Hey there, listener! Thank you for checking out our older seasons! We're adding this note on the top of the show notes to keep you up-to-date with the show. Connect with Jen Amos and get bonus content when you subscribe to our private podcast show, Inside the Fort by US VetWealth, at http://insidethefort.com/

Last Updated: September 2, 2024

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160: "I did what anybody else would have done. I said, 'Okay, I am going to fix this.'" Transition Support Beyond the Legacy Programs with Mike Wallace - Part 2 of 2

Jen Amos invites her guest co-host, Scott R. Tucker, to interview US VetWealth's favorite military retiree advocate, Mike Wallace from Bluewater Advisors, for a two-part interview. For this final part of the interview, Scott commends Mike for setting his members up for success by teaching them the basics of networking. They also discuss resources on how military retirees can create their own customized career paths for post-military life.

This episode is also available on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Apfk97bplEE

Connect with Mike Wallace and Bluewater Advisors

• Website: https://www.bluewater-advisors.com/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-s-wallace1/
• https://www.linkedin.com/company/bluewateradvisors/
• https://www.facebook.com/Bluewateradvisors/
• https://www.instagram.com/bluewateradvisors/

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Check out our last newsletter for 2023: https://mailchi.mp/5f4af326864a/holdingdownthefort

Do you want to do more than “follow orders,” think outside of the box, and manifest your dreams? Then you’ve come to the right show! The award-winning podcast, Holding Down the Fort by US VetWealth, is returning for Season 7 to highlight motivational stories of personal growth, financial awareness, and autonomy in our military community. The show is hosted by Jen Amos, a Gold Star daughter, Veteran Spouse, and Entrepreneur.

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In the Fall of 2023, Jen Amos was sought after by InDependent to co-host the 8th annual InDependent Wellness Summit™. In August 2022, Jen Amos' work on the podcast was recognized by Disney Institute and she was hand-selected as the only non-Disney employee to moderate the first Military Spouse Employment panel for the Veterans Institute Summit. March 2022, Jenny Lynne has voted the 2022 Naval Station Norfolk Armed Forces Insurance Military Spouse of the Year. November 2020, Jen Amos was awarded “Media Professional of the Year” at The Rosie Network Entrepreneur Awards! The show continued to collect award nominations in the following years. In September 2021, the show made the Final Slate in the 16th Annual People's Choice Podcast Awards for the Government & Organizations category. In November 2021, the show was an Award Finalist for the 5th Annual National Veteran & Military Spouse Entrepreneur Awards. December 2021, the show was a Golden Crane Podcast Awards Nominee. September 2022, the show was a Finalist for the 13th Annual Plutus Awards presented by Capital Group for “Best Military Personal Finance Content.”

Holding Down the Fort has also been featured in multiple media outlets including Military Entrepreneur (M.E.) Magazine, MOAA’s Never Stop Learning Podcast, The Leadership Void Podcast, Lessons Learned for Vets Podcast, Sisters in Service Podcast, Get 2 Vet, Blue Star Families of Dayton & Southwestern Ohio, Legacy Magazine, U.S. Veterans Magazine, The American MilSpouse, VeteranCrowd Network, It's a Military Life, VirtForce, Military Veteran Dad Podcast, and much more.

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Scott R. Tucker 0:05

Okay, we are live again. For for those. We'll give it a second here. Just, you know, it's unfortunate. It's weird. I can see if anybody signs in from YouTube or Facebook, but it doesn't tell me for LinkedIn, but it shows me if they leave comments. Well,

Jen Amos 0:25

yeah, that's a matter. He

Speaker 1 0:26

just popped up on LinkedIn on my back monitor. So I can see it's live right now. So okay, cool. Yeah.

Scott R. Tucker 0:33

Well, all right, then. Well, welcome back. I'm Scott Tucker. And we're doing another take any Tuesdays with Mike Wallace from Bluewater advisors. But doing a little bit something different today. Because we were lucky enough to have my wife Jen Amos Tucker,

Unknown Speaker 0:49

she did a lovely Miss Jin,

Jen Amos 0:51

oh, I'll just remove my last name. So it's not confusing.

Scott R. Tucker 0:57

But I'm, and we're going to do a live interview with Mike for Jen's podcasts holding down the fort as she's just about to launch a brand new season. So if you are catching this live, and watching it right now, what's really helpful is if you hit the like or leave us a comment we can we can interact with you during these conversations or address questions you have in the comments at the end. Or of course, if you know how LinkedIn works, when you're you share the post or just leaving a like or whatever one of those little smiley faces. It helps it helps boost the posts and get the word out. So they're retirees who are just getting on to LinkedIn. This might be their first day on LinkedIn, how great would it be for that person to hear this conversation? So that's the mentality of what we're doing. These four we'll be doing every Tuesday, other than a little bit of travel, that Mike's coming up. We'll do some announcements. There. I don't know if there's anything big announced we want to do announcements we want to do before we start the interview. Mike, you got anything you want to announce coming.

Speaker 1 2:00

We mentioned it last week, Scott. But just for the Bluewater team, right next week takes us out to the Navy's template convention, right, which is where we meet with the tail hook Association and large gatherings out there. And it's a great, it's a great few days, we'll be in route and next Wednesday, events kickoff Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and then people kind of work their way back. You know, towards the end of the weekend, but we'll be in place. Myself and Steve Wieman are going to come it's a little bit different for Bluewater this year, we've had booths in the past, we've tried to give some networking discussions out there. We've done that two years in a row this year is our third year in attendance out there. And we're gonna just be available, we're gonna make the rounds, we're going to talk to leadership, we're going to talk to everybody out there, as many one on one conversations as what we can get in, we just want to be in place for our members and potentially future members, for us to engage, or to be engaged by them and answer any questions that they've got. Right. So that's gonna be the approach that we're taking this year. So they're gonna be long days for us, but we'll be around and we'll get a chance to see everybody. So we hope to see everybody out there.

Scott R. Tucker 3:13

Yeah, very cool. No, we missed those conferences. We used to go to a bunch of those kind of podcasting style conferences, we want to get more involved in the military was so good, you're doing a kind of recon for us.

Jen Amos 3:25

Yeah, you can let us know if it's worth our time.

