Missed the Live Q&A Session? Catch Kasim, John, and our Google Ads strategists every Friday at 1 PM PST as they answer everything you want to know about Google Ads, especially on Performance Max campaigns - strategies, secrets, guides, and so much more! See you next week! 💚

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For now, you can listen to the replay where Kasim and John discuss if Performance Max is Google's way to make advertisers spend more money. They also share why you're missing half the story if you're measuring PMax by ROAS, why 90% of the digital marketing battle is targeting and 10% is messaging, the recommended bidding strategies and setups for optimizing your PMax campaigns, and many more!

00:00 Weekly Live Q&A To Scale Your Business through Google Ads - July 1

02:02 PMax for lead generation: What to do if you're still getting fraudulent traffic even if you have a long fill form

06:07 Running Performance Max for fashion brands

09:23 Expansive bidding strategies vs. restrictive bidding strategies

13:07 What to do when your competitors are heavily bidding on your brand terms

16:35 Do small budget adjustments reset the learning Performance Max campaigns Scaling your PMax campaigns for

18:32 Tips for promoting a business that sells backlinks and does SEO services

20:58 Is Performance Max just Google's distraction to make advertisers spend more money?

24:01 ​Are bidding strategy names misleading? Do Maximize Conversions work?

25:12 Would YoutTube videos work well for fashion brands?

28:43 If you change the bidding strategy in PMax, you'll kill the campaign for two weeks

29:36 PMax campaigns for eCommerce that don't have a proper category in the Google taxonomy

31:22 PMax only charges per click

32:16 How to upend cost per funnel steps into the columns in Google Ads

34:26 Using CPA for tofu YouTube campaigns

35:27 Scaling a Performance Max campaign

35:54 Is your conversion rate dropping significantly after running an experiment? This could be the reason why

38:13 Will non-typical YT video assets work for PMax campaigns?

41:00 Running PMax campaigns with Facebook Ads

43:08 Local campaigns vs. Should you transition your Local campaigns to PMax campaigns

46:58 Can you do anything if Google is hiding 50% of your clicks in the search terms?

50:49 PMax for lead generation: How to separate your asset groups

51:33 Should you upgrade your landing page for an ad group?

54:57 Building a DSA campaign rather than Standard Shopping with PMax

Northbeam:

https://www.northbeam.io/

Related Videos:

👣 Scaling Performance Max Campaigns With John’s Stair-Step Method - Live Q&A: https://youtu.be/oP4JmGyBKCg

🎢 PPC Talks: How to Scale a Performance Max Campaign: https://youtu.be/-_S4SOTRzX8

✋ Less Is More: Why You Should STOP Touching Your Google Ads Account: https://youtu.be/UXwdfGOnIeo

🦾🦿 The Ultimate Guide to Google Ads Performance Max for 2022 (Part 1-3): https://youtu.be/oXoFn7dUvL8

https://youtu.be/_mOv9_qrtpg

https://youtu.be/syadgcDVntU

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There's game that people play that they do, Florida man, and

then their birthday in Google and they find out what articles pull up.

I've done that.

It's crazy.

Cuz there's not a day.

You

Can insert that doesn't end in something crazy.

Yeah.

It's pretty nuts.

I think mine was Florida man gets.

Alligators high by pouring meth down the sewer drain.

that's awesome.

looks like Nicole Dorn just joined as a member.

Thank you, Nicole.

Grateful to you.

shout up our new members.

Shall we, while we're waiting for questions to roll in best.

Normally we get here and there's like a thousand questions, Ryan.

Huron's here.

What's up, Ryan?

Thanks for being anybody.

Hey Ryan.

John's, Playing digital nomad, just so y'all know.

That's why he is, in Florida.

And I'm gonna be here for next, two weeks.

How are you liking it?

It is muggy.

It's raining every day, this week.

So we came in the wrong date.

dude, we've lost 31 members, oh, no, I just lied to you.

Those are members that we gained.

That's just down by 11%.

Oh, I was like, man, no one loves us anymore.

Yeah.

I was about to say I just had a little mini heart attack, so, shouting out our

new members, Nicole Dorn, NX NW, Jeffrey Kelani, Gustav Jacobson, Brian ha.

And John ho and Leslie Dresler.

Thanks for being here.

Y'all thanks for joining us is awesome.

Ryan says I'm an actual real life Florida, man.

that's so funny.

You're scared of those Florida mans.

Yep.

oh, Facebook user says faces of Google ads.

Gods.

Thank you.

Facebook user.

Yeah.

Sorry if you're on Facebook, we can't tell who you are because the

integration with restream sucks.

Yeah.

Integration with Facebook just sucks as.

Yeah.

while we're waiting for questions, dude, I wanted to ask you, it's

unbelievable to me, how much of Google's display traffic is fraudulent

traffic, bots, click forms, et cetera.

I know we have the long form advice that we're offering to people with

lead gen, but beyond that, and the reason I'm asking this is because Ralph

Burns brought it up to me yesterday.

We were doing an episode of perpetual traffic and he is, dude, we have

a 15 field form and we're still.

Click form submissions.

Yeah.

So if you got the long ass form already and that's still

not working, what do you do?

The one way you can do it.

And, some clients need to do this, but it only works.

If you do have high amount of traffic is you actually only, use the

quality of leads as your conversion.

So one of the clients that we're working with is sending us a daily report.

And it's three to five leads a day, of quality leads that we're, converting from.

Lead to opportunity when they had a conversation with them and it was quality.

We gotta wait till we of course hit our a hundred user minimum, but, to

like start to enable that audience.

But one thing that I would say is, actually important is upload your G lid

of good quality conversion actions daily.

And you're gonna see if you have one or two leads that come through,

let's say there's five spam.

There's two.

Good.

You count those two.

You don't count those, other three that are spam.

And so you don't actually have.

A conversion event created when somebody fills out a form you turn that off.

Instead you upload conversions and that covers your conversion

event based off of G click.

So it's all offline conversion track.

Exactly.

It's all import from clicks, offline conversion tracking.

Correct?

I have an idea.

It's a big bit of a pain, but it's what you have to do now in today's day and age.

So I'm gonna see if my camera's all fuzzy, if and where possible.

What if you created a fly.

So, we're doing some real estate, investing leads right now.

And let's say we have a long form for somebody who's looking to

sell a large piece of real estate.

