Imagine stepping onto a stage, a solitary spotlight illuminating your face as you prepare to bare your soul to a room full of strangers. Now imagine all of those strangers silently encouraging you, laughing and crying along with you, and cheering you on. This is the essence of The Moth, an organization that has captivated audiences worldwide with its celebration of raw, unscripted storytelling. Our guest today,

Kate Tellers

, reminds us of the transformative power of sharing our truths.In this episode, Kate leaves us with five Uplifting lessons:

1. Embrace vulnerability: It's the gateway to forging deeper connections and understanding ourselves and others.

2. Listen with intention: True listening is an act of generosity that creates spaces where people feel heard and valued.

3. Balance productivity and presence: Living fully means savoring the world around us, not just checking boxes.

4. Nurture your creative outlets: Exploration and expression in various forms can replenish and inspire us in unexpected ways.

5. Share your truth: The stories that have changed us hold the power to change others, reminding us that we're never alone.

Kate Tellers is a storyteller, Senior Director and Director of MothWorks at The Moth, host of their live events, podcast, and Peabody Award-winning Moth Radio Hour and co-author of their fourth book "How to Tell a Story” which debuted on the New York Times bestseller list. Her writing has appeared on McSweeneys and The New Yorker.

Kate was nominated by the fabulous storyteller, Susie Jaramillo from episode episode 2 of The Uplifters!

After you listen, grab your ticket 🎟️ for Uplifters Live on May 17, where you’ll meet the inspiring Uplifters Ambassadors you’ve heard on our podcast, including Susie and Kate! Kate will host an interactive workshop on storytelling for real life and Susie will give a talk on the importance of risk-taking! Learn about this one-day in-person gathering for creative growth and collaboration HERE.

Welcome to the Uplifters podcast. I'm Maranzza Savas and today I am joined by Kate Tellers from The Moth. Every time I say The Moth to someone, there's this amazing response where people just get sort of giddy and exclamatory and their response, and I don't know if this happens to you all the time, Kate, but for people who know The Moth, there was this deep fandom and this, I think, magical sense of,

connection and humanity that people found in The Moth that they'd never seen anywhere else. And I feel that way certainly, and I'm just so honored and excited to be here with you today.

Oh, well, thank you very much for having me. Yeah, I feel like if you know, you know, and those people go absolutely bananas when they hear about and I try to not introduce Moth when I'm introducing myself because I feel like then I'm not a person. Like I'm you know what I mean? Like I'm an association with an organization, which is lovely. I love the association and I love the organization, but I also sometimes just want to have a human conversation. And then people.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

like flip out or they're like, oh, storytelling for children, like fables, is that what it is? You know, and then you have to like slowly indoctrinate them.

how do you describe what the moth is?

It's really dependent on the context because we're so many things, but the simplest way, and this is like my, you'll hear how canned I am sometimes when I say it, we're a not -for -profit organization dedicated to the craft of first -person storytelling. We help people tell true stories on stage, live, without notes. Those stories are recorded and sometimes appear on our podcast or radio program. We also have training programs and have released four books.

How long have you been a part of the moth and its mission?

Five books now, but yeah.

I have been on staff for 15 years and I started like many of us as a volunteer. I was the one, the person on the other side, like banging on the door being like, I will do anything. So I was a volunteer and then I was the first podcast intern. I edited the first episodes of the podcast in GarageBand. Aransas Savas (02:28.606)

Oh my gosh.

You are so in the fabric and the DNA of this organization and vice versa. Now I am.

Yeah, I mean, it's a very, there's such a shift when we went from live events to recording them just because of who we had access to. And I was able to be at the organization for the pre and the post. And it was, there was such a surge in like 2008, 2009. I mean, there always is, we're constantly, thank goodness, not gone all the way. You know, we've been developing new things, but.

Mm -hmm.

In that time, when we were like five full -time people in a filthy office doing everybody did every job, you know, like the stuff that, like I always say, I printed people's, the freelancers 1099s, because we lived like we had freelancers and interns and part -timers, you know, but then there was just us in this like dust box. Yeah, I was like printing 1099s. as I was as I was thinking about you today, I was like, man, she was born for this job. Is. Yeah.

haha

Are you saying that because of my name?

