How I Got Hired in Product with Hunter Guerin

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Becca Moran: I'm Becca and

this is How I Got Hired.

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How I Got Hired is a series of

interviews where product managers share

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how they landed great product roles.

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From PMs who made a career pivot into

tech, to those with more formal training,

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How I Got Hired captures the various ways

to open doors into the world of product.

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We'll be talking about each guest's

recipe for success, what motivated

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them to get into product, how they

prepared for the interview and what

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they did to set themselves apart.

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Today, my guest is Hunter Guerin.

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Hunter is the founder of LLAMAWOOD,

the world's first on demand

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firewood delivery marketplace.

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Before that, Hunter spent four and a

half years in various product roles at

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Xometry, which is an online marketplace

for custom manufactured parts.

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Hunter, welcome to the show.

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Glad to be here.

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So great to have you.

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Um, so Hunter and I, uh,

work together at Xometry.

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So we'll be telling the

story of how Hunter got hired

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there, uh, on today's show.

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Um, but before we get into that

story, uh, we wanted to kick things

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off with a little icebreaker.

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So, Hunter, are you ready

for two truths and a lie?

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I

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Hunter Guerin: am ready as I'll ever be.

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Becca Moran: Alright, um,

do you want to go first?

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Hunter Guerin: Sure.

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Um, you, uh, many of these, when I

was thinking, um, about ideas, I feel

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like, you know, so I know it's pretty

difficult and basically took almost

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all true stories that you probably know

and just tweaked a little bit of it.

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So it's Yeah.

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If you, if you, if you figure

this 1 out, I'll be impressed.

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All right.

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Appreciate the warning.

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Okay.

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So, um, 2 truths and a lie 1st.

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Um, so I am from Birmingham, Alabama.

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Um, that is absolutely true.

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I'm not lying about that.

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I'm from Birmingham and Michael Jordan.

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Um, when I was, uh, I don't know,

below maybe 15 or something.

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Um, stopped playing for the Birmingham,

I'm sorry, stopped playing for the,

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uh, Chicago Bulls and started playing

baseball for the Birmingham Barons.

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And so I was at the first game,

uh, that he hit a home run.

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I actually caught the home run ball.

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Number two.

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My daughter was born in the front seat

of my Forerunner while driving to the

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hospital to have her at a hospital.

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And number three is I was the first

person on Earth to hold a camera

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that had just been brought down from

the International Space Station.

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Becca Moran: Wow.

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All of those are kind of wild.

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Um.

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Okay.

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At first I thought the, the first

one was gonna be like a sports

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trivia question, and I was like,

why are you doing this to me

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But, um, that one feels

the most like a lie to me.

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Hunter Guerin: Um, so the

catching Michael Jordan's Yeah.

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Run.

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Yeah.

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You are correct.

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Um, yes, I was at the

game, but I did not, wow.

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I did not catch the home run.

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You

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Becca Moran: know, and that was kind

of my thought or it was like, what are

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the chances that you would catch that?

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Oh, you're good.

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I thought maybe the gotcha would

be that Katie actually gave birth

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in the backseat of your car.

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Cause I do kind of remember that story

and I was like, was that the one little

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Hunter Guerin: tweak?

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But yeah, I thought, I thought about

making that tweak, but, um, cause I think,

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yeah, you knew the story of the car birth.

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Becca Moran: Infamous, um, that's amazing.

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Okay.

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I kind of went like a similar, I think

these are all going to feel very true.

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Um, all right.

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Number one, I have a British passport.

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Number two, I can speak

with a British accent.

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Number three, I was born in Italy.

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Hunter Guerin: Okay.

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I absolutely know you can speak

with a British accent cause I

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heard it and it is hilarious.

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Um, born in Italy.

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Uh, you know, I think I'm going

to put that one as, as the lie.

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Cause I thought you were born in Alaska.

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Becca Moran: Good try.

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Um, I was in fact born in Italy.

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Uh, my dad was stationed at

the air force base there.

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Uh, the lie is that I don't

have a British passport.

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Hunter Guerin: Yeah.

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That, that's tough.

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Becca Moran: I know.

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It, it was kind of hiding in plain sight.

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You'd think.

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Yeah.

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British accent.

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British passport.

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Hunter Guerin: I thought it was.

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Yeah.

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Becca Moran: That's your religion.

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Maybe, maybe I'll get one.

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But, uh, no.

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Um, well, you know, I feel like even

though we've been friends for a while,

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we're always learning something new.

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Hunter Guerin: We're in Italy.

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We're in Italy.

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Becca Moran: Um, so I was born in a

place called Porta Noni, um, which is

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near, uh, my data station at Aviano Air

Force Base, which is like Northern Italy.

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Um, yeah, we went back as a family

when I was like a little kid and I

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only like, all I remember is, um, Like

having gelato and thinking this is the

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best ice cream in the entire world.

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Like, what, what is this?

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Um, but yeah, yeah, pretty cool.

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Um, all right, well, let's get into,

uh, kind of the heart of the matter

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why we're here today to talk about.

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Your unique journey into product.

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Um, I love this story.

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When I was thinking about who I wanted

on the show, I thought of you right away.

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I thought you would be such a great guest.

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And, um, I'm excited not only to talk

about how you got into product, but then.

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Um, have your path to becoming

an entrepreneur as well.

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So, um, so let's start at the beginning.

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Um, so in talking about how you ended

up joining Xometry as a product manager,

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let's rewind a little bit from there.

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Where were you just before that?

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What were you doing before

you interviewed at Xometry?

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Hunter Guerin: Yeah.

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So, uh, this goes, uh,

with my third truth.

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Um, I was a mechanical engineer

for an aerospace and defense, um,

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contractor for a little over nine years.

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Um, and that, that particular

story, um, the company had made

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a, a unit, um, electronics unit

that flew on the international

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space station before I got there.

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And, uh, kind of early on, I did

a lot of work in clean rooms.

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Um, I did.

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Analysis, uh, mechanical and structural

and thermal, um, was kind of the

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main job, but this, this touches

on some probably later questions,

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but I really enjoyed the physical.

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Uh, like, working with the physical

parts, as opposed to the CAD

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model, or in in sort of analysis

world, which is all theoretical.

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So any chance I had to go into

a clean room and, like, touch a.

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Piece of hardware I would and so I just

went over with my boss to the place

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where they had brought this camera back.

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And we all were in their clean

room and somehow I started

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holding the box and they had to.

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They had to take like, pieces off of it in

order for them to get inside and get the

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data that they were trying to get was a

scientific instrument and I ended up just.

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Holding it.

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And then as soon as they took

like the support piece off,

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it was just like in my hands.

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So I was kind of holding this

electronics unit and everybody

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in the room just simultaneously

said, don't drop it quickly.

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Like, put it down.

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I was, uh, I was a mechanical engineer

doing structural and thermal analysis

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on, um, aerospace and space flight

and airborne electronics units.

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That's so crazy.

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Yeah, it was my only job.

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I worked there right out of college.

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I was, I got a mechanical engineering

degree from Clemson, um, and then

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immediately moved to DC and started

working for this company for, um, it

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was a great company and I loved it.

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Learned a ton every day.

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So I never really, um, needed

to go anywhere else because

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it was such a great job.

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So I've been there a little

over nine years, I believe.

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And so

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Becca Moran: during those nine years,

like, did you have a thought in the back

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of your mind that you were like, kind

of interested in tech, you know, or, or

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product specifically, um, were there any

kind of seeds of that during that time?

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Hunter Guerin: Yeah.

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Um, so I started that job in 2008.

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Um, and then I.

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My wife and I went to the Bahamas, um,

and I read a book on the beach there

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called, uh, the four hour work week

by Tim Ferris and immediately became

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obsessed with starting my own business.

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So 2012 is when, like, the,

the idea to start a business,

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um, kind of was planted in me.

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Um, and then around 2016, my

brother, um, took a job at, um,

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a startup in Silicon Valley, um,

he was the head of data science.

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And so I started hearing about software

businesses and then his stories

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and I started getting intrigued

with, uh, software businesses,

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but I actually had no idea what

product, um, product management was.

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So I had never while a mechanical

engineer, I didn't necessarily

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dream of becoming a product manager.

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I didn't know it existed.

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Um, I did.

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I was interested in software sales

because 1 thing I learned while being

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a mechanical engineer is I actually

loved to present to customers.

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I like to talk to customers and

I liked this sort of physical.

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Uh, work and so, um, you know, I

wanted I was interested in starting

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a business, but, you know, in terms

of, like, new experiences that I

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wanted to gain, I was interested in

sales and I was interested in, um.

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Yeah, software development in general,

um, the, the development practices

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and sort of this idea of, like,

trying things and crashing and trying

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it again and crashing really fast.

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And so, um, yeah, no.

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No idea what product management was,

which I think that that comes later in my

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story, but I was definitely interested in.

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Like software development businesses.

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Yeah.

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Becca Moran: And so how

did you stumble across

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Hunter Guerin: Xometry?

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So, um, about that time in 2016, I was,

became interested in software businesses.

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So I started talking to people

about, um, you know, what was

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out there and just learning more.

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And one of my friends actually had this,

um, relationship with this guy as kind

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of a unique, uh, way of her knowing him.

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Um, was at a VC firm that, um,

had invited this founder named

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Randy to a, um, to some event.

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I can't remember what it was, but so

she had like dealt with, with this,

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with this founder, um, for this VC firm.

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And then she also previously worked on

Capitol Hill and knew Andy because he had,

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had a, um, political, um, kind of history.

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And so she kind of knew this

guy and told me about this.

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Startup that was doing something,

you know, she didn't know a ton

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of the details, but it was doing

something for manufacturing and

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the mechanical engineering space.

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And so I was like, oh, cool, let

me, I'd love to connect with him.

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So, um.

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She connected us, and I really connected

with him because I was interested in.

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Talking to him about what it was

like to start a company and how

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he had those questions with his

wife and how he left, you know, a

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comfortable job to go start a business.

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He had actually started businesses before

that, but it was really a call to learn

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more about his entrepreneurial journey.

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I actually, at the time I had no

interest in, um, like jumping to Xometry.

