Artwork for podcast Raising The Standard
Reclaiming Masculinity with Jake Hamilton
Episode 8024th January 2023 • Raising The Standard • Josh Khachadourian
00:00:00 01:06:42

Share Episode

Shownotes

Join us for an incredible conversation with Jake Hamilton, and take a deep dive into Jake’s current mission to reclaim masculinity by leading men through the deep work required to see complete healing and step into their God-given identity.

In this episode we get into:

Jakes backstory: 2 mins

Calling and mission 7 mins

Living in mystery and tension 17 mins

Mother and Father wounds 19 mins 

3rd way thinking 24 mins

Fatherhood 28 mins 

Initiation ceremonies 44 mins

Daily habits and practices 59 mins

Jake Hamilton has been in active full-time ministry for over two decades. He has been a creative entrepreneur, and a global worship leader as a part of Jesus Culture Music. He is a dynamic preacher and communicator. As a singer-songwriter, his songs have been sung around the world.

He is currently leading a men's movement called The Fight, gathering men to make an agreement with their story and get acquainted with death as they learn what it means to walk in biblical manhood as modeled by Jesus Christ.

Connect with Jake here:

http://www.jakehamiltonmusic.com

Thisisthefight.com

Fightweekend.org

JOIN THE FREE EMAIL CHALLENGE

Unlock The Power Of Your Full Potential with THE UNFAIR ADVANTAGE CHALLENGE: This is a FREE 11-day email training that will equip you with the tools, mindset, and strategy to BE THE MAN God created YOU to BE. Learn to Access His Presence, Purpose, Power and Promotion.

https://www.standard59.com/unfairadvantage

Own THE STANDARD Today, Get the breakout Bestseller THE STANDARD, Discovering Jesus as The Standard for Masculinity on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Standard-Discovering-Jesus-Masculinity/dp/1734549300/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8 

Listen to THE STANDARD on Audible: https://www.audible.com/pd/B095J62CW2/?source_code=AUDFPWS0223189MWT-BK-ACX0-259076&ref=acx_bty_BK_ACX0_259076_rh_us


Follow Josh on Social Media

https://www.instagram.com/kingdomathlete/ 

https://www.tiktok.com/@kingdom_athlete

https://www.facebook.com/kingdomathlete 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7YKo7liiUJ1jW6eCLVkJlQ