Scott R. Tucker 3:29

Otherwise, we're gonna do well, of course, it's always worth the time. It's just, you know, people are go to those things for particular reasons. And you know, they might, it's like, well, you're talking about Survivor Benefit Plan. I wasn't expecting anyways, but, but that's why we're doing our workshop this weekend at Saturday in Virginia Beach, right? You're local to Hampton Roads. Jen and I are going to be this is a bit of a test, hey, we're actually looking for people that have noticed a little bit I mean, if you don't know about us, and you just want to talk about learn about the Survivor Benefit Plan decision, that's what we're doing on Saturday, it'll be super useful, you're gonna learn a ton there, if you have known about us. And maybe you've not already a client of ours would still love to have you there. Because we're rolling out a whole bunch of new ways of talking about this and you know, other topics, and you want to see people in person, get some feedback. And we built the whole thing because of what we learned from the military retirees we've talked with, you know, say, I know, I've spoken with over 500 military retiring families over the last 15 years I've been doing this. So I've seen this conversation, whether it's the job or I don't know what I want to do when I grew up, or I only want to put in another good 10 years, Scott, or I don't know what I don't know. This is what we hear so often. So Mike, you know, I know you hear versions of that, you know, I see it from the financial perspective. And the most useful thing that we can do for financial wellness is increasing the sources of our income. So that's what today's interview is going to be about both from what you do to help doing that but also your own story, Mike, I think is what Jeff is gonna get into. So that's my introduction. Hi, Tom, how you doing? We're doing one of the these interviews with you soon. I know. So if we want to we can we can do it live here as well. But yeah, I'm gonna officially transition this over to the holding down the fort podcast. I don't know, Jen, if you want me to pull up a logo or website or something, let me know. But

Jen Amos 5:21

no, you don't have to do any of that. Yeah, for the post production, I'm just going to take the video files separately. And, you know, make my own overlay and stuff like that. But for now, this is, you guys just get to see what I do behind the scenes as typically I do not record these live. So you're going to hear a little bit of my own coaching for Mike here and how to, you know, have a conversation for for holding down the fort. So. So basically, just as a recap, Mike, I sent the notes to you already, you will be talking about how you so so when I shared this with you, you could either speak from your own personal experience, or you know what you're doing for your blue water advisor, members. But I do think it's important to share your personal story in this as well. So we're going to be covering, you know, what you are actively doing to aspire for more than following orders, thinking outside the box, and striving toward or living your ideal post military life. And and we'll talk a little bit about, you know, your relationship with us, but well, so those are the points that I hope to hit today. But I do want to open up with an icebreaker question. So we're going to do that as well. So any questions about that before we officially get started?

Speaker 1 6:34

Gosh, so I just want to say I've done several of these with each of you, Scott, she comes up with the agenda like that. We're just off the cuff here. Right. So I'm already noticing some some differences and similarities here.

Scott R. Tucker 6:48

So you see how we work together? It's like I get the big idea. Yeah, we got to narrow it down. So messy. This is like we did this. And it's really my whiteboard

Speaker 1 6:58

back there too. Yeah, visual animals, right. Go ahead. I'm ready. I'm

Jen Amos 7:06

okay, for sure. All right. Okay, cool. So I'm just gonna jump into it and just say, you know, in the post production, I will do a formal introduction of you so that today, we could just focus on having a conversation, just like what you already do with Scott. So it's just going to be super casual and fun. And it you know, just leave it to me to try to hit the most important points. And you're just here to share your story. So, all right, so let's go ahead and get into it. I'm just pretending I'm starting over. And here we go. All right. Well, welcome back to season seven of holding down the fort by us about wealth. I am incredibly excited today, because I have two incredible people on my show. The first one, of course, is my husband, Scott, slash business partner. And we are actually doing this recording live at the time at the time of this recording. It's live on LinkedIn, and YouTube and all that. And normally, I don't do these live. So you're, for people that are joining us live, you'll get to see kind of what goes on behind the scenes. But the reason why we're having this live today is because normally on Tuesdays, Scott gets together with Mike Wallace here, who they host the show, which is newly named Kenny Tuesdays. And we'll be learning more about Mike here shortly. He's been you know, I feel like he's been part of our network for some time now. But I'll have him share, share that with our audience here. And so without further ado, Mike Wallace, welcome to holding on the forts by us, but Well,

Speaker 1 8:30

yeah, I'm so happy to be here with you guys love these days. Right. And so it's so exciting and happy to get into it.

Jen Amos 8:37

Yeah, I thought I'd ask an icebreaker question. It's kind of a new thing I'm doing for my show. And considering that it's currently summer, I thought I would ask you what is your favorite season? Your favorite and your least favorite?

Speaker 1 8:51

Oh my gosh. So I think it's probably going to have to be where we're at right now. Right summer summers just a great time last year to kind of get out do lots of outside stuff, right? Yeah, we've got good friends we enjoy going to the lake with and just doing all kinds of fun outside activities right? Although the last couple of days I will tell you with the 105 heat index and all that kind of stuff. Probably not my best version of what I think and enjoyable summer outside is you know I kind of you know, let's let's make it 90 Right 87 to 90 with real low humidity right I kind of like that right?

Jen Amos 9:32

Yeah, yeah, you probably do better off in like the desert because there's like barely any humidity.

Speaker 1 9:38

Like that. Yeah. So but no, I love the summer it's great time. Nothing. I don't like other seasons too. Right? They all kind of bring their uniqueness to them right winter, especially Brian here can kind of get bitterly cold right. But you know, that's a good opportunity to travel someplace else warm, right?

Jen Amos 9:53

So yeah, well, that's funny how you you like summer because I hate summer. Only because mainly because of the humidity which attracts mosquitoes and mosquito is just absolutely love me. So, you know, Scott knows we'll have well I have like my citronella candles on in the house and even like the Zapper like the light, zapping thing. And I'll still get like three mosquito bites just like sitting in my living room. It just I don't know, they just find a way to come and suck my blood. It's great. But anyway, even other than that, I do like outdoor stuff. We haven't done paddleboarding this year. But that's definitely one of my favorite things to do. If it was more convenient for us. And so yeah, I just appreciate you taking a minute here to share one of your favorite seasons. But like you said, like every season has its has its quirks. So yeah, well, with that being said, you know, Mike, for people that are learning about you for the first time. You you have known Scott for some time now. And it's really only in the recent months that we really been actively collaborating. So can you open up by just sharing the backstory of how you two met? And Scott, feel free to chime in on this as well. But we'll start with you, Mike.

