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HEAL THE PEOPLE & HEAL THE PLANET With CAREY MACCARTHY
Episode 733rd April 2024 • Shining Brightly • Howard Brown
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A BROKEN UPBRINGING LEADS TO ART THERAPY, INTEGRATING AND HEALING INDIGEOUS PEOPLES. In Episode 73 of the Shining Brightly Podcast Show (links in the comments), titled “HEAL THE PEOPLE & HEAL THE PLANET”, I am joined by the incredible CAREY MACCARTHY, MA, ATR, LPCC. On her own at age 15 and a single mom by 22, she was able to use education as her escape to create a better life. Her passion grew as she worked in indigenous reservations with the Lakota/Dakota tribes to help support and rebuild the First Nations Peoples. She and I too believe that HEALING should be accessible to all people of all ages. Come download, listen, share and review this amazing episode!

Mentioned Resources

WEBSITE: https://startuparttherapy.com/

FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/startuparttherapy/

LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carey-maccarthy-ma-atr-lpcc-b3386618/

TWITTER/X: https://twitter.com/careymaccarthy

INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/start_up_art_therapy/

YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/@startuparttherapy990/featured


 About the guest –  CAREY MACCARTHY, MA, ATR, LPCC, Founder/CEO of START UP! Art Therapy To Rewire your Brain™. VOTED TOP ART THERAPIST OF THE YEAR 2024, and featured on major networks like ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, NPR, Brainz Magazine & Who's Who in America.  Carey is an author, presenter, speaker, and researcher, prominent in the Art Therapy since 2001. She is a Registered Art Therapist with the Art Therapy Credentials Board (ATCB), and a Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor. Carey co-authored, with Neurodevelopmental Art Therapy Pioneer Linda Chapman START UP!™: A School-Based Arts Curriculum for Native American Youth and ALL Cultures: Interventions for Development and Learning, Facilitators Manual (KDP Publishing, 2017). She is a recognized trauma expert specializing in child & adolescent trauma and Native American Historical Trauma and is trained using the Red Road Approach to Healing with Lakota/Dakota Tribes and is a fluent Spanish speaker. Her mission is to help rebuild the First Nations People. Carey believes that healing should be accessible to ALL People of ALL Ages & ALL Cultures. Join her in her movement to Heal the People & Heal the Planet. Carey co-authored, with Neurodevelopmental Art Therapy Pioneer Linda Chapman START UP!™: A School-Based Arts Curriculum for Native American Youth and ALL Cultures: Interventions for Development and Learning, Facilitators Manual (KDP Publishing, 2017). 


About the Host:

Howard Brown is a best-selling author, award-winning international speaker, Silicon Valley entrepreneur, interfaith peacemaker, and a two-time stage IV cancer survivor. He is also a sought-after speaker and consultant for corporate businesses, nonprofits, congregations, and community groups. Howard has co-founded two social networks that were the first to connect religious communities around the world. He is a nationally known patient advocate and “cancer whisperer” to many families. Howard, his wife Lisa, and daughter Emily currently reside in Michigan, and his happy place is on the basketball court.

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Http://www.shiningbrightly.com

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LinkedIn - https://wwwlinkedin.com/in/howardsbrown

Instagram - @howard.brown.36


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#neurodevelopmental #artt #herapy #startup #bestseller #school #curriculumn #mentalhealthcare #healthcare #indiginous #indianreservations #wholebrain #healing # #motivate #educate #inspiration #podcast #download #listen #share #reveiw #shiningbrightly

Transcripts

Howard Brown:

Hello, it's Howard Brown is the Shining Brightly

Howard Brown:

Show. I've got a great one for you again today. I love people

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that help people. And I want to introduce Carey McCarthy. Carey,

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welcome to the show. So great to see you.

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CAREY MACCARTHY,: So great to see you, Howard. Thanks for

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having me.

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I love the Indian motif. We're gonna get into that

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I see a pillow behind you and a blanket. We're gonna get into

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all of that. But I need to tell you about Carey. We met only

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recently, maybe a few months ago, whatever. But we connected

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and we I just want to tell you her story. And I want to share

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this with the world and my audience. So Tara McCarthy, she

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is so credentialed, she has lots of little letters after her name

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and a ATR LPCC. And you're the founder and CEO of start up art

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therapy to rewire your brain. And you were voted the top Art

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Therapist of the year for 2024. Congratulations on that. You've

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been featured on major networks on ABC, NBC, CBS Fox, I guess

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that's all of them. NPR, brains magazine, who's who in America.