Transcripts

0:00

What if we were actually supposed to die with Christ

0:02

what if we were actually supposed to get another empty tomb and

0:05

lay down with him and let him resurrect us because

0:08

the hard part is my sin has been covered but my

0:11

story is still real so I don't have to pay the

0:14

cost of the repercussions of my life but it is

0:17

still my life

0:35

All right welcome to another episode of raising the standard this

0:38

is leader ship mindset and development for ambitious Christian men

0:42

if that's you you're in the right place and guys

0:44

we have an awesome episode lined up for you I've

0:47

been really excited about this one because there's a guy

0:49

that I met a few years ago you probably know him

0:52

I'm about to introduce him to you and I've been

0:55

following him and he's really got a mission that he's

0:57

on right now about masculinity and before we jump right

1:01

into that topic I wanna introduce you to him get a

1:04

little bit of his background and just see some of

1:06

the commonalities that he has with us because he's not

1:09

only a musician he's also an entrepreneur and he's also on

1:13

a mission to reclaim and restore masculinity and call you

1:18

and me higher into the Position that God created us

1:22

and called us to occupy so without further ado I

1:25

am going to introduce my very special guest this week

1:28

I got Mr. Jake Hamilton Jake how are you doing

1:32

man good thank you so much for having me it's a

1:34

pleasure to be here man I'm glad we could finally do

1:36

this yeah man I've been looking forward to a site to have

1:39

this conversation conversation with you AJ just for our listeners for

1:44

those that don't know you if you could just give

1:47

us a little bit of your background obviously you've been

1:50

in ministry for a long time you are a musician you

1:52

have multiple records out I was listening to your latest

1:55

single today just kind of getting a zone for this

1:57

one so if you could just kind of walk us

1:59

through a little bit for the guys that know you

2:01

and the guys that don't know you just hear your

2:04

music background and your ministry background as we set the

2:06

stage for the conversation where we're going to get into Yeah basically

2:11

we planning to church when we were about 19 by

2:15

accident I came back to the church by $50 guitar when

2:18

I was 18 years old worked with the camp I work

2:21

at a camp with inner-city kids in like Compton Long Beach

2:25

like that whole area in LA that's where were we

2:27

were originally from so we were down there working with

2:30

kids from our city on with the Salvation Army camp like I said and

2:33

I would lead worship there because the worship leader left

2:35

in the middle of the night one night and they

2:38

left a note that said this place sucks and so

2:40

they're like who else owns a guitar they're like oh

2:42

Jake doesn't he's loud and obnoxious so we'll just you lead

2:46

worship a new two cords and so I had to

2:48

make up songs on the spot for kids and that's

2:51

how I started songwriting that's how I started leading worship

2:54

and when we came back I interned at our Baptist

2:57

church which we did for a couple years before we

3:00

ended up planting a church of young people which is

3:02

like an emergent church church for church model years and

3:05

years ago some might remember in so we had a

3:08

church of 60 that likes 6 00 over like for

3:11

five months I mean it was like the craziest thing

3:13

and we were doing a ton of art because I

3:16

was actually interviewing for Disney at the times I thought that

3:19

was what I was going to do I thought I was going

3:20

to go you know be an animator and be sort

3:23

of a creative brainstorm or like they have imagine years

3:27

which what they call them there was like that's what I want

3:28

to be so that's what I was targeting I used

3:31

all that in the church for about eight years that's

3:33

where I met my wife wrote a ton of songs

3:36

and then got fired from the church we planted cause

3:38

we met the Holy Spirit which was delightful so we met

3:41

holy spirit because my daughter was diagnosed with cerebral palsy and

3:45

so I either realize like I have an a crossroads

3:47

with God like either he really sucks or there's some

3:50

things I don't know about them and so I was

3:51

like well let's just go with her some things I

3:53

don't know about him that took me on a journey

3:55

to Kansas City international House of prayer and Bethel Church in

3:58

Redding California where we currently live Right now and that

4:03

sort of gave us the space to explore gotten a

4:05

brand new way and when we were let go of

4:08

the church that we planted we end up planting a house of

4:11

prayer we did 2 4 seven prayer for about three

4:13

years that's where I wrote all the songs that got

4:17

recorded with Jesus Culture cause they came in and you know

4:20

said hey we want to put you on a label there really

4:22

isn't a label but would love to have you on

4:24

it and so we were like one of the first

4:26

artist that Jesus Culture had on their label and that was

4:29

a wild ride for four years we did that with

4:32

Jesus Culture traveled all over the place About 2 0 10

4:37

we slowed everything down to basically focus on family I

4:41

was really hard on my marriage in so we had some

4:44

fathers that came in and there was no addiction no

4:47

pornography none of that like extra marital stuff it was

4:50

really just I was a workaholic and because I was

4:52

work a workaholic for Jesus everybody gave me a high five

4:55

instead of telling me to slow down and focus on

4:57

my family and so I finally slowed everything down about

5:01

that time we started like a little bit of a

5:03

label with some friends just to get people recorded I'm always had

5:07

like entrepreneurial stuff going on on the side so I'm just

5:10

trying to empower people every chance I get using every

5:13

resource we have Long story short as our marriage got

5:17

better we started doing stuff for marriages and then ended

5:21

up in a place where we were doing stuff for men because

5:24

we got basically a word that was someone encouraged us

5:27

that said he listen you really want to help marriages

5:29

go get men and I was like all right let's do

5:33

it so the last handful of years as my boys are becoming

5:36

teenagers I was like let's let's figure out how to

5:39

do this in my house and then I'll be figured

5:41

out how to do it in my house with my kids

5:43

we invited eight men and we've been meeting for about

5:45

three years here in my garage and then that led

5:48

to what we now called the fight so it's up

5:50

it's a crazy journey of like over 20 years of

5:54

ministry always having some sort of artistic side hustle as

5:58

well from design work to branding work website all that

6:02

stuff we kind of do a little bit of everything

6:04

but that allows us the flexibility to really focus on

6:07

the type of ministry want to do and where God calls

6:10

us to do without being tied down to a paycheck

6:13

and You know figuring it out traditionally yeah wow there's

6:17

so much there Jake that was an awesome synopsis Five years

6:23

yeah yeah I got it that's that's incredible we can

6:27

we can stay on that for a while you said a

6:29

couple things I can't take in everything there but the first

6:32

thing you said you know like I didn't know that

6:34

was your backstory the way you started doing music it

6:37

was kind of like hey we need a spot you're

6:39

here you got you got instrument let's go I will I

6:43

want to ask you because a lot of our guys are listening and

6:46

I know that we're all exploring this is like what's

6:48

my mission what's my purpose like this these are big

6:50

questions that men wrestle with and what was that journey

6:54

like for you because did you have it in your

6:56

heart that you want to be a musician did you

6:59

feel a call on your life yeah so walk walk

7:01

us to that a little bit cause it's opportunity opens up and then how

7:04

do you decide like this is a no I'm supposed

7:07

to be doing this are you looking for favor like

7:10

I'd like to understand that a little bit it's awesome

7:12

Just FYI it's going to be like I am the

7:15

nontraditional is the nonconformist and most of these world suggest I usually I

7:20

really love language and really hate common language in so

7:23

even a word like calling I'm like we end up

7:25

waiting for this sort of supernatural bolt of lightning to

7:28

hit us and then we go it's my calling it's

7:31

like we'll know just use what's in your hands when

7:33

Moses was called to go to the Israelites he was

7:36

Moses was like why did I stutter and I don't

7:38

have anything he's like what's in your hand is like

7:40

a stick yeah that'll do and it's like for most

7:43

of us we don't even pay attention to the stick

7:45

in our hand we're waiting for the $10 million somebody supposed

7:48

to give us and so I'm like I'm just saw die over

7:51

the word calling personally right now just cause I know

7:54

a bunch of young people to you when I talk to

7:56

men like I'm just waiting for a word from the

7:58

Lord I'm like what in the hell is in your

8:00

hand use that and see happens and that was the

8:03

way it was for me I didn't want to be

8:05

a worship leader I wasn't signed up to I barely at that

8:08

point I don't know anything I mean I felt like

8:11

I can't Sing songs about Jesus I barely know myself and

8:15

they're like go for it buddy and I'm like dude

8:17

that is the way that I think most men actually

8:20

need to get into the thing that they're created to

8:23

do because it's like they're so busy wondering what they

8:25

don't have that they pay so little attention to what

8:28

they do have because what they do have is never

8:31

good enough you know and for me I was like

8:33

I got a guitar and a voice not like there's

8:35

nobody else here so who's gonna do it and like I'll

8:37

do it and I look like an idiot 90 %

8:41

of the time I looked like a moron you know

8:44

I mean but if you're not if you're you're not

8:46

trying to prove anything in your ego is not stopping

8:48

you like I'll run into it let's just see what

8:51

comes out yeah all right so as we follow that like

8:54

was it easy for you did things click together was

8:57

the resistance along the way and what did that like did you

9:00

have feelings of K I don't know if I'm supposed

9:02

to be doing this or was there a time where

9:04

you're like all right like I know I know this is

9:07

what it is Again it's for us it's about following

9:10

the narrative that's in front of you so what is

