Shownotes
Hannah Said, a dedicated professional in the realm of diversity and inclusion, has built her career by significantly contributing to organizations such as the State Department of Disability in California, Walt Disney Company, and Lyft corporate.
Her journey took an unexpected turn when she contracted COVID-19 two years ago, which left her in isolation but with a burgeoning idea. Amidst the monotony and boredom of her recovery, Hannah dreamed of reuniting with her loved ones.
This aspiration, combined with her recent acquisition of a high-end espresso machine, inspired her to transform her yard into a welcoming space for connection and community. With a vision reminiscent of a childhood lemonade stand, yet tailored for adults, Hannah set out to create a quaint and personal coffee shop experience right at home.
Entrepreneurship and the Value of Community: "I just want my life to be around, create a a micro economy for me and my friends, and they create a micro economy for me." — Hannah Said
TL;DL
Embrace Vulnerability - Hannah advocates for getting comfortable with embarrassment and trying new things without the fear of looking foolish.
Coffee as a Cultural Connector - Both Hannah and I share a passion for coffee that goes beyond the beverage itself.
Diversity and Representation - Hannah's Saffron Cowboy is praised for promoting Arab representation and creating a diverse work environment.
Safe Spaces for Arab Queer Individuals - Hannah and I discuss the challenges of being Arab and queer in spaces that lack diversity and support.
Legacy of Inclusivity - Hannah's focus on building a legacy that supports community activation and diversity sets an example for other businesses to follow.
Personal Identity as Business Strength - Hannah's unapologetic connection to her biracial Middle Eastern and white identity informs the ethos and vision of Saffron Cowboy, making it stand out in the industry.
Memorable Moments
00:00 Full-time specialty coffee business with diverse events.
08:38 Cultural drinks and beans with diverse representation.
15:09 Curious about others' Arab American experiences.
17:33 Midwest experience differs for queer Arabs. Consider moving.
26:29 Saffron Cowboy's impressive growth and impact.
31:39 Grant funding supports disability employment through training.
34:27 Improvement in Saffron Cowboy's business is evident.
38:21 Excitement for industry innovation and diversity.
43:51 Struggling with ethical industry practices in employment.
54:31 Fascinated by stories shaping personal growth.
55:36 Passion for storytelling led to podcasting success.
01:02:53 Saffron Cowboy creating strong Middle Eastern identity.
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2024 Best Podcast Nominations
*Best DIY Podcast Finalist - The Ambies, Awards For Excellence in Audio - The Podcast Academy
*Best Coffee Podcast Finalist - The Sprudgie Awards, Honoring The Very Best in Coffee - Sprudge, The Worldwide Leader In Coffee News
My intro music is from #Uppbeat: License code: LSMVDPBXNKA1UQST
My outro music is from #Uppbeat: License code: U295XJURUTU70RHZ
Copyright 2024 Elena Mahmood
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Transcripts
Welcome to the show.
Hannah Said [:Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for having me.
Elena [:If you would like to just take the stage and kinda, like, go in and start talking about, like, what got you into creating Saffron Cowboy and more about yourself?
Hannah Said [:Yeah. So I came from the diversity and inclusion world. That's what I do professionally for a living. I used to work for the State Department of Disability at the State of California, then did stuff at the Walt Disney Company and then Lyft corporate. And I had gotten COVID maybe 2 years ago, and I was really bored. And I was like, you know, the minute that I'm better, I wanna see every person that I love immediately in the same place. And I had gotten a really nice espresso machine, and I was like, you know what? I wanna turn my yard into a adult version of a lemonade stand, so I wanna do a coffee shop in my yard.
Elena [:That's dope.
Hannah Said [:And so, yeah, so that's how this started. I had a friend who also, we had all gone on a trip. We all got COVID, so I knew they weren't busy. They illustrated the logo. I put out a few different names. At first, I wanted to call my company Silly Girl Coffee, and my friends thought that was not good. So they landed on tap on cowboy, and I was like, you know what? That actually feels really good. And then the tagline is welcome to the Arab rodeo, which is really fun.
Hannah Said [:Yeah. I like that. And, yeah. When I got better, I did it, and all seeing people from my queer community and people from the mosque and my neighbors and my dog park friends and all in one place was so wholesome and really sweet. And then it just started growing. I started doing it every weekend, and then people were, like, barbers, like, can I cut hair in your yard? Tattoo artist, can I do tattoos? Bakers. So my yard kind of became this thing for people.
Elena [:A literal rodeo.
Hannah Said [:I got laid off. Go ahead.
Elena [:It it was literally a rodeo in the back.
Hannah Said [:Yeah. It really was. It was, like, very silly and fun, but I was working full time, so it was always just, like, a side project. Yeah. And then I got laid off, and I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do for work. I'm really stressed. And my friend's like, dude, you have a company. Like, what if you just took it really seriously? So a friend sent me this women of color entrepreneur program through Cal State LA called LEAF, and it's free for women of color.
Hannah Said [:Everybody should check it out. And it was life changing. I got a financial adviser. I got a paid intern that the school paid for, and it kinda just changed the game for me. So I took 10 months to be like, I'm gonna be back in grad school and, like, through this accelerator program. And I have my own line of beans. I have a roaster. We roast every Wednesday in.
Hannah Said [:So to be able to have a tangible product is really fun, And that's just what I do full time. So being able I then started craving not just doing catering events or pop ups. I was like, oh, I really miss doing bringing diverse people together. And I was like, there's a really great way to do that around coffee. So we do a lot of programming around music, writing, so author series, and then films, and then just other, like, vending events just for community to to build together. So being able to be in the arts and culture space, I think, is the niche. But to do it through coffee, has been really, really fun. So that's kinda how it started.
Elena [:That's pretty dope, though. Oh my god. I think you've had a very interesting, like I think this is a different side of what I've seen from the coffee industry. A lot of the time, it's like art forward or it is kinda in the realm of, like, corporate. But, like, you come from very inclusive, like, group of people, like, creating constantly inclusivity, which I think is really dope. And it's pretty inspirational. You kinda just said fuck it. Like, come into the backyard of my house and just, like, shoot shit and do what you want.
Elena [:And then everyone's like, we should make this a full time thing because it's an organic way to create community too, what you did. It's a lot more like
Hannah Said [:I think people think that they have to have it all figured out before you just jump in the pool. And something my friends have said about me, which I think is so nice, is give me, like, a sidewalk, and we'll figure it out. Like, I like being able to be resourceful, and not everything has to be perfect. Right? So it's like the branding has grown. My skill set has grown, but it's like, you should just start. And it could be messy, but I don't know. I think that prevents people from actually starting companies, which is such a disservice because there's so many great ideas living in people's heads that should come to life.
