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Learn more: https://courses.mindful.money/financial-independence-bootcamp

In this episode, I speak with Liz Frazier Peck, a Fee-only Certified Financial Planner and a passionate advocate for financial literacy. Liz shares her journey from growing up in a financially savvy household to becoming a leading voice in personal finance education.

We discuss the importance of introducing financial concepts early in life, drawing parallels between learning to swim and learning to manage money. Liz's approachable insights remind us that comfort with financial topics begins in the formative years, shaping our ability to navigate the financial pools of adulthood with confidence.

Liz also opens up about her personal experiences, from her initial career moves to the pivotal moments that steered her back to her roots in financial planning. Her story is a testament to the power of education and the impact of having financially literate role models.

This conversation is not just about numbers; it's about preparing the next generation to face financial realities with knowledge and confidence. Whether you're a parent looking to guide your children or an adult seeking to truly understand finance for yourself, this episode offers valuable perspectives on making financial education accessible and engaging.

Join us as we explore how to create a foundation of financial understanding that can support a lifetime of informed decisions.

📺 Watch on YouTube

https://youtu.be/niVNmXmW5vs

Key Takeaways

00:03:16 - Importance of Financial Education from a Young Age

00:13:19 - The State of Financial Literacy and Education

00:25:02 - Teaching Financial Concepts at Different Ages

00:30:56 - The Concept and Benefits of Giving Children an Allowance

00:33:39 - Avoiding Misinformation in Financial Education

Tweetable Quotes

"I love seeing more and more people talking about finance now because it's just, we talked about it with our families when we were younger, and I think it did the opposite of stress us out as adults. It made us comfortable with money. It's kind of like if you take an 18-year-old to a pool and you've never introduced them to water or never taught them to swim, and you just throw them in there, they're going to be like, what are you doing? This is crazy. So it's the same thing with money."

"I think that adults need to realize that they don't have to understand what a hedge fund manager does to be successful in their own financial management. There are some basic ideas that really are in my book for kids. If adults understand, it makes a big difference and they don't need to know anything more complicated."

"I believe allowance should be more about giving them the opportunity to practice and learn on their own. Make it relevant, then they're interested in it because it's theirs."

Guest Resources

Website - https://www.lizfrazier.com

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/lizmfrazier

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/lizfrazierpeck/

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lfpprofile/

Book Mentioned:

Beyond Piggy Banks and Lemonade Stands: How to Teach Young Kids About Finance - https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Piggy-Banks-Lemonade-Stands/dp/1475847610

Mindful Money Resources

For all the free stuff at Mindful Money: https://mindful.money/resources

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To buy Jonathan’s second book – Mindful Investing: https://www.amazon.com/Mindful-Investing-Outcome-Greater-Well-Being/dp/1608688763

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For more complex, one on one financial planning and investing support with Jonathan or a member of Jonathan’s team: https://www.epwealth.com/our-team/berkeley/jonathan-deyoe/

Website: https://mindful.money

Jonathan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathandeyoe

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Liz Frazier Peck 0:00 - 0:3

I think that I love seeing more and more people talking about finance now because it's just, we talked about it with our families when we were younger, and I think it did the opposite of stress us out as adult. It made us comfortable with money. It's kind of like if you take 18 year old to a pool and you've never introduced them to water or never taught them to swim, and you just throw them in there, they're going to be like, what are you doing? This is crazy. So it's the same thing with money and you, it sounds like also we just grew up kind of being comfortable with the concepts.

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Jonathan DeYoe 0:59 - 1:34

Hey, welcome back. On this episode of the Mindful Money Podcast, I'm chatting with Liz Fraser peck. Liz is a fee only certified financial planner. She is a Forbes contributor and executive director of financial literacy at Copper. Her mission is to create simple and relatable content, tools and resources so anyone can learn the basics of money management to feel protected and secure, have peace of mind, and most importantly, discover and reach their real dreams. She's also the author of, and this is why we wanted to have her on the podcast, Beyond Piggy Banks and Lemonade stands, how to teach young kids about finance. Liz, welcome to the Mindful Money podcast.

Liz Frazier Peck 1:34 - 1:36

Thank you so much for having me.