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I just wanted to meet Randy.

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Um, so, um, once we got connected,

then that was sort of the beginning

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of the, of my journey to Xometry.

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Becca Moran: Yeah, I love that.

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And I think that like.

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Um, one thing I've heard from other guests

that I've had on the show and, and one

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thing that I've seen to be true in my

own experience is just like, so much can

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come from these just like, I don't know,

casual conversations and, and I think

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approaching your career with a sense of.

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Just natural curiosity and,

uh, hearing people's stories.

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And, you know, I, I think sometimes,

um, when, when a lot of what we're

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exposed to is kind of the, the same set

of like super success stories, right?

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Like how did Elon Musk get to where

he is or Jeff Bezos or whatever.

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Um, you forget that like, there's

people in our midst that have, uh,

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achieved incredible success and.

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Um, the path can just look so

different and, you know, um, what a

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cool opportunity to be able to just

have a conversation with someone

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like Randy and, and understand,

um, his story as an entrepreneur.

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So, yeah.

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That's super cool.

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So how,

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Hunter Guerin: go ahead.

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I was gonna say, this podcast is

called How I Got Hired, so I feel.

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Um, obligated to to sort of

share this is that, you know, of

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course, like, I've talked to many

people since getting that job.

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Um, I'd only had 1 job, so I was

no expert in getting a new job.

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Um, but I've from that experience and

then many, many future experiences.

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Learn the valuable lesson of if you

ask somebody for advice, they, this

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saying goes, if you ask somebody

for advice, they'll give you money.

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If you ask for money,

they give you advice.

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So, I mean, if you ask for advice,

they give you a job might be the

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situation with with the Randy.

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Um, yeah, that's, you know, if

anybody asks me how to get a job

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and product or talking about.

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How to, you know, I'm trying to figure

out where my passion is and, you

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know, I don't know what I want to do.

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And so I just find some people that are

doing cool things and ask them for advice.

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So how'd you get there?

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You know, and that will

start a snowball for sure.

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Yeah.

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Becca Moran: And that

in and of itself, right?

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Like part of being a good

product person is asking good

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questions and being curious.

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So like, it's kind of, you know,

a little bit meta, but like, Just

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by doing that, you're kind of

displaying the types of skills that

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make for a good product person.

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So, um, yeah, it kind

of comes full circle.

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So how did these conversations then

progress to, you know, Hey, you asked

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for advice, but here, how about a job?

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Hunter Guerin: Yeah.

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Uh, so I remember this like it was

yesterday, cause it's kind of funny.

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Um, so we connected in

: 2016

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And so I emailed Randy, um, and After

after getting connected, I said, you

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know, I'd love to meet, uh, but I'm

about to go on a sabbatical for 7 weeks.

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Um, so let me pay you when I get back.

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So, we finally, we were, I was going

to try to go into the office in

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Gaithersburg and meet him in person.

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That ended up, it didn't happen.

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We got on a phone call, um, and I

happened to be coming back from.

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I had done some work at NASA Goddard that

day, so I was like, where are you, Hunter?

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I was like, well, I'm just

coming back from NASA.

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It's kind of a surreal thing to

be able to say to somebody that.

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Runs a manufacturing business

that sort of, you know, targets

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aerospace defense customers.

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Um, but so, you know, I just sort of asked

him some of those questions, you know,

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I'm interested in, um, learning about

how you decided, uh, to, to make the job.

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And also, why did you start

this business in the DC area?

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You know, everybody, a lot of people

start startups out in Silicon Valley or

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whatever, some of these other known tech

hubs, uh, but he started this company and.

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Gaithersburg, Maryland.

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So, and, um, he eventually said,

you know, what's like, what's your,

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what's your purpose on this call?

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And I said, well, I'm

just trying to learn.

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: 00:18:24

Cause I, I'd love to one

day start a business.

314

: 00:18:26

Um, I think it's really interesting to

me, um, with a mechanical engineering

315

: 00:18:31

background, I am interested in

businesses that have a mechanical

316

: 00:18:39

or sort of, like I said earlier,

physical product, but they sell it.

317

: 00:18:45

Via e commerce platform, um,

that you're able to sort of, uh,

318

: 00:18:50

test and then make modifications

to the like physical product.

319

: 00:18:56

Um, I later, I think I later learned

that this process is called agile

320

: 00:18:59

software development, but it's

basically, you know, trying to.

321

: 00:19:04

Put out an MVP and, and

get feedback and update.

322

: 00:19:07

And then also since we live in this

digital world, we're able to, you know,

323

: 00:19:12

sort of create, figure out quickly

whether there's demand for this product.

324

: 00:19:16

So at the time I was creating landing

pages and these like simple Google ads

325

: 00:19:21

to drive traffic towards these various

products that I was messing around with.

326

: 00:19:25

Um, and I guess, you know, we can

go deeper into some of that stuff,

327

: 00:19:29

but I was sort of explaining.

328

: 00:19:31

Those things and that I was

really customer focused.

329

: 00:19:33

I learned that, um, you know,

as a mechanical engineer, you

330

: 00:19:37

have to be very detail oriented.

331

: 00:19:38

And a lot of times you can get

kind of siloed into a specific

332

: 00:19:43

piece of a bigger system.

333

: 00:19:44

And I always was really interested in the

larger system and talking to customers

334

: 00:19:49

about it and hearing their needs and

presenting what we had built to them

335

: 00:19:53

and answering questions, et cetera.

336

: 00:19:54

So he said, you know, well, um.

337

: 00:19:57

There's this job called product

manager, and this gets to, like, how

338

: 00:20:00

I learned about product management

and, uh, we're, I think we're

339

: 00:20:04

looking for somebody, um, right now.

340

: 00:20:06

And you've, you know, you're a

mechanical engineer, and, um, it might

341

: 00:20:09

be something that you'd be interested in.

342

: 00:20:12

And if you send me your resume, I'll

shoot it over to the right people and

343

: 00:20:15

we can kind of take it from there.

344

: 00:20:17

So, uh, that was basically

my intro to product.

345

: 00:20:20

And, uh, and then I send my resume and.

346

: 00:20:22

Okay.

347

: 00:20:24

And then, uh, did you mention,

I think, okay, did you ask

348

: 00:20:28

about the interview or not yet?

349

: 00:20:30

No, that

350

: 00:20:31

Becca Moran: was kind of my next question.

351

: 00:20:32

Just kind of, but I was just smiling,

thinking about like Randy being

352

: 00:20:38

the person to introduce you to the

concept of, of product management.

353

: 00:20:43

Uh, but that's awesome that, you know,

he heard what you were saying and kind

354

: 00:20:48

of connected the dots and realize that

that would be such a great way for you

355

: 00:20:55

to learn a lot of those things that

you were describing and, and maybe at

356

: 00:20:59

that point didn't even really have like

the vocabulary to, um, you know, like

357

: 00:21:05

communicate in a succinct way, but, um,

to kind of hear that and say like, Oh,

358

: 00:21:11

maybe give this product thing a try.

359

: 00:21:12

That's pretty cool.

360

: 00:21:13

Yeah,

361

: 00:21:15

Hunter Guerin: you actually

reminded me of something.

362

: 00:21:17

Um, again, How I Got Hired,

uh, I was thinking about the

363

: 00:21:22

funny thing is on that call.

364

: 00:21:25

I'm talking to Randy

about starting a business.

365

: 00:21:27

I think 1 of the 1st

things he said as well.

366

: 00:21:28

If you want to start a business,

you definitely can't take 7 weeks

367

: 00:21:30

off going to Argentina and I say,

well, that's why I did it before.

368

: 00:21:35

Um, but the other thing about

getting hired, I think is.

369

: 00:21:40

Yeah.

370

: 00:21:41

He, in that conversation, I don't

think he asked me anything really

371

: 00:21:44

about what I did professionally.

372

: 00:21:47

Uh, I mean, he knew I was

a mechanical engineer.

373

: 00:21:49

He knew I was coming home from NASA.

374

: 00:21:51

Um, but, uh, it was that vacation.

375

: 00:21:55

I think that like potentially

made me sound like somebody worth,

376

: 00:22:01

or at a minimum, just it's stuck

in, out in his mind about this.

377

: 00:22:07

Random guy who called him that had

just gotten back from Argentina.

378

: 00:22:11

Um, and, you know, I was thinking about,

like, somebody says this, but that, like,

379

: 00:22:17

a lot of times when you're interviewing,

like, a sabbatical or, like, a crazy

380

: 00:22:21

trip is something worth putting on your

resume because the person, the people

381

: 00:22:24

you're talking to might become more

interested in that trip than they are in,

382

: 00:22:27

like, what you've done professionally.

383

: 00:22:29

So.

384

: 00:22:30

Um, that's sort of my plug to say,

don't be afraid to sort of, like,

385

: 00:22:34

highlight some weird, like, funny

things about you in your resume so

386

: 00:22:40

that you stand out additionally to

the, you know, accomplishments you've.

387

: 00:22:45

You've had in the past, but

388

: 00:22:46

Becca Moran: yeah, well, and on that note

to, you know, I, um, this is potentially

389

: 00:22:51

a topic for a whole nother discussion,

but I feel like you have always been a

390

: 00:22:57

really strong advocate for sabbaticals.

391

: 00:23:01

And I remember, um, at Xometry kind

of when you were gearing up to go on

392

: 00:23:07

the sabbatical then, uh, you know,

When you had first mentioned the idea

393

: 00:23:12

to me, I was like, Oh, my God, like,

you can't just go on a sabbatical.

394

: 00:23:16

Like, how do you and you were just like.

395

: 00:23:19

Well, just ask like, you know, like I

think so many people just don't even like

396

: 00:23:26

talk themselves out of it immediately.

397

: 00:23:29

And I remember that conversation

and thinking like, yeah, good point.

398

: 00:23:33

Like why not just ask and, and,

you know, I think you've always

399

: 00:23:37

been very thoughtful in presenting,

you know, a, a good case for it.

400

: 00:23:43

Right.

401

: 00:23:43

Kind of like, here's, here's

how I'm going to make sure that.

