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Hope for the Holidays: The Gift of Extra Time Post Myocardial Bridging Surgery
Episode 7719th November 2024 • Open Heart Surgery with Boots • Boots Knighton
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Hey Heart Friends. I sit down with previous guest, Jeff Holden, to explore the profound changes heart surgery brings into one's life. Jeff recaps his own battle against myocardial bridging, recounting the gratitude he feels every day. From open-heart surgery to life-altering dreams, Jeff unpacks the layers of his experiences, revealing how overcoming a near-fatal condition has fueled his passion for advocacy and storytelling. Curious about the life-changing dream Jeff had after surgery? Tune in to understand why this dream has become the cornerstone of his new mission and find out how he’s making a difference in the field of cardiology. Plus, discover the significance of a simple bracelet—a daily reminder to appreciate life’s small blessings.

Listen to Jeff's original episode here. You can find his podcast, My Imperfect Heart, anywhere you get your podcasts.

Join the Patreon Community! The Joyful Beat zoom group is where you'll find connection and hope that you aren't alone in your journey.

If you just want to support the show as a one-time gift (thank you), go here.

**I am not a doctor and this is not medical advice. Be sure to check in with your care team about all the next right steps for you and your heart.**

How to connect with Boots

Email: Boots@theheartchamberpodcast.com

Instagram: @openheartsurgerywithboots or @boots.knighton

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/boots-knighton

Boots Knighton

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Open Heart Surgery with Boots

Transcripts

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Getting to spend another day on the planet, to have my feet hit the ground

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when I roll out of bed, to take that breath in the morning and open

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my eyes. And I will say, over time, it's still

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easy to forget the reality of what's

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been done for us, any of us that have had the surgery,

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that we get to spend this extra time, hopefully doing

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something engaging with a greater degree of

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appreciation, with a more grateful

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nature. Hello. Boots Knighton here.

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Welcome back to another episode of Open Heart

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Surgery with Boots. Today is a

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very special episode for me. I

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am excited to bring you Jeff Holden

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for our third installment of Hope for the Holidays.

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But let me tell you a little bit about Jeff. So

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Jeff and I have met through a Facebook

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group for myocardial bridging patients,

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and Jeff was the very first

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interview I did for this podcast.

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Bless this man. Up, down, left, and right for

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putting up with me in my first ever

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interview. And I'm like, my face is hurting because I'm

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smiling so big. Because, first of all, Jeff, you said

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yes to this, like, person who had never podcasted a day

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in Her Light. You own your own studio, and we've

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become friends. Like, I'm always so excited

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just to, like, talk to you. You were so generous with

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your time then, and you're generous with your time now.

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And the other thing I absolutely love about you is how you're just like, I

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am a Chicago native. I have never met anyone from

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Chicago who was so proud to be from Chicago,

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and I have got to go visit that city just because you are so proud

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of it. So, of course, you live in California now,

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and you were absolutely thriving and kicking butt

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at making myocardial bridging

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more well known, more talked about in the field

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of cardiology. There's so much for us to unpack with

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your very positive update for Hope for the Holidays. But

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mostly, thank you for being my fellow heart buddy. Well, first of all,

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Boots, the. The first episode was a blast to do because it's fun to see

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somebody else get into podcasting and have a passion for it and have a

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passion for what the mission of the podcast is as

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well. So congratulations on your program and all

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that you're doing for people with open heart surgery, because I think they really do

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appreciate it. There's so much misinformation out there and disinformation

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and confusion when we get into, you know, any of these things concerning our

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hearts. So congratulations there. And, yes, it is a pleasure to

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say you are a friend. We've met at some of the Other podcast

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meetups. And it's so wonderful to be able

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to actually see and touch and get in the environment

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of somebody when you only have a virtual experience

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for the introduction. So congratulations on all of that.

