A Conversation with Director Darin Westby: Addressing Mental Health in the Workplace

In this episode of 'One Minute Can Save a Life,' host Kent Corso speaks with Darin Westby, Director of the Wyoming Department of Transportation, about the importance of addressing mental health and suicide prevention in the workplace. Westby shares the recent tragedy of a suicide within his organization and the ensuing initiatives, such as the 'Everybody Needs a Pickup Man' campaign in Cheyenne and the Wyoming Contractors Association's yellow feather stickers, aimed at raising awareness and providing support. They discuss the significance of aligning suicide prevention methods with cultural values, especially within the tight-knit, self-reliant communities in Wyoming. Both Corso and Westby emphasize the importance of destigmatizing mental health issues, encouraging open conversations, and utilizing available resources like the 988 crisis lifeline.

Director Darin Westby's insights offer a valuable perspective on the crucial role that organizations play in addressing mental health and preventing suicide. By fostering open conversations, being culturally sensitive, and providing the right tools and support systems, workplaces can create an environment where employees feel safe and supported to seek help when needed.

This episode of "One Minute Can Save a Life" serves as a powerful reminder that mental health is a communal responsibility, and proactive efforts can make a significant impact on individuals' lives.

For more information on mental health support, contact the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline.

For more information on Prosper, go to the website

Hi, my name is Kent Corso, and I'm your host for this episode

of One Minute Can Save a Life.

While I am a licensed clinical psychologist, none of these guests

are my patients, nor does anything I say constitute medical advice.

The views conveyed during our conversations do not reflect the

views, positions, or policies of any private or public organization.

This is simply a series of conversations with people who have some connection to

hardship, suicide, mental health, or loss.

There is so much we can learn from one another, so let's get started.

Welcome, Darren.

Thank you.

Yeah, it's good to be here.

Appreciate the opportunity.

I just appreciate your willingness to talk about a difficult subject,

but a subject that doesn't have to be difficult for us to talk about.

Why don't you give us a quick overview of your role at Department of Transportation?

How many people do you supervise?

Maybe where you were before your current position?

Sure.

Darren Westby.

I'm the current director of Wyoming Department of Transportation.

Been here since March of 23.

We have roughly 2, 051 employees in the agency.

Prior to that, I was with a smaller agency, Wyoming State

Parks and Cultural Resources.

We had about 150 employees there.

We did Similar type work, but at a much smaller scale, but very impactful

agency, just like the Wyoming department of transportation as well.

A lot of great people, a lot of pride, a lot of passion in both divisions or

both agencies, but really appreciate the opportunity to, to chat about, like

you said, this difficult conversation, I really appreciate what you're trying to

do and your message and your direction.

So I really thank you for having the opportunity to be on the podcast.

You're welcome, Darren.

I'm grateful that we have the opportunity to help the state of Wyoming.

We are working in different counties, implementing PROSPER, which is the

Proactive Reduction of Suicide in Populations via Evidence Based Research.

One of our approaches is to not only work with those in the medical and mental

health fields, but to talk to people who are business owners, leaders within

organizations, whether those are private organizations or public organizations.

So I was very excited that you agreed to be on the podcast and talk a little bit

about your experiences with mental health and with suicide as I think about the

roughly 2000 people you are in charge of.

It makes me wonder if you've ever in the past encountered a suicidal employee

or even maybe a death by suicide.

Yeah, we definitely have here in YDOT.

We've had just relatively recently, we had an employee who died by suicide and

it definitely gave us the opportunity as an organization to really think

through and have the conversations that open up the conversations and the

dialogue that I think need to have.

Need to have period.

And I think unfortunately it takes something like that to get

it to a conversational level.

And I hope that we can continue that before anything else happens.

And we also had another employee of ours here, a good friend of mine,

her son died by suicide and she.

Went about creating a movement with Cheyenne frontier days here in town.

It's a large Western celebration, rodeo Western celebration.

And part of the rodeo perspective is to, we have what we call the arena

pickup guys, the guys that are the, The rodeo saviors, they're out there making

sure people can stay safe, rounding up the livestock and definitely helping

the cowboys out when they need help.

And so she started, uh, with the Cheyenne frontier days and the Cheyenne

frontier days foundation, what's called the everybody needs a pickup man.

It's yellow feather campaign.

So all the cowboys wear a yellow feather in their cap, just as a, as not just a

reminder, but an awareness perspective, be able to have the conversation.

Cause.

Yellow feather and a cowboy's hat.

