Shownotes
State of the Second hosts John and Kaylee sit down with Alex Brodsky, a marketing professional who has spent about eight years across the firearms industry, including time working for an 80% company. Born in the former Soviet Union and now living in California, Alex brings a perspective most guests don't. He left right before the Iron Wall came down, and he uses that history to explain what life looks like when citizens rely entirely on the government for protection and have no real voice. The conversation centers on the ATF and its habit of changing definitions, with Alex drawing a direct line between that pattern and the month-to-month rule changes he watched under communism.
Much of the episode digs into 80% receivers and pistol braces, products the ATF once reviewed and approved, then later moved to ban or re-regulate. Alex talks about the pride and ownership people felt building their own firearms, often as a weekend project with a son, and how those moments carry a generational weight. Kaylee ties it back to text, history and tradition, the Bruin decision, and Gun Owners Foundation's video laying out the long history of braced handguns. They cover the real cost to the industry: confusion, a chilling effect on sales, and companies getting hit in the pocketbooks because consumers think a gray area means they should stop buying.
The back half turns to action and education. They cover GOA's preliminary national injunction that covers members on the brace issue, the David Chipman nomination fight, the lead ammo and green tip ammo comment battles, New Mexico's carry suspension, the proposed rule redefining who counts as a firearms dealer, banking surveillance and a de facto registry, red flag laws, and the Liberty Safes incident. Alex's recurring message is that your voice matters and the reason it isn't heard is that people aren't using it right. Change is a grassroots effort that starts with educating friends and family. Both hosts share personal stories, a college conversation that turned a skeptic into a range partner and Alex's aunt who bought a Glock 19 after being mugged, as proof that personal experience and education move people. The episode closes with a reminder to join GOA for $25 a year at gunowners.org.
Questions this episode answers
Why does the ATF keep changing its definitions of legal products like 80% receivers and pistol braces?
Alex Brodsky argues the ATF reviews and approves products like 80% receivers and pistol braces, then later moves to ban or re-regulate them, which shifts lawmaking power away from Congress to the executive branch. He compares the month-to-month pattern to the arbitrary rule changes he saw living in the Soviet Union.
What are 80% receivers, and why does building your own firearm matter to gun owners?
80% receivers are unfinished components people use to build their own firearms, often as a weekend project. Brodsky describes the pride and ownership owners feel completing a build, sometimes alongside a son, and the generational weight those moments carry.
How does growing up in the Soviet Union shape how Alex Brodsky sees American gun rights?
Born in the former Soviet Union and leaving right before the Iron Wall fell, Brodsky watched citizens rely entirely on the government with no real voice. He uses that history to argue why holding government accountable matters, since it works for the people, not the other way around.
Does contacting your senators and representatives actually make a difference?
Brodsky's recurring message is that your voice matters and the reason it goes unheard is that people aren't using it correctly. The episode points to the David Chipman nomination fight and the lead and green tip ammo comment battles as places where public pressure mattered.
What does Gun Owners of America's preliminary injunction on the pistol brace ban mean for members?
The hosts cover Gun Owners of America's preliminary national injunction that covers GOA members on the pistol brace issue. They tie the brace fight to text, history and tradition, the Bruen decision, and Gun Owners Foundation's video laying out the long history of braced handguns.
What is the cost to the firearms industry when the ATF re-regulates approved products?
Brodsky points to confusion and a chilling effect on sales, with companies taking a financial hit because consumers treat a gray area as a reason to stop buying. The episode frames this confusion as a real cost the industry absorbs every time definitions shift.
What is the ATF's proposed rule on who counts as a firearms dealer, and how could it affect private sales?
The episode covers a proposed rule that redefines who counts as a firearms dealer, discussed alongside banking surveillance and a de facto registry. These changes are framed as part of a broader pattern of regulatory overreach affecting ordinary owners and private transactions.
How can ordinary gun owners push back against red flag laws and made-up terminology?
Brodsky frames change as a grassroots effort that starts with educating friends and family. The hosts share stories, a college skeptic turned range partner and an aunt who bought a Glock 19 after being mugged, as proof that personal experience and education move people more than terminology fights.
