Examining Artistic Liberty in Bible Adaptations and Deep Dive into Joshua

In this engaging episode of the Daily Bible Podcast, Pastors PJ and Rod discuss the complexities and controversies of using artistic license in Bible adaptations, focusing on the new show 'House of David.' They critique the show's approach and compare it to other adaptations like 'The Chosen' and 'Veggie Tales,' deliberating over the acceptability and potential pitfalls of creative liberties in portraying biblical stories. They then transition to a detailed study of Joshua 12-15, discussing the historic conquests, tribal land divisions, and the unwavering faith of Caleb. The episode rounds off with reflections on the importance of wholehearted devotion to God and the implications of partial obedience.

00:00 Introduction and Banter

00:57 Discussion on 'House of David' Show

02:25 Artistic License in Biblical Media

06:02 Christian Liberty and Media Consumption

11:12 Transition to Bible Study

11:26 Joshua 12: Kings Defeated by Israelites

12:50 Joshua 13: Land Division East of Jordan

14:37 Joshua 14: Caleb's Inheritance

19:17 Joshua 15: Boundaries for Judah

20:24 Closing Remarks and Prayer

Find out more about Compass Bible Church.

Learn more about our Bible Reading Plan.

Questions or Comments? Email us podcast@compassntx.org

hey, and welcome back to another

edition of the Daily Bible Podcast.

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It's Wednesday.

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Wednesday.

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Yeah.

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Nope.

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Yeah.

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It is Wednesday.

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Normally I say that you

say something like hey.

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And then I say what day it is.

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Sorry to break rank different.

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Just cut my legs out for thought.

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D don't different even know

what I'm gonna say anymore.

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Alright, I'll take over from here.

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Okay, great.

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Go for it.

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Welcome back to another edition

of the Daily Bible Podcast.

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I'm Pastor PJ and I'm your

captain for this episode.

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I have abandoned the faith.

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I'm now driving a Subaru.

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And I voted for Hillary there.

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What are you gonna do about that?

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It does sound like me.

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That does sound like something I would

say up until the point where you started

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talking about I've abandoned the faith and

I drive a Subaru and I voted for Hillary.

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I would never, besides that,

I would never drive a Subaru.

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Why not?

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What do you have against Subarus?

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No, that I was going for I would

never do any of those three things.

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Yeah.

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That's make, okay, I gotcha.

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Yeah, just making a joke of it, emphasis

on the part of the joke in my mind.

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Got it.

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Yep.

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Okay.

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Nope, that's all right.

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That's all right.

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Hey, there's a new show out there

called David, or Life of David, or

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Life of David's Pie or something.

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House of that House of David.

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That's what I think.

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That's is.

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Let me just double check while you're.

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Talking about it, butchering it

and not clearly I'm betraying

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the fact that I haven't seen it.

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It is House of David.

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Okay.

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It's House of David and

it's available online.

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People can stream it.

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And it's Amazon Prime.

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Okay.

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You've seen an episode of it?

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I have seen an episode, that's correct.

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And I from, and which there are six,

from what I gather, this is meant

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to tell the story of King David.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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That's what it is.

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Okay.

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Somebody wrote in and they've watched,

I think more than either of us have

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watched, which you've watched more than

I've watched 'cause you've watched one.

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And they just made the comment, Hey, they

seem to enjoy the show for what it is.

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And then they stumbled across somebody

else who is a well-known Christian thinker

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and radio guy, podcaster radio guy out

there who really blew it up and blew it up

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hard and said this is wrong and decided a

bunch of different reasons why it's wrong.

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Some of the ideas of putting

unauthorized words in God's mouth.

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Introducing fiction into a factual

Bible misrepresenting historical

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figures and failing to point to Jesus.

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And that's where, let's just

start with that last point.

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Failing to point to Jesus.

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We have to get back to, okay, what

were the, what's the creator's

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intent here is the creator's intent

to show how David sets up Jesus.

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Maybe, but maybe also, maybe it,

it wasn't, maybe it was simply to

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tell the story of King David, but

when you go through some of the,

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those other ones yeah I do think

there's room for artistic liberty.

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Now y'all have heard me

talk about the chosen.