Elena [:Yeah. It seems like you're a pretty confident person. A lot of the energy that you're giving off is pretty, like, reassured and self assured. Did you already feel this confident about, like, kinda just doing Saffron Cowboy then? No.
Hannah Said [:I think it took time. I think, you know, being in the program and being around 40 other women of color trying, like, business owners trying to do the same thing gave me the confidence. I think for the 1st 6 months of the program, I was, like, still looking for jobs in corporate America. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think being able to get into a program or be surrounded by other entrepreneurs
Elena [:Mhmm.
Hannah Said [:Is the key, I think, versus doing it solo that you know, I tried doing it solo, and I would always go back to corporate America.
Elena [:Yeah. It's really hard to kinda, like, build anything without support in general.
Hannah Said [:Correct.
Elena [:So what's really interesting you're you're based in California then?
Hannah Said [:Yeah. Certainly. Live in LA. Yeah.
Elena [:That's dope. You kind of always lived in a pretty diverse city.
Hannah Said [:Correct. Yeah.
Elena [:So what is your background? Can I ask?
Hannah Said [:Yeah. So I'm biracial. My mom's from Tennessee. She's southern white, and my dad's Iraqi. He's from Baghdad. Are you Iraqi? Yeah. Rosalie Dolly. What's up? That was crazy.
Elena [:I will say that, like, both of my parents are Araki, but, yeah, that's fucking crate. I mean, I guess you're somewhere.
Hannah Said [:Really cool.
Elena [:I don't fucking meet Iraqis, though. That's so rare for me. But I'm also based in the Midwest, and I've lived in the Midwest my whole life, so it's like, we don't have diversity out here. I'll tell you that much. That's cool, though.
Hannah Said [:Yeah. There's a really big Iraqi population in Southern California.
Elena [:That checks, though. I feel like California is just a conglomerate of many people.
Hannah Said [:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's kind of where my friends are, like, you should pay homage to your family, like, through the name, which is saffron is the spice that we use in the Middle East. Yeah. And then cowboy, you know, my mom's southern. Yeah. So that's kind of the whole company really is to this quirky identity of being biracial, Middle Eastern, and white.
Hannah Said [:Yeah.
Elena [:Well, that's dope. Like, cool. I love meetings. Well, this is the whole point. Like, I get super excited when I can, like, kinda have something to bond with on so many different levels with
Hannah Said [:Totally.
Elena [:Obviously, Arab people and then like, did you grow up Muslim or Christian?
Hannah Said [:Yeah. So my parents split when I was 4. So my mom's really Christian, and my dad's very Muslim.
Elena [:Mhmm.
Hannah Said [:I identify as Muslim. So I always grew up with a very intense Iraqi community. We had a Iraqi mosque, every weekend that we would go to. That's so cool. Just all Iraqi people.
Elena [:I'm so jealous.
Hannah Said [:Yeah. So I feel very connected to that part of my identity, which is why I think representation is, like, super
Elena [:Yeah.
Hannah Said [:Important for me, because there aren't a lot of Middle Eastern people doing arts and culture work, let alone starting businesses as queer people. Yeah. So, yeah, that's kind of been the drive too.
Elena [:That's really cool, though. Like wow. I didn't expect you to also be at Aki, so that's cool. So, obviously, like, it's a big part of you to always have inclusivity and diversity in your space and obviously in the brand that you're creating then. How have you implemented that into the coffee world then? Like, what have you been doing?
Hannah Said [:Yeah. So all of the coffee, we use, Middle Eastern spices. So a lot of it's, like, cardamom. We'll use turmeric. For the teas, I'll use, rose syrup. I have a rose oat milk tea that I make. Jaleb is, like, a Lebanese Yeah. Date syrup.
Hannah Said [:So date infused drinks, and then I have a grenadine orange blossom, oat milk tea that I make too. So I really want people to, like, experience our cultural flavors. Also, for the bags of beans, they're all Middle Eastern goddesses with Middle Eastern names. So it's Salima, Halima, Leila, and Jamila, and they all have, like, a southern twist to them, so they'll have a cowboy hat or, like, a polo tie. But I really wanted the representation of different types of Middle Eastern people, so Jamila looks very North African. The other ones look Iranian. Other ones look, you know, biracial. And so I really again, everything kinda has to have our a cultural flare to it.
Elena [:Yeah.
Hannah Said [:Because a lot of the people that come to my events are not Middle Eastern. So I want them to be engaging with Mhmm. Our world in a more intimate way. Yeah.
Elena [:That's really cool, though. Like, all of this is pretty, like, I feel, like, innovative. Like, you've really kinda, like, it seems effortless almost the way that you're explaining it, the way that you've kind of integrated a lot of Middle Eastern, like, folklore and mythology and then also a lot of, like, the actual cuisine and, like, a lot of the cultural aspect of how we are connected through food.
Hannah Said [:Correct.
Elena [:But that's really crazy, though. Like, how how has that kind of changed your life now? Because I know that you were working in a totally different part of the world versus, like, obviously being a part of your world in, like, a personal way, but now it's, like, also a part of your world in terms of how you're running your business. Like, how has that kind of, like, changed the way you've lived your life?
Hannah Said [:It's a great question. Yeah. I mean, I get to be fully myself. And there's even moments when I'm where I'm posting on Instagram when I think something's, like, absolutely insane and funny, and I get to post it. Whereas in corporate America, there is this self regulation and, kind of barrier of, like, who you get to be. Yeah. And so in my business, I get to do whatever I want to do, which is still, I feel, like, shocking 2 years later that I get to say, I get to be, I get to connect with people that I want to. Mhmm.
Hannah Said [:I think a lot of times, you know, working in a job, you have to talk to people you don't honestly care that much about. Like, I don't care about Chad's canoe trip in Portland. So for me, I get to actually talk to people every single day that I like Yeah. And that are actually really deeply kind. And majority of the time, I'm talking to people of color. Mhmm. So often other spaces, I was working with predominantly white in white spaces.
Elena [:Right.
Hannah Said [:And even in the DNI teams, they were very, you know, people of color, but the actual corporation is pretty white. So, yeah, to be able to just really create connections, the ways that I that feel good to me is kind of life changing.
Elena [:Yeah.
Hannah Said [:And so it's been very it's made me very allergic to people that aren't kind or that are rude or that are boring or yeah. So I really have been able to
Elena [:I think that it's also very Middle Eastern of you to kinda live a very enriched artistic and, like, cultural lifestyle. I feel like the older that I'm getting, the more I'm starting to try and navigate what being Arab looks like to me. Despite me being 1st generation, like, I've been very whitewashed my whole life or very it was very black or white in terms of the community that was around. There was mostly, if we're talking Arab people, very like, Syrians, Jordanians, Palestinians. There is very minimal Iraqi community growing up besides obviously my immediate family and even the mosques that we would go to. There was a lot of Pakistani. Like, we had a lot of diversity in terms of the Middle East as a whole, but, like, in terms of trying to find, like, what Iraqi meant being Iraqi meant to me. Like, even I couldn't even rely a lot on my family because they're very Europeanized because of, obviously, a lot of other things.