I was never a fan of mine. Well, I don't know if you have you did not have this because you have a very different name than I do. But I always hated how easy my name was to pronounce because when teachers would, do like a roster, they would go really quick. They'd be like Kate Tellers here. Whereas with other people, they'd be like a Ron. I don't know, I'm making up your story. But you know what I mean? Like, I wanted the teacher to like spend time and try to figure me out. But I was just like boring Kate Tellers.

Yes, that's my story.

Anyway, but yes, I did not like the name that much as a kid. I also didn't like the association with fables. I've never been that type of a person, although I guess I loved fairy tales. in what other ways do you feel like this was the place for you? I mean, 15 years is a long time to stay anywhere.

15 years is a long time to stay anywhere. Well, here's, I'm gonna say something that I am, this is not a unique thing that I'm going to say because I think many of us have experienced this in some way, but in many ways, the moth did maybe not save, but definitely dramatically alter the course of my life because of one, because I really believe in the work and because, you know, the work by definition is constantly changing because we're constantly finding new stories so I came to The Moth, I was an actor and I started doing like comedy and theater and I did a solo show, I do cabarets, I do standup, I do stuff like that. And I liked that, that was fun, but that was largely self -produced. so it's like day job, day job, pour your heart out on stage. Or I would get cast in these like ridiculous shows that I would take because I was an actor, but like my heart was not in them. Like,

And at the same time, my mother was dying. So I would call my mom, I remember calling her once and being like, mom, I'm dressing up as a reindeer in the basement of a restaurant in Chinatown, talking about like Santa's sexual preferences. Like I don't, and she was like, this is your art. You have to do it. Like stay in New York and do your art. And I did, I stayed and I did my art. But anyway, so there was the combination of those. So it was like day job to support sometimes the work that I didn't love. And then my mother died and.

Go baby go!

the night that she died, we all sat in her living room, she died at home and just told stories about her. And it was just so clear that like, that was what I had. she'd done amazing things and, been a mother, been a professional, been a world traveler, could be described in many ways, but what we had were those stories. And I just started some sort of a quest to figure out, how I could live.

my life and not be sort of tithing away one part of it to support something else that wasn't satisfying. But also I really doubled down on my love of stories and then happened to hear the moth on an episode of This American Life and went to a live show and was like, oh, it's this. This is what I want with an audience and a person on stage. That's not like the reindeer and the tutu or even like the standup, which was like throw a joke, get a laugh.

They're joking to laugh. I was like, oh, this, this is the real thing. And then I wrote a terrible cover letter and somehow got on the door.

Couldn't have been that bad.

I mean, we found it a couple of years ago and I was like, why did I talk about how I'm handy with a stapler? Like it's the 21st century.

amazing.

It worked. You just never know. I'm a big fan of write the letter. The only reason I have the apartment I have is because I wrote the letter. And I said, please let me raise my child in this apartment even though I can't afford it. And they said, okay, you can have it. And the rest is history. Second best decision I ever made other than marrying my husband who's a really good guy. And trusted me to write these weird.

That's like the New York story. You're gonna get 4 ,000 emails. Like nothing we say on this podcast matters because now people know that you have New York real estate, like magic powers. And yes.

I think story has the power to do everything. that's really the answer. You have the power, Kate. And we have, we'll have to swap stories at some point. I mean, this episode is about you, but I will say, I can't help but relate because I moved here right after grad school with a master's in acting to be an actor. And I was like, this is going to be great. I mean, I don't really like acting all that much, but.

You

Yeah.

Yeah.

I really like humans and words and I can't figure out any other way that an adult would do that. And I did all these really horrible gigs that I look back on and I just shake my head. My most famous one was I was pregnant and washing dishes on a talk show and I was in some sort of like crazy relationship on the show and my big line was, what about the baby? Ah.

hahahaha

So that was about the pinnacle of my theatrical success, but not dissimilar to you. I got involved with a program that I was really inspired by and ended up staying there for 18 years and having a beautiful, surprising career that took me on a very different journey professionally and personally than I ever expected. as I,

Yeah.

was getting ready to talk to you. I was curious, because we're talking about your story today, do you get nervous telling your story because you're like the guru of story?

Mm -hmm.