402

: 00:23:46

My work is covered and that it's

not disruptive to the business and,

403

: 00:23:51

um, you know, all of these things.

404

: 00:23:53

And, uh, you know, I, I think there's

certainly this kind of theme in your

405

: 00:23:58

career where these sabbaticals have

been really transformative for you and.

406

: 00:24:04

Um, yeah, I think you're, you're,

uh, I consider you at least a bit

407

: 00:24:09

of a thought leader in that regard.

408

: 00:24:11

Hunter Guerin: Awesome.

409

: 00:24:12

I like to hear that.

410

: 00:24:14

When you interview me on how

I took a sabbatical podcast,

411

: 00:24:18

Becca Moran: we'll go in deeper on that.

412

: 00:24:20

Um, okay.

413

: 00:24:21

So you.

414

: 00:24:24

Randi says, Hey, maybe think

about this whole product thing.

415

: 00:24:29

And then we had an opening at the time

you came in and interviewed what, what

416

: 00:24:34

was that process like preparing for

an interview for a job that You didn't

417

: 00:24:39

know it was a thing not that long ago.

418

: 00:24:43

Hunter Guerin: Yeah, I, you know, um,

well, the first thing that I did, um,

419

: 00:24:49

probably even before getting the invite

to interview is I was, I'd become

420

: 00:24:55

interested in geometry and I was kind

of curious what it was all about.

421

: 00:24:58

So we were working on, um.

422

: 00:25:01

Something at the time, and I was

designing this fairly, um, simple part

423

: 00:25:08

that was not sort of mission critical.

424

: 00:25:11

Um, so it was, it was not super expensive.

425

: 00:25:14

Um, and in engineering companies,

a lot of times, like, and many

426

: 00:25:20

procurement companies, um.

427

: 00:25:22

If if something's over, like,

: 2000

428

: 00:25:25

purchasing department and you have

to get multiple bids and everything.

429

: 00:25:27

But if you're just making a little, like,

prototype, or trying to make something

430

: 00:25:32

for a test fixture, which is actually

what I was doing, um, you can the engineer

431

: 00:25:36

can submit requests to manufacturers

and then basically purchase it and so.

432

: 00:25:44

I needed to manufacture this thing

and I said, well, let me give a try.

433

: 00:25:48

So, um, real quick for, um,

anyone listening is a on demand

434

: 00:25:55

marketplace for custom manufacturing

and you could upload a CAD file.

435

: 00:25:59

It would generate a predicted price

to manufacture and and, um, the lead

436

: 00:26:05

time and the price to manufacture.

437

: 00:26:06

And then, um, it spits out a

price and you can just buy online.

438

: 00:26:11

Yeah.

439

: 00:26:11

And so this

440

: 00:26:12

Becca Moran: was pretty revolutionary

because the historical process for

441

: 00:26:16

doing so would involve like turning your

CAD file, which is kind of a 3D design

442

: 00:26:22

rendering into a 2 dimensional like PDF

drawing and then sending that drawing

443

: 00:26:27

to a bunch of machine shops and then.

444

: 00:26:30

They give you prices back

and you don't know really how

445

: 00:26:32

they came up with that price.

446

: 00:26:33

It can be wildly different.

447

: 00:26:35

And there's just a lot of back and forth.

448

: 00:26:36

It's a very antiquated process.

449

: 00:26:38

And so if you imagine, um, you know,

for, for Xometry, this experience

450

: 00:26:43

that Hunter's describing, uploading

a file and knowing Instantaneously,

451

: 00:26:50

what it could cost you to have that

manufactured was a pretty big deal.

452

: 00:26:53

Yeah,

453

: 00:26:54

Hunter Guerin: exactly.

454

: 00:26:54

And, and when I was doing this, um,

at the time you, it was, it was fairly

455

: 00:26:59

common to, for a few companies out there

for you to be able to upload a CAD file

456

: 00:27:04

and get the price to print 3D print,

because That's super fairly simple.

457

: 00:27:09

It's just volume of material.

458

: 00:27:11

Plus like the time it takes

the printer to print it.

459

: 00:27:13

So it's fairly easy formula.

460

: 00:27:15

The sort of revolutionary thing I think

at the time for Xometry was that they

461

: 00:27:18

were doing that, but for CNC machining.

462

: 00:27:21

And so I actually thought just

through the experience and using the

463

: 00:27:23

website that Xometry was basically

just a really optimized machine

464

: 00:27:27

shop in Gaithersburg, Maryland.

465

: 00:27:29

That allowed you to upload CAD

files and get a price and then

466

: 00:27:32

you would buy and they would make

it and they would ship it to you.

467

: 00:27:34

That was sort of my impression.

468

: 00:27:35

Um, when I first did the test.

469

: 00:27:37

So, as an engineer, um, you know, I had a

couple of things that I was interested in.

470

: 00:27:43

Number 1 is, like, making

sure that it was going to be a

471

: 00:27:45

reputable seller, um, manufacturer.

472

: 00:27:48

If I was going to, if I was going

to then kind of push that design

473

: 00:27:52

or that quote onto procurement

and say, hey, can I buy this?

474

: 00:27:57

Um, you know, I needed to be

sure it was, was going to work.

475

: 00:27:59

So going through the process, I was

attempting to generate, um, an output

476

: 00:28:05

from Xometry's app that I could share

with our procurement and my boss.

477

: 00:28:10

Um, and so I had, I had some interesting

sort of, uh, struggles through the

478

: 00:28:16

process and we ended up not buying.

479

: 00:28:19

The thing, so unfortunately, at the time,

I didn't have the, like, start to finish

480

: 00:28:23

experience of symmetry, but then I think

looking at, like, the job description,

481

: 00:28:27

you know, it's like, understand customer

requirements, um, and solve problems

482

: 00:28:33

that people don't even know they have

and, uh, manage a list of, uh, features,

483

: 00:28:39

um, in a road map, you know, so it was.

484

: 00:28:42

Looking at the job description

at the time, I was a mechanical

485

: 00:28:44

engineer, so I like to say that

I was like a hardware product

486

: 00:28:47

developer, um, and or product manager.

487

: 00:28:50

And then all of a sudden I was looking

to go into software product management.

488

: 00:28:53

So I was able to link those 2 together

and come up with sort of like, here's

489

: 00:28:58

how I approach, um, the process

of creating, uh, something from

490

: 00:29:04

scratch or defining a specification.

491

: 00:29:06

That's that was that was really big.

492

: 00:29:08

Um, and then.

493

: 00:29:10

Mm hmm.

494

: 00:29:11

Yeah, so preparing for the interview,

um, just sort of matching that

495

: 00:29:16

mechanical engineering experience

to product management experience.

496

: 00:29:19

And then also, I think

that there was a question.

497

: 00:29:21

I either got access to it before

the interview, or they asked

498

: 00:29:23

me in the interview, but it was

what, like, what app do you use?

499

: 00:29:28

I think this is pretty

common management question.

500

: 00:29:30

What app do you use and love?

501

: 00:29:32

And like, tell us why, and then

what would you do to change

502

: 00:29:35

it and make it better, etc.

503

: 00:29:37

So I sort of prepared that.

504

: 00:29:39

Wait, what app did you talk about?

505

: 00:29:42

I talked about Jewel, which is

an app from ChefSteps, and it

506

: 00:29:46

controls a at home sous vide stick.

507

: 00:29:49

Oh, yes!

508

: 00:29:52

And I love that app.

509

: 00:29:53

I still love it to this day.

510

: 00:29:54

Um, and the thing that bothered

me is, for some reason, if you The

511

: 00:29:59

jewel doesn't have a power button.

512

: 00:30:01

So you basically just like

plug it in and unplug it.

513

: 00:30:03

And if you unplug it without turning it

off via the app, the next time you log in,

514

: 00:30:07

you get this weird alert warning message.

515

: 00:30:10

That's like, Julie didn't turn off

correctly and there's wifi issues.

516

: 00:30:15

And I never actually figured out how

to, how to get that to not show up.

517

: 00:30:20

And so that was the thing that I was

going to change is somehow to help the

518

: 00:30:22

user figure out why they're getting

this error message, but I don't know

519

: 00:30:26

that that was the best answer, um,

for that interview question, but.

520

: 00:30:31

Becca Moran: But I mean, I think

just having thought about that, and

521

: 00:30:34

I think it's good advice for anyone,

um, going into a product interview

522

: 00:30:39

that like a very common thing to

ask about is like, what are some

523

: 00:30:45

of your experiences with products?

524

: 00:30:48

And like, let's unpack that.

525

: 00:30:50

Right.

526

: 00:30:50

And so, um, you know, I think that's a

question that you can answer off the cuff.

527

: 00:30:57

Um, you know, Fairly well, but it is

something that's nice if you anticipate

528

: 00:31:02

it and you can think through, well,

what's a good example of something that

529

: 00:31:06

I use and love and I could give some

thoughtful reasons why and what are some

530

: 00:31:12

things that I would change about it and

why, like, that's just kind of some basic

531

: 00:31:17

stuff, but to be prepared with that kind

of answer, I, I would have to assume I

532

: 00:31:23

know Having been a part of a number of

product manager interviews, we almost

533

: 00:31:28

always ask a question like that, right?

534

: 00:31:30

Because it's, you want to just get

the basics of like, how does somebody

535

: 00:31:36

think about the products that they

use and opportunities for improvement?

536

: 00:31:42

And then, then it's kind of a whole

nother thing to like, you know, a lot of

537

: 00:31:47

the, the product role, and I'd love to

get into this topic a little bit more.

538

: 00:31:51

A lot of the product role is.

539

: 00:31:54

Not using your own personal experience,

but understanding different kind of

540

: 00:32:02

person's experience and anticipating

what they might want or need.

541

: 00:32:08

Um, and so this is something that

I've always thought was interesting

542

: 00:32:13

with your background where.

543

: 00:32:15

You know, in a lot of ways, you, there

were probably lots of times where

544

: 00:32:20

you could kind of reference your own

experience and you're not imagining,

545

: 00:32:24

Oh, what, what does a mechanical

engineer need in this situation?