Elena [:There's a lot of things going on in that. So I guess, like, for me, I've always been very jealous of people who can kind of like, I am very, like, in awe of you because you've kind of, like, created this lifestyle for yourself, and it seems unapologetically, which is great. But I guess, like, I think I've talked to I have 2 other friends that are also biracially Arab too. They're half Jordanian and half white as well. How has it been kind of navigating your identity being half Iraqi and half white? I guess, like, is it different, I guess, in terms of also having the community of being Iraqi? Did you feel seen by the Iraqi people too?
Hannah Said [:I mean, I think growing up, it was a little bit difficult because you have to code switch. Right? Like, I'm too white for my dad's taste. I'm too Arab for my mom's taste. I think as I but as I got I don't know. I always felt really not always. Maybe when I was really young, I didn't like, like, being Middle Eastern, like, having my name be Hana versus Hannah. But I think as I got, like, into high school, for sure college, I was, like, so excited and really proud of my identity. And I thought it was really cool.
Hannah Said [:I think yeah. So there's always been a really big appreciation. Part of it's because it's always been really fun. I mean, it it being Arab is very communal. It's very jokey. It's very silly, at least my experience of it. Yeah. So I always felt really connected to it.
Hannah Said [:And then, you know, my mom's southern, so there's a lot of overlap that people don't recognize of being southern and being Middle Eastern. Like, being southern, you're still hospitable. It's very family oriented. Everybody likes to cook. People like to be in nature. Like, very that's so Middle Eastern. And so it didn't feel that different, if I'm really being honest. No.
Hannah Said [:That's Like Yeah. Which was really nice.
Elena [:Half the time, I'm not trying to search for a sob story. Trust me. Like, I'm not trying to look for, like, angst and anguish. It's more like I'm very curious about other people's experiences navigating identity, let alone being Arab because, I've seen a lot more of the other end of that scope of feeling completely isolated from their identity, and even, like, religiously, you know, like, being Muslim and and growing up in America and then also having, like, the influence of a less of a Muslim community. I guess, like, I've always had a really hard time feeling comfortable with my Arab ness even despite being a 100% Iraqi. So it's, like, always really curious about other Arabs or other people who have also kind of grew up around different cultures and different heritage, how they navigated that space living in America because America's not the nicest people to foreigners. So I guess, like, it's a really interesting, lens to look through from your perspective considering, like, LA is pretty diverse and having already a very large ad hoc community. It must be a lot more warm.
Elena [:I feel like you'd probably have a warmer experience than a lot of people kind of, like, isolated from that.
Hannah Said [:Yeah. I I mean, I think it is a really unique experience. Like, my friends growing up that were not Arab were so excited to learn about Islam or me being Arab. Like, so I feel very lucky. Like, a lot of people I know are not privileged in that way.
Elena [:Right.
Hannah Said [:So I feel like because other people that were diverse were so curious by my identity in a really sweet, genuine way, it made me so proud and, like, excited to share or, like, bring friends to the mosque or, like, I don't know, try the food or hang out with me and my Muslim friends. Like, I didn't really have a separation of, like, you know, these are my Muslim friends, and these are my, like, white non Muslim friends. It was like, oh, I'm having a birthday. Everybody already knows each other or, like, has heard of each other, and they're excited to meet. So, like, seeing my hijabi friends hugging all my queer friends is, like, such a sweet thing since I was young.
Elena [:Woah. That's crazy. I'm gonna tell you right the fuck now, don't come to the Midwest.
Hannah Said [:Don't come where?
Elena [:Don't come to where I'm at. Don't come to the Midwest. Don't come to, like, the middle of butt fuck nowhere. Your experience from what you just said, like, obviously, you saw my reaction of just being like, that's fucking crazy because even the Muslims here, like, obviously, like the Muslims in the west, like, very, very fucking different lifestyles Muslims here live or have to live versus, it sounds like, obviously, like LA and New York are pretty much, like, stand alones in terms of America's, like, ideologies, but overall, like, it's just not like here. Like, it's really not that kind of lifestyle. It's I was I find a lot of solidarity through a lot of queer Arabs that I've met through the Midwest because it seems like we kinda have this consensual, like, idea of how we've experienced being queer and then also our identity of being out of it's extremely alienating and isolating, and it's aggressive, and, it's self loathing almost. It's really hard to find unity and balance with that. So I'm just gonna tell all my friends we're moving out to the West because it's it's something that you'd like even I've tried to reconnect with the mosque and and the masjid and everything and, like, try to navigate, can I be queer while also being Muslim? You know? And every time I've been navigating it, it's always felt like a slam on the door every time I've tried to, like, find the scope towards that.
Elena [:And, I feel like a lot of the time, I'm always looking for a sense of community that can help guide me through that, you know? But it doesn't exist here. Like, I just haven't found it here. And, so it sounds
Hannah Said [:I mean, I don't think it's just in the Midwest. Like, there isn't really a specific place where queer Muslims can meet up even in LA. There are a bunch of us, and we found I found enough of them. But I think part of what I want in Saffron Cowboy is to open a multiuse space that is where we can do Jamah prayer, and it is very clear. And there is this, like, central meeting space and then be able to replicate this, like, idea, this multiuse space in other cities across US or globally is the ultimate goal of Saffron Cowboy. Because but it it still isn't in LA. So Yeah. I wanna name that.
Hannah Said [:There there is a huge gap in that as well.
Elena [:Yeah. No. I guess I was just mainly speaking from, like, my experience living here. I think that in general, the Arabic world is divided in America. It's really hard to find unity and finding, like, community within that outside of the Masjid or college. Like, if you're not in one of those two spaces, it's really hard to find more people like us. And, obviously, in light of a lot of the political affairs that are happening, it's creating a lot larger of a platform to try and reconnect even more so now, which is great. I hate the fucking reason.
Elena [:But like, I love the fact that like, we're able to kind of like, hey, like, I want to reach out. I want to find more people like me. I want to connect. I want to make a space where like, we can talk and ask these questions. And, like, a lot of when I was exploring Islam as a total was just, like, it's important to ask questions and to navigate and speak and have these kind of safe spaces. But obviously that this is on a whole other tangent. We kind of did go off topic. I've actually navigated the off topic note this time of, the coffee world.
Elena [:So you were talking about how you also opened a roastery little, like, spot and, like, you started roasting your own beans. How has that been navigating that?
Hannah Said [:Yeah. So, you know, when I was in the program, I was very I really was I was using other people's beans.
