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Ecommerce In Uncertain Times with Raul Galera
Episode 20619th December 2024 • eCommerce Podcast • Matt Edmundson
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In this episode of The Ecommerce Podcast, host Matt Edmundson welcomes back Raul Galera from Referral Candy to discuss the latest trends in Ecommerce. Raul shares insights from their Ecommerce Agency Confidence Index (EACI), a monthly report gathering data from around 100 agencies worldwide. They explore how global events like the US elections might impact Q4 sales, the paradox of price sensitivity versus outsourcing in Ecommerce, and the enduring optimism of entrepreneurs in the face of uncertainty.

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Timestamps:

0:00 - Introduction and welcome

2:27 - Catching up with Raul Galera

5:24 - Discussing the Ecommerce Agency Confidence Index

8:53 - Black Friday and Cyber Monday expectations

13:09 - Impact of global events on ecommerce confidence

19:48 - Marketing strategies during uncertain times

23:33 - Price sensitivity and outsourcing trends

31:25 - The future of agency models

37:52 - Raul's question for Matt

38:32 - Closing thoughts on agency optimism

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Key Takeaways:

1. Focus on building a community around your brand. Raul emphasised that brands that work really well are those with a strong community. This doesn't necessarily mean a physical community, but rather a group of customers who identify with your brand even before purchasing. This community can generate word-of-mouth marketing and user-generated content, which can be leveraged across platforms.

2. Consider the value of outsourcing to agencies. Despite increased price sensitivity, brands are still choosing to outsource to agencies rather than hiring in-house. Agencies offer intangible benefits such as access to collective knowledge and data from multiple brands, which can be invaluable for navigating uncertain times.

3. Stay optimistic but realistic. Raul noted that even in challenging times, agency owners and entrepreneurs maintain a positive outlook for the future. This optimism is crucial for success, but it's also important to balance it with realism to avoid overselling and under-delivering.

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If this episode of the eCommerce Podcast piqued your interest make sure to check out everything that gets done over here on the eCommerce Podcast, a space dedicated to eCommerce Wow!

Transcripts

Matt Edmundson:

Well, hello and welcome to the Ecommerce Podcast

Matt Edmundson:

with me, your host, Matt Edmundson. Now, this is

Matt Edmundson:

a show all about helping you deliver Ecommerce.

Matt Edmundson:

Wow. And to help us do just that, we've got a

Matt Edmundson:

special guest, someone who has been on the show

Matt Edmundson:

before, Raul Galleria from Referral Candy. Now,

Matt Edmundson:

Raul was on the podcast in 2021. We talked about

Matt Edmundson:

referral marketing and if you've listened to that

Matt Edmundson:

episode, you'll remember how good it was. So I'm

Matt Edmundson:

really, really looking forward to this

Matt Edmundson:

conversation and getting going again. Raul

Matt Edmundson:

reached out to me a few weeks ago and said, matt,

Matt Edmundson:

I've got some really interesting stuff. Can we

Matt Edmundson:

chat about it? And I'm like, of course we can. Of

Matt Edmundson:

course we can. And before we get into it, let me

Matt Edmundson:

just say very warm welcome to you. Especially if

Matt Edmundson:

this is your first time with us on the Ecommerce

Matt Edmundson:

podcast, It' great to meet you. Do reach out to

Matt Edmundson:

me on social media, Edmundson. You'll find me on

Matt Edmundson:

LinkedIn, on Instagram. It'd be great to connect.

Matt Edmundson:

Let me know what you're doing, Let me know about

Matt Edmundson:

your business. I was just talking to a chap

Matt Edmundson:

called Dylan earlier on today. Dylan, if you're

Matt Edmundson:

listening, hope you're doing well. And we were

Matt Edmundson:

chatting about his ecom business and he said to

Matt Edmundson:

me he found the podcast in August, right. And

Matt Edmundson:

bearing in mind the time of recording, this is

Matt Edmundson:

October and he's already caught up. Right. And

Matt Edmundson:

we've been on air five years. That's some going,

Matt Edmundson:

not going to lie, some going. And I just have to

Matt Edmundson:

apologize for the sheer amount of my voice in

Matt Edmundson:

that time. But anyway, do reach out. Be great to

Matt Edmundson:

hear from you, great to connect with you and of

Matt Edmundson:

course, if you are a regular to the show, a warm

Matt Edmundson:

welcome back. Now, let's talk about Raul. He is

Matt Edmundson:

the chief advocate at Referral Candy, which is

Matt Edmundson:

the go to app for E commerce brands looking to

Matt Edmundson:

grow through customer referral programs. He has

Matt Edmundson:

got over 10 years of experience. He's been a

Matt Edmundson:

Referral candy a wee while, as we say, which has

Matt Edmundson:

empowered 30,000 plus brands to turn their

Matt Edmundson:

customers into a marketing force. Love that

Matt Edmundson:

phrase. For the past five years, Raul has led

Matt Edmundson:

partnership efforts connecting with marketing

Matt Edmundson:

agencies, media and tech companies to boost

Matt Edmundson:

growth without spending on ads. So, Raul, welcome

Matt Edmundson:

to the show, man. Great to have you back. How are

Matt Edmundson:

you doing today, good sir?

Raul Galera:

I'm doing pretty good. Thanks for having me again.

Matt Edmundson:

Oh, no worries. Always great to have you back on

Matt Edmundson:

the show, man. Always great to talk to you. We

Matt Edmundson:

were talking before we hit the record button I'm

Matt Edmundson:

sort of slightly envious of the weather that you

Matt Edmundson:

have where you are versus the weather that we

Matt Edmundson:

have where I am. You need air conditioning, I

Matt Edmundson:

need a heater. And it's amazing because we're

Matt Edmundson:

only a few hours apart how just a few degrees on

Matt Edmundson:

the old equator changes everything. But, you

Matt Edmundson:

know, there it is. So it's been what we were

Matt Edmundson:

saying. In fact we looked at the date. It was

Matt Edmundson:

sometime late, late September, wasn't it? When

Matt Edmundson:

you're on the show in 21, which is, it's almost

Matt Edmundson:

like you said, the three year anniversary.

Raul Galera:

Yep.

Matt Edmundson:

So what's been going on the last three years?

Raul Galera:

A lot. Yeah, we talked end of 2021, which we were

Raul Galera:

pretty much still at the peak of kind of like

Raul Galera:

Covid fuel Ecommerce growth. You know, 2021 was

Raul Galera:

still a year in which companies were getting, you

Raul Galera:

know, crazy amounts of funding. Everyone in the

Raul Galera:

space was, you know, growing with again just like

Raul Galera:

cheap borrowing lots of money available for, for

Raul Galera:

funding for DTC brands. So things were going

Raul Galera:

pretty well for everybody, you could say in the

Raul Galera:

Ecommerce world. 2022, we started to see a little

Raul Galera:

bit of a, kind of like, you know, darker clouds

Raul Galera:

in the horizon and that kind of materialized in

Raul Galera:

2023, I think, in which I was just talking to a

Raul Galera:

few people a couple weeks ago about it and you

Raul Galera:

know, I was saying how some brands in 2023 said

Raul Galera:

that, you know, it was almost a flat year. And

Raul Galera:

some of them said actually flat year being a flat

Raul Galera:

year was almost like the, the positive scenario,

Raul Galera:

you know, for, for a lot of brands, like if you

Raul Galera:

were just flat on 2023, you know, you could, you

Raul Galera:

know, pat yourself in the back and you know, it's

Raul Galera:

like, good job. Right? You kind of, you made it.

