In this clarifying episode, Richard Broo, Principal and Founder of True North PMP Consulting, shares how how stage 5 CEOs can diagnose and fix disconnects that derail projects and performance. If you feel overwhelmed by complexity, frustrated by information gaps between levels, or sense your team is not aligned despite your efforts, you won't want to miss it.

You will discover:

- Why breakdowns happen even with smart people and strong intentions

- How to assess the true current state by talking directly to people at every level

- What to do instead of blaming when things go wrong

This episode is ideal for for Founders, Owners, and CEOs in stage 5 of The Founder's Evolution. Not sure which stage you're in? Find out for free in less than 10 minutes at https://www.scalearchitects.com/founders/quiz

Richard Broo has spent more than 40 years helping organizations identify and correct project issues before they become costly failures. He has worked with Fortune 500 companies, mid-market firms, and private-equity-backed businesses across industries, including packaging, automotive, consumer goods, industrial manufacturing, and medical equipment. His expertise includes product management, project management, new product development, commercialization, and operations. He has also led businesses through major turnarounds, including stabilizing a failing medical packaging company and guiding it through bankruptcy to a successful $22.2 million sale.

Want to learn more about Richard Broo's work at True North PMP Consulting? Check out his website at https://truenorthpmpconsulting.com/

Connect with Richard through his LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardbroo?

Hello, hello, and welcome. Welcome once again

to the Start Scale and Succeed podcast, the only podcast that

grows with you through all seven stages of your journey as a

founder. I'm your host, Scott Retzheimer, and I still remember

there was this distinct change that I couldn't describe at the

time I was founder, CEO of a business. We moved from being

this small entrepreneurial startup to one day kind of woke

up and found like we're this full blown enterprise, and as

nice as that sounds, and as much as I probably bragged about it

quite a bit, if I'm honest, it seemed like on the inside it was

a heck of a lot harder than I expected, because just about

every day demanded a new skill or new way of thinking that I

did not have at the time. Now, as a coach, I recognize this

same challenge that catches almost every founder by surprise

when they reach this CEO stage. There's so much to consider,

there's so much to understand, and there's so much that has to

get done, and you're so dependent on so many people for

every step of that process that it can be very, very

overwhelming. The simplest problems, like realizing you're

paying $10 for a part that should only cost $1 somehow

comes with so much complexity that you wonder if you ever, if

you'll ever get anything done. Well, if that's you, I am

thrilled to have you here. Because today's guest is Richard

Broo, who spent more than 40 years helping organizations

identify and correct project issues before they become costly

failures. He has worked with Fortune 500 companies,

mid-market firms, and private equity-backed businesses across

industries, including packaging, automotive, consumer goods,

industrial manufacturing, and medical equipment. His expertise

includes product management, project management, new product

development, commercialization, and operations. He's also led

businesses through major turnarounds, including

stabilizing a failing medical packaging company and guiding it

through bankruptcy to a successful $22.2 million sale.

He's here with us today. Richard, welcome to the show.

I'm so glad to have you on today. I'm excited about this

conversation. I want to jump in with a question here. You've

spent a long time, over 40 years, of walking into rooms

where projects or companies are bleeding out money, they're out

of time, and that all happens under the watch of some really

clever people, some really smart CEOs who've had a ton of success

in the past. How does that happen? How do we let things get

so out of control?

But first of all, thanks for having me, Scott. And

that's a very good question. And from my experience, it gets out

of control because the different levels within the organization,

either have different expectations about what you're,

what they're trying to do, what they're trying to achieve, and

they're not communicating with one another on all cylinders, if

you will. So I have found that that's one of the critical

reasons why some of the brightest and best minds get

derailed, because those that they depend on always don't

provide all the information or the right information at the

right time.

Yeah, yeah, it's this like game of telephone

times hundreds and 1000s, and and I think the challenge of it

is for founders who you've kind of been growing up through all

of these different levels and stages, they've got a pretty

keen sense on the feel for the organization. They know it needs

to get done, and I think we actually misinterpret the fact

that our executives have that same level of intuition. We kind

of think that they know exactly what's happening at any given

point in time, when sometimes they're just as in the dark as

us, where in this game of phone, when we realize that it's

breaking down? What are some of the first steps to start to

clarify things?

Well, having done several turnarounds and helped

some of the General Electric divisions become more profitable

and operationally efficient, you know, the first thing that that

I look for is current state. What is what is the current

state? What if you're the CEO? I want to know what do you know?

