In this episode of The Ecommerce Podcast, host Matt Edmundson welcomes back Raul Galera from Referral Candy to discuss the latest trends in Ecommerce. Raul shares insights from their Ecommerce Agency Confidence Index (EACI), a monthly report gathering data from around 100 agencies worldwide. They explore how global events like the US elections might impact Q4 sales, the paradox of price sensitivity versus outsourcing in Ecommerce, and the enduring optimism of entrepreneurs in the face of uncertainty.
---
Timestamps:
0:00 - Introduction and welcome
2:27 - Catching up with Raul Galera
5:24 - Discussing the Ecommerce Agency Confidence Index
8:53 - Black Friday and Cyber Monday expectations
13:09 - Impact of global events on ecommerce confidence
19:48 - Marketing strategies during uncertain times
23:33 - Price sensitivity and outsourcing trends
31:25 - The future of agency models
37:52 - Raul's question for Matt
38:32 - Closing thoughts on agency optimism
---
Key Takeaways:
1. Focus on building a community around your brand. Raul emphasised that brands that work really well are those with a strong community. This doesn't necessarily mean a physical community, but rather a group of customers who identify with your brand even before purchasing. This community can generate word-of-mouth marketing and user-generated content, which can be leveraged across platforms.
2. Consider the value of outsourcing to agencies. Despite increased price sensitivity, brands are still choosing to outsource to agencies rather than hiring in-house. Agencies offer intangible benefits such as access to collective knowledge and data from multiple brands, which can be invaluable for navigating uncertain times.
3. Stay optimistic but realistic. Raul noted that even in challenging times, agency owners and entrepreneurs maintain a positive outlook for the future. This optimism is crucial for success, but it's also important to balance it with realism to avoid overselling and under-delivering.
---
If this episode of the eCommerce Podcast piqued your interest make sure to check out everything that gets done over here on the eCommerce Podcast, a space dedicated to eCommerce Wow!
Well, hello and welcome to the Ecommerce Podcast
Matt Edmundson:with me, your host, Matt Edmundson. Now, this is
Matt Edmundson:a show all about helping you deliver Ecommerce.
Matt Edmundson:Wow. And to help us do just that, we've got a
Matt Edmundson:special guest, someone who has been on the show
Matt Edmundson:before, Raul Galleria from Referral Candy. Now,
Matt Edmundson:Raul was on the podcast in 2021. We talked about
Matt Edmundson:referral marketing and if you've listened to that
Matt Edmundson:episode, you'll remember how good it was. So I'm
Matt Edmundson:really, really looking forward to this
Matt Edmundson:conversation and getting going again. Raul
Matt Edmundson:reached out to me a few weeks ago and said, matt,
Matt Edmundson:I've got some really interesting stuff. Can we
Matt Edmundson:chat about it? And I'm like, of course we can. Of
Matt Edmundson:course we can. And before we get into it, let me
Matt Edmundson:just say very warm welcome to you. Especially if
Matt Edmundson:this is your first time with us on the Ecommerce
Matt Edmundson:podcast, It' great to meet you. Do reach out to
Matt Edmundson:me on social media, Edmundson. You'll find me on
Matt Edmundson:LinkedIn, on Instagram. It'd be great to connect.
Matt Edmundson:Let me know what you're doing, Let me know about
Matt Edmundson:your business. I was just talking to a chap
Matt Edmundson:called Dylan earlier on today. Dylan, if you're
Matt Edmundson:listening, hope you're doing well. And we were
Matt Edmundson:chatting about his ecom business and he said to
Matt Edmundson:me he found the podcast in August, right. And
Matt Edmundson:bearing in mind the time of recording, this is
Matt Edmundson:October and he's already caught up. Right. And
Matt Edmundson:we've been on air five years. That's some going,
Matt Edmundson:not going to lie, some going. And I just have to
Matt Edmundson:apologize for the sheer amount of my voice in
Matt Edmundson:that time. But anyway, do reach out. Be great to
Matt Edmundson:hear from you, great to connect with you and of
Matt Edmundson:course, if you are a regular to the show, a warm
Matt Edmundson:welcome back. Now, let's talk about Raul. He is
Matt Edmundson:the chief advocate at Referral Candy, which is
Matt Edmundson:the go to app for E commerce brands looking to
Matt Edmundson:grow through customer referral programs. He has
Matt Edmundson:got over 10 years of experience. He's been a
Matt Edmundson:Referral candy a wee while, as we say, which has
Matt Edmundson:empowered 30,000 plus brands to turn their
Matt Edmundson:customers into a marketing force. Love that
Matt Edmundson:phrase. For the past five years, Raul has led
Matt Edmundson:partnership efforts connecting with marketing
Matt Edmundson:agencies, media and tech companies to boost
Matt Edmundson:growth without spending on ads. So, Raul, welcome
Matt Edmundson:to the show, man. Great to have you back. How are
Matt Edmundson:you doing today, good sir?
Raul Galera:I'm doing pretty good. Thanks for having me again.
Matt Edmundson:Oh, no worries. Always great to have you back on
Matt Edmundson:the show, man. Always great to talk to you. We
Matt Edmundson:were talking before we hit the record button I'm
Matt Edmundson:sort of slightly envious of the weather that you
Matt Edmundson:have where you are versus the weather that we
Matt Edmundson:have where I am. You need air conditioning, I
Matt Edmundson:need a heater. And it's amazing because we're
Matt Edmundson:only a few hours apart how just a few degrees on
Matt Edmundson:the old equator changes everything. But, you
Matt Edmundson:know, there it is. So it's been what we were
Matt Edmundson:saying. In fact we looked at the date. It was
Matt Edmundson:sometime late, late September, wasn't it? When
Matt Edmundson:you're on the show in 21, which is, it's almost
Matt Edmundson:like you said, the three year anniversary.
Raul Galera:Yep.
Matt Edmundson:So what's been going on the last three years?
Raul Galera:A lot. Yeah, we talked end of 2021, which we were
Raul Galera:pretty much still at the peak of kind of like
Raul Galera:Covid fuel Ecommerce growth. You know, 2021 was
Raul Galera:still a year in which companies were getting, you
Raul Galera:know, crazy amounts of funding. Everyone in the
Raul Galera:space was, you know, growing with again just like
Raul Galera:cheap borrowing lots of money available for, for
Raul Galera:funding for DTC brands. So things were going
Raul Galera:pretty well for everybody, you could say in the
Raul Galera:Ecommerce world. 2022, we started to see a little
Raul Galera:bit of a, kind of like, you know, darker clouds
Raul Galera:in the horizon and that kind of materialized in
Raul Galera:2023, I think, in which I was just talking to a
Raul Galera:few people a couple weeks ago about it and you
Raul Galera:know, I was saying how some brands in 2023 said
Raul Galera:that, you know, it was almost a flat year. And
Raul Galera:some of them said actually flat year being a flat
Raul Galera:year was almost like the, the positive scenario,
Raul Galera:you know, for, for a lot of brands, like if you
Raul Galera:were just flat on 2023, you know, you could, you
Raul Galera:know, pat yourself in the back and you know, it's
Raul Galera:like, good job. Right? You kind of, you made it.