Elena [:Yeah. And
Hannah Said [:I was like, I really want my own product. I want to find a roaster. And so I went on a hunt of talking to a bunch of different roasters here in LA, and a lot of them just were not a fit. I was like, this is not the vibe. Either the beans are not good. The vibe of the roaster themselves was very strange. And then I I just brought it up in my class. I was like, I'm really looking for, you know, kind person of color.
Hannah Said [:I'd be really cool if they're Middle Eastern, but that's also a very big niche. So, like, maybe not. And,
Elena [:I You should have reached out to me when I was a roaster girl.
Hannah Said [:What did you say?
Elena [:You said you you should have reached out to me. I was a roaster for a long time.
Hannah Said [:Yeah. So, you know, I didn't know. Like and then my teacher one of my teachers or the mentors was, like, the person that did this cohort last year, she has a company called Picaresca, and her partner is a roaster. And I was like, wait. Can I talk to him? So I met up with them. They are the kindest people literally in the entire world.
Elena [:Love that.
Hannah Said [:And he grew up in Mexico, but his parents and the and the origin is from Palestine. So he's Palestinian and, Latino. So That's cool. Tried the beans, sampled them, figured out where we wanted to source. He had, like, a 1000000000, not 100, like, probably, like, 20 different types of beans. I talked to we talked to some farmers, and then I was like, these are the the 4 that I wanna go, you know, that I feel really good. And so we created a blend. That's the Halima blend.
Hannah Said [:And then, I wanted one decaf, so that's Jamila. I wanted something from Ethiopia, so that's Selma. And then, we have something from Nicaragua, which is Leila. And all of the beans, I feel really proud of. We roast every Wednesday in downtown LA. And it just feels like such a good relationship, and culture fit for me, especially not only is Leo really kind, like, he is from the community. Mhmm. And that feels like, again, I wanna keep working with Middle Eastern people and people that have a deep respect for our culture and and where we're from.
Hannah Said [:And so I've been very, very lucky that all my staff are Middle Eastern. My core staff, I heard a Latina. I have another person who's black and then South Asian. So everyone on the team is a person of color. And that, again, I get to create Yeah. And work with people that I think are cool and are yeah. I don't know. So it feels really special.
Elena [:I mean, like, it all is pretty special. Like, I don't even think, like there's so many elements to how far you've gone with trying to create a very inclusive and diverse, like, legacy of Saffron Cowboy. How did the logo come about? Because that's a very interesting logo.
Hannah Said [:Yeah. I mean, I think the logo, I wanted something silly and something fun. Yeah. I it's a cat or a tiger with a hat. People, you know, diversify it. I think it's silly. I think it's silly. I think it's quirky.
Hannah Said [:I think it shows my personality.
Elena [:Mhmm.
Hannah Said [:I wanted something that wasn't
Elena [:you
Hannah Said [:know, listen. Like, I have a, kind of, a big, this is a biased opinion, but, like, just because you're Middle Eastern doesn't mean that your branding has to have Arabic, like or it has to have, like, all these, like, Middle Eastern symbols. I do have a, the other logo that I, you know, interchange is a horseshoe with an evil eye in it. Mhmm. And that is you know, shows that there's, like, a Middle Eastern aspect. But I think if something's good, it's good. And I don't need to commodify or illustrate my culture to you, is my kind of opinion. Yeah.
Hannah Said [:Because I grew up here. Like, I am western. Like, I want to show that side. Again, there are, you know, flyers and things that have Middle Eastern or Arabic writing in in, some of our stuff. But, yeah, that's kind of where the main logo came from, which is I wanted something really silly. And I also like, a lot of kids come to my events. A lot of my friends have have kids or and I really want there to be a wide range of ages, and that has really come true. Like, the kids call my rose oat milk tea tiger tea, and I think that's so sweet and super special.
Hannah Said [:Yeah. And they love the logo, and they, like, wear their pins to my events. Like, it's so wholesome, and so I really wanted something like that, and it came true.
Elena [:Yeah. That's really awesome, honestly. Like, I'm just sitting here, and I'm, like, thinking. I'm, like I feel like this could go pretty far, like Saffron Chaboy. Like, it's just like you're you're hitting so many things that are very inspirational, but it's also not everybody puts this much effort. You know what I mean? Like, a lot of the time, a lot of people Slack on certain things, but you've created a huge dynamic with your staff, with the branding, with even the sourcing and and, like, how far you're willing to be involved with the roasting process. And then, like, did you did you see this happening for, like, Saffron Cowboy? Like, the way that it has grown and kind of, like, gained this traction?
Hannah Said [:No. I I I I started this just because I was bored, and I, like, got COVID. I always saw this as, like, a side thing that was just, like, fun if I felt like doing it. I did not expect it to become like this until I got, like, the switch in my brain through the program. Yeah. And then once that switch happened, I was, like, oh, I am gonna make this, like, really a big thing. Mhmm. And I want it to be a big thing.
Hannah Said [:And I think, you know, I finished the program in December, and I was like, come the new year, I have a lot more confidence. I have a lot more clarity on what I'm trying to do. This is the year now of growth and visibility. Last year, I wasn't ready to be visible. I didn't I didn't do interviews. I didn't talk about it in press. Now we're, like, really pushing, trying to get features and, like, trying to get press around what we're doing. Like, we want there to be more visibility, because I think what is being created is really interesting.
Hannah Said [:Yeah. But I just didn't, at the beginning, at all, expect any I didn't have to expect on my own line of beans. I didn't expect to be working with farmers. I didn't expect at, like, 0%. But now that I'm doing it, I'm like, I wanna see my beans in retail spaces. I want to see them at international grocery stores. I want to see them in the Whole Foods and the Targets. I want to see it on Amazon.
Hannah Said [:I want there to be these, like, you know, our ultimate goal is to open them while I use space. Like, I really wanna see that come to fruition in the next 3 to 5 years. Then I would like to see it open in other locations throughout the US. So there is this, now I see it. Yeah. But for a long time, no. I did not.
Elena [:Have you always been this driven? Like, I feel like you're a very driven person.
Hannah Said [:Yeah. I've always been, like, since I was little. I think also it's like, you know, since I was little, I always talk to everyone. My mom would be like, when my parents got a divorce, I would, like, try to marry my mom off at the grocery store, like, to any man. You know? Like, I would just talk to people, and I think, like, yeah, it may I I think people are very fascinating, and being able to bring people together is so special to me. Mhmm. And so that is a big drive for me. Like, the biggest joy to me is, like, somebody comes to my bed, I intro them, and then I walk away, and they they're, like, laughing.
Elena [:Like, you create a bridge for other people.
