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How to Make Sales Training Stick
Episode 416th June 2023 • Connect & Convert: The Sales Accelerator Podcast • Sales RX and Wizard of Ads Employee Optimization
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In this episode of Connect and Convert, Dave Salter and Dennis Collins tackle the common issue of sales training going in one ear and out the other. They share that most training material is forgotten within a week, wasting time and money. To help explain why this happens, they reference the Ebbinghaus Forgetting Curve. But don't worry - they have a solution! Invest in sales training that is customized and relevant to your business and focused on spaced repetition. Dennis Collins emphasizes the importance of installation or follow-up to ensure the training sticks. He suggests setting up a team with a dedicated manager who can provide sales personnel with consistent feedback, practice, and correction. After all, owners can't always be sales managers too.

Transcripts

Dave Salter:

Hi, I am Dave Salter and you've landed on Connect and

Dave Salter:

Convert the podcast where we share insider secrets for small business.

Dave Salter:

Success.

Dave Salter:

I'm joined today, as always by Dennis Collins.

Dave Salter:

And Dennis is our resident rockstar sales training expert.

Dave Salter:

He's been successfully training salespeople for about 153 years

Dave Salter:

and these folks tr consistently exceed their sales marks.

Dave Salter:

Dennis, good morning.

Dave Salter:

Good to be with you.

Dennis Collins:

Dave, how are you today, man?

Dennis Collins:

I'm doing, I'm doing all right.

Dennis Collins:

It's always good, and we can spend a couple couple minutes together.

Dennis Collins:

Well, unfortunately, today I've gotta start with some bad news

Dennis Collins:

for our small business owners.

Dennis Collins:

I, I hate to do it, but hey, you know that sales training you

Dennis Collins:

invested in for your team last week?

Dennis Collins:

Great effort.

Dennis Collins:

Thank you for investing in your team and your sales training.

Dennis Collins:

Sometimes these things cost 50, 60, a hundred thousand dollars.

Dennis Collins:

Bad news, 90% of that was probably wasted, nine out of every $10 out the door.

Dennis Collins:

Sorry about that, but it's been forgotten.

Dave Salter:

That's not a good sign, but I, you know, Dennis I often forget

Dave Salter:

what I have for breakfast and I'm also guilty of, you know, you walk into

Dave Salter:

a room and you went in there to get something or cha or, or and then you

Dave Salter:

get there and you're like, oh, crap.

Dave Salter:

What was I, what did I come in here for?

Dave Salter:

So I'm glad.

Dave Salter:

We're gonna talk a little bit today about Sam's Training Day and

Dave Salter:

the Ebbinghaus Forgetting Curve.

Dave Salter:

Give us a, your brief thoughts on forgetfulness and as

Dave Salter:

it pertains to training.

Dennis Collins:

As it pertains to training, there's a very good chance that

Dennis Collins:

any new training that you deliver will be 50% forgotten in the first 24 hours

Dennis Collins:

and 90% forgotten in the first week.

Dennis Collins:

That's not good, but I have a story.

Dennis Collins:

Okay?

Dennis Collins:

I have a story and this is something a true story.

Dennis Collins:

We're gonna call this gentleman Sam.

Dennis Collins:

Okay, Dave, you ready?

Dave Salter:

Sounds good.

Dave Salter:

I can go with Sam.

Dave Salter:

Alright.

Dave Salter:

I can remember that.

Dennis Collins:

Yeah, Sam is easy.

Dennis Collins:

That's why I'm calling him Sam, cuz I forget too.

Dennis Collins:

Sam was a young sales rookie, gungho, and, but in, in spite of hearing

Dennis Collins:

all the negative stuff today about sales, he his father had been a

Dennis Collins:

successful salesperson and he said, you know what, I'm gonna do this.

Dennis Collins:

So he joined a business that seemed to fit him.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

He joined a business that believed in growing and training, especially rookies.

Dennis Collins:

Finally dun-da, the first big training day.

Dennis Collins:

Okay, Sam's all excited.

Dennis Collins:

A six hour in-person information rich workshop featuring a well-known speaker,

Dennis Collins:

a well-known trainer, had great content.

Dennis Collins:

The presentation was great.

Dennis Collins:

You couldn't have asked for more.

Dennis Collins:

Six hours of learning, discussing role plays, reflection at the end,

Dennis Collins:

after the after session cocktail party, all attendees said, you know,

Dennis Collins:

That was really a good session.