Raul Galera:

That being said, we had a lot of growth around

Raul Galera:

the Black Friday and Cyber Monday mark last year.

Raul Galera:

A lot of people say that it was, you know, fueled

Raul Galera:

by, you know, kind of like buy now, pay later

Raul Galera:

type of debt, that we don't know what's going to

Raul Galera:

happen in the future. But I mean the numbers are

Raul Galera:

there and you know, we're entering again since

Raul Galera:

October 7th. Today we're heading into Black

Raul Galera:

Friday Cyber Monday fairly soon. Brands are

Raul Galera:

getting ready for that and there's always this,

Raul Galera:

you know, there's like this big question of

Raul Galera:

what's going to happen. It's going to be bigger

Raul Galera:

than last year. How are the US Elections going to

Raul Galera:

play out in all this? So yeah, one of the

Raul Galera:

initiatives that we put together kind of because

Raul Galera:

of all these unknowns that A lot of agencies are

Raul Galera:

having. We put together this confidence report to

Raul Galera:

try to shine some light on at least what other

Raul Galera:

people are thinking and kind of like, what's the

Raul Galera:

mood around Ecommerce agencies on a monthly basis.

Matt Edmundson:

Great. So just. It says here that the confidence

Matt Edmundson:

report involves gathering data from around 100

Matt Edmundson:

agencies on a monthly basis. You guys are

Matt Edmundson:

creating therefore a confidence index, which I

Matt Edmundson:

just, I think is such a great phrase, and

Matt Edmundson:

tracking trends in Ecommerce, such as how brands

Matt Edmundson:

are spending on marketing, hiring agencies,

Matt Edmundson:

versus in house, and much more. So you've been

Matt Edmundson:

putting this confidence report together, which I

Matt Edmundson:

really like the idea of, by the way. Thank you.

Matt Edmundson:

The agencies that you're talking to, are they all

Matt Edmundson:

marketing agencies? Are they a variety of

Matt Edmundson:

agencies? What kind of agencies are we talking to

Matt Edmundson:

here?

Raul Galera:

One thing that they all have in common is that

Raul Galera:

they are Ecommerce focused. So I would say the

Raul Galera:

majority of them are marketing agencies because

Raul Galera:

there's a bunch of questions that are about

Raul Galera:

marketing budgets. And so obviously they're the

Raul Galera:

ones that I would say the vast majority of them

Raul Galera:

have touched kind of marketing with their

Raul Galera:

clients. Probably kind of like, I would say the

Raul Galera:

main difference between all these agencies is how

Raul Galera:

they attract customers. So I would say there's

Raul Galera:

like two big groups of agencies, one of them that

Raul Galera:

are just like pure, you know, marketing ads type

Raul Galera:

of companies that focus on that or SEO, you know,

Raul Galera:

kind of type of thing. But like they focus just

Raul Galera:

100% on marketing. And then the agencies that do

Raul Galera:

like website builds or migrations or redesigns

Raul Galera:

and then kind of keep that customer on retainer,

Raul Galera:

typically with some other types of services that

Raul Galera:

may include marketing or just maintenance or

Raul Galera:

whatnot. But yeah, the one thing that they all

Raul Galera:

have in common is that they're almost 100%

Raul Galera:

focused on Ecommerce.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah. Which is great. And are they worldwide or

Matt Edmundson:

are they just focused in one particular area?

Raul Galera:

Yeah, I don't have the numbers for me right now,

Raul Galera:

but I think it's like 50% US and Canada and then

Raul Galera:

like, I think like 30% Europe and then the rest

Raul Galera:

between Australia and Asia, Latin America. So I

Raul Galera:

mean, it's kind of leaning a little more heavily

Raul Galera:

on Europe and the US But I'm actually in the

Raul Galera:

process right now kind of getting more agencies

Raul Galera:

from Australia as well. So we can get kind of

Raul Galera:

that side of the world as well. But yeah, I'm

Raul Galera:

trying to keep it as open as possible.

Matt Edmundson:

Fantastic. And so your job then is you're growing

Matt Edmundson:

this, you're getting more agencies on board. Just

Matt Edmundson:

a quick pled. Then if you're listening to the

Matt Edmundson:

show and you're an Ecommerce agency, then do

Matt Edmundson:

reach out to Raul. How do they get hold of you?

Raul Galera:

Yeah, so I mean, they can find me on Twitter. I

Raul Galera:

think my ad is raulgalera D. Or just search for

Raul Galera:

roller referral candy. You'll find it. Otherwise,

Raul Galera:

on our website we have the report and we have

Raul Galera:

like a little call to action where you can, you

Raul Galera:

know, if you want to be a partner agency, you can

Raul Galera:

submit and says referralcounty.com EACI cool.

Matt Edmundson:

EACI.

Raul Galera:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

We will of course link today in the show notes as

Matt Edmundson:

well, which you can get along for free at the

Matt Edmundson:

website ecommercepodcast.net and of course, if

Matt Edmundson:

you're listening to this on your favorite podcast

Matt Edmundson:

app, they'll be on that as well. Just scroll down

Matt Edmundson:

and they'll be there and just click the links

Matt Edmundson:

through to Raul. But so let's jump into it then.

Matt Edmundson:

You know, you've got this confidence report.

Matt Edmundson:

You're talking to e commerce agencies all over

Matt Edmundson:

the world, all of whom Ecommerce commerce as

Matt Edmundson:

clients, and they can see what their clients are

Matt Edmundson:

doing, where they're spending and so on and so

Matt Edmundson:

forth. At the time of recording, it's October.

Matt Edmundson:

We've got Black Friday Cyber Monday coming up. Is

Matt Edmundson:

that a big deal right now for agencies?

Raul Galera:

Yeah. And so I would say that that is probably

Raul Galera:

what is driving most of the confidence in

Raul Galera:

Ecommerce right now. Okay. So when we started the

Raul Galera:

report last year, the first month that we did

Raul Galera:

the, the first report that we put out was in

Raul Galera:

January 2024. So we started doing research on. In

Raul Galera:

December. And you know, with that, we, you know,

Raul Galera:

we're pretty much asking agencies that were, you

Raul Galera:

know, kind of in the middle of the hangover after

Raul Galera:

the Black Friday Cyber Monday and holiday kind of

Raul Galera:

season sales from last year. So confidence, I

Raul Galera:

mean, actually that was the highest level of

Raul Galera:

confidence that we've registered since, since

Raul Galera:

January. It's been, you know, going downhill

Raul Galera:

pretty much up until like June. It's when it

Raul Galera:

started to pick up again. July, August, September

Raul Galera:

have been going up, but still in the second kind

Raul Galera:

of highest month in terms of confidence has been

Raul Galera:

this month. I mean, September, but still it's

Raul Galera:

nowhere close to what we register in January. So

Raul Galera:

I have the feeling that, you know, it's kind of.

Raul Galera:

It's getting. Well, I guess we'll see. You know,

Raul Galera:

obviously if we continue doing this next year,

Raul Galera:

we'll be able to compare notes, you know, one

Raul Galera:

year versus other. But it seem to me that it's,

Raul Galera:

it's fairly seasonal in sense of like you know,

Raul Galera:

kind of like summer months, obviously slower and

Raul Galera:

like everybody's kind of always looking forward

Raul Galera:

to that. You know, black friends have Monday type

Raul Galera:

of, type of event that kind of defines the year.