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Thank you. Thank you. Let me give you a high level view of

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how we connected. So obviously we're both

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myocardial bridge patients. We've both had our surgery. We

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met on the Facebook group, and in my case, a little bit different. I'm a

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little bit after you. I'm about two and a half years, a little more than

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two and a half years out from my surgery. Similar situation. We go through the

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misdiagnosis, the challenges of getting diagnosed. I'm a little bit

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older. My whole situation happened a little bit faster. I had that

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heart attack that caused all these uncertainties of what was going on

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and how it could have happened when I was in great shape at the time.

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And it eventually led me to Stanford, where I actually had the privilege

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of meeting Dr. Trimmel. I didn't meet Dr. Schnicker at first. I

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met her after my surgery because I came in the back door through the emergency

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room and met with Dr. Boyd. Boyd performed my surgery

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a little bit different than most in that I also had a bypass, a

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Lima bypass. So I've got a myocardial bridge on

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roofing as well as the Lima bypass. And as a

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result of that, there was an epiphany for me in the

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process of the surgery, post surgery recovery,

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where I had quite the dream. And I

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will say the dream was a life changing dream

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because even to this day, it's still as vivid as it was the

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day that I had it, the day that I woke up after experiencing it and

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sharing it with my wife and just a tearful reunion when she came in the

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room. But it made me realize that a lot of different things

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that maybe I'd just been thinking about and they all came out and manifested themselves

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through this dream after the surgery. Maybe it was the drugs, maybe it was lack

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of sleep, I don't know. But whatever it is, I am so grateful for

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it. And you've heard me say many times on our program that

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these things don't happen to us, they happen for us. And as long as

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we keep the perspective of the fact that these

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things, almost everything happens for us. So, you know, we

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look at it and if we try to find the reasons and the positivity out

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of it, how we're going to cope, what we're going to do, what the adjustments

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are as a result of the situation, Whatever that

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situation be, in this case, for us, it was the myocardial bridge. For others, it's

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open heart surgery, it's bypass, it's all sorts of heart

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conditions that can be remedied through surgery.

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That there's a gratefulness that comes out of it.

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And certainly in my case, you know, that gratitude at 65

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years old, having lived a life and a career and a variety

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of experiences really took a turn

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to where there was an absolute necessity to do a better job of giving

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back and making sure that the people who have this condition

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have a better understanding of it. And as I was exiting the hospital on

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my release, my discharge day, Dr. Boyd came in. It

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was a Saturday. And I remember looking at him and saying, hey, I need you

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to do me a favor. I do podcasts for a living. I tell stories. I

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help people tell stories. I'm a communicator. I connect people.

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If this didn't happen this way

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to me, somebody who does podcasts and communicates and shares

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information, what else am I meant to do? I mean,

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that's about as clear an indication, at least in my mind, that this

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program is a necessity in the fabric of my life and my profession,

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what I'm going to do going forward. And I said, I need, Dr. Boyd, I

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need for you to be one of my first guests because

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you performed the surgery that so many people are uncertain about.

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They. They call it controversial, yet so many of us are

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benefited as a result of the surgery. And he said, absolutely. So

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as I was walking out of that room, I knew right away, this is going

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to be, you know, one of the things that we do. And again, as a

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result of the dream, which is a result of the surgery, which is a result

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of the condition, we do an incredible amount of

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programming for nonprofit organizations. And

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the nonprofit podcast network is another one of our

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vertical productions that we do from the studio. All born out

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of that dream. And that dream was, it was an

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epiphany to say, you need to do some things differently, and you need to really

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get your arms around what you do. And, you know, to say, I'm a

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grateful patient is really an under way, an

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underestimate of just the experience of

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getting to spend another day on the planet. To have, you know, my feet hit

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the ground when I roll out of bed, to take that breath in the morning

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and open my eyes, and I will say, you know, over time, it's

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still easy to forget the reality of what's

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been done for us. Any of us that have had the surgery

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that, you know, we get to spend this extra time, hopefully doing

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something engaging with a greater degree of

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appreciation, with a more grateful

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nature. And because we're looking at a month of

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gratitude, November. I appreciate what you're doing and

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the ability to say thank you and to

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recognize the people who have made our lives better as a

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result on any given day and to be able to share that with

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somebody, you know, whether it's, you know, a hello or hi, how you

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doing? With sincerity, you know, not just the, you know, the flippant,

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everything's good. Because we know that gratitude

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expressed with sincerity is a visceral reaction.