And what I've noticed with a lot of the click form traffic is they're just

selecting the very first option in the dropdown, especially if it's pre-selected

so you create, a dropdown or maybe two where the first option is something that

real traffic would never actually select.

Leave that enabled.

And so if somebody really converts and, they're going through and being

conscientious about how they're filling out the forms, they're

gonna select the real option.

But if it's left on the default, know, go to thank you page a, so

it's not counter as a conversion.

Yeah.

And I was even , the other part two that you can do is only take,

if we have a three step, the people that finish the third step.

So it might be like, first step is X.

Second step is X.

Third step is X, but you don't actually say what step they're on.

So the people that are in the click farms, aren't knowing when they're reaching the

end, but it's three or four questions on each page and then three or four.

Pages.

and then the Facebook user right now.

Sorry, I don't have your name here.

It just says is offline conversion action scale below.

Yes, it actually is more scalable because what you're doing is you're

only showing Google what audiences are converting and it will scale.

Well, I did this within our client that we just imported.

we counted all the conversion actions and then we had added an additional

conversion action called quality lead.

And we still counted when it was original form.

Now this is not a five step form though.

So all of our leads there have 40% show rate in performance max,

which means that these people are contact that 40% rate of, oh, hi.

Yes.

I fill out the form and I'm interested.

So it's really high quality leads, but the ones that go to close,

we started adding those in and we actually made all of our campaigns.

We have 11 campaigns running right now and all those have been getting

better and better and better because of the lead quality formula.

We actually saw that we can now just remove our T CPA and remove our

T row as, because we were given a lead value to those leads, depending

upon which actions they fill out.

And we actually were able to increase the ceiling because, we were able to become

less restrictive and start dumping in more and more, cash into the accounts because

we knew that that quality was there.

So we didn't have to say, well, if we get 30 conversions, but half from our junk.

So what our target CPA has to be, 60, it was actually a lot easier to scale.

Ready for questions.

Let's do it.

Arms of Andes, any information related to PAX and fashion brands would be great.

It's hard because it's subjective.

It's the fashion brands, a lot of Heines will happen too, is

you have cyclical natures of what is in stock and outta stock.

And what's in fashion, not fashion.

The reason why fashion brands work online is everything that Google is trying not to

be, which is the audience based followers.

One click purchase, because this is something that is hitting

a good audience right now.

Google's trying to say, what's the skew and what's the search traffic before?

Well, you have a new release and a limited run of five items, which is

a lot of times what fashion brands do as just saying, Hey, I have these, you

know, 40 addresses once they're gone.

Well, Google finally learns how to actually sell those and then says, whoop.

Now it's gone.

Go find it again.

It always like it's in a constant ramp up every single time you take

away a product or add a new product.

So for fashion brands, performance max, or even Google ads.

May actually not be, the best area, if you don't have frequently in

stock items that are very similar.

and as fashion changes, googleize learns more and learning

more isn't necessarily good.

It just means that it's gonna take longer to kind of develop this cyclical rate.

So, where fashion brands do well is when they have very similar items or a theme.

so they have sundresses, okay.

The people that I always constantly come back and you're gonna see

that, some items sell out really, quickly and some never move.

We found that if you put those items that never move on a really deep

discount, they'll move really quickly because you still have people that are

interested, just not at that price.

So what you have to understand about fashion brands is that

you're working against everything.

Google is trying to lean into with automation.

So what might be good not even using performance max at all, use

a lot of DSA and inbound search.

That is around the type of products that you have or use performance max.

In a minority version of the campaign ad spend.

So focus on DSA, focus on inbound search, kind of use the ad groups inside of

your search campaigns to say, if you have one piece bathing suit, two piece

bathing suit, hats, whatever it may be.

So that people that are really, just kind of Googling around and finding that

performance, max will fill in the gaps and start to help do do remarketing.

But if you're leaning into full automation, just know you're giving

yourself the least leveragable capabilities inside of Google.

I can't believe, you'd say not to use performance max yeah.

We have some brands.

Well with some brands, not, the one fashion brand that gives us a five X

return constantly and scalable is selling, around a specific band or a group of.

So it works well for them because if you're a fan of this specific band

and they keep coming up with hats and shirts and ties and blazers,

and pants belts and that kind of stuff, you're like, cool, cool, cool.

I like this.

Those are very cyclical.

They love that stuff, but if you're just blue dress and then red high heel, it's

like, well, crap, Google's gonna find a brand new audience every single time.

So niche, or hyper specific works better.

Audience based, Mike Griffin, can you explain the difference between

expansive bidding strategies and restrictive bidding strategies?

Yes, very much, sir.

A expansive is left.

What they call wide open, maximize conversion value or maximize conversions

or even manual CBC with enhanced enabled.

What those expense of bidding strategies mean is that they are aggressive.

They will not stop and they will not be selfs restricted.

They're only restricted by how much money you give per day a

target return on Aspen or a target.

CPA means that if I will append that to an expense of bidding strategy.

So go find me as many conversions as possible.

If it's under 20 bucks, that's target CPA $20.

So it says, okay, I'm gonna get as aggressive up into a ceiling.

It gets restricted because it's hit that.

Okay.

If I try to get this user to buy something, I might get to buy, but

it's gonna be a 26 and that's gonna be over what I'm trying to get.

So it restricts.

So it goes as aggressive until it hits a wall.

And then that's the restrictive bidding strategy is adding a target return on that

spend or a target cost per acquisition to a maximize conversion value or a

maximize conversion bidding strategy.

And when you're adding those restrictions, one of the things that's always been

interesting to me is the fact that you limit learning and then B the fact

that I feel like Google's gonna start using that against us, because it starts

to understand where your margins are.

And so adding a restriction, even if Google could meet that restriction, if you

have two competitors who are willing to pay for the same traffic and they have a

less restricted threshold, then Google's just gonna go favor those competi.

Right, when you're talking about restrictive bidding strategy, you're

also locking it into a finite audience.

And finite means limited a figure amount, like 12,647 people

an actual amount of people.

Because what Google has done is you said, okay, Google learned wide open, just

go after anybody you think is possible.

And this says, I found 60 of these hundred are good.

And then I say, okay, well actually go to target CPA and get only the $20.

The 60, I would've converted outta the a hundred, just became

trying to convert 30 outta 35.

So it spends a lot less.

It spends one third, cause you're not going after a hundred going after the

35, but he started to convert them.

Activity dies down a bit in terms of Aspen, but you get really good results.