Raul Galera:That being said, we had a lot of growth around
Raul Galera:the Black Friday and Cyber Monday mark last year.
Raul Galera:A lot of people say that it was, you know, fueled
Raul Galera:by, you know, kind of like buy now, pay later
Raul Galera:type of debt, that we don't know what's going to
Raul Galera:happen in the future. But I mean the numbers are
Raul Galera:there and you know, we're entering again since
Raul Galera:October 7th. Today we're heading into Black
Raul Galera:Friday Cyber Monday fairly soon. Brands are
Raul Galera:getting ready for that and there's always this,
Raul Galera:you know, there's like this big question of
Raul Galera:what's going to happen. It's going to be bigger
Raul Galera:than last year. How are the US Elections going to
Raul Galera:play out in all this? So yeah, one of the
Raul Galera:initiatives that we put together kind of because
Raul Galera:of all these unknowns that A lot of agencies are
Raul Galera:having. We put together this confidence report to
Raul Galera:try to shine some light on at least what other
Raul Galera:people are thinking and kind of like, what's the
Raul Galera:mood around Ecommerce agencies on a monthly basis.
Matt Edmundson:Great. So just. It says here that the confidence
Matt Edmundson:report involves gathering data from around 100
Matt Edmundson:agencies on a monthly basis. You guys are
Matt Edmundson:creating therefore a confidence index, which I
Matt Edmundson:just, I think is such a great phrase, and
Matt Edmundson:tracking trends in Ecommerce, such as how brands
Matt Edmundson:are spending on marketing, hiring agencies,
Matt Edmundson:versus in house, and much more. So you've been
Matt Edmundson:putting this confidence report together, which I
Matt Edmundson:really like the idea of, by the way. Thank you.
Matt Edmundson:The agencies that you're talking to, are they all
Matt Edmundson:marketing agencies? Are they a variety of
Matt Edmundson:agencies? What kind of agencies are we talking to
Matt Edmundson:here?
Raul Galera:One thing that they all have in common is that
Raul Galera:they are Ecommerce focused. So I would say the
Raul Galera:majority of them are marketing agencies because
Raul Galera:there's a bunch of questions that are about
Raul Galera:marketing budgets. And so obviously they're the
Raul Galera:ones that I would say the vast majority of them
Raul Galera:have touched kind of marketing with their
Raul Galera:clients. Probably kind of like, I would say the
Raul Galera:main difference between all these agencies is how
Raul Galera:they attract customers. So I would say there's
Raul Galera:like two big groups of agencies, one of them that
Raul Galera:are just like pure, you know, marketing ads type
Raul Galera:of companies that focus on that or SEO, you know,
Raul Galera:kind of type of thing. But like they focus just
Raul Galera:100% on marketing. And then the agencies that do
Raul Galera:like website builds or migrations or redesigns
Raul Galera:and then kind of keep that customer on retainer,
Raul Galera:typically with some other types of services that
Raul Galera:may include marketing or just maintenance or
Raul Galera:whatnot. But yeah, the one thing that they all
Raul Galera:have in common is that they're almost 100%
Raul Galera:focused on Ecommerce.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah. Which is great. And are they worldwide or
Matt Edmundson:are they just focused in one particular area?
Raul Galera:Yeah, I don't have the numbers for me right now,
Raul Galera:but I think it's like 50% US and Canada and then
Raul Galera:like, I think like 30% Europe and then the rest
Raul Galera:between Australia and Asia, Latin America. So I
Raul Galera:mean, it's kind of leaning a little more heavily
Raul Galera:on Europe and the US But I'm actually in the
Raul Galera:process right now kind of getting more agencies
Raul Galera:from Australia as well. So we can get kind of
Raul Galera:that side of the world as well. But yeah, I'm
Raul Galera:trying to keep it as open as possible.
Matt Edmundson:Fantastic. And so your job then is you're growing
Matt Edmundson:this, you're getting more agencies on board. Just
Matt Edmundson:a quick pled. Then if you're listening to the
Matt Edmundson:show and you're an Ecommerce agency, then do
Matt Edmundson:reach out to Raul. How do they get hold of you?
Raul Galera:Yeah, so I mean, they can find me on Twitter. I
Raul Galera:think my ad is raulgalera D. Or just search for
Raul Galera:roller referral candy. You'll find it. Otherwise,
Raul Galera:on our website we have the report and we have
Raul Galera:like a little call to action where you can, you
Raul Galera:know, if you want to be a partner agency, you can
Raul Galera:submit and says referralcounty.com EACI cool.
Matt Edmundson:EACI.
Raul Galera:Yeah.
Matt Edmundson:We will of course link today in the show notes as
Matt Edmundson:well, which you can get along for free at the
Matt Edmundson:website ecommercepodcast.net and of course, if
Matt Edmundson:you're listening to this on your favorite podcast
Matt Edmundson:app, they'll be on that as well. Just scroll down
Matt Edmundson:and they'll be there and just click the links
Matt Edmundson:through to Raul. But so let's jump into it then.
Matt Edmundson:You know, you've got this confidence report.
Matt Edmundson:You're talking to e commerce agencies all over
Matt Edmundson:the world, all of whom Ecommerce commerce as
Matt Edmundson:clients, and they can see what their clients are
Matt Edmundson:doing, where they're spending and so on and so
Matt Edmundson:forth. At the time of recording, it's October.
Matt Edmundson:We've got Black Friday Cyber Monday coming up. Is
Matt Edmundson:that a big deal right now for agencies?
Raul Galera:Yeah. And so I would say that that is probably
Raul Galera:what is driving most of the confidence in
Raul Galera:Ecommerce right now. Okay. So when we started the
Raul Galera:report last year, the first month that we did
Raul Galera:the, the first report that we put out was in
Raul Galera:January 2024. So we started doing research on. In
Raul Galera:December. And you know, with that, we, you know,
Raul Galera:we're pretty much asking agencies that were, you
Raul Galera:know, kind of in the middle of the hangover after
Raul Galera:the Black Friday Cyber Monday and holiday kind of
Raul Galera:season sales from last year. So confidence, I
Raul Galera:mean, actually that was the highest level of
Raul Galera:confidence that we've registered since, since
Raul Galera:January. It's been, you know, going downhill
Raul Galera:pretty much up until like June. It's when it
Raul Galera:started to pick up again. July, August, September
Raul Galera:have been going up, but still in the second kind
Raul Galera:of highest month in terms of confidence has been
Raul Galera:this month. I mean, September, but still it's
Raul Galera:nowhere close to what we register in January. So
Raul Galera:I have the feeling that, you know, it's kind of.
Raul Galera:It's getting. Well, I guess we'll see. You know,
Raul Galera:obviously if we continue doing this next year,
Raul Galera:we'll be able to compare notes, you know, one
Raul Galera:year versus other. But it seem to me that it's,
Raul Galera:it's fairly seasonal in sense of like you know,
Raul Galera:kind of like summer months, obviously slower and
Raul Galera:like everybody's kind of always looking forward
Raul Galera:to that. You know, black friends have Monday type
Raul Galera:of, type of event that kind of defines the year.
