Reclaiming Masculinity with Jake Hamilton

Artwork for podcast Raising The Standard

Episode 80 • 24th January 2023 • Raising The Standard • Josh Khachadourian

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What if we were actually supposed to die with Christ

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what if we were actually supposed to get another empty tomb and

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lay down with him and let him resurrect us because

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the hard part is my sin has been covered but my

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story is still real so I don't have to pay the

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cost of the repercussions of my life but it is

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still my life

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All right welcome to another episode of raising the standard this

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is leader ship mindset and development for ambitious Christian men

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if that's you you're in the right place and guys

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we have an awesome episode lined up for you I've

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been really excited about this one because there's a guy

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that I met a few years ago you probably know him

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I'm about to introduce him to you and I've been

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following him and he's really got a mission that he's

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on right now about masculinity and before we jump right

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into that topic I wanna introduce you to him get a

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little bit of his background and just see some of

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the commonalities that he has with us because he's not

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only a musician he's also an entrepreneur and he's also on

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a mission to reclaim and restore masculinity and call you

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and me higher into the Position that God created us

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and called us to occupy so without further ado I

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am going to introduce my very special guest this week

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I got Mr. Jake Hamilton Jake how are you doing

1:32

man good thank you so much for having me it's a

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pleasure to be here man I'm glad we could finally do

1:36

this yeah man I've been looking forward to a site to have

1:39

this conversation conversation with you AJ just for our listeners for

1:44

those that don't know you if you could just give

1:47

us a little bit of your background obviously you've been

1:50

in ministry for a long time you are a musician you

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have multiple records out I was listening to your latest

1:55

single today just kind of getting a zone for this

1:57

one so if you could just kind of walk us

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through a little bit for the guys that know you

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and the guys that don't know you just hear your

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music background and your ministry background as we set the

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stage for the conversation where we're going to get into Yeah basically

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we planning to church when we were about 19 by

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accident I came back to the church by $50 guitar when

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I was 18 years old worked with the camp I work

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at a camp with inner-city kids in like Compton Long Beach

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like that whole area in LA that's where were we

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were originally from so we were down there working with

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kids from our city on with the Salvation Army camp like I said and

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I would lead worship there because the worship leader left

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in the middle of the night one night and they

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left a note that said this place sucks and so

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they're like who else owns a guitar they're like oh

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Jake doesn't he's loud and obnoxious so we'll just you lead

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worship a new two cords and so I had to

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make up songs on the spot for kids and that's

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how I started songwriting that's how I started leading worship

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and when we came back I interned at our Baptist

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church which we did for a couple years before we

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ended up planting a church of young people which is

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like an emergent church church for church model years and

3:05

years ago some might remember in so we had a

3:08

church of 60 that likes 6 00 over like for

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five months I mean it was like the craziest thing

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and we were doing a ton of art because I

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was actually interviewing for Disney at the times I thought that

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was what I was going to do I thought I was going

3:20

to go you know be an animator and be sort

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of a creative brainstorm or like they have imagine years

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which what they call them there was like that's what I want

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to be so that's what I was targeting I used

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all that in the church for about eight years that's

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where I met my wife wrote a ton of songs

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and then got fired from the church we planted cause

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we met the Holy Spirit which was delightful so we met

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holy spirit because my daughter was diagnosed with cerebral palsy and

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so I either realize like I have an a crossroads

3:47

with God like either he really sucks or there's some

3:50

things I don't know about them and so I was

3:51

like well let's just go with her some things I

3:53

don't know about him that took me on a journey

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to Kansas City international House of prayer and Bethel Church in

3:58

Redding California where we currently live Right now and that

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sort of gave us the space to explore gotten a

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brand new way and when we were let go of

4:08

the church that we planted we end up planting a house of

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prayer we did 2 4 seven prayer for about three

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years that's where I wrote all the songs that got

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recorded with Jesus Culture cause they came in and you know

4:20

said hey we want to put you on a label there really

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isn't a label but would love to have you on

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it and so we were like one of the first

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artist that Jesus Culture had on their label and that was

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a wild ride for four years we did that with

4:32

Jesus Culture traveled all over the place About 2 0 10

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we slowed everything down to basically focus on family I

4:41

was really hard on my marriage in so we had some

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fathers that came in and there was no addiction no

4:47

pornography none of that like extra marital stuff it was

4:50

really just I was a workaholic and because I was

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work a workaholic for Jesus everybody gave me a high five

4:55

instead of telling me to slow down and focus on

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my family and so I finally slowed everything down about

5:01

that time we started like a little bit of a

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label with some friends just to get people recorded I'm always had

5:07

like entrepreneurial stuff going on on the side so I'm just

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trying to empower people every chance I get using every

5:13

resource we have Long story short as our marriage got

5:17

better we started doing stuff for marriages and then ended

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up in a place where we were doing stuff for men because

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we got basically a word that was someone encouraged us

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that said he listen you really want to help marriages

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go get men and I was like all right let's do

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it so the last handful of years as my boys are becoming

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teenagers I was like let's let's figure out how to

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do this in my house and then I'll be figured

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out how to do it in my house with my kids

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we invited eight men and we've been meeting for about

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three years here in my garage and then that led

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to what we now called the fight so it's up

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it's a crazy journey of like over 20 years of

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ministry always having some sort of artistic side hustle as

5:58

well from design work to branding work website all that

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stuff we kind of do a little bit of everything

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but that allows us the flexibility to really focus on

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the type of ministry want to do and where God calls

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us to do without being tied down to a paycheck

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and You know figuring it out traditionally yeah wow there's

6:17

so much there Jake that was an awesome synopsis Five years

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yeah yeah I got it that's that's incredible we can

6:27

we can stay on that for a while you said a

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couple things I can't take in everything there but the first

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thing you said you know like I didn't know that

6:34

was your backstory the way you started doing music it

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was kind of like hey we need a spot you're

6:39

here you got you got instrument let's go I will I

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want to ask you because a lot of our guys are listening and

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I know that we're all exploring this is like what's

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my mission what's my purpose like this these are big

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questions that men wrestle with and what was that journey

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like for you because did you have it in your

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heart that you want to be a musician did you

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feel a call on your life yeah so walk walk

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us to that a little bit cause it's opportunity opens up and then how

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do you decide like this is a no I'm supposed

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to be doing this are you looking for favor like

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I'd like to understand that a little bit it's awesome

7:12

Just FYI it's going to be like I am the

7:15

nontraditional is the nonconformist and most of these world suggest I usually I

7:20

really love language and really hate common language in so

7:23

even a word like calling I'm like we end up

7:25

waiting for this sort of supernatural bolt of lightning to

7:28

hit us and then we go it's my calling it's

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like we'll know just use what's in your hands when

7:33

Moses was called to go to the Israelites he was

7:36

Moses was like why did I stutter and I don't

7:38

have anything he's like what's in your hand is like

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a stick yeah that'll do and it's like for most

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of us we don't even pay attention to the stick

7:45

in our hand we're waiting for the $10 million somebody supposed

7:48

to give us and so I'm like I'm just saw die over

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the word calling personally right now just cause I know

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a bunch of young people to you when I talk to

7:56

men like I'm just waiting for a word from the

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Lord I'm like what in the hell is in your

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hand use that and see happens and that was the

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way it was for me I didn't want to be

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a worship leader I wasn't signed up to I barely at that

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point I don't know anything I mean I felt like

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I can't Sing songs about Jesus I barely know myself and

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they're like go for it buddy and I'm like dude

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that is the way that I think most men actually

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need to get into the thing that they're created to

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do because it's like they're so busy wondering what they

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don't have that they pay so little attention to what

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they do have because what they do have is never

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good enough you know and for me I was like

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I got a guitar and a voice not like there's

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nobody else here so who's gonna do it and like I'll