No, you know, and and not not that I would ever correct you on your own podcast here. Right. But I would argue that we've probably been collaborating for some time here. I think very quickly, and I go back, Scott chi Lee, it's, if you look back at the start of blue water, where we really started noodling hard on this and then formed ourselves as a company back in the fall of 2020, where we press forward and did our first cohort in January of 2021. Right, so we're coming up on three years that we've been doing this, it was right at that first quarter, Scott, that you and I aligned, you've been along for the whole ride. And as the first thing I remember that struck a chord with me about Scott is I understood what he was, was was stepping into and what he was a part of, and, and what he was bringing forward was, as I like to kind of say it was a better understanding of SPP, and really what it was, and, and being a veteran that went through my own career progression or transition process. And I'm not saying that this is the same conversation for every veteran that's out there. But I reflected back on my own experience, when I was introduced to SBP, I was really given, you know, a Scared Straight pitch, hey, this is the most important thing in your life, you've got to, you know, jump in and take advantage of this. And I absolutely remember the person that was rolling out the discussion that they said, and if you don't do this, here's a piece of paper, you have to take this home and get your wife to sign because if you don't do it, she has to say that it's okay not to do it. And then you have to do all this stuff. It was just this big, horrible, you know, a play on fear, really is what it was. And and I so did not appreciate that at all. I mean, there was, there was no attempt to educate me on what it was there was no attempt to educate me on is this really a good fit for you or not? Right, and it just didn't go down? And again, for any listeners out there? I'm not saying that that's everybody's experience. I'm saying that was my experience. Okay, to be fair. So I would love to tell you both that, that I made an informed and educated decision. But that's not at all what happened. I think I made the right decision in the long run. But ultimately, I just said, No, I'm not getting into this. And I stepped back and walked away. But I didn't do that from an informed, educated standpoint. You with me? Yeah. And they just didn't appreciate the whole experience. So when I saw Scott and what he was doing, you know, I was like, really intrigued. And the more I understood about what his approach was, and, and his ability to educate me on Hey, this is what this really is. And, and he's a very fair open minded conversation, this may be a good fit for you if you look like this. But if you don't look like this, and you're not shaped in this box, and there's a number of parameters and attributes gotten, I would you could articulate that much better than I could but but if you're not in this, Hey, there's let me show you a better a better way forward like that you can get far and above and beyond what what this legacy institutionalized program offers. Right? And I just love the approach and so even though he's an army guy, right, I mean, and and being a naval aviator, I go Scott's a little are this on purpose today? One right, you know, I mean, I kind of teased him a little bit on that. I was intrigued. I was absolutely excited. So that's kind of part One and he's really been along for the ride. We've, we had Scott as a part of a couple of our cohorts. In fact, you've done that on a number of occasions where your schedule you could come in and and just make you know an introduction and just let everybody know kind of what it is you're about and everything. And I wished, Scott that that our day long cohort, we had more time built in you've set with us you understand, this is a fire hose. This is Steve Wayman myself and, you know, our other career progression consultants, it is a level best effort for us to get going at 815. And we do not stop until you know, 430 or almost five sometimes. And there's just no more time that we can squeeze fit anything in the day.

Nor nor I think, as I said, Should we distract from your your goal and that day, or whatever it is intentions are they're showing up for because, you know, our solution, quite frankly, is we think we can solve it pretty quickly. It easily at least to give people the confidence. So they don't feel like they're kind of blindsided on this and and then you can go make their decisions, more info, but that's what wrote the book for and have info for.

And I think Jim, you know, as we as Scott and I have grown together and gone down this path, we've looked for those ways, how can I still make members aware of what he's doing, because here's the wonderful thing, and, and I love opportunities like this. Scott and I are in the same space, we cherish the same group, the audience the membership, but but we're absolutely not competitive in the value that we bring to our members. We're synergistic. And I truly believe that in my heart, which is why, you know, I know my members, not 100%, but many of them will benefit from having conversations with Scott. So I do my best to make that available to my members. I want them to be aware that there's a resource out there. It's a force multiplier, right to use a military term, it really is. We're better together than we are apart. Right? And and Scott, you get it not 100% of members come through are seeking this insight, some habit. Some don't want it, but some absolutely do. And I love having you be a resource, because well be it that somebody comes to me and starts diving into this. I'm like, hey, I can share with you my own personal experience. But I'm probably not the expert to explain to you mathematically if this is a good fit for you or not. Let me introduce you to Scott. He's that guy, right. So I just, I just love it. And we've grown together. And I think you're probably right over the last six months, we continue to come closer together and we're aligned. And we're figuring out better ways you guys do a fantastic job with technology and getting the word out. And and I love being a part of that. And I just continue to earn trust and bring value to our members, right? We're customer obsessed, and every member that walks through our door, it's our job to help them navigate to their next success. And that's what we're committed to. Right. So.

Yeah, Mike, that's how I think I saw that first day you brought me and me and the other half of me that's no longer here. I used to weigh a lot more.

I know I know what he's saying. But I didn't know if the audience knew what you were saying. So I'm glad you clarified what you meant.

But, but no, what I noticed being in that room, because because what yeah, what would you have was referring to with the collaboration. It's like, I think what we did in those first few years was we were just learning you are learning. And what I learned from you specifically is you give me the opportunity to come in that room. Again, I've been in this military retirement space by that point was well, still over a decade. We're going on 15 years now. But that was the first time in those in those in that decade or so that I'd seen anybody put together something like what you had done there, Mike, and especially with that amount of senior leaders in the room, but outside of the whether it's the government, you know, taps program, or ruling or roiling or whatever, you know, or some other thing, like this was a private like a year in the corporate environment now like, here's, here's just the hard truth. Yeah, it's, you know, we're buddies, we can trust each other a little bit more. It's a smaller group, that kind of thing. And then, kind of what I saw from sitting in the other side of the table is how much the senior leaders who I've always been talking to him for the last decade, one on one, but as a group to recognize that they had been didn't have enough information about their post military life in what was coming up, whether it's job or SBP or otherwise, and it's not their fault. You It's just, you know, it's been it's been a high tempo environment for the last two decades. We all know why. And yet, we make it sound like, Oh, everybody loves veterans, they're just gonna hire you, and you're gonna get paid a bunch. And then nobody knows what they're worth. Nobody knows what they want to do. And it takes some time to figure it out.

