Dr. Kelsy Vick kicks off a body “spring cleaning” series by explaining the lymphatic system’s role in waste clearance, immunity, fluid balance, and puffiness, and why many wellness trends (like gua sha and dry brushing) are often done incorrectly. She breaks down lymph fluid, vessels, nodes, and organs, emphasizing key traits: the system runs throughout the body, is low pressure with no pump, lies close to the skin (so light pressure works), and requires clearing lymph nodes closer to the trunk before working on distal swelling. She shares a story about a “nothing” feeling lymphatic massage being appropriate, outlines practical ways to support lymph flow (hydration, exercise, self-massage sequencing, compression on flights), notes when to see certified lymphedema specialists, discusses how vibration plates may help via muscle activation, and explains cycle-related puffiness, including a luteal-phase creatine loading protocol mentioned by Dr. Katie Hirsch.

RESOURCES:

Gua Sha & The Lymphatic System:

https://player.captivate.fm/episode/7147a1b1-5e61-4fcc-82df-4c929ed6a0cf/

4:: spring cleaning: body detox! Part I https://player.captivate.fm/episode/f50a5c40-7377-4710-a9a8-44b03022a1f8/

49:: female-specific fueling, training & performance with Dr. Katie Hirsch https://player.captivate.fm/episode/077def9c-370a-4963-b662-8d1f61256f73/

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That's your lymphatic system talking,

and most of what wellness culture

2

tells you to do about it is either

useless or completely efforts.

3

The second key characteristic that

I feel like most people get wrong

4

is that the lymphatic system is.

5

you know that puffy, heavy, sluggish

feeling you get sometimes in the

6

morning, sometimes after a salty

night or a night at happy hour with

7

your friends, or even on your period.

8

That's your lymphatic system talking,

and most of what wellness culture

9

tells you to do about it is either

useless or completely backwards.

10

Welcome back to Wellness.

11

Fix the Pod.

12

I'm your host, Dr.

13

Kelsey Vic, a board

certified orthopedic Dr.

14

Physical Therapy and a pelvic

floor physical therapist

15

. And you've heard of spring cleaning for

your house as a way to clear out clothes,

16

refresh, organize, but have you heard

of spring cleaning for your body this

17

April, we're running through a spring

cleaning series, but a fun wellness sea,

18

healthy body style of spring cleaning,

not your typical home organization.

19

Clear out sort of spring cleaning.

20

And we're gonna start off with.

21

An often misunderstood system in our

bodies, the lymphatic system, many of

22

us probably think about the lymphatic

system when it comes to something like

23

guha or dry brushing, but the lymphatic

system is so much more than that.

24

So I figured what better way to

kick off our spring cleaning series

25

than by talking about this often

misunderstood system in our bodies.

26

Our lymphatic system, or the body's

natural waste clearance system

27

Is in charge of how well your

body fights off illness, how well

28

it maintains fluid balance, and

how puffy and swollen you feel.

29

So a little smart girl science moment.

30

If you care about the different

components of the lymphatic system,

31

sometimes I know I understand my

body better by understanding how it

32

actually works in the deeper why.

33

So this is that little smart girl

science moment for those of you guys

34

who are like me and need the deeper

understanding of the system before we

35

can apply it to our day-to-day lives.

36

The main components of your lymphatic

system are the actual lymph fluid,

37

which is created from excess fluid

that is left over from a lot of

38

different processes within your body,

in addition to some of the waste

39

components that are also a part of a

lot of different processes in our body.

40

A lot of the byproducts from

things like gas exchange.

41

Different cellular processes.

42

So all of that goes into your limp.

43

That's the actual fluid

of the lymphatic system.

44

The second component are the lymphatic

vessels, and these are the actual

45

pathways that carry that lymph fluid.

46

Then you've got the lymph nodes,

and you can think of these as

47

little checkpoints along the way.

48

They check for foreign pathogens and

invaders and help our body break them

49

down to eventually get rid of them.

50

They also tell the rest of the

team if they sense an invader to

51

queue up the response needed to

eventually get rid of that invader.

52

If it is too much for them to break

down or handle, they are in charge

53

of queuing the key players in the

system that will eventually get rid of

54

those pathogens and foreign invaders.