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do it and I look like an idiot 90 %

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of the time I looked like a moron you know

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I mean but if you're not if you're you're not

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trying to prove anything in your ego is not stopping

8:48

you like I'll run into it let's just see what

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comes out yeah all right so as we follow that like

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was it easy for you did things click together was

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the resistance along the way and what did that like did you

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have feelings of K I don't know if I'm supposed

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to be doing this or was there a time where

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you're like all right like I know I know this is

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what it is Again it's for us it's about following

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the narrative that's in front of you so what is

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in my hands and what story is in front of

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me so what's in my hands this guitar right now what

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I got so and it seems to give me a

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little bit of ability to lead and right now it's with

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kids then I came back and returned for the church they're like

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oh you play guitar why don't you lead some worship

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here cool I learned a few more chords learned a few more

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songs wrote a few songs on my own and just followed

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that narrative where it led at the same time I

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was on the side doing a ton of large scale

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murals for like businesses and schools and I was painting

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banners I mean I'm only 19 years old at the

9:45

time 19 20 still living at my parents house so

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I'm just like you know doing a basic internship at

9:50

a church driving my business which is growing and thriving and

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awesome and I'm just doing being faithful to work with

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what's right in front of me and I dude over

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my career of like worship leading I FaceTime to resist

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I do not sound like a worship leader I don't

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know how many times I can tell you you know what I

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mean weather like Not sure if that's worship you know

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so they're like God Could you sing do you know can you

10:20

sing that nice song we all know that all the

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time so I get invited to someplace and I just want to

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still to this day they'll be like why can you

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play these type of songs and honestly I just now

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I just go now I'm good like I don't need

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to come I'll give you a list of worship leaders

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who do that I just know who I am and

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I'm like the loud rock like I'm not gonna play

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the north my songs aren't like normal fit in your Sunday

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worship set I don't think they're any less worshipful and

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I don't think that they're any less worship music it's

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just for me I'm like I Just don't play I

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just I haven't really played it safe and so when

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you don't play it safe if you don't have the

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heart to be rejected over and over again you keep yourself

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stable you weren't you're just go get a job and

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let somebody be your boss like you're not made for

11:07

entrepreneurship number one I need and I would say there's

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a ton of story work that we could get into

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with your story because at the end of the day

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like you still don't know who you are and you're

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like a 4 5 50 year old man like that's

11:20

a problem like that's a real issue like let's forget

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about the calling for a second who the heck are

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you and if I didn't have that first like I'm

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OK with who I am and I don't care how

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it comes out because I'm not here to impress anyone

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and as long as my heart is clean before God

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and I am serving my house first Everything else will work

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itself out eventually I'm not really worried about it but

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that the journey wasn't as clean as like and then

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and then I did this and then I made this

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maneuver unlike the people I've seen change the planet the

11:53

most effectively just follow the path that was right in

11:56

front of him and didn't question it when everybody else

11:58

did yeah that's awesome well I want to get into

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that journey a little bit I want to see some of

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those highlights in your life and you obviously have had

12:06

I would assume some strong men that came around you

12:08

to give you the sense of identity and that's where

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your missions coming from or I'd like to hear about

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the Beasley got kicked in the balls over and over and

12:15

over again Then I'm gonna I'm gonna be honest with you

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I had a guy had a couple of guys over

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I had at the truth as I had a good

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dad he was one-handed me being a workaholic so he

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did give me that which dad had to be that

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had to be ground out of me by a really amazing

12:33

wife where I'm like oh service to God and it's hard

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as a minister you can work you know hundred hours

12:39

and everyone's like it's for Jesus you know and you're like yeah

12:42

yeah I agree why is my family falling apart then that's

12:45

not working but I had a really great dad who

12:49

was in touch with his emotions all of them including

12:52

anger you know but over the course of my life

12:54

he just was always there you know I mean so

12:57

I had a good man as a dad And I

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had a handful of friends like we were kind of ride

13:04

or die and over the time over the course of

13:07

time at peers but kris Vallotton really is the one who stands

13:10

out as like a dad who showed up and it's

13:13

not like he's consistent in our lives or anything like

13:15

that Chris Melton from Bethel Church he and he just showed

13:18

up at all the right times basically just told me

13:20

I suck as a husband So it was like it

13:24

was like but all the other men I've ever been

13:26

around just massively wounded me and I had to have

13:30

enough guts to just go I'm not gonna I'm gonna

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let it wound me but not mark me and determine

13:35

like bitterness and things like that now not that I

13:37

haven't had my moments but it's very rare that I've

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had like I'm looking for a wise elder I'm looking

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for someone who's a little further ahead that's been the

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radical and I've had a few of those touch points with

13:49

some people in the moment but man I wish I could

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I'm trying to grow up the man who will be

13:54

that to a generation because I didn't have that that's

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my goal I am I was always taught if you're

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looking for something in your life you don't have you're

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probably supposed to become it and so I'm like I've

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never seen this like who's going to hold the space for

14:07

me when I feel like a piece of crap and

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everyone's like you're not really a worship leader yet you're

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doing it in stadiums like what do you do with

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that you know and where are those men that are

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going to hold that with me and go dude keep

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doing it Yeah you doing so it's like it's like the problem

14:24

you saw that's the problem that you feel I'm gonna

14:26

go bring a solution to that because I haven't been

14:28

today absolutely I was like in this space there's no

14:32

man to hold tight to hold value for other men like to

14:37

go no don't do it different that's why we got

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so many and bowing down to you you know there's

14:42

a song that guy you know that I Kings Kaleidoscope he

14:45

has that line he's like he's like I'm just a

14:48

puppet to pastor and I'm like yeah like I'm cool

14:50

pastors I love leadership I love being around healthy leader

14:54

ship I will submit my life to healthy leader ship

14:56

but I'm also not gonna play games when I feel

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like I'm being run over or abused or especially when

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I see it happening to other men I'm like I'm

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not gonna stand for that like where are the men

15:07

we are the most dangerous man on earth with Christ

15:12

in our center filled with the Holy Spirit living in the

15:15

kingdom where we are completely unstoppable we don't need the

15:19

government we don't need to Politics we don't need any

15:21

of the stuff we are the dangerous ones and I'm

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like where are those people where are the men who

15:26

are convincing men of that like you're filled with the

15:29

spirit of the living God you are living in a

15:32

kingdom that's from another age like stop complaining over politics

15:36

man my kings on a throne forever like if we're still

15:39

trying to figure that out dude like no man if that's

15:42

a too small of a game for me and I'm

15:44

like I want to be the guy who shows up

15:46

and goes you go do this thing man you got

15:48

that on your heart go fail 20 times and I'll

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be there when you get back to remind you that

15:53

hurt didn't yeah and I'm a slap you on the

15:55

butt and you're gonna keep going you know and that to me

15:58

that's what I need it with love and tenderness not

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like you suck and I'm trying to take advantage of you