Right, you've seen it. And we've had to develop a little bit of language to describe what it is we're talking about, and, and what you're talking about there. And Jen, you've heard me say this before, it's the ocean of goodwill. There's no less than 40,000 organizations across the United States that claim to be, you know, the answer to what veterans need to hear in transition. Right. And, and, again, being fair, there are some I think that that that have a niche and, and deliver and do some good things. There's a whole lot of them out there that I personally think have no business in this space. That is my mike Wallace's opinion, I won't name names here. But if somebody wanted to get me offline, I'm happy to have those conversations. Because listen, you know, and not the segue into the next topic here, Jim, if that's what you want to talk about, but I go back to my own, my own experience, right, my own transition, and you guys know, I hate that word. We prefer career progression, because I don't want to change anybody into something new, I want to progress you into the great thing that you are and into something, you know, you know, into future successes that are going to build on that. But you know, I think back when I went through back, it was late, late 2014, early 2015. Listen, I did all these legacy institutionalized programs that were out there, I did tap, I did II tap, I did it a few times, I went to rural and I did some of these other courses that are out there. And, and I was appreciative, I went to the fleet and Family Service Centers, and I took, you know, resume writing courses that they offer, and I did all these things. And I was absolutely appreciative. And I can remember being so thankful and grateful. But here's the thing, you guys, I had to take it all at face value. I didn't have a yardstick. I didn't know what good was. Because we don't we don't have anything to compare it to this is what's given to me. So it's just like every one of my seven or eight or nine deployments or whatever I've been on, right, you take your, your your pillow, and your two sheets and your wool blanket and you shut the heck up. And that's what you get when you go on deployment. I just assumed that that was good. And it wasn't until I had actually long story. And we talked a lot about this in our cohorts, when I finally landed at the executive headquarters in South Lake Union in Seattle working for Amazon, and I've been in the company for about six months. And and that's when it hit me like a ton of bricks. I go, whoa. Because I was struggling. I'm like, why is this sight picture not unfolding based on everything that I've been given along the way, and it was just not lining up. And what I suddenly realized is a lot of the information that I had been the recipient of. And I'm just again, I'm not gonna thrust my opinion on anybody. This is just Mike Wallace, his thoughts. It was it was dated, it was stale. It was flat, some of it was was inaccurate, and a whole ton of it was absolutely wrong. And and you and I know, we all know, right? Our past military backgrounds. What's the one thing the single thing that's worse than having no Intel? Come on, say it. It's having bad intel? Oh,

I'm just gonna say too much.

I mean, we mean, you know, if you I can almost live with the expectation that I have no intelligence, right, because I know there's nothing there. And I'm going to form my own opinions. But now I've been the recipient of bad intel. And I'm going to force this to go down based on what I thought was good, but it's bad. And so you have to back all the way out of this mindset, and then just kind of start over. And so when I did this, it was almost like I walked outside and the sun came out and things started to make sense. I go wow empowered myself to look at this differently and to have a different set of expectations and approach. And so at that point in time, you're going to laugh at me, but I did what you would have done or anybody else would have done. I said, Okay, I am going to fix this. And so I took weekends, I took evenings and I wrote a curriculum. And I said, stop teaching this, teach this stop telling people to prep this way, prep this way. Stop doing these things. This is how you do this like and I'm not asking anybody to do anything, I'm just saying Here you go do this. And I learned very quickly the single most, you know, challenging thing then to changing a government sponsored program, like a tab or an E tab or something like this that that is DoD do l Veterans Affair multi hat run is, here's to the dirt. They don't there is no feedback loop. They don't want him nobody to even approach to give them this product. Like you. There's no place to plug into the to the organization to do that. Which is an incredible waste. And so it just became a past an opening opportunity. Like what can you do? I can't, nobody wants it. And there's nobody. Okay, great. So you move on. But what did not change in my life. And coincidentally, in parallel, what didn't change in in my other partners lives? Scott McDonald, Joe Dalton, and all of our career progression Consultants is there are there's an unending stream of individuals who are hungry for a current relevant, credible message. Hey, Mike, did you do this? Hey, Mike, do you know anybody at this company? Hey, Mike, would you take a look at my resume? Hey, Mike, how did you prep for your interview? Hey, when they did this, Hey, Mike, I got this offer letter, but I don't know what it means. You know, what is PTO? And I don't understand these terms. And is that negotiable or not? Hey, Mike, what about this, like, it just never stopped. It never stopped. And when, when we decided, hey, the Amazon course had run its its course right. And we decided that we were going to relocate to the to the East Coast. For a number of reasons. I got back into some consulting and and some contract work back here. It even got worse being here in the local area. Now people are seeking you out in person. Listen, I can't drink that much coffee. I love coffee. I'll drink it non stop. But I cannot drink that much coffee. And and so that was just a strong enough leading indicator for us, Jim, that we said, what is going on here? And so that was pointed out? I had a couple of, of great friends that kind of approached me. And they just said, Hey, look, this is just come on there. What is going on here? Right? We have to address this. And so I go, Hey, very ironically, all right, I've got a, I've got a curriculum right here that we want to give back to the home team, but couldn't find anybody to do this. And so we put it together. We invested three 400 hours of our own time we put this thing together. And then we just launched it word of mouth. We just said, If that's you, and you need help, this is what we're doing.

Yeah, I mean, it sounds it sounds to me that, you know, it sounds like you want it to start Blue Water advisors. Because because it was like your desire to start a business, it was really out of necessity. You know, you you were you were thinking outside of the box, because the box just was not enough. Like people were still asking questions, people were still coming to you. So the fact that you were able to create something outside of the box, and be able to, you know, grow it via word of mouth and who you are, you know, three years later, and, you know, your cohort program is booked for months in advance. I think it speaks volumes to what you're offering. And more importantly, what, what, what our community is hungry for?

