Artwork for podcast TonyTidbit: A Black Executive Perspective
Navigating Hostility with Grace: Lessons from Ta-Nehisi Coates’ Interview Experience
Episode 18331st October 2024 • TonyTidbit: A Black Executive Perspective • TonyTidbit ™
00:00:00 00:11:37

Share Episode

Shownotes

Episode Title:

Episode Audio Link: https://podcast.ablackexec.com/episode/navigating-hostility-with-grace-lessons-from-ta-nehisi-coates-interview-experience

Episode Video Link:

In this episode of 'Need to Know,' Dr. Nsenga Burton discusses the importance of business etiquette and responses to microaggressions in the workplace. Using an interview with Ta-Nehisi Coates as a case study, Dr. Burton highlights how to handle hostile situations thoughtfully and respectfully, promoting a healthy and effective work environment. Join us for insights on intersectionality, identity, and maintaining professionalism amidst adversity.


▶︎ In This Episode

00:00 Introduction to Need to Know with Dr. Nsenga Burton

00:16 Business Etiquette and Ta-Nehisi Coates Interview

01:29 Cultural Etiquette and Respect

02:28 Coates' Response and Workplace Dynamics

03:51 Handling Hostility in the Workplace

06:07 Maintaining Professionalism and Respect

09:49 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

🔗 Resources

Links and resources mentioned in this episode:

🔔 Listen and Subscribe

Listen to this episode and subscribe for future updates

subscribe to A Black Executive Perspective podcast on

if you like what we're doing and would like to support us, here's some ways you can help us continue the uncomfortable conversations that drive change

  1. subscribe to our newsletter
  2. give us up to a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts
  3. share an episode with a friend, family member or colleague


🗣️ Follow @ablackexec

follow us across social media @aBlackExec


⭐️ Follow @TonyTidbit

follow Tony across social media @TonyTidbit


This episode was produced by TonyTidbit ™ . Copyright © 2024 A BLACK EXECUTIVE PERSPECTIVE LLC. All rights reserved. No part of this podcast may be reproduced without prior written permission. For permissions, email podcast@ablackexec.com .

Transcripts

BEP Narrator:

A Black Executive Perspective now presents Need to Know

2

:

with the award winning hyphenated Dr.

3

:

Nsenga Burton.

4

:

Dr.

5

:

Burton.

6

:

What do we need to know?

7

:

Dr. Nsenga Burton: Good afternoon

and welcome to need to know with Dr.

8

:

Nsenga Burton.

9

:

I am Dr.

10

:

Nsenga Burton and today I am talking

to you about Etiquette but business

11

:

etiquette and When I burning down the

house, your own house is not a good idea.

12

:

So previously we talked about an interview

between, uh, Ta-Nehisi Coates, who's

13

:

a brilliant, uh, person, philosopher.

14

:

I call him a philosopher, but he's

a brilliant writer, journalist,

15

:

uh, thinker, critical thinker.

16

:

And he's written a book called the message

and he's been making the rounds and

17

:

doing lots of interviews about the book.

18

:

Um, one of which was an interview on CBS,

uh, CBS this morning, um, in which he was.

19

:

I would say mistreated by a journalist

who was asking him questions

20

:

about the book to such an extent.

21

:

We never learned about

the entirety of the book.

22

:

What else was in a book?

23

:

Um, why?

24

:

You know, we might be

interested in the book or not.

25

:

Um, and so it really took away from

the way that he was, uh, you know,

26

:

Interviewed and the way they only focused

on such a, you know, just 1 part of

27

:

the book, um, really took away from

the audience or the viewers learning

28

:

more about what was in the book,

uh, that might have spoken to them.

29

:

Right?

30

:

So I say that to say, what.

31

:

We've talked about that side, about

treating people well, when you invite

32

:

them to your house, you don't treat

people, you don't invite, invite people

33

:

to your house and then mistreat them.

34

:

You don't invite people, um,

to your house and bully them.

35

:

Uh, you don't invite people to

your house and belabor a point.

36

:

Uh, and I said culturally in the

previous interview that black and

37

:

brown people don't do that anyway.

38

:

We don't invite people that

we don't like to our house.

39

:

We don't want that static.

40

:

You know, if you're not a family member,

and then it only if your family member

41

:

is only to a certain extent, you know,

at some point, you're going to get

42

:

off get left off the invitation list.