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It changes the. It literally changes the synapsis in the

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brain as a positive. And they do

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establish a memory. So the more you're grateful, the more you

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express the gratitude, the more likely you will continue to express it because the

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brain says, hey, this is a good thing. Let's keep doing it. And we had

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the good fortune of having a gratitude

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psychologist on the program last year right around the holiday.

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And we'll repurpose it again this year. Dr. Peggy

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Delong. And who would think there'd be a gratitude

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psychologist out there? But that is what she specializes in, right? I

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want her job. Right. That's

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cool. It really is. And she does a lot of public speaking,

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and it's obviously all on the nature of gratitude. Ironically, she

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had a heart condition scare. So she could relate

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to some degree to what we go through with our

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situation. Although she didn't need surgery, it was easily remedied.

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But I recall and I wear to this day. I don't know if

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you can see this. There's a black bracelet here and there's a little

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silver bead on it. She sent it to me after the program. She does these

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as her outlet therapy of sorts. She makes

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bracelets. This is the gratitude bracelet. And the little silver bead

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on there is a reminder to be grateful for something.

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Every time you look at that bracelet. Every time I look at that bracelet and

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I see that little piece of silver, it's like, hey, dope, don't. It's not that

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bad a day. Everything's good. You're still here. Be grateful for something. What is

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it? And it just reminds me to recognize,

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you know, the people, the places, the passions that I get to perform

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and things I get to do in my life that make

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it wonderful, you know, every. Every single day.

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So from, from that perspective, what a

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wonderful thing to put a series together of people saying thank you

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who have experienced, you know, a life threatening or a life challenging

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situation to where they can step back. And I know people

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say step back, smell the roses, do things differently. I certainly do.

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You know, if I'm out doing my exercise, which in my case is

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cycling, I would always blow by everything because I'm trying to just

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pace a little bit better or perform a little bit better today. I'll

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stop if I see something really cool. I'll take a picture of it, you know,

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and post it on that particular ride or send it to somebody and say, hey,

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check out what I saw on the trail today. Or, you know, this

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experience. Whereas, God, that never would have happened

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before. So many nuggets in there that I have question

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marks about. And thank you for sharing all of that. My

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biggest question that I continue to

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ponder is I know I could not be

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where I'm at now with my gratitude

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and my love for life without my heart

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surgery. Like I am just such an experiential

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learner. I could not have learned the perspective I

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have now through a book or a place of worship. Do

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you think what you and I have been gifted is

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attainable through teaching? I

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mean, it just seems like we are

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the lucky ones. Yeah, no,

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I don't think you can teach it. I think you have to experience it.

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We can profess it. I have a great deal of faith. I certainly

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do believe in a higher power. And I thank God every night

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and often during the day that I get to do what I get to do

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as a result of what could have been really either debilitating

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or death. I don't think it's something

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we can share and express without the experience.

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I think people can get close, they can understand

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and comprehend, but the experience of it changes

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that dynamic. It's not to say somebody else can't be grateful and express

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gratitude by any means. Absolutely, yes you can.

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But when there's that significant

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threat of loss of significant

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loss and possibly loss of life, life of loss of any ability to

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do anything any longer, and loss to

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the community you serve, loss to the people around you. And when you start to

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really think that through, which I didn't prior to,

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but post, I certainly do. And I'm more grateful

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for them than ever that I'm still here to get to see them,

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you know, whether it's, you know, our kids or our grandkids, you know, certainly

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my spouse, the people I work with every

Speaker:

day is, is just that reminder when you do see them

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that you've been given this gift, don't

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squander it and make the most of it. Do what you can with

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it. In spite of all the other stuff that you're going to deal with, in

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spite of all the other crap that's going to come up, because that's reality of

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just living. But to recognize nothing

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is as important as the ability to

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live a life fulfilled, you know, a grateful life,

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and one that you're giving back to somebody. To say

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that there was a benefit of that relationship, that

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association, even if it's just that contact with somebody

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in a casual sense. Yeah, yeah. I've

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been saying lately, I feel like the world needs heart surgery.