Jonathan DeYoe 1:37 - 1:47

First, I'm excited for this conversation. I think we both have some similar thoughts about the importance of education just for family outcomes. But first, before we dig into it, where do you call home and where are you connecting from?

Liz Frazier Peck 1:47 - 1:55

So I live in Katona, New York, and that's in Westchester county, which is about an hour north of New York City.

Jonathan DeYoe 1:55 - 1:57

Okay. Did you grow up there? Where'd you grow up?

Liz Frazier Peck 1:57 - 2:25

No, I didn't. I grew up in the south. I grew up in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. And actually my mother and father and brother, both brothers, are all still in North Carolina. So I get down there quite a bit. But I moved up here. I did the opposite of what most people do. I moved up here when I was like 30. Most people start in New York and then they move south for the weather. And I still haven't totally acclimated to the weather up here, but it's great. We have our family raise our kids up here, and it's a great place to live.

Jonathan DeYoe 2:25 - 2:28

So when did you make that move? You said you were 30. That's when you made the move?

Liz Frazier Peck 2:28 - 3:14

I think I was about 30, yeah, I just, I lived in different North Carolina areas my whole life, so I went to undergrad and grad school there and then worked in Charlotte, North Carolina, and I got a job opportunity with my company for a promotion that was in New York City. And I just was single and I didn't have kids. And I kind of had always thought about moving, but I needed something to push me because I was very comfortable and happy in my life. And it was one of those moments that I was like, I'm going to do something I'm scared of that's totally out of my comfort zone, which, New York City was totally out of my comfort zone. But so I just decided I was going to do it, and I was like, you know what? A year. I can do anything for a year. I'll do it for a year, and then I'll come back if it's terrible. And then I met my husband up here and had kids. And then you're just up here.

Jonathan DeYoe 3:14 - 3:15

The rest is history.

Liz Frazier Peck 3:16 - 3:17

History.

Jonathan DeYoe 3:17 - 3:25

Growing up in North Carolina, what did you learn about money and entrepreneurship? What were the lessons you think your parents were trying to teach you? And then what are some of the things you just kind of picked up?

Liz Frazier Peck 3:25 - 4:31

Jonathan DeYoe 4:32 - 4:39

So first thing that popped into my head. It was you in 9th grade, or was it 9th grade? Did you have a sign? Fee only. Fee only. Fee only.

Liz Frazier Peck 4:39 - 4:43

It was really a popular move back then. That was the big thing.

Jonathan DeYoe 4:44 - 4:46

No one else had any clue what you were talking about.

Liz Frazier Peck 4:46 - 4:50

Was all the rage in my high school. The only financial planning.

Jonathan DeYoe 4:50 - 4:51

That is so funny.

Liz Frazier Peck [4:51 - 5:26]: It's funny because I remember very clearly my mom, she was a nurse, and then she left when she had kids, and she wanted to do something, and she got a small inheritance from her father when her father passed. So she went to different financial professionals in the area, and she just. They all were kind of trying to sell her something, and she. She wanted just somebody to say, you know, I think this would just be a really good investment for you. And so. And she couldn't find that, so she decided she'd start her own. And she was pretty early on in the fee only financial planning, so it was the thing in our household.

Liz Frazier Peck 5:54 - 6:35

Yeah, I agree. And I think that I love seeing more and more people talking about finance now, because it's just, we talked about it with our families when we were younger, and I think it did the opposite of stress us out as adults. You know, I mean, it. It made us comfortable with money. You know, I mean, it's kind of like if you take a 18 year old to a pool and you've never introduced them to water or never taught them to swim, and you just throw them in there, they're going to be like, what are you doing? This is crazy. So it's the same thing with money. You know, it just, we're I and you, it sounds like also we just grew up kind of being comfortable with the concepts. It's not a scary, taboo thing to us, and, you know, it's something that's just a part of our daily lives.