Raul Galera:And so. And again, we were talking about it
Raul Galera:earlier where in the last year, which was for a
Raul Galera:lot of brands was flat at best. They were looking
Raul Galera:forward to that Black Friday Monday event. To
Raul Galera:just see. Yeah, to see, like, okay, let's just,
Raul Galera:let's just close the year. Like, let's just see
Raul Galera:if it was really a flat year. It was positive,
Raul Galera:negative, like, you know, so. But, you know, we
Raul Galera:can't really say anything about 2023 until we hit
Raul Galera:mark. Right. And so it looks like it's pretty
Raul Galera:much the same happening this year. So 2023 all
Raul Galera:over again, really.
Matt Edmundson:So people are finding it quite flat at the moment.
Raul Galera:So I would say, I mean, it's, I mean, like 2023
Raul Galera:all over again when it comes to that excitement
Raul Galera:about Black Friday and summer Monday. Like, it's,
Raul Galera:it's. I don't, I don't think it's been that flat
Raul Galera:of a year, but there has been seasonality and
Raul Galera:again, it's not necessarily like a. From what.
Raul Galera:Again, from what I've seen on the, on the
Raul Galera:responses that have gone from agencies, it hasn't
Raul Galera:been that kind of sustained growth that you're
Raul Galera:kind of looking forward to.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah, that's interesting is if I was to think
Matt Edmundson:about my own experience, I'd say 2024 was
Matt Edmundson:definitely better than 2023. Yeah. Certainly in
Matt Edmundson:our online businesses, in our agencies and, you
Matt Edmundson:know, the people that we partner with and so on
Matt Edmundson:and so forth, this year seems to have been. It's
Matt Edmundson:not true for everybody, obviously, but on the
Matt Edmundson:whole it sort of feels slightly better. You've
Matt Edmundson:got a few key events coming up at the moment,
Matt Edmundson:which I think is really interesting. In the uk,
Matt Edmundson:we've got the October budget. So this is where
Matt Edmundson:the government decides how they're going to try
Matt Edmundson:and fill a big 20 billion pound tax missing hole.
Matt Edmundson:So everyone's slightly concerned about that, but
Matt Edmundson:at the same time, not. Obviously, we've got Black
Matt Edmundson:Friday Cyber Monday, which people are building up
Matt Edmundson:for. So I do wonder if retail sales have slowed
Matt Edmundson:with the new government and everyone's going to
Matt Edmundson:wait to see what happens and then obviously we've
Matt Edmundson:got Black Friday Cyber Monday, you mentioned it
Matt Edmundson:earlier. We've got the US Presidential elections
Matt Edmundson:coming up on the other side of the pond. What's
Matt Edmundson:going to happen? Who knows? It's a fascinating
Matt Edmundson:one. Do you think? Are we seeing events like this
Matt Edmundson:actually affect confidence or is it just me?
Matt Edmundson:Because Ecommerce business owners, when sales get
Matt Edmundson:down we obviously want to understand why and
Matt Edmundson:sometimes we try and attribute it, you know, oh
Matt Edmundson:well, the wind was going northwest rather than
Matt Edmundson:southwest. You know we, yeah. Am I being crazy or
Matt Edmundson:is there something in this across the board?
Raul Galera:So it's, you know, it's obviously in hindsight we
Raul Galera:always try to look for answers to events that you
Raul Galera:know, may or may not be correlated but something
Raul Galera:that is. So I, that's, that's actually one of the
Raul Galera:questions that we asked in the, in the latest
Raul Galera:report was about US Elections. So do you think
Raul Galera:it's going to have a positive, negative or
Raul Galera:neutral impact on Ecommerce sales in Q4? And you
Raul Galera:know I was expecting to just, you know we ask
Raul Galera:agencies to rate it, you know, from, from 0 to
Raul Galera:10. So you know, between 0 and 4 is negative, 5
Raul Galera:is neutral, 6 to 10 is positive. I was expecting
Raul Galera:fives all across the board. Like people just
Raul Galera:like, you know, like, you know, I was expecting
Raul Galera:that kind of neutral answer. No, I was, it was
Raul Galera:actually mostly negative. So the majority of the
Raul Galera:agencies responded that they are expecting some
Raul Galera:sort of negative impact on Ecommerce sales. So
Raul Galera:you know it's interesting we're going to, we're
Raul Galera:going to get to publish another report right
Raul Galera:before the, the US elections. So because we're,
Raul Galera:we're planning, we're going to start planning the
Raul Galera:October issue now and we're going to publish it
Raul Galera:before November 5th. So it's, it's kind of
Raul Galera:interesting if like the trend continues or if
Raul Galera:it's kind of like a one time thing when you ask
Raul Galera:people for the first time. But, but yeah. So now
Raul Galera:answering your question, will they be right about
Raul Galera:it? I guess, you know, we'll find out. Yeah,
Raul Galera:we'll find out soon enough.
Matt Edmundson:Did they give you any indication as to why they
Matt Edmundson:were negative in their opinion?
Raul Galera:So you know it's, it's, I think it's one of the
Raul Galera:kind of keywords that I got the, you know, most
Raul Galera:like most. One of the most common keywords that
Raul Galera:we got from, from some of the responses and the
Raul Galera:quotes that we got were, was uncertainty in
Raul Galera:general. And so, and I'm tying that with other
Raul Galera:conversations that I've had throughout the year
Raul Galera:with other agencies. This is a theory that's,
Raul Galera:that's going around that I, you know, I, I think
Raul Galera:it makes sense because I've heard it from several
Raul Galera:people and is that whenever there's like a major
Raul Galera:event that takes people away from social media
Raul Galera:platforms in which in which they're exposed to
Raul Galera:ads. Yeah. Then Ecommerce sales go down. Meaning
Raul Galera:that, you know, one example that. A couple
Raul Galera:examples that I've kind of gathered throughout
Raul Galera:the year and I've had some agencies kind of
Raul Galera:confirm that that happened. So, you know, we all
Raul Galera:remember. I think it was like, I think it was
Raul Galera:like last year, right? The Titanic submarine type
Raul Galera:of thing.
Matt Edmundson:Oh, yeah, yeah. Apparently there was a trial
Matt Edmundson:about that recently, wasn't there?