Chapters
- 00:00 — Meet Alex, eight years in the industry
- 01:41 — Working for an 80% company
- 02:55 — A regulatory agency taking power from Congress
- 05:03 — The pistol brace ban and 40 million felons
- 07:53 — Building your own gun: pride and tradition
- 10:37 — Born in the Soviet Union, no voice under communism
- 13:17 — Does writing your legislator matter? Chipman and ammo fights
- 16:48 — New Mexico carry suspension and COVID-era overreach
- 18:30 — The brace injunction and the cost to the industry
- 20:59 — Where braces came from and who they protect
- 23:45 — Privacy, banking surveillance, and Liberty Safes
- 26:52 — Redefining FFLs and the dealer rule
- 30:04 — Red flag laws and the terminology battle
- 32:48 — Education, grassroots change, and personal stories
- 35:05 — 9 million new gun owners and the closing call to join GOA
About the guest
Alex Brodsky has worked in the firearms industry for about eight years, on the industry side, the regulation side, and everything in between, including time working for an 80% company. He now does marketing consulting in the industry. He is a naturalized US citizen who was born in the former Soviet Union and left right before the fall of the Iron Wall. He lives in California and is an avid firearms collector and enthusiast.
Key quotes
"you're taking the power away from Congress to make laws and you're just arbitrarily creating your own laws and giving the executive branch just a huge amount of power to do whatever they want." — Alex Brodsky
"I can tell you a time when I lived in Soviet Union where they changed their minds on pretty much everything month to month, because they can do that." — Alex Brodsky
"we do have rights and we do hold our government accountable because guys, they work for us, we don't work for them." — Alex Brodsky
"our second amendment is constitutionally protected, not government granted." — Kaylee
"The reason why they're not hearing your voice is because you're not doing it right." — Alex Brodsky
"the echo chamber that they're creating is only an echo chamber if we stay silent." — Kaylee
Transcripts
Welcome to Gun Owners America State of the second podcast.
Speaker A:My name is John.
Speaker B:And I'm Kayleigh.
Speaker B:And today we are joined by Alex, who's an industry expert in marketing.
Speaker B:Alex, thanks for joining.
Speaker C:Hey, thank you for having me, guys.
Speaker C:It's pleasure.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Well, thank you.
Speaker B:So you've kind of had a ton of roles in the industry, from one side of the industry to the other and really have become an expert when it comes to the Second Amendment community and have seen a lot of trends and rises and falls.
Speaker B:So excited to have you on this show.
Speaker C:Thank you very much.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say I'm an expert.
Speaker C:I've been in the industry for about eight years.
Speaker C:I've seen a lot of really interesting things, industry side, regulation side and everything in between, between the changing administrations from Obama to Trump to, to now Biden, and excuse me for wearing the Nike shirt.
Speaker C:I'm, I live in California.
Speaker C:That's how I blend in with other people.
Speaker A:Oh, man.
Speaker A:You are stuck behind enemy lines.
Speaker C:Enemy lines.
Speaker C:I and, and I'm looking to get away someday.
Speaker C:Hopefully sooner than later.
Speaker A:I'm dragging you to Phoenix.
Speaker C:You are?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:You don't know that yet.
Speaker A:I'm just going to drag you to Phoenix.
Speaker C:Don't tell me.
Speaker C:It's just, I'd go, but it's like hotter than hell in Phoenix.
Speaker C:120 Degrees is not my ideal environment.
Speaker A:But you can cook outside at the same time.
Speaker C:You can cook on like on the top of your car outside.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's saving money.
Speaker C:You have fun doing that.
Speaker A:All right, so Kaylee mentioned you've been in a wide variety of areas in the industry.
Speaker A:At one point you worked for an 80% company.
Speaker C:Yes, I did.
Speaker A:You've seen the ups and downs and attacks on that.
Speaker A:I love to just pick your brain on that because you more than anybody know everything about that.
Speaker C:I mean.
Speaker C:Yeah, well, as we know of 80 percenters and gun building as a whole, I mean that's, that was something that's just ingrained in the American society.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:For, since the inception of this, this country.
Speaker C:I mean, you know, from blacksmiths to, you know, gun builders in the, in the, in the west and you know, and then now with, with the modernization of technology, 80% receivers.
Speaker C:So those were the receivers that the ATF back in the day, you know, after they were submitted to the atf, said, you know, this is not a firearm.
Speaker C:It's completely legal to, to own, to build and to use at our home.
Speaker C:So as we know, administrations change and unfortunately policy changes with it.
Speaker C:And so it becomes another headache.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, I think you touched on it, but this is something that is older than our republic.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker B:And the downside to the government just changing definitions, which they have gotten very good at doing as of recent.
Speaker B:Not only are you taking away someone's right, but you're also really stifling people from understanding the technology, taking ownership.
Speaker B:At goa, we have a definition of a gun rights activist.
Speaker B:Everyone's probably heard it 500,000 times, but it's someone who takes personal responsibility, not only in the use of their firearms, but, but in the defense of their right to own them.