546

: 00:32:28

You actually know, because you

were a mechanical engineer.

547

: 00:32:32

So, um, my question for you is like

reflecting on that, like, how do you

548

: 00:32:39

think that helped you in your role

at Xometry to be able to reference

549

: 00:32:43

your own personal experience?

550

: 00:32:45

And were there ever times where you felt

Potentially, like, limited by that or that

551

: 00:32:50

that created a challenge in and of itself.

552

: 00:32:53

Hunter Guerin: Yeah, for sure.

553

: 00:32:54

Um, I, you know, through that process

of using the app, I basically, I didn't

554

: 00:32:58

do it at the time, but I identified,

you know, 5 to 10 things that I would

555

: 00:33:03

do to sort of up the instant quoting

platform, which is what I ended up

556

: 00:33:08

becoming the product manager for.

557

: 00:33:10

Um, and, uh, I ended up doing basically

Or I ended up sort of creating the

558

: 00:33:17

feature stories and working development

team to release features that were,

559

: 00:33:23

you know, updates to the system that

I was sort of wanting to to make.

560

: 00:33:28

So out of this list of 5 to

10 things, I ended up, um.

561

: 00:33:32

Working through all of them, and then it

became like, well, what next, you know,

562

: 00:33:37

and that's when I think, um, what really

always impressed me is that Xometry

563

: 00:33:42

didn't have at least in product and,

uh, marketing, um, software developers.

564

: 00:33:48

Um, data scientists, you know, the sort of

like teams that I worked with a lot, there

565

: 00:33:54

weren't very many, if any people that had

experience as a mechanical engineer or,

566

: 00:34:01

um, uh, you know, manufacturing parts, um,

there were plenty of mechanical engineers,

567

: 00:34:07

it's on the tree on the operations team,

but on kind of in our domain, there.

568

: 00:34:14

It was a lot of sort of non experts,

and I certainly was not an expert, but a

569

: 00:34:18

lot of people that that knew very little

about, uh, when coming into theometry

570

: 00:34:23

about the whole sort of market that we

were serving, but I was so impressed

571

: 00:34:28

with how basically people that have no

idea about mechanical engineering and

572

: 00:34:34

like what mechanical engineers may need.

573

: 00:34:36

Uh, then coming in and learning

through talking to customers and

574

: 00:34:40

reading, uh, you know, content on

the Internet, asking questions.

575

: 00:34:46

And so, um, I was sort of inspired by a

lot of that to, to try to take this sort

576

: 00:34:53

of like beginner, you know, beginner eyes,

or I think that's what, what's called,

577

: 00:34:57

uh, you know, first principles, you know,

dial it back to say, okay, let's, let's

578

: 00:35:03

pretend that like, I don't know anything

about this and just try to learn through.

579

: 00:35:07

Through talking to people, um, I

think it definitely helped in a lot of

580

: 00:35:10

conversations, but I also think it, you

know, probably limited me, um, in, in,

581

: 00:35:15

um, certain ways of not being able to see

what I, you know, didn't already know.

582

: 00:35:21

I was just, I was just saying like,

when I think one thing with software

583

: 00:35:26

development and startups is a lot of

times something is not possible today,

584

: 00:35:33

but then tomorrow some update to the app.

585

: 00:35:37

Releases and all of a sudden

that thing that wasn't possible

586

: 00:35:39

yesterday is possible today.

587

: 00:35:41

And if you come back to ideas,

sometimes it's easy to say, well, we

588

: 00:35:47

can't do that because of X, Y, and Z.

589

: 00:35:49

And then the person asking kind of looks

into it's like, well, actually, like,

590

: 00:35:53

why not, you know, or why can't we do it

or and all of a sudden it's like, well,

591

: 00:35:57

uh, and you're sort of defending this.

592

: 00:36:00

I tried, we tried, but it didn't work.

593

: 00:36:02

And so, you know, now it will never work.

594

: 00:36:05

And um, unlearning that, like,

that things that didn't work in

595

: 00:36:09

the past will continue to not work.

596

: 00:36:11

It's like totally bogus in software

597

: 00:36:14

Becca Moran: development.

598

: 00:36:15

We talk about that all the time.

599

: 00:36:17

Like there's so many things that

we have tried that didn't work

600

: 00:36:20

and it's, it's hard to like It's

a natural reaction to be like, Oh,

601

: 00:36:26

well, we tried it and it didn't work.

602

: 00:36:28

So it would be a waste

of time to try it again.

603

: 00:36:31

But to your point, like oftentimes these

are things that we tried years ago.

604

: 00:36:35

The business is entirely different

now, like the way we might approach

605

: 00:36:39

it could be totally different.

606

: 00:36:41

So like, yeah, that's something that is,

uh, a bit of a mantra within procurated.

607

: 00:36:46

Now it's just like not to write

something off because we tried

608

: 00:36:50

it one time and it didn't work.

609

: 00:36:52

Um, It's you never know kind of what new

perspective might allow something to work.

610

: 00:36:59

Um, and I think the other point that you

made that is interesting, and I've seen

611

: 00:37:04

in my experience is, um, yes, Xometry

had a number of people internally that

612

: 00:37:12

had some good experience in terms of.

613

: 00:37:16

Mechanical engineering and things

like that, where, um, I always felt

614

: 00:37:21

very lucky to be able to, like,

you know, call up someone on the

615

: 00:37:26

operations team and ask a question.

616

: 00:37:28

And, um, I think that's.

617

: 00:37:31

It can be super helpful.

618

: 00:37:33

Um, it's also, it can become a

bit of a crutch sometimes, right?

619

: 00:37:38

Where like, if you feel like you work

with people that are a proxy for your

620

: 00:37:44

user, you might not actually pick up

the phone and call your real users.

621

: 00:37:49

And, and you can get a little bit of

a warped perspective because You feel

622

: 00:37:55

like you're getting user feedback,

but you're still talking to people

623

: 00:37:59

that are like a part of your bubble.

624

: 00:38:01

Um, and we have the same challenge

of procurator too, right?

625

: 00:38:05

Like, we've got some people that have

had careers in government procurement,

626

: 00:38:10

and it's incredibly helpful to have

that subject matter expertise in

627

: 00:38:14

house, but we also have to remember

that like, those people may not be

628

: 00:38:20

Like perfectly representative of

the opinions of our users in mass

629

: 00:38:26

and so really remembering to, like,

leverage that but not let that be

630

: 00:38:33

everything is, I think, super important.

631

: 00:38:38

Yeah, um, so you, you come in, you do

this interview, you, you talk about

632

: 00:38:46

this app, um, and you get the role.

633

: 00:38:50

Um, and you have this great career at

Xometry and you move up, um, could you

634

: 00:38:56

share a little bit about just kind of

like what, what your role was when you

635

: 00:39:02

started, how things evolved and just

like a little bit of just the quick

636

: 00:39:06

story of like your career path during

your, your four and a half years at

637

: 00:39:11

Hunter Guerin: Xometry.

638

: 00:39:12

Yeah, um, so I, um, the, the, the

interview, um, story that I'd like to

639

: 00:39:19

share that's, um, that's related to the

last thing we were talking about is, you

640

: 00:39:24

know, having having past experience with

the market or product or whatever it is

641

: 00:39:29

you're, you're working on is can be, you

know, you can have blinders and tunnel

642

: 00:39:34

vision sometimes because your opinion

is, um, If you value your own opinion a

643

: 00:39:39

ton, then you can use the app and then

make decisions based on your own opinion,

644

: 00:39:44

which doesn't work as a product manager.

645

: 00:39:46

But I think it's also really

important to use, especially if you're

646

: 00:39:50

interviewing for product is to use the

product in some way, shape, or form.

647

: 00:39:53

Sometimes, obviously that's not possible.

648

: 00:39:54

If it's like an enterprise software

or something, you need a business

649

: 00:39:57

account, but if you can create

a account and use the thing.

650

: 00:40:02

I think it's super valuable and so in

the middle of the interview, I think

651

: 00:40:04

1 of the questions was, have you ever

led a project where you've like, been

652

: 00:40:09

in charge of finding the manufacturer

and and getting quotes and et cetera?

653

: 00:40:13

And I said, yeah, actually, um,

I'm doing something similar.

654

: 00:40:16

It's it's not necessarily,

um, a manufacturing process.

655

: 00:40:20

It's a fabrication process,

but also I used on a.

656

: 00:40:25

Past project.

657

: 00:40:25

I use the Xometry app to buy a part and

we ended up not buying the part from

658

: 00:40:30

Xometry and I was like, that's just like.

659

: 00:40:34

One, but like, I'd, I'd be happy to

share my input as to why we didn't buy.

660

: 00:40:37

And both the, the head of product

and the CTO were like, oh yes, yes.

661

: 00:40:42

Tell us more . So, so I then proceeded

to like basically point out all the

662

: 00:40:45

negative things that I found in the app.

663

: 00:40:48

Um, and I was like, this

is, this is terrible idea.

664

: 00:40:50

What am I doing?

665

: 00:40:51

Come in here, trash the product, . And

so I think that like, that was

666

: 00:40:55

actually, you know, I feel like

in, in hindsight, I wanna say I

667

: 00:40:59

heard that like until that point.

668

: 00:41:02

I was not necessarily

going to get the job.

669

: 00:41:05

So my new advice in interviewing

for product is to just use the

670

: 00:41:08

product and tell them all the

things you would change about it.

671

: 00:41:11

But I guess that gets to that

question about, like, or what

672

: 00:41:13

did you, what did you like?

673

: 00:41:14

And what would you change?

674

: 00:41:15

So, um, because of that conversation,

I think I was placed on the, um.

675

: 00:41:22

The instant quoting engine,

I was the product manager for

676

: 00:41:25

the instant quoting engine.

677

: 00:41:26

Um, and that was the customer facing

platform that allowed engineers to

678

: 00:41:31

upload and and procurement officers, um,

purchasers, anybody that needed to buy a.

679

: 00:41:39

A physical part using a CAD model would

create an account, log in and upload to

680

: 00:41:45

this platform, change the requirements

based on the needs of the part and

681

: 00:41:49

then go to checkout and purchase.