Raul Galera:Yeah, yeah, exactly. So. But that was in the news
Raul Galera:for like, like three, four days. Like two. I
Raul Galera:don't remember. But apparently during those few
Raul Galera:days in which, you know, we were looking for the
Raul Galera:submarine, everybody was so focused on that or
Raul Galera:like that was driving so much of the attention
Raul Galera:that, you know, brands were spending less money
Raul Galera:on ads and so there were less conversions. At
Raul Galera:first, I found that kind of hard to believe, but
Raul Galera:I had the same feedback from multiple agencies
Raul Galera:and I, you know, and to be honest with you, that
Raul Galera:was one of the conversations that got me into,
Raul Galera:you know, starting a rapport like this because I
Raul Galera:was like, this is really interesting. And these
Raul Galera:are, this is stuff that, I mean, I only found out
Raul Galera:because I was, you know, kind of having a beer
Raul Galera:with one of these agency owner, otherwise I
Raul Galera:wouldn't have been able to, you know, kind of get
Raul Galera:that kind of data. And then, you know, got me
Raul Galera:thinking, like, okay, let's. There's got to be a
Raul Galera:way of verifying this and so, and so and tying
Raul Galera:it, tying that with US elections. So, you know,
Raul Galera:also during, during the World cup again, middle
Raul Galera:of the summer World cup, like, apparently sales
Raul Galera:in Europe were a little bit lower because people
Raul Galera:were paying more attention to the TV down on, you
Raul Galera:know, on social media, Instagram or Facebook or
Raul Galera:whatnot. And so it seems like it might be the
Raul Galera:same thing happening for. For the US Elections.
Raul Galera:Maybe we're not we. But like in the US they're
Raul Galera:spending more time kind of watching tv, like
Raul Galera:maybe debates, you know, not not only candidates
Raul Galera:debates, but like political debates on tv, you
Raul Galera:know, checking Twitter to see, you know, what
Raul Galera:candidates saying what. So that's also something
Raul Galera:that I'm getting is I might be driving that kind
Raul Galera:of. And there's a little bit of fear too. So I
Raul Galera:feel like you are being a little. Just, you know.
Raul Galera:Yeah. Kind of maybe afraid of spending money
Raul Galera:until we figure out what's going on. I don't
Raul Galera:know. But it's. It's definitely that kind of
Raul Galera:uncertainty. It's probably the main word that's
Raul Galera:been thrown right now.
Matt Edmundson:And it's a really interesting word, isn't it?
Matt Edmundson:Uncertainty. Because you're right, I think when
Matt Edmundson:we are uncertain as people, we tend to sort of
Matt Edmundson:retreat into ourselves a little bit, don't we?
Matt Edmundson:And so we spend less, we go out less, we do less
Matt Edmundson:maybe of certain things like eat out or whatever.
Matt Edmundson:Yep. And, and whilst it's interesting, you talk
Matt Edmundson:about how the Titanic submarine resulted in lower
Matt Edmundson:sales for some people, because it's the most
Matt Edmundson:extraordinary sort of event, isn't it? And you
Matt Edmundson:can you kind of go, well, it, maybe you've only
Matt Edmundson:had like a very small percentage, but it actually
Matt Edmundson:had some kind of impact which fascinate,
Matt Edmundson:fascinates me. So you've got, you've got
Matt Edmundson:uncertainty, but plus you've also got
Matt Edmundson:distraction, haven't you? So you've got the
Matt Edmundson:distract. And I mean, let's face it, you know,
Matt Edmundson:the, the drama without getting political enough
Matt Edmundson:and, you know, offending my US cousins, the drama
Matt Edmundson:around the US election is, is unbelievably
Matt Edmundson:addictive and, and serves as a huge distraction,
Matt Edmundson:I think, in, in many things, you know, and I, I
Matt Edmundson:just, I find the whole thing absolutely
Matt Edmundson:fascinating in so many ways. But you're right, my
Matt Edmundson:attention is there, plus my level of uncertainty.
Matt Edmundson:Certainly in the uk, with what's going to happen
Matt Edmundson:in the October budget, you're kind of like, well,
Matt Edmundson:geez, these world events are actually having an
Matt Edmundson:impact on me. So I can see how they would be
Matt Edmundson:impacting a whole bunch of people, which has a,
Matt Edmundson:has an effect. I don't know if you've got any
Matt Edmundson:insights on this then Roll. I mean, how would
Matt Edmundson:you, how would you counsel somebody who is
Matt Edmundson:running an Ecommerce business right now? How do
Matt Edmundson:you market well in times of uncertainty and
Matt Edmundson:distraction like this? Because there's obviously
Matt Edmundson:things that we can do when things are going okay,
Matt Edmundson:but actually understanding the sign of the times
Matt Edmundson:for want of a better expression and doing
Matt Edmundson:something well in that time, well, that's a
Matt Edmundson:different skill set in many ways, isn't it? And
Matt Edmundson:so I'm kind of curious, is there any insight on
Matt Edmundson:how to manage this?
Raul Galera:I mean, I would say, and probably saying this
Raul Galera:because it's the type of marketing that we do at
Raul Galera:Referral Candy, but at the end of the day, brands
Raul Galera:that work really well are those that have a
Raul Galera:community around them. And it, you know, it
Raul Galera:doesn't necessarily have to be a physical
Raul Galera:community. And by physical, I don't mean like in
Raul Galera:person and I also mean like, you know, like a,
Raul Galera:like a Reddit, you know, like a subreddit or like
Raul Galera:a Facebook group or anything like that. It's
Raul Galera:literally a community of like, okay, you've been
Raul Galera:able to identify a group of customers that
Raul Galera:probably even before they bought from your brand,
Raul Galera:they identify with you. And so you know, you can
Raul Galera:use, you can use ads to get in front of those
Raul Galera:people. I mean you can get really good at ads
Raul Galera:targeting and figure out ways that you can again,
Raul Galera:like, okay, these people fit this criteria
Raul Galera:because they have these catch different, you
Raul Galera:know, categories and they check all these boxes.
Raul Galera:I want to get in front of them. Yeah, but at the
Raul Galera:same time it's kind of creating that word of
Raul Galera:mouth. And so you know, when you have a product
Raul Galera:that it's not necessarily generic because, and I
Raul Galera:don't mean like the product itself but like the
Raul Galera:way that you're selling it to people and the way
Raul Galera:that you're kind of like framing because you
Raul Galera:know, you can sell T shirts but you can, you can
Raul Galera:sell a million different types of T shirts to a
Raul Galera:million different type of people and you know,
Raul Galera:make them see it and realize, okay, that's,
Raul Galera:that's mine. That's, you know, that's exactly me.
Raul Galera:Like I, you know, I definitely need this. Right.
Raul Galera:And so again, when you have, it all comes down to
Raul Galera:product market fit. Right? So when you have
Raul Galera:product market fit to the point that you, you're
Raul Galera:able to just show your customers that you have
Raul Galera:the product that they have been looking, looking
Raul Galera:for even before they knew that they were looking
Raul Galera:for it, you're gonna be able to generate word of
Raul Galera:mouth around it. And yeah, and so you know, your
Raul Galera:customers are going to talk to other people that
Raul Galera:are going to start, they're going to start
Raul Galera:posting on, posting on social media, they're
Raul Galera:going to start living reviews, they're going to
Raul Galera:start generating all these, you know, user
Raul Galera:generated content that you can then leverage on
Raul Galera:other, on other platforms. So you know, at the
Raul Galera:end of the day, obviously ads are important and
Raul Galera:you know, obviously a lot of the messaging that
Raul Galera:we put out on referral candy is, you know, you
Raul Galera:don't, don't, don't, don't waste your time on,
Raul Galera:waste your money on ads. But you need ads. But
Raul Galera:it's all about like get the most out of it. So
Raul Galera:once don't just spend money on acquiring a
Raul Galera:customer and then kind of forget about it. That
Raul Galera:customer can become your salesperson.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah.