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I don't like the chosen because

the guy behind it Dallas is it Who?

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Willard?

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No, Dallas, Texas.

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Dallas Jenkins Close.

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Dallas Jenkins is the guy's name.

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Yeah.

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I don't.

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He plays fast and loose with doctrine and

Christianity and blurs the lines at best

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if we're gonna be charitable, he blurs the

lines between Christianity and Mormonism.

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If he doesn't full blown, embrace Mormons

as brothers and sisters in Christ.

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Which, that's why I look at something

like the chosen, I'm like, no I don't

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wanna touch it with a 10 foot pole.

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'cause I can't trust his artistic license

that he's gonna bring to the show.

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And so I, I don't need it.

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I'm not gonna watch it.

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That's where I'm at with that, with

this it never really crossed my mind

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as something that I was like, Hey,

let me turn that on and watch it.

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But we have artistic

license all over the place.

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There, there are commentaries that

sometimes will employ artistic license

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to help us understand what's going on

in a scene in scripture or if you ever.

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Put on the show Veggie Tales for your

Kids and let them watch Veggie Tale

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y You are seeing artistic license

interpretation that is being depicted

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with these cartoon vegetables marching

around and bowing down to a big

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chocolate bunny and things like that.

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Like artistic license does not

equal damnable heresy, in other

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words, is what I'm saying.

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We have to be very careful with it.

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And I think that's why, I don't know.

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I haven't seen the show.

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You've seen an episode.

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What was your take walking away from

watching an episode of the show?

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Of course I've got my bible radar on,

so I'm trying to see how closely they're

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trying to stick to the actual text.

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And of course they depart pretty quickly

at the very beginning, and that's what

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causes people to say this is clearly

not a show that Christian should watch.

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For those reasons and more,

it's a distortion of the text.

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I do think what you're saying

is probably what they would say.

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It's creative license and then

they offer a disclaimer at the

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beginning or the end of the show.

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I can't remember which side of it,

but they're trying to say, look,

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we're not taking this as a word for

word copy and paste into our script.

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They're taking creative license to.

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Embellish it to make it come alive,

not to detract it to, to detract

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from it, not to deny the sufficiency

of scripture, things like that.

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I guess the question that probably

most people have is there anything

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inherently wrong with taking a

chapter of the Bible and trying to

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add color to it in the mind's eye,

and maybe it is giving a character to.

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To the person of Moses or even imagining

what David might have looked like

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and his relationship to his brothers,

and why was he out in the field

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when his brothers were in the house

and he's the one tending the sheep.

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And of course on, on the totem

pole, that's pretty, pretty

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low ranking position to have.

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So is there anything wrong that you

would say based on your understanding

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of scripture, to have creative license

with understanding these people, these

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names, these places and these spaces?

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A again I think there's.

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There's degrees of that.

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We can go too far, we can assume too much.

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And we need to be careful and be humble

about our approach to artistic license.

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Yeah we, I, we do that in the pulpit.

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We'll talk about, we'll tell stories

in the pulpit and fill in some,

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gray areas in the pulpit, or not

gray areas but white space in the

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pulpit saying, this is, David's

left back probably because of this.

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And we can infer that because

when Jesse calls his sons to be.

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One of them to be anointed king.

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David's left out like Jesse's

not even thinking about him.

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So yeah, David's lowest on the totem pole.

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It's probably why he was in his ranking.

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You can use other parts of scripture

to help inform things, even though it

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doesn't explicitly make the connection

from one position to the other.

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So there's room for it.

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We just have to be careful that it

doesn't ever degrade God or blaspheme

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God, which again to blaspheme is to take

that which is high and exalted and bring

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it down low and treat it as common.

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So I think we need to just

be sure that we're not.

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Venturing into that realm when it

comes to how we're employing artistic

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liberty and creative license.

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It sounds like you're suggesting then

that creativity, artistic license is

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probably a moving target for people.

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Yes.

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And so while one Christian might

be able to watch House of David

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without any tinge of conscience,

another Christian would say, no way.

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Jose can't even entertain the idea

because it does the very thing that

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you're saying it should not do.

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In their minds, it does

lower God, it does.