Hannah Said [:Yeah. And then to see them exchange phone numbers or, like, Instagram at the end of the event is, like, literally the definition of success to me, and that is, like, that, I guess, that's what kinda drives me because it's really special to be able to see people connect when we're so disconnected. You know?
Elena [:Yeah. I know that you had said earlier, like, you started off working for the state, you said?
Hannah Said [:Yeah. Mhmm.
Elena [:In disabilities?
Hannah Said [:It yeah. Developmental disabilities. Yeah. Totally. Diverse and consumer.
Elena [:How has that portion, develop development disabilities, influenced Saffron Cowboy Now? Like, have have you felt like that actually was kind of, like, helping you along the way with whatever you had learned during that time working in the state to kind of, like, creating this inclusive community?
Hannah Said [:That's a good question. I don't think it's the only thing that kinda led to it. I think all of my work history I think the one thing that is really special that I want to see come to fruition is this this nonprofit that does arts and culture work around, people with disabilities and also helps people disabilities find employment because people with disabilities are completely under underfunded and Yeah. A lot of people are unemployed Mhmm. Because people are ableist and companies are ableist. And this nonprofit reached out to me to be like, hey. Would you ever want to, design a training where you train people with disabilities on how to become baristas? And I really wanna see that come to fruition. We ended up not being able to get the grant because the grant closed, which was so frustrating.
Hannah Said [:So I was like, I just wrote this huge grant, and we're so excited by this project. But a lot of business owners don't know that the 1st year, if you hire somebody with a disability, the 1st year, it's like an internship that the state pays for. So you don't actually have to pay their wages as a business owner. And then after a year, the goal is, like, you would hire the person, or now they have the skills to then go work at Starbucks, Pete's Coffee, Phil's, Dutch Bros, whatever. And so, again, I need a multi I want the multi use space so that there is this training program, for people to learn how to gain these skill sets and then be able to go get jobs. So I think that is a huge way that I want to bring in disability justice stuff into the fold of the company. And then a lot of the people I work with so I'm neurodivergent. A lot of people that I work with are neurodivergent.
Hannah Said [:So being able to, like, do things in accessible and accommodating ways. Again, I don't always get it right, but at least there's this effort towards this. Yeah. So that's how I'd answer that.
Elena [:So during the duration of you creating Saffron Cowboy, we're gonna fast forward to the actual, like, process of you, like, building it up from the ground. Have you did you receive a lot of support from the community to continue on? Like, did you also receive a lot of support from, like, your family as well?
Hannah Said [:No. Like, my no. My family would still send me DNI jobs, and, like
Elena [:Yeah.
Hannah Said [:I just sit my mom down, so I'm really close to my doll my mom. I don't have a relationship with my dad. And with my mom, I yeah. I just had to sit sit her down, and I was like, you know what would be really supportive is if you help me with my business, if you sent me resources around grant funding, if you sent me resources around this or who I should talk to or any ideas around whatever, like, I don't really need you to keep sending me jobs. That actually doesn't feel helpful. It feels like you don't trust what I'm trying to do. And I think a lot of it's, you know, she's worried. Like, this is a huge financial risk that I'm taking.
Hannah Said [:Like Yeah. I am in debt, and I grew up being very debt averse and very scarcity mindset by my single mom and immigrant dad. Like so I don't know. I think, you know, she is worried. I think they my mom has come a long way in supporting me. All my siblings are, like, what you're doing is so rad, but this is so cool.
Elena [:Yeah.
Hannah Said [:And then my friends are, like, this is the shit. Like, like, this is amazing. Yeah. So that's kind of how that has played out.
Elena [:It's obviously gotten better with, like, obviously, the better Saffron Cowboy's gotten. Right? Totally. It's sad that a lot of, like I think that's just a parent mentality of just, like, a lot of the the idea versus the the product sometimes doesn't always follow through. So especially, like, the the risk of creating a business, there's a lot of there's a lot of chance for success, but there's also, like, an equal chance for, like, failure. And I think a lot of the time parents have that scarcity mindset of just only seeing the negative outcomes versus the the possibilities that could come from it instead. But, I think that they are learning, which is great. So it's like, especially with how you, it comes through, by the way. This the camera, it gives me a lot of this energy of you being a very passionate, driven, and hardworking person.
Elena [:And I can just tell based off of just your face alone that you're really determined to kinda see where it comes and goes. I guess, like, in the future with Saffron Cowboy, is there, like, an ultimate goal outside of the business aspect? Like, obviously, we're talking community versus, like, business. I know that you had, like, kinda talked about, like, the aspirations of wanting retail spaces and, like, in, like, grocery stores. But what does it mean to you with what Saffron Cowboy could become?
Hannah Said [:Oh, I mean, I think it can be a huge central point for Suwanasa Arts and Culture. I am very dedicated to that representation. And, you know, from what we're doing with, like, partnering with record labels and, different writers in the community and different filmmakers. Like, I want saffron cowboy to also be known for you need representation. Like, you come to us or you wanna activate with us. So, like, I describe sometimes, like, the business is, like, the coffee is desk like, the business is like Destiny's Child. Sometimes the coffee is the star, and she's the Beyonce. We're at a catering event.
Hannah Said [:We're at a festival. We're at a wedding. Like, you're there for a coffee. And then sometimes the coffee's in the background. It's like Michelle and Kelly. She's not the star, but she's still really important. That's when we do the programming. So we always have coffee and tea and sometimes Middle Eastern pastries, but you're there for this, like, really rad author, who just, like, launched this book, who's Palestinian.
Hannah Said [:You're here for this, like, album that just dropped from this Moroccan, person who's not binary. Like, this is, like, where I see it going. And then I think it's, like, the biggest win is if somebody came, and bought a bag of beans and was like, oh, I I bought the Hanima blend, and I brought it home, and I gave it to my mom. And my mom started crying because the, her mom who passed away, his name is Halima and also worked the job. So it really brought my mom. It made her feel like it was her mom. She started hugging and kissing the bat. And I started tearing up.
Hannah Said [:I was like, this is, like, so cool. Like, I did not expect this to happen at all. Yeah. So that's, like it's, like, more of, like, the emotional and the connection that I'm really wanting to see just continue to grow.
Elena [:I think that the fact that it started off, I just think that this is such a cool thing you're doing. Like, it really is. I'm, like, really inspired by you and, like, what you've done. And how long has Saffron Cowboy been operating now?
Hannah Said [:For about 2 years. 2 years. Yeah. And then I think being very serious about the last year.