Raul Galera:Make sure that after they buy they're so happy
Raul Galera:and they're so satisfied with your product that
Raul Galera:they're ready to tell their friends about it. And
Raul Galera:even on top of that you're, you're, you know,
Raul Galera:coming up with a Some sort of like referral
Raul Galera:structure that makes it even bigger of a no
Raul Galera:brainer for them to refer. So yeah, that, and
Raul Galera:that's kind of like the long term type of
Raul Galera:marketing plan that you want to have.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah, that. Powerful stuff. Powerful stuff. I
Matt Edmundson:like this because I mean in times of uncertainty,
Matt Edmundson:in times of distraction, you've got to stand out
Matt Edmundson:and you've got to give people a compelling
Matt Edmundson:reason. Right. And I think you can't be beige,
Matt Edmundson:you can't be the same as everybody else. You have
Matt Edmundson:got to stand out. So having, I love this, having
Matt Edmundson:a community is a great idea. What that means for
Matt Edmundson:you and your business is obviously very
Matt Edmundson:interesting and very different to everybody else.
Matt Edmundson:But focusing in on the community and focusing on
Matt Edmundson:an expand, delivering an experience that you
Matt Edmundson:know, just delivers. Wow. As we like to say on
Matt Edmundson:the Ecommerce podcast, deliver. Well, I think are
Matt Edmundson:always very sound old school marketing tactics
Matt Edmundson:and principles. And I think you're right. I think
Matt Edmundson:great ideas, you know, in times of uncertainty
Matt Edmundson:and distraction. So what else has come out from
Matt Edmundson:this research then? I mean what else has
Matt Edmundson:surprised you?
Raul Galera:So and the latest report, one of the, one of the
Raul Galera:findings that I found more interesting is how
Raul Galera:brands. So you know, the report is about
Raul Galera:Ecommerce agencies, but at the end of the day
Raul Galera:their behavior depends on their customers, which
Raul Galera:are brands. And so you know, by asking agencies
Raul Galera:in extension, we're getting data points from
Raul Galera:hundreds of other merchants. Right. So the
Raul Galera:picture gets really interesting because you're
Raul Galera:again kind of like using agencies as a proxy, you
Raul Galera:can estimate how the rest of the Ecommerce world
Raul Galera:is doing, how brands are doing. And so one thing
Raul Galera:that I found really interesting in this last
Raul Galera:particular report is that so we always ask
Raul Galera:agencies what's if they've noticed any changes in
Raul Galera:terms of prices, price sensitivity. So when you
Raul Galera:talk to customers about, you know, renewing your
Raul Galera:contract or negotiating retainers, whether it's a
Raul Galera:new customer or an existing customer or
Raul Galera:negotiating new services or whatever it is, how
Raul Galera:sensitive are these customers to these price
Raul Galera:changes? And that the next question that we ask
Raul Galera:is do you see brands more likely to hire in house
Raul Galera:or to outsource to agencies? And so in the latest
Raul Galera:report we got a spike in price sensitivity. So it
Raul Galera:turns out that, you know, somewhere between
Raul Galera:August, September, brands got more, more
Raul Galera:sensitive to price. So more sensitive to price
Raul Galera:changes. You know, it makes sense. They, you
Raul Galera:know, everybody's looking after their costs right
Raul Galera:now because of, you know, inflation. Costs are
Raul Galera:going up and so you want to keep everything under
Raul Galera:control. You're probably your CFO is, you know,
Raul Galera:probably questioning every single line in the
Raul Galera:budget, like, do we really need this? Like what's
Raul Galera:discharged? They recognize this. So, you know,
Raul Galera:it's happening in all across the board. And so
Raul Galera:they, they did notice a spike in price
Raul Galera:sensitivity, which you would think, okay, well
Raul Galera:then, you know, that probably means that, that
Raul Galera:brands are going to hire more in house. Like
Raul Galera:they're, they're spending less money on agencies.
Raul Galera:You know, if they're, if they're getting, you
Raul Galera:know, turned off by some of the quotes that are
Raul Galera:getting, that probably means that they're going
Raul Galera:down a different route. But when we ask that
Raul Galera:question about whether brands are going in house
Raul Galera:or outsourcing, we, we got a vast majority of
Raul Galera:agencies that saying that brands are outsourcing,
Raul Galera:that they're more likely to outsource than to go
Raul Galera:in house. So it's, it's kind of like a paradox,
Raul Galera:right? Like, so, yeah, agencies are getting more
Raul Galera:exp. In the eyes of brands, but brands are still
Raul Galera:going after them. And I think, and the
Raul Galera:explanation that I, that I got, which again it's,
Raul Galera:it's just, it's my own explanation, I don't know
Raul Galera:if it's, if it's correct, is that at the end of
Raul Galera:the day, hiring an agency has a set of
Raul Galera:intangibles for, for brands that make it more
Raul Galera:attractive than hire an employee or hiring a team
Raul Galera:in house. When you're hiring an agency, you're
Raul Galera:not only getting access to their, you know, their
Raul Galera:skills and their team and you know, and whatnot,
Raul Galera:you're getting access to their creative data and
Raul Galera:collective knowledge of all the brands they work
Raul Galera:with. So you, as a CMO of an Ecommerce brand, you
Raul Galera:have access to one data point, maybe a couple if
Raul Galera:you have, you know, people in the industry that
Raul Galera:you talk to. But when you're working with an
Raul Galera:agency and you know, you're having a, a weird
Raul Galera:month or weird week, you can say, hey, is this
Raul Galera:normal? And they can say, oh yeah, all of the
Raul Galera:other brands in your vertical are, you know, kind
Raul Galera:of seeing the same thing. Or like, hey, we're
Raul Galera:actually seeing some trends right now. Like, you
Raul Galera:know, you can have access to that collective.
Raul Galera:Yeah, intelligence, I would say that I feel like,
Raul Galera:makes it really powerful than hiring in house.
Raul Galera:Obviously, you know, hiring in house and versus
Raul Galera:an agency has. It also depends on, you know,
Raul Galera:what's the pricing model that the agency is going
Raul Galera:after. Are they taking a commission on revenue?
Raul Galera:Are they charging a flat fee? But, but again, I
Raul Galera:thought it was interesting that there's like this
Raul Galera:paradox of brands are going with agencies Even if
Raul Galera:they find them more expensive, at the end of the
Raul Galera:day, they're still settling for, for outsourcing
Raul Galera:versus going in house.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah, it's fascinating, isn't it? And I get on
Matt Edmundson:one hand how that would be a paradox, you know,
Matt Edmundson:and. But on the other hand, I guess one of the
Matt Edmundson:things I am noticing is obviously ecom companies,
Matt Edmundson:they're cutting costs quite a bit. Everyone's
Matt Edmundson:becoming very cost conscious because it's. There
Matt Edmundson:has been so many price hikes. It's actually quite
Matt Edmundson:complicated now, I think, to rise. I'm not saying
Matt Edmundson:you shouldn't increase prices, but I think people
Matt Edmundson:have increased prices but still need to manage
Matt Edmundson:costs. And so they're looking in, you know,
Matt Edmundson:internally at how to do that. So I can see them
Matt Edmundson:going, actually, we spend four grand a month with
Matt Edmundson:that agency. Can we find an agency where we spend
Matt Edmundson:three grand a month and get the same output?