9:12

in my hands and what story is in front of

9:14

me so what's in my hands this guitar right now what

9:16

I got so and it seems to give me a

9:18

little bit of ability to lead and right now it's with

9:21

kids then I came back and returned for the church they're like

9:24

oh you play guitar why don't you lead some worship

9:26

here cool I learned a few more chords learned a few more

9:29

songs wrote a few songs on my own and just followed

9:32

that narrative where it led at the same time I

9:36

was on the side doing a ton of large scale

9:39

murals for like businesses and schools and I was painting

9:43

banners I mean I'm only 19 years old at the

9:45

time 19 20 still living at my parents house so

9:48

I'm just like you know doing a basic internship at

9:50

a church driving my business which is growing and thriving and

9:54

awesome and I'm just doing being faithful to work with

9:58

what's right in front of me and I dude over

10:00

my career of like worship leading I FaceTime to resist

10:06

I do not sound like a worship leader I don't

10:08

know how many times I can tell you you know what I

10:10

mean weather like Not sure if that's worship you know

10:15

so they're like God Could you sing do you know can you

10:20

sing that nice song we all know that all the

10:22

time so I get invited to someplace and I just want to

10:25

still to this day they'll be like why can you

10:27

play these type of songs and honestly I just now

10:29

I just go now I'm good like I don't need

10:31

to come I'll give you a list of worship leaders

10:33

who do that I just know who I am and

10:36

I'm like the loud rock like I'm not gonna play

10:40

the north my songs aren't like normal fit in your Sunday

10:43

worship set I don't think they're any less worshipful and

10:46

I don't think that they're any less worship music it's

10:49

just for me I'm like I Just don't play I

10:53

just I haven't really played it safe and so when

10:56

you don't play it safe if you don't have the

10:58

heart to be rejected over and over again you keep yourself

11:01

stable you weren't you're just go get a job and

11:04

let somebody be your boss like you're not made for

11:07

entrepreneurship number one I need and I would say there's

11:10

a ton of story work that we could get into

11:12

with your story because at the end of the day

11:15

like you still don't know who you are and you're

11:16

like a 4 5 50 year old man like that's

11:20

a problem like that's a real issue like let's forget

11:23

about the calling for a second who the heck are

11:25

you and if I didn't have that first like I'm

11:27

OK with who I am and I don't care how

11:30

it comes out because I'm not here to impress anyone

11:33

and as long as my heart is clean before God

11:37

and I am serving my house first Everything else will work

11:41

itself out eventually I'm not really worried about it but

11:43

that the journey wasn't as clean as like and then

11:47

and then I did this and then I made this

11:49

maneuver unlike the people I've seen change the planet the

11:53

most effectively just follow the path that was right in

11:56

front of him and didn't question it when everybody else

11:58

did yeah that's awesome well I want to get into

12:01

that journey a little bit I want to see some of

12:03

those highlights in your life and you obviously have had

12:06

I would assume some strong men that came around you

12:08

to give you the sense of identity and that's where

12:11

your missions coming from or I'd like to hear about

12:13

the Beasley got kicked in the balls over and over and

12:15

over again Then I'm gonna I'm gonna be honest with you

12:20

I had a guy had a couple of guys over

12:22

I had at the truth as I had a good

12:24

dad he was one-handed me being a workaholic so he

12:27

did give me that which dad had to be that

12:31

had to be ground out of me by a really amazing

12:33

wife where I'm like oh service to God and it's hard

12:36

as a minister you can work you know hundred hours

12:39

and everyone's like it's for Jesus you know and you're like yeah

12:42

yeah I agree why is my family falling apart then that's

12:45

not working but I had a really great dad who

12:49

was in touch with his emotions all of them including

12:52

anger you know but over the course of my life

12:54

he just was always there you know I mean so

12:57

I had a good man as a dad And I

13:00

had a handful of friends like we were kind of ride

13:04

or die and over the time over the course of

13:07

time at peers but kris Vallotton really is the one who stands

13:10

out as like a dad who showed up and it's

13:13

not like he's consistent in our lives or anything like

13:15

that Chris Melton from Bethel Church he and he just showed

13:18

up at all the right times basically just told me

13:20

I suck as a husband So it was like it

13:24

was like but all the other men I've ever been

13:26

around just massively wounded me and I had to have

13:30

enough guts to just go I'm not gonna I'm gonna

13:32

let it wound me but not mark me and determine

13:35

like bitterness and things like that now not that I

13:37

haven't had my moments but it's very rare that I've

13:40

had like I'm looking for a wise elder I'm looking

13:43

for someone who's a little further ahead that's been the

13:46

radical and I've had a few of those touch points with

13:49

some people in the moment but man I wish I could

13:52

I'm trying to grow up the man who will be

13:54

that to a generation because I didn't have that that's

13:57

my goal I am I was always taught if you're

14:00

looking for something in your life you don't have you're

14:02

probably supposed to become it and so I'm like I've

14:04

never seen this like who's going to hold the space for

14:07

me when I feel like a piece of crap and

14:09

everyone's like you're not really a worship leader yet you're

14:11

doing it in stadiums like what do you do with

14:14

that you know and where are those men that are

14:16

going to hold that with me and go dude keep

14:19

doing it Yeah you doing so it's like it's like the problem

14:24

you saw that's the problem that you feel I'm gonna

14:26

go bring a solution to that because I haven't been

14:28

today absolutely I was like in this space there's no

14:32

man to hold tight to hold value for other men like to

14:37

go no don't do it different that's why we got

14:39

so many and bowing down to you you know there's

14:42

a song that guy you know that I Kings Kaleidoscope he

14:45

has that line he's like he's like I'm just a

14:48

puppet to pastor and I'm like yeah like I'm cool

14:50

pastors I love leadership I love being around healthy leader

14:54

ship I will submit my life to healthy leader ship

14:56

but I'm also not gonna play games when I feel

14:59

like I'm being run over or abused or especially when

15:02

I see it happening to other men I'm like I'm

15:04

not gonna stand for that like where are the men

15:07

we are the most dangerous man on earth with Christ

15:12

in our center filled with the Holy Spirit living in the

15:15

kingdom where we are completely unstoppable we don't need the

15:19

government we don't need to Politics we don't need any

15:21

of the stuff we are the dangerous ones and I'm

15:24

like where are those people where are the men who

15:26

are convincing men of that like you're filled with the

15:29

spirit of the living God you are living in a

15:32

kingdom that's from another age like stop complaining over politics

15:36

man my kings on a throne forever like if we're still

15:39

trying to figure that out dude like no man if that's

15:42

a too small of a game for me and I'm

15:44

like I want to be the guy who shows up

15:46

and goes you go do this thing man you got

15:48

that on your heart go fail 20 times and I'll

15:51

be there when you get back to remind you that

15:53

hurt didn't yeah and I'm a slap you on the

15:55

butt and you're gonna keep going you know and that to me

15:58

that's what I need it with love and tenderness not

16:01

like you suck and I'm trying to take advantage of you

16:03

but dude go hard try something new see what happens

16:07

Have you heard about the unfair advantage challenge guys I

16:11

just released a brand new challenge it's totally free it's

16:15

an email experience you can sign up at the link

16:17

below now back to the episode yeah I love it

16:22

I mean that's the heart of a father like a

16:23

real father that's your cheerleader that your coach that's going

16:27

to encourage you and also correct you and say now

16:29

it's time to sit out let me tell you what

16:30

you just did wrong there too so I love him and you're

16:34

talking my language we're bringing up a few things here so

16:37

like let's just have the culture conversation for a minute

16:40

because we're talking about culture and I think I think

16:42

we're talking about church culture a little bit like how

16:45

are we doing with men right now like what's happening

16:48

what's the current state of men maybe we start big

16:51

culture first Jake like big culture in the world and

16:54

how is that affecting culture in the church cause we we

16:57

have a crisis on our hands and I want to hear

16:59

I wanna hear it from your perspective Yeah I mean

17:02

I think we have a mass the crisis the crisis

17:05

that we have is a disconnection from our deep mysterious

17:10

tension filled reality that we don't want to agree with

17:14

because we become a theory we become a theologically driven information

17:19

driven culture so that's why we have the issue with

17:22

media that's why we have the issue with all this because we don't

17:24

have men who can stand in tension and actually hold it

17:28

well like my whole thing that I tell men all

17:31

the times I'm like men go first that is the

17:34

marker of like a Christian man men go first but

17:38

not in systems and structures men go first in servant

17:42

in servant hood in sacrifice date shoes to show up

17:45

when no other man will show up and they will

17:47

hold the tension for those who cannot yet because they become pillars

17:53

and strengths because they can live in mystery intention and

17:57

we don't do that we live we live in complete

17:59

dualism we are like it's black It's white it's right

18:02

it's wrong it's God it's the devil it's it's too

18:05

much duality light all of us who have lived for

18:08

more than five minutes no that's not real yet when we

18:11

go into a church or we going to culture that's

18:14

what we're experiencing and the reason that the culture is

18:17

experiencing it is because that is what the church is

18:20

teaching the church historically was meant to hold the tension