682

: 00:41:51

And so I became the product

manager of that product.

683

: 00:41:54

And then I don't know what it was.

684

: 00:41:58

Except that, you know, a lot of times

product management teams, um, and

685

: 00:42:03

startup structures are pretty flat.

686

: 00:42:05

And so you, you might have like, um,

somebody leading product and then just

687

: 00:42:09

a bunch of product managers underneath.

688

: 00:42:11

And that's the way I

think I works really well.

689

: 00:42:13

And I think that's the way it should be.

690

: 00:42:15

But at the same time.

691

: 00:42:17

Um, the one cool thing about startups

is like, a lot of times job titles are

692

: 00:42:22

just sort of like nefarious, you know,

maybe the pay is good at a startup,

693

: 00:42:26

but they can give you a job title.

694

: 00:42:28

Um, and I think I had heard something

like, you know, if you're not working

695

: 00:42:32

with military folks, um, you know, they,

a lot of times in certain roles, they

696

: 00:42:37

move on after 2 years, like they can never

work the same job for more than 2 years.

697

: 00:42:41

And that's, I think that's

part of the government's, um.

698

: 00:42:44

Yeah, methodology, but basically,

you know, I'd heard something like if

699

: 00:42:49

you're not progressing in, uh, in your

role every year, every two years or

700

: 00:42:54

something, then you're, you're stagnating.

701

: 00:42:58

Um, we didn't have any of

these like other roles.

702

: 00:43:01

And so I think when, when, uh, you know,

I was loving working at Xometry, I will,

703

: 00:43:07

I was Having a ton of fun and I wanted

as much sort of impact as possible.

704

: 00:43:13

And so I think after a while, I, I

think I came to you and I basically

705

: 00:43:19

presented this, um, document.

706

: 00:43:21

I think actually the, the base

of the document was something

707

: 00:43:25

my wife gave me from a previous

conversation she had, where she

708

: 00:43:28

was asking for more responsibility.

709

: 00:43:31

And, uh, I have to brush off

the dust on that thing, but I

710

: 00:43:34

believe it was a letter to you.

711

: 00:43:37

Then.

712

: 00:43:38

Um, and it ends with I'm interested

in taking more responsibility.

713

: 00:43:42

Um, if let me know your thoughts and if

you'd be willing to support that before

714

: 00:43:47

you do anything else, um, if you, if you,

if you would be interested in talking

715

: 00:43:51

to me about it, that'd be really cool.

716

: 00:43:52

I think you said, sure.

717

: 00:43:53

I said, well, I haven't had a chance

to get all my thoughts together, but

718

: 00:43:56

I'll follow up in a couple of days.

719

: 00:43:58

Uh, with what I'm taking and then

the follow up was was a letter.

720

: 00:44:01

It was the proposed job description.

721

: 00:44:05

It was, um, then a list of things that I

had accomplished over the past 12 months.

722

: 00:44:14

And then my approach to how I would,

I would take on this new role.

723

: 00:44:18

Um, and so I was.

724

: 00:44:22

Promoted at the time to this

new role called a senior product

725

: 00:44:25

manager, um, which existed elsewhere.

726

: 00:44:28

It just didn't exist at the time.

727

: 00:44:30

Um, and then similar.

728

: 00:44:32

Um, I think.

729

: 00:44:34

A little later, um, I, you know, once

again, just like, just like I did as

730

: 00:44:38

a mechanical engineer, it had sort

of free products at the time, which

731

: 00:44:42

is basically like the instant coding

engine, the, the internal system

732

: 00:44:45

that managed all the orders and then

the external job board that the.

733

: 00:44:49

Manufacturers were using and

anything that we did on the instant

734

: 00:44:53

quoting engine and I think this

is an important skill for product

735

: 00:44:58

managers in mechanical engineering.

736

: 00:44:59

They call it a systems engineer.

737

: 00:45:01

And it's like, if you change

something on the, uh, customer

738

: 00:45:05

facing app, how does that percolate?

739

: 00:45:08

Or propagate through

the rest of the system.

740

: 00:45:11

And so a lot of times I would work with

the ERP team and then the job board team

741

: 00:45:17

to make sure that the things that we

were doing on the instant coding engine

742

: 00:45:20

propagated through the whole system.

743

: 00:45:22

And I think later on, we

would say, no, the, like, the

744

: 00:45:25

responsibility of integrating

that falls on the different teams.

745

: 00:45:29

And then that was, you know, an

interesting exercise to try to coordinate

746

: 00:45:33

a single product across multiple

product teams and multiple disciplines.

747

: 00:45:36

But, um, I, I was interested in, you

know, all of these different platforms.

748

: 00:45:44

I loved the partner platform.

749

: 00:45:47

I think we called it the

job board at the time.

750

: 00:45:48

Um, and I was interested in

helping out there if I could.

751

: 00:45:53

Um, and then we started

working on a new product.

752

: 00:45:57

Um.

753

: 00:45:59

Actually, I guess, additional to the

Instant Coding Engine, we had CAD add

754

: 00:46:03

ons for SolidWorks and then eventually

we had one for Inventor, which is the

755

: 00:46:07

platform I used as a mechanical engineer.

756

: 00:46:10

Um, and so we had these like

multiple apps, uh, multiple add ons.

757

: 00:46:14

Kind

758

: 00:46:14

Becca Moran: of

759

: 00:46:14

Hunter Guerin: like integration.

760

: 00:46:16

Yeah, it was like, how can an

engineer use Xometry's platform

761

: 00:46:19

within their CAD software?

762

: 00:46:21

And so I manage those as well.

763

: 00:46:24

And so, um, we were sort of growing

our product suite on the customer side.

764

: 00:46:29

And, um, you know, I, I, at the

time I was very interested in

765

: 00:46:34

getting management experience.

766

: 00:46:35

That was something I was sort of.

767

: 00:46:37

Obsessed with from like day one.

768

: 00:46:39

The thing about actually talking

to my brother, the data scientist

769

: 00:46:42

about product management, and he's

like, product management school,

770

: 00:46:43

because you get to manage, but

you don't have to manage people.

771

: 00:46:46

Um, I think I later learned what

he actually meant by that, but

772

: 00:46:50

I kept wanting to manage people.

773

: 00:46:51

And so I was trying to sort of figure

out how I could maybe manage multiple

774

: 00:46:55

products with product managers, um,

who managed the product, but then

775

: 00:47:01

I was sort of the system level.

776

: 00:47:04

Person and those kind of rolled up and

so I ended up, um, finishing as a group

777

: 00:47:09

product manager, which is exactly that

role of a couple different things.

778

: 00:47:15

But yeah, that's so yeah,

779

: 00:47:17

Becca Moran: that's awesome.

780

: 00:47:17

And I think it kind of

illustrates just how the needs

781

: 00:47:21

of an organization can change.

782

: 00:47:23

Right?

783

: 00:47:24

So, like, when you join

Xometry, I think we were.

784

: 00:47:28

It was like right before we

closed our series a, um, we

785

: 00:47:32

were maybe 40 or 50 employees.

786

: 00:47:37

Um, and to your point, like as these

companies grow and as the products grow,

787

: 00:47:44

there's just a level of complexity.

788

: 00:47:46

And I think that creates.

789

: 00:47:48

A lot of interesting opportunities for

product people and, and, um, you know,

790

: 00:47:54

as someone who can kind of grow with the

company and with the product itself, um,

791

: 00:48:01

I think it's really smart, you know, the

way you kind of zeroed in on like, Hey, I,

792

: 00:48:05

I like this kind of systems thinking and,

and looking across our entire platform

793

: 00:48:09

and, Understanding the interconnectedness

and and thinking about it holistically,

794

: 00:48:14

and how can I leverage that in the role?

795

: 00:48:17

Um, you know, I think that's a

common need that emerges as a lot of

796

: 00:48:22

these companies grow and become more

797

: 00:48:25

Hunter Guerin: complex.

798

: 00:48:25

Yeah, and, um, I think that that story

sort of reminded me of something actually

799

: 00:48:31

just at this exercise a couple days ago.

800

: 00:48:33

It's called the 10 10 10 exercise.

801

: 00:48:36

Um, and the, the, the, the framing

of why I'm talking about this story

802

: 00:48:41

is that one of the things I learned

through this process is the importance

803

: 00:48:45

of, you know, if you're going to sort

of present a, a new role for yourself

804

: 00:48:52

to an organization, you have to really

think about how it improves the company.

805

: 00:48:57

Like, nobody really wants to care

that you want more responsibility.

806

: 00:49:01

Right.

807

: 00:49:01

If we do this, then it

simplifies your life.

808

: 00:49:04

Whoever your boss is, it simplifies your

life and it's better for the company

809

: 00:49:08

because X, Y, and Z and, you know, the,

the, it's difficult to go up to somebody

810

: 00:49:15

and say, hey, I want more responsibility.

811

: 00:49:16

I want a new job title.

812

: 00:49:18

I want to continue to move up.

813

: 00:49:20

And so anytime you have a

difficult conversation looming,

814

: 00:49:24

you could do this exercise.

815

: 00:49:26

The 10, 10, 10 exercise.

816

: 00:49:27

And it is, if I have this conversation

or I do this thing, I'm thinking of, how

817

: 00:49:32

am I going to feel in the next 10 hours?

818

: 00:49:34

A lot of times it's like nervous, scared,

anxious, excited, proud of myself, etc.

819

: 00:49:39

Then how am I going to

feel in the next 10 months?

820

: 00:49:41

So basically a year.

821

: 00:49:43

And then how am I going to

feel in the next 10 years?

822

: 00:49:46

And I didn't do it at the time for

these conversations, but the really

823

: 00:49:49

cool thing about that exercise is that

you, you basically say your feelings

824

: 00:49:55

and other, other things, how's,

how's it going to affect my family?

825

: 00:49:57

How's it going to affect my health and

whatever else you're interested in.

826

: 00:50:01

And you give it basically a plus or

minus, and you can kind of quickly see

827

: 00:50:05

how, how this decision is either likely

really going to help you in the long

828

: 00:50:10

term, or it's not, or this exercise

doesn't actually answer your question.