What do you think? What do you feel? You know what's your

impression about what's going on here. But I don't want to stop

there. I want to go down below you. I want to talk to your

staff. I want to talk to the people within the organization

to see, are they are they seen and thinking the same things

that you are, because what I find is there is some degree of

disconnect, you know. The boots on the ground are trying to make

something happen, right? I mean, that's why I'm a boot on the

ground. I'm here to help advance the company, but I may not.. I'm

live, I'm actually living on the ground, doing the work where the

CEO is up several levels, or some of the management might be,

and they may not really understand what's going on down

at the boots level, or they may have what they think is an

understanding by gathering points of information, but that

information, it's not been put together properly, it's not been

connected properly, so that you know by the time it gets. Way up

to the top, you know that person says, "Well, wait a minute,

what's going on here? And you say, "Well, this is what's

really going on, and this has not been elevated enough to our

levels. So, you first, I first look for is what you told me, as

this founder and a CEO, the same as what I'm hearing on the

floor, where the people are doing the work. If not, there's

a disconnect, and we have to figure out why that disconnect

exists.

Yeah, yeah, with that disconnect, oftentimes

it can be really painful, and and there's this feeling that

we've kind of got to jump in and find someone to blame. We don't

necessarily say it that way, but we feel it that way, it's like

we have there's this almost visceral reaction to point

fingers. Is that helpful? Is it not helpful? What is an

appropriate response when we find out that there's been a

disconnect?

It's not helpful to blame. I mean, when we, when

you boil it all down, we're all people, we're all trying to do

what we think is the right thing, and the only way you're

going to come through, like what I put Headwind Corporation

through before I sold it, or helping turn around GE

silicones, is you have to have some degree of empathy and

open-mindedness to talk to the people about the situation,

gather exactly what they feel that is, look for the

connections and the disconnects, and then employ them, employ

them to help close these disconnects. But for me to say

to you, well, you know, Scott, this is all your division's

fault. That's not going to solve anything. I'm going to alienate

you, and I'm disrespecting you and the people that work for

you. So it's all about getting the people moving in the same

direction, understanding the same objectives and goals, and

making sure that there's that accountability and ownership

that they want to go that way. And the only way you're going to

get there is with your people, so don't blame them, engage

them.

Yeah, when there's been a big mistake, or

there's been a pattern of mistakes, and maybe you want to

handle those two separately. You're more than welcome to, but

how do we separate when it, when it is the person versus when

it's more of a process or systemic challenge?

Well, I've been through that at Headwind. There

were there were some groups within that company that were

not performing as expected, and some of it was the person, but

when he's, when you talk about the person and the situation,

you first have to ask yourself, as a leader, is that person the

right person for that job? Do they, do they really have the

skill sets to do that? And, and ahead, when I, I had a

manufacturing manager that was thrust in, in the job that

didn't have that experience, he did not have the experience of

running, you know, three different buildings, all this

different equipment, and he was just miscast, so I put someone

in there that knew the operation, that knew how to run

it, but that didn't mean the person that was miscast was a

bad person, he had a great rapport with the customers, so I

put him into sales, and he flourished. So, you first look

at the people, I ask myself, is this person miscast in the role?

Is this person really trying hard? I mean, do they have the

heart for what, for the company, what they're trying to do? If I

see that, I'm going to try to help that person get to where

they need to be, and find someone else to take over where

they were that can do the job. Yeah, yeah, and it's all about

people understanding the skill sets required. And do you have

the right people?

One of the things that makes that

challenging for founders, especially when they've had team

members and leaders and executives who've kind of grown

up in the business with them, is that at one point in time that

may have been true, they were the right person in the right

seat, doing the right thing, but those roles aren't static,

they're growing with the organization. And how do you

help someone figure out whether or not that's changed? Like, how

do you stop when they've had so much success in the past and you

see them as a successful leader? How do we, how do we stop in the

current moment and reassess.