Dennis Collins:

Sounds good, huh Dave.

Dave Salter:

Sounds great.

Dave Salter:

Dennis and I know I have been in those, scenarios before and you're

Dave Salter:

all charged up, you've received all this great information.

Dave Salter:

And then, a week later.

Dave Salter:

You've either lost it, but most of the time, it just, it doesn't stick.

Dave Salter:

So tell us a little bit about why that happens.

Dennis Collins:

In this case, like so, so many other training cases,

Dennis Collins:

the question that I would ask is, okay, great idea, great training.

Dennis Collins:

What happened after the training?

Dennis Collins:

Maybe some learners remembered some of the material.

Dennis Collins:

Maybe they gave it a try.

Dennis Collins:

If, if, if you're lucky, hey, if you're really lucky.

Dennis Collins:

Some of them may have actually internalized some of the things they

Dennis Collins:

heard and tried to install it in their day-to-day activity, but most probably

Dennis Collins:

group fell victim to what we call the Ebbinghaus Forgetting Curve the Ebbinghaus

Dennis Collins:

Forgetting Curve, Herman Ebbinghaus.

Dennis Collins:

He proved that we forget 50% of new information within 24 hours

Dennis Collins:

of learning it and 90% of new information within one week.

Dennis Collins:

Not good, especially, Dave, when you consider the wasted costs, they

Dennis Collins:

say that in the United States, $70 billion is spent per year on training

Dennis Collins:

- $70 billion with a B, with a B.

Dennis Collins:

Let's say 90% of that is gone within a week.

Dennis Collins:

By my quick mathematical calculations, that's over 60

Dennis Collins:

billion wasted training dollars.

Dennis Collins:

Wow.

Dennis Collins:

Let's bring it home.

Dennis Collins:

Let's bring it home to you.

Dennis Collins:

If you have a training budget of a hundred thousand, 150, 200,000, whatever it is,

Dennis Collins:

times 90, what's going out the door?

Dave Salter:

Wow.

Dennis Collins:

What's going out the door?

Dennis Collins:

That's pretty scary.

Dennis Collins:

It's scary.

Dennis Collins:

I was running radio stations and it should scare any small business owner that an

Dennis Collins:

investment that large is being wasted.

Dennis Collins:

Most of it gone.

Dave Salter:

So Dennis tell me.

Dave Salter:

And there's a couple ways that, that gets lost.

Dave Salter:

And you can talk about that a little bit, but the other question

Dave Salter:

about is whose responsibility is it to reinforce that training?

Dave Salter:

Once you've, you, you're done with this six hour seminar, you go

Dave Salter:

home or you go back to the office, whose job is it to reinforce that?

Dennis Collins:

That's a great question.

Dennis Collins:

I have several thoughts about that.

Dennis Collins:

Generally speaking, it's the business owner's responsibility.

Dennis Collins:

Most sales trainers today that I used to hire, they don't

Dennis Collins:

have a training component.

Dennis Collins:

I think they should have a practice component.

Dennis Collins:

I think they should, but they don't.

Dennis Collins:

But let's go over a couple ideas.

Dennis Collins:

I have a little saying that some taught me years ago that I like to use.

Dennis Collins:

Knowledge without action is just entertainment.

Dennis Collins:

So if you wanna entertain your troops, not build skills, do traditional training,

Dennis Collins:

the one-off seminar, the workshop, fine.

Dennis Collins:

Be selective about the training that you invest in.

Dennis Collins:

By that, is it customizable?

Dennis Collins:

Can it be custom and relevant to your situation, your specific business?

Dennis Collins:

People remember things longer that are more relevant to their situation.

Dennis Collins:

Generic training, not so much.

Dennis Collins:

That's the 90% that's forgotten.

Dennis Collins:

How do you understand the value of space?

Dennis Collins:

Repetition.

Dennis Collins:

What is space repetition?

Dennis Collins:

It's been proven that if you take a piece of information that is learned on day

Dennis Collins:

one and repeat it in day two or three and then repeat it three or four days later,

Dennis Collins:

and then repeat it a week later, and then two weeks later, spaced repetition.

Dennis Collins:

But how many sales training programs have a space repetition module built in?

Dennis Collins:

None that I ever bought.

Dennis Collins:

I had to do it myself.

Dennis Collins:

Once I was victimized by the Ebbinghaus Forgetting Curve, I had

Dennis Collins:

to establish the space repetition so it was my responsibility.