43

:

You know, if you keep

if you keep doing it.

44

:

So, even culturally,

that's not what we do.

45

:

We're not going to invite it to the house.

46

:

If you get to come into the house,

that means somebody really likes you.

47

:

That means that someone really trust

you and that means that someone

48

:

thinks a whole lot of you if they

bring you into your home into

49

:

their home and around their family.

50

:

So there you go there, but the

point of it is, I want to look

51

:

at the other side of that.

52

:

And that was Coates

response, which was amazing.

53

:

He never lost his cool.

54

:

He never raised his voice.

55

:

He never lost his point

and he never conceded.

56

:

To

57

:

a perspective or point of view with

which he did not agree, you know, his

58

:

position is, and this is about the

Middle East, and you can read the book

59

:

and you can discuss it or whatever,

but he doesn't agree with any entity

60

:

having an apartheid state period.

61

:

Doesn't matter if it's Palestine, doesn't

matter if it's Israel, doesn't matter

62

:

if it's the United States, you know, and

he says in this interview that he was

63

:

raised by parents who grew up in Jim Crow.

64

:

So he's not, he's against

any type of apartheid.

65

:

That exists anywhere in the world.

66

:

And so when he sees it, he has to not only

document it, but speak out against it.

67

:

All right.

68

:

And, um, you know, whether or not

you agree with that point, the point

69

:

is, is that even though, uh, the

interviewer, the journalist was really

70

:

stuck on whether on Israel's right to.

71

:

Exists because that was the

question he wanted him to answer.

72

:

Um, and, you know,

Ta-Nehisi he's very smart.

73

:

So he's like, well, you know, it's a

complicated question because you got

74

:

to think about these answers, right?

75

:

You got to think about these perspectives.

76

:

The point I wanted to raise

was how he responded to that.

77

:

And this is something that happens to,

um, black and brown people, I would

78

:

say, in the workplace constantly.

79

:

Um, but it's this idea that you have

to agree with me about a number of

80

:

things and I'm not trying to, um,

pretend like, you know, the, uh.

81

:

I mean, like, thousands of

years long attacks on Jews.

82

:

I mean, I was like, well,

you can't say decades.

83

:

You can't say hundreds of years,

centuries long attack on Jews equates

84

:

to anything that I'm about to say.

85

:

So, it's not the same thing.

86

:

I understand that.

87

:

But what I am saying is that.

88

:

Even when you have unpopular opinions

about things in the workplace, you

89

:

have to know how to present them, but

you also have to know how to sometimes

90

:

respond to people who might be hostile

towards you because those opinions

91

:

are unpopular and they're rooted

in your identity as a black person.

92

:

So what I want us to think about is

how this absolutely can happen in

93

:

the workplace in terms of being met

with hostility when your views Don't

94

:

align necessarily with those who

are empowered in your organization

95

:

based on your personal identity

and the experiences of your people.

96

:

Right?

97

:

If you're a black person, whose

parents were raised in Jim Crow

98

:

and whose parents parents may have

been raised in slavery or not.

99

:

You know, if you're someone who's

from the Caribbean, whose family

100

:

was part of a servant class.

101

:

Right and what's made to do certain things

or experience slavery because we know that

102

:

was all in the Caribbean and South America

and all the places you just might have

103

:

a different perspective on these issues.

104

:

But all of that feeds into who we

are, and then when we come into the

105

:

workplace, and particularly when

you're working in spaces, my area

106

:

of expertise is intersectionality,

race, class, gender and sexuality.

107

:

So I'm always doing what

I call the heavy lifting.

108

:

Always doing the heavy lifting.

109

:

Um, and so, you know,

other people do fun stuff.

110

:

I don't necessarily get

to do the fun stuff.

111

:

So I'm always having to defend my

position, defend, you know, that

112

:

even, you know, racism exists.

113

:

So, or sexism exists, or there's an

anti trans movement and it's violent

114

:

and we need to do something about it.

115

:

I always have to defend

that kind of stuff.

116

:

But I think what we can learn from

this interview and for with people

117

:

who've had long careers, like tiny,

easy coats, or I would argue mine.

118

:

And doing this work is the ability

to not burn down the house while

119

:

you are defending yourself, right?

120

:

The, the ability to, um, respond to,

I would say, a very at best a very

121

:

energetic inquiry into a part of a piece

of content that you did not agree with.