Jonathan DeYoe 6:35 - 7:16

I want to peel it back a little bit because I'm curious about. So were you raised in sort of a middle class, average family means, or did you have more money growing up? And I asked the question because I was raised with nothing. Like, we were. Like, we had government food, government cheese and peanut butter and stuff that we ate as a kid. So it's like, yeah, it was rough growing up, but I always had the belief that I could be better, and I always was learning about money, and I knew how the system worked. And my dad was like, you can become. And I think that really helped. But I'm wondering if the lesson is different if you come from a family of means and get the education. I'm just curious if you can tease that out right now, or is that too much too fast?

Liz Frazier Peck 7:16 - 8:24

That's. No, that's an interesting question. I actually haven't gotten that before. So I think that what sticks out for me growing up, we had means, but by no means did I ever feel that I was wealthy or upper class, but we always had everything that we needed. My dad was a doctor. My mom was a financial planner. But what sticks out to me is they both had their own businesses. So my mom had her own business, and she went the fee only route. My dad had his own practice. He was a psychiatrist. So they both could have, and they both did very well with their practices, but they both could have done something a little different with their experience and talents and maybe made more money if they went and worked for a big company or big hospital or something like that. But what was so important when it comes to that kind of stuff growing up is to do something that you love and to be your own boss. And that was really what stood out to me. Growing up is the money will come, and the money is important, but you have to do something that you love. And I can't tell you this was another thing. 9th grade, be your own boss. Never work for somebody else. Always be your own boss. So I think that that's kind of where what I think of when I think about how we grew up in.

Jonathan DeYoe 8:24 - 8:41

That sense, I got the same message, be your own boss. And I've carried that the whole way, which is interesting, because you said you moved to New York with a promotion, so you had a boss. Right? So explain your career arc. Just before we get to the book. Talk about the professional arc.

Yeah. So I actually worked for my mom in my early twenties out of college, because I just had no idea what I wanted to do. Always had this bug, obviously, of having my own business. I wanted to do something that was important, that I cared about, that was defining. And, you know, I started with my mom's business and I just, I was too young and I also really wanted to be independent. So I decided to go get my MBA. Just because I was procrastinating, I didn't know what I wanted to do and it was a good tool to have. So I got my MBA and I liked marketing. So I went into marketing. I did a couple marketing jobs. The job that I had with the promotion to move up to the city was a marketing job or a media company. And then from there I moved to Forbes. When I was up in the city, I moved and started doing sales and then marketing director at Forbes Media. And I remember very clearly with the business journals and Forbes being like, I am happy every day. I work with great people. I love my company, I'm making money. Maybe this is all I need. Maybe that whole idea of having my own business and doing my own thing, maybe this is good enough. Like, what more can I ask for? But it was just always in the back of my head and, you know, because you're an entrepreneur also, I mean, it's just, it kind of has always stuck with you. And when I had my kids, when I first really got pregnant with my daughter, I just went into this full mode of, we need to get our wills set up, we need to really get tight on our budget. What if I want to take time off for the babies? Like, we need to have a plan for that. We also got to start looking at retirement, college, savings. And it hit me so hard that this was financial planning and this was what financial planning was about, that it's really about preparing and protecting families. And so I almost immediately sat down with my husband and I was like, this is what I want to do. I want to work with my mom, I want to learn the business, and then I want to have my own business, and this is it. So, and he was really supportive and we just figured out a way to make it work. And, you know, in the beginning, it's hard, it's not easy, and you're building a business and you don't have a lot of income and, but I really, really loved it. And I was just completely clear that's what I wanted to do. And so it took a couple of years at my CFP. I learned the business with my mom, and then I started seeing clients up here. And then it really took a turn for me into also providing financial education when I started meeting with clients. And there are these very intelligent people who are experts in their field and whatever that is. And they'd say, God, I am so embarrassed. I know nothing about money. Like, I don't even understand what a mutual fund is. And I just remember thinking to myself, well, of course you don't. Nobody taught you. How would you ever know that? So then I started talking to my kids about money and just doing little activities, and it kind of grew from there. I started writing for Forbes Media. I went back to people I knew at Forbes. They actually asked me to be a contributor once they found out I was in finance. And so I started writing about teaching kids about money. And I had a publisher reach out to me, asking me if I was interested in doing a book. So that's kind of the long answer of how I ended up here.

You didn't have to search for a publisher. That's so lucky. It's so painful to search for a publisher.