55

And lastly, you've got

the lymphatic organs.

56

And I think of these like college.

57

They are the preparatory institutions

that help to mature and weed out

58

certain immunity cells that are going to

eventually fight for our immune function.

59

They make sure that you have the best

immune cells working on your behalf.

60

So this lymphatic system is actually

an extremely particular system,

61

and there are a few key characteristics

that most people get wrong that I

62

wanna make sure you actually get right.

63

One cool fact is that lymph vessels

actually run throughout your entire body,

64

not just in your legs or your hands, or

where you might feel those tight rings or

65

on a plane where your legs get swollen.

66

They actually run all throughout the body.

67

And you can actually

feel your lymph nodes.

68

Most of us can feel 'em in

our armpits or our groin.

69

Some people might be able to feel

'em on the front of their lower leg.

70

They are those sort of checkpoints that

help us to detect foreign invaders, break

71

'em down to eventually get rid of 'em so

we can feel those clusters of lymph nodes.

72

Most often people can feel 'em

in their groin or their armpits.

73

The second key characteristic that

I feel like most people get wrong

74

is that the lymphatic system is

what we call a low pressure system.

75

Unlike the cardiovascular system

that has the heart as a pump, the

76

lymphatic system does not have a pump.

77

So a lot of our lymphatic system

is working against gravity.

78

That's why when you're on a plane,

you might experience a lot of.

79

Pooling and swelling in your lower

legs, it's because that system

80

is a pretty low pressure system.

81

There's no pump that's helping to

return that fluid back up to the heart

82

so a lot of our lymphatic system is

actually having to work against gravity.

83

This is why compression stockings

actually help during the flight.

84

It's because they provide this

boundary for our lymphatic system

85

to work against to get that fluid

moving back up against gravity.

86

If you don't have those compression

stockings, you can just picture

87

your lower leg swelling and

swelling and swelling, because.

88

It is a low pressure system so

that fluid is going to pool there.

89

It's also a low pressure environment

being in the air, so those compression

90

stockings add sort of this boundary

for the lymphatic system to press

91

against to hopefully help return

that lymphatic fluid back up the

92

system and work against gravity.

93

The third characteristic that a lot

of people get wrong, this is the one

94

I see most people getting wrong, is

that the lymphatic system lies very

95

close to the surface of the skin.

96

So you don't need a lot of manual pressure

to actually affect your lymphatic system.

97

The fourth characteristic of our

lymphatic system, that might be the

98

second most thing people get wrong,

if not the first, like these are tied

99

for one and two In order to affect

our lymphatic system, let's say in our

100

feet, we need to clear up the areas

ahead of the feet before we're able to

101

actually successfully and efficiently

move that swelling from the feet,

102

back up that pathway.

103

Since it is a low pressure system, it's

not like if we move things from our feet,

104

it's going to push that fluid through the

lymph nodes through the rest of our body.

105

We actually have to clear the areas above

or further up the chain or down the chain

106

if we're talking about our face, head, and

neck area before we clear the more distal

107

or the further away areas from our trunk.

108

So this means we need to clear

those checkpoint areas, those lymph

109

nodes closer into the trunk before

we can work on that puffiness, that

110

swelling further away from the trunk.

111

And lastly, if we have damage to our

lymphatic systems, we can end up with

112

that puffy feeling, that swelling

and decreased immunity since it is

113

involved in your immune function.

114

A little story time.

115

My sister and her fiance recently

went to get their first lymphatic

116

massages, and I called them after

and I was like, how did it go?

117

I was very curious, knowing what we

know now about the lymphatic system,

118

how their lymphatic massages actually

went, and what was performed and what

119

was done, and the processes involved.

120

Now that you understand the lymphatic

system a little bit better, you can

121

start to do a little bit more of.

122

A dive into how other people

treat the lymphatic system.

123

So I was asking her, how did it go?

124

And she was like, honestly, it

felt like they were doing nothing.

125

I don't know what we paid for.

126

My fiance was a little upset because

he was like, what the heck was that?

127

It feels like we got nothing done.

128

And in my little nerdy heart,

I was like, oh my gosh.

129

That's wonderful because A,

we know the lymphatic system

130

lies very close to the skin.

