86. Breaking Barriers: Overcoming Mental Blocks Through Board Breaking with Heather

Artwork for podcast Mind Power Meets Mystic

Episode 86 • 12th April 2024 • Mind Power Meets Mystic • Cinthia Varkevisser & Michelle Walters

Hi, we're Cinthia Varkevisser and Michelle Walters, co-hosts of Mind Power Meets Mystic. Our weekly show is here to expand your mind to what's possible, to uplift your spirits, to move forward with confidence and joy, and to create a space for your collaboration with the invisible. Welcome to Mind Power Meets Mystic. Welcome to Mind Power Meets Mystic. I am Michelle Walters. I am the mind power hypnotherapist part of the equation, and I am here with my co-host Cinthia Varkevisser. She is our show mystic. We are very excited today to be talking to a good friend of ours, Heather Zeitzwolfe. Heather is many, many things. One of the things she is is a financial coach to creatives. She is also a vegan, an expert podcaster, and a frugal lawyer. And I'm sure more will be learned about that later. But we are here today specifically to talk to Heather and Cinthia about Heather's recent experience with board breaking. So Cinthia, tell us what board breaking is and take it away.

Okay, first of all, Heather, you know, I'm so happy to see you every time you just light up my life. Oh, thank you. I love being here with I got a twofer. I didn't know I was gonna get two for the price of one. Great. I'm super excited to but I know Michelle, if I know Michelle, she moved things around to be with our very special friend. You know, so thanks, Michelle for doing that. Okay. Let's talk about board breaking. So I'll set up the scenario, right? Our business coach. So if you go back to I think episode six to Katarina Rando. She is our business coach. He's an amazing coach about for speaking, sales, and business, podcasting, all those things. What she has done was something brilliant. In the middle of one of her big retreats, she has me do a little mini session of one of my retreats, which is unleash your inner badass, the piece that she took is the juiciest, which is board breaking. The thing that's cool about board braking is that it's a very fast way to transform. Because you're taking a look at something very physical, I mean, you can feel the board, you can see the thickness of the board. And you can start feeling that you know, whatever the thoughts and emotions are around it. And Heather has been really great and suggested that we talk about this, because Heather did something that I've never experienced before, in all my board breaking experience, which this few years of that. And that's that. She tried repeatedly for how many minutes, Heather, it was about 20 to 25, the first time that to get the board. And then I came back a second for a second round it. And she's the only person that broke two boards. Because the first the first board she broke was not the board that she had put her intention on. So what happens is that we put what is the thing that is blocking us, right, which is the board the obstacle. And then on the other side, what is the break through to the other side. So like the doors break. So let's talk about this. Heather came out. And there are two things. Actually, there's so many things in this 20 to 25 minutes that happened that I would love to talk about. But let's let's talk about your experience. And Michelle also did board breaking but let's go back, her board breaking before we did the board breaking. We did a full Friday night and a full Saturday of working through all this crap before we actually got to the boards. And we actually put a lot of energy into the board so that they get to sit with it for a really long time where you're pretty much shocked. And you know, you get pretty much handed the board and let's go. Right. So there you go. So tell me about your board breaking experience. Oh my God, there's so much to this. So let's just back up. So Cinthia and I were on a cruise together prior to this. And Cinthia brought a board in her suitcase that was supposed to be the board that I was going to break. And every day should take this board out, Hey, you want to break the board and I'm gonna leave we'll do it later. We'll do later. And so then there was like Not a Cinthia's part, there was pressure that I was putting on myself, because I actually told her, hey, I want to break a board. So she was just following through on my wishes and was like, hey, surprise, I brought a board for you to break. And then I'm like, Oh, wow, I gotta break this. And, you know, I don't know, I don't know why I did not want to break the board, on the cruise in the room. And I think, thinking about it now, it's like breaking the board, I needed to have an audience, like the breaking the board was never me, wanting to break the board, it was me proving to others that I could break the board. I didn't realize that until long after my whole experience, and the next day, and then having that realization of like, oh, that's what this is all about. So when Cinthia came to the event that I was at the one for Caterina, this was a speaking event, where it was the speaker's mastermind. And, you know, it was all women, we had all been getting along, you know, is great week, or, you know, several days. And we all felt confident what we were doing and all of that. So I felt like they everybody was my peer, so I had nothing to like, prove to anybody. It wasn't like I was like, oh, man, they think so less than me, you know, was nothing like that. And I was thinking about today, we were gonna have this conversation about