Matt Edmundson:Right. So I can see why people would ask that
Matt Edmundson:question. But I guess I also see how internally I
Matt Edmundson:might say, well, I need to hire two new people.
Matt Edmundson:Right. So real life example, I suppose at our
Matt Edmundson:company, I'm looking to hire two people at the
Matt Edmundson:moment. It's a very real question now to ask
Matt Edmundson:myself, well, do I actually want to hire somebody
Matt Edmundson:or can I outsource this work? Right, right. And
Matt Edmundson:so I'm, I'm looking at my own cost base and
Matt Edmundson:going, right, what do I actually do in house and
Matt Edmundson:what can I outsource? And so I can see how this
Matt Edmundson:creates this sort of paradox. I'm looking maybe
Matt Edmundson:to outsource more because I want to keep my
Matt Edmundson:internal costs down, but in outsourcing more, I'm
Matt Edmundson:going, oh, I'm not, I'm not happy with four grand
Matt Edmundson:a month, dude, I need it to be three, you know,
Matt Edmundson:that kind of thing. And I, I've seen that a lot,
Matt Edmundson:actually. I've seen that a lot. I've seen
Matt Edmundson:agencies, especially freelancers, so agencies
Matt Edmundson:where it's just maybe one or two people, you
Matt Edmundson:know, just sort of doing the ad spend and things
Matt Edmundson:like that. I, I've seen them getting squeezed by
Matt Edmundson:companies and because they are one man bands for
Matt Edmundson:better, you know, their soul. And it's just them
Matt Edmundson:really, that's why they're freelancers. It's
Matt Edmundson:really hard to. Unless you're full on with work.
Matt Edmundson:It's really hard to go, okay, I'll just drop my
Matt Edmundson:prices for you, rather than just turning around
Matt Edmundson:to them and saying, oh, well, if you don't want
Matt Edmundson:to pay, go somewhere else. It's not actually an
Matt Edmundson:easy thing. To say, is it. If you're a
Matt Edmundson:freelancer, it's easier, I suppose, if you're an
Matt Edmundson:agency, but even then everyone's a little bit
Matt Edmundson:twitchy at the moment. So again, coming back to
Matt Edmundson:your uncertainty observation, I think that's
Matt Edmundson:interesting. I do think that's interesting. I'm
Matt Edmundson:kind of. Go ahead.
Raul Galera:I was gonna say, I think it also has to do maybe
Raul Galera:with the learning curve. Curve. Because
Raul Galera:especially at this time of the month. Sorry, at
Raul Galera:this time of the year, if you are in that
Raul Galera:position and you're an ecommerce brand, you know
Raul Galera:that hiring an employee, you're probably not
Raul Galera:gonna see any results anytime soon. Cause they
Raul Galera:need time to ramp up. Agencies need it too. But
Raul Galera:agencies usually come with SOPs and they're ready
Raul Galera:to deploy almost because it's for them. It's sort
Raul Galera:of like, this is literally my everyday. This is
Raul Galera:literally what I do every single day. Like
Raul Galera:you're, you know, you as a brand, you're probably
Raul Galera:not that different from the 15 other brands that
Raul Galera:I work with. So maybe that, that speed factor
Raul Galera:might be an aspect that brands value over hiring
Raul Galera:in house.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah, it's an interesting one. I was going to
Matt Edmundson:say, I'm kind of, I'm curious also whether
Matt Edmundson:actually the traditional agency model that we've
Matt Edmundson:experienced the last few years, whether that
Matt Edmundson:actually needs to change as well. I appreciate
Matt Edmundson:this is a much deeper conversation.
Raul Galera:Yep.
Matt Edmundson:Than what we're thinking, but I, I've not. We
Matt Edmundson:have an agency, right. A media agency. And we
Matt Edmundson:went down the traditional route of this is our
Matt Edmundson:service, this is our retainer. You pay the
Matt Edmundson:retainer, we do the service. The problem I think
Matt Edmundson:people have got is, and this is my experience in
Matt Edmundson:using agency, is that when you go to an agency,
Matt Edmundson:you get a great service at the start. But if that
Matt Edmundson:agency is good, they're going to grow, they're
Matt Edmundson:going to get more clients, and the people that
Matt Edmundson:are good for you are now going to be good for
Matt Edmundson:three people, four people. And so the quality of
Matt Edmundson:work for you gets less and less, the feedback
Matt Edmundson:gets less and less, you get annoyed and then you
Matt Edmundson:end up going to another agency and the whole
Matt Edmundson:process repeats itself. One of the things that
Matt Edmundson:we've done, and I can't give you any hard data
Matt Edmundson:yet, Raul, I'm not going to lie because I just
Matt Edmundson:don't know. I'm intrigued to see the results with
Matt Edmundson:one of our agencies is we have gone to the market
Matt Edmundson:and we've said, right, listen, this is the work
Matt Edmundson:that we're going to do. This is the fee for that
Matt Edmundson:but at the end of a predefined period, which in
Matt Edmundson:this particular industry is going to be, I think
Matt Edmundson:about five months, at the end of those five
Matt Edmundson:months, your staff will be trained on our
Matt Edmundson:processes and we'll be able to do a chunk of the
Matt Edmundson:work. So we will help you get up and running and
Matt Edmundson:we will train your staff. Now if you don't have
Matt Edmundson:staff, we will carry on doing the work for you
Matt Edmundson:under the traditional retainer model. But if you
Matt Edmundson:do, we will train them and we will move from
Matt Edmundson:doing the everyday work into a much more sort of
Matt Edmundson:consultative coaching role to make sure the staff
Matt Edmundson:stay on top of things and, and go forward. The
Matt Edmundson:initial response to that actually has been really
Matt Edmundson:positive. But like I say, it's all anecdotal at
Matt Edmundson:the moment. And so part of me wonders in the
Matt Edmundson:midst of all of this, whether the agencies which
Matt Edmundson:change their models to whatever it is, maybe
Matt Edmundson:could find a way to win.
Raul Galera:Yeah, I've, I actually had a similar discussion
Raul Galera:last week with Jordan West.
Matt Edmundson:I know Jordan, he's a legend. He has been on the
Matt Edmundson:show.
Raul Galera:Yes. Oh yeah, I saw, I saw actually so, and you
Raul Galera:know, he, he mentioned actually so I was on, in
Raul Galera:his podcast and I was asking him so many
Raul Galera:questions that at some point I felt like I was
Raul Galera:the, the host. But, but one of the, one of the,
Raul Galera:so we were talking about this particular question
Raul Galera:about the retainers and the in house versus
Raul Galera:outsourcing. He mentioned that, that agencies,
Raul Galera:when they do like a, like a kind of performance
Raul Galera:based or like, you know, revenue based type of,
Raul Galera:you know, get a commission on the revenue Lyft or
Raul Galera:something like that, that at some point if you do
Raul Galera:too well, it will get you fire as an agency.