131

So B, we know that.

132

Light pressure is needed and I didn't get

a chance to ask her the order of events,

133

I guess, but I'm assuming the lymphatic

massage therapist was able to clear out

134

areas closer to the trunk before he or

she moved further away from the trunk,

135

which are two of those key components

we know are needed for effective

136

and efficient lymphatic system work.

137

So their massage therapist, of course,

performed the most wonderful lymphatic

138

massage using all of those lymphatic

system principles that we just learned.

139

Even if my sister felt like

they were doing nothing, that

140

means that she or he effectively

targeted their lymphatic systems.

141

So let's talk about why their

massage therapists were right

142

and what most girls get wrong.

143

And I really wanna drive this point home.

144

The lymphatic system needs

clearance closer to the trunk

145

before further away from the trunk.

146

And we need to use light pressure.

147

Two key components that I

see so many people miss.

148

Most people I see use firmer pressure

and they work on clearing swelling in

149

a certain area without thinking about

clearing the areas further up the

150

chain and the lymph nodes in the areas

that that fluid in your foot or in

151

your hands will eventually drain into.

152

So take Guha for example.

153

Whenever I see a Guha video, I often

see people starting at the face and

154

doing certain patterns along the

jawline, when in reality there is

155

a very specific pattern that needs

to happen in order to effectively

156

decrease that puffiness in your face.

157

First, you have to awaken or clear

out some of the lymph nodes in the

158

trunk and neck, so that eventually

when that swelling starts to go down,

159

that puffiness starts to go down.

160

That fluid starts to move outta the face.

161

It can drain into those different

checkpoints and clear those

162

effectively before moving back

into your circulatory system.

163

So that's something I don't always

see is people opening up those

164

areas, clearing out those areas

before actually guha in your face.

165

That is a must if you're going

to effectively clear out some

166

of the swelling and puffiness

in your face when you do guha.

167

The second thing, of course, is that

they use way too heavy pressure.

168

They use it more as a massage device

versus a lymphatic device, and

169

that's okay if that's your goal,

to work some of those muscles of

170

chewing those muscles, mastication.

171

Headache muscles if it's totally

fine to do that, but I think there

172

needs to be a clear distinction on

why you are doing a certain technique

173

and why you are using a certain

amount of pressure when you are wash.

174

If your goal is to affect the muscles,

then heavier pressure is okay, but

175

if you're actually trying to decrease

that puffiness and decrease that

176

swelling, you need to use light pressure

even with a qua shot device after.

177

Clearing those areas that

the lymphatic system of your

178

face eventually drains into.

179

So light pressure and.

180

Clearing out the areas close to the

heart and close to the trunk are key

181

in actually addressing and working on

your lymphatic system and some of that

182

puffiness and swelling that you feel.

183

and anyone who is promoting lymphatic

based treatments and you don't see

184

them do these things or you see them

use heavy pressure and not clearing

185

certain areas, you can say that's a

little bit of a red flag in how that

186

person is approaching their lymphatic

system and maybe the knowledge that

187

they have on the lymphatic system.

188

And we always approach it

with kindness, of course, but.

189

We can also approach it with a little bit

of a critical lens to know, oh, hang on,

190

maybe they are not the person I want to go

for, for lymphatic advice, because clearly

191

they don't understand the specifics of

the lymphatic system , like you now do.

192

So how can you actually

affect your lymphatic system?

193

We talked about how it's

a low pressure system.

194

Our circulatory system, our cardiovascular

system has a pump, it has our heart.

195

So not only does our heart help to

pump fluid throughout that system,

196

but we also use exercise and we have

one-way valves in that system so that

197

when blood is actually getting pumped

back to the heart, it's not necessarily

198

flushing back down into our foot.

199

We have those one-way

valves that can help.

200

So that's our circulatory system.

201

What can we do about our lymphatic

system, which is a little different

202

in that it's a lower pressure system.

203

Two key things, hydration,

of course, and exercise.

204

Those are the two easiest ways.

205

Pumping our muscles through exercise

actually helps not only our circulatory

206

system, but also our lymphatic system.

207

And then of course, staying hydrated

208

is a huge benefit to our lymphatic system.

209

The other thing we can do

is a self lymphatic massage.

