Episode Title:
Episode Audio Link: https://podcast.ablackexec.com/episode/navigating-hostility-with-grace-lessons-from-ta-nehisi-coates-interview-experience
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In this episode of 'Need to Know,' Dr. Nsenga Burton discusses the importance of business etiquette and responses to microaggressions in the workplace. Using an interview with Ta-Nehisi Coates as a case study, Dr. Burton highlights how to handle hostile situations thoughtfully and respectfully, promoting a healthy and effective work environment. Join us for insights on intersectionality, identity, and maintaining professionalism amidst adversity.
00:00 Introduction to Need to Know with Dr. Nsenga Burton
00:16 Business Etiquette and Ta-Nehisi Coates Interview
01:29 Cultural Etiquette and Respect
02:28 Coates' Response and Workplace Dynamics
03:51 Handling Hostility in the Workplace
06:07 Maintaining Professionalism and Respect
09:49 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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A Black Executive Perspective now presents Need to Know
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:with the award winning hyphenated Dr.
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:Nsenga Burton.
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:Dr.
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:Burton.
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:What do we need to know?
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:Dr. Nsenga Burton: Good afternoon
and welcome to need to know with Dr.
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:Nsenga Burton.
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:I am Dr.
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:Nsenga Burton and today I am talking
to you about Etiquette but business
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:etiquette and When I burning down the
house, your own house is not a good idea.
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:So previously we talked about an interview
between, uh, Ta-Nehisi Coates, who's
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:a brilliant, uh, person, philosopher.
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:I call him a philosopher, but he's
a brilliant writer, journalist,
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:uh, thinker, critical thinker.
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:And he's written a book called the message
and he's been making the rounds and
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:doing lots of interviews about the book.
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:Um, one of which was an interview on CBS,
uh, CBS this morning, um, in which he was.
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:I would say mistreated by a journalist
who was asking him questions
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:about the book to such an extent.
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:We never learned about
the entirety of the book.
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:What else was in a book?
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:Um, why?
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:You know, we might be
interested in the book or not.
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:Um, and so it really took away from
the way that he was, uh, you know,
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:Interviewed and the way they only focused
on such a, you know, just 1 part of
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:the book, um, really took away from
the audience or the viewers learning
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:more about what was in the book,
uh, that might have spoken to them.
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:Right?
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:So I say that to say, what.
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:We've talked about that side, about
treating people well, when you invite
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:them to your house, you don't treat
people, you don't invite, invite people
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:to your house and then mistreat them.
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:You don't invite people, um,
to your house and bully them.
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:Uh, you don't invite people to
your house and belabor a point.
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:Uh, and I said culturally in the
previous interview that black and
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:brown people don't do that anyway.
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:We don't invite people that
we don't like to our house.
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:We don't want that static.
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:You know, if you're not a family member,
and then it only if your family member
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:is only to a certain extent, you know,
at some point, you're going to get
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:off get left off the invitation list.
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:You know, if you keep
if you keep doing it.
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:So, even culturally,
that's not what we do.
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:We're not going to invite it to the house.
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:If you get to come into the house,
that means somebody really likes you.
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:That means that someone really trust
you and that means that someone
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:thinks a whole lot of you if they
bring you into your home into
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:their home and around their family.
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:So there you go there, but the
point of it is, I want to look
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:at the other side of that.
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:And that was Coates
response, which was amazing.
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:He never lost his cool.
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:He never raised his voice.
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:He never lost his point
and he never conceded.
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:To
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:a perspective or point of view with
which he did not agree, you know, his
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:position is, and this is about the
Middle East, and you can read the book
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:and you can discuss it or whatever,
but he doesn't agree with any entity
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:having an apartheid state period.
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:Doesn't matter if it's Palestine, doesn't
matter if it's Israel, doesn't matter
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:if it's the United States, you know, and
he says in this interview that he was
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:raised by parents who grew up in Jim Crow.
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:So he's not, he's against
any type of apartheid.
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:That exists anywhere in the world.
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:And so when he sees it, he has to not only
document it, but speak out against it.
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:All right.
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:And, um, you know, whether or not
you agree with that point, the point
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:is, is that even though, uh, the
interviewer, the journalist was really
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:stuck on whether on Israel's right to.
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:Exists because that was the
question he wanted him to answer.
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:Um, and, you know,
Ta-Nehisi he's very smart.
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:So he's like, well, you know, it's a
complicated question because you got
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:to think about these answers, right?
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:You got to think about these perspectives.
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:The point I wanted to raise
was how he responded to that.
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:And this is something that happens to,
um, black and brown people, I would
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:say, in the workplace constantly.
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:Um, but it's this idea that you have
to agree with me about a number of
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:things and I'm not trying to, um,
pretend like, you know, the, uh.
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:I mean, like, thousands of
years long attacks on Jews.
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:I mean, I was like, well,
you can't say decades.
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:You can't say hundreds of years,
centuries long attack on Jews equates
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:to anything that I'm about to say.
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:So, it's not the same thing.
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:I understand that.
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:But what I am saying is that.
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:Even when you have unpopular opinions
about things in the workplace, you
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:have to know how to present them, but
you also have to know how to sometimes
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:respond to people who might be hostile
towards you because those opinions
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:are unpopular and they're rooted
in your identity as a black person.