Well, I couldn't agree more. And you know, we chuckle about it a little bit. But, you know, I can get, you know, 10 or 12 of you in a room, and we're gonna have a conversation for a day, or I'm going to drink an awful lot of coffee, because I'm gonna have three or four meetings with each one of you guys every single week. And, you know, it's just it just becomes too unwieldy, right. So, as we look back on our own experiences, right, we were passionate about a couple of things. We wanted to keep the group small, because we value relationships, I want to get to know you, I really want to understand you. I want to understand what's important for you. What do you want to preserve in life? What are you passionate about pursuing? And then let's get busy and charting a path to get you headed that direction? We knew the audience that we were going to attract attention from well, we suspected but after certainly six months into it, our analytics pointed clearly who our members are. Although we have an open door we never tell anybody no. But But primarily we're that senior leadership that walks through the door that is looking for this level of insight and we knew that it had to be credible. And what I mean by that is our members that walked through the door, they may not be experienced in business, you know, or finance or any of these other things that they're getting ready to step into. But make no mistake about it, every single individual that walks through our door can smell Bs, and about six seconds, and they will shoot you squarely in the head. If that is you, if you are just pushing this out with no credibility, and rightfully so they're just going to shoot you, or they're going to tune you out and walk out and you've lost them. And so we knew that our message had to be founded in our experiences. In other words, we've earned trust with you, because I was successful wearing the uniform you are to, I've navigated this career progression space, like you're starting to, I've found success. And you know, we're up to six or seven career progression consultants. Now whether or not you found success in private equity or, or a startup someplace, or defense industry or government contracting, we have somebody on the team that's going to speak from the high ground to answer your questions to say, Hey, this is this is how you do this, and why the ocean of goodwill is filled full of people that are going to tell you what you need to do. And when we are the language, here's a list of what you need to do, which is completely different than this is how you do it. And why you with me on that. It's a completely different message. And so we founded our message on that on the credibility, the currency, and the relevancy. And everything we do as we engage our members. Now, I'll tell you, Jim, we've had some exciting recent conversations, and I hope they continue to grow. We built this effort in hopes that we were not going to have to continue to pass costs through to our members, we were hopeful that Navy, right leadership would see the value in this thing, why they haven't, because analytically, I can pour through, we can take any one of our 350 members that have been through or any number of different 100 companies or landing reports that are out there. And they're all going to say, do more of this navy, why aren't Why isn't Navy recognize that I can analytically walk them through to the results? And I'm not sure the answer to that. But

yeah, well, it's like you said earlier, there's no feedback loop. You know, it just

there's not really right, we're building this just kind of word of mouth as we go forward. But, you know, we're excited to continue to do that, and put together these keen insights and preserve this information. And here's the thing, every month, the network gets a little bit bigger. Like just this week, we had three more people land and some really exciting companies that are providing us lameer reports. Very great information for the next person who comes in and says, Hey, I want to do I want to do that? Well, guess what, we now have a network we now have, this is how they did that. Right? It just makes sense. And just hang with me, you guys. You know, our network is this big and growing rapidly at three years. Imagine what it'll be in five years or six years? It can, we've recently had to hire an IT company, because I've got so much data coming out of my ears that I'm getting the I can't manage it all, you know, Lamy reports and keen insights. And you, you know, we, you know, I had a conversation with an individual who was pursuing Northrop Grumman, I won't name his name. And he says, Hey, Mike, what do you think this is the offer that the company sent me? And I said, Well, yeah. And he goes, Hey, before you say anything, Mike says, I know you weren't corporate, you know, Amazon, you know, this may not look that great. And you may not be too impressed. I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I said, Listen, the conversation I want to have with you right now has nothing, nothing to do with what Mike Wallace thinks of this offer. It has every single thing to do with the eight other people over the last 11 months, who have pursued this company in similar roles and have negotiated this offer to this outcome. That's the conversation I want to have with you. And based on the data, if you don't go back and negotiate that offer is my opinion that you're leaving 1000s of dollars, left on pursued. And so that's just my opinion, take it or leave it. But I love having mathematical conversations with our members because there's no motion. This is just the data that we're working hard to put together. So we can give our members the best insight that we can write so they can go on and be successful.

Yeah, and you obviously have a successful track record of your members finding employment. And I'm curious like early on in the program, what is the what is the mindset shift that you try to instill in the senior leaders going from, you know, going from the military to career progressing into something else like because I imagine that that requires a certain kind of conversation that can only come from people like you.