And then all of a sudden that just starts to decay into where, I ran out of people

and there's no one else out there that I know will convert, why haven't looked?

Cause you told me not to.

Okay, go look and then boom, you have to go back.

So a lot of times you'll have to flip that on and off.

If you wanted, to, my opinion is actually for performance max

specifically, and now starting to be some other different type of campaigns.

Don't leave target CPR, target row, as on, I'd actually leave it off as much as

possible, and then limit the ad spend.

Once you pull back an ad, spend a little bit, you'll find that it becomes

a little bit less aggressive when you find a good even keel it can run

through, that same path for a while.

Or you start to add in a little more Aspen over time and scale.

The reason why Google doesn't know information about these users is because

a could be a short sales cycle or B something that's a brand new product.

If Google only has people that click one time and then purchase.

Or let's say, there's a good example of a person that provides loans for people.

If someone says best loans near me, and they often just click on

the first one and say, okay, cool.

Convert on a form.

Google has no information about these people for target CPA to work.

Cause it's like, person Google it for the first time.

Do you think they're gonna convert?

No, that's the first time they Google and then you miss him.

so a lot of times you remove that restriction.

All of a sudden you're like, wow, this is performing really well because Google's.

Predetermining, if it should show an add to that user.

And the predetermination is based off of knowledge that Google knows about them.

And if Google doesn't know about them, it performs poorly.

Katie hije says, Hey guys, curious if you have any recommendations or

strategies for brand campaigns when competitors are bidding heavily on our

brand terms, we're spending millions a year on our own brand keywords.

We have a lot of clients that do this, and I actually recommend Against this a lot.

but you'll need to have.

A few things you're measuring first.

So a lot of times when you bid heavily on your branded terms, you get a lot of

new traffic that is coming in from other efforts of finding out about you, or you

are spending too much on returning users.

Both are driving up your CAC, your cost required your customer people.

Aren't just gonna randomly Google a brand name because they just thought of it.

One.

if they had to have heard about it somewhere else.

So the more ad spend you put in, you have to think about, you're also

adding that on top of the, all the other information, a $10 cost for

acquisition and Google on brand and a $40 cost for acquisition on Facebook

is actually a $50 cost for acquisition.

When you add those two together and I'm using very simplistic terms here, the

less you spend on brand, the more it will come back through direct and organic.

What you have to know your numbers?

Well enough to know is if I took $50,000 a month out of my brand,

do I lose less than $50,000 a month in my direct and organic, or is the

increase 48, but I spent 50 less.

Okay.

So now I'm saving a whole bunch of money here.

What the losses of, to your competitors often is not that much.

Usually I find that I can pretty much pull out a brand 80% and

lose about five to 10%, maybe.

You will lose some, that's a guarantee you will lose some to

your competitors, the revenue lost smaller than what you were spending?

All you did then is reduce your C.

Now on the flip side of that, taking the $50,000 a month out, putting

that into cold traffic campaigns.

For example, obviously you discovered YouTube GSP display,

Facebook, Instagram, TikTok.

You are going to find that the $50,000 that you were just adding on top of

people that were probably gonna buy from you anyway, you can actually increase

your traffic and a higher CPA on the call traffic than you were finding a

CPA on that branded first time user.

It's really interesting in every case is unique.

One client, I have a dollar 30, two C on my brand cost required a customer, cuz

it's not coming there on the other one.

It's 278 because that's the last step in the funnel that is really, really

expensive because it's like people just Google the brand name all the time.

No new customers are coming in once in a while.

They slip through my cost of acquiring new customers.

Astronom.

It doesn't make sense to spend there.

It's cheaper to go find cold traffic than it is to try to

find a new customer in my brand.

So your situation's gonna be, have to be solely unique.

You have to look at every single channel.

You have to look at the cross attribution between those channels.

You have to look at what loss is from brand.

If you weren't spending on brand, which has only been only

can be had through testing.

Don't focus on too many things and think about your own real life here

in this scenario where you're like, Hey, I need to buy a third shirt.

And you go to Google and you're like, I love these shirts.

I'm gonna go buy a third shirt and you see someone else.

You're like, well, I hate those shirts now.

Who are they?

It doesn't happen as often as people that are like, no, I just need to go back

to this website and order another one.

So identify how much new traffic is coming from your brand.

Why, what the cost is of that.

And then where it's coming from originally in like a top conversion

path nor beam is great for this.

And then identify, am I overspending just to protect my brand name that

I wouldn't have actually lost?

If I turn it off, will it come back through direct Inor?

John Rolo John Rolo says, you guys have said this before, and I've now seen

myself, especially with performance Maxs that adjusting budgets up and

down seasonally does not scale.

Well, how about small daily adjustments?

He goes on to say a few dollars up or down.

Will that send campaigns into learning?

They'll send 'em in learning.

we'll send PAX campaigns in learning, not back into like a learning mode where

all of sudden you just budget down a few bucks and it's like learning that isn't

happening in PAX one 10th of the time that would happen in a normal campaign,

hold the budget says well learning, I mean, I've doubled budgets from

like 1000 to $2,000 a day and it still hasn't happened very rarely.

Does it happen?

I've only really actually seen PAX that I can remember happening when

you change a bidding strategy.

That's a big reset.

So if you started on maximize conversions and you switched over maximize conversion

value, you're gonna dip for two weeks.

It sucks, for seasonality.

Can you pull that first question up?

Yep.

Especially performance max that adjusting budgets up and

down seasonally does not scale.

Well, I disagree.

If you're talking about like, Hey, my busy season's coming up.

Start to scale up.

No, that happens really well.

We even predicted a performance max pullback with a client because we said,

Hey, it's after father's day, we're gonna start to see a sales decline.

I'm like, well, maybe let's see, sales still decline.

I had to pull back PAX.

we kept it above a specific goal, but I gotta whittle down my

daily ad spend every other day.

Just make sure that I'm still keeping the same row as during that pullback,

the first year of running this.

But we just figured, Hey, seasonality for this type of product is

usually, and yes, it was correct.

But it was able to scale right up to that point, just as easy

as we did on smart shop or even searching DSA the previous year.

So yeah, you can scale up and down seasonality, with PAX very,

very easy, cuz it is still DSA.

then there is still smart shopping in there.

So just know that new customer acquisition might be harder in

the off season, which is why you can't scale to that goal very well.

But you're still earning those users for that next year.

You're gonna have a better ramp up.

Tido, any tips for promoting a business that sells back

links and does SEO services.

Yeah.