No, I think, I mean,, one, I'm just like, so in this world and I've done it enough and been a part of it enough that I've sort of seen everyone fail and everyone succeed. Not everyone, everyone, but do you know what I mean? Like you see the greats flop and you see people that for one night are the Meryl Streep of all Meryl Streeps. And I think.

I'm not true to myself if I'm not to some degree vulnerable. and so maybe I won't tell the most well -structured story, stories aren't only about structure, but you know what I mean., but then secondarily, I just feel like I also feel confident enough in my skills to speak about storytelling or to observe life and communicate it as a story that I feel like I don't think I'm going to.

burn it down.

Yeah, yeah. I feel like for me, the most essential skill that I can rely on and trust is just being present and listening. Is there something similar for storytelling? You feel like if you're just in that mode, okay, things will happen.

Yeah, for sure. I sit in a lot of storytelling seats, so it depends on what my role is in that time. But as a storyteller, 100%, it's being present. It's noticing if something comes out of your mouth weird or the audience is different or where a detail strikes you or you have a surge of emotion. Like the more present you can be with that, the better. And that's also when it's fun. And then as a listener,, like a story director or someone leading a workshop, I have to, it's,

great because I'm like, check everything. Of course, I hear you. Well, your stories through the lens of our own experience, but like check whatever I want to respond with unless it's about myself, unless it's really relevant, which sometimes it is. But, you know, it's just like go on this ride. Listen to this story. Go on the ride. Be curious about it. What's unclear? What you know, and of course, with my brain, I'm always like, well, I want to start here, but I'm going to put that scene, you know, but like still being present and then meeting people wherever they are. There's, you know.

If they're telling a story from their own lives, they already have succeeded. Now, like how do we, you know, explore that story, make it more truthful, make it more compelling, make it more whatever we want to make it.

I know you do a ton of, story coaching, and helping people find the story to tell or shape the story they want to tell. What question do you ask people to get them started on looking for a story or sort of decide, right? Our lives are full of story. So how do you help them decide where to begin?

Mm -hmm.

Our lives are, yeah.

Well, I don't have one question, but I think the thing is, and this is like so much of storytelling is to me, storytelling is like my faith. So I'm like, it applies to all aspects of life. But you can't just ask someone like, tell me a compelling story. It's like that thing like more when I was in comedy, people would be like, you're a comedian, make me laugh. And I'd be like, no. But also like it's content, i I don't want to be precious about that or trot that road. So it's really about just like asking.

any number of prompts. But one of the things that I always think about is, great stories are born of moments that have changed you. So, think about a like a pivotal moment in your life or and to even start smaller, like what's the story that you tell at parties or if your life were a movie, what's one scene that you would have to have in it? we just need to start somewhere and then you ask the questions around it and start building it out. But all I need is like some information about you.

And we'll keep going.

it's the peeling of the onion, I guess. And is.

Totally, yeah. Or it's just like the one stake in the ground. It's not even a stake in the ground. It's a tenuous stake. We don't know if we're gonna keep it. But like, if you just told me that you went to grad school and then you were doing these terrible plays, I might say like, well, when was a moment where you, and you've kind of told us the low, but like, what was the high that you were seeking? What did you want?

Hmm.

And then that would be a way to get into stakes of the story, which is important. You have to care about your story. So like, why was it so terrible that you were either using your pregnancy or in a pregnancy belly, like yelling on stage, you know, what did you want out of that? Or we might dig deeper into why it was so terrible. Cause it's not just, and I hate to speak negatively. I always use the reindeer show as an example. And it was actually a show that my friend put up.

It was just the timing of it and like the stepping outside of myself and being like why I was dancer like why am I in a tutu in this place, you know, this like tiny venue that no one's going to, talking about Santa and sex, which I was not connected to and still I'm not connected to I'll stand by that but you know, while my mother was dying.

And in that I hear a story of meaning and purpose. And that seemed devoid of meaning and purpose for you in that moment. I hope it was transformative for your friend. But for you in that moment, you saw it greater meaning. Do you still remember the first story you told at the moment?

Yeah, right.

for me in that moment. Yeah.

so when I started at the Moth, I'd been doing a lot of things on stage, but when I started at the Moth, I was not on stage. And then this was where the fear comes in,, once you become Kate at the Moth, then there is an expectation when you take the stage. So I remember doing a couple, our slams are open mics, like I would throw my name in.

