coast.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Okay.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

Well it's, it's a big

Jem:

stay,

Justin:

It's

Justin:

enormous.

Justin:

you're like what an hour and a half from coast.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

exactly.

Justin:

It's kinda like Portland, I

Justin:

guess.

Jem:

Oh Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

I don't know.

Justin:

I got nothing else.

Justin:

My mind's on vacation,

Jem:

Good.

Jem:

Get back to it.

Jem:

Enjoy.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

always.

Jem:

Good.

Justin:

I guess.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

It's good to chat.

Justin:

See.

Jem:

Thanks See,

Justin:

I don't know how

Justin:

that audio's gonna be.

Justin:

I've um, been balancing

Jem:

yeah.

Jem:

Show this.

Jem:

Ah, you do

Justin:

on this, pillow

Justin:

it, it fit in this like this foam cut out thing.

Justin:

And I was like, that seems like

Justin:

one

Justin:

I could

Justin:

I could bring, this is the one I used on our first one that was really

Justin:

sensitive.

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