Takeaways:

• Martha Stewart's influence on home aesthetics creates unrealistic expectations that can induce shame.
• The podcast emphasizes the importance of feeling good in your home over mere appearance.
• Comparisons to Martha Stewart often lead to anxiety about personal home standards and perfectionism.
• Lacey and Sara discuss how authenticity can be perceived differently based on one's upbringing.
• The conversation highlights the power of multiple narratives in defining what a home can be.
• Efficiency in home management should not overshadow the importance of emotional fulfillment in domestic spaces.

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Welcome to no Shaming the Home Game, the podcast that cares how your home feels, not looks.

And that's going to be really important in today's episode.

I'm here with my co host, Sarah.

Hi, Sarah.

Hi, Lacy.

I am so excited about the not looks part because I was just commenting.

Lacy is all zhuzhed up this morning, and I of course, was like, I'll go to the grocery store first thing in the morning, which meant I didn't get myself ready.

And then I was like, oh, should I get ready for this recording?

And I was like, you know what?

It's perfect that I don't because that will highlight Easter egg.

A lot of my feelings about what we're gonna talk about.

I appreciate that you think I got myself so ready.

I just think the bar is so low for me, typically, that I put so little effort into it that it looks like I tried.

So thank you.

You're welcome.

So today we're doing a little bit of a special one off type episode, talking about the Martha Stewart documentary that hit Netflix a few weeks ago.

This came up because Sarah was like, did you watch it?

And I had been hearing about it in a few places and I said, I haven't, but I will and we should talk about it for the podcast.

So that was my homework this weekend.

I watched it.

I watched it with Joe, which also was a very interesting experience that I'm sure will be peppered in throughout this.

As I was watching this, I'm like, of course we're talking about this.

This is so applicable to us.

But I want to let you talk, Sarah, since this kind of starts with you, I'm gonna let you introduce it a bit.

So interestingly enough, I was not gonna watch the documentary.

And then I was on threads, of course, and somebody was posting their takeaways from the documentary, and one of them was about the stock market situation.

And the way this person phrased it, it piqued my interest.

And I thought, oh, there's more to this story than I knew about.

And now I really am intrigued.

So that was what got me to start watching it.

And the reason I was hesitant to watch it.

The work I do is a pushback response to all of Martha Stewart.

So growing up when I was little, it was very prevalent.

My grandmother was very much into Martha Stewart.

Like we used to jokingly say Martha Stewart's catchphrase.

It was like a thing between the two of us.

But I wasn't running my own home then, so it didn't mean anything to me.

And then When I started running my own home, my mom, God bless her, love language is gifts.

She sent me the Martha Stewart magazine, and I was managing my own home, looking at this magazine, and the distance between the two was so vast that it gave me anxiety, and I was like, I don't need this.

I can't get to whatever this is.

I'm just trying to get through day to day.

And I think that's why when we talk on this podcast, I'm always so adamant to say my house isn't perfect.

I'm not interested in magazine perfect.

And that comes from the Martha Stewart empire, which I am not saying that there's anything wrong with it.

I'm just saying that wasn't my bag, and that's fine.

If that's other people's bags.

Like, I am not gonna rain on anyone else's.

What is it?

Yuck.

Somebody else's.

Yum.

I'm just not what I'm here to do.

But it wasn't serving me, and it was actually making me feel shame about my home.

And so I stopped torturing myself with the magazine.

I would immediately hand it to my neighbor because I was like, I can't even.

So everything about no Shame in the Home game is actually in direct response to me feeling like that was not a standard.

I could not even.

That I couldn't live up to it.

Want to?

Yeah.

All right, Lacey, go.

Well, one of the things that I wrote down, I have a full page of notes that I took while watching it, and I have so many thoughts.

And one thing that I do want to say before we really dive in.

Martha Stewart's a badass.

Like, 100%.

In so many ways, she is a badass.

And so one of the things that I took away from this is this idea that she believes and has sold, this idea of a single story, that there is a right and wrong way to do things, that this is what we should all strive towards.