Raul Galera:

And so. And again, we were talking about it

Raul Galera:

earlier where in the last year, which was for a

Raul Galera:

lot of brands was flat at best. They were looking

Raul Galera:

forward to that Black Friday Monday event. To

Raul Galera:

just see. Yeah, to see, like, okay, let's just,

Raul Galera:

let's just close the year. Like, let's just see

Raul Galera:

if it was really a flat year. It was positive,

Raul Galera:

negative, like, you know, so. But, you know, we

Raul Galera:

can't really say anything about 2023 until we hit

Raul Galera:

mark. Right. And so it looks like it's pretty

Raul Galera:

much the same happening this year. So 2023 all

Raul Galera:

over again, really.

Matt Edmundson:

So people are finding it quite flat at the moment.

Raul Galera:

So I would say, I mean, it's, I mean, like 2023

Raul Galera:

all over again when it comes to that excitement

Raul Galera:

about Black Friday and summer Monday. Like, it's,

Raul Galera:

it's. I don't, I don't think it's been that flat

Raul Galera:

of a year, but there has been seasonality and

Raul Galera:

again, it's not necessarily like a. From what.

Raul Galera:

Again, from what I've seen on the, on the

Raul Galera:

responses that have gone from agencies, it hasn't

Raul Galera:

been that kind of sustained growth that you're

Raul Galera:

kind of looking forward to.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, that's interesting is if I was to think

Matt Edmundson:

about my own experience, I'd say 2024 was

Matt Edmundson:

definitely better than 2023. Yeah. Certainly in

Matt Edmundson:

our online businesses, in our agencies and, you

Matt Edmundson:

know, the people that we partner with and so on

Matt Edmundson:

and so forth, this year seems to have been. It's

Matt Edmundson:

not true for everybody, obviously, but on the

Matt Edmundson:

whole it sort of feels slightly better. You've

Matt Edmundson:

got a few key events coming up at the moment,

Matt Edmundson:

which I think is really interesting. In the uk,

Matt Edmundson:

we've got the October budget. So this is where

Matt Edmundson:

the government decides how they're going to try

Matt Edmundson:

and fill a big 20 billion pound tax missing hole.

Matt Edmundson:

So everyone's slightly concerned about that, but

Matt Edmundson:

at the same time, not. Obviously, we've got Black

Matt Edmundson:

Friday Cyber Monday, which people are building up

Matt Edmundson:

for. So I do wonder if retail sales have slowed

Matt Edmundson:

with the new government and everyone's going to

Matt Edmundson:

wait to see what happens and then obviously we've

Matt Edmundson:

got Black Friday Cyber Monday, you mentioned it

Matt Edmundson:

earlier. We've got the US Presidential elections

Matt Edmundson:

coming up on the other side of the pond. What's

Matt Edmundson:

going to happen? Who knows? It's a fascinating

Matt Edmundson:

one. Do you think? Are we seeing events like this

Matt Edmundson:

actually affect confidence or is it just me?

Matt Edmundson:

Because Ecommerce business owners, when sales get

Matt Edmundson:

down we obviously want to understand why and

Matt Edmundson:

sometimes we try and attribute it, you know, oh

Matt Edmundson:

well, the wind was going northwest rather than

Matt Edmundson:

southwest. You know we, yeah. Am I being crazy or

Matt Edmundson:

is there something in this across the board?

Raul Galera:

So it's, you know, it's obviously in hindsight we

Raul Galera:

always try to look for answers to events that you

Raul Galera:

know, may or may not be correlated but something

Raul Galera:

that is. So I, that's, that's actually one of the

Raul Galera:

questions that we asked in the, in the latest

Raul Galera:

report was about US Elections. So do you think

Raul Galera:

it's going to have a positive, negative or

Raul Galera:

neutral impact on Ecommerce sales in Q4? And you

Raul Galera:

know I was expecting to just, you know we ask

Raul Galera:

agencies to rate it, you know, from, from 0 to

Raul Galera:

10. So you know, between 0 and 4 is negative, 5

Raul Galera:

is neutral, 6 to 10 is positive. I was expecting

Raul Galera:

fives all across the board. Like people just

Raul Galera:

like, you know, like, you know, I was expecting

Raul Galera:

that kind of neutral answer. No, I was, it was

Raul Galera:

actually mostly negative. So the majority of the

Raul Galera:

agencies responded that they are expecting some

Raul Galera:

sort of negative impact on Ecommerce sales. So

Raul Galera:

you know it's interesting we're going to, we're

Raul Galera:

going to get to publish another report right

Raul Galera:

before the, the US elections. So because we're,

Raul Galera:

we're planning, we're going to start planning the

Raul Galera:

October issue now and we're going to publish it

Raul Galera:

before November 5th. So it's, it's kind of

Raul Galera:

interesting if like the trend continues or if

Raul Galera:

it's kind of like a one time thing when you ask

Raul Galera:

people for the first time. But, but yeah. So now

Raul Galera:

answering your question, will they be right about

Raul Galera:

it? I guess, you know, we'll find out. Yeah,

Raul Galera:

we'll find out soon enough.

Matt Edmundson:

Did they give you any indication as to why they

Matt Edmundson:

were negative in their opinion?

Raul Galera:

So you know it's, it's, I think it's one of the

Raul Galera:

kind of keywords that I got the, you know, most

Raul Galera:

like most. One of the most common keywords that

Raul Galera:

we got from, from some of the responses and the

Raul Galera:

quotes that we got were, was uncertainty in

Raul Galera:

general. And so, and I'm tying that with other

Raul Galera:

conversations that I've had throughout the year

Raul Galera:

with other agencies. This is a theory that's,

Raul Galera:

that's going around that I, you know, I, I think

Raul Galera:

it makes sense because I've heard it from several

Raul Galera:

people and is that whenever there's like a major

Raul Galera:

event that takes people away from social media

Raul Galera:

platforms in which in which they're exposed to

Raul Galera:

ads. Yeah. Then Ecommerce sales go down. Meaning

Raul Galera:

that, you know, one example that. A couple

Raul Galera:

examples that I've kind of gathered throughout

Raul Galera:

the year and I've had some agencies kind of

Raul Galera:

confirm that that happened. So, you know, we all

Raul Galera:

remember. I think it was like, I think it was

Raul Galera:

like last year, right? The Titanic submarine type

Raul Galera:

of thing.

Matt Edmundson:

Oh, yeah, yeah. Apparently there was a trial

Matt Edmundson:

about that recently, wasn't there?