16:03

but dude go hard try something new see what happens

16:07

Have you heard about the unfair advantage challenge guys I

16:11

just released a brand new challenge it's totally free it's

16:15

an email experience you can sign up at the link

16:17

below now back to the episode yeah I love it

16:22

I mean that's the heart of a father like a

16:23

real father that's your cheerleader that your coach that's going

16:27

to encourage you and also correct you and say now

16:29

it's time to sit out let me tell you what

16:30

you just did wrong there too so I love him and you're

16:34

talking my language we're bringing up a few things here so

16:37

like let's just have the culture conversation for a minute

16:40

because we're talking about culture and I think I think

16:42

we're talking about church culture a little bit like how

16:45

are we doing with men right now like what's happening

16:48

what's the current state of men maybe we start big

16:51

culture first Jake like big culture in the world and

16:54

how is that affecting culture in the church cause we we

16:57

have a crisis on our hands and I want to hear

16:59

I wanna hear it from your perspective Yeah I mean

17:02

I think we have a mass the crisis the crisis

17:05

that we have is a disconnection from our deep mysterious

17:10

tension filled reality that we don't want to agree with

17:14

because we become a theory we become a theologically driven information

17:19

driven culture so that's why we have the issue with

17:22

media that's why we have the issue with all this because we don't

17:24

have men who can stand in tension and actually hold it

17:28

well like my whole thing that I tell men all

17:31

the times I'm like men go first that is the

17:34

marker of like a Christian man men go first but

17:38

not in systems and structures men go first in servant

17:42

in servant hood in sacrifice date shoes to show up

17:45

when no other man will show up and they will

17:47

hold the tension for those who cannot yet because they become pillars

17:53

and strengths because they can live in mystery intention and

17:57

we don't do that we live we live in complete

17:59

dualism we are like it's black It's white it's right

18:02

it's wrong it's God it's the devil it's it's too

18:05

much duality light all of us who have lived for

18:08

more than five minutes no that's not real yet when we

18:11

go into a church or we going to culture that's

18:14

what we're experiencing and the reason that the culture is

18:17

experiencing it is because that is what the church is

18:20

teaching the church historically was meant to hold the tension

18:25

and the space that culture itself could not hold that's

18:28

why we had priest that's why we had a monks

18:30

that's why we are desert fathers that's why we had these men who

18:33

lived in the tension men and women but we really as men

18:37

we held that space of tensions so well that it that

18:41

it eradicated fear and gave birth to some ridiculous faith

18:46

but we don't do that anymore we're not meant to

18:48

do that Worried about pornography and all that crap I'm

18:52

not worried about that those are just identity issues that

18:55

are like fruit I don't need to be pulling fruit

18:57

off peoples treats like I'm not that's not what I'm

19:00

here for you remove bad fruit but have bad roots

19:03

you're gonna get bad food again so we gotta deal

19:05

with some of the root issues with the hell I

19:07

am I never had a dad who is there like

19:10

most men never had a fathers name a deep father

19:13

wound what's a father wound a mother and a father

19:16

one or very easily describe mother and mother is supposed to be the

19:19

one who loves you unconditionally even when you suck so

19:22

when you suck mom goes you're amazing you're the greatest

19:25

thing that's ever been a dad is the first one

19:28

in love who chooses you so if you never felt shows

19:31

in or you don't feel preferred or you don't feel

19:34

like you can connect with men that as a father

19:37

and a bit very basic definition Wingo Way deep in

19:40

that stuff but the reality is were carrying those wounds

19:43

and we don't even know where we fit in because

19:45

we never have a dad go your chosen you're safe

19:49

You're good you suck in these areas we're gonna work

19:52

on it don't worry you're still ultimately love I pick

19:55

you and then I'm mom going you're the greatest thing ever

19:58

you're the best you can do no wrong you know

20:01

and if you never got that that's actually more damaging

20:04

than a father one because then you have no value system

20:07

to work from because you don't even know if you

20:09

just are loved in general and now when we do

20:12

that we start working overtime to get picked to get

20:15

preferred to get lunch and we're seeing that in culture so

20:19

my two things are we got duality living all over

20:21

the place cause we don't have a church that knows how

20:23

to hold tension we got rid of the Eucharist and

20:25

put in a pulpit and said my opinion is bigger

20:28

than the blood and body of Jesus Christ and then we

20:31

have on the other side we have this reality of

20:33

mother and father ones that we've never actually worked through

20:36

where I don't know who I am so I can't

20:39

hold tension and I don't know who I am on

20:40

the wonder culture as a whole and the church are

20:44

like totally jacked when raising up men yeah can you

20:47

explain the tension thing a little bit more To make

20:49

sure that the listeners and myself that I fully get

20:51

it in terms of what is the tension between what

20:53

are the two things that and what how is it

20:55

Xpress itself so in your life like there are we

21:00

end up having to put things in boxes right or

21:03

wrong good or bad those things like and it's just

21:05

easier for us all protection stop the problem is if

21:08

we're talking about God if we're going back to the

21:10

church first thing to culture we are talking about an eternal everlasting

21:14

God he breathed everything into being hold it all together

21:18

all the way down to the smallest nano nuclear value

21:22

systems that we don't understand yet and we're pretending on

21:26

Sundays through a few songs and a short sermon that we

21:28

get it now We understand that that is the biggest load

21:34

of junk I have ever heard like you don't get

21:37

it we don't understand God nobody's gonna get to heaven

21:40

I don't care how big your ministry is or how

21:42

many PhD 's you at your no one is going to

21:45

walk up to the man whose flames of his eyes

21:48

are flames of fire with a sword coming out of his

21:50

mouth feet like bronze white hair glowing like the sun

21:55

and he's like that's what I thought that's what I thought

21:58

just like I thought it's like no we're gonna get

22:01

there see him and go dude I had no idea

22:06

so first there's a tension of me and my creator

22:08

pretending like I understand something that is impossible for me

22:12

and my finiteness to understand then on top of that

22:16

how that plays out in my life is I have to

22:20

determine whether or not some thing is God before I

22:22

can do anything with it which is a massive problem

22:26

because I've got kids and young people are sitting around

22:28

doing nothing Literally nothing waiting on a word from the

22:33

Lord when your life was the word from the Lord do you know

22:37

Today that is the word you need it you've been

22:41

born when you could've been born in any time in humanist I just

22:44

heard this sad and I was like blown away by

22:46

over 4 7 00 people over nine generations had to

22:51

exist and survive and meet just for the DNA to get

22:56

into your body for us to be talking regular 4

22:58

7 00 people nine generations and you're not a miracle

23:03

dude You already won the lottery now just do something

23:07

with it don't waste it and that tension is me

23:10

going I'm trying to decide if it's right or wrong

23:13

or if it's the voice of the Lord before I

23:14

do anything and for me I'll tell you practically in

23:18

my life I believe in healing but I have a

23:20

daughter with cerebral palsy so I get two choices I can

23:23

either go well he doesn't heal and then build a

23:27

theology around it or I go he always heels in there must

23:31

be something wrong with me and I spend the rest

23:33

of my life cycling through deliverance ministries and fasting and

23:36

praying for some thing that I fully don't understand but it must

23:39

be my fault so it's not a faith issue or

23:42

this but I always talk to people about is it it's

23:44

magpie theology or magpie understand if you ever seen a

23:48

magpie if you look at a magpie from a distance

23:50

it is two colors it is black and it is

23:53

white The problem with getting up close to a magpie

23:57

is that it's blue as well but you don't see

23:59

it from far away and so we need the reality

24:02

of third way thinking we need a third option thinking

24:06

which is tension and mystery that it is the both and

24:10

the yes and no death and resurrection in the same

24:14

body in the same person in the same time death

24:17

and resurrection hold in one hand not to answer we like when

24:21

it's Good Friday and Easter But if not it's one experience

24:26

we will death and resurrection in our one hand that