Yeah, I'm trying that now. And it is hard.

Yes. Wait, wait, you're trying it now? Didn't the first publisher want to publish the second book?

It's a different type of book, so it didn't make as much sense. So I decided to look at different publishers.

So now that I know there's a second book, we'll talk about that in a second. But I want to loop back to this. So there's a lot of, like, really crazy statistics, bad statistics about adult financial literacy, and wonder if you can paint that picture.

Yeah, I mean, the picture's pretty grim, I think, and I don't have the exact statistics in front of me, but I know that the majority of, I think the biggest takeaway for me is the majority of american us adults. If an emergency hit, they would not have the emergency savings to cover it. And I think that statistic right there, I think it's something like 50% don't have $1,000, something like that. But that really sticks with me because it shows that how quickly somebody could get into a downward cycle. And we all have things, just life happens. So if something happens to your car, you get fired. If you don't have emergency savings, you can see how quickly you go down the rabbit hole of, well, I'll use my card for this, or I'll use my card for this month, but then once the emergency's passed or you get another job, you can't necessarily pay off that credit card. So it's just sitting there earning money. And so I think that's probably one of the more important statistics.

Yeah. And there's, I mean, there's tons of them. Do you, in your peer group. Growing up, you were unique because your mom was a CFP and you carried the sign. The only. No one else knew what you were talking about. But did you have, like, a financial class in middle school, high school, something? Was there anything that taught you anything about money? Nothing? Okay.

Not one thing? Nope. My mom came again in the third grade with the newspaper, and that was it.

So why do you think we don't have some kind of. Because I remember trigonometry. Like, I remember I took a trigonometry class, and that's really served me right. That's been very helpful throughout my life. Sine and cosine. But we don't have any financial literacy, so do you know why that is like, that seems like a missed opportunity from an education perspective.

I mean, that's the question. And I think there's very few adults, teachers, legislators. I think there are very few adults who would say that financial education should not be taught in high schools.

Exactly.

Yeah. So I don't think that's a question about how important it is. I mean, it is, I believe, and this is with all respect to all courses out there, I think it's one of the most valuable courses that can be taught. I mean, there is very few areas where it touches every part of our lives. From the second we turn 18 to the second we pass, we are using finances to make decision around our first apartments. Do we get a roommate? What jobs are we going to take? What taxes are we taking out? Should we travel? Where do we eat? Retiring? I mean, everything so important to be taught at a young age so that you're comfortable with it and you understand it when you get thrown out into the world and make adult decisions. I think it comes down to a lot of things. It's very hard to get legislation passed at a state level to make it mandated. And the Council of Economic Education just came out with their 2024 survey of the states. And I was watching the event live, and in the past two years, twelve states have mandated it. I think there's about 15 more states to go. So there's been a lot of progress over the past couple years, but we're just not there yet. And it really comes down to, you have to have somebody who's really dedicated at the state level who is willing to fight for this and get it passed, because then when you look at teachers workloads, I mean, teachers have so much work and they're trying to fit so much into a tiny slot of time. So you can see where you'd have to take something away to teach it. And that's really hard to actually pass legislation to do.

Yeah, for sure. So this kind of comes full circle that it's a problem. Is this what led you to write the book? How did. So we got to teach the kids somehow. Is this, you know, the problem exists. Is this why you write the book or is there a different. I have kids, I should write this book for them. What was your thinking?

It was, yes. I mean, it was that these kids aren't learning this. They're not learning it in school. I don't see this being something that's going to be added to classrooms quickly. And it's just my thought process was, this is so simple. It's so simple to teach young kids about finance. And I think that adults, it's on us as parents to ensure our kids get financial education, because they're just, most of them are not getting it in high schools, definitely not middle schools or elementary schools. So it's on us. But I think that adults and parents just, if they're not super comfortable with money, it's intimidating. So it's an intimidating thought. Like, do I have to understand investing to talk to my kids about money? Or what if I'm not doing well with my money? How do I talk to my kids about it? And so I wrote this book and got interested in financial education for kids because it's so easy to teach them. It takes almost no extra time. It's things that can be incorporated and things you're already doing anyway. It's games that you can play with them, such simple things that parents can do for their kids that will start building this foundation that builds upon itself. Then they're more comfortable with these subjects. Then when they get older, they're more comfortable as a teenager, maybe when they're making money to start having a budget and thinking about saving and developing some habits. So then when they're an adult, these aren't foreign topics to them, and they're able to understand even more complex things. So that's why I wrote it, because it's something that's just, it's so simple for parents to implement.