829

: 00:50:15

So maybe you need more information before

having the conversation or whatever, but

830

: 00:50:19

once you have that, it gives you this

road map to having that conversation

831

: 00:50:23

and in thinking about this example.

832

: 00:50:26

You know, again, we didn't necessarily

have this conversation, but if

833

: 00:50:29

you're going, like, if I'm, if I'm

coming to you, I think that document

834

: 00:50:32

helped, but it's like, hey, I think,

uh, you know, I'm loving life here.

835

: 00:50:36

I want more responsibility.

836

: 00:50:38

I want to keep learning and growing, but

also, um, if, you know, if I do this, then

837

: 00:50:46

that we're able to have effectively more

product managers without the team growing.

838

: 00:50:52

So, you know, the, the budget

doesn't have to change.

839

: 00:50:54

Um, because if I'm willing to take on

three different products, um, and I

840

: 00:50:59

think I can handle it doing X, Y, and Z.

841

: 00:51:01

So the, you know, we can grow our

whatever without necessarily growing

842

: 00:51:06

the team or whatever the case cases.

843

: 00:51:09

It's a good, it's a good way to

walk through that conversation.

844

: 00:51:13

Becca Moran: Yeah, I, I remember that

document and I feel like I have, um,

845

: 00:51:18

wanted to like refer back to it at times

to like help give guidance to other

846

: 00:51:23

people that I've worked with on like,

Hey, if you, you know, want to move

847

: 00:51:27

up within the organization, like this

is a good kind of framework to use.

848

: 00:51:31

And I, I do think that being

proactive, thinking about what the

849

: 00:51:36

business needs, I think is huge.

850

: 00:51:38

A lot of people, I think.

851

: 00:51:40

Do you get a little too caught up

in like, well, what do I want to do?

852

: 00:51:44

And what you want is to find the

overlap of like, what do you want to do?

853

: 00:51:47

And what does the

organization actually need?

854

: 00:51:49

And that's the sweet spot.

855

: 00:51:52

Hunter Guerin: Yeah.

856

: 00:51:52

And also the last thing on that is when

you're talking to your boss or, you know,

857

: 00:51:56

sort of learn this with any negotiation

is, um, you want the other person to feel.

858

: 00:52:01

Involved and like sort

of the hero of the story.

859

: 00:52:03

So like a good framing of the question

is, Hey, I'm interested in X, Y, and Z.

860

: 00:52:08

Is this something you'd be

willing to talk to me about?

861

: 00:52:10

And, or is this something you'd

be willing to like help me with?

862

: 00:52:13

And then you go through the process.

863

: 00:52:14

Okay.

864

: 00:52:14

How are we going?

865

: 00:52:15

How are we going to present this

to the team or to management?

866

: 00:52:19

And then all of a sudden your

boss becomes the, we, and

867

: 00:52:22

potentially the hero of the story.

868

: 00:52:24

And it's more about them, you know,

helping you than it is about you asking

869

: 00:52:31

for some promotion or, or whatnot.

870

: 00:52:33

So, uh, yeah, trying to, trying to

get other people on board before you

871

: 00:52:36

even come out with this, like, here's

my new job and here's the X, Y, Z, a

872

: 00:52:42

conversation you're even willing to

have and get the buy in help me with.

873

: 00:52:45

Yeah, so, yeah,

874

: 00:52:46

Becca Moran: totally agree.

875

: 00:52:48

Um, well, I love that.

876

: 00:52:50

I love reflecting back kind of on

that journey that you had at Dometry

877

: 00:52:54

and the success you had there.

878

: 00:52:56

Um, I know we're, we're running a

little bit long, but I would like

879

: 00:52:59

to make sure that we spend a little

bit of time talking about your

880

: 00:53:03

transition into, I find it funny to

say becoming an entrepreneur because I.

881

: 00:53:09

Think that you've been an

entrepreneur all along, right?

882

: 00:53:11

That's clear from how I

think you think about things.

883

: 00:53:15

And there's a thread of that

throughout this entire story.

884

: 00:53:17

But, um, you know, I would love if you

could share a little bit of the, uh, kind

885

: 00:53:23

of quick story of how you decided to.

886

: 00:53:27

You know, what sparked the idea for

LLAMAWOOD and how you decided to kind

887

: 00:53:32

of take the leap and, and build this

business that you've been building

888

: 00:53:35

for what, last two and a half years, a

889

: 00:53:37

Hunter Guerin: little over two years.

890

: 00:53:38

Um, so I loved the Xometry

sort of model, um, because.

891

: 00:53:46

The, the, the benefit that you could bring

to a marketplace, the efficiency you could

892

: 00:53:51

bring to a marketplace by connecting a

buyer with a seller and then managing the

893

: 00:53:55

transaction and fulfillment all within

a platform, it's, it's, it just was.

894

: 00:54:02

I, you know, like, say it was genius.

895

: 00:54:04

Um, I actually, like, would ask Randy,

like, how did you think of this?

896

: 00:54:08

This is so smart.

897

: 00:54:09

Um, and I remember feeling like, man,

if somebody, like, if Randy can come

898

: 00:54:14

up with this idea, um, apparently off

the cuff, no, that's not actually how

899

: 00:54:20

it happened, but, I was like, who am

I to, like, Think of, I can start a

900

: 00:54:24

business because this idea is so beyond

anything I would have ever imagined.

901

: 00:54:28

And, uh, I was just so impressed with

it, but because of the value that it

902

: 00:54:32

brought the partner network, I remember

specifically this event that happened.

903

: 00:54:38

Um, I don't remember the year, but

a hurricane or tornado hit Texas, I

904

: 00:54:42

believe, and it just like demolished

one of our suppliers and a couple

905

: 00:54:47

of things Xometry was able to do.

906

: 00:54:49

There's number one is all of

the jobs that had been matched.

907

: 00:54:52

That supplier got, were

able to get routed out.

908

: 00:54:55

And so the, the customers

ended up getting their parts.

909

: 00:54:58

And then I believe we did a

GoFundMe campaign for that, uh, that

910

: 00:55:03

partner and every other partner in

the network, like, um, you know,

911

: 00:55:08

contributed to the rebuilding of this.

912

: 00:55:10

And that was the moment where I was

like, Oh, this is so cool because not

913

: 00:55:14

only is this platform bringing jobs

to this network, but it's also like

914

: 00:55:18

created this giant manufacturing family.

915

: 00:55:20

Um, and that's a little bit

like altruistic, but I just was.

916

: 00:55:27

With that sort of like, I want to start

a company mindset, I kept applying this

917

: 00:55:31

idea to a bunch of different industries.

918

: 00:55:33

And that is how do you connect

buyers again through a platform to

919

: 00:55:38

a distributed network of sellers

who can provide capacity on demand,

920

: 00:55:42

elastic capacity, which is really

important because certain things get.

921

: 00:55:47

In high demand at some points and

low demand and other points, uh,

922

: 00:55:52

I can think of one firewood, um,

but, uh, so I thought, well, we

923

: 00:55:58

could, I could start a landscape

business with a network of sellers.

924

: 00:56:03

I could, what about, um, home building?

925

: 00:56:06

Um, and then I had heard this somewhere.

926

: 00:56:09

Um, I often attribute

it to the wrong person.

927

: 00:56:11

So I'll just.

928

: 00:56:13

Is that if when you think about starting

a business, look at your credit card

929

: 00:56:16

statement and figure out where you spend

a disproportionate amount of your income.

930

: 00:56:20

And so I was doing that and I never

really like highlighted anything as.

931

: 00:56:26

Oh, this is the thing.

932

: 00:56:27

Um, and it was mortgage and dining out.

933

: 00:56:31

And I think that that disproportionate.

934

: 00:56:33

No, because a lot of people spend a lot

of money on mortgage and dining out.

935

: 00:56:36

Um, but this, this thing about

I, everywhere I went, every house

936

: 00:56:40

that I went into, whether it was my

house or somebody else's, I would.

937

: 00:56:44

Pay whatever I needed to pay

to make sure I could have wood

938

: 00:56:47

burning fires inside and outside.

939

: 00:56:50

Um, and so I'd spent a lot of

money on all things related to

940

: 00:56:54

firewood, um, and then fires.

941

: 00:56:57

And so that sort of helped me realize

that, like, it's got to be something

942

: 00:57:02

about fire and then we lived in D.

943

: 00:57:06

C.

944

: 00:57:06

with.

945

: 00:57:07

Neighbors of you, Becca.

946

: 00:57:08

And then in 2000, um, in the middle of

COVID, we decided to move to Richmond

947

: 00:57:14

and, um, we got to Richmond and it was.

948

: 00:57:18

It was, we moved in July of 2020.

949

: 00:57:20

And so the fall is coming up

and I want to buy firewood.

950

: 00:57:24

I just know that Richmond's gonna,

it's going to be way easier to buy

951

: 00:57:26

firewood in Richmond than it was in DC.

952

: 00:57:29

And I went through the process, the

standard process of finding a guy,

953

: 00:57:33

texting him, they tell you it's seasoned,

they come over, they drop it off.

954

: 00:57:38

Um, You have to pay them in cash.

955

: 00:57:41

This guy actually took Venmo, but

like, as he was leaving, I Venmoed him.

956

: 00:57:45

And then you have to put in the last

four digits of their phone number.

957

: 00:57:47

I'm like, wait, um, I have,

I have since mailed checks.

958

: 00:57:51

I mean, firewood buying firewood is

it was, I just hoped it was better

959

: 00:57:57

in Richmond than it was in DC.

960

: 00:57:58

And sure enough, it was

like the exact same thing.

961

: 00:58:00

And I think it was in that moment when

that delivery sort of was botched and

962

: 00:58:04

the wood was wet and it was too big.

963

: 00:58:06

I needed to split it with

an axe, which is a pain.

964

: 00:58:08

I think I had a, yeah, I had like a

1 and a half year old at the time.

965

: 00:58:11

I didn't, I was anytime they

were, they were not in my arms.

966

: 00:58:17

I wanted to be like, sitting

on a couch or something.