24:30

is the reality of tension and mystery when I can

24:32

embrace the both and and not and feel the conflict

24:37

but embrace it like if I was to work through

24:41

either of our stories or what we do with men

24:43

all the time if we end up going let's go

24:45

back to your eight year old self OK you were

24:47

abused OK so now with the church that is go let's either get rid

24:52

of that so that you're a new creation in Christ

24:55

or we have to recognize I'm not supposed to get delivered

24:58

from the eight year old version of me Is actually a

25:01

part of who I am and it was bad and

25:04

it was wrong and I need to grieve it so

25:06

that it can be integrated into my life as a part

25:09

of who I am today like it actually made me

25:12

the way I am so I can I'm not saying

25:15

like we we we need to go make excuses for

25:19

our abusers what I'm saying is you can't get rid

25:22

of the fact that it happened to you so what

25:24

are you gonna do either live in the tension of it

25:27

makes me the man I am today or spend the

25:31

rest of your life going I'm not really worth much

25:33

because that happened to me Does that make sense yes

25:37

I totally get it right and I'm watching all these

25:39

men going what do I do with the eight year

25:41

old version of myself that was beat by his mom beat by

25:45

his dad abused in a Bandan what do I do with that

25:49

I'm like you grieve over it right so for me

25:51

it's the beatitudes so if you're if blessed are those who

25:55

mourn for they will be comforted right so the first

25:59

step I have to do intention is grief I have to actually

26:04

learn to grieve and mourn so that the parts of me that

26:07

are yet he'll not yet healed I can actually grieve

26:11

them and experience comforting in that place because if I

26:14

don't get comforted I'll settle for comfort and comfort I

26:17

can buy So comfort I can buy because that's just

26:20

escapism but I'm not getting comfort and I'm just paying for

26:24

comfort and that's it totally different ballgame medication that's my

26:29

medication right yeah so wow this is deep and I

26:33

think what you're explaining here I mean I I look at

26:35

this whole conversation and the work you're doing and what

26:37

you're explaining to me this is real discipleship this is

26:40

deep discipleship which which we don't see a lot right now

26:44

because you have to be super intentional you have to understand it

26:47

and you have to have some men in your life that

26:48

can help you process this because you just don't learn

26:51

this on your own this is talk to you somehow

26:54

and you're coached and instructed through it that's that that's

26:57

the process right now that we would like I said

26:59

earlier we're just trying to raise up those men so

27:01

that we can do that effectively with the next group

27:04

that's coming up right all right so let's let's get into

27:07

this let's talk about I mean I think you've given

27:10

us like pretty much the origin story but if there's

27:12

a missing piece because your story is a whole it's

27:15

all one story of like what made Jake and who

27:18

you are Or it's not and I totally resonate with the

27:21

boxes I talk about that all the time as men

27:23

were very good at building compartments there's my work box

27:27

there's my church box there's this yeah that's that's us up

27:31

for a lot of failure because we can act a certain way

27:33

in one place and then we can totally be another

27:35

person because we just have a different mask that we

27:37

put on for that box absolutely so so tell me

27:41

if there's if there's if you wanna take in a different

27:44

place but I wanna know if we can go right

27:46

into this mission of reclaiming masculinity is there more to

27:51

that I know there's a lot more but is there a

27:53

missing piece that we need to understand of this origin

27:55

story where this mission came from I think you've given

27:58

us a lot of where this mission was born from but I

28:01

want to talk about the mission itself why it's so

28:04

important and why it's something you're focused on right now

28:08

yeah I mean I honestly the way it started was

28:11

my kids were becoming teenagers and I did not know

28:14

how to grow up meant so I just really like ended up

28:17

going like I need to Figure this out because my

28:19

marriage is great so like we spent you know eight

28:23

or nine years just rebuilding our marriage focusing on it

28:27

and having the conversations doing the work and then I end

28:30

up in the spot where I was like OK I've

28:32

got two boys that are turning into 13 at 11

28:35

at the time and I was like I don't know

28:39

what do you do with them and nobody did anything

28:41

with me like I didn't nobody walked me into manhood

28:45

so what what is that crossover look like and that

28:49

lead me on a series of events some supernatural and

28:53

wild and some that are still progressing even today as

28:56

I'm figuring it out with free thinking children that I'm

29:01

not trying to control you know and I and the truth

29:04

is I can give you answers about kids come in

29:06

the middle of it so when people ask me I

29:08

can go hey this where I sock this room good I

29:11

feel like I'm doing affective in this area but in

29:14

all honesty ask me in 20 years you know because

29:17

that part with the kid Kid I don't really know

29:19

because I'm still trying I'm still trying stuff and I'm

29:22

just try to be faithful and what's in my hands but that

29:24

was that was the origin that led me to going

29:27

well if I'm a do it for my kids like

29:29

who's gonna do this with me well let's just put

29:31

a bunch of dysfunctional men are my garage and let's

29:34

see how this works out I love it and how

29:38

is it working out so far it's beautiful like for

29:41

us that we we use a couple things while I'll

29:44

give you the short version the short version is that

29:46

we in the midst of processing what I was looking

29:50

for for my wife and I we ended up coming

29:54

across something called the Allender theory by Danny Allender out of yes

29:59

I see it in Seattle Theological school or Seattle school

30:04

of theology something like that but Dan Allender he's mentioned

30:07

a ton of books I mean every book on sort

30:10

of Christian psychology he's a dude like he wrote board

30:13

love to be told God love sacs like there's he's

30:18

done a ton of stuff that's amazing amazing amazing but

30:22

I think we really adopt it was sort of story

30:23

work so we were using it in our marriage of

30:26

time and then found out how great it is to

30:29

use with men so we said well what if we

30:31

just get together in a bit of the premise is

30:33

simply that stick with out going into the whole how he

30:37

does Allender theory all that is basically we created our

30:41

version the simplified version for us as we do a

30:44

story map which means that you basically build a linear

30:48

story of your eyes and your lives with a middle lines of

30:50

zero is you know varied it's just normal then things

30:55

that were great things are terrible on a scale of one

30:58

to 10: 10 AM to kind of plot things over

30:59

the course of your story plot them on there A lot of

31:02

people have heard this is hills and valleys Victor Frankel

31:05

actually came up with that and we utilize that tool just to

31:09

get the primer like going and then we ask men

31:11

to do is pick one of those stories and write

31:14

8 00 to 1 000 words on that story that

31:17

specific space not all the stuff around it not this

31:21

is literally I'm using this to tell you about my

31:23

mom you know no it's like the whole thing is

31:26

based around this moment and then in that moment the

31:28

man reads the story because writing it out and reading

31:31

it in front of a group of men is terrifying

31:34

humbling vulnerability enters and grieving starts to enter and it's

31:37

very rare I have any man that does this to any

31:41

degree there's I've never seen a man not cry like

31:45

this just not I mean men that don't cry like

31:47

I haven't cried in 20 years you know And so they

31:50

took because they're having to look at it and they look

31:53

at it and they share it and then this group

31:54

of men we called is hold space for them creates

31:57

containment is our Islanders language we provide containment for them

32:01

and then we ask questions so it's just hey I

32:05

heard you say this what does that mean to you

32:07

hey this tell me about that so you know when

32:09

we work through that well in that process what did it

32:13

happening was I ran into something called the work which

32:17

is a documentary that changed my life John Tysons primal

32:21

path him and then the book iron John by Robert

32:26

Bly that was the catalyst to iron John by Robert

32:29

Blyth really was the catalytic connecting piece between all of

32:34

these things because what he did was connect mythological understanding

32:39

and historical rights of passage to modern sort of tools

32:45

for how do we do this in a group of

32:47

men that which then connect me to the mankind And project which if

32:51

you ever heard of but all of that stuff started coming at me

32:54

at once and we just used our Wednesday nights as sort

32:58