And I just don't believe that is true.

It's not wrong.

It's just that single story is what I think ultimately caused her downfall in some ways, too.

You're going to hear me say that a lot throughout this is that it's this single story.

And then the other thing that I wrote down at a certain point, where I literally wrote, oh, she is about the looks, not the feels.

And we are about the feels, not the looks.

Like, they talk a lot about her home being a place that was kind of chilly and that she didn't know how to be emotionally available for her Daughter.

I think about that and I'm like, that's not what I want.

So why would I ascribe to this particular story?

That really hit home for me.

Okay, so my kind of relationship to Martha is a little bit more in a proxy way.

You all have heard me talk about my older sister Amy, and Amy is my Martha Stewart.

Like, we literally have called her that in life.

And so she is the person that I compare myself to.

Well, if Amy can do this, why can't I do it?

And to me, that is that connection.

And my.

My sister Amy is lovely and wonderful and has emotions and all that stuff.

Not as many as me, and that's fine.

But I feel like a person in my life who has become my version of Martha Stewart.

And that makes it feel a lot more personal to me in a lot of ways.

And so instead of comparing it necessarily to Martha, I'm comparing it to Amy.

But the standard in our society was set by Martha and has still been set by her.

What I really thought was interesting is this idea that before Martha, a lot of advertisements towards women was about making their lives easier.

And she changed that.

We still feel that 100% down the way.

And it also made me realize my grandmom, who was a homemaker in every sense of the way she was that older school version where she's like, oh, it's so easy to do this.

And so it was an aha moment for me of, oh, so it hasn't always been this way.

And I do have an example of the before Martha.

There's a lot to the Martha of it all, which is what I've named this episode.

There is so much, and you already touched on this.

And I want to be so clear with the audience.

This is not about cutting Martha down or saying she's wrong or bad or any of that stuff.

I really felt for her when she said in the beginning when she got married and had the baby and she said, that's just what you did.

I have so much compassion that she was ahead of her years and her desires and wants and capabilities and society wasn't there.

Right.

And I think if she had been born in a different time, she would have maybe built a different type of empire.

And she was working within the confines of what society was saying a woman was allowed to do.

So, yes, all respect to everything she built.

And we also get to contrast.

Like you said, she's about the looks, not the feels.

And we're the opposite.

And I think that's.

I think it's good.

I Don't think we should all agree with the same thing.

I think we can take bits and pieces.

So.

Yeah, I just wanna make that so clear.

I like that you brought up the before Martha and then the after Martha.

I never really thought about that because I've always known of her.

But you're right, products used to be about making life easier.

And it's so funny, I just read a line in my book last night about this gentleman.

He was an advertising exec and he said something to the effect of the smiles he would portray in the advertisements for household items he knew was actually robbing the joy from actual customers.

Cause there was a standard that was being set by these smiling advertising people that he knew would never be met.

And then when you were talking about Martha, I'm like, yeah, there was this like, oh, if you get to this level, there'll be that love and that joy and that happiness.

Which again, watching the documentary, there was.

Not love, joy and happiness.

Holy lack, holy lack of love, joy and happiness.

Oh my goodness.

I actually, I can't wait any longer.

What was Jo's takeaway?

It was interesting because first thing I wanna say, and I know we say it a lot, Joe and I live in a very egalitarian household.

One, because that was our desire, but two, because of necessity, because of my chronic illness.

And post bedtime, which he does the majority of the physical parts of bedtime, so like helping the kids get clothes on, they like to lay with him at night, cuz he's funny and he makes them laugh.

And I'm like, stop doing that cuz you're just riling them up before bed.

But it's fine.

That's what, that's his choice, that's what he does.

So usually what happens is I'm already in bed and he comes in and he's, do you need anything?

Are you good?

And then I usually am like listening to a book and like just relaxing and, and then going to bed eventually.

But last night I was like, hey, I'm gonna watch this Martha documentary.

You don't have to watch it with me.

I would like to.

I, I don't want you to feel one of those things where I'm like, I'm not like asking you to do this as a favor to me, but I want you to know this space is open.