Raul Galera:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So. But that was in the news

Raul Galera:

for like, like three, four days. Like two. I

Raul Galera:

don't remember. But apparently during those few

Raul Galera:

days in which, you know, we were looking for the

Raul Galera:

submarine, everybody was so focused on that or

Raul Galera:

like that was driving so much of the attention

Raul Galera:

that, you know, brands were spending less money

Raul Galera:

on ads and so there were less conversions. At

Raul Galera:

first, I found that kind of hard to believe, but

Raul Galera:

I had the same feedback from multiple agencies

Raul Galera:

and I, you know, and to be honest with you, that

Raul Galera:

was one of the conversations that got me into,

Raul Galera:

you know, starting a rapport like this because I

Raul Galera:

was like, this is really interesting. And these

Raul Galera:

are, this is stuff that, I mean, I only found out

Raul Galera:

because I was, you know, kind of having a beer

Raul Galera:

with one of these agency owner, otherwise I

Raul Galera:

wouldn't have been able to, you know, kind of get

Raul Galera:

that kind of data. And then, you know, got me

Raul Galera:

thinking, like, okay, let's. There's got to be a

Raul Galera:

way of verifying this and so, and so and tying

Raul Galera:

it, tying that with US elections. So, you know,

Raul Galera:

also during, during the World cup again, middle

Raul Galera:

of the summer World cup, like, apparently sales

Raul Galera:

in Europe were a little bit lower because people

Raul Galera:

were paying more attention to the TV down on, you

Raul Galera:

know, on social media, Instagram or Facebook or

Raul Galera:

whatnot. And so it seems like it might be the

Raul Galera:

same thing happening for. For the US Elections.

Raul Galera:

Maybe we're not we. But like in the US they're

Raul Galera:

spending more time kind of watching tv, like

Raul Galera:

maybe debates, you know, not not only candidates

Raul Galera:

debates, but like political debates on tv, you

Raul Galera:

know, checking Twitter to see, you know, what

Raul Galera:

candidates saying what. So that's also something

Raul Galera:

that I'm getting is I might be driving that kind

Raul Galera:

of. And there's a little bit of fear too. So I

Raul Galera:

feel like you are being a little. Just, you know.

Raul Galera:

Yeah. Kind of maybe afraid of spending money

Raul Galera:

until we figure out what's going on. I don't

Raul Galera:

know. But it's. It's definitely that kind of

Raul Galera:

uncertainty. It's probably the main word that's

Raul Galera:

been thrown right now.

Matt Edmundson:

And it's a really interesting word, isn't it?

Matt Edmundson:

Uncertainty. Because you're right, I think when

Matt Edmundson:

we are uncertain as people, we tend to sort of

Matt Edmundson:

retreat into ourselves a little bit, don't we?

Matt Edmundson:

And so we spend less, we go out less, we do less

Matt Edmundson:

maybe of certain things like eat out or whatever.

Matt Edmundson:

Yep. And, and whilst it's interesting, you talk

Matt Edmundson:

about how the Titanic submarine resulted in lower

Matt Edmundson:

sales for some people, because it's the most

Matt Edmundson:

extraordinary sort of event, isn't it? And you

Matt Edmundson:

can you kind of go, well, it, maybe you've only

Matt Edmundson:

had like a very small percentage, but it actually

Matt Edmundson:

had some kind of impact which fascinate,

Matt Edmundson:

fascinates me. So you've got, you've got

Matt Edmundson:

uncertainty, but plus you've also got

Matt Edmundson:

distraction, haven't you? So you've got the

Matt Edmundson:

distract. And I mean, let's face it, you know,

Matt Edmundson:

the, the drama without getting political enough

Matt Edmundson:

and, you know, offending my US cousins, the drama

Matt Edmundson:

around the US election is, is unbelievably

Matt Edmundson:

addictive and, and serves as a huge distraction,

Matt Edmundson:

I think, in, in many things, you know, and I, I

Matt Edmundson:

just, I find the whole thing absolutely

Matt Edmundson:

fascinating in so many ways. But you're right, my

Matt Edmundson:

attention is there, plus my level of uncertainty.

Matt Edmundson:

Certainly in the uk, with what's going to happen

Matt Edmundson:

in the October budget, you're kind of like, well,

Matt Edmundson:

geez, these world events are actually having an

Matt Edmundson:

impact on me. So I can see how they would be

Matt Edmundson:

impacting a whole bunch of people, which has a,

Matt Edmundson:

has an effect. I don't know if you've got any

Matt Edmundson:

insights on this then Roll. I mean, how would

Matt Edmundson:

you, how would you counsel somebody who is

Matt Edmundson:

running an Ecommerce business right now? How do

Matt Edmundson:

you market well in times of uncertainty and

Matt Edmundson:

distraction like this? Because there's obviously

Matt Edmundson:

things that we can do when things are going okay,

Matt Edmundson:

but actually understanding the sign of the times

Matt Edmundson:

for want of a better expression and doing

Matt Edmundson:

something well in that time, well, that's a

Matt Edmundson:

different skill set in many ways, isn't it? And

Matt Edmundson:

so I'm kind of curious, is there any insight on

Matt Edmundson:

how to manage this?

Raul Galera:

I mean, I would say, and probably saying this

Raul Galera:

because it's the type of marketing that we do at

Raul Galera:

Referral Candy, but at the end of the day, brands

Raul Galera:

that work really well are those that have a

Raul Galera:

community around them. And it, you know, it

Raul Galera:

doesn't necessarily have to be a physical

Raul Galera:

community. And by physical, I don't mean like in

Raul Galera:

person and I also mean like, you know, like a,

Raul Galera:

like a Reddit, you know, like a subreddit or like

Raul Galera:

a Facebook group or anything like that. It's

Raul Galera:

literally a community of like, okay, you've been

Raul Galera:

able to identify a group of customers that

Raul Galera:

probably even before they bought from your brand,

Raul Galera:

they identify with you. And so you know, you can

Raul Galera:

use, you can use ads to get in front of those

Raul Galera:

people. I mean you can get really good at ads

Raul Galera:

targeting and figure out ways that you can again,

Raul Galera:

like, okay, these people fit this criteria

Raul Galera:

because they have these catch different, you

Raul Galera:

know, categories and they check all these boxes.

Raul Galera:

I want to get in front of them. Yeah, but at the

Raul Galera:

same time it's kind of creating that word of

Raul Galera:

mouth. And so you know, when you have a product

Raul Galera:

that it's not necessarily generic because, and I

Raul Galera:

don't mean like the product itself but like the

Raul Galera:

way that you're selling it to people and the way

Raul Galera:

that you're kind of like framing because you

Raul Galera:

know, you can sell T shirts but you can, you can

Raul Galera:

sell a million different types of T shirts to a

Raul Galera:

million different type of people and you know,

Raul Galera:

make them see it and realize, okay, that's,

Raul Galera:

that's mine. That's, you know, that's exactly me.

Raul Galera:

Like I, you know, I definitely need this. Right.