of a place to practice so anything we learned we

33:01

would just shop in the room and we would go

33:03

OK let's try this you know and it would be a

33:07

total crap show most the time because you don't know

33:09

what you're doing it's like again just like the guitar

33:12

stuff I had a tool I had space so I'm

33:16

just like let's try it and what happened was our

33:19

circle kept growing and so now we do entire weekends

33:22

for it but that was really the catalytic stuff that

33:25

sort of sent us into the space awesome yeah I'm

33:30

very I'm very familiar with everything you're explaining so I

33:33

think this is so needed so deep and it's missing right

33:35

now it really is a missing piece And you know

33:39

you know what Jake the worlds got it the world has

33:41

it in some of their programs and I've seen it

33:43

there and I was like wow we need that so

33:45

I'm glad that you're your bring this in redeeming it and putting

33:49

in the proper contacts because it does get weird there's

33:52

a lot of personal development coaching programs in the world that use

33:55

a lot of this stuff but then I always walk away saying

33:58

OK I can keep that that was totally wrong I

34:00

didn't participate in this part because they get a little

34:03

mystical they get a little bit weird I've seen that

34:06

firsthand And I think in the men's space total even with

34:09

the conversation we're having here I mean there's so many

34:11

people because right now the gap is real and the

34:15

world showing us like yeah there's an issue here there's

34:17

a gap and we have worldly secular coaches people with

34:21

different ideas they're not godly and then a Christian guy

34:25

doesn't have a lot of places to go and he's asked to listen

34:29

but then they're always left in the state of tension

34:31

a bad tension a state of confusion of OK I

34:35

like that there's something that's resonating it's pulling on my

34:38

heart but at the same time like I got to

34:40

get over this issue and there's something kind of sinful

34:43

here and this is weird and they just it's a

34:45

state of confusion so I love I love what you're

34:48

doing do you wanna comment on that a little bit

34:50

because I mean I always go to what Jesus says you

34:52

know he says take heed to how you hear and

34:55

so I'm a big believer that we just can't hit

34:58

subscribe to any one that comes across our feed that we

35:01

have to really guard what voices and who we really listen

35:05

to especially as we go down the path Of doing

35:08

some deep work yeah I think I'm roar actually talked

35:11

about it like the cleanest that I've seen because he had his whole

35:14

work started roar started everything was men stuff I mean if

35:17

you read Adam 's return wisemen to wild Minda Wiseman the

35:24

quest for the grill like all these books that he

35:27

wrote on masculinity rites of passage all these things one

35:30

of the things that he sort of lands on in

35:32

this was from I just might've been early 90s as

35:36

he's like is he basically just said and he was

35:39

commenting on all the massive movements at that time cause

35:41

you talking promise keepers all that stuff now it's something

35:43

really decent to offer from the mythopoetic men's movement with

35:47

Robert Bly knows guys to promise keepers doing the stadium

35:50

stuff all awesome but really what it comes down to

35:54

is you have to have a try two things you have to

35:57

have a tribe of 30 and I Danny Martin Shaw he

36:00

always says that if you can't be seen effectively by

36:03

30 you'll try to get seen by 30 million and

36:07

that really is what we're watching we're watching a ton

36:09

of men who haven't been seen by 30 which is

36:12

the size of a stereotypical tribe and so they're spending

36:16

their lives trying to get seen by 30 million and

36:19

so there's the missing piece of being seen by 30

36:22

dudes and then the other part is if I am

36:25

not radically and ridiculously anchored to Jesus Christ none of it

36:30

has stay in power and I tell me this listen and

36:33

this is again I am the The again the weirdo

36:36

fringe guy I'm like if that things moving you go

36:38

but don't stop go to you it's weird and I

36:41

know it's actually jacked up but you're getting something from

36:44

it keep going is those who seek will eventually find

36:47

so if you land on some thing and you get

36:50

you're gonna get stuck just like everyone else you're gonna

36:53

be stuck in some weird like circular thinking masculinity weird

36:58

thing that points to know where he turn off so of course it's

37:02

gonna fracture and leave you more damage than when it

37:05

when you start it because at the end of the

37:07

day if it's not anchored to eternity who cares like

37:10

it Hass to be anchored in Christ in Christ alone

37:13

the man Jesus Christ must be at the center that was

37:18

awesome I meant you spent three days telling parsable and the

37:21

quest for the holy Grail 12 meant over three days

37:24

but we don't do that anymore like we don't get

37:27

around fire pits until stories but stories were the corporate

37:31

Wiebe tribe and then my story begin to makes Sense

37:34

as the singular I in the midst of doing that

37:37

but because my center is Christ I get to tell

37:40

the story from a perspective that most people want and

37:43

multiple don't even know that half the story was written

37:45

by a knight and half the story was written by

37:47

a priest so no wonder it has such a beautiful

37:50

holy language in it based around the grail that I

37:54

love the description of it again it's the tension because

37:57

it's the grail is described as a rock who held

38:00

intention the dark and the light in that holy space

38:04

of tension gave abundance to the earth and I'm like

38:08

I love that like those that language is stuff we

38:11

don't even use anymore you know I mean we're like give me

38:14

the next teaching five steps to being a better man and

38:16

12 steps in another father Good father another 2 5

38:20

steps and I'll be a good husband is like now you're probably

38:23

gonna suck most the time as me really painful sorry about it like

38:26

that's just the way it works but here's a really

38:28

great story to help you see yourself so you don't

38:31

feel alone in it yeah but we left formulas man

38:34

we don't want story what formulas do you know formula Jesus

38:38

man there's just no formula it's like when we were

38:40

even trying to get people saved by a prayer you

38:42

know how I feel about that I'm like come on

38:45

man I'm gonna enter into eternity after with a repeat

38:48

after me like karaoke Jesus you know I mean like

38:51

we could all confused when there's no words on the

38:53

screen we hate tension we hate mystery but our life

38:58

exposes us to it constantly and that reality of being Christ

39:03

centered living in mystery intention allows me to be your voice to

39:06

places no one else gets to be a voice This is so

39:11

good man yeah I love this just kind of like

39:13

as a time out real quick I'll tell you like

39:14

I've I've done some deep work with I first got

39:17

exposed to it like in a secular program and was like this

39:20

was amazing this needs to be Christian I somehow this

39:23

needs to be done differently and as I'm kind of

39:26

building my own things and just kind of you know

39:28

exploring with the Lord putting on me I heard about

39:31

another Christian thing I kind of smirked at one thing you

39:34

said because I was explaining it to my uncle is a

39:37

pastor he's like oh you want to do that he

39:39

goes oh that's like this group I'm like what's that

39:41

group I never heard about it is I got a

39:42

check it out the sky knows it so like I'll

39:44

just go to it so I'm fresh off a weekend

39:47

I just did a weekend retreat Add to the wrist

39:50

30 guys there's 30 gas exactly what it was the same

39:56

chassis of what I did in the like more personal

39:59

development program is the same exact chassis different exercises and

40:02

totally redeemed in theologically a biblically sound like oh yeah

40:08

now I know I see what they did their yeah

40:10

so awful and itself mean there's loads of stuff out

40:13

there and that's a I have to go and just stay in my

40:17

lane cause I mean we're doing 12 guys at a

40:19

time because it's it we're gonna move and we're gonna

40:22

even shrink it we're going down to eat it doesn't pay

40:24

the bills dude yeah pay the bill from the guys

40:27

at a time you have to just on it and believing

40:30

it to such a degree you like I'm gonna get

40:31

this awesome OK so Jake tell me tell me about

40:34

the fight because your name your name what you're doing

40:37

the fight you have fight weekend so I'm gonna start

40:40

with a really simple question yeah Who are we fighting

40:44

what are we fighting what are we fighting for other sort

40:47

of key to the fight is we go we're looking

40:49

for one man one man equals one marriage equals one

40:53

family which means we got one generation and so we

40:57

are most of the time fighting ourselves and so I

41:01

love Raz language again these guys I just read a ton

41:04

and he says the first half of your life you

41:06

fight the devil the second half of the life your

41:08

life you find God And I like I just love

41:11