Yeah.

Oh, and I do remember, I had been a host of shows and I kept saying, I really want to host her shows. And everyone was kind of like, but you're our colleague., there was a little bit of trepidation of like, what if we put Kate from the Moth up there as host? So one night, I was there as like a producer maybe, and one of the hosts train got stuck and we had to start and I started the show and it was so weird because now I've done that, I don't know, hundreds of times, so many times, but I remember being like, all right, you're called and I did it. And I was like,

I can do that, you know, even though I knew that I could. But the first time I hosted, I actually then was brought in to host a slam. It was amazing. It was so great. I was like, I've got this. And this is, I rarely talk about myself and say like, I did so well. But like, it just was like, I freaking love this organization. And I have, the training as it were to be on,, like I.

studied improv and comedy. I know what I'm talking about. I know the values of the organ, like I know how to communicate them. And it was just a freaking blast. And I remember at the end, our audio engineer who I'd known for years said, I didn't realize we had a silver bullet, I think is what he said. it was this whole side of me that I'd kind of been like, put me in coach, come on, put me in, but like hadn't been letting out. And now it's like such a great joy.

you

And a lot of it is because I watched for my job 5 ,000 shows and I got to see these other great hosts that are still doing it to this day do it and then bring my own self to it. you have good days and bad days, but.

That's part of it though, right?

But that's part of it. The more you do, my Ophira Eisenberg, who's an amazing moth host and comedian and amazing human being. I remember telling a story, maybe to slam her at a different storytelling show and just really feeling like I bombed. And she said, what is both profound and obvious? And she was like, the more you do it, the less you bomb, statistically. Do you know what I mean? It's not just, of course you get better, but it's also like, the more you do those things,

then that one terrible bomb is a smaller and smaller like pebble, you know, in the big pool. And I always think about that. And that keeps me confident that even in a slam, when you're doing like a bunch of little interstitials, even if that one didn't really work, that's one little one. And then you do another one and then the roof lifts and you feel great. And then, you know, you just keep doing it and doing it and keeping your odds good.

I was talking to somebody on the show recently and she's a coach who works with people who have ADHD. And she said that her number one principle with her clients is to train them to believe that finishing the action is the goal.

And it's not about what are the outcomes of that, what happens as a result of that. But if we can get our focus on the doing and the completion of the step, then we allow ourselves to learn, to grow, to expand, to fail, to get stronger based on those stumbles. But without that,

Interesting.

We're just sitting around thinking and wishing and dreaming and hoping and getting resentful about all the things that aren't happening to us.

Yeah, it's true. Very true. Yeah.

you talked about how you introduce yourself. And you say, I am Moth Woman Kate. Somehow that sounds weirder than I meant to do. But I'm also someone else. I'm not just a brand. How do you introduce?

Hahaha

hate the person beyond the brand.

Well, it's highly contextual. So I'm here in Bushwick, Brooklyn. A lot of my fans here in the hipster neighborhood of Bushwick, Brooklyn. But a lot of the stuff that I do in my neighborhood is I'm out with my young kids. So when I meet people, and I travel a lot, so a lot of the time it just happenstance will come up to be like, oh, I was just in San Francisco. What did you do there? Oh, I was leading a workshop.

Yeah.

what kind of workshop, what was storytelling workshop I worked for a storytelling nonprofit. And if they're interested in storytelling, I'm happy to keep going, but I'm not gonna throw like the name out. It feels like you're like fishing for something. Like I work with the moth, are you familiar? You know, I just wanna be someone that's like, okay, so I traveled to San Francisco, what do you like about San Francisco? Or what is your life like? Or aren't our children funny? And this is a funny thing here. Like I just want like the organic conversation to happen instead of some sort of what either feels like I'm name -droppy or feels like, here's what it is. When it starts to not feel genuine, like the interaction, it's either me dropping a name or someone being like, oh my gosh, I'm obsessed. I want something from you. I want stage time. I want your feedback. I want like the association. And again, like I'm not hot shit. That's the entire point of this. Like I just want to be a human being. I don't want to start like playing around with some perception of that.