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While you lot of awards. Carey is the author, presenter,

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speaker, researcher, and you're prominent in the art therapy

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since 2000. And once you've been doing this a while you are a

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registered Art Therapist with the art therapy credentials

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board the ATC? Is it B? Yep. And a licenced professional clinical

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counsellor, you have co authored the neural developmental art

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therapy pioneer with Pioneer Linda Chapman, I guess she's big

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in this world. I looked her up. And then you have a school based

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arts curriculum for Native American youth and all cultures.

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And then it says here that it's called interventions for

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development and learning facilitators manual that you

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actually published in 2017. Just finishing up you are recognised

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trauma experts specialising in child and adolescent trauma, and

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Native American historical trauma. Wow. And we're going to

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talk about that too. And you are trained in using the red road

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approach to healing. We're going to talk about that with the

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Lakota and Dakota tribes. You are fluent in Spanish. And your

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mission is to help rebuild the First Nations people, which is

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amazing. The indigenous people Carey believes that healing

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should be accessible to all. And people of all ages and all

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cultures. Please join her in this movement to heal the people

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and heal the planet. I love that. Oh my goodness. Well,

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let's actually call it tell me that that's a great intro. But

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tell me something maybe we don't know about you, or maybe a

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little secret you want to share?

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CAREY MACCARTHY,: Well, Howard, when life gives you lemons,

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learn to boogie board.

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Do you know how to do that?

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CAREY MACCARTHY,: I do I am a beach bum. So that's something

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that people don't know about me. But any chance I get ever since

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I was born raised in California and ever, ever since I moved

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back here a few years ago I took up boogie boarding when things

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fell apart and you know during COVID and ended up at the beach

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on the waves

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I want to share with you I need a boogie board.

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And I've done it. My college roommate had a boat and lived on

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the ocean outside of Boston to a place called Duxbury mass. And

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in college, I learned how to boogie board. I learned how to

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windsurf too. I just don't do it enough.

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CAREY MACCARTHY,: Awesome. Well, we got to boogie boarding date.

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Right? hang loose, right? We got to do that it got

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to Hawaii hang loose. All right. Well, let's dive into this

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because we got a lot to talk about today. And so the first

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thing I'd love to share a little bit about your life and a little

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background on kind of how you became who you are today. So

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take us back aways there.

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CAREY MACCARTHY,: Okay, so Well, I was born into a very

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interesting dysfunctional family with a borderline personality

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disordered mother who became a severe alcoholic and an autistic

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father. So I was pretty much a latchkey kid growing up, and

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there was a lot of sexual abuse outside the home physical abuse

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that culminated with my mother and me in the hospital and the

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police coming and taking me and my brother away, and having to

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go live with with my family, my father and my brother. So there

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was a lot of sudden disruption and a lot of trauma going on in

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my world. And as a result, I got great grades school was my

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sanctuary. I was on the honour roll every year, you know, and,

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but that, you know, I ended up living on the streets. So you

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know, my dad kicked me out when I was 15. And in with the trauma

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even though it was prison, running happily and doing well

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in schools, like, there is so much anxiety and suffering and

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depression and shame and guilt and all of those things that are

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happening internally that nobody saw. So when my father kicked me

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out on the streets, it just exacerbated that already

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existing abandonment, trauma and the, all the other traumas that

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had happened. And I just ended up, you know, being part of the

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punk rock scene in the 1980s. And that was like a fam, a

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familial block bond with other misfit kids. And I ended up

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doing a lot of drugs and going to a lot of punk rock music

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shows and became a young single mom at the age of 22. And but I

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always had this urge to, to survive and to create and to

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make something of myself. So I ended up putting myself through

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school, and really made something of myself and and turn

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that trauma around. And I became, I started majoring in

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art. And then did a double major in art therapy or psychology as

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my undergrad. And I started noticing how the art was really

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transformative in my life. But just being an art student was

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not the thing that was going to get me to where I wanted to be,

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there was something more just been doing art. And so art and

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psychology and the marriage of that was really important. So

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that's when I became an art therapist and went into a three

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year graduate programme in art therapy.

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But you did a lot, I just want to just send her on

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for a second, because it's an important thing. You're a

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survivor. I mean, you You came through a lot. abuse,

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abandonment, neglect, you got into, you know, your family and

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your your your your basically your safezone was school and you

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excelled there. But you found a crew of punk rocks, not saying

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that they're bad or good. But, you know, they tended to get it

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a little bit into drug use. And you became a very young mom very

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quickly. And when you were a single mom at that time,

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CAREY MACCARTHY,: yes, I was a single mother and remained so

Howard Brown:

throughout the whole 18 years of raising my daughter. Wow.