the difference between jealousy and an envious. And to me, jealousy is something where you wish upon people that they didn't have that, that only you could have it, where envy is something where you're fine with them having it but you want it to. So the situation with the board that day, I'm not a jealous person. So like, that doesn't really enter my mind. But envy, I can be envious of somebody. So I was super happy when you know, somebody went up, they broke the board. I was like, Oh my God, that's so awesome. was like one try. And then I think another person went up. And I think that was probably like the third person. And I just assumed that I was going to be able to go up there and just break the board, it was just going to be super easy. And then when it wasn't, I was like, Well, I'm thinking to myself, well, why were they able to do it? And I wasn't. And so I had all these thoughts that were going through my head and thinking, Well, I have to be able to do this. I'm here at this event, you know, all these thoughts are just going through my mind. Like, I have to be able to do this. And of course, you know, I'm thinking, Okay, I'm just trying to do it. But I'm not like, I was never really thinking about like, this is something I want to do for myself. To me, it was I gotta prove to everybody, I can do it, too. So I think that I had completely the wrong mindset for one thing. And then of course, I went into my goofy mode of like, Dallas is a funny thing I'm doing you know, like, I was, like, I was thinking about how like, you know, in the Goonies, the chubby kid, he had the truffle shuffle, like he would like it. Like when the kids would tease him he would do his little belly dance or whatever. Like that's I was kind of doing my own Truffle Shuffle. Like I was like, Okay, I'm gonna be goofy about this, and thinking it's still gonna work and it didn't, and getting more and more frustrated with myself. And everyone was so gracious. They were cheering me on and all of that. And I had a word that I wrote down there, and I really don't even know what it was like maybe perfection and something. I mean, it was perfection. Okay, I was looking for the board. I can't find the board was perfection, and something on the other side. And since he was like, well, maybe this is the wrong word. Maybe maybe this is not supposed to be the word. And so then I was like, okay, and then some I think maybe Tracy rude or somebody's like, shouted or something. I'm like, Oh, that's good. And I just kind of wrote it on the board. And, and then I'm thinking like, that's my word. And then I'm thinking, like, maybe it got the wrong word, but then it was like, but if I don't break to this board, then I'm never going to like, I was like, it was getting superstitious at that point. Like, it was like, I have to because if I don't do this, then it's never gonna come true, you know? So then you're like, hey, why don't we just try a blank board? And you know, and so you put it out and I think maybe I hit it once and then I hit it a second time in a broke and then everyone cheered. And I was like, super frustrated because I was like, Yeah, so what I broke a board but it wasn't the one I was supposed to break. So that was super frustrating to me. And then I sat down but this was after like 20-25 minutes, something like that. My hand hurts so bad. Even though we had the brace on and everything because I was just hitting Enter like I wasn't really paying attention to like, you were supposed to go through the board. Like I was just like boom, like hitting it like like, debt deadweight and so on. My fingers would hit in I wasn't very precise, because I was just after a while I was just like swinging my arm I didn't, you know, it's just like, I'm just going through the motions. And then one of the women there, she does, like Reiki and all that kind of stuff. And she's like, Oh, let me use some, you know, channeled some energy around your hand, that hurts. And I was like, and I'm thinking to myself, like, one, I don't know if that really works. Sorry. I mean, maybe it does, too. I don't want it to heal. Like it could really work. But I don't want it to heal. I want to feel the pain because I have to suffer because I'm not, I didn't do it correctly. So we can talk about that part if you want. First, and then we can go into more of the story. But no, no, the thing that was so on the other side, I actually you were actually the teacher for everyone that day, in that exercise? Well, you know, let's let's be real, I'm not going to say who it was. But there was one person who had broken the board on the first time, had done it a certain way. And just assume that if they did it in a certain way, again, that they were going to break through to the board. And she didn't. And it was funny because she had a realization. So you were the only one that didn't break board on the first, you know, on the first try. But what happened is that you could see her mental adjustment, which is like, oh, it's not as easy. It's not a gimmick, you actually need to pay attention, right? So you weren't alone. The reason that you were the teacher? One is that you were super persistent. And the other was that you could just tell that you were thinking like you're thinking about the mechanics of it, you're thinking about all the things except for thinking about breaking the board. And then it's not about thinking, right, it's about sustained suspending your thinking and actually going into like, faith, trust, belief, that thing, but you never gave up. And that was in credible, incredible.