Cause sometimes at the end of the night I'm like, I need to be alone.

I'm sorry.

I love you.

I need to be alone.

He was not interested.

I just say that.

But he would, I think he was like, there's this opportunity to spend time together.

We'll watch it.

He said he was like, I'll probably leave, like, part of the way through.

He stayed the whole time.

So I think that is a very interesting part of it.

What really was interesting with Joe is, first of all, he was like, is she a narcissist?

And.

But what we ended up as we talked through is he highlighted to me, had.

What I had seen and realized is she has a very masculine energy and brings that masculine energy and use that masculine energy to her benefit in a lot of ways.

And he.

He was making me laugh.

He was like, the good and bad sides of masculine energy.

She.

You can hear her say things that toxic masculine are hallmarks of.

And I.

I enjoyed hearing that from him because he's a man watching this, right?

But at the same time, in the beginning, he was like, she did insider training, so, like, why do we care about what's going on?

So it was just interesting to hear him have those out loud things from his perspective.

I did write down one quote from Joe.

He said, I was saying she is a doer, which I can relate to, right?

I like to be a doer.

Because he.

He's like, when is it ever going to be enough for her?

And that's what I said.

I don't think that there isn't enough, because for her, it's the doing.

And the outcome is it is what she wants, right?

Fame, money, and growth and empire.

But at the end of the day, her need to do is what's more important than those outcomes, I think.

And he was like, yeah, you're right.

He was like, you know what happened?

He's like, she went to prison and prison made her stop.

Prison made her slow down.

And I just looked at him and I was like, oh, my gosh, Jill, you're right.

Like, that was a turning point for her in a lot of different ways.

And one of the big things is that it made her stop and.

Or slow down.

And she would have never done that before.

And that's something that I relate to, right?

Like, I got sick and I had to stop, slash, slow down.

And even with someone who has this height of fame and success and whatnot, needed to stop in order to live a different type of life, that seems more fulfilling for her emotionally today.

I like that he picked up on that.

And there was a line in there where somebody commented that going to prison was the door that opened up for her and that she was always so worried what people thought about her.

And I do.

I love that.

Just what does it matter anymore?

The worst has happened.

Just throw everything out on the wall.

And let's all be honest, too.

Total bs.

Total BS that she got.

I mean, trust me, I didn't expect to be on Martha's side when it comes to her case.

I just kept saying to Joe, I'm like, sweet.

How are they proving that she didn't recall something?

Because that's really what it comes down to.

She said, I don't recall.

And they're trying to prove that she did recall.

I'm like, how?

But you do that.

You can't.

And I know this might seem like a really extreme comparison, but I have read a couple of books lately that have to do with witches and witch hunts and how these women weren't truly like witches in what the word means, but they were just witches because they wouldn't go along with the religious establishment.

I know it sounds like such an extreme statement, but I mean, like, that was truly a witch hunt.

Like, it was.

She was a woman who was not conforming to what men wanted a woman to be.

And it sucks.

Well, and that set the stage for this takedown of this.

We already know she's not likable in X, Y and Z ways, so we're going to use that.

And I thought she was prosecuted for insider training.

She wasn't.

That's not what she was.

She was prosecuted for lying to the feds, but the insider training didn't happen.

So why are they trying it?

It really is like I said, whether you like her or not, it doesn't matter.

The whole thing is such b.

In so many ways, such bs.

It is because of that element of what you were saying about she wasn't likable in these places.

So they used those to essentially prosecute you.

Oh, yeah.

If she had been a man, yeah, it wouldn't have happened.

And if she had been a really timid, nice lady, that wouldn't happen.

And I realized earlier when we were talking and this I'm going to jump around, but it all connects back to the Martha of it all, which is when you were talking, I realized that the epitome of the contrast is that masculine energy and the home has been subconsciously or consciously, the home is feminine.

And that's one of the things that I always say.

I'm like, no, it's an organization which is neutral.

There's no gender in organization.

But yeah, she was in the epicenter of something feminine.