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:So what I want us to think about is
how this absolutely can happen in
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:the workplace in terms of being met
with hostility when your views Don't
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:align necessarily with those who
are empowered in your organization
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:based on your personal identity
and the experiences of your people.
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:Right?
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:If you're a black person, whose
parents were raised in Jim Crow
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:and whose parents parents may have
been raised in slavery or not.
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:You know, if you're someone who's
from the Caribbean, whose family
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:was part of a servant class.
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:Right and what's made to do certain things
or experience slavery because we know that
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:was all in the Caribbean and South America
and all the places you just might have
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:a different perspective on these issues.
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:But all of that feeds into who we
are, and then when we come into the
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:workplace, and particularly when
you're working in spaces, my area
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:of expertise is intersectionality,
race, class, gender and sexuality.
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:So I'm always doing what
I call the heavy lifting.
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:Always doing the heavy lifting.
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:Um, and so, you know,
other people do fun stuff.
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:I don't necessarily get
to do the fun stuff.
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:So I'm always having to defend my
position, defend, you know, that
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:even, you know, racism exists.
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:So, or sexism exists, or there's an
anti trans movement and it's violent
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:and we need to do something about it.
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:I always have to defend
that kind of stuff.
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:But I think what we can learn from
this interview and for with people
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:who've had long careers, like tiny,
easy coats, or I would argue mine.
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:And doing this work is the ability
to not burn down the house while
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:you are defending yourself, right?
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:The, the ability to, um, respond to,
I would say, a very at best a very
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:energetic inquiry into a part of a piece
of content that you did not agree with.
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:Um, but the ability to respond
to, um, these kinds of.
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:Which can often be read as.
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:Micro aggressions, or I just call them
aggression aggressions that you receive
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:in the workplace from people whose
opinions don't align with yours because
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:they may not have the same experience.
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:Most of the time.
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:They're just not exposed to
what you have been exposed to.
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:They don't read a lot about what we've
experienced in the school systems.
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:Um, you know, whether you're talking
about secondary schools, or you're
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:talking about college or master's
programs, like, you really have to take
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:a specific class to learn about these
things that people are so bothered by.
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:But, you know, there are lots of reasons
why that happens, but you can't let people
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:stop you from doing what you have been
tasked to do and you can't let people
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:get you to a place where you were your.
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:Um, lifestyle is now in jeopardy, right?
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:Where you now can't pay your bills
where you now can't sell your books.
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:They won't carry your book,
you know, all those things.
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:Um, and it's not fair.
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:Let me just say that 110 percent
because we have to put up with so
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:much hostility in the workplace.
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:Um, even when we create our own work,
you know, whether it's books, articles,
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:um, things of that nature, um, you know,
People think that we are always fair game.
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:What we write is always fair game
and they are quite comfortable with
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:throwing us into categories, typically
stereotypical categories that have
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:no value for us, but have lots of
value for them and continuously
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:disenfranchising us in a myriad of ways.
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:So, I say that to say, you
can look at this interview
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:because it's making the rounds.
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:I'm sure you've seen it.
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:And if you haven't, you will
see it of Mr Coates response.
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:Right?
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:He knows the book, the work.
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:He wrote it.
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:He understands.
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:This is an unpopular and he never gave
his opinion during the time period.
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:He wasn't really allowed to really delve
into it, but he did give an opinion
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:about his, his views on apartheid.
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:Um, but.
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:You know, the whole time he was
respectful, you know, he was giving
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:the respect that he should have
been getting from the journalist.
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:Um, he was giving the, um, thoughtfulness
he should have been given, given
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:or granted from the journalist.
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:And, you know, that's what should
be happening in the workplace.
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:You know, you should be respectful and
thoughtful, even when you disagree.
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:And when that goes away, and I've actually
learned this in a number of workspaces.
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:It damages the workplace.
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:It makes it hard to continue
to work in the workplace.
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:And unless you make a very concerted
effort to fix things, you know,
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:typically you can't rebound from it.
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:And it makes, you know, the house no
longer a happy home to quote the greatest
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:philosopher of all times Luther Vandross.
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:So,
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:I just wanted to say that, um, on
the flip side of treating people.
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:Well, when you invite them
into your home, your workplace.
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:Um, you know, when you invite
people there, you should treat them.
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:Well, but conversely, if you are not
treated well, which is something that
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:we are often we being people of color,
historically disenfranchised populations.
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:I'm a black person.
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:I'm also a woman.
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:Um, you know, when
you're not treated well.
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:Being able to respond in a way that
is thoughtful and reflective and that
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:allows you to maintain your lifestyle
and maintain your space in the workplace.
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:If you so choose to do so,
you know, but, you know.
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:Without being a conspiracy sister, you
know, some folks are always waiting for
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:you to blow up into to ruin your life,
uh, based on something they said to you.
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:Um, and so there is a skill that is being
able to withstand that type of aggression
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:that comes to it, whether it's micro.
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:macro or aggressive, aggressive,
or passive aggressiveness that
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:comes through in the workplace.
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:There is a skill set to
being able to survive that.
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:And we have it.
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:So lean on it and don't let people
disenfranchise you, um, in a different
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:way because they disagree with
you or not aligned with which you,
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:uh, uh, the conclusions you ever
have come to based on, uh, their
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:unwillingness, um, to understand
or to think about your perspective.
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:So.
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:I wish you a fantastic day and please
tune in next week to another episode of
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:a Black Executive Perspective podcast.
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:A Black Executive Perspective.