18:25

and the space that culture itself could not hold that's

18:28

why we had priest that's why we had a monks

18:30

that's why we are desert fathers that's why we had these men who

18:33

lived in the tension men and women but we really as men

18:37

we held that space of tensions so well that it that

18:41

it eradicated fear and gave birth to some ridiculous faith

18:46

but we don't do that anymore we're not meant to

18:48

do that Worried about pornography and all that crap I'm

18:52

not worried about that those are just identity issues that

18:55

are like fruit I don't need to be pulling fruit

18:57

off peoples treats like I'm not that's not what I'm

19:00

here for you remove bad fruit but have bad roots

19:03

you're gonna get bad food again so we gotta deal

19:05

with some of the root issues with the hell I

19:07

am I never had a dad who is there like

19:10

most men never had a fathers name a deep father

19:13

wound what's a father wound a mother and a father

19:16

one or very easily describe mother and mother is supposed to be the

19:19

one who loves you unconditionally even when you suck so

19:22

when you suck mom goes you're amazing you're the greatest

19:25

thing that's ever been a dad is the first one

19:28

in love who chooses you so if you never felt shows

19:31

in or you don't feel preferred or you don't feel

19:34

like you can connect with men that as a father

19:37

and a bit very basic definition Wingo Way deep in

19:40

that stuff but the reality is were carrying those wounds

19:43

and we don't even know where we fit in because

19:45

we never have a dad go your chosen you're safe

19:49

You're good you suck in these areas we're gonna work

19:52

on it don't worry you're still ultimately love I pick

19:55

you and then I'm mom going you're the greatest thing ever

19:58

you're the best you can do no wrong you know

20:01

and if you never got that that's actually more damaging

20:04

than a father one because then you have no value system

20:07

to work from because you don't even know if you

20:09

just are loved in general and now when we do

20:12

that we start working overtime to get picked to get

20:15

preferred to get lunch and we're seeing that in culture so

20:19

my two things are we got duality living all over

20:21

the place cause we don't have a church that knows how

20:23

to hold tension we got rid of the Eucharist and

20:25

put in a pulpit and said my opinion is bigger

20:28

than the blood and body of Jesus Christ and then we

20:31

have on the other side we have this reality of

20:33

mother and father ones that we've never actually worked through

20:36

where I don't know who I am so I can't

20:39

hold tension and I don't know who I am on

20:40

the wonder culture as a whole and the church are

20:44

like totally jacked when raising up men yeah can you

20:47

explain the tension thing a little bit more To make

20:49

sure that the listeners and myself that I fully get

20:51

it in terms of what is the tension between what

20:53

are the two things that and what how is it

20:55

Xpress itself so in your life like there are we

21:00

end up having to put things in boxes right or

21:03

wrong good or bad those things like and it's just

21:05

easier for us all protection stop the problem is if

21:08

we're talking about God if we're going back to the

21:10

church first thing to culture we are talking about an eternal everlasting

21:14

God he breathed everything into being hold it all together

21:18

all the way down to the smallest nano nuclear value

21:22

systems that we don't understand yet and we're pretending on

21:26

Sundays through a few songs and a short sermon that we

21:28

get it now We understand that that is the biggest load

21:34

of junk I have ever heard like you don't get

21:37

it we don't understand God nobody's gonna get to heaven

21:40

I don't care how big your ministry is or how

21:42

many PhD 's you at your no one is going to

21:45

walk up to the man whose flames of his eyes

21:48

are flames of fire with a sword coming out of his

21:50

mouth feet like bronze white hair glowing like the sun

21:55

and he's like that's what I thought that's what I thought

21:58

just like I thought it's like no we're gonna get

22:01

there see him and go dude I had no idea

22:06

so first there's a tension of me and my creator

22:08

pretending like I understand something that is impossible for me

22:12

and my finiteness to understand then on top of that

22:16

how that plays out in my life is I have to

22:20

determine whether or not some thing is God before I

22:22

can do anything with it which is a massive problem

22:26

because I've got kids and young people are sitting around

22:28

doing nothing Literally nothing waiting on a word from the

22:33

Lord when your life was the word from the Lord do you know

22:37

Today that is the word you need it you've been

22:41

born when you could've been born in any time in humanist I just

22:44

heard this sad and I was like blown away by

22:46

over 4 7 00 people over nine generations had to

22:51

exist and survive and meet just for the DNA to get

22:56

into your body for us to be talking regular 4

22:58

7 00 people nine generations and you're not a miracle

23:03

dude You already won the lottery now just do something

23:07

with it don't waste it and that tension is me

23:10

going I'm trying to decide if it's right or wrong

23:13

or if it's the voice of the Lord before I

23:14

do anything and for me I'll tell you practically in

23:18

my life I believe in healing but I have a

23:20

daughter with cerebral palsy so I get two choices I can

23:23

either go well he doesn't heal and then build a

23:27

theology around it or I go he always heels in there must

23:31

be something wrong with me and I spend the rest

23:33

of my life cycling through deliverance ministries and fasting and

23:36

praying for some thing that I fully don't understand but it must

23:39

be my fault so it's not a faith issue or

23:42

this but I always talk to people about is it it's

23:44

magpie theology or magpie understand if you ever seen a

23:48

magpie if you look at a magpie from a distance

23:50

it is two colors it is black and it is

23:53

white The problem with getting up close to a magpie

23:57

is that it's blue as well but you don't see

23:59

it from far away and so we need the reality

24:02

of third way thinking we need a third option thinking

24:06

which is tension and mystery that it is the both and

24:10

the yes and no death and resurrection in the same

24:14

body in the same person in the same time death

24:17

and resurrection hold in one hand not to answer we like when

24:21

it's Good Friday and Easter But if not it's one experience

24:26

we will death and resurrection in our one hand that

24:30

is the reality of tension and mystery when I can

24:32

embrace the both and and not and feel the conflict

24:37

but embrace it like if I was to work through

24:41

either of our stories or what we do with men

24:43

all the time if we end up going let's go

24:45

back to your eight year old self OK you were

24:47

abused OK so now with the church that is go let's either get rid

24:52

of that so that you're a new creation in Christ

24:55

or we have to recognize I'm not supposed to get delivered

24:58

from the eight year old version of me Is actually a

25:01

part of who I am and it was bad and

25:04

it was wrong and I need to grieve it so

25:06

that it can be integrated into my life as a part

25:09

of who I am today like it actually made me

25:12

the way I am so I can I'm not saying

25:15

like we we we need to go make excuses for

25:19

our abusers what I'm saying is you can't get rid

25:22

of the fact that it happened to you so what

25:24

are you gonna do either live in the tension of it

25:27

makes me the man I am today or spend the

25:31

rest of your life going I'm not really worth much

25:33

because that happened to me Does that make sense yes

25:37

I totally get it right and I'm watching all these

25:39

men going what do I do with the eight year

25:41

old version of myself that was beat by his mom beat by

25:45

his dad abused in a Bandan what do I do with that

25:49

I'm like you grieve over it right so for me

25:51

it's the beatitudes so if you're if blessed are those who

25:55

mourn for they will be comforted right so the first

25:59

step I have to do intention is grief I have to actually

26:04

learn to grieve and mourn so that the parts of me that

26:07

are yet he'll not yet healed I can actually grieve

26:11

them and experience comforting in that place because if I

26:14

don't get comforted I'll settle for comfort and comfort I

26:17

can buy So comfort I can buy because that's just

26:20

escapism but I'm not getting comfort and I'm just paying for

26:24

comfort and that's it totally different ballgame medication that's my

26:29

medication right yeah so wow this is deep and I

26:33

think what you're explaining here I mean I I look at

26:35

this whole conversation and the work you're doing and what

26:37

you're explaining to me this is real discipleship this is

26:40

deep discipleship which which we don't see a lot right now

26:44

because you have to be super intentional you have to understand it

26:47

and you have to have some men in your life that

26:48

can help you process this because you just don't learn

26:51

this on your own this is talk to you somehow

26:54

and you're coached and instructed through it that's that that's

26:57

the process right now that we would like I said

26:59

earlier we're just trying to raise up those men so

27:01

that we can do that effectively with the next group

27:04

that's coming up right all right so let's let's get into

27:07

this let's talk about I mean I think you've given

27:10

us like pretty much the origin story but if there's

27:12

a missing piece because your story is a whole it's

27:15

all one story of like what made Jake and who

27:18

you are Or it's not and I totally resonate with the

27:21

boxes I talk about that all the time as men

27:23

were very good at building compartments there's my work box

27:27

there's my church box there's this yeah that's that's us up

27:31

for a lot of failure because we can act a certain way

27:33

in one place and then we can totally be another

27:35

person because we just have a different mask that we

27:37

put on for that box absolutely so so tell me

27:41

if there's if there's if you wanna take in a different

27:44

place but I wanna know if we can go right

27:46

into this mission of reclaiming masculinity is there more to

27:51

that I know there's a lot more but is there a

27:53

missing piece that we need to understand of this origin

27:55

story where this mission came from I think you've given