Kas, do you wanna take this one?

I think I have a business for back links that I love.

I have a couple for back links that I love.

Yeah.

But if you wanna promote the backlink business, that's the

problem is, oh, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I read that wrong.

No.

That's okay.

So here's the issue is back links are, I think I'm gonna go out on a

limb and say, technically black hat.

Now, if you're doing backlink promotion, you're raising your hand and asking

for a level of penalization that could be catastrophically damaging

to anybody that engages with you.

So as far as whether or not you wanna show up on Google's radar by

using Google services to promote back links, I don't think I would use those

words, even if you're able to sneak them into your ad copy or landing

pages, I would stay away from that.

I would stay.

SEO generic services, you know, rank high, increased traffic,

increased visibility, et cetera.

And then after you're engaged, now you can tell them that, Hey, SEO is really

just quality content back links, yeah.

Gain organic visibility, those kind of things.

I wouldn't, if I were you, what I would do is.

For promotion, there's already a ton of inbound search traffic for that.

I do exactly.

There's a ton of inbound.

Oh my God.

Yeah, I do this very simple.

my opinion, well, three campaigns, a search campaign, a DSA campaign,

a dynamic remarketing campaign.

Those three, focusing on phrase and exact in your search campaign, leave

DSA only targeting the landing page that you wanna do in your dynamic at targets.

Make sure you have a display remarking.

That's at least 20% of your overall budget, but bid high and manual

CPC to start and then switch to an automated big strategy.

That makes sense of it.

If you need to.

So another idea inside of the search campaign is if you ran a competitor

campaign, cuz you've got seo.co audience, bloom PSI rank the hath, you can just

go target all the back link builders that you know are already doing this.

I'd try that secondary for sure.

Cuz you have all those people that are just gonna go there and make a

reorder that might actually click on your ad if you're above them and

then you get the high bounce rates.

But my opinion, if I was to take, which is good, a competitor

campaign, the only thing I hate about competitor's campaign is you

always get a horrible quality score.

Cause you're not.

Yeah.

I was just gonna say on the reorder, what if you just made your

site look a lot like their site

We're fos.com.

I dunno a lot.

that's so funny.

here we go.

BMX is a good option.

I sometimes consider this is Google's distraction and making people lazy and

deliberately not choosing the other available strategies that will work at the

lowest cost for a brand with more control.

Like you mentioned about fashion.

PAX is good.

I would still always use a PAX campaign, whether it's as

a secondary low spend option.

cuz, here's something that you're gonna see under YouTube channel

soon is if you're measuring PAX.

By how the Roaz is instead of Google, you're missing half the story.

You need to look at your analytics.

Look at that needs to be on a t-shirt real quick.

Say it again.

If you're measuring P PAX by the Roaz instead of Google,

you're missing half the story.

Yeah.

If you're measuring PAX by the Roaz in, in your Google ads account and you're missing

half the story, and here's the reason why, and everyone, I think here would agree.

PAX is heavy YouTube, GSP display discover it is there's a lot of traffic out there.

That's why when you see tens of thousands of clicks and millions of impressions and.

Your conversion rate sucks is just because you're doing a lot of out by marketing.

Anyone that's that has done Google ads for a long time, knows that if you didn't run

a brand, you didn't run a search campaign.

You didn't run , a marketing campaign and you did heavy YouTube and display.

You're gonna see your organic, and your direct analytics rise.

You're not gonna give all of that attribution to those channels.

Anybody that runs YouTube here, on in Google ads knows that your YouTube is

doing better than what your YouTube says.

It's it happens every single time because they don't click on a YouTube and.

If your brand, campaign's not maxed out, they're coming into other channels

because it's a non click based conversion that happened that never interacted

on a click basis to Google ads.

So what happens is when you look at your analytics, anybody that's running PAX

right now, I challenge you to do this.

How in your analytics look at the date range of when your Google ads performance

max campaign started to yesterday, compare that to the previous period.

And if nothing else has changed drastically in your company, look

at your organic and your direct and your referral along with your.

then your pay search, your C pacer sometimes go up a little bit, but then

direct went up by 40 organic went up by 72% email signups went up, even

if your emails have less open rate, you have a better conversion rate.

Look at everything because PAX is running display, YouTube, GSP, and discovery.

They are doing heavy outbound just because you didn't click on one of the six YouTube

ads does not mean that you didn't come back to the site or come to the site

directly, organically and purchase.

So look at everything.

And understand that PAX.

Yes, it's automated, but from the outbound campaigns, you're

not gonna beat 'em manually.

You won't my automated videos inside of PAX, get a 50 to 60% view rate.

When I did it myself, I got 38.

I still beat the average, but they doubled mine.

So just know that you're getting more than what you're seeing and the same

way that if you run a heavy YouTube, a you're not just gonna be like,

well, YouTube says it looks bad.

Well, when you're director organic blow through the roof, you're like,

well, duh, of course it came from YouTube but you're not applying.

Performance max, for some reason why not?

It's still happening.

What I heard John say was you will never win it's scary.

John Rolo, our bidding strategy names misleading.

For example, if I have a campaign that is max conversions and it gets 20 conversions

and I switch the campaign to target roll eyes and get 25 at the same budget.

How was the max conversion campaign, maximizing conversions, not trying to get

philosophical, just like to hear Google.

How about this?

And this might be fun.

let's talk about the same exact scenario in three months.

If you didn't change, my opinion would be you would go from 20

to 25 to 21 to 18 to 12 to nine.

Your ROS gonna look fantastic.

Your CPA's gonna get there, but the volume is going to start to DEC.

it will you, what you've done is saying, Hey, Google, you

already know these audiences.

Now only focus on those audiences, but pay less per click because you

know that they're going to convert.

So you're only showing up when you know, they convert.

Why don't you spend $10, three times I gotta spend six bucks once onco.

What happens when you drop your CPCs?

You get more clicks.

What happens when you get more clicks on really audiences that

you're going after you get more sales that starts to decay over time.

So it's taking less clicks at lower CPCs, and that's the reason why you'll

get more for your daily ad spend.

Arms of Andies would YouTube videos also work well for fashion brands?

Yes.

Here's the thing yes.

In real life.

Horrible, on Google.

, actually I have a good use case here.

Can I share my screen here?

I think I can, I have too many tab.

Okay.

You sounded very Midwestern just then.

Oh my goodness.

Look at all my tap theory.

so tell me when you all see this.