210

With the keys being light

pressure, clear areas close to

211

the trunk before further away.

212

You guys are gonna get so

irritated hearing me say this,

213

but it's so, so important.

214

We want to clear those areas first so

that fluid's not getting stuck in our

215

extremities and our puffy, swollen

fingers with rings and our lower legs.

216

When we come off of a flight, we wanna

clear those areas closer to the heart,

217

closer to the trunk, before we work

on the swelling and puffiness and

218

heaviness further away from the trunk.

219

So a general rule of thumb as far

as how to perform a self lymphatic

220

massage, you wanna start off

221

with deep diaphragmatic breaths.

222

This really helps some of those

lymphatic vessels, those lymph nodes

223

inside the trunk that are often deeper

than what we can actually reach.

224

Then we wanna use light,

pressure, circular sort of

225

flicking motions at the neck.

226

So we are clearing some of those

lymph nodes that will eventually

227

drain back into the heart.

228

Then we move to the armpits and

the groin, which are sort of

229

those entry regions for the upper

extremities and our lower extremities.

230

The lymph fluid from our

face drains into our neck.

231

The lymph fluid from our arms drains

into those armpits, and the lymph fluid

232

from our legs drains into the groin.

233

So we wanna make sure to start at

the trunk and then work our way out.

234

And don't worry, I'm putting

the full self lymphatic massage

235

videos in this week's newsletter,

236

the right sequencing, the right pressure.

237

The technique.

238

I actually teach my patients in

this week's Smart Girl newspaper.

239

The link to sign up is below.

240

They come out every Wednesday,

so if you're listening to this

241

episode on the Monday it's released,

sign up for that newspaper and it

242

will send straight to your inbox.

243

If you're listening to this after the

fact, don't worry, we have all of those

244

smart girl newspapers archived, so you

could just click the link and see the.

245

Smart Girl newspaper associated

with this episode, which I believe

246

will be Smart Girl Newspaper

247

volume 19, and you could just scroll

through to get the full videos for how

248

to actually do a cell lymphatic massage

for your face and for your entire body.

249

As a side note, if you think you have

challenges to your lymphatic system,

250

if you're like, okay, but I feel like

this is not normal, something's off.

251

That totally could be the case,

and there are actual specialists

252

and experts that help with this.

253

A lot of the time, our lymphatic

systems are super affected.

254

If someone's undergoing cancer treatment,

I see a lot of patients post mastectomy.

255

That's probably the most common

for lymphatic work, and there

256

are true lymphatic specialists.

257

If you think you have a lymphatic

system that is just not functioning

258

or you've had treatment for something

that might have harmed or affected

259

your lymphatic system in some way.

260

There are experts out there

and if you know someone who's

261

struggling with this, , who's like.

262

I don't know why I am feeling this way.

263

After you know this treatment or after

this round of antibiotics or whatever it

264

is, let 'em know that there are people

who are actually specialized to help.

265

There's healthcare professionals

out there, lymphatic specialists,

266

certified lymphedema specialists.

267

There are people . Who solely

work with these patients and know

268

the compression garments, how to

size them, all sorts of things.

269

So I wanted to throw that in there.

270

I feel like it would be remiss if

I did not mention the additional

271

professional help that someone could

get for their lymphatic system if it is

272

something that seems to be way outside

of the norm, or if possibly their

273

physician or surgeon didn't recommend

it after some sort of cancer treatment.

274

I also wanted to talk

about vibration plates.

275

I did an episode last week on the

science behind vibration plates, how

276

they affect our bone marrow density,

our muscle strength, our power, our body

277

composition, our fat loss, our muscle

growth, all of those sorts of things.

278

But I didn't mention how it

affects our lymphatic systems.

279

I feel like most people use

vibration plates for the.

280

Goals that I talked about last

week, that bone marrow density,

281

strength, power, fat loss.

282

So I covered all of that last week.

283

It's just the episode right before

this if you wanna listen to it.

284

But we did not touch on the lymphatic

system for the reason that I knew

285

we would be covering it this week,

286

. So how might vibration plates actually

help or harm your lymphatic system?

287

We learned last week that vibration

plates actually help strengthen your

288

muscles More than no exercise at all.

289

There are.