Well, I was you know, I was persistent about that. I mean, I thought I don't even care if my hand is sore. I don't care if I break my finger at this point, I'm breaking this thing. Be and then when I went up the second so I felt like very, like I was gonna cry. Like I was like, all set to cry. And then I felt like the kid in the 70s where you're at gym class and somebody hits you with the ball in your glasses or something right? And it hurts like heck, but you don't cry, because back then kids did not cry. Otherwise, they'd get teased. So we weren't, we didn't get to show emotions when we were kids. Especially not crying at least. But so I felt like that. Like I was like, oh my god, I'm that kid that can't play sports always like, and I was putting all that pressure on myself. And I'm like, why am I just like, and then I was getting like thinking to myself, like, Well, why am I getting so upset? Like, why does this even matter? Like most of the times, like sports, like I don't even care, you know, it's like, but no is thinking like, Okay, this, maybe it's a sport, and I'm just not good at sport. But then like, as each person went up, each person was breaking the board now, yes, maybe one. They may have gotten one hit and then a second. But they all did it. And then I'm like, There's something wrong with me. Why can't I do this? And then I was like, Okay, I want to try again after everyone went. And so of course, I'm trying again, trying again, with the boards that has my word on it at this point, I think maybe I've written three different words on the front, maybe or changed it a fourth time. I don't remember. But and some people were taking video and stuff. So you know, again, there's like the pressure. And then one of the participants said, You know what, I think it's because we're all standing here that you can't do it. Why don't we all go into the other room and leave you and Cinthia? I was like, No, I'm like, no, because you guys have to see me. Like if it doesn't happen unless there's witnesses like, since he is not, I mean, sorry, Cy

inthia. And we did the whole audience like this is a performer and me. And then I'm just thinking to myself, like, later on, I'm thinking like, Oh, this is like a performance. This is I was not, it was nothing about me. It was like me performing for people. And then thinking like, Oh, I'm the weirdo that never fits in. Everybody else can do it. Heather can't do it. And even though I'm fine with being the weirdo in the group, but then it's like those weird, like, being teased as a kid kind of thing. Like you just kind of go back to that, even though I felt like I was really over it really, all those things. So all these like, emotions came out. And then we had and then then what I learned was a lesson that I did not realize until the very next day. So you were like, Hey, why don't you try it with your foot. And I was like, okay, and I did it with my foot and it broke right away. To me. I thought that was cheating. But I guess that was okay. And so I felt really deflated that I was not able to break my board. I broke a blank board. And the only way I could break my board was if my foot it. And I was super down about it. I was upset. I was crying when I got back to the hotel room that night. And I kept thinking, like, why does this bother me so much. And then the next day, like, all these emotions were going through me, it was very weird. And then the next day, I kind of realized, like, oh, wait a minute, this whole thing was like to say that, like, we all get somewhere on our own path, we don't all take the same journey to get to the result. And I have all people should know that I usually take the road less traveled. So that made sense that I was the only one that broke it with my foot. And that was fine. I didn't have to use my hand. That was the thing was to break the board. And we didn't say it had to be with our hand. It could be with my foot. It could be with my head. I don't know, it could have been with my elbow, if that's the thing. But I didn't have to get there the same way. And it kind of just proved that, hey, I'm unique and different. And that's what stands out about me. So then once I realized that I was like, Oh, my God, okay, so relieved, because it taught me a lesson. And really through that whole thing, and probably I was the one that was most impacted, besides my board by this whole event than anybody else. So it was it was really, it was really a mind shift. Change. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, the beauty of this whole thing is, I believe your whole 20 minutes was recorded.

Right? Oh, yeah. Both times. It's about 40 minutes of and then crashing, board breaking attempts.

So what you see Michelle, is that you see something that's fun. That turns into this frustration, that turns into something that's like, like, you can see like this least like old things coming up, right, this these frustrations. And when Heather broke the board, and you can actually see it on the on the video, her energy changed. Because she actually stopped looking at the board. It was almost like she was focusing on something else. Like, you want to see me the break the board, you know, when you do that thing, like, oh, yeah, you want to see me do it. And then she wasn't really paying attention. But you saw the energy shift. And then she broke the board. It was really, really interesting.

That sounds really cool. I'd heard bits and pieces of this board breaking story. But this is the first time I've heard it in this magnificent detail. But it's very interesting to understand that you can see in the video a mindset change, right, a flip of a switch, something that sort of suddenly changed. That enabled a very stuck Heather to find her unique way through. Right, right.