Elena [:Yeah. I think it's just really cool that you're doing something different in the industry. Like, these are the people that I do wanna talk to and hear from and, like especially because I bet a lot of people who listen to the show are experiencing huge wipeouts of burnout from being in the industry, whether they're front of house or they're back of the house or if they're working in sales. Like, it's it's hard to navigate a space where it seems very bleak. And it's really cool to talk to people from the West Coast or, like, the East Coast who have a lot of these more innovative, like, kind of new ideas that they wanna bring into the industry that, like, I do really hope it spreads out and throughout. Yeah. So, like, at this point then, a lot of this seems to run through obviously, we've talked a few a lot about inclusivity and, like, bringing diversity and, like, also bringing Middle Eastern roots to it. How has this kind of, like, shaped your identity? Like, do you feel like it's influenced your identity at all besides obviously strength in it? Like, what does being out of mean to you now?
Hannah Said [:I don't know if it's changed. I feel like it's, yeah, I mean, I've really since, like I said, the high school, I've been very proud and, like, just excited by it. I think it's cool that people are now paying attention even though it's really sad why they're paying attention, is because of a genocide. Mhmm. But there are so many people that want to learn. There's all these people wearing kafias now, like, saying free Palestine. Like, it's I don't know. So I don't know if it's changed.
Hannah Said [:I think it's changed my sense of self, in general of, like, really believing in something and going after it and having confidence and having to deal with every emotion. Like, Like, I have to deal with insecurity and doubt, and I have to learn how to manage and self soothe and self regulate in ways that I never had to before. Because if I get distressed or disregulated by a conversation with a business partner and I ruin that relationship that loses money. Or, you know, I don't go to bed on time, and I have a huge day tomorrow. Like, I'm gonna be completely stressed.
Elena [:Yeah.
Hannah Said [:So it's I've had to change my lifestyle more so than changing my sense of identity, I guess.
Elena [:Do you feel like if you obviously weren't doing Saffron Cowboy, what what do you think you'd be doing now?
Hannah Said [:I think I would still be doing diversity and inclusion work, but, like, probably in my own way. I'm creating this, like, you know, course already with some friends, around regulation, like, because I've been so fascinated around how to stay regulated As a business owner, I'm like, there's so many tools that I want other people to know. So we're creating this curriculum. It's called creative resets for activated people. The acronym is CRAP, and the tagline is, like, we all deal with a bunch of crap. Like, how do you stay regulated through all this crap? And so it's, like, 6 week course or all around the senses. We're gonna have it online where people all over the world can, like, pay to be a part of the course, and then we have another track that's also in person for institutions like schools or, hospitals or corporations. So that's, like, a big project that I'm also working on, which is really fun.
Hannah Said [:Because recently, I'm like, I miss doing d and I stuff. Like, having a coffee business is so cool, and all things are so cool, but you also need to pay rent, right, as you continue to scale. So part of scaling is you need help, but help requires capital. So instead of me going and getting another DNI job that would take up my life, like, how do I create this money on my own? Again, with my friends, like, I just want my life to be around, create a a micro economy for me and my friends, and they create a micro economy for me. And, like, going to conferences with my colleagues who are my friends versus colleagues who I don't know or don't care about, is not of interest to me anymore.
Elena [:Yeah. Yeah. I kinda, realized it's also it's hard to work in a very, heterosexual, like, cisgender life. And that's sort of what is within the coffee industry a lot of the time, especially on upper management, I'm talking. I'm not even talking like a lot of, like, baristas and, like, people who work in, like, barista competitions. But it's it's really hard to navigate the world of business and being somebody who obviously doesn't own one, but working for the people who are more on the mindset of having really I mean, boundaries are important. But, like, having really cut and cold, like, ways of viewing work versus, like, the philosophy, I think, is what you're talking about. Like, you don't wanna work with a bunch of people who don't care about the same ideas and, like, have the same kind of work culture or same kind of, like, admiration and, inspiration to work for what you're creating versus, like, a lot of the time you work for businesses.
Elena [:I have worked for businesses where you have to have this really, like, you're only benefiting me and my business. I don't care for your personal attachment towards it, and you need to disconnect that. And that's really hard to navigate because being somebody who don't doesn't own a business and you're trying to find employment, you obviously wanna find things that are alignment with your your ethics and your morality. I had talked to somebody before, and she was talking about the same struggles of, like, working in the industry and having a really hard time staying in the industry because NES isn't even on, like, a front of the house spectrum. This is more of, like, working with importers where it's like you see a lot of those backgrounds and, like, a lot of the behind the scenes of there's a lot of unethical practices that happen within the coffee production industry and a lot of the coffee industry in general. So I think it's great that you're creating this, like, curriculum in this this, environment for the people that you are bringing into your team. And, like, I just think that everything you're doing, it reinforces a lot of the idea that what I love this show to be is that good people do still exist in this industry. There's still good people that care about, like, a lot of what the coffee was as an experience, which is the people, the humanitarianism, a lot of, like, connection.
Elena [:I think, the element of coffee and what it can provide for people is, like, what you were saying that you really enjoyed, which is creating bridges and gaps for other people who are looking for a lot of, like, a way in. And then you're like, here. Talk to this person. Or, like, I wanna I guess, like, it's really cool because I get to listen to you talk about this, and this is something I've been interested as kinda wanting to build something similar to what you're doing. It's like a collective, where you bring like minded people and a lot of the people that want that community and kind of, like, connecting them to kind of create within itself like an ecosystem. So I guess, like, what's your idea for, like, advice for people who feel, like, alienated or feel like they can't kind of, like, figure out how to navigate it or don't have the resources to do it?
Hannah Said [:Well, I don't know because okay. Yeah. I've been asked this before. Like, I am very privileged, and I am very lucky. So it's very hard to give advice when that is where you start from. Like, I grew up with a very pretty open community that was, like, down from my Arabness. I had a really well paying job that when I got laid off, I got separates. I have I'm very well resourced.
Hannah Said [:I live in a diverse space. Like, there are a lot of things that any advice doesn't actually is not general. Like, it may not actually apply to people that don't have that. So it's very hard to give advice. I think I think, though, the one thing I can say is, like, if there are things that are interesting, like, try them. I'm very I joke that, like, being an entrepreneur is, like, getting comfortable consistently being embarrassed. Like, I'm constantly being humbled and, like, trying something and being, like, I have no idea people will show up to this. I literally have no idea if this will taste good.
Hannah Said [:Like, it's kind of embarrassing. Like, being in an entrepreneur is a good constant act and being okay being embarrassed. And so I think, like, that, I guess, is my advice is, like, if you really are gonna do something, try it and be okay being embarrassed with it versus, like, being embarrassed and then not doing it because you feel so insecure by it. Yeah. I guess that's my advice.
Elena [:I think that's pretty solid, though. I feel like navigating any kind of new space or navigating a new way of, like, lifestyle, like what you're doing, it is constantly being comfortable with being uncomfortable, And I think that it gives a good idea to kinda have, like, an expectation that, like, sometimes you can put your whole heart into something and it can still fall through, but that doesn't mean it equals failure. And then sometimes, like, life will surprise you with a lot of things that you try, and then it could just become something you fall in love with. A lot of the people that start in the world of coffee didn't obviously start with the intention of being in the world of coffee. You you are also a prime example. I'm also a prime example. I've had a lot of people on the show. They are prime examples.