290

Of course ways that exercise

helps over vibration plates too.

291

But if you are someone who doesn't

exercise, a vibration plate will help your

292

strength more than no exercise at all.

293

Since the vibration plates have been

shown to help strength in some way, we

294

can know that there's muscle activation,

of course, from these vibration plates.

295

Since muscle activation helps our

lymphatic system pump some of that lymph

296

fluid throughout our lymphatic systems,

that's how those vibration plates

297

actually help our lymphatic systems.

298

If we go back to the basics,

muscle activation is super

299

good for our lymphatic system.

300

It's a low pressure system.

301

It thrives on muscle activation to help

pump some of , that lymph fluid back up.

302

The system

303

A vibration plate allows for

muscle activation, which can

304

help your lymphatic system.

305

But exercise, if you can exercise,

if you have that good exercise

306

routine and that habit built.

307

Also allows for muscle activation,

which helps your lymphatic system,

308

so you don't necessarily need a

vibration plate to help your lymphatic

309

system just staying hydrated.

310

Normal exercise and self lymphatic

massages can do the trick.

311

Now for a little fun.

312

Why might we as girls feel

a little puffier during

313

certain phases of our cycle?

314

Specifically, most of us feel

puffier during our luteal phase.

315

Your lymphatic system is actually

influenced by your hormones.

316

You are like, shocker, Kelsey,

tell me something I don't know.

317

My hormones influence everything.

318

And with that, you're right.

319

Hormones are a way our body communicates

with different parts of our body.

320

So of course our lymphatic system

is affected by our hormones.

321

Estrogen tends to actually support

lymphatic function, which is why we

322

might not feel as puffy during that first

half our follicular phase of our cycles.

323

But as you move into that luteal

phase, your hormones start to shift.

324

Your body is more prone

to fluid retention,

325

so your lymphatic system

has more to manage.

326

and that's when you might feel a little

bit more swollen or a little bit heavier.

327

A little over a year

ago, we chatted with Dr.

328

Katie Hirsch, who is a.

329

A PhD researcher on all things female

physiology, and she mentioned a protocol

330

that I've been following now for over

a year, ever since she mentioned it.

331

I've been following this protocol

every menstrual cycle where she

332

called it creatine loading, where

during that luteal phase that

333

back half of your cycle, you take.

334

Five days worth of 20 grams of

creatine, split amongst four doses.

335

So you're not taking 20

grams of creatine at once.

336

On one day I'm taking five grams four

times a day for five days in my lal phase.

337

And what this does is this

pulls some of the fluid, more

338

intramuscularly versus extracellularly.

339

So you feel.

340

More powerful, you recover

a little bit better.

341

There's some performance benefits to

this creatine loading, but you also feel

342

less puffy because that water is getting

pulled into the muscles versus staying out

343

extracellularly and affecting some of that

344

puffy swelling lymphatic

system type of symptoms.

345

So I'll link that episode below if

you wanna check out the full thing.

346

She explains it so much better.

347

But I have noticed a difference

in not only my workouts doing the

348

creatine loading, but also in that

general puffiness and swelling and

349

like just blindness that I feel

within my body in that back half

350

of my cycle in that luteal phase.

351

So that's the lymphatic system.

352

I hope you guys learned a lot.

353

I hope you now understand a little

bit better why you might feel

354

puffy or more swelling during

certain times of your cycle.

355

Certain times of the day

356

During flying after a super salty

meal, all of those things are affected

357

by your lymphatic system, and now you

have a greater understanding of that

358

system and can also point out some red

flags in how people are approaching

359

their lymphatic system treatments.

360

We've covered the lymphatic system

before, so I'll link those episodes below.

361

If you want to dive in a little

deeper, I'll also link Dr.

362

Katie's episode, and then I will have

the link to our smart girl newspaper

363

below if you're able to sign up

before it comes out and get it since.

364

Straight to your inbox this Wednesday,

or if you're a little later in listening

365

to this episode and visiting us after the

fact, you can always go into the archive.

366

It'll be volume 19 of

the Smart Girl Newspaper.

367

I hope you guys enjoyed this episode

and I'll see you guys again on the next

368

episode of Wellness Fixes the pod where we

will continue our spring cleaning series.