Usually somebody is going to ask you a question.

What is that for?

What does that do?

And so it allows the conversation to get started and you have the ability to talk

about it and you have the ability to.

Get past maybe some awkward conversations of, Hey, that happened to me, or I'm

going through some turmoil right now.

Let's have that conversation and people are willing, if you're going

to stick a yellow feather in your cowboy hat, you got to be willing

to be a pickup man for somebody.

Maybe it's a loved one.

Maybe it's a friend.

Maybe it's.

Just a complete stranger that asked you the question that you can spend some time

with to talk them through some things.

But yeah, it's a great campaign and she used that opportunity

to create that movement and it's going across the country right now.

That's fantastic to take a tragedy and be able to pivot and do something positive.

Not just in any direction, but specifically in a direction to help

raise awareness in suicide prevention.

We can never bring people back, we can never make up for things,

but what a wonderful way for her to take all of that pain and push

it into a positive direction.

Yeah, definitely.

And, and it's, uh, being well received.

You look at the tough grittiness of a cowboy and cowgirl, and you think

they're tough, they're resilient.

They don't need this, but it's amazing how that whole industry and the whole

rodeo world, the Western celebration or the Western lifestyle, I should say, has

just grasped it and, uh, ran with it.

And like I said, it's across the country.

Also, she's part of the White Ott family, but we have a lot of construction crews.

Across the state and the Wyoming contractors association has also taken

that on as a lift for themselves too.

And so they created stickers.

For the hard hats, since you can't really stick a feather in a

hard hat, they created stickers, the yellow feather type sticker.

And so all the, a lot of construction crews, if you drive through

Wyoming, you'll see a bunch of orange or yellow hard hats with

a big yellow sticker on the side.

Again, you look at that industry, the construction industry has a high, high

suicide rate as well, and I'm pretty proud of the Wyoming Contractors Association

for stepping in as well and taking that on as a lift for them to try to

ensure that they're keeping an eye on their crew and making sure that their

crew understands that everybody needs a pickup man every now and then as well.

It's great that.

Both your department, but also private organizations like the

Wyoming Contractors Association are willing to invest in their people.

There was a time not too long ago where forget talking about it, let alone having

a campaign throughout an organization where an employer would take it on.

Uh, his or her shoulders to be responsible, try to take more of an

active role in raising awareness and preventing suicide among their workforce.

That's fantastic.

And of course, when we say pick up men, we're also, that's also the

person when someone falls off one of the livestock there, they pick

them up and get them out of the way.

So they don't get trampled, correct?

So it's not, it's literal, but it's also a metaphor, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

It works really well in the Western lifestyle world.

And that's, I thought it was just genius how they came up with that.

And that's probably another reason why it's being so successful

in the Western lifestyle.

And I know it'll continue what you just hit on.

There is something that we're doing in prosper uniquely to other programs.

And that is making sure that the message we're sending and the

approach we're taking Aligns with the culture that we're working with.

So whatever culture we're trying to reduce suicides in that everything we

do is consistent with their values.

For example, if we can agree that suicides of behavior and

behavior is very culturally driven.

What works for suicide prevention in Wyoming is probably not exactly what

works for suicide prevention in Seattle or San Francisco or Boston or Miami.

And so not only do values differ across cultures, but methods of help seeking do.

In all the work that we've done in Alaska, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho,

Utah, Arkansas, Virginia, and in other countries, what we find is that certain

populations don't really ask for help.

So we can say, go seek help, but we're kidding ourselves if we really

think that we're going to convince a group to work against their values.

And if, of course, those values are independent, self

reliance, grittiness, resilience.

Amazing that we're able to use the pickup man as a metaphor, because

oftentimes in the cowboy culture, people are not willing to accept help.

So can you think of other ways or other situations or context or examples

of where cowboys will accept help?

I've got a few, but you're the expert here.

I think just whether it be contracting out on a roadside or

in the arena or in that lifestyle, leadership is always helpful, right?

If you see your mentor, your person that you always looked up to, willing

to wear that yellow feather or willing to have that hard conversation with

somebody or willing to ask for help.

Which is not the easiest thing to do regardless, but seeing that the people

you look up to are willing to step in and do what's necessary to help a friend

or help even a stranger is definitely something that I think will resonate

when you start talking about culture and you start talking about how people.

Think and go through their lives.

Since I know in our world, we all definitely look into and

look up to a bunch of people.

And if it's, if it's okay for me to talk about it, then it must be

okay for everybody to talk about it.