Yeah, well, it's interesting because we actually in the morning, we devote a section part of our curriculum to mindset. And we talked to our audience specifically about, here are some of the stereotypical opinions of the environment that you're approaching. And here's reality. And Jen, it we would have to dedicate an entire podcast to cover all the specifics out there. But for example, some people walk through our door, and they go, I'm going to be God's gift to corporate America and just look at me, why would you not love me and today is, whatever it is, it's August 15. And I expect to be fully employed by September 1. And I'm like, That was a great goal. And I'm on board, and let's go conquer this. And then my first question is, where do you want to go? Yeah, I want to leave the fence yard and I want to kind of go work for Microsoft. All right. Do you know anybody there? No. Have you talked to anybody there? No. Do you want to be employed? By the first of September like to you're giving yourself a whopping two weeks? Yeah. Because I'm just going to call them and say, Look at me, why wouldn't you love me and I want to go. That is a mindset shift, right? Yeah. And, again, mathematical analytics can come to play here, where I can look at an individual and say, I'm on board, I will be your enduring partner. And if that's the stake in the ground, you want to run to I'll run with you. But let me share some analytical insight of the 300 members that have been through bluewaters doors over the last, you know, 30 months, right? The average time to land a job is about four months, right? The national average is five and a half, maybe six months for big transitions, right? But if you come from blue water, and you know that bell curve, some will be in that three month to two and a half month window, some will be in that three month kind of four month. Window. But but those analytics, but if you want to land a job in two weeks, I'm with you. Let's start running. I recommend we start running today. And yesterday. Yeah, exactly. So and then and then you get the Okay, well, wait a minute, analytically speaking, right. Okay, this, this makes sense to me. So we have math behind these conversations, right? So yeah, just making this stuff up. We have numbers and math behind it. And every member that comes through and every member that lands on their landing report, they say this is when I started pursuit of this company, and this is when I received the offer letter. And that delta and time is important, right? So we can build expectations for our members, right. Another one that we hear often is, you know, our members, and I love our members, and I tell our members, every single buddy that attends our cohort, you are worth a gajillion dollars a year, hands down, you move mountains, you move heaven and earth, there's nothing that you individuals in this room can't do. And I believe that in my heart and your worth, you know, a ton of money. I said, but that's not the question that you need answered. And the room gets quiet. And they look at me and they're like, What are you talking about? And I go, Yeah, it's a shortlist of companies that can pay you a gajillion dollars a year, the answer to the question you want is, what is the company you're pursuing? Able to pay you for filling this role responsibility in this geographic area? How are they able to compensate you? That's the question that you want the answer to. And again, we come back to math, we can help with that of everybody that's landed and pursued roles like this. We think this is what they're able to do. And they've proven this helmet, right? And so, you know, it's a mindset shift, right? There will be some individuals say, Hey, I've got kids in high school, there's no way I'm leaving Virginia Beach, and I'm not working for a penny less than 470 $5,000 a year period. Not. And I'm like, okay, and we call that kind of a misaligned strategy, meaning, it's not that I don't think some of our members can can make compensation like that. But the fact of the matter is your chances of doing that your first step in your career progression right here in this area. That's going to be tough. I said, let's get to the whiteboard. Let's script out a strategy. Are you worldwide deployable? That's the first question I'm going to ask you. Are you willing to move to San Francisco? Are you willing to move to New York? Are you willing to move to Seattle? Well, no, Mike, I got kids in high school. I'm staying right here who Okay. Hmm, I don't know that's not quite lined up. Something that's not is not working here. Uh, and so we work them through a lot of those mindset, you know, and they're just a ton of them. But, you know, I look at this, you know, and Steve Wayman and I, he's a good partner. You know, this is like being a flight instructor. You know, back if I could go years back when I was teaching in the 14 and, and you do instructional flights with pilots, and you get to know in other words, I know the mistake he's gonna make before he does it. In other words, here goes he's in, just have to watch it happen. It was very common. If the plane starts to get slow during landing, and they forget to take the wings and moving for you. I know he's not gonna put his wings for it yet. Look at that. It's 200 knots and the wings still on forward, and then you got to go put the wings forward. He's like, Oh, yeah, I was gonna do that. You're gonna follow this guy like a rock. You weren't but and so we get frustrated. But the thing as an instructor, you have to remember is, that was his first time learning that lesson. Might have been my 100th time have seen it the mistake made. But that's that's his first time learning it. And so all the members that come through the Bluewater program, you know, we have so many, you know, insights and so many stories to share with them. But we can't lose sight that everybody that comes through that starts, right, the career progression with us. They're seeing it for the first time. Right. Yeah. And but our ability to articulate the how and the why is getting better because of all the insights we gained from future members that have gone through and navigated to space as well. So let's have exciting venture. We'd love it. And, you know, we've got we're building great, great career progression consultants, Steve Wayman. You know, John Malfitano has come on board now as well, Todd Flannery, Fred Smith, down in Pensacola, as well, Dave Wade, lick up and Richmond. I mean, these are individuals that absolutely love, you know, our message and, and our mission and vision and want to be a part of it, Brian herd look as well. He's up at John Hopkins University Applied Physics Lab. You know, these, these guys are credible. They've been successful on uniform, they've navigated this space, they've been successful on the outside as hiring managers, and now they're all coming back, you know, and bringing these insights. So, yeah, just love it. Yeah,

you know, the one thing I really want to comment on is how you keep in saying that this is a mathematical discussion, you know, and the fact that you collect so much data, for, you know, an analytics for your business is the reason why you can continue to evolve and refine your messaging and everything. And I think that's important to know, especially if anyone does get into business for themselves is recognizing that, you know, your original thought for your business may not be the same, like later on. Yeah. And so it's just great to hear the natural progression and, you know, bring being able to bring on more career progression consultants with you. I know, I want to make sure we wrap up in about 10 minutes here. And I know that Scott has been kind of a muting every now and then. So I just want to check in with you, Scott, because I know that you've been part of the the programs or been sitting in the back, you know, observing this yourself. So I'm curious if you had any thoughts you wanted to share?

No, I mean, what I was just gonna say is what I if, again, seeing what's so unique about what Mike's doing, is bringing it down to the level like, Hey, we got to teach us at level one or two, I know you've been a career, you're a senior leader. And we think we have all these skill sets and experience. And sometimes that'll translate perfectly. And that'd be great if you can figure that out. But also also to give yourself the permission to hate this first time around, go back to basics. Since you're in if you're in the in the network, that is Blue Water advisors, that's that's growing, a lot of that stuff that you they think you have to know to be at the level 10 is already taken care of. Like, you're gonna find your own version of level 10. You don't want to do somebody else's level 10 You do somebody else's level one and two, and then create your own level 10. And that's, that's what Mike's done. I mean, Mike's at a level 10 himself, but the fact that, you know, he's because what I think happens in that room is sure they're saying, Yeah, Mike, hey, give me that job. Or tell me how to do it at a at a price point that I'm worth. But I think in the back of their mind, they're saying, How is it that Mike's hosting this seminar on a Wednesday?

And I was lucky.