that language cause on your heroes journey you're just fighting

41:14

the devil everything is this upward climb you know and

41:18

he even jokes that you know if you give a

41:20

young man the Cross Hill just use it as another ego

41:22

pursuit which were seeing a lot and so there's a lot of us

41:25

fighting ourselves in fighting tension and fighting our story and fighting and

41:30

fighting and fighting and some of it's really great but

41:33

we have to recognize that if we're gonna actually fight the

41:37

fight for our family we got a fight the version

41:40

of ourselves that we've been presenting to everyone else for

41:43

decades and we have to watch him die yeah we have to

41:46

watch the imposter the shadow whatever name you want to

41:49

give it a Brennan many calls it the imposter from Arby's child

41:53

one of the best chapters of any book I ever read

41:57

And then you know young and sort of background would be

42:01

shadow you know some people call it different things but

42:04

I'm just like we're fighting the version of ourselves that

42:07

isn't authentic and where our weakness crosses our experience that's

42:12

where we'll find our real vulnerability and what I'm trying

42:15

to do is fight mend through the imposter and through the

42:19

shadow to get a picture of who they really are

42:22

because they don't know what they're fighting so they end

42:25

up fighting everyone else except for the imposter so they're

42:29

fighting their wife they're fighting their kids they're fighting some

42:32

fight out in culture and it doesn't mean anything because

42:35

it's not really fighting the thing that really matters you

42:39

know and doing the wrestling that it takes to get

42:42

a new name that's so good what's the consequences of

42:45

a guy who doesn't take this work on your neck It's this

42:48

piece like what happens I love you I think we're seeing it yeah

42:52

if you can this is the way it works I

42:53

mean you can go to 1 000 bucks on the stop

42:56

and they all have different language for the same thing

42:58

every young boy begins in the assent like they begin

43:02

in a hero at heroic journey not the Joseph Campbell

43:06

heroes journey that's a different piece but we are like

43:08

on a heroic ascent that's basically the ages of zero

43:11

to like even into your 30s right so like we

43:14

can get all the way into our 30s now somewhere

43:17

in there if we should be experiencing an initiation so

43:20

in initiation in the midst of our heroic journey humbles

43:23

us to become protectors and providers from the culture from

43:26

which we came OK so every initiatory experience was me knowing

43:30

the story of my tribe knowing the unique identity of

43:34

myself I mean some like you know VisionQuest type Native American

43:37

stuff they couldn't return until they heard their new name

43:41

from the great spirit which I love that language super

43:44

offensive to Christianity until we read revelation and we realize

43:48

that he Gonna give us a stone that has our

43:50

name written on it to step in the name we

43:51

were always supposed to be called so all of these

43:53

things crash into each other and what we do is we

43:56

continue on that ascent until we hit sort of a

43:59

midlife point what roar calls the crisis of limitation right end up

44:03

recognizing that I no longer I'm going to be able

44:06

to accomplish all I set out to do in my

44:08

life and part of the things I thought I'd become

44:11

I don't have time for any more so I hit this

44:14

crisis of limitation resource page energy all that stuff right until I get

44:18

three choices at that point and this is the key

44:21

right here what happens to a man who actually takes

44:24

this on embraces weakness intention mystery in their middle life

44:28

gets three out of three things that either become an old fool

44:32

basically saying I'm gonna continue on my heroes journey until

44:34

I'm 80 well now you're no help to anybody because

44:38

you continue that I sent in order to do it

44:41

in the amount of limited Energy and limited space and limited

44:46

time that you have you end up shutting everyone else down

44:49

because the only way to continue ascending is you got

44:51

50 60 70 80 year old men were building structures that hold

44:56

everyone else below them because they are still trying to

44:58

be on their heroic journey that ended three decades ago

45:01

but they're not willing to give it up you know

45:04

now for those that are like wow I have I'm

45:06

limited my life sucks it's over they begin in the

45:10

embittered journey so we have an old four or we have

45:13

a better fourth Their food is like this life sucks it's all awful

45:18

everyone's gonna die and you're all you're all gonna burn

45:22

in hell Didn't get anything you wanted to work out for him and

45:27

he wasn't willing to die before he died now the

45:30

third option is a good one the third option is the

45:32

way of the cross the third option says I am now

45:35

limited by time and space and resource and energy I'm

45:40

limited in all of these areas and I'm going to

45:43

embrace it because if I die before I die I

45:46

never have to die this is where I begin the leading

45:49

the letting go process I just keep leading up a man

45:52

who does this well by the end of his life

45:55

has already practiced dying so much that by the time

45:59

his physical body is ready to cross over he fully

46:02

embraces it without fear and with total courage because he's

46:06

already spent the second half of his life giving his resource

46:09

away giving his life away so by the time he

46:12

reaches the doors By the time he gets to that

46:16

space he's already he's good because he did it all

46:20

he gave it all away he didn't spend the second

46:22

half of his life still trying to build something for

46:25

God or for his family for whatever he invested it into

46:29

the people that were right in his meds and so

46:31

he can walk away totally clean knowing that he's going

46:35

to hear well done I love it man this is

46:38

such a great conversation we're going deep this is him

46:41

you know honestly you can't get into this conversation easily

46:44

it's not easily accessible because it's not being had in a lot of

46:47

places the stuff that you're talking about the dialogue it's

46:51

just like honestly I've come across this work in the

46:55

last couple years and it's really changed me and it's

46:58

a progression right and never stop I have some intentionality app but yeah

47:03

but so many men don't even know and we just

47:05

get a superficial Christianity we get a superficial understanding and

47:09

three point sermons and my formula but still not working

47:13

for me and then we're struggling and we end up

47:15

becoming one of the three guys you just described right

47:18

and what's hard about it is men are entering into

47:20

this journey with enough shame and guilt and soda than stack on

47:24

a three point sermon or a five point project they're not really

47:27

gonna get out of it what they want the claims are like

47:30

this actually is real work this actually is real dying this

47:33

is actually real engagements real integration it's real diving into

47:37

like we said these men on the beach this weekend in

47:41

The first night we didn't go straight to the house

47:43

we ended up having this really magical beautiful moment we're

47:47

across this lake we were at like started having a

47:49

thunder and lightning storm like across the lake and we're

47:53

sitting on this beach had to walk 1 50 yards

47:56

across it and we're sitting barefoot sitting in this space and

48:00

watching thunder on one side and lightning and the other

48:03

crystal clear sky and saying this is where we will

48:06

sit we are entering into this with knowing there's a

48:11

storm on one side clear-cut clear sky on the other and

48:14

we're gonna sit in this tension we're gonna sit in

48:17

this mystery we're gonna sit in the uniqueness of this

48:19

moment knowing that what I am actually created for already

48:23

lies inside of me it's just buried under shame and

48:26

guilt it's been buried under shame and guilt for so

48:29

long that we don't even know how to access it

48:31

anymore and I we talk about it as a Robert

48:33

Blaize language is the long bad we drive behind us

48:36

so we were born Alice Miller talks about in her

48:39

book at the drama to gift a child Talks about

48:42

how are born with 3 60 ° of radiance everywhere

48:46

we don't know like little kids just beaming but our

48:50

entire lives part of that light keeps getting sly stop he be quiet

48:54

he be good hey we don't act like that then you

48:56

throw like abuse or triggers or molestation or any of

48:59

the really big stuff she start chopping off the lights by

49:02

the time we're in our 20s we got this like

49:05

we were born 3 60 radiance we were a light on

49:08

the hill a city that cannot be hidden then were

49:12

left with like a sliver but where did all those

49:14

other versions of me go well they all got tossed

49:17

in a bag I've been dragging for 20 years I've

49:20

been dragging since I was 4 5 6 7 8

49:22

it's versions of me that I actually am but they didn't

49:27

give me the love and acceptance I actually needed to

49:29

survive so I chopped them off threw them in a