And so that's why I'm a pretty strong proponent of what you're doing and

what we're trying to accomplish by destigmatizing, making sure that

people understand that it's not a.

Demographic thing.

It's not a socioeconomic thing.

It's not a discriminating type deal.

And being willing and capable of having conversations and trying to break down

those de stigmatizing, it's a shame that people get to that point because

they're afraid to have that conversation or afraid to reach out and ask for help.

And that, to your point earlier, you're resilient, you're tough, you don't

need help, that's BS, we all know that.

We all need help sometimes, and we all need to be able to feel comfortable

to reach out without any ramifications or any stigma that'll stick with

you for the rest of your life.

And that's what I hope that with your efforts and everything that is going

on right now, that we can continue to break down that barrier that

so many people find themselves up against when they get to that point.

If I were to try to break down that myth for a moment, do ranchers, do

farmers, are they solo operators within their farm, within their ranch, or they

don't have any help herding the cattle, they don't have any help tilling the

fields, they really do it all alone?

Wyoming is so sparsely populated that from a ranching, western lifestyle

perspective, for the most part, you are out there all by yourself.

You are doing a lot of things on your own and sometimes it's physical.

You're out in the middle of nowhere.

So trying to find help and trying to get help is difficult, whether

it's branding, whether it's moving cattle, whether it's haying, whatever.

But the one thing that they are good at is when they need help with a branding.

The community comes in and they all surround you and help you with the

branding, they help you with putting up the hay because they know that

you're going to be right there the next time that they're going to brand and

the next time they're going to hay.

I think this is just one more opportunity to say, if you're willing to do, call

in help for the physical efforts that you have to do on a day to day basis

in your way out to Boonee's Ranch.

And people will travel to help you.

We should be able to also pick up the phone and say, Hey, I need help on

this issue and have that conversation and request the help that you need.

So yeah, very good point.

No, I think you're making a great point, which is that they will ask for help

just under different circumstances.

And I would also.

Assume that they use tools.

They don't do everything with their hands, right?

Whether that means they're herding from a top of horse, whether that means

they're branding with a branding iron, there are tools that it's perfectly

within the ethos of the cowboy culture.

That we use tools and it's okay to do that.

So maybe the way we need to start messaging things and talking to

people is that we're just giving you tools to help yourself.

Of course, if you can call in people to help you, we want you to do that.

And if you're going to rely on your community, perfect,

because they know you best.

Better than some stranger would.

But also we all use tools, don't we?

Whether we're ranchers or farmers or heck you, you work in an office right now.

I work in an office right now.

I use tools.

We're using a computer.

We're using audio equipment, right?

Yeah, you're spot on.

And I like the idea that it's just another tool.

The opportunity to reach out is a tool and the people are tools.

So you utilizing them in the best way possible to be successful.

I agree, Darren.

And part of de stigmatizing, part of breaking down myths and barriers

also has to do with having a better understanding of suicide.

For years, people have thought that suicide is something that happens only

within the context of mental illness.

Or that if you're suicidal, it means you're weak.

If you think about ending your life, somehow you're not good enough.

You couldn't hack it.

You couldn't make it.

You And all of that stuff is nonsense.

We know that suicide is really a social problem, just like

homelessness or poverty or bullying.

It's not a mental health issue.

It's a social issue.

And we know that because many people think about it every year,

but because no one talks about it.

We develop these misconceptions about it, or we think that we're the only

ones who have struggled with it.

The reality is, many people struggle with it, but never act on it.

And so the more we start helping people understand that this is a social issue,

just like any other social issue, the more they might be willing to seek help for it.

Yeah, that's a great point.

And I, again, how do we make it easier for people to feel that way?

And I like your concepts of breaking that down, creating the easier

avenues for people to have the conversation, start the conversation.

And because you're right, I think everybody is.

Everybody's either has been touched or being touched right now with whether

be suicide because of mental illness or suicide because of some other

outside forces that are creating that that's, I think, getting to a point

where we can have those conversations in a more free, less ramification.

Feeling whether it's true or just made up in your head that I can't

talk because I'm afraid somebody will do something that's got to go away.

We just got to get to that point where people can speak freely

and move on with their lives.

When you say speak freely, it has to be a trusted individual.

So it could be family, it could be a friend, it could be someone

affiliated with someone's church or faith affiliation, but it

also could be someone at work.

In my experience working in, um, Customs and Border Protection, the

United States Air Force, and other federal and state settings, Your

frontline supervisors are really that first point of contact at work.