Right. Well, and also when it was blank, the pressure was off. Like it was like, oh, and I thought it was just kind of like a like a throw like a Throw me a bone kind of thing. Like, oh, well, let's just put this blank one up, you know. And so it wasn't I wasn't really thinking about like, all the the stuff in me because I was thinking this is just a practice board. It wasn't like a verb board. And so when I broke it, everyone cheered. And you know, and I did smile. You can see me smiling in the video. But then it was like, I'm smiling. And then I'm like, Yeah, but I know I gotta go back and break that other board. And I did try for a while, I think and then I like I wanted to do a couple more. And then I sat down. And then I was upset again because I thought okay, I broke the board. It didn't break again. And then that was when it was like crashing.

So here's the other piece. When you finally you know, allowed the thought to to do it with your foot. The thing that you told me was that you were afraid that you were going to hurt your foot because you weren't wearing you were wearing some kind of shoes. I can't

Oh, I was wearing sneakers but I had like those like the no see 'em socks. That's what my ankle was exposed to. I'm thinking oh, I'm gonna get like pieces of wood through my ankle. Right.

So this is the so these are the things and the thing that again, which was humbling for me, was I think we actually held hands and I asked Heather if she trusted me. And I saw the trust in her eyes. And and then and then it happened and it was effortless. I didn't know exactly what happened the day after. But your your you sent a note and it was absolutely beautiful. What you what you wrote and if I had thought about it, I would have I would have brought it did you send it by? How did

I you know I think I posted Something with the video. And I kept as my emotions kind of changed and shifted over time, I wrote more and more things in the in the comments of the video because first I had one epiphany and then I hadn't. And then I was like, Well, wait a minute, that's not quite it. And then I had another. Yeah, so it was, it was like a series of like, women, this is what it means no, this is what it means, oh, wait a minute, this is really what it means. Right? And

it's one of those, it's the gift that keeps on giving. So now, so here's the thing, that's really funny. Um, the other women that came up to me, they talked about being, you know, surprised that they could do it, all that stuff. But I'm going to shift it to Michelle, because Michelle, we put a whole lot of thought into it. And, and so it was a different meaning. So how did it feel for you?

So the time when I did board breaking with you, maybe a year and a half or two years ago, now, we? Yeah, the boards, we had like colored them with markers, we had provided feedback to each other on the words. And I remember because one side the the word that I was like, ending was lonely. And the word that I was breaking into was connected. And it felt wonderful to break my board. And and I don't remember anybody having what Heather describes in terms of our group? I mean, yeah, I don't think I broke it the first the first strike, I think it took maybe two strikes or or even three. But I think it was a very different experience. What I'm really hearing from Heather, is how, how getting into kind of a spin and am I doing this for me? Am I doing this to show to other people? I can do it? What's my word? Do I do it with my hand? Do I do it with my foot? Like there's so much thinking in there and so much, so much thinking so much. Not not leaning into your internal heart energy, I think is a part of what Cinthia tries to illustrate with this exercise is that it's not really about, you know, the power of your biceps or your triceps. It's really about that sending of your own physical energy through the board, that that got how they're kind of in jam with the whole with the whole thing and how it came out. So I mean, I've seen this exercise, at least that one time, I think I've seen you do it at other times, too. But I've never seen anybody take it to the level that Ms. Heather Zeitzwolfe could take it to, she was actually really incredible. I mean, how there's tenacity definitely showed through. But let me let me ask you this. Heather, how'd you feel about all these women all of a sudden, making suggestions?

Oh, well, again, you know, when they were going up there, each one and they were able to break the board. I was happy for everybody. Like I said, it wasn't like, Oh, she's doing it. You know, I mean, these are women that I don't think I would have been that way anyways with people. But I just, you know, these were women that I had come to really like and enjoy. And I was so happy that they could do it. But I was really angry at myself that I couldn't do it. As far as their suggestions like, oh, a different word or go in the room. I mean, it was all I was feeling pressure because I felt like I was holding everybody up because we were going to go have dinner and I felt like oh, now it's me being the troublemaker. I'm the one that's taking the longest. And then it was like, Well, I guess it could go to the restaurant, but then they won't see me when I break the board. So what's the point? You know? So it was it was less about what people were saying and more about what was going on that I was saying in my head. It was all about the chatter that was in my head and trying to get that to go away. Now I'm

glad that you talked about it because here's the thing that I found really interesting is actually do a an exercise around this as well. Sometimes it's really hard just to witness. Right and that's a lower learning moment for everyone else. And there are all these amazing women who are fired up that felt your anxiety, your pain, right, and they were trying to alleviate their uncomfortableness around your feelings and thinking. And so the suggestion And actually, if you think about energy, right, what they did is, what they did is that they put in energy that wasn't in alignment with the energy of what was supposed to happen. Right? The funny part, the person who said the least? Caterina.