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Cause other Christians to be misunder

misinformed and misunderstand the text.

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And for all those reasons, I

cannot partake of that TV show.

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Is this one of those areas of

Christian liberty where one

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Christian can say, you're clearly

mistaking the forest of the trees.

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This is wrong.

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Should never touch this.

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And another Christian says, brother,

I can enjoy this to the glory of God.

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This is fine.

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I don't think they're doing

anything nefarious or evil.

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I can enjoy this to the glory of God.

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Is that a fair thing

to put this show into?

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Yeah, I think so.

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As long as we're willing to listen

to one another in that context, as

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long as we're willing to listen to

the person that disagrees with us

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and listen to their arguments and

examine our heart to say, okay, do I

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need to shift my perspective on this?

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So that both ways.

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Both ways.

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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So I would just say one more caveat

and it's, if I can compare it.

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You guys didn't think you were gonna

hear me talk about Harry Potter when you

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flipped on the the podcast this morning?

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Heritage.

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Actually, you know what, I'll

talk about something more.

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Godly Lord of the Rings.

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Okay.

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It's redeemed in some ways.

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It can be like watching the

movies before you read the book.

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If you have watched the Lord of the Ring's

trilogy before you go and read the books,

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then you're watch, you're reading the

character that Tolkien wrote as Frodo.

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You're reading Elijah Wood Yeah.

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As that character.

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That's right.

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And that's what's in your mind.

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And you can't shake that because

you watch the movie and the movie

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forms your understanding of the book.

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And we need to be careful as Christians

not to allow that same thing to

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happen with things like this or things

like the chosen or anything else.

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When you're reading the gospels, if

you're seeing the guy from the chosen

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that plays Jesus as Jesus, then I, I.

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I would say, that's, I'd

be uncomfortable with that.

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I don't love that idea.

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And so I think we gotta be careful

not to watch the movie, so to speak,

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before we read the book, when it comes

to things like the David series or

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the chosen series, because these are

human interpretations and these are not

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infallible, and this is not an a, a.

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Full-blown representation

of what it was like.

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And granted, they admit that

up front and they're saying

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that's not what our goal is.

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But we need to be careful that this

does not degrade the quality of our

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interaction with God's word, because it

puts certain images, faces, interactions,

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voices, things like that in our minds

as we're now seeing Jesus as this

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human being that's really an actor.

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So it's the interpretation of the person.

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Of the text, which will influence

the way that someone sees the

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actual text that would concern you.

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So it's going through the human

person and saying, oh, I think Jesus

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would act like this, or, I think

Peter would act like this, or, I

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think David would act like this.

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And that's what you

would call problematic.

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It's not the medium in

and of itself, but there.

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Is a danger that you might start

looking at scripture through

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the lens of these actors versus

looking at scripture to the lens of

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scripture which is always the goal.

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We wanna read the Bible for what it

says, and this is why a lot of people

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even lay Christians will say, I wanna

learn the Greek and the Hebrew because

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I wanna get as close to the transmitted

medium as possible, which is fine.

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There's nothing wrong with that.

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English translations are generally

really good, but even those.

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Have interpretations, many of

them interpretations of what's

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being said and what's conveyed.

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We're trying to elucidate some of those

by telling you here's what the word is

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and here's how it can be translated.

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But that's a well taken point

and a good one to understand.

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Yeah.

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'cause Jonathan Rumi is a, is just a guy.

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And if now every time you read Jesus

preaching, you're hearing Jonathan

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Rumi's voice as Jesus preaching.

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Yeah.

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I'm, I mean it, as good as it can be.

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Yeah.

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As, and let's just say he's the best

Jesus to ever walk this planet, right?

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But Jim Kiesel might like a

word with him, which who knows?

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Depends.

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It just, to me, that degrades something

rather than the mystery of going, I

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don't have a voice in my head when I read

the scripture of Jesus words right now.

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And I'm not gonna approximate it as a

fallen human being, because what happens

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when, and I'm not saying it's gonna

happen, but what ha, what happens if

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Jonathan Rumi goes off the deep end?

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What happens if he comes out as an

apostate and so forth and so on.