Elena [:And then I feel like once you put yourself in a state of, like, a risk and, like, I think that's where the the blissful aspect of life kind of prevails. It's like, you jumping into this unknown territory will give you an opportunity to understand yourself more. And I think that's the strength of building a business, building an ideology or a philosophy, a way of living, is that once you start to learn who you are and what you love and and finding yourself within that, it's it strengthens the alignment of whatever you're trying to create. It strengthens the path of what that eventually does turn into. The obstacles that come in front of you become less of an obstacle, becomes more of a challenge. It's all mentality too. I kinda believe in everything is based off of perspective and mentality in life. But, obviously, as an entrepreneur, how much have you felt like you've kind of connected with the actual coffee aspect? I know that you were talking we have been talking a lot more of the everything outside of that, but how have you felt like you've connected more with coffee? Obviously, Kahua was a big part of the Arabic world.
Elena [:Kahua in general, like us having these communal spaces to drink, tea or chai or, like, coffee or gahoa. There's always been a very strong presence in the Arabic world, or the Middle Eastern world of, or the MENA world of just having coffee and tea as a as a way of connection. But, like, how is that shown like, how have you shown love through that then? Yeah.
Hannah Said [:I mean, growing up in the mosque, Chai and Dahua were always very present, and so coffee has been so part of my life. There was a Starbucks that got built next to the mosque, so, like, we would all the, like, youngsters would go hang out there. That was, like, our cool coffee place at the time. And, you know, we don't drink alcohol. So coffee is I I don't drink alcohol. So growing up, it was coffee shops and till this day are where I go and, you know, connect and, meet people and do work and take meetings and laugh. And it's been, like, this third space for me that's always felt pretty safe. So I think as I have gotten more involved, I think I've gotten more specific on, like, where I like my coffee, like, regionally.
Hannah Said [:Yeah. Ethiopia is really berry and very fruity. Like, I really like more chocolatey, hazelnut y, sugary, notes. I think I've gotten a lot better on, like, different nodes that I enjoy and how to talk to people about that because they think it's all the same and it's not. Yeah. So I think that's, like, something that's really developed from taking it more seriously, and also, like, how the process happens. Like, how do we source it ethically? How do we have a good connection with the growers? How do we roast it in a way that feels, like, really good? Like, how are you making sure that the beans are packaged correctly with, like, a seal that, like, lets out the smell? Like, learning kind of the technical stuff has been really interesting. Mhmm.
Hannah Said [:Yeah. So that's been something that's developed from taking this more seriously.
Elena [:Yeah. Have you have you feel like you've fell fallen in love with coffee more?
Hannah Said [:Oh, I've always been a coffee snob. Yeah. I did.
Elena [:It's just A coffee snob?
Hannah Said [:Oh, yeah. Like, since I was young, I always, like, started, like, finding 3rd wave coffee shops. Me and my brother, like, our family knows that, like, that's our thing.
Elena [:Mhmm.
Hannah Said [:We have set siblings. You know? They're white, so they drink. So my my parents joke, like, we're the morning coffee kids, and then they're the late night, like, cocktail kids. Yeah. So I've always been a huge coffee stout.
Elena [:That's awesome. I kinda, like, fell in love with coffee as I started working coffee. And I worked with Starbucks first. So
Hannah Said [:that's Totally.
Elena [:Yeah. That's been the the whole progression. I guess, like, I'm gonna throw it over to you now. You have every opportunity now to ask me anything you'd like to know. And all Yeah.
Hannah Said [:I mean, I think I'm just
Elena [:It'd be the funniest shit if you were just like, yeah. I'm not interested in anything.
Hannah Said [:Oh, no. I'm very curious around kind of, what made you want to be able to talk about this with people. I know you named, like, being able to connect, but, like, obviously, it takes more work, than just a phone call. So I'm very curious what you kind of want from the podcast or the desire for the podcast.
Elena [:I kind of always so, like, kind of like a short little background. Like, I grew up also mostly in a very Midwest state. Like, I'm from Ohio, and I and I lived in Northeast Ohio versus where I'm at now, which is Central Ohio. And I've always been around really strong storytellers in my life. And I think that that just kinda is an Arab quality. Like, we really can transform speech even if it's not in, like, Arabic. It's like I've always been fascinated by storytelling. I've always felt like it was something that could like, I as somebody who's a writer, I am an English major.
Elena [:I have a huge love for literature, and Middle Eastern literature also. It's just, like, I've I've fallen in love with the idea of storytelling and, like, what it does for people in terms of healing, in terms of validation and affirmation and and feeling seen by people. And I think that as somebody as someone who's strong in emotional intimacy and emotional alignment with what I do and and constant intensity of my ideal like my I'm a very passionate and intense person. Okay? Like I don't make superficial relationships with people. I don't believe in superficiality in general. I do not like corporate lifestyle. I think that it's ruined a lot of building connection in, like, the sincerity and genuine aspect of it. But I grew up with, my grandfather being an Iraqi diplomat.
Elena [:So he worked as in the Iraqi embassy before Saddam started. So this was before Saddam started as his reign, and he left and fled because obviously he didn't support. And I just remember being in awe and, like, just inspired by the stories this man would have, and he would just go on these tangents and and just it it felt so fantasy. It didn't even feel real. And that's just because of the way he would tell these stories and, how my grandma would also chime in with her versions of the stories. And, like, my my dad, like, I don't have a relationship crazy and loud and it's just like all those things. But, like, I just fell in love with the idea of how much speech can really shape a person's light, like, just overall. So that kind of stayed with me during the duration of my my growth as a as a human and just kind of navigating what I loved in life and what I've valued in my platonic and romantic relationships.
Elena [:And I just kind of fell fallen deeper and deeper into this path of how do I how do I hear more stories? How do I tell more stories? How do other people hear more stories? What's a good way to tell stories? And I think that obviously, through the digital era that we've both lived through, podcasting has kind of given this great way for theatrical speech. And even if it's not spoken in that way, it's it's dramatized. It's digitalized. It's conceptualized that way. And it's kind of become a huge part of something that I fell in love with more than actually the coffee industry. It was just, like, being able to hear more people's stories and and getting to have, as much as I can and and as much as the other person's comfortable with, some type of, like, intimate relationship over a period of time where it's it can last. Like, I've made great friendships through this platform. I've met people who can give me bridges to other people who I can talk to on the show.