So where did you go? Did you just go into your own head and come up with these ideas, or what did you go for? The resources to write the book? What did you rely on?

God, I read everything there was to read out there, and I used my own resources. You know, I thought about kind of what, as an adult, what's important to understand. And I just started trying to, like, simplify that going down level, then down another level. When you're thinking about just a budget, for example, what do we need to understand? What's the basis of a budget? How can I make this more simple for younger people? And it's needs versus wants. Okay, well, how do I explain needs versus wants to kids? And how could I make it? You know, I had little kids, so, like, how can I make it interesting for them? They're not gonna sit there for a PowerPoint lesson, and nobody wants to give that. So I would play games like, is this a need or a want? And, you know, it'd be fun. And my kids would always be like, who would turn it around on me? Where I'd say something like, God, I need a piece of chocolate? And they're like, mom, you want a piece of chocolate you don't need? And they still do that to me.

Right. You're right. So your household becomes kind of a lab for the book.

Yeah. My husband knew way more than he wanted to know about finance.

So in the research, when you're reading, everything is. There are other books that you would also recommend.

There are. I don't have. I can think about it and get back to you with, like, specific ones. There are a lot of good books out there that incorporate finance into, like, kids books. So. But when I wrote mine, I didn't. I saw some that were for kids, directed to kids about learning money, but I didn't see a lot that were for parents on how to teach kids, because that's a very different kind of goal. And again, I just. I thought if parents knew how easy it is to teach something to their kids that's so valuable that I wanted to tell them.

And I think that's one of the important parts of the book, and you kind of touched on this a second ago, is because adults are themselves weak in financial literacy. They don't have the confidence to be good mentors or educators for their kids. So how do adults go about building that confidence when they themselves are like, I'm terrible at this?

I think it's. Again, this is why we need to be talking about finance at the beginning, because there's no reason for adults to feel so intimidated about finance, but we just do because it's been such a taboo subject. So that's a problem that really is not going to fully change until this next generation, I think, because we're getting so much better at normalizing the conversations. But for adults, I think that they need to realize that they don't have to understand, like, what a hedge fund manager does to be successful in their own financial management. There's some basic ideas that really are in my book for kids. If adults understand it makes a big difference and they don't need to know anything more complicated. It's around saving. Put some of your paycheck. Pay yourself first. Put some of your paycheck away. Don't worry about where it's going right now. Just get started. It's about budgeting. Don't spend more than you make. And it's about also growing your money and thinking about investing. And there's such simple ways that you can invest with ETF's and mutual funds and things like that, and brokerage accounts that you can open on your own. So I think that's the biggest hurdle for adults, is getting out of the mindset that I can't learn finance or I'm not a math person. That's another thing that I get, because they can. It's actually really simple. They've just been conditioned to think that it's complicated. And I have to say, and I'm sure you see this also. Our industry is to blame for this. People get on tv and get on podcasts and talk about money, and I don't understand what they're talking about. I've been on panels where I really genuinely don't understand what the other financial experts are saying. So I think our industry has made it way more complicated than it needs to be.

So I've never had the opportunity to ask this question. So I'm going to ask the question. It's very direct. I'm not trying to throw you under the bus.

Right.

Why does our industry do that, do you think? Because I totally agree with you and I have my own thoughts on this, and you can take a pass and I'll answer it if you want, but.

Well, I think if it's too complicated for somebody to do on their own, then they need to hire somebody.

Hire us. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's the devious nature of the financial services industry writ large. Yeah, I totally agree. In all your work and in my work, what we're trying to do is just simplify it so everyone can just. I think we talked about this before we got on. Financial advisory is a luxury good, and it's not necessary for your success. We don't know anything special. Like, it's not rocket science. We know some simple things. We hold people to task. We help them figure out their goals. We help them model out what they need to do to reach those goals and then help them follow through. It's more psychology than it is financial intelligence. It's more psychology anyway.