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You know, we. We had the benefit of a meetup

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and there were about 12 of us. 12 of us, which

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I can't. Maybe the biggest gathering of anybody with

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myocardial bridges together in one space. Not all

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surgically unroofed, but certainly the two that were in the room that

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weren't, were still very appreciative of where they were in

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their journey. And that's significant because they

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understood they are either moving down the path to recovery

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and surgery, or they've gotten to a point in their

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process where what they're doing is working.

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And hopefully for them, it will continue.

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You know, we know typically it deteriorates over

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time. Yeah. But again, depending on the severity.

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But that, that appreciation. And this was mostly couples, so they were

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with their significant others or spouses. And it was really wonderful

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to see the gratitude both ways, you know, from the

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spouse to the patient, the patient to the spouse, knowing

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everybody saying that there's no way I could do this without my significant

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other. And that in itself is an

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expression of gratitude. And you are doing

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incredible things with your studio. You had mentioned the

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nonprofit network. But then tell us about Imperfect

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Heart Podcast. Yeah, Imperfect Heart Podcast,

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available wherever you seek. Your podcast out is a

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program that was specifically designed for people with myocardial bridges.

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And what we do is we try to alternate the episodes.

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Patient, possibly on a journey, still there. They're not

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on roof. They haven't had their surgery yet. Or patients

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who have had their surgery, could be six months, could be a year out, could

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be five years out. As one of the longest term people that we've

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interviewed, and it's the expression of all that

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activity. What did it take? What were their conditions? What were the symptoms they

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were experiencing? How did they get to where they got. Did they have insurance issues?

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So it covers a gamut of their experience. Because the thing that we

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can't stress enough, and I'm sure you see it with everybody you speak with, there

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are no two alike. There are no two symptomatic.

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Experiences that are alike, similar, but not the same. And there are no

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two unroofing procedures that are like everybody's bridge is different. It's shorter,

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it's longer, it's deeper, it's obfuscated by something.

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So the nature of those stories, each one is

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unique to that individual. And each of the surgeons does the

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surgery a little bit differently. So we don't quite yet

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have, nor maybe we never will, a specific

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protocol that exactly do it this way. And I hope we get to

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a point where we know that there is an absolute best practice. But this is

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still new, and these unroofing procedures are still

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very fresh in the surgical

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world, having been done maybe 10, 12 years. I think Dr.

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Boyd probably still is the leader in terms of the numbers he's done. And it's

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only about 250 over the course of 12 years. So that's wild.

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Take your surgeon who's probably done 5, 6, 8, 10, maybe,

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you know, the robotic guys who have done the most, they've done maybe 30,

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40, 50. You know, we're not talking about thousands. No,

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you know, it's an aggregation of. And so the purpose of the program is

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really to give people that spirit of hope, to know you're not

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alone, that there are a lot of us out there who

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are experiencing the same thing, and to learn about proper

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procedure and diagnostics and what to look for, what to

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expect, what to get your head around in

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terms of what you're experiencing. And also, our

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objective is to find a doctor in each state that is

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performing the surgery. Now, we have some states where we have multiples, others

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where we have none, but we're working toward

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that goal of one in each state so that whomever is in wherever they are

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in the United States, we've got a place for you to go. We've got a

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gentleman that just finished his surgery about three weeks ago. To the best of

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our knowledge, the place he had to go. It was their first

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unroofing procedure, and he used all the tools from

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the podcast and the Facebook group to share with them. He's an

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engineer, so he was very specific in terms of what needs to be done. And

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they said, we think we can do this. They obviously do surgeries, and they do

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bypass surgeries, and they do aortic surgeries. And our surgery isn't the

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most complex. It's just novel, and

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so far, so good. Incredible. Look at all the good work you're

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doing. We have a surgeon in Sedona. We've got some really

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Cool episodes coming up from, you know, people that have traveled abroad.