Those two things being on such far ends of the spectrum.

Oh, My gosh.

When she was yelling at that woman about the type of knife she was using, I was like, yeah, there are a thousand ways to tell somebody to use a different knife.

She has picked most un.

Like, to me, it was unkind.

Well, yeah.

And really is actually what I wrote down.

Oh.

She believes there is a right way to do things.

And that right way is end all, be all.

That's what's more important.

And it's because her priority is efficiency.

And so what she sees as efficient is the most important thing.

That's the right way.

You move along.

And.

No, that's literally that moment.

It was when I got.

She believes probably that you have to.

Your home has to look a certain way or whatnot.

I'm like.

But no, she believes there's a right way to live.

And that has been the underpinning of everything that she's done of.

I know the right way to live.

I'm going to teach it to you.

See, you can do it, too.

Anyone can do it.

Which, man, I just.

She is so freaking smart in so many ways.

Like, Jo and I talked about how her ability to try to make that ideal, quote, unquote, attainable, and she did it in multiple different places.

So, like, with the Kmart thing, and then even when she went to prison, she was like, all right, we're going to make this attainable.

We're going to have cucumber sandwich.

One of my big kind of takeaways, really, that I don't have an answer to, but I want to.

I'm.

There's something there that I can't figure out.

And multiple times she talks about authenticity.

She said she was authentic.

And that discrepancy of authenticity is ultimately what became part of her downfall, but also has been part of her reemergence.

And I just.

I'm like, she is authentic in some ways because she truly believes this is the right way to live.

She truly believes that.

So that is authentic.

And so it's just.

There's this element of authenticity with her that I keep wrestling with because I've talked a lot about how authenticity is very important to me.

I don't think in those times I wouldn't have called her authentic, but did she ever say, I have the perfect marriage, I'm the best mom.

I'm all these things I don't think she ever did.

And so is some of that inauthenticity something we have put on her?

Yes, I completely see what you're saying, and I completely agree.

She has always been who she is.

And she's never tried to be something she's not.

When I got married, there was a person that I was then in my life who very much like Martha, very masculine, energy, very much said exactly what was on her mind.

And when I got married and I was younger, some of the things this person said, I was butt hurt.

I was so hurt.

But then as the years got on and I got older, she didn't change.

But my view of her, of the way she interacted with the world, I was able to take a step around it and see it differently.

And I was like, oh, she never lies about how she's feeling.

She never says anything that isn't true to her.

Like, you always know where you stand with her.

I'm talking about this relative, but I really think it's very much like Martha.

It's.

I actually really respect that she's going to say what she's feeling, although she doesn't care if she hurts your feelings.

But there's also no confusion.

I grew up witnessing, on a different side of my family, a lot of harboring resentment that was not talked about.

Yes.

Her yelling about the knife.

She's not harboring resentment.

Oh, she's going to fire that person later because she wasn't efficient.

No.

She tells her, like, right in the moment.

It's a tough pill to swallow.

I think you're right.

She was authentic.

She believes there's one way to do things and she's not going to, like, pussyfoot around it, which, I don't love that phrase, but I don't know another.

Phrase I would say.

Dance around it.

Yes, dance around it.

I also grew up in a family being taught there was one way to do something.

And so I also have a really hard time with there's one way to do something.

Because that's not true.

Yeah, absolutely.

And again, it's a danger of a single story because again, she becomes better when she starts bringing in other people's stories.

So she goes to prison.

She sees how these women are living in prison.

She comes out saying, I want to help them for better.

And so she.

She can see the difference.

And her relationship with Snoop Dogg, I think, is another aspect of her seeing a different story and being able to embrace that.

And that's why I think what we are doing here is something I'm so passionate about, because we say from the bat, this is not a single story.

It's your home.

It's how it works for you.

We talk about how it works in other people's homes.

So that you can have perspectives so that you can see other ideas.

There is not one right way.

And it makes me sad, especially where we are right now in the world as far as being so divided, because what it's doing is it's really not allowing for multiple stories to exist at the same time.