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Now, you've still got Jonathan Ru.

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Me's voice as Jesus every time

you go and read the Bible.

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I it's a it may not, it may never happen.

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Lord willing, it doesn't happen.

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I just, I'd rather say I, I'm not even

gonna venture into that territory.

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David.

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Yeah, maybe that's a different story.

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I don't know that I would be

as bothered with a different

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voice in my mind for David.

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But when it comes to the son of God, and

let's leave that one to be discovered when

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we get face to face with him in eternity.

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Sice to say this is a tricky area

that requires great discernment and

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your discernment will be much improved

if you are a student of the word.

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Yep.

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Which is why we do this podcast

so that you don't watch.

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No, I'm just kidding.

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If you're gonna spend 20 minutes

somewhere, we'd like you to spend it here.

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Which by the way one show that

recently came on the radar.

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Yeah.

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Another bible show.

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It's called the Promised Land.

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Okay.

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It's meant to be, what

would you call those?

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It's like a reality TV

show that's scripted.

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What's that called?

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A mock mockumentary.

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Okay.

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Mockumentary.

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Okay.

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It actually is quite funny.

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Okay.

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I watched it.

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I think the first episode is on YouTube.

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I saw it.

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I don't know.

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YouTube recommended it to me.

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Yeah, it was.

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It was actually really funny.

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Okay.

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I enjoyed it.

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The Promised Land.

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Okay.

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Fair enough.

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Hey, let's jump into speaking

of the promised Land.

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This is a great transition.

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Let's jump into, I've been trying

to throw you feeding lines to

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get you to the text, Joshua.

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12 through 15, giving him 15.

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Alright, here we go.

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I grabbed it.

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You're okay.

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Anyways.

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Alright.

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Joshua 12.

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Joshua 12.

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This is a list of the kings defeated

by the Israelites, two by Moses

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on the east side of the Jordan.

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Remember that's Sahan and og.

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And then 31 by Joshua on

the west side of the Jordan.

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So this is just a going through

the laundry list of all the

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nations that were defeated.

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And remember again, this

was a historical book.

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We're now.

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In the history of Israel we're

no, no longer in the law.

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So this is the dual purpose of

being something that is inspired.

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It is for our instruction but it is also

the historical records for the people

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of Israel to know this is what it was.

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And this would've been immensely

encouraging for future generations

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to look back on this and say, okay,

this is all that God has done.

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This is the literary

version of the 12 Stones.

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That are set up.

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Once they come through the Jordan River

writing down these names of all of

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the nations, all of the kings that God

defeated would've been the same thing

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as the future generations are reading,

going, what are all these names about?

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Then the Israelite grandpas and dads and

moms and grandmas could say, these are all

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the kings that God defeated for us when

we came in and took the Promised land.

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Again, we've talked about this a couple

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king of Jerusalem is listed as one who

is defeated but not Jerusalem itself.

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This is the king.

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He was one of the five that went out to,

to make war on Gideon, and he was defeated

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in that context, but not Jerusalem itself.

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Jerusalem won't be taken until

much later, but Joshua chapter 12.

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Here's the kings.

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Joshua Chapter 13.

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Then as Joshua is nearing the end of his

life, the Lord told him of the land that

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still needed to be conquered, and he

instructed him to divide the land that was

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already possessed into tribal portions.

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So the rest of Chapter 13 contains

the record of dividing that land

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east of the Jordan to Ruben Gad

and the Half Tribe of Manassas.

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So this is the first of the

divisions, and this is, I don't know,

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pastor Rod, you and I were making

a comment before we even started.

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This is some.

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Some slower territory for

us to work through here.

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This is not the high ground of

the book of Proverbs where you're

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like, oh man, I'm grabbing so

many nuggets everywhere I look.

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It's so good.

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You've got this proverb, that

proverb just prepare for that.

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Still read carefully, read

thoroughly, read through it all.

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But just know we're getting into some

of the geographical outlay of what

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was gonna be each tribe's possession.

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And it starts here in chapter 13

with the two and a half tribes on

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the east side of the Jordan River.