49:32

bag and I've been dragging around for 20 30 years

49:35

now we know why men are tired in their 50s

49:37

and 60s because they've never done any of the work

49:40

of Blake Re-fork the shadow work behind there to actually

49:44

open that bag up and deal with what's in there

49:46

who I really am so they're getting like 40 50 60

49:49

night I'm tired as hell man I don't need five

49:52

points give me authenticity somebody tell me how to open

49:56

this bag get that energy out of that bag get it

50:00

back into my life so I can end fully me

50:03

I don't need another project I don't need another cop

50:06

I don't need hype I need somebody to look me

50:08

in the eyes and go dude what you just said

50:10

is bull crap That is wrong man and I'm not

50:14

gonna let you buy that anymore open that bag and let's talk about

50:18

what's in there let's do the hard work and then

50:20

all the sudden they get invigorated their energy dude every man this

50:24

weekend was like I have never felt more seen in

50:26

my whole life this is the deepest I've ever been

50:29

in my whole life and it's happening in their 40s

50:33

5 6 dude we can't we cannot sit by and

50:39

let men drag these bags waste their energy and slaughter

50:43

their families in the name of an imposter that's living

50:46

their life because their light got cut off when they

50:49

were 6 7 8 9 10 we got to get

50:53

that stuff back and we have to help them that is

50:56

our job as men who are doing this we don't

51:00

have all the answers great good you know what somebody needs they

51:03

don't need answers they don't need fixing no man wants

51:06

to be fixed you're just gonna piss him off don't

51:09

try to fix man sit with the man and ask him if you Actions

51:12

that are really hard and let him squirm in his

51:15

chair and stay silent until he answers that's coaching right there

51:19

that's it yeah and it's been that kind of work

51:23

in a holy space with the right tools right there's

51:28

nothing a man can't do with that let's address this

51:31

real quick because for for listeners I don't know where

51:33

everybody's at as they hear this and I just wanna

51:36

talk about you know someone might be listening to this

51:40

I don't know their age and the faith or aware

51:42

where they come from or who is listening at one

51:44

point in the future Someone might be thinking hey I

51:47

thought all that stuff got fixed when I got saved

51:50

like isn't that what Jesus does so can you look

51:53

up like to hear your perspective because we're talking about the

51:56

soul realm and the staff the trauma the junk that

51:59

hurts the wounds and I'll let you I'll let you

52:03

some that up for anyone that's that might have that thought

52:05

like hey I thought it was good because you are

52:08

good but you still have some stuff we have to deal

52:10

with because every time every time we do this they're

52:14

like wait wait a minute There's not covered in the

52:18

blood and I'm like well look at it this way Jesus

52:20

died to save you from your sin not your story

52:24

OK and here's the best example I can give you

52:26

and it works for me which is this twofold number

52:31

one Jesus so let's first talk about death and darkness

52:35

which is become an enemy of the church and it's

52:38

not an enemy it's actually a friend and actually all

52:41

the best miracles in Scripture happened in the dark Jesus

52:44

was raised from the dead in the dark of the

52:45

cave but let's start there so Jesus gets out of the

52:49

cave we all know the story he the tomb the

52:51

stone in front of the tomb is rolled away correct So

52:54

then now to now two chapters later he walks through a

52:58

wall to go be with his friends correct so so

53:02

resurrected body Jesus can walk through walls so why didn't

53:06

he just walk out of the tube with the stones still there

53:11

well what if it wasn't rolled away so that he

53:14

could get out so bad but so that we could

53:16

get in what if we were actually supposed to die

53:20

with Christ what if we were actually supposed to get another empty

53:23

tomb and lay down with him and let him resurrect

53:26

us because the hard part is my sin has been

53:29

covered but my story is still real So I don't

53:32

have to pay the cost of the repercussions of my life

53:35

but it is still my life it is still my

53:38

story it is still the reality and people are like well yeah

53:41

but that doesn't make sense OK when Jesus does get resurrected

53:45

does walk through the wall what does he keep what's the

53:49

only thing Jesus keeps from pre- resurrection Scars

53:56

that's all he keeps the only man-made thing in heaven

53:59

is Jesus 's scars and what does he use those

54:01

scars for to destroy doubt so no wonder we're not

54:06

doing a good job of destroying doubt we're busy hiding

54:09

our scars we can't destroy doubt with good theology we

54:12

can't destroy fear with good theology we can't destroy any

54:16

of the shame and guilt that people are experiencing with

54:19

a nice worship song is a three point sermon we

54:21

cannot do it you know what does it Here's my scars

54:26

look been there I love that reality because my scars are

54:33

what show off his goodness and we're busy saying got

54:36

delivered from that no that's a different than still having

54:40

them on your body and showing them off yes I

54:45

have been healed from the repercussions of what those scars

54:48

mean for Jesus they should've met death well now they

54:50

mean life he redeems the entire narrative so that you

54:55

become the handiwork of God and one of the best

54:58

one of the best moments of this for me was

55:00

in a San Francisco airport sitting at the bar with these

55:03

two guys from London watching a football game and I

55:06

need an actual American football game at two guys from

55:08

London Bela being bankers we strike up a conversation I'll give

55:12

you this very short version and I go we're having

55:14

this literally like little dialogue sitting there just hanging out And

55:19

they go eventually you know I've asked them their bankers

55:21

what are you do they ask me I go I travel

55:23

playing music in churches I also work with men do

55:26

a lot of like I do lotta inner work with men using Christ at the

55:29

center of the whole deal and the other one of

55:31

the two guys leans over and he's like hey I'm

55:35

an atheist just so you know I'm like oh man didn't really

55:38

ask but we're great you know good idea You've been

55:43

to this part of my God I've been alone action of the

55:45

Spartans pop in to this church in his church he's like oh

55:47

my gosh so crazy and I guess you look how do

55:49

you get into that I was like oh well my

55:51

daughter was diagnosed with Shiva palsy and it kind of

55:53

sent me on this journey me and my wife and

55:54

my family and immediately the atheist pizza and he goes

55:58

you'll see that's why I won't believe in God because

56:00

you're chill your daughter won't because your daughter can't walk

56:04

and children are starving in Africa that's what he said

56:07

and I said OK sweet do you mind if I

56:09

address those first the big one then the personal one

56:12

and I he's like yeah yeah whatever you know I

56:14

said sweet you're a baker is there enough money on planet

56:18

earth to take care of every human being he goes yeah

56:21

I go OK is there enough food on planet earth for

56:24

everyone to get enough calories so that no one will start

56:27

he says yes absolutely and then I asked him this

56:29

question then who's fault is it Dude starts crying while

56:34

it's ours and I said no it's not it's yours

56:37

make it personal I'm not a banker I don't have

56:40

your money you have your money have you have any kids

56:42

in Africa did you pay for my daughter surgeries did

56:45

you do any of that no it's your fault and

56:48

now let's take it let's take it personal I said

56:51

my daughter was born with cerebral palsy diagnosed at 15 months

56:54

we went through a ton of work trying to figure

56:56

out who God was in the process that got fired

56:59

from my church ended up starting our prayer wrote some songs

57:01

of the house of prayer those got picked up by

57:03

a label ended up going in traveling the world for

57:06

for five years and up still traveling to travel to

57:08

this day oh my gosh I traveled onto today my plane

57:12

was delayed I'm not supposed to be here so I

57:14

end up traveling being here now sitting with you telling you

57:17

about God and the way you've never heard of them

57:19

before now when you go home and you accept Jesus

57:22

cause you're going to after this all happens you're gonna

57:24

make him lord and savior of your life when you

57:26

get to heaven and you meet my daughter for the

57:28

first time because you'll be a creditor that you'll be

57:31

on her credit in Not mine she's the one that

57:33

had to couldn't walk all those years when you get

57:35

to happen and you look at my daughter walking in

57:37

perfect perfect restoration and she walks up to you and

57:40

says welcome in do you think she's gonna be bummed about bummed

57:43

out about the 60 to 80 years she walked on

57:46

earth with not walking and knowing that the price of

57:48

her not walking is your salvation eternally and forever in