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

So yeah, around here, it's one thing. In corporate spaces, it's different. Some corporate people are obsessed. Some people don't know us at all. And I get to be the person that introduces this totally new thing to them. With my family, they are obsessed. My family reunion, we had like a book signing.

Mm -hmm.

Oh good. That's as it should be.

Yes, my family is very proud and my mother's family in particular is very achievement focused and they're very proud of achievements like,, co authoring a book or what have you.

What do you feel like at this point you've listened to? I don't know, thousands, millions of stories. a lot of stories. What's something that stood out to you from hearing all these stories?

A lot, yeah.

Hahaha!

I think a very unique thing about what we get to do. So whether I'm leading a workshop and having someone stand up and share their story or whether we're getting them ready for stage and having a rehearsal the night before is I get to be in those moments where people are scared out of their minds and in a really, really real way. And this is Nobel Prize winners. These are celebrities. we have such a diverse range of people that come into a room and particularly the joke is if.

If you're telling your story in New York City with the moth, you come to our office and then it's like, all of our production team wants to be in rehearsal. So it's like, oh, it's the entire staff of the organization is known for storytelling. Be compelling,, in a room, not even on the theater stage, like with no theatrical elements helping you. And there's something really gorgeous about seeing people at that vulnerable and then pushing through and then seeing the way that the people in the room.

no matter who they are, are automatically on their side. watching a person who oftentimes was a stranger to me 20 minutes before face a huge fear. t people say people's number one fear is public speaking and like second fear is death.

And so people would rather be in the coffin than giving the eulogy as like the joke. So like I'm watching many people, even if, and like everyone's like, but what about actors? Actors are terrified of being themselves. That's the whole freaking point, you know. Writers are terrified of having their script taken away from them. they can be amazing storytellers, of course, but it doesn't mean that they are., there's no thing that makes them great, except for if they lean into the terrifying place, which is the vulnerability and the honesty and I get to watch that and it's a great equalizer. It makes me, for all of how I can be socially awkward or shy, it just makes me realize that everybody has an in. Everybody has a way to connect with them and a desire to be connected with. And then I get to kind of watch that happen.

Tell me about that inn. How do you cultivate a space where people feel safe enough to be vulnerable?

I think every one of us that does this type of stuff has their own toolkit. I think like the simplest thing is you just have to listen. I think we all just want to be heard and we want to be asked about ourselves and then have what we say be valuable. And I think, you know, when we, I want to stop saying I think, because I just want to stand by what I say. I don't think I know.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah. Thank you for saying. I think about that so much while I'm editing episodes. because I talk to women all day. We all do it, Kate. We all like couch our. You've heard more people tell stories than like just about any other person on the planet. you are. You are a trusted expert.

Yeah, we can talk about that. Yes, but yes. No, no, no, for sure, for sure.

Hmm.

Part of it is that I have the experience and then I have the organization and I have the whatever and the set of expectations. But part of it is just, we have to, I think people want to find someone that they would trust to hear that and are looking for that. And I feel incredibly lucky that I get to do that. And it's probably why I've been in my job for 15 years, because there's always more people.

Yeah. Yeah. There's always more stories. Yeah. And it sounds like really a lot of it is really just the invitation to share a story and an audience of people who want to listen., as you talked about the community in your office rooting for someone, I wonder if that is based in that.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

that sort of universal fear of being seen and judged. And so when we see somebody step out there, we all kind of want to cheer for them because on a deep emotional level, we all know what it's like to fear being judged.

Yeah, yeah, I think, and I think that vulnerability is so gorgeous. And as humans, it's not just my colleagues, like as human beings, we are so drawn to that. And we're so connected, like that's where the connection is. It's not the polish, it's not cutting out your arms or I things or whatever. It's just saying like, I'm freaking terrified or I'm really,, the stories are emotional, people get emotional, we get emotional. I remember one time I...

Mm -hmm.

The first main stage like full length story I told at the moth was about the passing of my mother. It's an emotional story. And when I did it in rehearsal, I had never considered this, but in rehearsal,, we were on the road. So it wasn't that many people, maybe eight people in the room, including my colleagues, one of whom I worked on the story with,, who I was close with and, and other people who I'd become fond of. And then I told.