Speaker B:And so when you see an attack, especially one by an unelected bureaucracy, it is just staggering the long term effects and repercussions of a radical move like that.
Speaker C:I mean, what is the bigger issue?
Speaker C:The bigger issue is this, that we have an agency that is a regulatory agency, but it's essentially taking the power away from Congress.
Speaker C:And we've seen a lot of that lately with all the proposed rulemaking and all this stuff happening now and all the stuff that you guys are doing in court, by the way, it's amazing.
Speaker C:But the issue is this, you're taking the power away from Congress to make laws and you're just arbitrarily creating your own laws and giving the executive branch just a huge amount of power to do whatever they want.
Speaker C:And I feel like that's really the issue at hand and that's what you guys are fighting right now.
Speaker C:And God bless you all.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right.
Speaker B:I can't take any credit for it.
Speaker B:Our legal team is phenomenal and we're so blessed to have our legal team representing our members and supporters.
Speaker B:A shame.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:That we're having to file the lawsuits that we're having to file.
Speaker B:I mean, if you just look at the pistol brace ban alone, overnight, 40 million Americans becoming felons for owning essentially.
Speaker B:What's a piece of plastic?
Speaker B:It's so, it's so ridiculous.
Speaker C:And a piece of plastic that was what, seven years before was ruled to be.
Speaker C:Okay, great.
Speaker C:After it was submitted to, you know, to that regulatory agency.
Speaker A:Well, it's, it's the ATF's war on plastic.
Speaker A:Like Kaylee says.
Speaker A:They're going after stuff that's minute it started with the bump stocks and then it went to 80%.
Speaker A:Now it's on this.
Speaker A:I mean, where does it stop?
Speaker A:And if we keep giving the little inches we gave, you know, the inch was given on bump stocks.
Speaker A:Where, where is this going to stop?
Speaker C:I Mean, it doesn't until you have an administration in the White House that actually cares about gun rights and cares about the tradition of Americans.
Speaker C:I mean, gun ownership is a tradition.
Speaker C:It's not something that a lot of people get to do around the world and protect themselves and protect their own property and hunt and do these other things.
Speaker C:Firearms, go on the weekend with our friends and target practice.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:It's an American tradition that is slowly being taken away because there are people in government that don't trust you to do it and don't want you to have that power and will do anything to take it away from you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that word tradition is so important.
Speaker B:So Gun Owners foundation is goa sister organization.
Speaker B:And our motto, you're in marketing.
Speaker B:Our slogan has always been text, history and tradition.
Speaker B:And we were kind of the.
Speaker B:The first to sue on those grounds.
Speaker B:And thankfully, when it came to the Burin decision, it was the Supreme Court that said, no, this is the standard by which you have to use to judge all second amendment cases.
Speaker B:Because ultimately we have to remember that our second amendment is constitutionally protected, not government granted.
Speaker B:And so when we look at things like the pistol braces, for example, you know, the Foundation, Gun Owners foundation released a video throughout, through bullet points that went through the history of braced handguns.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:And there are patents and there are, There's a huge history there that predates America.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:And so the fact that just one day someone's like, you know what?
Speaker B:We should ban these is just so ludicrous.
Speaker A:Well, I love how you, you touched on, you know, we talk about tradition.
Speaker A:You touch on the tradition of building guns in, in the US and for a period of time, it died down.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:And I would say that you are one of the revolutionaries of, of the gun, and you can laugh at that, but it's true.
Speaker A:Without you and what you did do.
Speaker A:We see the slides and the barrels and the customization and the building from the ground up that.
Speaker A:That has started in the last eight, eight to 10 years now.
Speaker C:I mean, one of the main things when I was working in that world, one of the main comments I would hear all the time is that, you know what?
Speaker C:I learned so much about building a gun just by having this product.
Speaker C:And it was a weekend project for me.
Speaker C:It was a project with my son.
Speaker C:It's something that brought us closer together just by working on this product.
Speaker C:And people have so much pride just taking their newly built gun, taking it to the range and just firing it and seeing that it's working and just being blown away.
Speaker C:How Great.
Speaker C:This thing is.
Speaker C:And it's, for the most part, was their favorite firearm, because it's theirs.
Speaker C:It's their own manufactured firearm that they didn't just, you know, take from.
Speaker C:From a store, did a whole transfer thing, and they just fired it right out of the box.
Speaker C:No, it's.
Speaker C:It's something that they worked on for the weekend.
Speaker C:And it's.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's their own.