Matt Edmundson:Yes.
Raul Galera:Because you'll have the CFO saying, wait a
Raul Galera:minute, 30k. Like, oh sure, you know, we made,
Raul Galera:you know, I don't know if these were the numbers
Raul Galera:that he mentioned. I'm sure it was just like, you
Raul Galera:know, kind of just relatively figures. But you
Raul Galera:know, if you make a brand generate a million
Raul Galera:dollars and you get 30k out of it, 3%, sure.
Raul Galera:Great. You know, you've, you've made the brand
Raul Galera:get a million dollars in revenue, but they're
Raul Galera:going to see a 30k bill and the CFO in question
Raul Galera:is going to say, wait a minute, do we really need
Raul Galera:to spend 30k on this? Because obviously. And
Raul Galera:again, it's the same thing that we were talking
Raul Galera:about earlier. In hindsight it looks pretty easy.
Raul Galera:It's like, oh, okay, well this agency got it for
Raul Galera:30. There's gotta be an agency that maybe gets a
Raul Galera:little bit less, but we pay a lot less. Right.
Raul Galera:And so, and I feel like that's a raw mentality,
Raul Galera:but at the end of the day in a company, you have
Raul Galera:a ton of different stakeholders. The CFO has one
Raul Galera:job and you know, and it's, it's also, you know,
Raul Galera:I think it's also the CMO or the CEO job of
Raul Galera:saying, no, no, no, you know, we, we need us,
Raul Galera:we're not. We wouldn't be able to get where we
Raul Galera:are. But again, in hindsight, it always makes it
Raul Galera:a little bit more difficult to see. But yeah,
Raul Galera:that's so, you know, answering your question, I
Raul Galera:don't know, I don't know what's the ideal pricing
Raul Galera:model when again even like what it could be
Raul Galera:considered like the most fair type of approach,
Raul Galera:you know, can also. And you know, we've seen our
Raul Galera:referral candy too. I mean, referral candy, we
Raul Galera:take a commission on refer purchases. So on the
Raul Galera:revenue that the referral program generates.
Raul Galera:Yeah. At some point we get questions. At some
Raul Galera:point it's, you know, when we are able to help a
Raul Galera:brand get to a certain size in the referral
Raul Galera:program, some of them have question of like,
Raul Galera:well, whether, you know, I'm paying a lot. Like,
Raul Galera:you can prove what you've generated, but the bill
Raul Galera:is there, the invoice is there. And so I can see
Raul Galera:how it can generate that kind of situation.
Raul Galera:Whether it's a brand talking to an agency or a
Raul Galera:brand talking to an app.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah, absolutely. It's really fascinating, isn't
Matt Edmundson:it? I mean, the whole thing just. And if you're
Matt Edmundson:listening to this and you're an Ecommerce owner,
Matt Edmundson:then, and you know, having sat on both sides of
Matt Edmundson:the fence, having been and still running agency
Matt Edmundson:and having been and still running my own
Matt Edmundson:Ecommerce businesses, I get to see it from both
Matt Edmundson:sides. I really do. And I think that I would
Matt Edmundson:just. Probably the best advice I could give you
Matt Edmundson:is just communicate well and ask lots of
Matt Edmundson:questions. Don't let the anger and resentment
Matt Edmundson:build up, have the conversations early. And I
Matt Edmundson:think agencies are learning more now to adapt to
Matt Edmundson:that and I think it's an important thing to do.
Matt Edmundson:And of course, I mean, you mentioned Jordan West.
Matt Edmundson:He was on the show. We were talking about TikTok
Matt Edmundson:shops and he was on the show, I think, back in
Matt Edmundson:May, if you want to check out that episode, Dear
Matt Edmundson:Listener, it was a great episode. He's again such
Matt Edmundson:a legend. He and I are on WhatsApp all the time,
Matt Edmundson:just chatting away. He's such A good guy. So I'm
Matt Edmundson:curious to hear that conversation you had with
Matt Edmundson:him. If I'm honest with you, Raul, I'm going to
Matt Edmundson:listen to that one. Speaking of questions. Right.
Matt Edmundson:One of the things I like to do in the show, which
Matt Edmundson:I say like to do is a more recent thing that
Matt Edmundson:we've been doing is ask a guest for a question.
Matt Edmundson:For me, this is where I ask you for a guest. I'm
Matt Edmundson:not going to answer it now. I'm going to answer
Matt Edmundson:it on my social media platforms. So this is my
Matt Edmundson:little trick, my little come and join me on
Matt Edmundson:social media thing for you, dear listener. Raul,
Matt Edmundson:what's the question?
Raul Galera:Well, we kind of talked about it earlier, but I
Raul Galera:want to get your full answer on this. How do you
Raul Galera:see the US elections affecting Q4 sales?
Matt Edmundson:Fantastic. If you want to know how I see the US
Matt Edmundson:election affecting Q4 sales, then come join me on
Matt Edmundson:social media. You can find me at edmondson, both
Matt Edmundson:on LinkedIn and Instagram and I'll be posting the
Matt Edmundson:answer to that and the other questions I've been
Matt Edmundson:asked soon. So, yeah, do come, follow me. Well,
Matt Edmundson:anything else in closing? I mean you've, you put
Matt Edmundson:this together every month. Is there anything else
Matt Edmundson:in the data which you found, which you've kind of
Matt Edmundson:gone, that's a little bit surprising?
Raul Galera:I don't know if it's surprising, but it's just
Raul Galera:something I like and that. So the last question
Raul Galera:that I ask, the last two questions that I ask
Raul Galera:agency owners are, you know, how you see your
Raul Galera:agency's revenue looking like in the next six
Raul Galera:months. And then also how do you see
Raul Galera:opportunities in the Ecommerce world looking like
Raul Galera:in the next six months? So it's more like, you
Raul Galera:know, just let's predict the future, right? Like,
Raul Galera:how do you see it working? And you know, even
Raul Galera:when we were having like months with like, like
Raul Galera:negative responses on marketing budgets, on price
Raul Galera:sensitivity, on you know, on different, like
Raul Galera:different aspects that we ask agency owners,
Raul Galera:those answers were always positive. The answer is
Raul Galera:kind of, what's the outlook? You know, it does
Raul Galera:not surprise me. And I've talked to a few people
Raul Galera:about it and they say, oh yeah, like, you know, I
Raul Galera:mean, and you know, the majority of our owners
Raul Galera:are entrepreneurs. They have to be positive.
Matt Edmundson:I mean, it's got to be optimistic.