Raul Galera:

And so again, when you have, it all comes down to

Raul Galera:

product market fit. Right? So when you have

Raul Galera:

product market fit to the point that you, you're

Raul Galera:

able to just show your customers that you have

Raul Galera:

the product that they have been looking, looking

Raul Galera:

for even before they knew that they were looking

Raul Galera:

for it, you're gonna be able to generate word of

Raul Galera:

mouth around it. And yeah, and so you know, your

Raul Galera:

customers are going to talk to other people that

Raul Galera:

are going to start, they're going to start

Raul Galera:

posting on, posting on social media, they're

Raul Galera:

going to start living reviews, they're going to

Raul Galera:

start generating all these, you know, user

Raul Galera:

generated content that you can then leverage on

Raul Galera:

other, on other platforms. So you know, at the

Raul Galera:

end of the day, obviously ads are important and

Raul Galera:

you know, obviously a lot of the messaging that

Raul Galera:

we put out on referral candy is, you know, you

Raul Galera:

don't, don't, don't, don't waste your time on,

Raul Galera:

waste your money on ads. But you need ads. But

Raul Galera:

it's all about like get the most out of it. So

Raul Galera:

once don't just spend money on acquiring a

Raul Galera:

customer and then kind of forget about it. That

Raul Galera:

customer can become your salesperson.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Raul Galera:

Make sure that after they buy they're so happy

Raul Galera:

and they're so satisfied with your product that

Raul Galera:

they're ready to tell their friends about it. And

Raul Galera:

even on top of that you're, you're, you know,

Raul Galera:

coming up with a Some sort of like referral

Raul Galera:

structure that makes it even bigger of a no

Raul Galera:

brainer for them to refer. So yeah, that, and

Raul Galera:

that's kind of like the long term type of

Raul Galera:

marketing plan that you want to have.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, that. Powerful stuff. Powerful stuff. I

Matt Edmundson:

like this because I mean in times of uncertainty,

Matt Edmundson:

in times of distraction, you've got to stand out

Matt Edmundson:

and you've got to give people a compelling

Matt Edmundson:

reason. Right. And I think you can't be beige,

Matt Edmundson:

you can't be the same as everybody else. You have

Matt Edmundson:

got to stand out. So having, I love this, having

Matt Edmundson:

a community is a great idea. What that means for

Matt Edmundson:

you and your business is obviously very

Matt Edmundson:

interesting and very different to everybody else.

Matt Edmundson:

But focusing in on the community and focusing on

Matt Edmundson:

an expand, delivering an experience that you

Matt Edmundson:

know, just delivers. Wow. As we like to say on

Matt Edmundson:

the Ecommerce podcast, deliver. Well, I think are

Matt Edmundson:

always very sound old school marketing tactics

Matt Edmundson:

and principles. And I think you're right. I think

Matt Edmundson:

great ideas, you know, in times of uncertainty

Matt Edmundson:

and distraction. So what else has come out from

Matt Edmundson:

this research then? I mean what else has

Matt Edmundson:

surprised you?

Raul Galera:

So and the latest report, one of the, one of the

Raul Galera:

findings that I found more interesting is how

Raul Galera:

brands. So you know, the report is about

Raul Galera:

Ecommerce agencies, but at the end of the day

Raul Galera:

their behavior depends on their customers, which

Raul Galera:

are brands. And so you know, by asking agencies

Raul Galera:

in extension, we're getting data points from

Raul Galera:

hundreds of other merchants. Right. So the

Raul Galera:

picture gets really interesting because you're

Raul Galera:

again kind of like using agencies as a proxy, you

Raul Galera:

can estimate how the rest of the Ecommerce world

Raul Galera:

is doing, how brands are doing. And so one thing

Raul Galera:

that I found really interesting in this last

Raul Galera:

particular report is that so we always ask

Raul Galera:

agencies what's if they've noticed any changes in

Raul Galera:

terms of prices, price sensitivity. So when you

Raul Galera:

talk to customers about, you know, renewing your

Raul Galera:

contract or negotiating retainers, whether it's a

Raul Galera:

new customer or an existing customer or

Raul Galera:

negotiating new services or whatever it is, how

Raul Galera:

sensitive are these customers to these price

Raul Galera:

changes? And that the next question that we ask

Raul Galera:

is do you see brands more likely to hire in house

Raul Galera:

or to outsource to agencies? And so in the latest

Raul Galera:

report we got a spike in price sensitivity. So it

Raul Galera:

turns out that, you know, somewhere between

Raul Galera:

August, September, brands got more, more

Raul Galera:

sensitive to price. So more sensitive to price

Raul Galera:

changes. You know, it makes sense. They, you

Raul Galera:

know, everybody's looking after their costs right

Raul Galera:

now because of, you know, inflation. Costs are

Raul Galera:

going up and so you want to keep everything under

Raul Galera:

control. You're probably your CFO is, you know,

Raul Galera:

probably questioning every single line in the

Raul Galera:

budget, like, do we really need this? Like what's

Raul Galera:

discharged? They recognize this. So, you know,

Raul Galera:

it's happening in all across the board. And so

Raul Galera:

they, they did notice a spike in price

Raul Galera:

sensitivity, which you would think, okay, well

Raul Galera:

then, you know, that probably means that, that

Raul Galera:

brands are going to hire more in house. Like

Raul Galera:

they're, they're spending less money on agencies.

Raul Galera:

You know, if they're, if they're getting, you

Raul Galera:

know, turned off by some of the quotes that are

Raul Galera:

getting, that probably means that they're going

Raul Galera:

down a different route. But when we ask that

Raul Galera:

question about whether brands are going in house

Raul Galera:

or outsourcing, we, we got a vast majority of

Raul Galera:

agencies that saying that brands are outsourcing,

Raul Galera:

that they're more likely to outsource than to go

Raul Galera:

in house. So it's, it's kind of like a paradox,

Raul Galera:

right? Like, so, yeah, agencies are getting more

Raul Galera:

exp. In the eyes of brands, but brands are still

Raul Galera:

going after them. And I think, and the

Raul Galera:

explanation that I, that I got, which again it's,

Raul Galera:

it's just, it's my own explanation, I don't know

Raul Galera:

if it's, if it's correct, is that at the end of

Raul Galera:

the day, hiring an agency has a set of

Raul Galera:

intangibles for, for brands that make it more

Raul Galera:

attractive than hire an employee or hiring a team

Raul Galera:

in house. When you're hiring an agency, you're

Raul Galera:

not only getting access to their, you know, their

Raul Galera:

skills and their team and you know, and whatnot,

Raul Galera:

you're getting access to their creative data and

Raul Galera:

collective knowledge of all the brands they work

Raul Galera:

with. So you, as a CMO of an Ecommerce brand, you

Raul Galera:

have access to one data point, maybe a couple if

Raul Galera:

you have, you know, people in the industry that

Raul Galera:

you talk to. But when you're working with an

Raul Galera:

agency and you know, you're having a, a weird

Raul Galera:

month or weird week, you can say, hey, is this

Raul Galera:

normal? And they can say, oh yeah, all of the

Raul Galera:

other brands in your vertical are, you know, kind

Raul Galera:

of seeing the same thing. Or like, hey, we're

Raul Galera:

actually seeing some trends right now. Like, you

Raul Galera:

know, you can have access to that collective.

Raul Galera:

Yeah, intelligence, I would say that I feel like,

Raul Galera:

makes it really powerful than hiring in house.

Raul Galera:

Obviously, you know, hiring in house and versus

Raul Galera:

an agency has. It also depends on, you know,

Raul Galera:

what's the pricing model that the agency is going

Raul Galera:

after. Are they taking a commission on revenue?

Raul Galera:

Are they charging a flat fee? But, but again, I

Raul Galera:

thought it was interesting that there's like this

Raul Galera:

paradox of brands are going with agencies Even if

Raul Galera:

they find them more expensive, at the end of the

Raul Galera:

day, they're still settling for, for outsourcing

Raul Galera:

versus going in house.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, it's fascinating, isn't it? And I get on

Matt Edmundson:

one hand how that would be a paradox, you know,

Matt Edmundson:

and. But on the other hand, I guess one of the

Matt Edmundson:

things I am noticing is obviously ecom companies,

Matt Edmundson:

they're cutting costs quite a bit. Everyone's

Matt Edmundson:

becoming very cost conscious because it's. There

Matt Edmundson:

has been so many price hikes. It's actually quite

Matt Edmundson:

complicated now, I think, to rise. I'm not saying

Matt Edmundson:

you shouldn't increase prices, but I think people

Matt Edmundson:

have increased prices but still need to manage

Matt Edmundson:

costs. And so they're looking in, you know,

Matt Edmundson:

internally at how to do that. So I can see them

Matt Edmundson:

going, actually, we spend four grand a month with

Matt Edmundson:

that agency. Can we find an agency where we spend

Matt Edmundson:

three grand a month and get the same output?