Speaker C:It has their own blood, sweat, and tears over it.
Speaker C:So sometimes tears because they just didn't know what they were doing.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:But, but, yeah, I mean, it was just pride and ownership, and that's one of the main things that.
Speaker C:That is being taken away from people right now.
Speaker B:I think that those kind of moments.
Speaker B:And I think one of the things about those moments that are so impactful is that generational thing.
Speaker C:Correct.
Speaker B:If we go back to the famous Ronald Reagan quote, freedom is only a generation away from extinction.
Speaker B:And so when you see that, people kind of get used to the tyranny that they're under.
Speaker B:Yes, right.
Speaker B:It's that whole.
Speaker B:What is it?
Speaker B:The frog and the boiling water.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:And you don't know when to hop out.
Speaker B:When you have someone who understands the Second Amendment, understands that it's a natural right, and then shares it with their niece, their nephew, their son, their daughter, and there's an educational component.
Speaker B:Guess what?
Speaker B:Those kids don't want to lose that right either.
Speaker C:They don't.
Speaker B:And you have a Second Amendment, whether you choose to exercise it or not, you're giving something up.
Speaker B:If you let a political organization take that away.
Speaker B:Which is.
Speaker B:Which is what you're having with.
Speaker B:With the federal government.
Speaker B:Unfortunately, Alex, you.
Speaker A:You touched on something, and it's the right to keep and bear arms and shoot.
Speaker A:And that's not seen around the world.
Speaker C:It's definitely not.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker A:You have a story and experience.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I am a naturalized US Citizen.
Speaker C:I was born in the former Soviet Union, and I can say it's the Soviet Union because when I was born, it was the Soviet Union.
Speaker C:So I left right before that Iron Wall, Gorbachev and everything we just did right before the Iron Wall came down.
Speaker C:And it was communism.
Speaker C:I mean, it's communism in its purest form.
Speaker C:It was a Soviet Union, and people were reliant on the government to protect them.
Speaker C:And guess what?
Speaker C:They weren't very well protected.
Speaker C:It was a very corrupt government, and it was a government that did not really care much for its citizens.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Because they can pretty much do whatever they want.
Speaker C:They had all the power.
Speaker C:It's just A fundamental right that we never got to enjoy living there and having it here is absolutely amazing.
Speaker C:And that's why I joined this industry because I fully believe in what firearms ownership stands for.
Speaker C:It's being self reliant, self protecting.
Speaker A:Now seeing that.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:Is there any fears that you have as being someone who lived through that, that you see that you're worried that you could preach to our member base and go, hey, it's time to take action to vote and get the right people in place.
Speaker C:I mean I live in California.
Speaker C:California is probably the closest thing to.
Speaker C:And I don't, I mean I don't want to bash the state because there's just, we're really talking about very few metropolitan populated areas that pretty much govern the state.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:We're talking about like San Francisco, San Diego, Los Angeles.
Speaker C:There's a lot of gun owners, very proud gun owners in California that just aren't getting their voice heard right for that state.
Speaker C:They want you to rely on government.
Speaker C:They feel a safe, like they feel a safety in not having guns around because they have the police, the government to protect them.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker C:Well, that's not really the case.
Speaker C:Some of the most well regulated, supposedly gun free regulated areas like Oakland is a mess and they can't do anything about it and people cannot protect themselves in that environment.
Speaker C:Unfortunately.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:One of the things that I think a lot of people are concerned about when it comes to writing an email to a legislature.
Speaker C:Correct.
Speaker B:Or sending a postcard or calling is this fear of does it matter?
Speaker C:It absolutely matters.
Speaker C:Yeah, it does matter.
Speaker C:The reason why they're not hearing your voice is because you're not doing it right.
Speaker C:I'll give you a good example.
Speaker C:I would say the whole thing with David Chipman, right when he was being announced for, for the ATF leadership.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:We all as gun owners went up in arms.
Speaker C:We, we called an ssf.
Speaker C:We called, you know, we called the, this, the Senate and we said we cannot have this guy be in charge of the atf.
Speaker C:He's absolutely going to destroy gun rights here in America.
Speaker C:I've never seen such coalition of people go up against a nomination before.
Speaker C:And it happened.
Speaker C:He, he was not in charge.
Speaker C:Now the guy that's in charge now is probably know better.
Speaker C:But we all band together as, as gun owners and we, we made sure that this guy is not there to, to stifle gun rights.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:For this position.
Speaker B:And we've seen this.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:Before.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I, I mean goa, we just finished up the, the comment period for the, the lead ammo ban with hunters.