And I think that is so powerful.

Literally, it changed Martha Stewart for the better in so many ways.

There is no single story.

There is no right way.

And that the answer is to listen to more stories of other people and to make room and make space for those stories, because we all benefit from it.

Oh, I agree.

But I wouldn't have ever thought to say it that succinctly.

And I always think of the proverb of walk a mile in another person's shoes, and it's.

You don't have to agree, but you can understand.

I don't agree with her saying there's one knife to use, but I understand, given her upbringing, why she said that.

And also, she's running an empire.

Like, she doesn't have time to be not efficient.

And that's her objective.

The outcome she's desiring is that image of perfection and efficiency.

I did want to note I was really impressed and surprised by the Kmart situation when she was on David Letterman and he was baiting her into talking bad about Kmart customers.

And it could have been one of two things.

It could have been her just realizing the monetary opportunity of opening up to a totally different market.

By the way, Jo was like, that's what it is.

What that is one Joe opinion there.

But there's a small part of me that believes, given her upbringing, she watched her mom.

Wasn't there a part where she talked about her mom not having enough food at the table to eat for herself?

I think there was a small part that was like, I'm serving the people who I was when I grew up, like, who my mom was.

I mean, who knows?

Who knows?

But I admired that she didn't say anything snarky about those customers.

And she didn't keep it.

Because as much as you want to call her almost an elitist, if she was truly an elitist, she wouldn't be marketing to that audience.

No.

And I think she is an elitist, but not in the way that we typically use it of that she thinks she is inherently better than someone.

She thinks the way that she lives her life is better and that anybody can be lifted to that status and she's going to give you the tools to lift it.

As far as the information, it is a very by your bootstrapstraps kind of way of looking at things.

Because realistically, she was a beautiful blonde white lady who was able to use that to make some money in modeling and whatnot, to go to college, meet a rich husband.

And that's where a lot of her opportunity came from.

I'm not knocking her for that, but you know what I mean, not everybody is skinny, blonde, pretty, living in New Jersey, can go to New York City.

That's not too far away.

There's just a lot to that.

But yes, that I don't think she always saw were things that helped her along the way.

Yes, I agree 100%.

There are so many unique elements that not everyone has access to that are just inherent to where you're born.

I also think, and I feel so strongly about this, like you were saying, she's a doer.

I think there are different types of.

I don't know what to call it.

It's almost like your internal energy.

She could run on two hours of sleep if you think about different computers like RAM and storage and all that stuff.

She obviously has the top of the line in how much her physical body can do, how much her mental capacity can hold and juggle.

And I think that's something you're born with.

I do not think I truly, in my heart, I don't believe that you can become that person.

I don't believe that everybody is capable of that level.

And I say that because my sister and I complete opposite.

I always joke she's half robot because I do not understand how she does everything she does.

And I'm sure she's more like Martha in that way.

And she can run on four hours of sleep and then you look at me and I'm mentally tapped out, exhausted on things.

So yes, I think Martha, if she got outside of her singular story even more and realized, no, not everyone can truly work as hard physically and mentally, and that's okay.

Moth's just fine.

And the other thing that I realized, I'm like, oh, she can do so much because efficiency is her priority, right?

If she's doing everything as efficiently as possible, she can fit more and more in which commendable, great, not my priority.

Are there certain things that I'm like, what are you doing?

Like that it's the hardest way possible to do that, but maybe it's not the hardest way possible for that person.

I think efficiency is so person specific that she found the right ways for her and that also led to her to be able to do all These things.

But even efficiency is dependent on who you are and what you need and all that stuff.

Well, and it's that balancing out of efficiency at the expense of fill in the blank.

And to use it to focus on a different aspect, having everything look that certain polished way to me.

It doesn't feel inviting and relaxing.

It looks great.

But have you ever been in somebody's house where you almost feel like you don't want to breathe?

You sit, like, on the edge of the couch because you don't even want to lean back and feel comfortable?

You know what I mean?

Like to that extreme of, yeah, so everything looks perfect, but is she enjoying it?