Cause I can't see at.

Okay.

So here's the last 14 days on just YouTube.

And here's, what's funny is inside the YouTube ads, my YouTube top of

funnel, I spent 14 grand to make 7,300.

That is a terrible row as really, really horrible at, at 0.52, man, that stinks.

This is with click and views though.

If I went with what Google said that I made.

That same exact scenario, just not counting the people that saw the YouTube

ad and came back directly or organically, and did not click on that YouTube ad.

It looks much, much, much worse then, so here's what you'll see.

Now that same exact scenario says, okay, so you spent 14 grand to make 600 bucks.

This is what Google's gonna tell you.

We spend 14 grand to make $600 a 0.05 Roaz man.

That is terrible.

So 0.05 bad, right?

But a.

Point five, two.

Okay.

Well that's 10 times better than what I thought was actually happening.

Now, this isn't in by any means good.

Like I'm not focusing on Roe as positive YouTube.

No, it's just the Delta between the two.

Right.

But now if you look at less like seven days,

it's still holding.

So if I can say, are you happy with gaining half the Aspen back

directly on a YouTube video?

Yeah, I'm okay with that.

I'll make sure that I mitigate any sort of loss.

Actually, by the way, this is really important to know this is 6,900 spent

and $3,500 of just first time users.

I mean, are thousand on returning users.

Mm.

So this is five zero on brand new customers.

I have a hundred dollars cost of acquiring a new customer solely on YouTube.

And if you've got a solid LTV, I'll pay that all day every day.

Exactly.

Now, if you said, well, what does Google say?

My cost of acquiring new customer is.

Then you look at, well, if you're an agency and your client comes to

you and says, holy crap, you know, cost, I cannot afford to spend

$868 cost of acquiring new customer.

Well, no, no, no.

That's what Google says.

But if you count the people that saw the ad and then came to our website

after seeing it six times, yeah.

It's a hundred bucks.

So when you look at, will YouTube work according to Google?

No.

In real life.

Yes.

That's so funny.

It's the same thing that happens in PAX though, too.

Just you have to understand.

Mike Griffin, is there a way to upper cost per funnel steps in the columns

is inside the Google ads interface.

I think it's like trying to say is it cost me X amount for top funnel X

amount for middle X amount per bottom.

Is there a way to upper.

I see Mike still I've been running PAX campaign if you did day of 16.

Mike, can you clarify, that question?

And then we'll come back to you.

Mm-hmm and in the meantime we have John, Rolo interesting about PAX scaling.

Well for you guys, maybe the problem for me was what I had.

Was that I had made other changes to the campaign, like bid strategy change

around the same time as race budgets.

Yeah.

If you change bidding strategy and performance, max you'll

kill the campaign for two weeks.

I have one really high performing really high spending

account that I cannot use now.

New customer acquisition increases, cuz it's not a value based bidding strategy.

I'm not using a V B I'm using maximize conversions, but I'm stuck.

I spend $20,000 a day and if I change it over, I can't tell the client, Hey,

just hemorrhage cash for two weeks.

They, they will freak.

I'm stuck.

I'm trapped.

Juan Korea does changing a conversion goal.

Put Google back in a learning mode in a maximized conversion campaign.

Yes.

Yeah.

Changing a conversion goal.

Not every time.

Very frequently though.

Juan Gimi.

Hey guys, how do you approach max campaigns for e-commerce that don't have

a proper category in the Google taxonomy.

For example, I'm running ads for a 3d printing resins manufacturing and.

You're still gonna have to kind of contend with the fact that

Google will just not have that.

It's not the end of the world, but what I would do is really

focus on your fee quality.

So make sure your titles, your descriptions.

Everything that can be supportive on that page, your site.

and when I say tile description is your site tight, your product title, under

product descriptions, but also your page title, your page descriptions,

your H one through H six tags, your schema markup your all damage tags.

Make sure Google really knows exactly what's on that page, cuz

that's gonna leverage what I can't leverage inside of the categories.

Mike Griffin, I've been running a PAX campaign at $50 a day for about six weeks.

Now it's at five X row as the target is three X.

Should I scale it now?

And if so, how do you recommend I.

If you're doing $50 a day, six weeks and you're getting five and

the is three, I need to clarify.

One thing are you using a target row as of three X and getting a five or

you want three and you're getting five.

, is there an actual target that says three or you just.

That's what you're hoping for.

Please clarify that.

Cause that's actually gonna change my answer I actually prefer that nothing.

This comes from a Facebook user Koran per you guys deserve to

have a superhero movie PAX.

Xmen that's so funny.

I'd be rogue.

I have the hair, you know, what I thought was really funny

is who's the guy in the, wh.

PMX only charges us for clicks.

Yes, wait, hold on.

If PX is running YouTube.

Then you can be charged per view.

It's interesting.

My clicks, have never not started at the time of my view

and I get a cost per engagement.

But I get clicks at the same time.

So actually to backtrack, I don't know, I've never had a view come in

without a click at the same time period.

Interesting channels.

Interesting.

Mike Griffin says, sorry.

I meant upend.

Auto correct is going crazy.

So I'm gonna go back to Mike's original comment, pull it up and we will

find, and replace is going Marvel.

Is there a way to upend cost per funnel steps into columns

inside the Google ads interface?

I have an idea which would be secondary conversion actions with conversion value.

you have secondary conversion actions at every stage of the funnel and you

have a conversion value, then you can segment by conversion action and

give yourself a funnel effectively.

So you counted as a secondary conversion action, then use cost of all conversions.

Just prove all conversions.

Now you're gonna, it's hard for you to say costumes, right?

It's SN in you you're a hundred percent, right?

You got it, the only thing is when you use that method, that

both costume and I thought of.

When you use our trick.

I, I was got here.

What's going on?

Oh yeah.

I'm like, you have to, it's actually not gonna give you a cost per

conversion, the side of it, what you're gonna have to stand with the

fact that you had a group of ads that developed a group of conversions.

And if you had to say, well, if I spend a hundred dollars and got a

contact form, a sign up and a call.

It's gonna say $33 and 33 cents each.

So you're actually not going to be able to say, did I have X going to

this individual conversion action only?

it just that's what it was divided now.

However, if you did have these funnel steps, individual campaigns, then yes.

Then you can say, Hey, this is going to this landing page, only

tracking this conversion action.

And then the people that converted there go into a list.

And then my next campaign's only targeting that list to pushing

through the next step then.

Yeah.