I told the story, but I could see everyone and everyone started crying and I was like, oh, I feel terrible. I'm so sorry,, because you could see the response. It's the most terrifying thing to like actively be making someone cry, but then have to keep going. And then we were all fine at the end and it was lovely. But it was so people are doing that. People are like bringing this vulnerable thing and then watching human beings like in a room just cry at them. And not that we cry in every story, of course, but it.

It certainly happens.. I love to laugh and cry with strangers. That's why I love it.

Yeah.

Ah, me too. I really, it's my favorite. We had a road trip this weekend as a family and we were going to a funeral so it was already a sad occasion but we started a tally to see how many times somebody cried in the car. I won. We listened to Tracy Chapman, I cried. My husband disciplined my daughter, she cried. You know, I mean, there was, and we were just talking about like there's so much.

Yeah.

Hahaha.

and we as humans cry. But there's something so intimate just about being real with people. I will admit that I was nervous about talking to you because I was like, I guess, I mean, this is a show about stories and I'm talking to the story woman and she like actually knows how to graph stories. And I haven't thought about the Freytag diagram since college. But it is, I think it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm going to go wash.

Hahaha

to your point, if we can just get out of our own heads and start thinking about doing things well or right and just be present where we are, really beautiful stuff happens.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

How do you keep yourself brave? Kate,

I don't know if that is my strength. Well, I shouldn't say that. I think, I mean, I truly honestly don't believe that that is my biggest strength. I constantly like, one of the thoughts racing through my brain in the middle of the night if I can't sleep is like, when was the last time I did something that scared me? What scares me? What can I do that scares me? I think there is a degree of...

Because of so much of my life is spent doing kind of intense things that have to be somewhat unplanned, I am walking on that line. So for example, I will go into a workshop that people have invested in where they want an outcome. But by nature of what we do, I cannot plan every piece. I have to create a space where that can happen. And then I know that things will happen. And I have to be confident that they happen in a way that feels, quote, productive, depending on the context that I'm in, but also honest.

Mm -hmm.

Or I have to do a show and I know kind of what what the map of the show is I know what's gonna happen sometimes sometimes I don't at all depending on what type of a show it is and I just have to go and be comfortable with walking that line of like being prepared but also being prepared to be unprepared I don't know if that's brave, but it keeps me fresh

Yeah. To me, it feels alive, those moments. Those moments are really scary to me. I put a lot of pressure on myself for exactly what you just described. Productive, but real. And immediate. And it's like my highest level of accountability in life at all times, I think. But it's also what makes me feel alive and gives me a ton of meaning. And yeah.

Yeah.

Right. Right.

hahahaha

I mean, I negotiate a lot speaking of productive. And I just told you about, I don't know if like, I'm like, is it because my mother's family is like a middle Eastern immigrant family that like really worked? Like my grandfather didn't speak English when he moved to the U S and, you know, became a businessman that was able to buy his wife's family a home., is it that, or is it what? And then my dad's family is a whole other thing, but I, I'm constantly trying to silence the achievement monster. I think I'm.

Mm -hmm.

bastardizing the words of Jen Romilini. But like, yeah, like I, so I think I work well in like corporate settings because I will ultimately be productive. I mean, that's,, a lot of the work that I do, but I'm constantly like, it doesn't have to be productive, Kate, just be in the moment, just be present. Doesn't have to, there's no, there's no goal, let it be, you know. And that's definitely

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

something that I try to be mindful of so that it's not all outcome, even though there's so much pressure to have outcomes.

To me, what it really sounds like is, is it a good use of people's time? That to me is what, and that's a big responsibility. I feel like time is so precious that every time I have somebody's time, I'm like, we have to, I can't waste it.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Oh, 100. I never want to. No, I do not want to waste someone's time. Even if it's a nothing time, I want it to feel, I don't know, real or present or something,

Yeah, I'm sure there's a whole psychology we could unpack on that one. as you do your work, so much of it is holding space for other people. And you're very much a coach, whether it's story coaching or even just caring for your storytellers and helping them feel safe and courageous. And...

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

That takes energy. So I'm curious how you replenish yourself to keep showing up with that much energy and pouring it into other people.

I really love good food and stiff martinis. And no, I mean, that's obviously, I do enjoy gathering our home here is what my husband and I, or maybe just me, refer to as sometimes like the family home. We have guests over a lot, we host family a lot, and that really fills me up. that's still like we're setting out the plates and doing the thing, but just like.