Yeah. And I think also, I mean, this is, with any industry, there's a lot of buzzwords in our industry, and you can sound really intelligent. The more buzzwords you throw in there. And it's a bit of a control thing, and it's a bit of an ego thing, I think. But the smartest people I know are the ones who can take those super complex subjects and make it simple to others. So I think that there's a little bit of all of that in there.

And it heartens me that you're out there, I'm out there. There's actually a lot of really good. JL Collins book is incredible. There's a lot of good stuff that's out there that's actually teaching really good things. I think it's getting better.

I agree. And I think that's because financial education in general is now becoming something that's clearly a part of health overall. You know, it was always physical health, and then mental health has become really important, emotional health. And I think that people are starting to see that financial health is just as important for, like, a holistic, overall healthy life. And I think that. So people are starting to see how important it is not just to tell someone about finance, but to teach them.

Yeah, I love that you haven't heard it put that way, but, yeah, it's like well being. It's part of well being. Right. So, regarding the kids, how young is too young? Like, when should parents start teaching kids about money?

I mean, there's no age that's too young, really, but it depends on your kid. I mean, I have one kid who I started talking to. I mean, she was my guinea pig for everything with the book, and she absorbed it and she loved it, and she's really into it. The other one, he had no interest. I'd give him a coin and he'd put it in his mouth. So, you know, it obviously depends on the children, but there are things that you can do at any age. Like, I would have my daughter pay for something. Like, if we were at the coffee place, I'd have her go and pay for the coffee. Just to get comfortable with giving money that you have to actually pay for something, to get something in return, and then make sure she gets the change, and she'd help me count it out afterwards. Little things like that. But there's no age that's too early to start incorporating it. I mean, it's like nutrition. There's not an age where you start talking to your kids about broccoli, you're just always kind of incorporating it. You're always kind of just trying to get them veggies. You're eating your veggies and trying to show them that you're a good role model. It's the exact same kind of thing. We're just trying to teach and show them healthy behaviors and incorporate it from a really young age so that it's never something that is confusing or something that they. They're uncomfortable with.

Yeah. You structured the book along, like, lessons for different age groups. So is there a section that was the most difficult to write? Like, who's the most difficult to teach?

I mean, I would say the young kids, but it's not. I mean, I think that probably older kids, it's different because with the young kids, parents are in control of the lessons. We're setting up games that they want to play. So that's pretty easy age to start incorporating things. When they get older, they can say, no, I don't want to do this. You know, when they get older, I mean, they don't have as many choices to go along with the parents, staff or, you know, and also, when kids get older, anything, if they haven't been exposed to it, it's a little bit harder to get them exposed and interested. But I will say with the older age, they have a real opportunity to learn because it's starting to become relevant to them. They're starting to earn money. They see things on social media. They're starting to want things that their parents don't get. So at the older age, it's just a different way of teaching. You want them to start practicing their own money management. You want them to have some, whether it's physical piggy banks or bank accounts, you want them to have places where they can put their spend money, put their save money, put their charity money, however you want to structure it, but you really want them to be able to practice on their own, make mistakes, make their own decisions. So it's just a different way to teach, I think.

What are some of the flavors of, like, the early mistakes that kids can make? And I asked this because I've been an advisor for 25 years, and sometimes I'll have a 30 year old come in who, when they make a mistake, mom and dad still bail them out. And so they've never been given the chance to screw up and solve the problem on their own, which is obviously, this person is not well functioning adult. Right. So what are some of those early mistakes you actually want to see your kids make.