122

:

Um, but the ability to respond

to, um, these kinds of.

123

:

Which can often be read as.

124

:

Micro aggressions, or I just call them

aggression aggressions that you receive

125

:

in the workplace from people whose

opinions don't align with yours because

126

:

they may not have the same experience.

127

:

Most of the time.

128

:

They're just not exposed to

what you have been exposed to.

129

:

They don't read a lot about what we've

experienced in the school systems.

130

:

Um, you know, whether you're talking

about secondary schools, or you're

131

:

talking about college or master's

programs, like, you really have to take

132

:

a specific class to learn about these

things that people are so bothered by.

133

:

But, you know, there are lots of reasons

why that happens, but you can't let people

134

:

stop you from doing what you have been

tasked to do and you can't let people

135

:

get you to a place where you were your.

136

:

Um, lifestyle is now in jeopardy, right?

137

:

Where you now can't pay your bills

where you now can't sell your books.

138

:

They won't carry your book,

you know, all those things.

139

:

Um, and it's not fair.

140

:

Let me just say that 110 percent

because we have to put up with so

141

:

much hostility in the workplace.

142

:

Um, even when we create our own work,

you know, whether it's books, articles,

143

:

um, things of that nature, um, you know,

People think that we are always fair game.

144

:

What we write is always fair game

and they are quite comfortable with

145

:

throwing us into categories, typically

stereotypical categories that have

146

:

no value for us, but have lots of

value for them and continuously

147

:

disenfranchising us in a myriad of ways.

148

:

So, I say that to say, you

can look at this interview

149

:

because it's making the rounds.

150

:

I'm sure you've seen it.

151

:

And if you haven't, you will

see it of Mr Coates response.

152

:

Right?

153

:

He knows the book, the work.

154

:

He wrote it.

155

:

He understands.

156

:

This is an unpopular and he never gave

his opinion during the time period.

157

:

He wasn't really allowed to really delve

into it, but he did give an opinion

158

:

about his, his views on apartheid.

159

:

Um, but.

160

:

You know, the whole time he was

respectful, you know, he was giving

161

:

the respect that he should have

been getting from the journalist.

162

:

Um, he was giving the, um, thoughtfulness

he should have been given, given

163

:

or granted from the journalist.

164

:

And, you know, that's what should

be happening in the workplace.

165

:

You know, you should be respectful and

thoughtful, even when you disagree.

166

:

And when that goes away, and I've actually

learned this in a number of workspaces.

167

:

It damages the workplace.

168

:

It makes it hard to continue

to work in the workplace.

169

:

And unless you make a very concerted

effort to fix things, you know,

170

:

typically you can't rebound from it.

171

:

And it makes, you know, the house no

longer a happy home to quote the greatest

172

:

philosopher of all times Luther Vandross.

173

:

So,

174

:

I just wanted to say that, um, on

the flip side of treating people.

175

:

Well, when you invite them

into your home, your workplace.

176

:

Um, you know, when you invite

people there, you should treat them.

177

:

Well, but conversely, if you are not

treated well, which is something that

178

:

we are often we being people of color,

historically disenfranchised populations.

179

:

I'm a black person.

180

:

I'm also a woman.

181

:

Um, you know, when

you're not treated well.

182

:

Being able to respond in a way that

is thoughtful and reflective and that

183

:

allows you to maintain your lifestyle

and maintain your space in the workplace.

184

:

If you so choose to do so,

you know, but, you know.

185

:

Without being a conspiracy sister, you

know, some folks are always waiting for

186

:

you to blow up into to ruin your life,

uh, based on something they said to you.

187

:

Um, and so there is a skill that is being

able to withstand that type of aggression

188

:

that comes to it, whether it's micro.

189

:

macro or aggressive, aggressive,

or passive aggressiveness that

190

:

comes through in the workplace.

191

:

There is a skill set to

being able to survive that.

192

:

And we have it.

193

:

So lean on it and don't let people

disenfranchise you, um, in a different

194

:

way because they disagree with

you or not aligned with which you,

195

:

uh, uh, the conclusions you ever

have come to based on, uh, their

196

:

unwillingness, um, to understand

or to think about your perspective.

197

:

So.

198

:

I wish you a fantastic day and please

tune in next week to another episode of

199

:

a Black Executive Perspective podcast.

200

:

A Black Executive Perspective.

Chapters

Video

More from YouTube