Raul Galera:Exactly, exactly. So that's something I
Raul Galera:particularly love. And so again we, you know,
Raul Galera:this, this month was no difference. I asked, you
Raul Galera:know, how do you see the US Elections playing
Raul Galera:out? How you see, again, we talked about the
Raul Galera:marketing, but marketing budgets were up, but
Raul Galera:because of Black Fridays every Monday
Raul Galera:preparation. But again we talked about price
Raul Galera:sensitivity and all that and. Yeah, but how do
Raul Galera:you see everything looking like in six months? Oh
Raul Galera:no, it's amazing. So I mean I love it. I mean
Raul Galera:it's. And to be honest with you I'll be worried
Raul Galera:the day that I see negative outlook in that.
Matt Edmundson:That's true. Yeah. Because then you know you've
Matt Edmundson:got, if the entrepreneurs are downbeat you've got
Matt Edmundson:a real problem, haven't you? Yeah. I think that
Matt Edmundson:there is a blind optimism, isn't there with
Matt Edmundson:entrepreneurs And I actually quite like that
Matt Edmundson:because you need people who go no we, this is
Matt Edmundson:going to turn around, we can, we can do something
Matt Edmundson:here, there's opportunity for us, let's go take
Matt Edmundson:the hill. When everything around them is
Matt Edmundson:collapsing, you know and there's something quite
Matt Edmundson:magical if not self denial about that. It's one
Matt Edmundson:of those and I think you need people around you
Matt Edmundson:like that. And agency owners especially and I
Matt Edmundson:think Ecommerce entrepreneurs cut from the same
Matt Edmundson:cloth when you talk to an agency, if I go and
Matt Edmundson:talk to an adwords agency, give them my account
Matt Edmundson:details, they're going to look at that and go
Matt Edmundson:man, we can totally kill this for you. Right?
Matt Edmundson:They're going to say, they're going to say that
Matt Edmundson:because that's what they're going to say because
Matt Edmundson:that's what they actually believe and think if
Matt Edmundson:they didn't, oh mate, we can't beat that. Or may.
Matt Edmundson:It's just downhill from, for you from here, isn't
Matt Edmundson:it? It's that kind of actually you need that,
Matt Edmundson:that sense of positivity. The danger of course is
Matt Edmundson:you oversell and under deliver and you get caught
Matt Edmundson:up in that excitement, don't you? And so I think
Matt Edmundson:as Ecommerce entrepreneurs we, I listen to agency
Matt Edmundson:owners and I'm like, I just need to filter what
Matt Edmundson:they're saying because they're passionate,
Matt Edmundson:they're excited and then there's a reality of
Matt Edmundson:life.
Raul Galera:Yeah, yeah. I mean you're, you know, you're,
Raul Galera:you're selling and I do a lot of sales calls,
Raul Galera:referral candies. So like if you're, if you're an
Raul Galera:Ecommerce store and you request a demo, there's a
Raul Galera:chance that I'll be the one that's on the other
Raul Galera:side of the screen and you know, you, and you
Raul Galera:gotta, I mean you gotta believe in what you're
Raul Galera:selling.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah.
Raul Galera:You gotta believe in what you're, what you're
Raul Galera:capable of doing, you know, whether it's an
Raul Galera:agency or an app. So I totally get that. And you
Raul Galera:gotta have that optimism.
Matt Edmundson:Yeah, yeah, you do now. I love it, Love it. Well,
Matt Edmundson:listen, man, if people want to reach out to you,
Matt Edmundson:I mean, you've mentioned it at the start of the
Matt Edmundson:show, but let's talk about it again now. If
Matt Edmundson:people want to reach out to you, if they want to
Matt Edmundson:connect with you, what's the best way to do?
Raul Galera:If they want to email me, it's
Raul Galera:raul"referralcandy.com and if they want to check
Raul Galera:out the report, that's referralcandy.com/eaci,
Raul Galera:which stands for Ecommerce Agency Conference
Raul Galera:Index.
Matt Edmundson:Yep. And do check it out. I mean, I've read
Matt Edmundson:through the September report is very, very
Matt Edmundson:insightful.
Raul Galera:Thank you.
Matt Edmundson:And yeah, really, really well put together
Matt Edmundson:documents. So do sign up for that. Do go and get
Matt Edmundson:that. It is free to access, so go check that out.
Matt Edmundson:And of course, do connect with Raul if you've got
Matt Edmundson:any questions, even if it's just to say hello,
Matt Edmundson:I'm sure Raul would love to hear from you. And of
Matt Edmundson:course we will link to everything that Raul has
Matt Edmundson:given us in the show notes as well, which you can
Matt Edmundson:get with the transcript and all that sort of good
Matt Edmundson:stuff. You can get it on the website
Matt Edmundson:ecommercepodcast.net and of course, like I say,
Matt Edmundson:you can get it in the show notes to scroll down
Matt Edmundson:on your app. And if you sign up to the
Matt Edmundson:newsletter, that'll be coming to you anyway, just
Matt Edmundson:automagically. Well, listen, man, it's good to
Matt Edmundson:see you again and good to chat again. We should
Matt Edmundson:do this more often.
Raul Galera:Definitely not every three years. Probably in a
Raul Galera:few months.
Matt Edmundson:Maybe let's get you on sooner next time.
Raul Galera:Sounds good.
Matt Edmundson:But genuinely, thanks for coming on, man. Really
Matt Edmundson:appreciate it. Thanks for sharing the insights
Matt Edmundson:and love what you guys are doing and thanks for
Matt Edmundson:putting it out there. Thanks for making it free
Matt Edmundson:for people like me to get some insights. Really
Matt Edmundson:appreciate it.
Raul Galera:Yeah, thank you. And thanks for having me again.
Matt Edmundson:No worries. What a great conversation. Huge
Matt Edmundson:thanks again to Raul for joining me today. Now be
Matt Edmundson:sure to follow the Ecommerce podcast wherever you
Matt Edmundson:get your podcasts from because we've got some
Matt Edmundson:more great conversations lined up and I of course
Matt Edmundson:don't want you to miss any of them. Why would I?
Matt Edmundson:I wouldn't. And in case no one has told you yet
Matt Edmundson:today, let me be the first. You are awesome. Yes.
Matt Edmundson:You are created awesome. It's just a burden you
Matt Edmundson:have to bear. Raul's got to bear it. I've got to
Matt Edmundson:bear it. You've got to bear it as well.
Raul Galera:Now.
Matt Edmundson:The Ecommerce Podcast is produced by podjunction.
Matt Edmundson:You can find our entire archive of episodes on
Matt Edmundson:your favorite podcast app. The team that makes
Matt Edmundson:this show possible is Sadaf Baynon and Tanya
Matt Edmundson:Hutsuliak. Our theme music was written by Josh
Matt Edmundson:Edmundson, and as I mentioned, if you'd like to
Matt Edmundson:read the transcript or show notes, simply head
Matt Edmundson:over to the website ecommercepodcast.net where
Matt Edmundson:you can sign up for the weekly newsletter and all
Matt Edmundson:of the good stuff gets delivered straight to your
Matt Edmundson:inbox. Totally for free. But that's it from me.
Matt Edmundson:That's it from Raul. Thank you so much for
Matt Edmundson:joining us. Have a fantastic week wherever you
Matt Edmundson:are in the world. I will see you next time. Bye
Matt Edmundson:for now.
Raul Galera:SA.