It's the person who the employee tends to know best.

Therefore it's a door that's cracked where they could

conceivably start that conversation.

Is that how you see it?

Definitely.

It's anytime you have the opportunity to create an easier conversation and

it could be, could be your coworker.

It may not be your boss, right?

Your boss might be that fear of ramification.

If I.

I have law enforcement in my agency.

I have the Wyoming highway patrol.

And if they start talking, their fear is if they start talking about what's

going on in their lives or their head, they're in fear of not retaliation.

It just, uh, can we have that person?

Doing their job.

Of course we can't.

We just need to ensure that they're getting the proper discussions

being had and, and make sure that they're in a safe space as well.

Exactly.

In the few years of work I've done with U.

S.

Customs and Border Protection, that organization has almost

45, 000 Law enforcement officers across the entire organization.

So when you talk about the highway patrol having concerns of career impact,

if they raise a flag, so meaning maybe their credentials get taken away,

their badge and gun get taken away.

The rubber gun squad is what we often call it in the law enforcement field.

That's a very real fear, but here's the catch.

If they don't talk about it, that means they're doing perfectly fine, right?

In other words, Yes, that's a very real concern that if I talk about

it, I could have career impact.

But if I am struggling and decide to kill myself, then I'm definitely

going to have career impact.

So on one hand, as leaders, we can't trick ourselves into believing that not talking

about it means everybody's good to go firing straight and just right on target.

And at the same time, if we are those people struggling, we can't convince

ourselves that to not seek help.

Is to thrive.

That's a great point.

And we, we implemented an employee assistant program separately with

the highway patrol that they can anytime feel overly comfortable

on a very anonymous way to be able to just have those conversations.

We get a bill and at the end of the month, we don't know who.

Called and talked, but we know we they were calling and talking, and I'm

very grateful to know that they feel comfortable enough to do that because

you think about what law enforcement goes through on a day to day basis.

And surely they have to talk through some things, what they see, what

they have to, what they have to do.

You think about coming up on, uh, an accident on an interstate.

There's Very likely a lot of injury and fatalities and so you have to

deal with that and that, that can weigh heavily on anybody, let alone

somebody that's a trained professional.

You're absolutely right.

We know, according to the research, that the more potentially traumatic events

a human is exposed to, the higher their risk for suicide and our men and women

in uniform in not only law enforcement, but the first responder community.

They are.

Voluntarily exposing themselves to potential trauma every single day.

So it's not surprising that they are at higher risk for suicide.

I just want to also point out that 988 is 911, but for suicide, it's been

around for a little over a year since the 988 number went live across America.

We've had over a 45 percent increase in phone calls to the crisis lifeline.

So that really important that people know that's anonymous as well.

Okay.

I think the anonymous thing is very important, and they keep it that way,

and I'm very happy to pay that bill every month, and I'm just grateful that

people are utilizing the services, and even outside of the Highway Patrol EAP,

we have one for all state employees, that they can call, they have, So

many hours per year free of charge.

Obviously, the 988 our governor, Governor Gordon and the legislature have been

standing up that process here in the state as well as funding it as well.

And so I'm very proud of the governor and the legislature for pushing that through

and making that happen because it's such a, it's such an important program to

ensure that there's tools out there for people to utilize at the touch of a phone.

It's such an important investment in the Wyoming communities to

not support 9 8 8 would be like not supporting a fire department.

It's just one of those necessary components that has to be available for

the community in an emergency situation.

Absolutely.

A hundred percent.

Darren, we should probably wrap up.

We only have about a minute left.

This podcast is going out across Wyoming and certainly within the government space.

Are there any last words you have for our listeners?

I just think for any employee, any person within the state,

there's resources out there.

If you feel like you need them, reach out 988 is the probably the best

way to get in touch with anybody.

But don't think you're alone.

Don't think you're the only one going through this.

We've all been touched by it one way or the other.

And it doesn't, again, it doesn't matter whether you're.

The governor of the state of Wyoming or a first year employee right out

of high school, everybody has been touched by this and it's time for us

to be able to start the conversation and to feel comfortable doing so.

And so you never know who or what you're going to do that could potentially

touch a life and save somebody.

Thanks so much, Darren.

Really appreciate your time today.

Our guest today is director Darren Westby, who's in charge of Wyoming

department of transportation.

Thank you.

And good luck with this program.

Thank you for listening to this episode of one minute can save a life.

Take care of yourself.

Take care of your neighbor.

Be bold.

Ask the hard questions because if you don't, who will?