27:58

us a lot of where this mission was born from but I

28:01

want to talk about the mission itself why it's so

28:04

important and why it's something you're focused on right now

28:08

yeah I mean I honestly the way it started was

28:11

my kids were becoming teenagers and I did not know

28:14

how to grow up meant so I just really like ended up

28:17

going like I need to Figure this out because my

28:19

marriage is great so like we spent you know eight

28:23

or nine years just rebuilding our marriage focusing on it

28:27

and having the conversations doing the work and then I end

28:30

up in the spot where I was like OK I've

28:32

got two boys that are turning into 13 at 11

28:35

at the time and I was like I don't know

28:39

what do you do with them and nobody did anything

28:41

with me like I didn't nobody walked me into manhood

28:45

so what what is that crossover look like and that

28:49

lead me on a series of events some supernatural and

28:53

wild and some that are still progressing even today as

28:56

I'm figuring it out with free thinking children that I'm

29:01

not trying to control you know and I and the truth

29:04

is I can give you answers about kids come in

29:06

the middle of it so when people ask me I

29:08

can go hey this where I sock this room good I

29:11

feel like I'm doing affective in this area but in

29:14

all honesty ask me in 20 years you know because

29:17

that part with the kid Kid I don't really know

29:19

because I'm still trying I'm still trying stuff and I'm

29:22

just try to be faithful and what's in my hands but that

29:24

was that was the origin that led me to going

29:27

well if I'm a do it for my kids like

29:29

who's gonna do this with me well let's just put

29:31

a bunch of dysfunctional men are my garage and let's

29:34

see how this works out I love it and how

29:38

is it working out so far it's beautiful like for

29:41

us that we we use a couple things while I'll

29:44

give you the short version the short version is that

29:46

we in the midst of processing what I was looking

29:50

for for my wife and I we ended up coming

29:54

across something called the Allender theory by Danny Allender out of yes

29:59

I see it in Seattle Theological school or Seattle school

30:04

of theology something like that but Dan Allender he's mentioned

30:07

a ton of books I mean every book on sort

30:10

of Christian psychology he's a dude like he wrote board

30:13

love to be told God love sacs like there's he's

30:18

done a ton of stuff that's amazing amazing amazing but

30:22

I think we really adopt it was sort of story

30:23

work so we were using it in our marriage of

30:26

time and then found out how great it is to

30:29

use with men so we said well what if we

30:31

just get together in a bit of the premise is

30:33

simply that stick with out going into the whole how he

30:37

does Allender theory all that is basically we created our

30:41

version the simplified version for us as we do a

30:44

story map which means that you basically build a linear

30:48

story of your eyes and your lives with a middle lines of

30:50

zero is you know varied it's just normal then things

30:55

that were great things are terrible on a scale of one

30:58

to 10: 10 AM to kind of plot things over

30:59

the course of your story plot them on there A lot of

31:02

people have heard this is hills and valleys Victor Frankel

31:05

actually came up with that and we utilize that tool just to

31:09

get the primer like going and then we ask men

31:11

to do is pick one of those stories and write

31:14

8 00 to 1 000 words on that story that

31:17

specific space not all the stuff around it not this

31:21

is literally I'm using this to tell you about my

31:23

mom you know no it's like the whole thing is

31:26

based around this moment and then in that moment the

31:28

man reads the story because writing it out and reading

31:31

it in front of a group of men is terrifying

31:34

humbling vulnerability enters and grieving starts to enter and it's

31:37

very rare I have any man that does this to any

31:41

degree there's I've never seen a man not cry like

31:45

this just not I mean men that don't cry like

31:47

I haven't cried in 20 years you know And so they

31:50

took because they're having to look at it and they look

31:53

at it and they share it and then this group

31:54

of men we called is hold space for them creates

31:57

containment is our Islanders language we provide containment for them

32:01

and then we ask questions so it's just hey I

32:05

heard you say this what does that mean to you

32:07

hey this tell me about that so you know when

32:09

we work through that well in that process what did it

32:13

happening was I ran into something called the work which

32:17

is a documentary that changed my life John Tysons primal

32:21

path him and then the book iron John by Robert

32:26

Bly that was the catalyst to iron John by Robert

32:29

Blyth really was the catalytic connecting piece between all of

32:34

these things because what he did was connect mythological understanding

32:39

and historical rights of passage to modern sort of tools

32:45

for how do we do this in a group of

32:47

men that which then connect me to the mankind And project which if

32:51

you ever heard of but all of that stuff started coming at me

32:54

at once and we just used our Wednesday nights as sort

32:58

of a place to practice so anything we learned we

33:01

would just shop in the room and we would go

33:03

OK let's try this you know and it would be a

33:07

total crap show most the time because you don't know

33:09

what you're doing it's like again just like the guitar

33:12

stuff I had a tool I had space so I'm

33:16

just like let's try it and what happened was our

33:19

circle kept growing and so now we do entire weekends

33:22

for it but that was really the catalytic stuff that

33:25

sort of sent us into the space awesome yeah I'm

33:30

very I'm very familiar with everything you're explaining so I

33:33

think this is so needed so deep and it's missing right

33:35

now it really is a missing piece And you know

33:39

you know what Jake the worlds got it the world has

33:41

it in some of their programs and I've seen it

33:43

there and I was like wow we need that so

33:45

I'm glad that you're your bring this in redeeming it and putting

33:49

in the proper contacts because it does get weird there's

33:52

a lot of personal development coaching programs in the world that use

33:55

a lot of this stuff but then I always walk away saying

33:58

OK I can keep that that was totally wrong I

34:00

didn't participate in this part because they get a little

34:03

mystical they get a little bit weird I've seen that

34:06

firsthand And I think in the men's space total even with

34:09

the conversation we're having here I mean there's so many

34:11

people because right now the gap is real and the

34:15

world showing us like yeah there's an issue here there's

34:17

a gap and we have worldly secular coaches people with

34:21

different ideas they're not godly and then a Christian guy

34:25

doesn't have a lot of places to go and he's asked to listen

34:29

but then they're always left in the state of tension

34:31

a bad tension a state of confusion of OK I

34:35

like that there's something that's resonating it's pulling on my

34:38

heart but at the same time like I got to

34:40

get over this issue and there's something kind of sinful

34:43

here and this is weird and they just it's a

34:45

state of confusion so I love I love what you're

34:48

doing do you wanna comment on that a little bit

34:50

because I mean I always go to what Jesus says you

34:52

know he says take heed to how you hear and

34:55

so I'm a big believer that we just can't hit

34:58

subscribe to any one that comes across our feed that we

35:01

have to really guard what voices and who we really listen

35:05

to especially as we go down the path Of doing

35:08

some deep work yeah I think I'm roar actually talked

35:11

about it like the cleanest that I've seen because he had his whole

35:14

work started roar started everything was men stuff I mean if

35:17

you read Adam 's return wisemen to wild Minda Wiseman the

35:24

quest for the grill like all these books that he

35:27

wrote on masculinity rites of passage all these things one

35:30

of the things that he sort of lands on in

35:32

this was from I just might've been early 90s as

35:36

he's like is he basically just said and he was

35:39

commenting on all the massive movements at that time cause

35:41

you talking promise keepers all that stuff now it's something

35:43

really decent to offer from the mythopoetic men's movement with

35:47

Robert Bly knows guys to promise keepers doing the stadium

35:50

stuff all awesome but really what it comes down to

35:54

is you have to have a try two things you have to

35:57

have a tribe of 30 and I Danny Martin Shaw he

36:00

always says that if you can't be seen effectively by

36:03

30 you'll try to get seen by 30 million and

36:07

that really is what we're watching we're watching a ton

36:09

of men who haven't been seen by 30 which is

36:12

the size of a stereotypical tribe and so they're spending

36:16

their lives trying to get seen by 30 million and

36:19

so there's the missing piece of being seen by 30

36:22

dudes and then the other part is if I am

36:25

not radically and ridiculously anchored to Jesus Christ none of it

36:30

has stay in power and I tell me this listen and

36:33

this is again I am the The again the weirdo

36:36

fringe guy I'm like if that things moving you go

36:38

but don't stop go to you it's weird and I

36:41

know it's actually jacked up but you're getting something from

36:44

it keep going is those who seek will eventually find

36:47

so if you land on some thing and you get

36:50

you're gonna get stuck just like everyone else you're gonna

36:53

be stuck in some weird like circular thinking masculinity weird

36:58

thing that points to know where he turn off so of course it's

37:02

gonna fracture and leave you more damage than when it

37:05

when you start it because at the end of the

37:07

day if it's not anchored to eternity who cares like

37:10

it Hass to be anchored in Christ in Christ alone

37:13

the man Jesus Christ must be at the center that was

37:18

awesome I meant you spent three days telling parsable and the

37:21

quest for the holy Grail 12 meant over three days

37:24

but we don't do that anymore like we don't get

37:27

around fire pits until stories but stories were the corporate

37:31

Wiebe tribe and then my story begin to makes Sense

37:34

as the singular I in the midst of doing that

37:37

but because my center is Christ I get to tell

37:40