Oh, yeah. When they Yes, but at the very end, she was like, I, you know, I respect you for your like your your tenacity or something like that like, yeah. Yes, exactly.

So that's so it was humbling from in, that's why I say you were the teacher, you provided a space or an experience, that everybody got to feel something. And the spiritual thing to do the energetic thing to do, would be to hold space for you, right. And Caterina kept holding space, which I really respect her for that. And she actually came up to me and said to me, after you had done your first one, she said, I see you, I see you and how you coach. And that was also a really lovely thing. So out of this experience, you had all these things going on. And it was there was tension, there was excitement, there are all these things. And then I was wondering, how surprised were you when you when you broke the the blank board, which just so you know, Michelle, I only had one extra board. And luckily, I was going to break it to show them how you could break it with your, you know, with your feet. So for some reason, I decided not to do that. And it gave the opportunity to use a blank board. So, you know, I saw it on your I said, we saw it on the film, but what was your What was your thought process? Or? I suppose for you?

Well, you know, for one thing, you were a very good coach with, you know, and very patient with me, and you're looking exactly at what I was doing and giving me pointers and, and all of that stuff. So you were like the perfect coach. I just wasn't the perfect student in that role. Because I wasn't, I was like, thinking to myself, like, yeah, yeah, yes. It's like, I got to just prove this to you. Like I'm like, okay, oh, yeah, put it up. And you know, bring your arm down. I'm like thinking like, aren't I doing that already? Like, I didn't get it, like it just did. And like, you were like, your hand goes through the board. Like, this doesn't go through the board. It goes through the board. Like there's no through. And so I you are given me all the right. Things to do with how to align my arm how to, you know, but again, I'm thinking like, what's the difference? Like, I mean, aren't I doing that? Like, I wasn't? I don't think I was truly like, I thought it was listening to you. But I don't think I was because I was so in my head. So I wasn't being disrespectful to you. It was just like, it was like, and I knew that you know? And then of course I'm like, but I have to do this for Cinthia and you look so cute. In that outfit. You had that like really cute, like, almost ninja ish, kind of groovy outfit. I don't know what it was. But it was really cool. And, you know, of course me on my video, I'm wearing a fascinator. You know, it's like, I'm like, come on, can I do this, you know? And then when I broke the board, yeah, I felt good. But it was like, it was like a millisecond. And then I was like, Oh, but I didn't break the board. I broke a board, you know,

But weren't you surprised? The look on your face. I mean, so do you ever think about that moment? Because here's the thing, the way I see it is that there was a moment where you were not focused on the board. And that's the time that you broke it. And then there was a look of surprise. Do you ever go and think about that, that one moment where you weren't in your thoughts about the board?

You know what, Cinthia? I have to say, I don't really I haven't really thought about that. I mean, I just like I see it on the video. And it's like, that's cool. That shows me That's it. That's the part where I break the board. But I don't really think about that. Like, to me, it was more of the whole experience. Like, yeah, it wasn't really about the board breaking really seriously when you get down to it. I mean, it was, hey, why can't I do this? And then, I mean, yes, it was about the board breaking, but I mean, like when the board broke, I'm like, okay, whatever, that wasn't it. You know, I had a happy moment. It's on video. I'm glad it's on video. And I can like, Hey, I broke the board. But um, yeah, I don't really give that much thought to that, to me, like the board was when I broke it with my foot. Like I think about that more. Right? Like, okay, that was that was my moment of like, oh, I have to do it differently. Like, and again, I had to do differently with the blank one. I was the only one that did a blank one. So there you go. And I was the only one that broke two boards. So you were the only one that broke two boards. It was pretty hilarious. Just so you know, Michelle, people wanted to stop at the blank board. So, but it didn't feel too bad. Let's just be honest. It didn't feel complete. No,

no, I felt I felt ripped off. I was like, No. And then again, I felt like the superstition of like, if I can't break this, the real board, what's going to be haunting me for the next year that I was supposed to be breaking through? But you know, like you said, will probably wasn't even the right word. And the fact that I can't even remember Oh, perfection, like, what? Why did I read that? Like, I think also, we didn't have time to really think about what our word should be. And there was that pressure to write something. And it really, I mean, that whole week that I was there, it wasn't about perfection at all, because I wasn't worried about that was I don't know where that word came from. Um, so it wasn't the right word.