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And we have a gentleman that he's from Perth, Australia,

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and he had his surgery done in all places

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Pakistan, because he had no money and he needed to go someplace.

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And there was a doctor in Pakistan that said, we can do it. And

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so he went there and got it done. And he's in great

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shape right now. So amazing. I mean, I just have to

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clap that. And this is the beauty of podcasting,

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because we get to hear about all this and

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our media isn't necessarily covering all that. And

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this is the good news. This is. This is the good in the

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world. This is the miracles in the world. And this is

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the beauty of living in the year 2024,

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going into 2025, when we can find each other

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across oceans and help each other. You know, I have to

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share. We just. One of the women who were at the

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meetup has a daughter who's a nurse who is a

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contributing editor to a digital

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magazine called Next Avenue, that's a PBS

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production, Public Broadcasting System production. And because of her

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mom's condition, she wanted to do an article on it, and they said yes,

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and it just got published. And they mentioned

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the podcast in there because it's a great resource.

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So I'm excited to say that people are starting to

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recognize the value of the communication of

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this often dismissed condition, you know, often

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misdiagnosed. And there is a big clinical

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trial being done, as you're aware, out of Yale. Dr.

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Sameet Shah is performing that clinical trial with 500

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cohorts, and he's got the majority now of

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the major clinics, Stanford, Cleveland Clinic,

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Mayo, UPMC in Pennsylvania,

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Houston. And they're all involved on this in

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attempting to set protocol for proper diagnosis

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not only of myocardial bridges, but any of the conditions that present with

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no apparent occlusion, no blockage.

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And he's, he's getting there, you know, so that's a step in the right direction

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if we can get to where people are saying, oh, yeah, this is a condition.

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We need to address this. How do we properly diagnose?

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Great. And they're using the Stanford protocol for testing, which is the

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provocative test that is definitive. And then of course,

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CT angiograms for anybody that has this condition is the noninvasive

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test that is the gold standard without having to go into a

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catheterization. So we're making progress. It's all too

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slow. I firmly believe people are dying from the condition,

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and it presents itself as just a coronary blockage. He Died, the

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widowmaker was blocked. She died, the widowmaker was blocked. But I think if they

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were to do autopsies on each of these people, that they would

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find that probably what it is in the population. One in four of

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them had a myocardial bridge. And okay, say I'm

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wrong. Call it 10%. There's 700,000 people a year that die

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from, you know, heart disease. That's 70,000 people.

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And let's say I'm wrong there and it's, it's 1%. That's

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7,000 people. So what can we do to

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improve that proper diagnostic and make the

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medical community more aware to look for this condition when somebody

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presents with something that doesn't make sense? Yeah. I mean,

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again, we're the lucky ones. Over and over. I mean,

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I'm just awestruck at. Even though

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the road has been really hard at times, incredibly

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hard, I'm still awestruck at how

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fortunate I feel on a daily basis. And I know you do too.

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Yeah. And I'm one of the blessed few who post

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surgery. Nothing. I've been fine. And that's what I wanted to

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ask you about is like, how, how did, how are you thriving?

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What is the secret sauce? I think back to

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the earlier part of the conversation. Everybody's unique. You know, I went into it

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in good shape, so that's a plus. But it's, it's

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a chemistry issue, it's an environmental issue, it's a mental

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issue. I think it's just all of these things combined, we just don't

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know. And everybody's going to have a different journey through the process.

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Some people are a hundred percent. We've probably got 50,

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60% of the people that we've interviewed are 100% back. Everything's fine.