the story from a perspective that most people want and

37:43

multiple don't even know that half the story was written

37:45

by a knight and half the story was written by

37:47

a priest so no wonder it has such a beautiful

37:50

holy language in it based around the grail that I

37:54

love the description of it again it's the tension because

37:57

it's the grail is described as a rock who held

38:00

intention the dark and the light in that holy space

38:04

of tension gave abundance to the earth and I'm like

38:08

I love that like those that language is stuff we

38:11

don't even use anymore you know I mean we're like give me

38:14

the next teaching five steps to being a better man and

38:16

12 steps in another father Good father another 2 5

38:20

steps and I'll be a good husband is like now you're probably

38:23

gonna suck most the time as me really painful sorry about it like

38:26

that's just the way it works but here's a really

38:28

great story to help you see yourself so you don't

38:31

feel alone in it yeah but we left formulas man

38:34

we don't want story what formulas do you know formula Jesus

38:38

man there's just no formula it's like when we were

38:40

even trying to get people saved by a prayer you

38:42

know how I feel about that I'm like come on

38:45

man I'm gonna enter into eternity after with a repeat

38:48

after me like karaoke Jesus you know I mean like

38:51

we could all confused when there's no words on the

38:53

screen we hate tension we hate mystery but our life

38:58

exposes us to it constantly and that reality of being Christ

39:03

centered living in mystery intention allows me to be your voice to

39:06

places no one else gets to be a voice This is so

39:11

good man yeah I love this just kind of like

39:13

as a time out real quick I'll tell you like

39:14

I've I've done some deep work with I first got

39:17

exposed to it like in a secular program and was like this

39:20

was amazing this needs to be Christian I somehow this

39:23

needs to be done differently and as I'm kind of

39:26

building my own things and just kind of you know

39:28

exploring with the Lord putting on me I heard about

39:31

another Christian thing I kind of smirked at one thing you

39:34

said because I was explaining it to my uncle is a

39:37

pastor he's like oh you want to do that he

39:39

goes oh that's like this group I'm like what's that

39:41

group I never heard about it is I got a

39:42

check it out the sky knows it so like I'll

39:44

just go to it so I'm fresh off a weekend

39:47

I just did a weekend retreat Add to the wrist

39:50

30 guys there's 30 gas exactly what it was the same

39:56

chassis of what I did in the like more personal

39:59

development program is the same exact chassis different exercises and

40:02

totally redeemed in theologically a biblically sound like oh yeah

40:08

now I know I see what they did their yeah

40:10

so awful and itself mean there's loads of stuff out

40:13

there and that's a I have to go and just stay in my

40:17

lane cause I mean we're doing 12 guys at a

40:19

time because it's it we're gonna move and we're gonna

40:22

even shrink it we're going down to eat it doesn't pay

40:24

the bills dude yeah pay the bill from the guys

40:27

at a time you have to just on it and believing

40:30

it to such a degree you like I'm gonna get

40:31

this awesome OK so Jake tell me tell me about

40:34

the fight because your name your name what you're doing

40:37

the fight you have fight weekend so I'm gonna start

40:40

with a really simple question yeah Who are we fighting

40:44

what are we fighting what are we fighting for other sort

40:47

of key to the fight is we go we're looking

40:49

for one man one man equals one marriage equals one

40:53

family which means we got one generation and so we

40:57

are most of the time fighting ourselves and so I

41:01

love Raz language again these guys I just read a ton

41:04

and he says the first half of your life you

41:06

fight the devil the second half of the life your

41:08

life you find God And I like I just love

41:11

that language cause on your heroes journey you're just fighting

41:14

the devil everything is this upward climb you know and

41:18

he even jokes that you know if you give a

41:20

young man the Cross Hill just use it as another ego

41:22

pursuit which were seeing a lot and so there's a lot of us

41:25

fighting ourselves in fighting tension and fighting our story and fighting and

41:30

fighting and fighting and some of it's really great but

41:33

we have to recognize that if we're gonna actually fight the

41:37

fight for our family we got a fight the version

41:40

of ourselves that we've been presenting to everyone else for

41:43

decades and we have to watch him die yeah we have to

41:46

watch the imposter the shadow whatever name you want to

41:49

give it a Brennan many calls it the imposter from Arby's child

41:53

one of the best chapters of any book I ever read

41:57

And then you know young and sort of background would be

42:01

shadow you know some people call it different things but

42:04

I'm just like we're fighting the version of ourselves that

42:07

isn't authentic and where our weakness crosses our experience that's

42:12

where we'll find our real vulnerability and what I'm trying

42:15

to do is fight mend through the imposter and through the

42:19

shadow to get a picture of who they really are

42:22

because they don't know what they're fighting so they end

42:25

up fighting everyone else except for the imposter so they're

42:29

fighting their wife they're fighting their kids they're fighting some

42:32

fight out in culture and it doesn't mean anything because

42:35

it's not really fighting the thing that really matters you

42:39

know and doing the wrestling that it takes to get

42:42

a new name that's so good what's the consequences of

42:45

a guy who doesn't take this work on your neck It's this

42:48

piece like what happens I love you I think we're seeing it yeah

42:52

if you can this is the way it works I

42:53

mean you can go to 1 000 bucks on the stop

42:56

and they all have different language for the same thing

42:58

every young boy begins in the assent like they begin

43:02

in a hero at heroic journey not the Joseph Campbell

43:06

heroes journey that's a different piece but we are like

43:08

on a heroic ascent that's basically the ages of zero

43:11

to like even into your 30s right so like we

43:14

can get all the way into our 30s now somewhere

43:17

in there if we should be experiencing an initiation so

43:20

in initiation in the midst of our heroic journey humbles

43:23

us to become protectors and providers from the culture from

43:26

which we came OK so every initiatory experience was me knowing

43:30

the story of my tribe knowing the unique identity of

43:34

myself I mean some like you know VisionQuest type Native American

43:37

stuff they couldn't return until they heard their new name

43:41

from the great spirit which I love that language super

43:44

offensive to Christianity until we read revelation and we realize

43:48

that he Gonna give us a stone that has our

43:50

name written on it to step in the name we

43:51

were always supposed to be called so all of these

43:53

things crash into each other and what we do is we

43:56

continue on that ascent until we hit sort of a

43:59

midlife point what roar calls the crisis of limitation right end up

44:03

recognizing that I no longer I'm going to be able

44:06

to accomplish all I set out to do in my

44:08

life and part of the things I thought I'd become

44:11

I don't have time for any more so I hit this

44:14

crisis of limitation resource page energy all that stuff right until I get

44:18

three choices at that point and this is the key

44:21

right here what happens to a man who actually takes

44:24

this on embraces weakness intention mystery in their middle life

44:28

gets three out of three things that either become an old fool

44:32

basically saying I'm gonna continue on my heroes journey until

44:34

I'm 80 well now you're no help to anybody because

44:38

you continue that I sent in order to do it

44:41

in the amount of limited Energy and limited space and limited

44:46

time that you have you end up shutting everyone else down

44:49

because the only way to continue ascending is you got

44:51

50 60 70 80 year old men were building structures that hold

44:56

everyone else below them because they are still trying to

44:58

be on their heroic journey that ended three decades ago

45:01

but they're not willing to give it up you know

45:04

now for those that are like wow I have I'm

45:06

limited my life sucks it's over they begin in the

45:10

embittered journey so we have an old four or we have

45:13

a better fourth Their food is like this life sucks it's all awful

45:18

everyone's gonna die and you're all you're all gonna burn

45:22

in hell Didn't get anything you wanted to work out for him and

45:27

he wasn't willing to die before he died now the

45:30

third option is a good one the third option is the

45:32

way of the cross the third option says I am now

45:35

limited by time and space and resource and energy I'm

45:40

limited in all of these areas and I'm going to

45:43

embrace it because if I die before I die I

45:46

never have to die this is where I begin the leading

45:49

the letting go process I just keep leading up a man

45:52

who does this well by the end of his life

45:55

has already practiced dying so much that by the time

45:59

his physical body is ready to cross over he fully

46:02

embraces it without fear and with total courage because he's

46:06

already spent the second half of his life giving his resource

46:09

away giving his life away so by the time he

46:12

reaches the doors By the time he gets to that

46:16

space he's already he's good because he did it all

46:20

he gave it all away he didn't spend the second

46:22

half of his life still trying to build something for

46:25

God or for his family for whatever he invested it into

46:29

the people that were right in his meds and so

46:31

he can walk away totally clean knowing that he's going

46:35

to hear well done I love it man this is

46:38

such a great conversation we're going deep this is him

46:41

you know honestly you can't get into this conversation easily

46:44

it's not easily accessible because it's not being had in a lot of

46:47

places the stuff that you're talking about the dialogue it's

46:51

just like honestly I've come across this work in the

46:55

last couple years and it's really changed me and it's

46:58

a progression right and never stop I have some intentionality app but yeah

47:03

but so many men don't even know and we just

47:05