I always think about this one example because, I mean, I think there's no parent in the world who has not lived this. It's, you know, say that you're at a local carnival or something and you say, okay, I'm going to give you $10 and you can buy whatever you want. Here, it's your $10. But when that's gone, it's gone, and that's all that you're getting. So most young kids are going to go straight for the first thing that they see, and it's going to be some, like, cheaply made Pokemon stuffy that they don't need. And they're like, I want to get this. And I think as a parent and we don't always, and I don't always do this, you know, it's sometimes a lot easier to not let them walk through this decision making. But I think it's so important to let them make their decision and make them aware that they're making a decision, you know? So it's kind of like, okay, so you want to buy this. Your options are, you can buy this now and then you're done with your money. Or you can look around a little bit, see if there's anything more you want to get, and then come back and buy it. Or you don't even have to say, spend that $10. You can keep it and put it towards what you wanted on Amazon. And it's allowing them to realize, to stop, realize they're making a decision, think about what the options are and then just letting them do it. And every time I've done this with my kids, I'm just like, ugh, this thing is going to break in five minutes, or they're not going to play with it. Just more junk in my house. But that's okay because when they get home and it breaks the next day, then you can be like, so, God, that's shocking that it broke. What do you think happened? You know, and talk to them, like, about, you don't have to label it as a mistake, but just being like, yeah, so why do you think that broke? And walk them through that? So maybe they could make a better decision next time, but it's just about letting them go through the process. Make decisions, make mistakes, and, like, just sit on your hands and let them do it.

I started giggling when you're. Because I'm just having this memory of my mom and I walking through the mall shopping for jeans for me, like, in August before school starts and we would go to Sears. And what do you think about these jeans? You sure want to buy these jeans. They're this much money, you have this much budget, and this whole process. My mom is doing exactly that process, and I didn't. Until you did this story, I didn't realize what she was doing.

That's good for your mom. That was a smart move.

Well, she was. Yeah, she was. She was dialed in, like, she talking like 20 years after what? I'm 40 years old, whatever. I'm a financial advisor at that point. She goes, you know, I intentionally raised you to be a financial advisor. I was like, what? She's like, pulling the strings, you know?

She's like, I get credit for this.

Yeah, of course. Why didn't. She does full credit goes to my mom. So tell us real quick the benefits and the pitfalls about a kid's allowance. Like, what are some of the things that parents should be careful of, and what are some of the reasons they should do it?

Yeah. So allowance. There's different ways you can structure allowance. You can give a child just a set money every week, and this is the reason you're giving it to them. So they can practice money management, or you can tie it to chores. They both have pros and cons. You know, if you tie it to chores, your kid can be like, well, I don't need dollar ten this week. I'm not going to do the dishes. And then what do you do? So I think there's more pitfalls with that type of allowance system. You know, obviously it's, you know, encouraging your kids to help around the house, this and that. But for me, I think the goal of an allowance is more for the money management practice. So I think that kind of takes away some of the pitfalls when it comes to allowance. And if you give your kids a consistent allowance, then they have money to play with. They have money to learn from. My kids. Both of them have a share, a save, and a spend jar. If they want to buy something on their own, you know, I say, okay, go to your spend jar. The spend jar is empty. They have to kind of think through. All right, well, I got to use my save jar, but I was thinking about this, and we put pictures on their jars so they know what they're saving up for. We have a big picture of a shark on the share jar because my son wants to save sharks, so. But I think parents, it's a shift in the mindset around allowance. And I believe allowance should more be about just giving them the opportunity to practice and learn on their own and make it relevant, then they're interested in it because it's theirs.

So is there a point, and I'm curious because I might have done this wrong myself, is there a point where you say, okay, no more allowance, now you've got to go earn your own money? And how do you navigate that?

It's a good question. I'm not there yet with my kids. I mean, I think once they. My ten year old, I think she's getting close. I think there's a transition time when they. Depends on the kid. But I could see my daughter next summer walking dogs and getting some extra money and stuff like that. So you can kind of do a transition where you're still giving them money, but they're earning more money, and then slowly transition to when they legally can actually get a job, and then definitely no problem or allowance.

So my son, he plays guitar and he sings. And so this is when he was, like, eight years old, he'd go on to the corner and he would just play guitar and sing songs, and people would put money in his little thing. And so by the time he was ten, I was like, all right, dude, someone dropped $40 to listen to you for half an hour, so I am not giving you any more money. You just go and bust. You have this job. You go do this now. And so he lost his allowance. He was so mad. He was so angry.

Oh, that's amazing. Okay. For a talented child like that. Yeah, they should be supporting you.