Right?

I think as you guys are talking about it, that there's a real difference between the way that Cinthia did it in the retreat that I attended, versus the occasion where you guys are talking about that, that very likely, it wouldn't have been something I thought of, but by having so much more time and attention that we put in, in the my experience into the board, that it made the notion of like, oh, just get me through this, like, I just need to end this kind of thing. Whereas you're describing an experience where like, there's just so much going on, and there's all these people there, and we haven't really thought about the word and, you know, it's, it's, it's an interesting description of two very different scenarios. Yeah, both doing the same action, that would seem to be the same. Mm hmm.

It's true. I mean, if you think about it, I have in this piece, which is why it's just it's a little piece, and you do get very different experiences. Because the board in Unleash your inner badass is really symbolic. And it's a ritual just to get rid of the symbolic thing where for you, it's true. When you when I saw the word perfection on there, I was like, Heather, that is so not you, I do not see you as a perfectionist at all, as a matter of fact, I see you as the great experimenter. Yeah, you know, and so that part cracked me up. And so that part is really hard. The, the goal of breaking the board is just to see that you can do something that you didn't think that you could do. And the payoff is so much different. So different, which is another reason why I was really happy that you had this Well, I wasn't happy for you. But I was happy that we had this pretty intense experience. And, and that you got so much out of it. And I did as well. And if we were to have if we had time, if I could, like show everybody that it was the best teaching experience or moment, probably, you know, don't tell Kennedy and I said this, but probably of the week, because it saw people at their core doing their, their core in their core things that are not in alignment with their core with that makes sense.

But yeah, and you know, I think about like, where did that word come from? And it probably was because we were there for a speaking speakers mastermind thing. And I'm thinking like, you know, pattern is a perfectionist that required, you know, I'm like, Okay, I don't have to be perfect when I speak. And so I think I was taking that word and but that wasn't my word. Like, you know, okay, that's just some element of like, what I was there for for that week, but it wasn't like the word I had to break through. So yeah, and yeah, I'm

just want to call out one little thing that I know you guys already brought up. But it's because I adore Cinthia so much. And I have gone to like so many of her thing after thing after thing after thing. And one of the things that came up in this story today is that after, after all of this, Cinthia sort of just standing there still holding the board, kind of not saying a lot, sort of letting the moment just sit there while everybody you know, it's it's letting things sometimes sit in a place of discomfort, not forever, but for a period of time. Because it's that discomfort that then can help somebody get to the place of realizing what what is the AHA, out of the whole thing. And curiously, all the ladies they're trying to give pointers in that kind of a thing. They're trying to rush out of that discomfort, right Cinthia and Caterina experienced coaches familiar with this kind of activity understood that sometimes there's value in sitting in that discomfort and having to figure that out. And I think that's one of the great things that that is illustrated by this particular example.

I thought of one other thing that I want to add to the of that. So I had mentioned that the person was doing the Reiki or whatever the energy healing, and I was, and I don't want it to heal, right. And then it My hand hurts so bad when we went to dinner afterwards. But I have to say, when I woke up in the morning, and I had that realization of my like, my aha moment, my hand suddenly didn't hurt. And, and it had hurt on, you know, during the night, and I was starting to have like epiphanies about like, I was like, Oh, yes. But it wasn't till I had that real aha moment in the morning. Like, I have to take a different path. That's just like who I am. And that's okay. Um, that's when my hands stopped hurting. It was just amazing. So maybe there was something to that energy thing.

Yeah, well, we are fans of believing in the energy thing, even when it ain't obvious exactly where and how that energy comes through. And that's why this show used to be called it's all connected. And that's why we'd like talking about all of these sort of like, weird and serendipitous events that you know, maybe Reiki had to do with it. Maybe thou hast had to do with it. Well we are delighted in having you on our show today. I've had a great time listening to your board breaking story so much different from mine and filled with so many lessons. Thank you for being our guest again on mine power meets mystic.

Thank you for having me. It was great. Thank you.

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