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Yeah, and this will come back into

play a little bit later as we think

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about what God gave them and what was

promised and whether or not God actually

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fulfilled this promise to the degree

that he had promised them, or if there's

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still land to be acquired and therefore.

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That this promise for land

has not yet been fulfilled to

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the degree in which God said.

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So here we're gonna be looking

at these territories and

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asking ourselves a question.

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Even as we read.

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You may not be asking this question,

but you should be asking does this

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fulfill all that God promised?

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And part of Joshua is gonna say Yes, and

we'll look at that when we get there.

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But as good Bible students, we're

gonna have to ask, okay, is does

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this intend to communicate to us

that this promise is fulfilled?

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Period and not another

yet to be fulfilled.

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Promise.

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That still has present

tense reverberations.

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We'll see that when we get closer to it.

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But just, this is important.

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This is important for Israel, this

is important for our eschatology.

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I'd pay attention to it.

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Important for dispensationalism, right?

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Yeah, totally.

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Yeah.

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Joshua 14.

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Then before getting into the

land for the west side of the

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Jordan, Joshua fulfills a, a.

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Promise here, given by Moses to Caleb.

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So you remember Caleb was one

of the spies along with Joshua.

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They're the only two that are,

they're in the promised land

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from that first generation.

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And so the Lord had promised through

Moses to Caleb that he could have a

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portion of the land that he requested,

whatever land that he wanted there, and

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Caleb chooses a portion there in he.

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And this account continues actually

down in, in Joshua chapter 15 verses 13

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through 19, where Caleb gives Othniel

his daughter as a wife after he helps

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him drive out some of the inhabitants of

the land there in he chapter 14, Caleb

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is gonna be given his portion and we

pick up part of the story in chapter 15.

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'cause to get that portion, they

needed to drive out some of the.

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The Canaanites in the land.

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And Caleb offers his daughter an

oth Neil, who will show back up

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in the book of judges oth Neil

comes and says, I can do it.

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And he goes to battle on behalf of Caleb,

and he gets Caleb's daughter as a wife.

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So Joshua 14 slash part of

15 is this story of Caleb

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taking his possession there.

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Caleb's a boss two times.

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It says here in his little section,

because you have holy followed the Lord.

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My God says that here in verse nine.

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In verse 14, therefore, he run, became

the inheritance of Caleb, the son of Jah.

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The Kenza, to this day, because he wholly

followed the Lord, the God of Israel.

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And so I love this

description about somebody.

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It may be said about all of us that

our lives are a testimony that we

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are wholly following the Lord our

God, which suggests that there's a

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way to follow God that is partial.

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It's there, there's

something, but there is a.

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Half-hearted kind of commitment to

God that I guess, is tepid and maybe

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is even acceptable in our current

context, in our current culture.

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But there is a kind of commitment to the

Lord that is wholehearted full-throated

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endorsements, whole life committed.

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That's the kind of life that

we ought to live, and this is

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the life that Paul commences.

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He says that your whole life is a living

sacrifice and therefore it ought to

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be evident in the way that you live.

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And I think Caleb, man, he is my man

whole life committed to the Lord.

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Evident in his faith, evident in his

life, the blessings that God gave him

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were contingent and correspondent to the

blessing or to the lemme try this again.

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His blessings were from the fact that

his whole life was committed to the Lord.

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Do you think that the other form

of following the Lord the less

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than wholehearted, partial, right,

half-hearted, maybe that's what Paul's

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referencing when he says, some will

be saved, but only as through fire.

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Yeah, that's an interesting thought.

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I've never put those two thoughts

together, but I don't see why it

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couldn't be something related to that.

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Say more about that, just in the

idea that, so in that context, again,

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we're a beam, a seed of Christ, and

so we're dealing with believers.

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But there are believers that are going

to find that the majority of what is

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tested by fire is going to be burned up.

431

The opposite of that is those that will

have heavenly rewards for themselves.

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They will have the gems, they

will have the precious stones and

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metals and the crowns and things

that will pass through the fire.

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Things that were done for

the Lord and for his glory.

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Good things that the spirit rot.

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In their lives.

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But it implies, at least when Paul talks

about this, that there will be some that

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suffer more loss than they gain reward.

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And they're still gonna be

saved, but they're only gonna

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be saved as through fire.