It's like you You did the Amazon thing. You did the consultant thing, but eventually you went out and kind of did your own thing. And what we hear often, I'm curious what you think, Mike is, we often hear Scott, I don't want to know what I want to do when I grow up. I don't know what I don't know. But I do know, I can put in a good 10 years. You know, if I really liked what I'm doing, maybe I do another 20 But I'm really thinking, you know, I want to sock away and I want to do as much as I can the next 10 years soccer by the way a bunch of money. Maybe I'll retire Early, maybe I start my own business, who cares. But give myself the runway, as you like to say, I was air defense, not a pilot. But to give yourself the chance and the permission to eventually create your own orders and follow things out. So yeah, that's what I think you're really setting people up for is, you know, get in the right way. So that, you know now, and the best way you learn is when you start teaching, and the fact that you have everybody immediately, given the landing port reports, given feedback, I'm sure they're getting on calls with each other and saying, Ooh, here's the little secret, I wish, you know, I figured out on my own, or Mike taught me that I wasn't expecting. You know, that's, that's what's so valuable by having such a tight network. And again, over 15 years, I haven't seen anything like this. Because usually, even if it's not the government program, it's still kind of just run everybody through and who's the next cohort and this thing where you're truly getting to know people keeping it small. And so I just really, really value that

approach. No, we really do value this. And Jim, what I was going to tell you is we are tempted a lot when we do have conversations with whether it's you know, seen AF air land MSC, some of these other organizations. You know, one of the first questions, they asked us go, Hey, Mike, how many people can you put through in one day? And the question and the conversation quickly goes to, hey, we want to put everybody in the room? And could you do 4050 people at once and just let's just put them through, and let's just get them through this. And I'm like, it could probably this may be the death of me, it could probably be the worst business decision ever. But but we defend against that we say now, like, ideally 10, maybe 11, maybe 12. Yeah,

this is not another this is not another tap, right? It's like you want to

mass production. That's not what this is. And it is tempting, because people want to have that conversation. And we say no, we say no, yeah. And the other thing, you know, we're approached by a lot of people. Hey, Mike, I want to come and help. Hey, Mike, I want to come do this. Who really haven't demonstrated that currency, relevancy credibility, while wearing the uniform, or they didn't navigate the space to some other achievement on the other end. Have you been a hiring manager? Have you done these things out in the real world? No. Well, then what high grinder you're going to speak from talk to me about the credibility, how are you going to come back and tell somebody else to do this, like some GS seven and fleet for a family service center, you're going to tell me how to do a resume, a functionally Formatted Resume, oh, my God, I'm gonna throw up. And and they're going to tell me you know how to do this. And they've never done it themselves, nor have they ever even had to utilize the product to find talent in a hiring manager role. Yet, they're going to tell me this is how you need to do this. There's just no credibility in it. And we were just so passionate, and we, if anything was going to happen in this venture, we weren't going to be credible, we weren't going to be current relevant, we were going to build the network ourselves. Never let go of anybody, people are the most important part of this. And we were going to analytically write hang on to every bit of data that we could, because we knew at some point in time, it was going to become a thing. And Scott remembers the day where I'm probably three months into this venture back in 2021. And I'm like, cow, we started this in January, and now Herim and March. And I've only got like 90 people in the network, or, you know, maybe or, you know, 30 people through and a few people that have joined on the website. Are you kidding me? Like, that's it like it's not growing fast, but we watched it, then you hit a six month point. Then you hit September, and you start fourth quarter, and you're like, wait a minute. All right, people are now starting to find jobs with the message. And there's so many landing reports. And then you start year two, and then you go well, I've got hundreds of people that have been through this. And now I've got data and I can draw on this. Now we're getting ready to end up year three, hate 300 some odd people been through this thing. Cohorts scheduled and filled out through December like this is growing and the data Gen is what I get excited about. Right? Yeah. Not that I don't love building relationships with our members, because I absolutely do. But it's the data that tells the story that allows us to give better insight and advice. I'll be so bold to set than anybody else in the ocean of goodwill. Right? Nobody else is tracking this data like we are. And me for the audience out there. There's organizations out there that do do good things. I mean, but there's a lot that don't.

Absolutely. And you're doing, you're doing your part, you're doing your part. And we're here in Hampton Roads. And I think that's the important thing is you're serving the senior leaders here that need you. And I think what you're doing is incredible. So I just, we're just so grateful to be in collaboration with you. And I feel like part of the reason why I said earlier that it's only been in the recent months that we've been really collaborating is because I just met you in person a couple of weeks ago. And, you know, like forgetting the fact that like, Scott's been going to, you know, the, the cohort programs, and, you know, he's been in touch with you for so long. So it's just great to, you know, at least for me to be more involved, and, you know, to see how our company us that wealth can continue to support you. And I do want to, you know, thank you for, you know, letting us come out to your networking event or your Meetup a couple weeks ago, and being able to feature Scott's book there. Don't forget your war chest. And it turns out that, you know, one of our clients happened to be there in person, we met them for the first time in person. And so it's just great to see the the synergy that we have between us and we hope that you know, hear at us about wealth, we can continue to support your your mission.

Listen, I believe in what you guys do, I believe in the mission, I really do. Scott, I love being synergistically aligned with you. I truly believe our members right are better off for it, you guys are a resource. For our members that are inclined to kind of pursue this information. I can't think of anybody better, you know, to connect them with or to let them know that, hey, you're part of the Bluewater family here, go and get your questions answered. Don't have the experience that I had with this and make an informed decision. Go get informed, get educated and make a decision. Right. And I love how you guys you know, bring that knowledge to our members as well. And you treat them they're your members, our members, they're our members, your members, right? This is, this is the Bluewater family, right? And that's why Jen, I'm so excited to align with you guys. Because there are some people, I mean, I wouldn't push them to a source that I didn't trust, that I didn't understand fully, and I didn't, that I didn't understand your motivations. I can tell everybody who's listening and I believe in in my heart. If it's not a good fit for somebody, you're gonna tell him right up front, it's got that's not a, that's not a good fit. And for all of those medical conditions that individuals may be facing and family members that that may have medical conditions, right? What you offer may not be a good fit, and I have all the trust and confidence in the world, that you would tell them that that's probably not the best option. But for those individuals where it is a good fit, that you're going to have that mathematical conversation, and you're going to sit down and just say, hey, look, you need to think about this, if you want to go on your 10 year kind of playing here, let's sit down and script this out, because there's a better way. Right? I love the team love it.