Matt Edmundson:

Right. So I can see why people would ask that

Matt Edmundson:

question. But I guess I also see how internally I

Matt Edmundson:

might say, well, I need to hire two new people.

Matt Edmundson:

Right. So real life example, I suppose at our

Matt Edmundson:

company, I'm looking to hire two people at the

Matt Edmundson:

moment. It's a very real question now to ask

Matt Edmundson:

myself, well, do I actually want to hire somebody

Matt Edmundson:

or can I outsource this work? Right, right. And

Matt Edmundson:

so I'm, I'm looking at my own cost base and

Matt Edmundson:

going, right, what do I actually do in house and

Matt Edmundson:

what can I outsource? And so I can see how this

Matt Edmundson:

creates this sort of paradox. I'm looking maybe

Matt Edmundson:

to outsource more because I want to keep my

Matt Edmundson:

internal costs down, but in outsourcing more, I'm

Matt Edmundson:

going, oh, I'm not, I'm not happy with four grand

Matt Edmundson:

a month, dude, I need it to be three, you know,

Matt Edmundson:

that kind of thing. And I, I've seen that a lot,

Matt Edmundson:

actually. I've seen that a lot. I've seen

Matt Edmundson:

agencies, especially freelancers, so agencies

Matt Edmundson:

where it's just maybe one or two people, you

Matt Edmundson:

know, just sort of doing the ad spend and things

Matt Edmundson:

like that. I, I've seen them getting squeezed by

Matt Edmundson:

companies and because they are one man bands for

Matt Edmundson:

better, you know, their soul. And it's just them

Matt Edmundson:

really, that's why they're freelancers. It's

Matt Edmundson:

really hard to. Unless you're full on with work.

Matt Edmundson:

It's really hard to go, okay, I'll just drop my

Matt Edmundson:

prices for you, rather than just turning around

Matt Edmundson:

to them and saying, oh, well, if you don't want

Matt Edmundson:

to pay, go somewhere else. It's not actually an

Matt Edmundson:

easy thing. To say, is it. If you're a

Matt Edmundson:

freelancer, it's easier, I suppose, if you're an

Matt Edmundson:

agency, but even then everyone's a little bit

Matt Edmundson:

twitchy at the moment. So again, coming back to

Matt Edmundson:

your uncertainty observation, I think that's

Matt Edmundson:

interesting. I do think that's interesting. I'm

Matt Edmundson:

kind of. Go ahead.

Raul Galera:

I was gonna say, I think it also has to do maybe

Raul Galera:

with the learning curve. Curve. Because

Raul Galera:

especially at this time of the month. Sorry, at

Raul Galera:

this time of the year, if you are in that

Raul Galera:

position and you're an ecommerce brand, you know

Raul Galera:

that hiring an employee, you're probably not

Raul Galera:

gonna see any results anytime soon. Cause they

Raul Galera:

need time to ramp up. Agencies need it too. But

Raul Galera:

agencies usually come with SOPs and they're ready

Raul Galera:

to deploy almost because it's for them. It's sort

Raul Galera:

of like, this is literally my everyday. This is

Raul Galera:

literally what I do every single day. Like

Raul Galera:

you're, you know, you as a brand, you're probably

Raul Galera:

not that different from the 15 other brands that

Raul Galera:

I work with. So maybe that, that speed factor

Raul Galera:

might be an aspect that brands value over hiring

Raul Galera:

in house.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, it's an interesting one. I was going to

Matt Edmundson:

say, I'm kind of, I'm curious also whether

Matt Edmundson:

actually the traditional agency model that we've

Matt Edmundson:

experienced the last few years, whether that

Matt Edmundson:

actually needs to change as well. I appreciate

Matt Edmundson:

this is a much deeper conversation.

Raul Galera:

Yep.

Matt Edmundson:

Than what we're thinking, but I, I've not. We

Matt Edmundson:

have an agency, right. A media agency. And we

Matt Edmundson:

went down the traditional route of this is our

Matt Edmundson:

service, this is our retainer. You pay the

Matt Edmundson:

retainer, we do the service. The problem I think

Matt Edmundson:

people have got is, and this is my experience in

Matt Edmundson:

using agency, is that when you go to an agency,

Matt Edmundson:

you get a great service at the start. But if that

Matt Edmundson:

agency is good, they're going to grow, they're

Matt Edmundson:

going to get more clients, and the people that

Matt Edmundson:

are good for you are now going to be good for

Matt Edmundson:

three people, four people. And so the quality of

Matt Edmundson:

work for you gets less and less, the feedback

Matt Edmundson:

gets less and less, you get annoyed and then you

Matt Edmundson:

end up going to another agency and the whole

Matt Edmundson:

process repeats itself. One of the things that

Matt Edmundson:

we've done, and I can't give you any hard data

Matt Edmundson:

yet, Raul, I'm not going to lie because I just

Matt Edmundson:

don't know. I'm intrigued to see the results with

Matt Edmundson:

one of our agencies is we have gone to the market

Matt Edmundson:

and we've said, right, listen, this is the work

Matt Edmundson:

that we're going to do. This is the fee for that

Matt Edmundson:

but at the end of a predefined period, which in

Matt Edmundson:

this particular industry is going to be, I think

Matt Edmundson:

about five months, at the end of those five

Matt Edmundson:

months, your staff will be trained on our

Matt Edmundson:

processes and we'll be able to do a chunk of the

Matt Edmundson:

work. So we will help you get up and running and

Matt Edmundson:

we will train your staff. Now if you don't have

Matt Edmundson:

staff, we will carry on doing the work for you

Matt Edmundson:

under the traditional retainer model. But if you

Matt Edmundson:

do, we will train them and we will move from

Matt Edmundson:

doing the everyday work into a much more sort of

Matt Edmundson:

consultative coaching role to make sure the staff

Matt Edmundson:

stay on top of things and, and go forward. The

Matt Edmundson:

initial response to that actually has been really

Matt Edmundson:

positive. But like I say, it's all anecdotal at

Matt Edmundson:

the moment. And so part of me wonders in the

Matt Edmundson:

midst of all of this, whether the agencies which

Matt Edmundson:

change their models to whatever it is, maybe

Matt Edmundson:

could find a way to win.

Raul Galera:

Yeah, I've, I actually had a similar discussion

Raul Galera:

last week with Jordan West.

Matt Edmundson:

I know Jordan, he's a legend. He has been on the

Matt Edmundson:

show.

Raul Galera:

Yes. Oh yeah, I saw, I saw actually so, and you

Raul Galera:

know, he, he mentioned actually so I was on, in

Raul Galera:

his podcast and I was asking him so many

Raul Galera:

questions that at some point I felt like I was

Raul Galera:

the, the host. But, but one of the, one of the,

Raul Galera:

so we were talking about this particular question

Raul Galera:

about the retainers and the in house versus

Raul Galera:

outsourcing. He mentioned that, that agencies,

Raul Galera:

when they do like a, like a kind of performance

Raul Galera:

based or like, you know, revenue based type of,

Raul Galera:

you know, get a commission on the revenue Lyft or

Raul Galera:

something like that, that at some point if you do

Raul Galera:

too well, it will get you fire as an agency.