Is she enjoying her flower guard?

Or is she just seeing everything that can be improved upon?

What's the point?

What's the point of all that if you can't, in your soul feel the enjoyment?

The one thing I will say as you were talking, maybe that is enjoyment for her.

Think she gets enjoyment from efficiency?

I think that is something that.

And maybe it's not enjoyment.

Maybe it's fulfillment.

I don't know the right word.

I'm not in her body, I don't know.

But I think she inherently gets that, which is great for her, but that sounds stressful to me.

Okay, yeah, I hear what you're saying about the efficiency, but let's focus on not the efficiency of a process, but let's focus on what is.

And I think what is.

She's looking for a perfection standard.

So instead of efficiency, do you think that she ever is able to enjoy?

Because I don't think perf.

I think perfection is like Sisyphus in the rock.

I don't think it exists.

So my question is, do you think that she can ever be in her house and rest because she thinks everything is, quote unquote, perfectly done?

That is a great question.

Literally.

And I wrote down this as a quote because it's like the last thing she says is imperfection is something you can deal with.

That's something she's learned, can conquer it.

Or deal with it as.

And you can be okay with it.

You can try to be okay with it.

Like, that's what.

That's literally her, like a quote.

She says imperfection is something you can deal with.

And I think the answer is, no, she can't.

But she's trying, which is something I can relate to.

I can't do that, but I know I.

It's something I should strive to.

It's taken her, however old she is, to get to that point.

That sounds exhausting.

But and I love that we've been able to, like, discuss this and I've been able to really work out, like, what part of her story am I projecting my childhood and seeing it through that lens.

And I think the big takeaway for me, and again, focusing on this is why we have this podcast and why we're trying to reach out to people is I just, growing up, didn't think that there was a second option.

I thought that it had to.

No, it's this.

Or you have an app.

Yep.

And what I'm so passionate about.

And you share this too, with our work.

It's just, is your home running how you want it to so that you can eat and sleep and have clean clothes and go outside and do whatever else you want to be doing with your time?

I just want people to know they have an option and one isn't right and one isn't wrong.

Can I share a win that I had this weekend?

That felt big for me, of course.

And I.

Things will happen at the right time.

We had our extended family Thanksgiving yesterday and Sunday.

Oh.

I took on the task of having my kids do crafts to be like table decorations and such.

And I did it in a way that felt good, that had a good outcome still.

So I didn't meet my goals.

If you saw, I posted an Instagram reel about me trying to make these pine cone turkeys that just ended up like googly eyed pieces of poo.

But there are other parts of it that I did get done and that, like, my kids didn't like hand print things that became runners on tables that we were gonna turn into turkeys but then didn't become turkeys.

And that was like, that's fine.

They're just Thanksgiving handprints that you can turn into a turkey if you want.

And I got a lot of really lovely feedback from everyone about how nice it looked.

And I had this moment where I was like, oh, this is what I want to strive for.

I was okay with the process.

I did a little bit at a time.

Was it my exact vision?

No.

But it still had an outcome that I'm very happy and proud with.

The looks and the feels happened together.

And so I just think, especially watching the Martha thing last night, it was such an interesting juxtaposition of I was still reaching for something that was more than I normally do, but I did it in a way that felt good, that felt authentic, and had that pretty outcome that I was hoping for.

And I.

That felt really big for me personally.

And then to watch the Martha Thing after that of, oh, look how far I've come.

You know what I mean?

I did end up with something pretty and I was able to do it in a way that felt good and didn't feel like torture and that I beat myself up the whole time with.

And I share that because to show both things can happen at the same time.

You can still have that beautiful outcome in a way that feels better.

There's so many possibilities and I think that's the more important part than the perfection.

Yes.

I love that you shared that story because I think that's what we want to bring to people is slowing down and assessing what is your goal?

What are your resources and being okay with.

Yeah, it wasn't exactly.

But you know what?

My kids had fun.

We enjoyed the moment and like really kind of.

Right.

Sizing all of that.

Yeah.

You didn't abandon the plan because you couldn't do it exactly the way you wanted.