967

: 00:58:19

So, um.

968

: 00:58:20

I said, that's it, I am going to, what

could I build a network of firewood

969

: 00:58:26

sellers and build a platform that

connected buyers with that network?

970

: 00:58:30

And then really the, the key there

is that you then use technology to

971

: 00:58:34

manage the quality of the seller.

972

: 00:58:36

And since, since this idea of Xometry

and, and my business is that it's a

973

: 00:58:40

managed marketplace, it, it connects.

974

: 00:58:43

The orders with the sellers that are

most qualified to perform the delivery.

975

: 00:58:46

And 1 of the things that goes

into that is this is the rating

976

: 00:58:49

based on their past performance.

977

: 00:58:51

And so the cream rises to the top.

978

: 00:58:53

Eventually, you only start delivery,

sending jobs to the best suppliers.

979

: 00:58:57

Um, and so I can provide a, like, a

quality standard and, um, a consistency

980

: 00:59:03

to firewood delivery that, like, in my

experience, which was buying firewood and.

981

: 00:59:08

Across 5 different states, um, uh, that

consistency was really hard to find and,

982

: 00:59:14

um, reliability was really hard to find.

983

: 00:59:16

So that's kind of how it sparked

the, uh, the, the company I

984

: 00:59:20

started, which is called Lama wood.

985

: 00:59:21

That's

986

: 00:59:22

Becca Moran: awesome.

987

: 00:59:23

And I'm sure, uh, hopefully there'll be

an opportunity to do a whole episode in

988

: 00:59:28

and of itself on the lava wood story.

989

: 00:59:30

But the 1 question.

990

: 00:59:32

Um, I wanted to ask just kind

of to to close things out is.

991

: 00:59:38

And kind of bring it back to our

conversation about, um, your career in

992

: 00:59:44

product, like what product experience

do you feel like helped you feel

993

: 00:59:50

confident in starting your own business?

994

: 00:59:52

Like what are you thankful that

you learned as a product manager

995

: 00:59:56

that you've Been able to put into

use starting your own business.

996

: 01:00:00

Hunter Guerin: Um, I think the biggest

thing is that as a product person, again,

997

: 01:00:04

regardless of the product you manage, um,

you, you, you sort of necessitates the

998

: 01:00:11

system level thinking to where you have

to learn about how your product impacts.

999

: 01:00:17

Every aspect of the business,

marketing, sales, operations,

: 1000

01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:22,210

finance, admin, it doesn't matter.

: 1001

01:00:22,220 --> 01:00:24,140

You're probably talking to one of those.

: 1002

01:00:24,170 --> 01:00:28,410

I think I had, I think like at one

point, every person on the C suite was a

: 1003

01:00:28,590 --> 01:00:29,740

stakeholder of the Instant Quoting Engine.

: 1004

01:00:30,340 --> 01:00:34,680

And so you get a, especially if you

go, if you do product to a small

: 1005

01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:38,010

company or startup, you're going to

get a ton of experience really fast.

: 1006

01:00:38,420 --> 01:00:44,930

But now that I've started a business,

um, I think the 2 critical things,

: 1007

01:00:45,350 --> 01:00:50,310

especially early on, why Combinator

says this, and I think many others is

: 1008

01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:56,600

that as a founder or CEO of a company

early on, the 2 things that you need to

: 1009

01:00:56,600 --> 01:01:00,500

focus on, because there's a million, 2

things, building the product and selling.

: 1010

01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:03,350

So you have to learn how to build

and you have to learn how to sell.

: 1011

01:01:03,785 --> 01:01:08,765

And basically both, both of those

things is the like quintessential

: 1012

01:01:08,945 --> 01:01:10,595

job requirement of a product manager.

: 1013

01:01:10,605 --> 01:01:14,165

You have to figure out

what the customers want.

: 1014

01:01:15,055 --> 01:01:18,915

Come up with the vision for how that

is going to be built and then you

: 1015

01:01:18,915 --> 01:01:20,325

have to sell it to all these people.

: 1016

01:01:20,405 --> 01:01:26,055

Um, because, you know, sometimes,

uh, what operations wants sales, you

: 1017

01:01:26,055 --> 01:01:31,335

know, operations wants, you know,

a smoother flow sales wants more.

: 1018

01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:37,460

Orders marketing wants more sessions,

um, and and top of funnel customers

: 1019

01:01:37,460 --> 01:01:38,640

landing on the site or whatever.

: 1020

01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:46,240

So, um, you have to negotiate and and work

with all these different disciplines to

: 1021

01:01:46,300 --> 01:01:49,510

to sell this vision of a greater future.

: 1022

01:01:49,570 --> 01:01:50,990

Um, and so I think that.

: 1023

01:01:51,515 --> 01:01:56,315

Being able to build something and sell it

sort of at the same time, you know, that

: 1024

01:01:56,315 --> 01:02:00,314

whole, like jump out of a plane without

a parachute and get out on the way down.

: 1025

01:02:00,395 --> 01:02:01,925

Um, it kind of happens.

: 1026

01:02:01,935 --> 01:02:06,075

And then you've touched on it

too, is like this, a huge thing.

: 1027

01:02:06,075 --> 01:02:08,975

Like you just can't build a business

without talking to customers and

: 1028

01:02:08,985 --> 01:02:10,255

understanding what they truly want.

: 1029

01:02:10,785 --> 01:02:14,655

Um, because I think what's the saying

that like 80 percent of products that

: 1030

01:02:14,665 --> 01:02:16,255

get launched, don't, don't get used.

: 1031

01:02:16,545 --> 01:02:16,975

So.

: 1032

01:02:17,510 --> 01:02:21,490

You can, you can think of a million

features for an app, but you know, in

: 1033

01:02:21,490 --> 01:02:24,070

order to know which one you need to

build next, you have to talk to a lot

: 1034

01:02:24,070 --> 01:02:29,200

of people, um, whether you're looking at

like, whether the, the talking is looking

: 1035

01:02:29,230 --> 01:02:34,860

over user data, um, or actually speaking

with the internal team, talking to the

: 1036

01:02:34,870 --> 01:02:40,990

external customer, um, but picking up the

phone and calling customers constantly.

: 1037

01:02:41,430 --> 01:02:43,410

Um, that too is.

: 1038

01:02:44,180 --> 01:02:49,010

Is, um, you know, a huge necessity

as a product manager and even

: 1039

01:02:49,010 --> 01:02:52,970

more so as you're trying to build

something, um, and selling it.

: 1040

01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:55,730

So you learn as a product manager,

you learn how to build and sell.

: 1041

01:02:55,730 --> 01:02:56,880

And those are the two biggest skills.

: 1042

01:02:56,880 --> 01:03:00,430

And actually they say that

selling is harder than building.

: 1043

01:03:00,470 --> 01:03:03,230

So if you have to be good at one

of them, get good at selling.

: 1044

01:03:03,790 --> 01:03:04,210

Yeah.

: 1045

01:03:04,340 --> 01:03:07,970

So, um, you get a lot of

practice with that as a product.

: 1046

01:03:08,030 --> 01:03:08,490

Yeah.

: 1047

01:03:08,790 --> 01:03:10,010

Becca Moran: It's such a good point.

: 1048

01:03:10,010 --> 01:03:16,335

And I think it's sometimes, uh, an

element of the product role that At

: 1049

01:03:16,335 --> 01:03:20,545

least from personal experience, I would

say you can kind of resent, right?

: 1050

01:03:20,545 --> 01:03:22,705

Like sometimes you're just

like, I have this idea.

: 1051

01:03:22,705 --> 01:03:25,045

Why doesn't everybody just

like go along with it?

: 1052

01:03:25,045 --> 01:03:25,315

Right.

: 1053

01:03:25,315 --> 01:03:27,985

Like this is my job to do this stuff.

: 1054

01:03:28,005 --> 01:03:28,245

Like,

: 1055

01:03:28,855 --> 01:03:32,805

Hunter Guerin: um, something you said,

I don't know if you remember saying

: 1056

01:03:32,805 --> 01:03:34,285

it, but I laugh at it all the time.

: 1057

01:03:34,285 --> 01:03:35,485

I think about it constantly.

: 1058

01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:39,860

Is, uh, you said that the job of

a product manager is to gently

: 1059

01:03:39,860 --> 01:03:41,230

disappoint people all day long.

: 1060

01:03:41,230 --> 01:03:42,429

It

: 1061

01:03:42,710 --> 01:03:48,280

Becca Moran: is like, you have to just

get so comfortable with telling people

: 1062

01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:56,125

no, or just kind of like redirecting

them to different ideas or Um, yes, uh,

: 1063

01:03:56,235 --> 01:04:03,745

I, I stand by that statement, but yeah,

the sales part is hard, um, and it can

: 1064

01:04:03,745 --> 01:04:09,445

be hard, especially depending on kind of

the dynamics in the organization in which

: 1065

01:04:09,445 --> 01:04:14,875

you're working, where, um, you can be

faced with a lot of strong opinions and.

: 1066

01:04:15,295 --> 01:04:20,055

Um, sometimes it's, it's hard to convince

people of, of an idea that you feel

: 1067

01:04:20,075 --> 01:04:26,045

confident about, but, um, to your point,

like, I, I hope that anyone who is

: 1068

01:04:26,045 --> 01:04:31,365

experiencing that and maybe frustrated by

that in their product roles, um, tries to

: 1069

01:04:31,365 --> 01:04:36,345

remember that it is such a valuable skill,

no matter what you do in your career.

: 1070

01:04:36,815 --> 01:04:47,475

Um, and, um, those character, so, um,

all right, well, I'm going to shorten

: 1071

01:04:47,485 --> 01:04:55,825

our rapid fire wrap up questions to

just one, um, which I, I am curious

: 1072

01:04:55,825 --> 01:05:02,075

to hear your answer cause I feel

like you are a, um, you're always

: 1073

01:05:02,135 --> 01:05:05,675

kind of reading something interesting

or talking to someone interesting.

: 1074

01:05:05,705 --> 01:05:05,935

So.