Matt Edmundson:

Yes.

Raul Galera:

Because you'll have the CFO saying, wait a

Raul Galera:

minute, 30k. Like, oh sure, you know, we made,

Raul Galera:

you know, I don't know if these were the numbers

Raul Galera:

that he mentioned. I'm sure it was just like, you

Raul Galera:

know, kind of just relatively figures. But you

Raul Galera:

know, if you make a brand generate a million

Raul Galera:

dollars and you get 30k out of it, 3%, sure.

Raul Galera:

Great. You know, you've, you've made the brand

Raul Galera:

get a million dollars in revenue, but they're

Raul Galera:

going to see a 30k bill and the CFO in question

Raul Galera:

is going to say, wait a minute, do we really need

Raul Galera:

to spend 30k on this? Because obviously. And

Raul Galera:

again, it's the same thing that we were talking

Raul Galera:

about earlier. In hindsight it looks pretty easy.

Raul Galera:

It's like, oh, okay, well this agency got it for

Raul Galera:

30. There's gotta be an agency that maybe gets a

Raul Galera:

little bit less, but we pay a lot less. Right.

Raul Galera:

And so, and I feel like that's a raw mentality,

Raul Galera:

but at the end of the day in a company, you have

Raul Galera:

a ton of different stakeholders. The CFO has one

Raul Galera:

job and you know, and it's, it's also, you know,

Raul Galera:

I think it's also the CMO or the CEO job of

Raul Galera:

saying, no, no, no, you know, we, we need us,

Raul Galera:

we're not. We wouldn't be able to get where we

Raul Galera:

are. But again, in hindsight, it always makes it

Raul Galera:

a little bit more difficult to see. But yeah,

Raul Galera:

that's so, you know, answering your question, I

Raul Galera:

don't know, I don't know what's the ideal pricing

Raul Galera:

model when again even like what it could be

Raul Galera:

considered like the most fair type of approach,

Raul Galera:

you know, can also. And you know, we've seen our

Raul Galera:

referral candy too. I mean, referral candy, we

Raul Galera:

take a commission on refer purchases. So on the

Raul Galera:

revenue that the referral program generates.

Raul Galera:

Yeah. At some point we get questions. At some

Raul Galera:

point it's, you know, when we are able to help a

Raul Galera:

brand get to a certain size in the referral

Raul Galera:

program, some of them have question of like,

Raul Galera:

well, whether, you know, I'm paying a lot. Like,

Raul Galera:

you can prove what you've generated, but the bill

Raul Galera:

is there, the invoice is there. And so I can see

Raul Galera:

how it can generate that kind of situation.

Raul Galera:

Whether it's a brand talking to an agency or a

Raul Galera:

brand talking to an app.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, absolutely. It's really fascinating, isn't

Matt Edmundson:

it? I mean, the whole thing just. And if you're

Matt Edmundson:

listening to this and you're an Ecommerce owner,

Matt Edmundson:

then, and you know, having sat on both sides of

Matt Edmundson:

the fence, having been and still running agency

Matt Edmundson:

and having been and still running my own

Matt Edmundson:

Ecommerce businesses, I get to see it from both

Matt Edmundson:

sides. I really do. And I think that I would

Matt Edmundson:

just. Probably the best advice I could give you

Matt Edmundson:

is just communicate well and ask lots of

Matt Edmundson:

questions. Don't let the anger and resentment

Matt Edmundson:

build up, have the conversations early. And I

Matt Edmundson:

think agencies are learning more now to adapt to

Matt Edmundson:

that and I think it's an important thing to do.

Matt Edmundson:

And of course, I mean, you mentioned Jordan West.

Matt Edmundson:

He was on the show. We were talking about TikTok

Matt Edmundson:

shops and he was on the show, I think, back in

Matt Edmundson:

May, if you want to check out that episode, Dear

Matt Edmundson:

Listener, it was a great episode. He's again such

Matt Edmundson:

a legend. He and I are on WhatsApp all the time,

Matt Edmundson:

just chatting away. He's such A good guy. So I'm

Matt Edmundson:

curious to hear that conversation you had with

Matt Edmundson:

him. If I'm honest with you, Raul, I'm going to

Matt Edmundson:

listen to that one. Speaking of questions. Right.

Matt Edmundson:

One of the things I like to do in the show, which

Matt Edmundson:

I say like to do is a more recent thing that

Matt Edmundson:

we've been doing is ask a guest for a question.

Matt Edmundson:

For me, this is where I ask you for a guest. I'm

Matt Edmundson:

not going to answer it now. I'm going to answer

Matt Edmundson:

it on my social media platforms. So this is my

Matt Edmundson:

little trick, my little come and join me on

Matt Edmundson:

social media thing for you, dear listener. Raul,

Matt Edmundson:

what's the question?

Raul Galera:

Well, we kind of talked about it earlier, but I

Raul Galera:

want to get your full answer on this. How do you

Raul Galera:

see the US elections affecting Q4 sales?

Matt Edmundson:

Fantastic. If you want to know how I see the US

Matt Edmundson:

election affecting Q4 sales, then come join me on

Matt Edmundson:

social media. You can find me at edmondson, both

Matt Edmundson:

on LinkedIn and Instagram and I'll be posting the

Matt Edmundson:

answer to that and the other questions I've been

Matt Edmundson:

asked soon. So, yeah, do come, follow me. Well,

Matt Edmundson:

anything else in closing? I mean you've, you put

Matt Edmundson:

this together every month. Is there anything else

Matt Edmundson:

in the data which you found, which you've kind of

Matt Edmundson:

gone, that's a little bit surprising?

Raul Galera:

I don't know if it's surprising, but it's just

Raul Galera:

something I like and that. So the last question

Raul Galera:

that I ask, the last two questions that I ask

Raul Galera:

agency owners are, you know, how you see your

Raul Galera:

agency's revenue looking like in the next six

Raul Galera:

months. And then also how do you see

Raul Galera:

opportunities in the Ecommerce world looking like

Raul Galera:

in the next six months? So it's more like, you

Raul Galera:

know, just let's predict the future, right? Like,

Raul Galera:

how do you see it working? And you know, even

Raul Galera:

when we were having like months with like, like

Raul Galera:

negative responses on marketing budgets, on price

Raul Galera:

sensitivity, on you know, on different, like

Raul Galera:

different aspects that we ask agency owners,

Raul Galera:

those answers were always positive. The answer is

Raul Galera:

kind of, what's the outlook? You know, it does

Raul Galera:

not surprise me. And I've talked to a few people

Raul Galera:

about it and they say, oh yeah, like, you know, I

Raul Galera:

mean, and you know, the majority of our owners

Raul Galera:

are entrepreneurs. They have to be positive.

Matt Edmundson:

I mean, it's got to be optimistic.