get a superficial Christianity we get a superficial understanding and

47:09

three point sermons and my formula but still not working

47:13

for me and then we're struggling and we end up

47:15

becoming one of the three guys you just described right

47:18

and what's hard about it is men are entering into

47:20

this journey with enough shame and guilt and soda than stack on

47:24

a three point sermon or a five point project they're not really

47:27

gonna get out of it what they want the claims are like

47:30

this actually is real work this actually is real dying this

47:33

is actually real engagements real integration it's real diving into

47:37

like we said these men on the beach this weekend in

47:41

The first night we didn't go straight to the house

47:43

we ended up having this really magical beautiful moment we're

47:47

across this lake we were at like started having a

47:49

thunder and lightning storm like across the lake and we're

47:53

sitting on this beach had to walk 1 50 yards

47:56

across it and we're sitting barefoot sitting in this space and

48:00

watching thunder on one side and lightning and the other

48:03

crystal clear sky and saying this is where we will

48:06

sit we are entering into this with knowing there's a

48:11

storm on one side clear-cut clear sky on the other and

48:14

we're gonna sit in this tension we're gonna sit in

48:17

this mystery we're gonna sit in the uniqueness of this

48:19

moment knowing that what I am actually created for already

48:23

lies inside of me it's just buried under shame and

48:26

guilt it's been buried under shame and guilt for so

48:29

long that we don't even know how to access it

48:31

anymore and I we talk about it as a Robert

48:33

Blaize language is the long bad we drive behind us

48:36

so we were born Alice Miller talks about in her

48:39

book at the drama to gift a child Talks about

48:42

how are born with 3 60 ° of radiance everywhere

48:46

we don't know like little kids just beaming but our

48:50

entire lives part of that light keeps getting sly stop he be quiet

48:54

he be good hey we don't act like that then you

48:56

throw like abuse or triggers or molestation or any of

48:59

the really big stuff she start chopping off the lights by

49:02

the time we're in our 20s we got this like

49:05

we were born 3 60 radiance we were a light on

49:08

the hill a city that cannot be hidden then were

49:12

left with like a sliver but where did all those

49:14

other versions of me go well they all got tossed

49:17

in a bag I've been dragging for 20 years I've

49:20

been dragging since I was 4 5 6 7 8

49:22

it's versions of me that I actually am but they didn't

49:27

give me the love and acceptance I actually needed to

49:29

survive so I chopped them off threw them in a

49:32

bag and I've been dragging around for 20 30 years

49:35

now we know why men are tired in their 50s

49:37

and 60s because they've never done any of the work

49:40

of Blake Re-fork the shadow work behind there to actually

49:44

open that bag up and deal with what's in there

49:46

who I really am so they're getting like 40 50 60

49:49

night I'm tired as hell man I don't need five

49:52

points give me authenticity somebody tell me how to open

49:56

this bag get that energy out of that bag get it

50:00

back into my life so I can end fully me

50:03

I don't need another project I don't need another cop

50:06

I don't need hype I need somebody to look me

50:08

in the eyes and go dude what you just said

50:10

is bull crap That is wrong man and I'm not

50:14

gonna let you buy that anymore open that bag and let's talk about

50:18

what's in there let's do the hard work and then

50:20

all the sudden they get invigorated their energy dude every man this

50:24

weekend was like I have never felt more seen in

50:26

my whole life this is the deepest I've ever been

50:29

in my whole life and it's happening in their 40s

50:33

5 6 dude we can't we cannot sit by and

50:39

let men drag these bags waste their energy and slaughter

50:43

their families in the name of an imposter that's living

50:46

their life because their light got cut off when they

50:49

were 6 7 8 9 10 we got to get

50:53

that stuff back and we have to help them that is

50:56

our job as men who are doing this we don't

51:00

have all the answers great good you know what somebody needs they

51:03

don't need answers they don't need fixing no man wants

51:06

to be fixed you're just gonna piss him off don't

51:09

try to fix man sit with the man and ask him if you Actions

51:12

that are really hard and let him squirm in his

51:15

chair and stay silent until he answers that's coaching right there

51:19

that's it yeah and it's been that kind of work

51:23

in a holy space with the right tools right there's

51:28

nothing a man can't do with that let's address this

51:31

real quick because for for listeners I don't know where

51:33

everybody's at as they hear this and I just wanna

51:36

talk about you know someone might be listening to this

51:40

I don't know their age and the faith or aware

51:42

where they come from or who is listening at one

51:44

point in the future Someone might be thinking hey I

51:47

thought all that stuff got fixed when I got saved

51:50

like isn't that what Jesus does so can you look

51:53

up like to hear your perspective because we're talking about the

51:56

soul realm and the staff the trauma the junk that

51:59

hurts the wounds and I'll let you I'll let you

52:03

some that up for anyone that's that might have that thought

52:05

like hey I thought it was good because you are

52:08

good but you still have some stuff we have to deal

52:10

with because every time every time we do this they're

52:14

like wait wait a minute There's not covered in the

52:18

blood and I'm like well look at it this way Jesus

52:20

died to save you from your sin not your story

52:24

OK and here's the best example I can give you

52:26

and it works for me which is this twofold number

52:31

one Jesus so let's first talk about death and darkness

52:35

which is become an enemy of the church and it's

52:38

not an enemy it's actually a friend and actually all

52:41

the best miracles in Scripture happened in the dark Jesus

52:44

was raised from the dead in the dark of the

52:45

cave but let's start there so Jesus gets out of the

52:49

cave we all know the story he the tomb the

52:51

stone in front of the tomb is rolled away correct So

52:54

then now to now two chapters later he walks through a

52:58

wall to go be with his friends correct so so

53:02

resurrected body Jesus can walk through walls so why didn't

53:06

he just walk out of the tube with the stones still there

53:11

well what if it wasn't rolled away so that he

53:14

could get out so bad but so that we could

53:16

get in what if we were actually supposed to die

53:20

with Christ what if we were actually supposed to get another empty

53:23

tomb and lay down with him and let him resurrect

53:26

us because the hard part is my sin has been

53:29

covered but my story is still real So I don't

53:32

have to pay the cost of the repercussions of my life

53:35

but it is still my life it is still my

53:38

story it is still the reality and people are like well yeah

53:41

but that doesn't make sense OK when Jesus does get resurrected

53:45

does walk through the wall what does he keep what's the

53:49

only thing Jesus keeps from pre- resurrection Scars

53:56

that's all he keeps the only man-made thing in heaven

53:59

is Jesus 's scars and what does he use those

54:01

scars for to destroy doubt so no wonder we're not

54:06

doing a good job of destroying doubt we're busy hiding

54:09

our scars we can't destroy doubt with good theology we

54:12

can't destroy fear with good theology we can't destroy any

54:16

of the shame and guilt that people are experiencing with

54:19

a nice worship song is a three point sermon we

54:21

cannot do it you know what does it Here's my scars

54:26

look been there I love that reality because my scars are

54:33

what show off his goodness and we're busy saying got

54:36

delivered from that no that's a different than still having

54:40

them on your body and showing them off yes I

54:45

have been healed from the repercussions of what those scars

54:48

mean for Jesus they should've met death well now they

54:50

mean life he redeems the entire narrative so that you

54:55

become the handiwork of God and one of the best

54:58

one of the best moments of this for me was

55:00

in a San Francisco airport sitting at the bar with these

55:03

two guys from London watching a football game and I

55:06

need an actual American football game at two guys from

55:08

London Bela being bankers we strike up a conversation I'll give

55:12

you this very short version and I go we're having

55:14

this literally like little dialogue sitting there just hanging out And

55:19

they go eventually you know I've asked them their bankers

55:21

what are you do they ask me I go I travel

55:23

playing music in churches I also work with men do

55:26

a lot of like I do lotta inner work with men using Christ at the

55:29

center of the whole deal and the other one of

55:31

the two guys leans over and he's like hey I'm

55:35

an atheist just so you know I'm like oh man didn't really

55:38

ask but we're great you know good idea You've been

55:43

to this part of my God I've been alone action of the

55:45

Spartans pop in to this church in his church he's like oh

55:47

my gosh so crazy and I guess you look how do

55:49

you get into that I was like oh well my

55:51

daughter was diagnosed with Shiva palsy and it kind of

55:53

sent me on this journey me and my wife and

55:54

my family and immediately the atheist pizza and he goes

55:58

you'll see that's why I won't believe in God because

56:00

you're chill your daughter won't because your daughter can't walk

56:04

and children are starving in Africa that's what he said

56:07

and I said OK sweet do you mind if I

56:09

address those first the big one then the personal one

56:12

and I he's like yeah yeah whatever you know I

56:14

said sweet you're a baker is there enough money on planet

56:18

earth to take care of every human being he goes yeah

56:21

I go OK is there enough food on planet earth for

56:24

everyone to get enough calories so that no one will start

56:27

he says yes absolutely and then I asked him this

56:29

question then who's fault is it Dude starts crying while

56:34

it's ours and I said no it's not it's yours

56:37

make it personal I'm not a banker I don't have

56:40

your money you have your money have you have any kids

56:42

in Africa did you pay for my daughter surgeries did

56:45

you do any of that no it's your fault and

56:48

now let's take it let's take it personal I said