: 1075

01:05:06,285 --> 01:05:09,755

My question for you is, what

book or person has been most

: 1076

01:05:09,845 --> 01:05:11,525

influential in your career?

: 1077

01:05:11,965 --> 01:05:12,175

In

: 1078

01:05:12,175 --> 01:05:13,115

Hunter Guerin: my career?

: 1079

01:05:14,575 --> 01:05:19,555

I had, I was ready for most recently,

but in my career I'm also ready

: 1080

01:05:19,555 --> 01:05:24,765

for, and uh, if you know me, you've

heard me say it, um, Tim Ferriss.

: 1081

01:05:26,565 --> 01:05:29,015

Becca Moran: I noticed you referenced

him, like, right at the beginning.

: 1082

01:05:29,015 --> 01:05:29,145

At

: 1083

01:05:29,325 --> 01:05:32,435

Hunter Guerin: least, yeah, I think my

brother says if you talk to Hunter and

: 1084

01:05:32,815 --> 01:05:37,205

he hasn't mentioned Tim Ferriss within

the first 10 seconds, it's an anomaly.

: 1085

01:05:37,475 --> 01:05:41,900

But, yeah, the 4 hour work

week is incredible read.

: 1086

01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:46,160

And, um, it, you know, I

think it's super popular.

: 1087

01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:49,470

So hopefully a lot of people reading

or hearing this, uh, have already read

: 1088

01:05:49,470 --> 01:05:53,650

it, but there's another thing is like,

I don't always evangelize that book.

: 1089

01:05:53,860 --> 01:06:00,090

Um, because the, the title for our work

week is sounds kind of cliche or whatever.

: 1090

01:06:00,730 --> 01:06:02,590

And that's not the point of the book.

: 1091

01:06:02,610 --> 01:06:06,000

The point of the book is to figure

out how to spend your time on

: 1092

01:06:06,060 --> 01:06:08,400

things that are uh, effective.

: 1093

01:06:09,355 --> 01:06:11,654

Rather than, you know,

trying to be efficient.

: 1094

01:06:11,755 --> 01:06:17,835

Um, I think like product management,

this is huge entrepreneurial, uh, paths.

: 1095

01:06:17,885 --> 01:06:18,665

This is huge.

: 1096

01:06:18,685 --> 01:06:19,165

Is that.

: 1097

01:06:20,190 --> 01:06:23,779

You can constantly have things

to do on your to do list.

: 1098

01:06:24,260 --> 01:06:27,450

And, and you know, one thing I've learned

is the more productive you are, the

: 1099

01:06:27,450 --> 01:06:30,650

more things that you put on your to do

list, like your to do list will never

: 1100

01:06:31,100 --> 01:06:32,900

get shorter, no matter what you try.

: 1101

01:06:32,900 --> 01:06:33,720

And I've tried it all.

: 1102

01:06:33,980 --> 01:06:40,920

And so figuring out the very few things

that you need to do, you know, the, the

: 1103

01:06:41,190 --> 01:06:43,100

critical few versus the trivial many.

: 1104

01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:47,040

And a major principle actually just

did an exercise like two days ago.

: 1105

01:06:47,820 --> 01:06:51,620

Um, from that book is, is really

the kind of two core principles

: 1106

01:06:51,620 --> 01:06:53,250

of the 80, 20 principle.

: 1107

01:06:53,250 --> 01:06:57,430

And then the, uh, Pareto principle,

a 20 is that 20 percent of your,

: 1108

01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:01,570

um, output comes from 80%, I'm

sorry, 80 percent of your output

: 1109

01:07:01,590 --> 01:07:02,779

comes from 20 percent of your input.

: 1110

01:07:02,810 --> 01:07:05,170

80 percent of your revenue comes

from 20 percent of your products,

: 1111

01:07:05,170 --> 01:07:06,200

20 percent of your customers.

: 1112

01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:07,270

I mean, you can apply it to everything.

: 1113

01:07:07,550 --> 01:07:12,250

And then, um, and then Parkinson's law

is that work will expand based on the.

: 1114

01:07:12,740 --> 01:07:18,670

Time that you a lot, so setting clear

short deadlines, you know, if you have a,

: 1115

01:07:19,190 --> 01:07:22,850

uh, if you're going to be interviewed on a

podcast and you want to, you know, figure

: 1116

01:07:22,850 --> 01:07:26,470

out how you might answer some questions,

like give yourself like whatever, a

: 1117

01:07:26,470 --> 01:07:28,710

short amount of time to do, to do it.

: 1118

01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:31,840

And then you'll, you'll get it

done because if you give yourself

: 1119

01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:35,160

a longer amount of time, you know,

the work will fill the time a lot.

: 1120

01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:35,500

Yeah.

: 1121

01:07:35,770 --> 01:07:37,360

Uh, and so that.

: 1122

01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:42,779

That along with his podcasts and, you

know, the last thing that I'll say about,

: 1123

01:07:43,620 --> 01:07:49,670

uh, these books is that it, they have

the four hour work week and other, other

: 1124

01:07:49,670 --> 01:07:53,590

books of his and other business books

that I've read, if they have a playbook,

: 1125

01:07:53,670 --> 01:08:00,380

like do this, then this, then this,

um, I, that really resonates with me.

: 1126

01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:04,250

And in the 4 hour work week, there are

these things called comfort challenges.

: 1127

01:08:04,815 --> 01:08:08,335

Uh, that you do, and I've

done every single 1 of them.

: 1128

01:08:08,535 --> 01:08:13,175

And like, I always say, anytime I do

anything from this book, like, almost

: 1129

01:08:13,175 --> 01:08:15,345

exactly what he says will happen happens.

: 1130

01:08:16,774 --> 01:08:18,154

I had a problem early on.

: 1131

01:08:18,154 --> 01:08:19,965

Actually, I still do where I miss.

: 1132

01:08:20,205 --> 01:08:23,115

I take some of his advice out of order.

: 1133

01:08:23,175 --> 01:08:26,875

And so if you read before our

work week, he has a structure

: 1134

01:08:26,875 --> 01:08:28,484

for how you are going to.

: 1135

01:08:28,904 --> 01:08:32,635

Uh, become more productive

and free yourself to work on

: 1136

01:08:32,635 --> 01:08:35,225

the things you love and do the

things you love outside of work.

: 1137

01:08:35,484 --> 01:08:38,354

And so the last thing in the

book is to take a sabbatical or

: 1138

01:08:38,354 --> 01:08:39,585

he calls them mini retirements.

: 1139

01:08:39,745 --> 01:08:43,955

And I was like, ah, I'll just

skip the first three steps and

: 1140

01:08:43,955 --> 01:08:45,154

go straight to the sabbatical.

: 1141

01:08:45,925 --> 01:08:50,175

Um, but you know, he actually pointed

out and in another book, he mentions

: 1142

01:08:50,175 --> 01:08:53,005

in that book multiple times, this

book called vagabonding by Rolf Potts.

: 1143

01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:57,500

And it's that, like, taking these

long trips, you learn some of these

: 1144

01:08:57,559 --> 01:09:01,590

skills you learn and these things

that you acquire through travel will

: 1145

01:09:01,590 --> 01:09:05,399

have a bigger impact on your life

than whatever you would have done at

: 1146

01:09:05,399 --> 01:09:07,809

work for that same seven week period.

: 1147

01:09:08,069 --> 01:09:08,410

Absolutely.

: 1148

01:09:09,500 --> 01:09:17,460

And so that single book has launched me

into a unlimited number of future books

: 1149

01:09:17,510 --> 01:09:20,800

that are then recommended by people he's

interviewed on the podcast and whatnot.

: 1150

01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:23,290

So, um, hands down, Tim Ferriss.

: 1151

01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:25,240

Becca Moran: No surprise there.

: 1152

01:09:25,270 --> 01:09:26,069

I love it.

: 1153

01:09:26,330 --> 01:09:29,990

Um, I'm going to start thinking

about scheduling a sabbatical.

: 1154

01:09:31,660 --> 01:09:38,130

Hunter Guerin: I actually, uh, I have, uh,

I I've written out sort of a outline of.

: 1155

01:09:38,705 --> 01:09:42,725

Of the process from coming up with

the idea all the way to pulling it

: 1156

01:09:42,725 --> 01:09:47,215

off so I can share that with you

and also the document with my that I

: 1157

01:09:47,225 --> 01:09:48,765

shared with you when I was asking for.

: 1158

01:09:49,934 --> 01:09:50,505

new role.

: 1159

01:09:50,795 --> 01:09:51,975

Um, I can share that with you as well.

: 1160

01:09:52,415 --> 01:09:52,684

That'd be

: 1161

01:09:52,684 --> 01:09:53,175

Becca Moran: awesome.

: 1162

01:09:53,585 --> 01:09:53,934

Yeah.

: 1163

01:09:54,165 --> 01:09:54,655

Thank you.

: 1164

01:09:55,325 --> 01:09:56,885

So much good stuff today.

: 1165

01:09:56,934 --> 01:09:57,945

Thank you so much, Hunter.

: 1166

01:09:57,945 --> 01:10:02,184

I appreciate your time and I always

love your thoughts, your perspective,

: 1167

01:10:02,184 --> 01:10:04,275

your attitude, your energy, all of it.

: 1168

01:10:04,385 --> 01:10:06,575

So thank you for being on the show.

: 1169

01:10:06,675 --> 01:10:07,095

It was really

: 1170

01:10:07,095 --> 01:10:07,775

Hunter Guerin: fun talking to you.

: 1171

01:10:07,925 --> 01:10:08,785

Thanks for having me.

: 1172

01:10:08,805 --> 01:10:09,765

I had a blast.

: 1173

01:10:09,825 --> 01:10:12,965

Um, and would be happy

to come back anytime.

: 1174

01:10:13,585 --> 01:10:14,005

Awesome.

: 1175

01:10:34,815 --> 01:10:36,805

Tim Winkler: Calling all

startup technologists.

: 1176

01:10:36,975 --> 01:10:40,675

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podcast, but don't know where to start?

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Well, here's your chance to shine.

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We're thrilled to introduce Beyond

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and we want you to be a part of it.

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become a guest host right here

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