Speaker B:94%, I believe is the final number of comments came from GOA members and came through those campaigns.
Speaker B:We've seen it in the past when the ATF wanted to ban green tip ammo.
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker B:And we won that battle.
Speaker B:We've seen it when we've just.
Speaker B:Massive amounts of gun control was in the House and Senate.
Speaker B:We've seen people mysteriously miss votes because, because they're like, wait a second, you know, I'm gonna go eat real fast.
Speaker B:When they were voting all day long, just because so many gun owners called and were like, don't take my second amendment rights away.
Speaker B:They were in like a little purple situation where they're like, okay, well I don't wanna lose power.
Speaker B:And I think that's kind of baked into the secret sauce of GOA is that voice.
Speaker B:I just wonder how many people don't realize that their voice matters.
Speaker B:And as someone who lived in a, in a area where your voice was completely stifled, how that must fill.
Speaker C:I mean, just as an example, my dad knew who he's going to vote for in the next election because his boss at the company he was working for told him he's going to be voting for that person and there's nothing he could do about it.
Speaker C:You were told, how are you going to live with whom you're going to live?
Speaker C:You could be living in an apartment with five different strangers the next day.
Speaker C:You know, that's the government telling you what to do.
Speaker C:And people did not have that voice.
Speaker C:Here we do have the voice.
Speaker C:We can call our senators, we can call our representatives and we can donate to companies like, like GOA just to fight those battles of we cannot fight as individuals.
Speaker C:But once we're all kind of banning together and voting and calling and supporting the people that do make that fight for us, then I think we can get a lot of things done here in this country.
Speaker A:Well, I think the big thing we just saw where our voice does matter is New Mexico.
Speaker C:Correct.
Speaker A:The minute she said you can't carry guns in this county, everybody, everybody went up in arms.
Speaker A:It was so bad.
Speaker A:Even the awful David Hogg out of nowhere said, no, she's wrong.
Speaker A:It's laughable because he's so anti gun, but everybody's voice was heard that she's going after our constitutional rights.
Speaker C:How did she even justify that?
Speaker C:Can anybody explain to me how's that medical emergency?
Speaker C:I have no idea.
Speaker A:It wasn't justifiable at all.
Speaker A:You can't.
Speaker C:Unconstitutional.
Speaker C:Plainly unconstitutional.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I want to say that this is the only time we've Ever seen anything like this?
Speaker B:And definitely it is to the extreme.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:But let's not forget that it wasn't very long ago when everyone was threatening to shut down the industry because of COVID Yep.
Speaker B:And it wasn't very long ago that GOA was filing lawsuits in Pennsylvania because they weren't issuing can still carry permits during COVID because of a health crisis.
Speaker B:And so these are things that, unfortunately, we're seeing more of, and it's important that everyone goes, whoa.
Speaker B:Like, no, absolutely not.
Speaker B:And now we're kind of the silent majority, as a lot of people want to put it, is getting more awake, which is so important because the echo chamber that they're creating is only an echo chamber if we stay silent.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:As you know, GOA filed for a preliminary injunction.
Speaker A:We filed for a national injunction.
Speaker A:We were able to get our members covered with that injunction.
Speaker A:The judge ruled on that.
Speaker A:As somebody who works for a company or consults for a company that is highly affected by this.
Speaker A:What does this look like for you guys?
Speaker A:Could this be.
Speaker A:Do you have to pivot?
Speaker A:How much you got to spend to pivot?
Speaker A:What does this look like?
Speaker C:I mean, just as a whole.
Speaker C:Not just the company that I consult with, but also the whole industry.
Speaker C:I mean, it's creating havoc because people just don't know what they don't know.
Speaker C:They just think, hey, this is illegal now.
Speaker C:The braces are banned.
Speaker C:It's a gray area, so there's nothing I can do about it, so I'm just not gonna buy.
Speaker C:Buy anything.
Speaker C:What.
Speaker C:Essentially, what it's doing is.
Speaker C:And what.
Speaker C:What.
Speaker C:What they're succeeding is doing is just making companies hurt and just hitting them in the pocketbooks.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I feel like people need to be educated in what's really going on.
Speaker C:And I know you guys won that preliminary injunction, which is great.
Speaker C:So every time all these companies go to a trade show, they go to a gun show.
Speaker C:They have.
Speaker C:They have their retailers that sell their product.
Speaker C:They absolutely have to mention to the.
Speaker C:To the.
Speaker C:To their consumers that, hey, become a member of goa.
Speaker C:You are covered by this preliminary injunction.