56:51

my daughter was born with cerebral palsy diagnosed at 15 months

56:54

we went through a ton of work trying to figure

56:56

out who God was in the process that got fired

56:59

from my church ended up starting our prayer wrote some songs

57:01

of the house of prayer those got picked up by

57:03

a label ended up going in traveling the world for

57:06

for five years and up still traveling to travel to

57:08

this day oh my gosh I traveled onto today my plane

57:12

was delayed I'm not supposed to be here so I

57:14

end up traveling being here now sitting with you telling you

57:17

about God and the way you've never heard of them

57:19

before now when you go home and you accept Jesus

57:22

cause you're going to after this all happens you're gonna

57:24

make him lord and savior of your life when you

57:26

get to heaven and you meet my daughter for the

57:28

first time because you'll be a creditor that you'll be

57:31

on her credit in Not mine she's the one that

57:33

had to couldn't walk all those years when you get

57:35

to happen and you look at my daughter walking in

57:37

perfect perfect restoration and she walks up to you and

57:40

says welcome in do you think she's gonna be bummed about bummed

57:43

out about the 60 to 80 years she walked on

57:46

earth with not walking and knowing that the price of

57:48

her not walking is your salvation eternally and forever in

57:51

heaven with Jesus Christ wow so powerful dude he lost it and

57:58

I'm like I'm gonna get you to prepare to go talk

58:00

to Jesus when you get back to your hotel room

58:02

tonight please real so when you can talk to him he'll

58:04

talk back but the point is we're not making any

58:08

of those connections we're going God delivered Me Again we're

58:12

back to the duality conversation it's the simple nope Jesus blood

58:16

it's all covered Isabella not look at your old me I was abused

58:20

like hell man you gotta look that kid in the

58:22

mirror and you gotta look at him and deal with

58:25

the repercussions of abuse abandonment rape all of the addictions

58:31

you have to look yourself in the mirror and know that

58:34

that stuff made you who you are today but because

58:38

of the blood of Jesus you don't have to face any

58:41

of the ramifications ramifications or repercussions of that because you

58:44

got redemption instead that's the best news Jake that's amazing

58:49

that's amazing story I'm gonna leave it right there I

58:52

have I have to get to something else before you wrap

58:55

up because I want you to tell the people that

58:57

are listening I want you to talk about the fight

59:00

how people connect with you so really drop those links below but

59:02

before we do just one other thing that I wanna

59:06

know about your day today as a man do you

59:10

have any daily disciplines any things that you do part

59:14

of this to pull through anything that I'm always into

59:17

you know we're here we wanna we wanna be high

59:20

performers we want to maximize what we have and it

59:23

all comes down to routine ritual what we do who

59:25

we are how we perform every day so I'm just

59:28

curious if you could share a little bit about your

59:29

routines your rituals what you do on a daily basis

59:32

that power your mission and power what you're doing Absolutely

59:36

I probably it's going to be some of the same thing you

59:38

guys probably all would say I get up at 5

59:42

AM I head straight to the gym I basically and I don't

59:46

work out crazy hard I am doing it to keep

59:49

my body moving and to like really just keep some

59:52

flexibility so I do about 4 5 minutes of weightlifting

59:56

different focus on different parts of the body than I

59:58

do swimming I swim a mile then I jump in

60:01

the pool some of my own that's how I end

60:03

come home and then I do my meditation time so I sit

60:06

in meditation take communion almost every morning And when I

60:10

say meditation I mean the really contemplative prayer so I will repeat

60:15

phrases or I mean really simple wants to you know

60:18

Jesus Christ of God have mercy on me a sinner you

60:21

know I mean I really like Will will meditate just

60:23

let it sit on my body I'm really really big

60:26

on like we have to like we we have to start recognizing

60:31

like it's one thing that to push weights and to do

60:33

working out it's another to be in touch with you with

60:35

your physical body that's a whole different ball game and

60:38

I wanna be in touch with this thing so I

60:40

want it I wanna listen to it so sleep in

60:43

those things and then like most guys like who do

60:46

this stuff long-term and psycho then cold shower so like Wim

60:49

Hof that if you know what I mean so like

60:51

I'm just in the cold shower try to hold in there

60:53

for a minute try to regulate my breathing and get

60:56

really focused and then I'll start my workday with a

61:00

podcast or book something that'll keep my brain moving And

61:04

then I jump in to work and I pretty much break for

61:06

lunch every day with my wife because I work at

61:08

home and so we do and then I'm done like

61:12

right now I'll be done usually I go till three

61:14

or four but I stayed up with you but that's

61:16

like we have a pretty hard cut time 90 %

61:19

of the time so that the rest of the evening

61:21

I just spent with family I appreciate this man this

61:24

is really valuable to me I love you bro this

61:26

is a powerful conversation and we are biohacking with Jake

61:30

Hamilton I love it cold showers breathing Biblical meditation yeah man

61:36

that's the way we live that sets the crew that

61:38

we got listening to us so this conversation is crazy

61:42

valuable you Jake bring a song by just telling us where

61:45

people can connect with you will drop all the links

61:47

below but if people wanna learn more about what you

61:49

do what you got coming up and hey I don't

61:51

know maybe there's a special announcement you're working on a

61:53

project or there's something on the music side do you

61:55

wanna share you can do whatever you want yeah I

61:58

mean honestly right now we take a little break towards

62:01

the end of the year we are currently when we're

62:03

recording this but we have what I what was was

62:06

coming up for next year as we do a few things

62:08

every year we're gonna we're doing a fight summit which

62:10

comes in January so that's sort of our larger gathering

62:13

we're men can come and learn about story learn about

62:16

mythology sort of it it's just a primer like hey

62:18

if you're interested that's a place to go fight some

62:21

at January just want to be in Redding it's like the

62:23

third week of January find all of it at the

62:25

links below all the websites have all the information then

62:29

from there we do a three times a year we

62:31

do courage course in Mantock Monday courage to call This is

62:35

basically 15 16 day pre- recorded dialogue we have a

62:39

private Facebook group we kind of just go after dialogue

62:41

in the biblical foundations of masculinity very very basic especially a lot of

62:46

people who follow me are in that sort of space so

62:49

it's a nice bridge to kind of go he lets

62:52

dialogue about some of these things but completely from scripture

62:55

and then we jump to man talk Mondays but we

62:57

only take 15 guys or we took 18 this last

63:00

time it was a lot so about 15 18 guys live

63:04

zoom every week for eight weeks so we all jump

63:07

on we check in that's where we start introducing the

63:10

deep works of some of the inner work some of the story

63:13

work some of the like what does it mean to

63:14

carry a long bag what does that look like what

63:16

what is shadow work what is grief work what does

63:19

it mean to actually do that work as a man

63:21

on a regular basis and not just show up to

63:23

the conference in the height then the below that is

63:26

really what we're like what we do that's arc sort

63:29

of core is the fight weekend and a fight weekend

63:32

we only take 8 to 12 guys max Them and

63:35

we we it's like all expense paid you just get

63:38

there we cover everything else you show up with the

63:41

story having watched the work and we dive in like

63:44

basically over the course of two days we do maybe

63:47

12 to 14 hours of like really deep intense story

63:53

work where men get to open up and be cared

63:56

for and contained possibly for some of the salmon very first time and

64:00

so that's kind of the big stuff and then this year

64:03

which nobody knows about yet we're gonna be doing our

64:05

first fight we can fight fight weekend one flesh so

64:09

we're gonna be doing our first marriage weekend with eight

64:11

couples in Napa Valley And we've got like a really

64:15

dope set up with their with cottages in a whole

64:17

thing but we're gonna be doing a lot of the story work

64:19

stuff with couples so me and my wife will go

64:22

in hopes that we're just gonna go after I just

64:24

see healthy and he'll marriages so but that's where the

64:27

plan but all that stuff you can find out more

64:29

information at this is the fight .com or fight weekend

64:33

.org awesome any last words for men guys listening close

64:38

it out every meeting with its this it's this book

64:42

called the blessing it's originates with a woman Native American woman

64:47

from the north east of North America from the eagle clan

64:51

her name is pocket niece and she said this at

64:54

the end of the podcast I have adopted it as we called

64:57

the blessing and it is you are the evidence of

65:00

the strength of your ancestors There are many things within

65:03

your lineage that attempted to obliterate all forms of goodness

65:09

but you are the living proof that it did not

65:14

work wow we're gonna leave it right there Jake it's been an honor

65:19

guys until next time let's raise the standard hey guys

65:23

my name is Josh Kachadorian on the author of the book the

65:27

standard discovering Jesus as the standard for masculinity and I

65:31

just put together a brand new challenge for you the

65:34

ambitious Christian man if you're in business if you want

65:37

to reach your full capacity if you

65:39

wanna unlock your potential I need to tell you there is an unfair advantage that is available to

65:44

all Christian men but not all access

65:48

it that's why I put together this free 11 day email challenge click the

65:54

link below sign up for the challenge and you

65:56

will get equipped with the knowledge the resources and everything you need to take your I miss land

66:03

and learn how to partner with your unfair advantage can't

66:06

wait to see you in the challenge