Elena [:But, like, a lot of what I want this to eventually be becoming is something that it's it's hard for me to conceptualize. Like, I I I don't if I'm being fucking real, like, I don't really know if this will become anything. I don't know if it'll, like, kinda, like, kick start into something else. Like, I've I've always loved the idea of just being able to do this more 1 on 1 in person. Like, it'd be awesome to just kinda, like, fly out and, like, meet these people and, like, we can just chill over, like, a glass of coffee or, like, a cup of wine or something, like, and and just be real for a minute. And, like, that's what matters to me are those small moments of, like, realness and raw vulnerability and emotional, like, openness that matter to me. I mean, like, I've I kind of found my my way of navigating podcasting in general that I have, like, aspirations for other projects. I don't know.
Elena [:Like, I don't I I think that it's amazing that people come on the show in the first place, let alone, like, I don't think that there's, like, a huge future for it. Like, I I try my best to be humble and modest because I I don't I haven't really navigated a lot of success in my own life story. So, like, I'm just I'm kinda grateful for people just kinda wanting to be on the show and be a part of this. You know?
Hannah Said [:I love that. Thank you. Thank you for having me too. This was really fun. And, like, certain questions, I was like, wait. I've never really thought about it.
Elena [:Yeah.
Hannah Said [:So they were, like, making me think about things that I'm like, oh, that's actually really interesting.
Elena [:Yeah. I think that also, like, I wanted to create the space mostly for people of color also because Correct. I don't have any, like, I don't have any beef with white people, but at the same time, it's just, like, I I just want to feel a bond that kinda just transcends certain things that just cannot be taught or explained. And, on a selfish aspect, I wanted to find more Arab queer people. Like, I I don't have that community here. The community that I do have here is a lot gatekept and alienating. It's not welcoming and not warm, and it sucks because the older that I'm getting, the more I want to explain. Like, I want to know more about my Iraqi heritage, and it sucks because, like, 1, there's no really large Iraqi community here.
Elena [:And then, 2, like, the people I could have learned are alive anymore. So it's like I don't have people who I can just kinda ask these kind of questions and, like, want to have a friendship with those people. You know?
Hannah Said [:Totally. Totally. Wow. Well, thank you.
Elena [:Yeah. So I guess now we can, like, kinda transition to the point where I did kinda, like, preface on having a hot take. So this is basically your opportunity to kinda have whatever kind of opinion or observation or experience you've experienced, within the coffee industry that you'd like to kind of bring to awareness or talk about?
Hannah Said [:I mean, the coffee industry is super male dominated. Everybody knows that.
Elena [:Yeah.
Hannah Said [:And I think I also don't see Arab representation in the coffee world. So it's like, I'm a woman, I'm queer, I'm Arab. Yeah. Like, that in itself, I'm not really seeing, and so the diversity angle, I mean, there's so many people doing it, that are, like, Latinx, or there are people that are doing it that are Middle Eastern. Like, there's Yemeni Coffee in Gahua House, but it's, like, very male Yeah. Presenting, and it's also very monolithic. So it's like, you're only hiring other Arab people, or you're only hiring Latinx people. You're only hiring people that are black.
Hannah Said [:Like, I really like that, yeah, my focus is hiring, Middle Eastern people, but we do have very diverse people that work within for the brand and for the company. That feels really special to me.
Elena [:Yeah.
Hannah Said [:I'm not again interested in creating another silo. I want to actually emulate the diversity of where I live in my company. So I think that's kind of my little hot take of, like, oh, like
Elena [:I don't
Hannah Said [:know if it's a hot take because I feel like it's very universal that, like, the coffee industry is very mellow on.
Elena [:Yeah. I also think that, like, as somebody who's also a part of that really, really small minority of, like, being Arab queer and, what was the last one? Arab queer and female presenting or whatever. It kind of fucking sucks when you you kinda have to navigate this world, like, with this idea of, like, you have to constantly prove yourself, prove to them why you're in this space. So, yeah, I also agree with that. I think that, like, that's something that started a lot of, like, this frustration, this, like, angstiness of just, like, this is just annoying to have to deal with, like, the lack of diverse representation, whether it's even being Middle Eastern, like, even South Asia Southeast Asian or, like, like, obviously, like, Indian or whatever. Like, I would have loved to I would have loved. It's not dead. I would love to see more of that, kinda throughout time.
Hannah Said [:Me too.
Elena [:Well, I really appreciate you coming on the show. It's been great chatting with you.
Hannah Said [:Thank you.
Elena [:Was there anything else you'd like to say before we kinda, like, log off?
Hannah Said [:No. This feels great. I really appreciate you taking the time.
Elena [:Yeah. Well, I won't hold you any longer. I know you're probably really busy with other things. So thank you for, like, clocking on and being on the show.
Hannah Said [:Yeah. I'll see you soon, hopefully.
Elena [:Take care. Yeah. Thank you. Bye. I read I read soon. Yeah. That's good. So for this episode, I felt really good about this episode.
Elena [:You know? Like, I feel like I really didn't have to like, there was just so many good gems that she was dropping about what Saffron Cowboy is creating for itself. It's sort of becoming its own entity that she'd only, like, had as a funny idea. It seems like she's trying her best to implement so many different cultural aspects of being Middle Eastern, of working with inclusivity. And that was, like, reiterated many times, throughout the episode. And I think it was great that she has so much pride in her heritage and where she comes from and even being biracially, Middle Eastern and white that, like, a lot of the time, you'll hear these stories where there's this constant loss of identity. And it it seems like overall, you could sense it just based off of her coming in and talking, that she's very confident and very self reassured and has a strong idea of what she wants to accomplish and all these other things, that it it's it's, it's solid. There's a lot of foundation. There's a lot of grounding that seems to be unshakable.
Elena [:And I think that it's really, really respectable and inspirational to kinda see somebody creating something new and innovative in the industry. Their hot take is kinda like, I think that that's just gonna be a constant reiteration on the show. It's just like there's a lack of diversity. There's a lack of inclusivity. There's a lack of, like, representation. But, like, it was really fucking cool on a personal level to see almost like an idol figure. Giving very older sister energy too is just like I was just like, woah. And I am also the youngest in my family that she kinda represented and reminded me of my older sister of having this, like, really strong, strong sense of self and strong sense of, like, it's just like a strong presence, and I really really appreciated listening to her story.
Elena [:I loved listening to what she wanted to create for Saffron Cowboy. And I honestly think it will become something successful based off of the energy she just was bringing on talking on it. I think that it's great that it's starting to build traction. I think that it's also starting to kinda sit with her that, like, it's becoming something and she's starting to feel more on board with doing more publicity and press and, like, having these kind of conversations. Yeah. I honestly don't I don't have anything else to say. I think that it's gonna do great, and I think that she's great. What she's trying to do in LA is great.
Elena [:I think that a lot of people can kinda, like, want to follow suit because of how much she's going like, she is falling in love with it.