Speaker C:You can put whatever the heck you want on that end of that, you know, little shorty and be fine.
Speaker C:You're.
Speaker C:You're good.
Speaker C:Until we have this in place right now, until something changes, go ahead and just, you know, enjoy your rights to shoot this product.
Speaker C:It's fine.
Speaker C:I feel like it has to stop in education.
Speaker C:And now I do really hope that the judge in your case, like, really follows the constitutional law, understands Bruin, and makes the right decision.
Speaker C:And you Know that you guys are ultimately victorious in getting that national injunction for everybody.
Speaker C:And I feel like you will be.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, our legal team is incredible.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:I give all of the, all of the credit where it is rightfully due.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:One of the things that is so difficult, at least from the perspective of where the braces came from and understanding the braces, because I think a lot of people who maybe joined the new gun owners of the last few years are probably looking at everyone talking about this and they're like, why do you care?
Speaker B:What is this?
Speaker B:Do I have a, a lot of people?
Speaker B:It was so commonplace and it is so commonplace and it is a part of our culture that it seems almost comical to try to explain to someone.
Speaker B:But when we looked at why this was created, and really this is a stripping away of rights for people who might not be able to handle a full size rifle, might have a disability.
Speaker B:This is massively going after the veteran community.
Speaker B:This is again part of a targeted attack.
Speaker B:We've seen them go after veterans rights time and time and time again.
Speaker B:And so it's so crucial that we understand and see where the braces came from, why they happened to even understand the insanity that it is that they're, they're banning this product to begin with.
Speaker C:I mean, like, like, like we know that they approved this product, you know, back then and everything was fine.
Speaker C:And then now it's suddenly, you know, it's, it's on their agenda to not approve this in its current configuration.
Speaker C:I don't understand why they would do that.
Speaker C:It's, it's just horrible, horrible what they're doing.
Speaker C:And I hope that you know that you guys prevail.
Speaker C:Absolutely do.
Speaker A:Can you name a time where any other government agency over the course of five to six years have swapped their minds on braces bump stocks?
Speaker A:You've got 80 percenters, you've got FRT triggers.
Speaker A:They have approved these items and people bought them and now you're a felon because you own it.
Speaker C:I can tell you a time when I lived in Soviet Union where they changed their minds on pretty much everything month to month, because they can do that.
Speaker C:But we, we do have rights and we do hold our government accountable because guys, they work for us, we don't work for them.
Speaker C:So I think it's time to hold them accountable for everything that they're doing.
Speaker A:Well, it's the same thing as we, we should not only hold, you know, the ATF accountable, we should also hold the companies accountable who have given out their customer list and have Brought.
Speaker A:And we just saw that happen a few months back with Liberty Safes.
Speaker A:You know, they shouldn't be giving up our Second Amendment rights because they can.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker A:We've all.
Speaker A:We all saw how that turned out.
Speaker A:You know, you don't mess with people's rights, especially a right that says shall not be infringed in it.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, I can't really comment on Liberty Saves and what they did.
Speaker C:I do have some ideas on what may have happened, but it's still not cool what did transpire.
Speaker C:I feel like our privacy should be solely protected.
Speaker C:And I know there's a lot of companies out there that are fighting for the rights of their customers and their privacy.
Speaker C:So, I mean, kudos to those companies.
Speaker C:They absolutely do a great job.
Speaker C:I know you guys work with Daniel Defense, and they're one of those companies that are very protective of, you know, of the information.
Speaker C:And I think they're fighting a good fight right now.
Speaker B:So when we look at the industry, we understand that there is an attack by the atf.
Speaker B:We understand that there is attack by the federal government, state governments, people wanting to limit the types of firearms that are available in the US and those infringements, one of the things that is so difficult to even comprehend in some ways is this push to regulate banking, to track purchases, to essentially create a de facto registry in many regards.
Speaker B:Kind of.
Speaker B:What's your take on that?
Speaker B:From this marketing consulting that you work, that you do.
Speaker C:Gosh, that's a loaded question.
Speaker C:I would say the whole point of this is that you own a right to privacy.
Speaker C:I mean, we already don't have any privacy online.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Everything and anything, use social media.
Speaker C:They're tracking everywhere you go and what you do now that your purchases are being tracked.
Speaker C:And it doesn't even matter if it's firearms or anything else.
Speaker C:They.
Speaker C:That's just one of the biggest infringements on our own privacy.
Speaker C:Like nobody should have the right to know what I buy, where I bought it and who I bought it from, unless I did something wrong and I'm in trouble by utilizing this product and probably.