You just take your CPA by campaign.

Sean Gigi for tofu, YouTube campaign.

Do you, what is it?

I see the smirk you're like, all right, Jen.

I got you.

for tofu, YouTube campaigns.

Do you guys use CPA, CCPM or CCP?

CPA.

The reason why, and it's probably a bad reason for tofu., with purchase intent.

So what I like to do is if I can introduce myself with a YouTube ad, that's really.

Close to a person that has highest amount of intent.

It might cost me a few pennies, more like my average cost

reviews, like four to 6 cents.

It might be one to 2 cents if I use CPM.

However, I notice that the quality that comes back inside of either

a, that YouTube campaign or B directly organically happens a lot

less if I go to away from intent.

So what I'm looking for is like, I know Casa doesn't know me, but I

know Casa really wants something.

That's gonna be a targeted cost per acquisition because I know cost's

going to convert hopefully with me.

So I'll have to do is just say, Hey, I know that you have a need.

You've seen my product.

I was like, well, crap.

That's exactly what I've been looking for.

That's what I'm hoping it catalyzes.

So, Mike came back and clarified.

He said a three is just our internal target for profitability.

Got it.

Then I would actually start to scale, $10 per day per.

So 50 next week, do $60 a day next week, do $70 a day.

Whatever your time lag is, don't look in that window.

So if you have a seven day time lag on day eight, look at day one, just remember

that one, Korea, I run an experiment and after turning off the experiment, my

conversion rate has dropped like crazy.

Any ideas?

Why?

Honestly, my opinion, this is the third time this has happened.

No joke this week.

And I think we have another gentleman, that might be watching, I won't

say his name or anything like that, but there was an experiment that

goes, Hey, I'm gonna run experiment.

And this was an experiment actually on a landing page experiment.

Like I could think of like 27 reasons why this isn't gonna work well.

And I'm like, but let's try, cuz let's see what happens.

And it cut his, his sales by like 70%, because we ran on like an

AB test on a page and said, Hey, this page actually worked better.

Well, when we stuck that page, Google, I was just like, okay, well that best

selling product is not my product anymore.

Everything changed.

So depending upon what the experiment was, and if you're running an experiment

inside of Google ads, you should have the, experiment AB test results

like experiment a was X experiment.

B was Y.

Now here's my problem with everything that has to do with ever AB test or experiment

in existence is no one can tell me.

Okay.

When I ran this experiment, I had 80% of the users start into

hear that I've already been warmed up for the last 14 days.

Cool.

Then nothing matters anymore.

Warm up traffic, then change the game and then change it back and say what happened.

if you're looking at timelines of 21 days, if you're looking at seven business to

a sale, if you're looking at, I'm also running U uh, you know, Facebook and

Instagram and TikTok, LinkedIn, I can tell you that no one is gonna run an AB test.

So you're taking a 21 step funnel.

Making a small change on step 17 and be like, everything's perfect now.

It's that?

Doesn't, that's not how the world works.

So I don't use experiments ever.

for that reason I need consistency and I need to change.

I need my changes.

Deliberate.

From when I know I started marketing to a specific person to when I know

they should convert and then track that along a, longit almost like a

Gantt chart, like a longitudinal study.

so I'm anti everything of testing because we're taking like old school,

single one click to one squeeze page to one conversion thought

process, and then trying to make that Omni channel not gonna work.

Yeah.

You can only test something if you can control all the variables involved

and then you can test a variable thing is a split test anymore.

Exactly.

Chris rains.

Have you seen PAX work with video assets?

That aren't necessarily the typical YouTube pre-roll like

super folks on the first five seconds, hand waving and all that.

Have you seen PAX work with yeah what's funny is I have, share my screen actually.

but if you're asking if I've seen it, yes.

KA, can you tell me when everyone can see this?

I forgot.

I have to enable it.

Okay.

Can you see my screen?

Yep.

Looking at it.

So I got a 54% view rate.

I get 44,000 views in this YouTube campaign.

It's working really well and I'm getting great engagement,

average view rate on YouTube.

If I remember correctly is 31.9%.

For YouTube is 30 to 30, 31 0.9%.

So what this means is that my 31.9% I'm getting a 54.81.

These are little automated video, this is Google's driven videos.

What I found is that it's not necessarily the video, it's the audience.

So the combinations of my winning assets, these are the ones that you'll see are

like those, little automated videos.

Cause my asset group, actually, I don't have videos.

Each one of my asset group will go.

You won't see like five videos.

I have no videos in this at all.

What I found is that when I've launched PAX the, the YouTube.

Campaigns, if they're going to the proper audience and this

is probably going against every guru that's ever said anything.

So I'm probably the person in the wrong a quality product to a person that's

interested in that quality product.

It matters more than hand waving in the first five seconds.

So targeting . So your targeting is 90% of the battle.

Your messaging's.

That's my opinion.

And that's how I've been running these things for years.

So I find that if an automated, stupid little video with, it sounds

like a kid slammed the hand on the keyboards, like little PowerPoint

presentations, I'm doubling people's view is that mean that my audience

just loves PowerPoint presentations?

No, it means those are interested in those products.

That's my opinion.

Yeah that's such a great point.

People aren't lemings stop treating people like they're stupid.

You show 'em something they're interested in.

They'll be interested in.

If you don't, it's not to say that you can't improve like engagement rate or

whatever, but just that's not the thing.

Yeah.

It's not you didn't take a crap audience with an awesome video and

then just make everyone want board shorts that day doesn't happen.

Yeah.

Arms of Andes for the band brand.

You mentioned, do you just run PAX school by itself in that case, or do you also

recommend running it with other mediums?

Like Facebook.

No, I recommend running it, with Facebook as well.

Now this particular campaign has just nothing but pure cold traffic.

My brand campaign has spent like a hundred bucks, make 16 grand, a week.

The brand is amazing, but the cold traffic search campaigns are very particular.

So I'm not gonna say the brand and not gonna say the band name, but for example,

if you had something let's say kiss.

and it says, kiss, blazer, kiss, apparel, kiss, shorts, kiss shirts.

It's like I'm winning everywhere.

A cuz I'm probably only one of the people that's actually doing well

at Google ads, marketing of that brand of any of our competitors.

But if you're like, is there a person that makes like a kiss tongue or

a kiss like tongue, with a tie of t-shirt and it's like, yes.

And we have three of 'em you're like, perfect.

Like I'm winning so well because we've found a niche that works

well now with fashion brands, if you're just like Sundre.