Hmm.

filling the house with joy and people and having meaningful conversations and being goofy and just like blasts of unconditional love is wonderful. And multi -generational my kids are six and nine, it's a wonderful time to do that with their friends. I like to read, it's funny sometimes it feels like the biggest luxury. But I think sometimes it's like,

because it's someone telling me a story and they're just telling it. The story is done. I don't have to give it notes. It's not seeing if I, like someone talks to me in the middle of a sentence and I put the book down for 20 minutes and pick it up. I don't have to show that I respect the story, even though I do, I respect writers. So I love to do that. I like to, yeah.

Uh -huh...

You just get to be the audience is what you're saying. You don't have to be a co -creator or support the creation. That's so interesting. Wow, yeah, that makes so much sense.

I like to be thought, I like to see good things, yeah. Or support the creation, yeah. And then I like to, I mean, I like to do shows. I like to be on the other side and think about,, it inspires me. Art begets art, stories beget stories. So hearing other people's experiences and connecting with different people sometimes it makes me feel very creative and sometimes, you know, I sit down to write and I'm like, there are.

this brain this evening, we will close the computer.

Do you write a lot?

No, I try to write a lot., I have a practice, I write, I, I try to keep in the rhythm of it, but I also try to like, there have been times where I'll go a month without working on anything, and just be okay with working on any of my own writing and just feel like, is my cup full? Do I feel excited and like, I'm feeling and connected with the world and seeing and experiencing new things? Yes, then.

Mm -hmm.

my own writing is going to not be the priority for this period of time.

I think what you're describing in there is, do I have a creative outlet?

Yeah, or do I feel it's not even because some of it is an I guess it's a creative outlet the way that the reason that I like stumble on that a little bit is because That feels very much about me. Do you know what I mean? Like am I expressing and sometimes it's This isn't a time where I have anything that I particularly need to get out and to say this is a time where I want to replenish where I want to listen where I want to just connect and take in the world so that I can

Uh huh, expressing, yep.

Mm -hmm.

process it and maybe be creative with it. sometimes it's just like, well, the, you know, kids had a week off and we had a million adventures. And at the end of the day, I just wanted to like, chill, you know, and not communicate with people because I've been communicating intensely with them all day.

Well, and you were creating something different, which I guess the other thing that really strikes me about that is that it is about our definition of creativity, right? That it, right? And like creating memories, creating experiences, creating work that lives on is one thing. I think it's especially for people who are in creative fields, really valuable to remember that the creative cup can be filled.

Yeah.

100%, yeah.

Yeah.

in many different ways and actually filling it in new ways has, generally speaking, great impact on filling it in ways that maybe are more associated with our creative work, our capital C creative.

100%, yeah. Find that, the shower idea, like find different ways to like have that shower. And that again, has been important for me to learn because of this achievement mindset of like, oh, I'm failing because I didn't write my 600 words tonight or whatever. Not that I write 600 words every night, but am I living?

Hmm.

Mm -hmm.

a good life? Am I experiencing the world? Am I giving back to the world? Am I feeling fulfilled and connected? And like, I have a perspective that needs to be communicated in some way. they're all intertwined.

. They enrich one another. I think about that a lot in my own career because now I don't have the corporate gig. I consult, I coach, and I do my creative work. And I have to remind myself like you that I don't have to do all of those all the time because they all get better with some neglect.

Right.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

And I learn what I need to learn for each one from the other and often from doing none of them. there's no better creative stimuli than vacation.

Yeah.

Kate, I'm so happy to be connected with you and I'm so happy to hear a little about your story. So grateful that you're joining us in May at our Uplifters Live event. I think this is just gonna be such a special moment for everyone there to get to receive a little coaching and insight from you on storytelling and within this conversation about

doing brave things and going out on our edge a little bit and getting uncomfortable. I think your reminder that that is a universal experience is so reassuring.

. Yeah, for sure. For sure. It's definitely grounded me.

It's also there's nothing wrong with you because you feel like you don't know what you're doing. It's just actually I think a symptom that you're doing things.

for sure.

Yeah.

keep doing things, some of them unproductive, hopefully.

Yeah, for sure. For sure.