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Some have some symptoms and, but, but nothing

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anywhere near what they had. And others, a

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very small percentage, have some other issues that

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have presented themselves, but they would have been pre existing, just

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unknown. So they're dealing with stuff now that they didn't realize that they had. And

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they have to get through that process in the next part of their, their unique

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medical journey to finish us off here. What is something

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that you just wish you could yell from the mountaintop

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to heart patients that will come after you because there will

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be folks that come after you and I. Right. That's why we both host our

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podcast. So what's that one burning piece of like,

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advice that you just need everyone, every heart patient to

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know? I'm going to expand that to the population at

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large because there's this big

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thing. It's called denial. And when we

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experience something, and it's men and women,

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I don't think it's impacted any greater on either side, because women will do it

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to protect because they have other stuff to do, and they want to continue to,

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you know, serve their family and do what they need to do, because in many

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cases, they're relied upon for that. So they'll suffer this

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chest pain and they'll recognize, oh, something's not right, it's angina,

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it hurts, but it goes away. Or, you know, I'm short of breath,

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but I just got to get this stuff done. Guys are, you know,

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macho. Stuff can't be wrong. I'm not going to go to the doctor. All that

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stuff is important. If you experience chest pain and shortness

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of breath, there's something wrong. And I don't

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recall your story in terms of, oh, yes, I do now. It just came to

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me. We all do it. You were climbing mountaintops and

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total exhaustion and going, no, I'll be fine. I'll just suck it up at the

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top. When I. I don't know what's wrong with me, but it's fine. And your

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husband's going, no, no, this is something should be easy for you to do.

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Same here. I mean, I went on five more rides when I was experiencing

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incredible chest pain that I couldn't have been a heart attack because

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I was in good shape. Couldn't have been my heart, you should say it manifested

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itself in a heart attack, but it's denial.

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So I say it to the population at large because the more of us

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that go into the medical community with the condition,

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the more they'll recognize that. That many more people are symptomatic.

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And if these people keep. If we as the people keep coming in and saying

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something's wrong and they can't find it, something's wrong and they can't find it, and

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they recognize, oh, this person has a myocardial bridge. I

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need. This person has a myocardial bridge. This person, they're going to say, oh, these

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things are symptomatic and they are

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relatively prolific. And, oh, my gosh, if we start treating

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these, how much better off we'll be. But when they

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say 1% of the population is

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symptomatic, meaning 25% of us have them, but only 1% is

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symptomatic, I say, BS man. That's not true. You're

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only hearing from 1%. We're the 1% that are coming to

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you and saying, we have a problem, we need to get it addressed and or

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you're dismissing the rest of them as anxiety and

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stress and out of shape, right?

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Women especially. Yes. Yep, yep. Women especially.

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It's mind boggling. Jeff, I could talk

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to you for the rest of the day. It's just so good to see

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you and thank you for all the light you bring to my

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life to other heart patients through your

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podcast studio. And I will make sure to put in the

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show notes how to find your podcast, how to find you.

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You are doing so many important things for

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the heart community and I could not be more grateful.

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Well, Boots, thank you. Just the opportunity to share this conversation

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with you on your podcast itself is a huge deal and

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it's an expression of opportunity. And let me

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say, I am grateful for you, for the ability

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to do this and get it out to your audience as well. Thank you.

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Well, you've heard it here folks. Thanks to Jeff Holden and

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thank you for being part of this podcast.

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Do let me know how you're doing. I always love hearing from

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listeners. You can get in touch with me in the

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DMS on Instagram. I definitely respond there.

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You can send me an email bootsheartchamber

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podcast.com I just

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absolutely adore all my listeners and I am here for you

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and I will not let you ever feel alone. You

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do not have to walk this journey alone. So be

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sure to join the community. Go to Patreon, follow me on

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Instagram, you can find me on LinkedIn. And remember that I love

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you, your heart is your best friend and you matter

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in this world. So you deserve to be the CEO of your

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health and keep advocating for being the

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best person you can be in this world. Come back next

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week for our last episode of Hope for the Holidays.

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