I think you're honestly gonna have better luck on Facebook.

That's just my opinion.

It's hard because unless you have like a ton of people that are like, there's

just no one that sells sundresses, I'm in that position cuz no one else sells

the type of band apparel that he does.

It's upscales to an older demographic that has the ad that

has the money to buy these nice.

Products because that band was famous in the eighties.

So it's like, yeah.

Are you interested in this awesome rock band that is legendary and are now a 55

year old professional that wants a blazer with a small little logo right here.

That's very taste on the collar.

That's my buyer.

So the niche works there, but if you're running non niche I honestly

think that you might have better luck on Facebook and Instagram.

not to say it can't be done, but you're using.

Possibly one of the longest sales cycles and most expensive

tools to build that LTV.

So be prepared to blow, a million bucks year one to build that following

on Google, to build that algorithm on Google, to find those people.

It's that competitive.

John Rolo.

Have you guys been doing ads for any brick and mortars lately?

Have you still been running local?

Are you planning on transitioning to PAX?

I'm holding that as long as I can.

Local is amazing.

I love local for brick and mortar.

It is so good.

I still say that a local campaign combined with broad match.

Search campaign local is the bees knees for brick and mortar, but don't

underestimate the halo effect that local has, when you're found everywhere

on maps and YouTube and discovery and search all for your GMB in a small little

profile, like that's costing you sub 20 cents per click, it's powerful and

you can then track when they show up.

It's fine.

I'll do one now.

I'm just gonna take a small snapshot.

Cause I don't wanna give away, the client what's up while you're doing that.

I'm gonna shout out our new members.

Yeah.

John Korea just joined, , Juan Creek.

Juan Jo.

Chris rains, Dix.

Enormous.

I know it's not, Avan sorry, VA.

all I him anyway.

Cause it's something he would do.

I know you gave him the idea didn't you.

All right.

, I'm gonna pull up, , let's do this here

and.

Okay.

I'm almost done everyone.

I promise.

Give me just one moment.

It's gonna be worth it.

That was the worst line in the Expendables is when Jason sta and

throws the girl on the back of the bike after beating up all her boyfriends.

And he goes, you should have waited for me.

I was worth it.

I was like, what?

Who wrote this?

The writer probably like, that's the wrong scene?

You said the wrong part.

You said her lines.

so you're gonna see a name here.

That's okay.

But this is a local campaign.

This is like I'm only spending $25 a day.

This is the last 30 days I spend $536.

the I'm using all conversions, cause I don't wanna count all of these as

conversions cause there's a bunch of local actions, but for 536 bucks, I got.

, 21 phone calls, 69 people that click driving directions, 40 people that viewed

the menu from Google, my business of their restaurant, 15 orders through the

Google, my business order through Google.

Now 142 people that did some other action.

I can't tell exactly what that is.

26 people clicked on it, went to the website $316 placed in order

from the website's order through our delivery, not the Google web business and

then 1,580 people showed up for 536 bucks.

same thing with this other company, $434.

They had 31 phone calls, 33 people driving directions.

, 13 orders online, 924 website orders and a thousand people show up.

So if you can say, Hey, what campaign can I spend?

Like 500 bucks and just get that does exist.

They're amazing.

They're really, really amazing.

Now this is restaurants, so it works really well, but, you spend a thousand

bucks a month and that's sometimes worth 20 grand on a search campaign.

Honestly, Dave foal, Hey Dave.

Hey Dave, John.

I'm running a very expensive campaign that is very high CPC goals hiding 50%

of the clicks on me in search terms.

Is there any way to get that info?

Not really, I've been running into the same issue.

What about that thing Michael Madeline did with the Google analytics?

Yeah.

That one pulled in the search keyword didn't fault the search term..

And it wasn't a ton either, but he was able to weasel out

like another 10% or something.

Yeah.

I don't know well enough to recreate when he showed us that.

Oh, I've got a video on it, somewhere in YouTube, Dave,

if you wanna go track it down.

Perfect.

But honestly, there's, there's really not.

Here's what I would actually make a recommendation for though, is if that is

happening and you have some, not a warm welcome for me, he says, yeah, love Dave.

You're wanting it's a risk.

I've tried it twice this last week with high rewards though.

Take all of exact match , search keywords, and then turn them broad.

What I found is that Google has matches that are so far and widely different

than what I thought was gonna show up.

That they hit it from the search terms because they weren't relevant

at all, but people were converting on it., well, that's interesting.

Google knows who these people are and better than I do.

So I took all of the campaigns.

I duplicated them with the different match types.

So I still kept mine.

I didn't just change.

'em like where it says, Hey, would change match types.

And it's like, would you like to keep the original ones hit?

Yes.

Great new ones.

What I found is that the keywords I was going after in the search

terms that I was actually getting were, they were close, but nowhere

in phrase, in exact match, close.

So then I started to see a lot more a conversions, cheaper CPCs,

higher volume of conversions, but D I was like, oh, these are so far.

And why I'm gonna leave this broad because no two search terms are the

same, but I'm capturing a lot more.

If you wanna run on the test, you can, it was dangerous.

It was a 15 mile raise for a medical center about a procedure.

And I thought that procedure name was gonna be good, but Nope, I was wrong.

It was weird, but it worked.

We got 10 minutes left.

You wanna do rapid fire.

We're always on rapid fire.

Nelson PAX campaign target 300% row eyes is just under a 276% rows.

After one month, Google wants more money for budget.

It's testing my RO as intent.

Yes.

I honestly would just hang tight there, for at least another 30 days, if you can.

I've increased , ad spend on Google when it says limited by budget and

then it didn't spend the budget.

And then I turned off thet row as, too early.

And then I shot myself phone to redo all over.

My opinion is if you've are running one month and you

already have a target row, as on.

Hang tight for another month, then turn it off.

If you're spending the same amount of budget that you're trying to,

like, you're trying to spend $300 and you're spending $300, keep that on.

And then if you, then what I would do is start to scale after that.

But I wouldn't scale with TRO as on, I would actually see, is it holding tight?

Which means, Hey, there's a lot more traffic here than what he could have had.

So by removing thet rows, a lot of times it just would start to test

audience that it doesn't think is gonna convert, but then they convert and all

of a sudden you actually start to see better performance without a T row eyes.

John Rolo just for clarification, John, when you do scale a PAX campaign

seasonally, are you doing it all at once or over the course of days and weeks?