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That there's something right

on the precipice of eternity.

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That there's a moment of final

regret, final pain, final

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loss that they experience.

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And that is looking back at a life.

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L devoid of a wholehearted devotion to

the Lord like we see here from Caleb.

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So just to catch you guys up

who are hearing us talk about

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this without the context, let's

give you one Corinthians three.

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This is starting at verse 10, and

we're gonna read through verse

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15 just to get catch you up here.

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According to the grace of God

given to me like a skilled master

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builder, I laid a foundation in

someone else's building upon it.

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Let each one take care

how he builds upon it.

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For no one can lay a foundation other than

that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

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Now, if anyone builds on the foundation

with gold, silver, precious stones,

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wood, hay, straw, each one's work

will become manifest for the day.

456

We'll disclose it and

that day is capitalized.

457

So it's referring to the great day.

458

Because it will be revealed by

fire and the fire will test what

459

sort of work each one has done.

460

If the work that anyone has

built on the foundation survives,

461

he will receive a reward.

462

If anyone's work is built, burned up,

he will suffer loss, though he himself

463

will be saved, but only as through fire.

464

Okay.

465

Now that we've read that any fur further

reflections or thoughts about that?

466

No.

467

Yeah I see.

468

I could see that.

469

It could be part of that.

470

It seems like there, there's a lot here.

471

I'm gonna say that's maybe a part of

the idea, but I think that there's.

472

More stuff happening here, so maybe it's

at least that, but perhaps more than that.

473

More than that.

474

Being more than the half heartedness.

475

Sure.

476

I think there's a lot more than the half

heartedness being communicated here.

477

Totally.

478

And it's probably connected.

479

Yeah, I would agree with you.

480

I think there's more than the

halfheartedness for there for sure.

481

Just wondering if.

482

That could be part of it.

483

Joshua 15.

484

Then outside of the situation with

Caleb and Othniel the majority

485

of this chapter marks out the

boundaries for Judah and lists the

486

cities that Judah was to inhabit.

487

The one notable exception coming at the

very end, that is that they were unable

488

to drive out the Jbb sites from Jerusalem.

489

So that will happen, but it's

not gonna come for quite a while

490

under the reign of King David.

491

Speaking of David, which

we opened the episode with.

492

Bookend it with David again.

493

He's the one that's gonna

take care of Jerusalem.

494

Eventually.

495

I wanna shout out my man, Caleb once more.

496

Joshua 15, 14.

497

Caleb drove out from there,

the three sons of och.

498

She shy.

499

And Ahhe.

500

And Alai, the descendants of och.

501

So these are probably the, at least

what we think, were a giant people.

502

They were large people and this

dude is just outta here buddy.

503

My place now he's a rock star.

504

I love Caleb.

505

Yeah.

506

Caleb's good and young are great dudes.

507

But yeah, I, we've already seen hints

of the fact that Israel is struggling to

508

take out people that should not be there.

509

They, it's not that God isn't saying you

have the ability by my grace to do this.

510

It's that they're choosing not to.

511

And those little cracks are alluding

to what we're going to soon see

512

flourish in the book of judges.

513

So pay close attention to those hints.

514

Yep.

515

Hey, let's let's pray and then

we'll be done with this episode.

516

God, we are thankful for your word

that we get to spend time in and it's

517

sometimes harder for us to wrap our

minds around understand than other times.

518

But I just pray that by your spirit,

you would help us to pull some nuggets

519

out of this that we could take and apply

just like we have been highlighting

520

Caleb, that we would be a church that

are marked by more Caleb's than not,

521

that we would be a church that is wholly

devoted to you, that's following you with.

522

Everything that we are.

523

And we need your spirit to be able to

do that and work that in us, and so we

524

pray that you would in Jesus' name, amen.

525

Amen.

526

Keep in your Bibles tuning again

tomorrow for another edition

527

of the Daily Bible Podcast.

528

See you.

529

Bye.

530

Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to another

edition of the Daily Bible Podcast.

531

This is a ministry of Compass

Bible Church in north Texas.

532

You can find out more information

about ourChurch@compassntx.org.

533

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534

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535

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