Finding that happy medium.

Gosh.

I just.

I hope more than we always say, like as.

As long as one person hears this and gets something, I.

I hope more than one person gets something from this and just knows that they can find that balance between outcome and expectations and being okay.

Yeah.

And that perfection isn't the goal.

Well, it's not.

It's not our goal.

It can be the goal as.

As exampled in Martha's documentary.

That is her goal.

We can't take away her goal.

Her goal is still valid.

We can offer many different possibilities and what feels good to you.

I could honestly talk about this so much more.

Yeah.

But I feel like we're to a.

Good place where we've processed it.

I mean, I would ultimately love to be able to invite other people in listening and I want to hear more perspectives.

I want to hear more stories.

I want to have a whole spin off series.

We just talk with people about how.

Martha has impacted their life, what they thought about the documentary.

I could too.

And I again.

So I feel good about leaving it here because I lost my train of thought and we're not here to be perfect.

So there we go.

Let's do gratitude.

What are you thankful for today?

I am thankful for what I was able to accomplish for our party yesterday, which isn't a huge deal, but it feels good for me for so many reasons.

And one is because I looked at the resources I had.

I didn't buy anything.

You know what I mean?

So, like, my kids like to go collect things outside.

Let's have them collect sticks and pine cones.

We already have construction paper I can use these Topo Chico sparkling water bottles as centerpieces, all these things.

And I'm thankful and grateful for how far I've come.

One of my aunts yesterday said to me, I hold onto this very deeply.

She was like, I can see in your smile, in your face that you are doing so much better than you have been in the past.

And it makes me very happy.

And I just.

That means a lot to me and just is something that I am grateful for.

That the people around me can see my progress and can see me making life work in.

In a tangible way outside of different standards of wood is good.

You know what I mean?

That meant a lot to me and I really think about it and I appreciate it.

And I know that's not like a thing I'm grateful for, but it's just like this whole package that I'm thinking about today that made me so happy.

Don't you just love ants who just.

They just.

I.

Amazing ants.

Oh my gosh.

I love that.

I'm so happy for you.

I am thankful for sometimes when you put things out into the universe and then it clicks, like really quickly.

Yeah.

So I have toyed with the idea for years about trying a fake Christmas tree, which is weird because I love real trees.

I love being outside around trees.

But for multiple reasons, I've always been fake Christmas tree curious.

And I.

Every year I look at the clearance ones and I'm always like, should we try?

And then I happened to be on Facebook.

I'm part of some buy nothing groups.

Yeah.

And I just happened to be on five minutes after this lady posted about this tree that she was giving away.

And so I was like, I can be there tomorrow morning.

So I'm just thankful for.

I don't know, is it coincidences?

Serendipity for things working out for.

And I don't know, I don't know how many years we'll do this, but I'm glad that I get to try it at zero expense.

Yeah.

And then maybe I just.

I like that feeling of passing things along.

It feels good.

I don't know what to call it.

I like serendipity.

I'm loving and learning more and more about the universe, delivering when you need it and just taking those opportunities when you can.

Yes.

And that just felt good.

And let me say back to Martha.

Martha took opportunities.

That's something that I'm always very impressed with.

So kudos to her for that.

Kudos to anyone for taking the opportunities it presented to them.

Kudos to everyone for showing up.

Showing up.

That's all we gotta do is just show up.

Yep.

I really enjoyed this episode.

I really wanna talk about it more sometimes.

I love my like Real Housewives.

Yeah.

And there I the most of the podcasts I listen to are people talking about Real Housewives.

And so part of my dream is someday to be on one of those podcasts but not host one.

And this just solidified that.

I enjoyed watching it for a purpose, knowing I'm gonna talk to somebody about it, but I get too intense for it to be all the times just also confirming that for me.

That's great.

I really want that to happen for you.

2025 goals.

I would love to be a guest on a Housewives recap podcast so I can give my opinions and then go off into the ether without having responsibility of them afterwards.

Thank you, Sarah.

Thank you, Lacey.