Would it screw things up to double or triple the budget?

In one day I usually start to scale up pretty aggressively three weeks before

I plan before I expect to see the scale.

So if it's like, Hey, we're January one, starting February one.

We're gonna see a good lift.

Okay.

So January one's gonna be thousand hours a.

January.

Seventh's gonna be $2,000 that week, then $3,000 a week and

then $4,000 a week afterwards.

So as soon as February one hits at $4,000, but I'm in warming up the traffic.

So I should start to see those conversions happen quicker in the beginning.

Well, in Zomi for lead gen with PAX, what's the point of separating

asset groups by type of signal.

If I don't have any way to know which asset group is working.

It goes on to say with e-com you can look at the listing groups where there's

nothing for lead gen, yet that you can use to identify best performers.

You really don't.

I actually would separate 'em about by campaign, not by asset group for lead gen.

but if you wanted to put a bunch of asset groups together, what you can do is go in

your search categories, click on the first search category that had a most amount

of sales click on like where it says 14 asset groups click on 14 asset groups.

And it'll tell you this asset group delivered you 12 conversions,

then two, and then one.

And you can actually see the best asset group that delivered you.

The most amount of conversions in lead generation.

Now that's only for DSA it sometimes changes too quickly.

Juan Korea, best way to upgrade a landing page for an ad group without killing it.

Or am I gonna have to pull a will Smith with a dog?

And I am legend.

He kills the dog.

If you have a spoiler of the heart., that was a great one.

Best way to upgrade a landing page for an ad group, for an

ad group or for asset group.

If it's for ad group, you're good to go.

If it's asset group.

No.

Upgrade a landing page.

What happens is Google is taking that page that it knows supposed

to say, and it's using it to learn.

So if you change that landing page, sometimes happens in an AB test.

It says, well, the title used to be this, the description used to be this.

It used to have this image image used to have the video and used.

So this is a new page.

Okay.

Well, I gotta find new traffic.

It's like, I just threw out the whole, the people I've been warming up.

So if it's for a manual CPC and a search campaign, you can do whatever you want.

But if you're using heavy algorithmic learning and watching

of a page and then changing.

Dont.

my opinion would be to make small, minor modifications very slowly, and

make sure you're not obstructing what the core source view of that page is.

So make sure your, your titles, your descriptions, H 1 36 I'll tag

all that SEO stuff stays the same.

If you wanna make some modifications, cuz the code is what's Google watch,

Google's watching and that delivers you.

The good traffic.

Sean Gigi, we're using a cool YouTube campaign funnel, tofu, C P YouTube

viewers, max conversion website, visitor T CPA, two LTB T CPA, north beam.

Show's great results.

Have we tried this?

So tofu cost top of the funnel cost of two YouTube viewers maximize conversions,

two website visitors, target, CPA to LTB my question is . Are you only

counting the website visitors that were from clicks from YouTube viewers?

My only thing in my mind would be if you're using website visitors

with T CPA, is there remarketing happening there from other channels?

. Mike Griffin, any idea how affiliate sites that drive revenue from Amazon affiliates,

like best reviews do attribution since they can't track affiliate

sales on Amazon via Google ads tag.

And you dunno how affiliate sites that drive revenue from?

I think they're all MLM scams, to be honest with you, man.

So they're probably using amazon attribution, beta.

So Amazon attribution beta allows you to create a URL that you use in your ads.

And then Amazon will say, yeah, that YouTube ad that you drove using that

link resulted in X amount of sales.

Dave says, damn not a warm welcome for me, Dave.

I thought you could take a ribbing that's when you know

we're friends, Dave says mine never shows how many people showed up.

And is there a trick to that?

I thought.

It's based on their phone telling here they are.

Yeah.

So you have to have a minimum viable amount of number of people who

visit that you cannot see in, that you cannot equate to in real life.

So if you had like seven people show up, Google's not gonna say seven because

you're like, oh, well, those, those seven people, we violated the privacy they

won't tell me what the minimum amount is.

I think it's somewhere around, once you get over 150 to 200 people

that show up in a one month time period, then it starts to count.

Cause it's like, okay, now you can't tell who showed up.

Went.

If even if you said by.

So as a minimum number, I don't know what that is.

They won't tell us Dix enormous.

I have started a performance max campaign it's been running for a

month inside the listing groups.

I can see two products doing really well.

Should I build out another campaign, just using those products in the

listing group, in the new campaign and just use, copy around those two

products or would a better idea be build out standard shopping campaign,

targeting those products and a DSA using landing page on those products as the.

would do a DSA.

Anytime that they add different performance, anytime you overlap the

products and performance, max, they, the natural ebb and flow of traffic that is

gonna convert just by chance, happens to land on whatever campaign that had

the most amount of ad spend that day.

So it's really hard to funnel in performance max, because it's

like three pit bulls that are really hungry for something.

And then you put one snack down, whoever makes their first wins.

There's no reason.

So even if the name is drawn on the side, like this is Rocky.

He's not Rocky, not gonna get it.

It's always just dependent upon which campaign.

So I would actually build into it with a DSA and standard shopping campaign,

because what that's gonna do is start to have your performance max campaign start

to go and find those people as well, because it sees that traffic coming in.

Ryan Huron saying that we missed his question, Ryan, I don't have

your question in my restream thread.

I wonder if it's on YouTube.

, Ryan says, I sent a question earlier about some branded campaign pains.

Not sure if you have time to answer it.

I have a call starting in a minute.

Sorry buddy.

If you can customer, if you do find it, email it to me cuz I'll fire it

off or I'll make a video about it.

Ryan, actually, I'm looking at the YouTube chat too.

Ryan, do me a favor.

Do control F on YouTube.

Just so you don't think we're making, ignoring you.

All I see is welcome back guys.

PSM a real life, Florida, man.

And then you saying, I sent in a question earlier.

Yeah.

Sorry if I didn't see it.

but one thing to Sean gig.

Says all website visitors from everywhere.

Sean, one thing that I would dive into is that you kind of have a

funnel warming up some traffic, and then you're doing a blanket

remarketing campaign for all channels.

So click and views on nor beam are gonna look really good, It

may not be from those original people that you're going after.

There's definitely could be overlap, but my opinion would be, you might

have just said like, Hey, we'll this warm up and then there's a

bunch of people in there that repeat purchase also, possibly from Facebook

and, and anywhere else in organic.

I don't know my opinion would just be examine that funnel for holes.