Speaker C:I mean, how do I cut that out?
Speaker C:I don't.
Speaker C:Yeah, I don't want to say that too much.
Speaker C:Like, I feel like as long as I bought something and I'm in, I'm utilizing it responsibly and I'm being a good citizen.
Speaker C:Nobody should know anything about what I own and what I have.
Speaker A:So you talk about like they shouldn't know what you have, and they use this, this term gun show loophole.
Speaker A:And things like that.
Speaker A:And now they're attacking the right to sell your firearm.
Speaker A:And if you.
Speaker A:They're redefining what a dealer is.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker A:And as somebody who's an avid collector and enthusiast, like you and I both are, you know, what does that mean for you?
Speaker A:Like, you probably have bought stuff and you're like, okay, now I can sell it and make a little bit money.
Speaker C:Well, I can't sell anything because I live in California and they don't allow any of that stuff.
Speaker C:So whatever I have is my own, and nobody needs to know what I have because I am a responsible gun owner and I use it responsibly.
Speaker A:So the ATF has a proposed ruling out there.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:Where they're redefining what an FFL is, what a business is.
Speaker A:And they're trying to go after saying that if you sell a firearm and make a profit on it, you are now doing business in gun sales, and you are now an ffl.
Speaker A:The other thing they're doing and what they love doing is creating these loopholes where if you're an FFL and you are going out of business or you're selling off your property, you know, what you have in stock, they're going after them saying this is their fire sale loophole.
Speaker A:Because this, you know, as a.
Speaker A:As a business, you have to make the money that you can make before you close.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:And these new loophole terms, because they love to use the word loophole, is going after just not only you as a common citizen, to sell something that you bought, because it's no different than buying a stereo system and deciding that you don't want it anymore.
Speaker A:You know, why.
Speaker A:Why do you think they're going after this as it's.
Speaker A:As a person, and how do you feel about them changing the definition as somebody who's worked for a manufacturer and who's worked, you know, in the industry,.
Speaker C:Because, you know, as a responsible gun owner, if you provide, if you give or sell something to another responsible gun owner, I don't think anybody should be able to.
Speaker C:To really dictate, you know, like, what I need to do.
Speaker C:Like, it's.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:I. I'm not an ffl.
Speaker C:I'm not a gun store.
Speaker C:Like, it's.
Speaker C:I shouldn't be regulated as such.
Speaker C:I've actually never again.
Speaker C:I live in California.
Speaker C:We don't really do too much of that there, so I'm not.
Speaker C:Not fully in tune with that.
Speaker C:But I do feel like this whole thing is just to know what you have, what you're doing.
Speaker C:With it and who now has it and it's, you know, especially if you haven't really done anything wrong, it's nobody's business what you do and what you're on private property.
Speaker A:I mean, and this may go again, you live in California, so it's a little bit different for you.
Speaker A:But let's just say you bought and the same thing as multiple gun purchases within 30 days.
Speaker A:Okay, okay.
Speaker A:Or, or purchases and selling guns within 30 days of purchasing them.
Speaker A:You buy a gun.
Speaker A:Basically what that's saying is you buy a gun, you don't like it, you ended up not liking it, you go sell it back and then you buy another one.
Speaker A:Well, now you're, you're conducting arms business.
Speaker C:If, if you know they, they do those background checks and nothing's wrong with you, you, you're a responsible citizen.
Speaker C:There, there's no, you know, there's nothing that they can possibly get at you about it.
Speaker C:I feel like you should do whatever you want to do.
Speaker C:I mean it's whether you buy one gun or two guns, or buy, trade out multiple guns within that's 30 days, like who cares?
Speaker C:You're a free, responsible citizen, you should be able to do whatever you need to do.
Speaker C:So I really don't know much about this.
Speaker C:Like you're like threw me over a curveball.
Speaker A:Like I like throwing curveballs at you.
Speaker B:So let's talk about something that in California not only and in many parts of the anti gun left controls these made up terms.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:Red flag laws, gun confiscation orders.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:This is not only an attack on the second amendment, but it's attack on the fourth amendment in a really big way.
Speaker B:From the industry perspective, how is this conversation shaping?
Speaker B:I know so many people have just accepted the term red flag law.
Speaker B:So how do you see combating this terminology battle that we're having from the truth to the made up language?
Speaker C:Well, the hard part is you're never going to change a politician.
Speaker C:A lot of them are in their little soapbox, their minds already made up so they're going to use red flag law.