Dennis Collins:

Are there built-in modules for practice or is it just a one off?

Dennis Collins:

Is it a lecture?

Dennis Collins:

A seminar and then it's over.

Dennis Collins:

Are you willing and able to host at least one ,and ideally two,

Dennis Collins:

practice sessions every week?

Dennis Collins:

Commit to a practice session based on the training?

Dennis Collins:

Do you have a manager level person who's overseeing, providing constant feedback

Dennis Collins:

on your sales process and your training?

Dennis Collins:

I find that a lot of small businesses it's a d i Y by the owner.

Dennis Collins:

Acting as founder, owner and sales manager.

Dave Salter:

So that often won't work because they're not

Dave Salter:

an expert in sales training.

Dave Salter:

They're an expert at making the widget that they're trying to sell

Dave Salter:

or whatever, and the sales part of it's not their area of expertise.

Dennis Collins:

It almost never works.

Dennis Collins:

And I give, a founder owner full of them and vigor and excitement for their

Dennis Collins:

business "I can do this, I can do this."

Dennis Collins:

Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

Not so much.

Dennis Collins:

I have found that they can't do it, mostly can't and shouldn't.

Dennis Collins:

So there needs to be someone overseeing the sales operation that can provide

Dennis Collins:

direction, feedback, practice correction, and hopefully build skills.

Dave Salter:

Dennis, it's one of the things you and I have talked about

Dave Salter:

previously, and I think this is your most important bullet point on this is

Dave Salter:

something you talk about is installation.

Dave Salter:

Yes.

Dave Salter:

Can you elaborate a little bit about installation and why

Dave Salter:

that's important to this process?

Dennis Collins:

Installation is where the rubber meets the road.

Dennis Collins:

It would be like a computer program.

Dennis Collins:

Dave, if you bought a new software program for your computer that's gonna

Dennis Collins:

make your life easier, make your job easier, and you put it on your desk

Dennis Collins:

and you never install it into the computer, what good does that do to you?

Dennis Collins:

I say the same as true for sales training.

Dennis Collins:

We need to have a new thought process about sales training.

Dennis Collins:

Yes, the training event is critical.

Dennis Collins:

I'm not saying skip those, but follow up with installation.

Dennis Collins:

I'm gonna refer our listeners, our viewers, to another one of our podcast.

Dennis Collins:

It's all about practice.

Dennis Collins:

Practicing With a Purpose is the title, and rather than spend the time here

Dennis Collins:

talking about the installation process, I would refer you to that podcast and

Dennis Collins:

in that we will get very detailed about how to install a training program.

Dave Salter:

That sounds great, Dennis.

Dave Salter:

I appreciate that and I look forward to to going through that episode as well.

Dave Salter:

So.

Dave Salter:

Summarize for us, if you will.

Dave Salter:

Sam's training day and and maybe we will maybe we'll finish up here.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

Sam's training day started off great.

Dennis Collins:

Sam was excited, but unfortunately Sam and his colleagues were not trained properly

Dennis Collins:

because there was no installation.

Dennis Collins:

There was no follow up.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

When you're going to do transformational training programs,

Dennis Collins:

okay, there's two types of training.

Dennis Collins:

There's educational and transformational, okay?

Dennis Collins:

Some training is just to educate someone on something

Dennis Collins:

like a technique or something.

Dennis Collins:

But transformational is behavior changing type of training.

Dennis Collins:

If you're going to do transformational training, you have got to

Dennis Collins:

have an installation process.

Dennis Collins:

And the installation as we will discuss in our practice podcast has

Dennis Collins:

many steps that need to be followed.

Dennis Collins:

You can defeat the Ebbinghaus Forgetting Curve.

Dennis Collins:

It is not inevitable.

Dennis Collins:

Hermann gave us some very good ideas about how to defeat it, and that's

Dennis Collins:

coming up in a future podcast.

Dave Salter:

That's good because just listening to you, I just remembered that I

Dave Salter:

had two eggs, Sunnyside up this morning on toast with some tea, and I'm ready to go.

Dave Salter:

So Dennis, thanks for your wisdom and insight today, folks.

Dave Salter:

That wraps up another edition of Connect and Convert, the podcast

Dave Salter:

that lets you behind the curtain with some insider strategies for

Dave Salter:

small business sales success.

Dave Salter:

This is Dave Salter with Dennis Collins.

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