We're waiting for that to happen. That's coming out. That's coming soon. He's actually at UCLA now, trying to actually pursue that, which maybe it works. It's still a rough. That's a rough road, but we'll see.

Oh, wow. But that's amazing that he's trying it.

So there's an enormous amount of, like, financial noise out there. So I ask everyone to simplify something for us. So if you're chatting with parents of teenagers and getting the feeling that no one has even begun to teach their kids about money, what's one thing that they should do today? Like, start to get it started?

Teach them about saving. I think that's the most important thing, I think. Teach them every time you get, whether it's allowance or a part time job, put away, I don't care how much you can put away a dollar, you can put away 10%, but put something in savings and all that is right now they're not going to be able to save for college, a car or something like that. Maybe they will, but probably not. It's just creating that habit, because what you want is once they start earning money for that, just to be an automatic habit. Oh, I put something away for savings.

Right. That's great. And then there's. Because there's all kinds of really bad noise out there. What's one thing that you might warn them about something they probably should avoid?

I think probably just having the conversation around social media, and I think that there's a lot of really good, relevant, easily digestible information out there on social media. But like you said, there's just a lot of noise out there. And there are so many financial experts on social media who are in no way financial experts. And I think that's hard for kids. They see it on there and they're like, well, this person said this, they know. They said they're a financial expert, they're influencer. So I think you just have to be smart about where you get your information.

Yeah. And maybe develop good filters or a good resource that will filter for you. Right. So important.

Yeah, absolutely.

So just before we wrap up, I like to go back to personal a little bit. So the first sort of personal thing I want to ask, and these aren't zingers. Some people think they're zingers. What was the last thing you changed your mind about?

Last thing I changed my mind about my tennis game. I changed my mind about my tennis game. Just actually, this morning, I went from worrying that I was hitting it too hard down the line at somebody to realizing we're adults and this is what they signed up for. Honestly, I really thought that this morning.

Playing, you're a competitive person, you're like. And you feel a little guilt about your competitiveness. Huh?

I always grew up kind of thinking competitiveness is bad. You know, I grew up in a very nice house. I'm a people pleaser as much as they come, and I'm really working hard on not being.

Yeah, be competitive. Rule, dominate. Come on, you can do this.

Don't worry.

Anyway, spoken like a dude. I'll unlock this off now. So, second question. If you could get the truth about any single question about your life, what question would you ask? I'm not going to be able to answer it, but what question would you ask?

The truth about anything about my life?

Yeah.

Am I giving my kids the right advice?

Jeff? Wow. That is coming from you specifically. You wrote the book on this, and that's very humble. I don't know. Seriously, I think that's. I really appreciate that. Answer. I know this stuff, but I don't. No one really knows anything. So.

And that's just about everything, you know, I mean, just in general, just, am I telling you the right thing to do? You know, am I helping you navigate things in the right way, financial or anything? Am I giving you the right advice?

Yeah. Well, you're doing the best you can, I'm assuming. So I'm guessing it's the right advice. One last thing, and that's I promise to loop back to this. What is the book you're working on? You said it was a different. So tell us what it is. What are you working on right now?

So I'm working on in its early stages, but I want to, I'm writing a book and I have all the content. I'm just organizing of kind of how do you get started with finance? So this is for whether you're graduated high school and starting to work or you're in college and you're thinking about working or you're an adult and you're just getting started with finance, but it's just, how do you get started with all of this? And it's everything from thinking about your job and income and, like, what are the paperwork that you have to fill out on the first day, and why is this important? And just everything from managing your career to, like, getting started with retirement, thinking about buying a house, it's just how to get on track when you haven't done anything in terms of finance. So I just think that it's. Cause again, it's so simple. And I just don't think that adults who haven't been exposed to it understand how simple it is. So it's everything that you and I are talking about. Like, you can do this on your own, and here's how.

I just love it. So next, I know that's early stages, but when it's out, I want to, we want to talk about that book, too. So, Liz, I want to say thank you so much for coming on. We'll make sure everything is in the show notes. And I've just had a lovely conversation. I appreciate your time.

This was so much fun. Thanks so much for having me on. This is great.

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