57:51

heaven with Jesus Christ wow so powerful dude he lost it and

57:58

I'm like I'm gonna get you to prepare to go talk

58:00

to Jesus when you get back to your hotel room

58:02

tonight please real so when you can talk to him he'll

58:04

talk back but the point is we're not making any

58:08

of those connections we're going God delivered Me Again we're

58:12

back to the duality conversation it's the simple nope Jesus blood

58:16

it's all covered Isabella not look at your old me I was abused

58:20

like hell man you gotta look that kid in the

58:22

mirror and you gotta look at him and deal with

58:25

the repercussions of abuse abandonment rape all of the addictions

58:31

you have to look yourself in the mirror and know that

58:34

that stuff made you who you are today but because

58:38

of the blood of Jesus you don't have to face any

58:41

of the ramifications ramifications or repercussions of that because you

58:44

got redemption instead that's the best news Jake that's amazing

58:49

that's amazing story I'm gonna leave it right there I

58:52

have I have to get to something else before you wrap

58:55

up because I want you to tell the people that

58:57

are listening I want you to talk about the fight

59:00

how people connect with you so really drop those links below but

59:02

before we do just one other thing that I wanna

59:06

know about your day today as a man do you

59:10

have any daily disciplines any things that you do part

59:14

of this to pull through anything that I'm always into

59:17

you know we're here we wanna we wanna be high

59:20

performers we want to maximize what we have and it

59:23

all comes down to routine ritual what we do who

59:25

we are how we perform every day so I'm just

59:28

curious if you could share a little bit about your

59:29

routines your rituals what you do on a daily basis

59:32

that power your mission and power what you're doing Absolutely

59:36

I probably it's going to be some of the same thing you

59:38

guys probably all would say I get up at 5

59:42

AM I head straight to the gym I basically and I don't

59:46

work out crazy hard I am doing it to keep

59:49

my body moving and to like really just keep some

59:52

flexibility so I do about 4 5 minutes of weightlifting

59:56

different focus on different parts of the body than I

59:58

do swimming I swim a mile then I jump in

60:01

the pool some of my own that's how I end

60:03

come home and then I do my meditation time so I sit

60:06

in meditation take communion almost every morning And when I

60:10

say meditation I mean the really contemplative prayer so I will repeat

60:15

phrases or I mean really simple wants to you know

60:18

Jesus Christ of God have mercy on me a sinner you

60:21

know I mean I really like Will will meditate just

60:23

let it sit on my body I'm really really big

60:26

on like we have to like we we have to start recognizing

60:31

like it's one thing that to push weights and to do

60:33

working out it's another to be in touch with you with

60:35

your physical body that's a whole different ball game and

60:38

I wanna be in touch with this thing so I

60:40

want it I wanna listen to it so sleep in

60:43

those things and then like most guys like who do

60:46

this stuff long-term and psycho then cold shower so like Wim

60:49

Hof that if you know what I mean so like

60:51

I'm just in the cold shower try to hold in there

60:53

for a minute try to regulate my breathing and get

60:56

really focused and then I'll start my workday with a

61:00

podcast or book something that'll keep my brain moving And

61:04

then I jump in to work and I pretty much break for

61:06

lunch every day with my wife because I work at

61:08

home and so we do and then I'm done like

61:12

right now I'll be done usually I go till three

61:14

or four but I stayed up with you but that's

61:16

like we have a pretty hard cut time 90 %

61:19

of the time so that the rest of the evening

61:21

I just spent with family I appreciate this man this

61:24

is really valuable to me I love you bro this

61:26

is a powerful conversation and we are biohacking with Jake

61:30

Hamilton I love it cold showers breathing Biblical meditation yeah man

61:36

that's the way we live that sets the crew that

61:38

we got listening to us so this conversation is crazy

61:42

valuable you Jake bring a song by just telling us where

61:45

people can connect with you will drop all the links

61:47

below but if people wanna learn more about what you

61:49

do what you got coming up and hey I don't

61:51

know maybe there's a special announcement you're working on a

61:53

project or there's something on the music side do you

61:55

wanna share you can do whatever you want yeah I

61:58

mean honestly right now we take a little break towards

62:01

the end of the year we are currently when we're

62:03

recording this but we have what I what was was

62:06

coming up for next year as we do a few things

62:08

every year we're gonna we're doing a fight summit which

62:10

comes in January so that's sort of our larger gathering

62:13

we're men can come and learn about story learn about

62:16

mythology sort of it it's just a primer like hey

62:18

if you're interested that's a place to go fight some

62:21

at January just want to be in Redding it's like the

62:23

third week of January find all of it at the

62:25

links below all the websites have all the information then

62:29

from there we do a three times a year we

62:31

do courage course in Mantock Monday courage to call This is

62:35

basically 15 16 day pre- recorded dialogue we have a

62:39

private Facebook group we kind of just go after dialogue

62:41

in the biblical foundations of masculinity very very basic especially a lot of

62:46

people who follow me are in that sort of space so

62:49

it's a nice bridge to kind of go he lets

62:52

dialogue about some of these things but completely from scripture

62:55

and then we jump to man talk Mondays but we

62:57

only take 15 guys or we took 18 this last

63:00

time it was a lot so about 15 18 guys live

63:04

zoom every week for eight weeks so we all jump

63:07

on we check in that's where we start introducing the

63:10

deep works of some of the inner work some of the story

63:13

work some of the like what does it mean to

63:14

carry a long bag what does that look like what

63:16

what is shadow work what is grief work what does

63:19

it mean to actually do that work as a man

63:21

on a regular basis and not just show up to

63:23

the conference in the height then the below that is

63:26

really what we're like what we do that's arc sort

63:29

of core is the fight weekend and a fight weekend

63:32

we only take 8 to 12 guys max Them and

63:35

we we it's like all expense paid you just get

63:38

there we cover everything else you show up with the

63:41

story having watched the work and we dive in like

63:44

basically over the course of two days we do maybe

63:47

12 to 14 hours of like really deep intense story

63:53

work where men get to open up and be cared

63:56

for and contained possibly for some of the salmon very first time and

64:00

so that's kind of the big stuff and then this year

64:03

which nobody knows about yet we're gonna be doing our

64:05

first fight we can fight fight weekend one flesh so

64:09

we're gonna be doing our first marriage weekend with eight

64:11

couples in Napa Valley And we've got like a really

64:15

dope set up with their with cottages in a whole

64:17

thing but we're gonna be doing a lot of the story work

64:19

stuff with couples so me and my wife will go

64:22

in hopes that we're just gonna go after I just

64:24

see healthy and he'll marriages so but that's where the

64:27

plan but all that stuff you can find out more

64:29

information at this is the fight .com or fight weekend

64:33

.org awesome any last words for men guys listening close

64:38

it out every meeting with its this it's this book

64:42

called the blessing it's originates with a woman Native American woman

64:47

from the north east of North America from the eagle clan

64:51

her name is pocket niece and she said this at

64:54

the end of the podcast I have adopted it as we called

64:57

the blessing and it is you are the evidence of

65:00

the strength of your ancestors There are many things within

65:03

your lineage that attempted to obliterate all forms of goodness

65:09

but you are the living proof that it did not

65:14

work wow we're gonna leave it right there Jake it's been an honor

65:19

guys until next time let's raise the standard hey guys

65:23

my name is Josh Kachadorian on the author of the book the

65:27

standard discovering Jesus as the standard for masculinity and I

65:31

just put together a brand new challenge for you the

65:34

ambitious Christian man if you're in business if you want

65:37

to reach your full capacity if you

65:39

wanna unlock your potential I need to tell you there is an unfair advantage that is available to

65:44

all Christian men but not all access

65:48

it that's why I put together this free 11 day email challenge click the

65:54

link below sign up for the challenge and you

65:56

will get equipped with the knowledge the resources and everything you need to take your I miss land

66:03

and learn how to partner with your unfair advantage can't

66:06

wait to see you in the challenge

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