Raul Galera:

Exactly, exactly. So that's something I

Raul Galera:

particularly love. And so again we, you know,

Raul Galera:

this, this month was no difference. I asked, you

Raul Galera:

know, how do you see the US Elections playing

Raul Galera:

out? How you see, again, we talked about the

Raul Galera:

marketing, but marketing budgets were up, but

Raul Galera:

because of Black Fridays every Monday

Raul Galera:

preparation. But again we talked about price

Raul Galera:

sensitivity and all that and. Yeah, but how do

Raul Galera:

you see everything looking like in six months? Oh

Raul Galera:

no, it's amazing. So I mean I love it. I mean

Raul Galera:

it's. And to be honest with you I'll be worried

Raul Galera:

the day that I see negative outlook in that.

Matt Edmundson:

That's true. Yeah. Because then you know you've

Matt Edmundson:

got, if the entrepreneurs are downbeat you've got

Matt Edmundson:

a real problem, haven't you? Yeah. I think that

Matt Edmundson:

there is a blind optimism, isn't there with

Matt Edmundson:

entrepreneurs And I actually quite like that

Matt Edmundson:

because you need people who go no we, this is

Matt Edmundson:

going to turn around, we can, we can do something

Matt Edmundson:

here, there's opportunity for us, let's go take

Matt Edmundson:

the hill. When everything around them is

Matt Edmundson:

collapsing, you know and there's something quite

Matt Edmundson:

magical if not self denial about that. It's one

Matt Edmundson:

of those and I think you need people around you

Matt Edmundson:

like that. And agency owners especially and I

Matt Edmundson:

think Ecommerce entrepreneurs cut from the same

Matt Edmundson:

cloth when you talk to an agency, if I go and

Matt Edmundson:

talk to an adwords agency, give them my account

Matt Edmundson:

details, they're going to look at that and go

Matt Edmundson:

man, we can totally kill this for you. Right?

Matt Edmundson:

They're going to say, they're going to say that

Matt Edmundson:

because that's what they're going to say because

Matt Edmundson:

that's what they actually believe and think if

Matt Edmundson:

they didn't, oh mate, we can't beat that. Or may.

Matt Edmundson:

It's just downhill from, for you from here, isn't

Matt Edmundson:

it? It's that kind of actually you need that,

Matt Edmundson:

that sense of positivity. The danger of course is

Matt Edmundson:

you oversell and under deliver and you get caught

Matt Edmundson:

up in that excitement, don't you? And so I think

Matt Edmundson:

as Ecommerce entrepreneurs we, I listen to agency

Matt Edmundson:

owners and I'm like, I just need to filter what

Matt Edmundson:

they're saying because they're passionate,

Matt Edmundson:

they're excited and then there's a reality of

Matt Edmundson:

life.

Raul Galera:

Yeah, yeah. I mean you're, you know, you're,

Raul Galera:

you're selling and I do a lot of sales calls,

Raul Galera:

referral candies. So like if you're, if you're an

Raul Galera:

Ecommerce store and you request a demo, there's a

Raul Galera:

chance that I'll be the one that's on the other

Raul Galera:

side of the screen and you know, you, and you

Raul Galera:

gotta, I mean you gotta believe in what you're

Raul Galera:

selling.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Raul Galera:

You gotta believe in what you're, what you're

Raul Galera:

capable of doing, you know, whether it's an

Raul Galera:

agency or an app. So I totally get that. And you

Raul Galera:

gotta have that optimism.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, yeah, you do now. I love it, Love it. Well,

Matt Edmundson:

listen, man, if people want to reach out to you,

Matt Edmundson:

I mean, you've mentioned it at the start of the

Matt Edmundson:

show, but let's talk about it again now. If

Matt Edmundson:

people want to reach out to you, if they want to

Matt Edmundson:

connect with you, what's the best way to do?

Raul Galera:

If they want to email me, it's

Raul Galera:

raul"referralcandy.com and if they want to check

Raul Galera:

out the report, that's referralcandy.com/eaci,

Raul Galera:

which stands for Ecommerce Agency Conference

Raul Galera:

Index.

Matt Edmundson:

Yep. And do check it out. I mean, I've read

Matt Edmundson:

through the September report is very, very

Matt Edmundson:

insightful.

Raul Galera:

Thank you.

Matt Edmundson:

And yeah, really, really well put together

Matt Edmundson:

documents. So do sign up for that. Do go and get

Matt Edmundson:

that. It is free to access, so go check that out.

Matt Edmundson:

And of course, do connect with Raul if you've got

Matt Edmundson:

any questions, even if it's just to say hello,

Matt Edmundson:

I'm sure Raul would love to hear from you. And of

Matt Edmundson:

course we will link to everything that Raul has

Matt Edmundson:

given us in the show notes as well, which you can

Matt Edmundson:

get with the transcript and all that sort of good

Matt Edmundson:

stuff. You can get it on the website

Matt Edmundson:

ecommercepodcast.net and of course, like I say,

Matt Edmundson:

you can get it in the show notes to scroll down

Matt Edmundson:

on your app. And if you sign up to the

Matt Edmundson:

newsletter, that'll be coming to you anyway, just

Matt Edmundson:

automagically. Well, listen, man, it's good to

Matt Edmundson:

see you again and good to chat again. We should

Matt Edmundson:

do this more often.

Raul Galera:

Definitely not every three years. Probably in a

Raul Galera:

few months.

Matt Edmundson:

Maybe let's get you on sooner next time.

Raul Galera:

Sounds good.

Matt Edmundson:

But genuinely, thanks for coming on, man. Really

Matt Edmundson:

appreciate it. Thanks for sharing the insights

Matt Edmundson:

and love what you guys are doing and thanks for

Matt Edmundson:

putting it out there. Thanks for making it free

Matt Edmundson:

for people like me to get some insights. Really

Matt Edmundson:

appreciate it.

Raul Galera:

Yeah, thank you. And thanks for having me again.

Matt Edmundson:

No worries. What a great conversation. Huge

Matt Edmundson:

thanks again to Raul for joining me today. Now be

Matt Edmundson:

sure to follow the Ecommerce podcast wherever you

Matt Edmundson:

get your podcasts from because we've got some

Matt Edmundson:

more great conversations lined up and I of course

Matt Edmundson:

don't want you to miss any of them. Why would I?

Matt Edmundson:

I wouldn't. And in case no one has told you yet

Matt Edmundson:

today, let me be the first. You are awesome. Yes.

Matt Edmundson:

You are created awesome. It's just a burden you

Matt Edmundson:

have to bear. Raul's got to bear it. I've got to

Matt Edmundson:

bear it. You've got to bear it as well.

Raul Galera:

Now.

Matt Edmundson:

The Ecommerce Podcast is produced by podjunction.

Matt Edmundson:

You can find our entire archive of episodes on

Matt Edmundson:

your favorite podcast app. The team that makes

Matt Edmundson:

this show possible is Sadaf Baynon and Tanya

Matt Edmundson:

Hutsuliak. Our theme music was written by Josh

Matt Edmundson:

Edmundson, and as I mentioned, if you'd like to

Matt Edmundson:

read the transcript or show notes, simply head

Matt Edmundson:

over to the website ecommercepodcast.net where

Matt Edmundson:

you can sign up for the weekly newsletter and all

Matt Edmundson:

of the good stuff gets delivered straight to your

Matt Edmundson:

inbox. Totally for free. But that's it from me.

Matt Edmundson:

That's it from Raul. Thank you so much for

Matt Edmundson:

joining us. Have a fantastic week wherever you

Matt Edmundson:

are in the world. I will see you next time. Bye

Matt Edmundson:

for now.

Raul Galera:

SA.

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