No, absolutely. I think just the fact that we're talking with specifically the senior leaders have been in a little bit longer, you know, some 20 Year guys, but sometimes a little bit more, you know, upwards of the 3030 plus range, it's a different experience as a smaller group. And so for both of what we do, we got to be brutally honest, both, you know, even if it's not gonna work out for us, I cannot push this stuff on people too small, it's too small of an audience, you guys talk amongst each other, we just want to be useful for the ones that are a good fit and get it. And, and I know that's what you're doing, too. So, you know, we're learning from you. I'm learning from your members, specifically, because that's what I realized. We were trying to be all things to all veterans in the finance space. And it's like, no, no, it's the senior leaders that have a question around one or two particular things, you know, outside of the job thing. And it it ends up causing so much stress and anxiety yet another thing I have to deal with, I'm trying to get this job, then you end up just taking a job just to have it so you get that done. And then you're trying to figure out the life insurance thing. It's like, no mic and I've been trying to or when that when I try it. We are making this easier on you. At least kind of on that step one and two. Coming out of the military, you know, solve some things easier for us. You just move on with your life and figure things out. So love good love that we're on the same page there man.

Love aligning with you guys. Love these things. Jen. You're a great host, by the way. Sorry. Oh, you should have Oh, honestly, word started cutting me off more of an interview.

Yeah, my goal. My goal as a host is to talk very minimally. So the fact that you covered all the points without me having to ask them it just you just made my job easier. So thank you.

I mean And I know Scott's this way, right? We really do get passionate about it, right? Because because we've lived another path. But it doesn't have to be that way. Absolutely. And and we're trying to trying to build a better, more effective transition experience, right career progression experience for our members. And, and I believe I believe that it doesn't have to be that way it can be better, can always be better.

And I think it can be on that a little bit, you know, what I'm passionate about, is helping get the word out a little bit more. I mean, what happens every day is a new retiree gets on LinkedIn for the first time. And it's like, oh, geez, you know, here's a space I'm not comfortable here. And it's like, not only do you need to show up and be active on LinkedIn to network, I mean, that's one way to do it. You don't have to do it. That way. You can get on the phone and do the coffee thing. But it is a tool to make it easier. But sometimes an even better tool is getting on interviews and stuff. And some of this time stuff takes practice. So you know, my passion as soon as I sat there with Mike as like, how long have I been talking about, Dude, we got to do videos, I gotta get you out there, I gotta get you on our portal, like your stuff is so valuable. Because No, I appreciate that you're introducing us to your members. And obviously, we want to be as helpful as possible without distracting from the goal of getting a meaningful job. But what I've been doing, I mean, I've been introducing my clients and people I'm talking to as Okay, you got to talk to Mike Wallace. At the same time, I know you're, you're gonna get overwhelmed at some point. Because not everybody can come to Hampton Roads, you can't go to every city, you've been to San Diego, you've been to DC but down to Florida, and I'm sure you're going to go into other places. But at some point, we got to get Mike Wallace and then other versions of you, you know, on video recording or in group calls online. So that's, that's where we'd like to.

Got it. If I could just inject here like you, I think back three years ago, you were you were just you know, the technology and the side of this and you were building this. And I was absolutely adamant about I'm only going to do these cohorts in person, we're not going to do anything online. And now look where we are today. You've got me on a podcast live here. And you're doing a brick and mortar event this Saturday. I mean, our worlds have just crossed, right. I mean, I love it right?

Just swaps.

Somewhere, you know that the best of all worlds is in the middle there. And I think you and I coming together and going down this path. It's it's walking us down there. And before I forget, I saw Tom wells pop in there. Tom's a staunch supporter of blue water and he's doing fabulously in his own career progression. He's gonna land bag and Tom we're, we're pulling for you. It's gonna happen, man. So Steve,

recently retired. Congrats, congratulations. Yeah,

he just stepped out. And he's he's out out. Right. So that's exciting.

Also a podcaster. I mean, you know that Tom start, we can't wait to interview Tom. His story is great, met him through blue water, you know, sitting in the room that might have been the first cohort.

It might have been what was early on Tom was an early joiner and after the JAG has his podcast for the audience and, and Tom has been a great you know, pipe for us. We've had several Jags come in and around blue water and find their next success through that. So the message is applicable. You know, it's it's agnostic to your background, these are things that you need to do, regardless of where you're coming from. I don't care if you drive ships fly airplanes, if you're a Jag. You know, we've had some medical community individuals come through, we had the Senior Medical Officer at a scene app and San Diego went through and he goes, this is exactly what the community needs. This is how to get your next success. We just recently had a retired 1518 year law enforcement Lieutenant from the City of Norfolk come through. he's about ready to land right now. He's like, hey, the city has nothing like this. We're all over it, right? Because the message and the process works and the network. If we plug you into it, it's going to serve you. And then you're going to become a part of the network to make it that much bigger and stronger. So we're excited to keep building keep building.

Oh, Congrats, man. We're real proud of you. And just really excited to see where this is going. I

love working with you guys. Thanks, Jen. Appreciate it.

Yeah, well, no, thank you. You did you did all the work here. I was just a fly on the wall. And every now and then I asked some questions, but honestly, your passion really shine through in this conversation today. So I just want to thank you so much for your time and for the work that you do. And, you know, your your stamp of approval for our business means a lot to us. So I just, you know, you're talking about the importance of credibility and you know, what we do offering private solutions. We need that credibility, you know, because we are offering something that is not a government option, and so, it means a lot You collaborate with you and like I said, to get your stamp of approval. So thank you so much for that. And, you know, thank you for joining us here on on holding on the fort. Awesome.

Love it. Great time. The only thing I can think better is doing lunch with you guys over at Mission barbecue. That was

that was a ton of fun. Thank you for lunch. Right? All right, for those who don't like

today, actually, for those who come Saturday, we may well go to Michigan barbecue for anybody who wants to stick around afterwards and grab some lunch holy

cow town center right up in the gather space up there and starts at what time? Is it? 10 10:10am

you know, well, we'll kind of open the doors, we'll probably get started. You know, 1015 1030. Again, this is more informal. It'd be super valuable, but also very informal type of thing. So come hang out in in Virginia Beach Saturday morning for a little bit. And then we'll get you on your way for the rest of the day but and hand out some books. I got tons of books back here to hand out hardcopy so excited about that.

All right. Thank you guys. Loved it.

Yeah. Well, thanks, Mike. Appreciate your time. I mean, I'm good to go. I don't have anything else to ask. So Scott, if you want to close this out.

All right. I will hit and broadcasts. All right. Thanks, everybody, for joining us. And we will see I'm going to be live and a little bit five. I'm doing another version of my preview presentation for Saturday, just kind of a test run at it. So we will see that right