Speaker C:But in those states where you see that happening in those embattled states like California and New York, you know, New Jersey, I think everything starts at the bottom.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like it's a grassroots effort.
Speaker C:You have to explain family, friends, whoever else that doesn't understand what that means, you have to tell them what's wrong with, you know, that terminology, those policies and hopefully you change their mind.
Speaker C:So when it comes time to vote, when it comes time to choose their Next representative.
Speaker C:They know what's up.
Speaker C:They know, like, hey, what they're saying is a bunch of baloney.
Speaker A:Well, and that's what we are hoping.
Speaker A:We're hoping that we have more educated voters who know that voting on a certain way because people have told you to vote that way.
Speaker A:And as you.
Speaker A:You said your dad was told to vote a certain way.
Speaker A:We need to change their mind and go.
Speaker A:You need to look at the issues because they may not align with you, even though you've been told your whole life, this is your political party.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:They don't line with which you personally believe in.
Speaker C:The great thing about gun owners, we guys, we are so in tune with laws and government and what's happening in every branch of government.
Speaker C:We are.
Speaker C:Most people are like that.
Speaker C:Just so you guys know, most people are completely clueless about what's.
Speaker C:What's going on even in their own county.
Speaker C:So you have to get vocal about it.
Speaker C:You have to explain to your friends and family what's happening and hopefully you're convincing enough to change their mind.
Speaker C:But let them think about it.
Speaker C:I mean, that's where it all starts, right?
Speaker C:That's where change starts.
Speaker C:From education.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:No, and I think that's a critical piece.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:We can only do so much to convince anyone, especially the further away from that person that you are.
Speaker B:And, and so us as individuals having conversations with our friends, with our families starts the chain reaction that a Facebook ad or an Instagram ad, or as phenomenal as it is that we have the ability to host a podcast, a podcast is not really going to change someone's mind if they are radically against something.
Speaker B:It might.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:There's always that one that's like, oh, you know, like, this was the thing that got me.
Speaker B:But generally speaking, someone talks about it kind of plants a seed of curiosity.
Speaker B:And then the more that you talk about them, and one of the greatest things that ever happened, and this is totally a personal antidote, as I was in college and talking to someone about the Second Amendment and they went to research firearms ownership to prove me wrong using my own sources.
Speaker B:And what ended up happening is like a month later they were like, so I think you might be right.
Speaker B:Would you mind going to the range with me?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And so you never know what's going to be the thing that.
Speaker B:That goes, okay, well, actually there.
Speaker B:Mass murder is.
Speaker B:Is still illegal.
Speaker B:Murder is still illegal.
Speaker B:Assault is still illegal.
Speaker B:It's not the firearms fault.
Speaker B:It's not the Second Amendment.
Speaker B:And so I encourage anyone that can have those conversations To.
Speaker B:To have them.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:I mean, and I can tell you a story from my own experience.
Speaker C:I mean, firearms ownership.
Speaker C:My aunt was deathly afraid of owning guns.
Speaker C:I mean, she's an immigrant woman from, you know, that's lived here all her life.
Speaker C:She's never even considered owning a gun until she was mugged outside like a really Fancy Mall like three years back.
Speaker C:Now she shoots her Glock 19 and she absolutely loves it.
Speaker C:So it's personal experiences, but it's also like education.
Speaker C:Educating people at firearms are, you know, they're fun to shoot, but they're also there to protect you from anything that's bad that can happen to you.
Speaker A:Well, you guys both have stories.
Speaker A:We all have a story like this and for the audience out there, share those stories, you know, because in the last three years, we've seen gun showership jump up by 9 million new gun owners.
Speaker A:And there's a lot of people who've seen that.
Speaker A:The same experience that you had with the people at college, Kaylee, and you had with your aunt.
Speaker A:You know, a lot of people are seeing that they can't.
Speaker A:There's not always a police officer there to protect you.
Speaker A:There's not always, you know, you're not always going to.
Speaker A:You think you're in a safe area, but you're not.
Speaker A:There's a chance that something can happen.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker A:And we saw that during COVID We saw a lot of people taking the responsibility for their own personal protection into their hands.
Speaker A:And that's what I love to hear.
Speaker A:Because having experience of taking somebody new to the range or having, you know, teaching somebody new, bringing people.
Speaker A:And this is what we want as a 2A community.
Speaker A:We want to bring more people in so that they understand that it's not just, you know, it's an inalienable right, but it's not just about shooting and killing and all that.
Speaker A:It's about having fun and being enjoying our second amendment rights.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker A:We want to thank you guys for joining us again.
Speaker A:Again, Remember to join GOA.
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