Well, my style, what I did at headwind, and when

I did a GE is I actually met with the person, I said, you

know, you've, you've had success up to this point, you're

obviously struggling. Some admitted to the struggle, some

had to be, I guess, coached to understand the struggle, but

eventually understand they're struggling. Okay, why are you

struggling? What is it about what you do on a day-to-day

basis for this job that's preventing you to have a

continued success that will come out in those conversations? And

then the next question I would say, well, if that's the case,

Scott, do you really want to continue in this role that

you're in and risk more failure, or can we work together to find

a spot for you where you can flourish again? Because if you

do, I can help you with that. But even though you've grown up

in this business, so you and I grew up together, it's not

working anymore, and it's all perhaps not your fault. There's

circumstances involved. But again, you have value. Where can

I use that value now to get you back on track and get the

company back on track?

Yeah, yeah, it's such a hard conversation,

but approaching it through that lens, I think, is so powerful,

and I'm regularly surprised at how well that works. I've seen

folks even offered to have themself demoted to another

role, demoted, but into a role that's a better fit, and really

thrive in it. So, from a people standpoint, I love that input

and advice. It's a great conversation to have. The other

thing that you talked about, and kind of opened the episode with,

is that the people are saying and seeing different things,

and, and so one of the challenges, or one of the ways

I've seen companies try to overcome this, is they just

share everything with everyone, not literally, but almost, and

it's just it's emails and emails and meetings and meetings, and

there's a, there's a too much that's just as bad as too

little. How do you figure out what the right information is,

and the right channels to share it?

Well, when it comes down to a personal

conversation, to me it's person to person. I'm not going to air

laundry that doesn't have to be air, if you will. So, if I have

a people issue, I'm going to go to the people involved and have

a direct one on one, understand where their head's at,

understand, you know where their choking points are, and to talk

to them about we can come through this if we want to work

together through it, if it's a process-related thing, and we

had, we, you know, at GE at Silicones, it was, it was, it

was struggling fairly much, and basically we had a product

issue, and we were trying to compete against companies like

Dow and Varga Chemical, and everybody thinks she's this

great company with all these products, but we had products

that couldn't compete with them, so I had to go back to the

product development people and say this is where we're really

strong in this kind of chemistry, not that kind of

chemistry, you've been trying to fight that kind of chemistry,

where we're losing for the last 10 years on the automotive side,

we're already beat, but let's go over here, where we can have a

new market or market segment and win again. So, I think you have

to, I think you have to find a way to divide it. If it's

people, it's one on one, it's figuring out where the choke

points are, how to get them back on track, not and use their

value if it's, if it's process or product wise, you've got to

go back within, within the organization with the facts,

obviously, and say we're not winning here, and we're not

winning here because of our people, we're not winning here

because we don't have products that can compete in the

marketplace, but we have strengths over here where the

competitors don't, that's what we need to exploit.

Got it, got it. So, good, Richard. There's

this question that I have. I ask all my guests. I'm interested to

ask it of you as well. And the question is this: What is the

biggest secret that you wish wasn't a secret at all? What's

that one thing you wish everybody watching or listening

today knew?

I wouldn't call it a secret, I would call it point

of concern. There's no issue, there's no problem that you

cannot overcome if you just have the gumption, the desire to have

the hard conversations with the people that you're trying to

nurture to grow your company or to turn your company around. You

know, I grew up in GE before it became Welsh's real GE of

empowerment, where people were afraid to talk. I'm afraid to

talk to Scott, because I'm afraid if Scott takes what I say

wrong, politically I could be killing myself. Or I don't

really want to admit this to Scott, because if I do, I'm

showing a sign of weakness. The big secret is don't be that way.

Admit to what you don't know, admit to what you can't do, and

ask for the help. That's strength, that's not weakness.

But I think a lot of people feel within themselves, I don't want

to expose myself to that. It's no big secret, you know. And I

think you get more respect and more help and more runway if you

do that with with the people you work for and the people you work

with.

Absolutely, absolutely, Richard. There are

some folks who are listening and hanging on everywhere. You said

just completely describe the situation they're in, and they'd

love to have help navigating through some of these turbulent

waters. Where can folks find more out about you and the work

that you do. Where can they reach out to connect with you?

They can find me on LinkedIn. I'm Richard Broo, B

R O O. My company has a website, ww dot true north pmp

consulting.com And I'll be more than happy if one of your

listeners would like to talk with me. It would be my

privilege.

Fantastic, fantastic. Well, Richard, thank

you so much for coming on and sharing the wealth of experience

that you had. I know we've only scratched the surface of the

surface, and for those of you listening, you know that your

time and attention mean the world to us. I hope you got as

much out of this conversation as I know I did, and I. Cannot wait

to see you next time. Take care.