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Because as a result of childhood trauma, you know you and not

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being seen by your own family and getting that nurturing and

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guidance that a child needs to form and to establish healthy

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relationships and healthy boundaries. I was picking not

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good partners for myself that were very narcissistic. And I

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had developed a really interesting case of codependence

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so really interesting, having blurry boundaries between where

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I started in the other, you know, ended where where there

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was that separation. So it's Did

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you did you actually, Were you conscious of

Howard Brown:

trying to break this cycle with your own daughter?

Howard Brown:

CAREY MACCARTHY,: Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I

Howard Brown:

would think that so.

Howard Brown:

CAREY MACCARTHY,: Yeah, she's she's got a much better

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foundation than I had.

Howard Brown:

Okay, so then, I mean, art therapy became your

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new schooling, your new place where you just excelled. And

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also the the clinical part of it as well. And so then you started

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to give back, right, the next step after that, let's go there.

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Yeah,

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CAREY MACCARTHY,: so part of, you know, my own journey, being

Howard Brown:

healed from art therapy and going through graduate school

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and finding that a lot of these trauma symptoms actually

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dissipated for me. And at that time, I was seeking to heal

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myself as well. So I was going out to Native American

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reservations and doing ceremonies with them. This is,

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you know, over 20 years ago, and I started feeling just so much

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more, you know, who I meant to be on purpose. And I decided

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when you know, I, there was a certain time in my life when my

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daughter was raised that I was going to create a nonprofit and

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go back to the reservations and live there in the Great Plains

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region in South Dakota, and I did, and 2014 I founded a

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nonprofit called indigenous Healing Arts Alliance. So I went

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to the reservations. I lived on a small little reservation in

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northeast Nebraska first and that was a really I had friends

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there and connections and I was able to actually work as a

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tribal historical preservation monitor with their tribal

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historical preservation office while I developed this whole

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programme, so I got to go and monitor different archaeological

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sites for cultural properties. And I was trained in doing that,

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which was fascinating. But I was really focused on healing Native

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American trauma. So I was developing this programme based

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on neuro developmental art therapy trauma treatment,

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developed by Linda Chapman, who is a renowned art therapist, as

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you mentioned in my bio, and she has since retired given

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neurodevelopmental art therapy to me, and I've become the

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successor of that inbuilt it out to have more neuroscience, and

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more cultural competence. And we'll get into that piece in a

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moment. But living on the reservations was so super

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incredible and depressing and sad. But just seeing such a

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beautiful people and seeing all of the traditions kept alive all

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these years and seeing the fabric of a society, the

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communal living and the way that they would get together and

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honour certain people and have these big feeds and ceremonies

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for people. And it's just it was, you know, and I ended up

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marrying into the Lakota tribe and was with a traditional

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dancer and well renowned artist, and from the Lakota tribe for

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many years, and worked with Indian Health Services on Pine

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Ridge Reservation. So I actually ended up moving to Pine Ridge

Howard Brown:

Reservation and the Black Hills of South Dakota, eventually. So,

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you know, my whole life was going to powwows every weekend

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and going to native art shows and ceremony, Sundance ceremony,

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UEP, ceremonial, swampy ceremonies, and Sundance. And of

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course, Lodge.

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This is just so interesting. I have to tell you,

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I've probably not been on a big Indian Reservation ever. But you

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sort of got as a white woman learned a culture was accepted

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into their community. But yeah, I mean, I know they have their

Howard Brown:

own language, but you learn their ceremony. Right? You took

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that all very, very seriously. Is that how you got

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indoctrinated and welcomed into their community by showing that

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your true heart was there for the betterment of them? And I

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mean, it's very interesting, you kind of showed up right at

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first, but then got introduced into the community. I, it's just

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amazing that you've dedicated a big majority of your life to

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doing that, and had great intention, but they didn't know

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you at first, right?

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CAREY MACCARTHY,: Well, I had had some inroads for the past 20

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years. So yes, and getting, you know, being introduced to

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different people and just being involved. But they see your

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heart and they, you know, many see who your energy field. And I

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do have native blood from Ohio tribes, on my mom's side. So

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going back, but if you are a white person, and you don't know

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your oral history, and you don't know what your grandfather,

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great grandfather's name was, you don't really go around

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saying your native, right. So that's kind of frowned upon and

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native Indian Country was it's called Indian country. So that's

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not a racist thing, just just so people know. But yeah, being

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part of these ceremonies being accepted in without culturally,

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appropriating anything. And I have actually gone through a

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process to be initiated to pour water and sweat lodges, and I do

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hold that for my community. But that's not something that it's

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it's not for sale, it's not something that I make money on.

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So I want to just relate something to you. So I

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just spoke on a cruise ship, and there was indigenous, cheap, or

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Indian medicine person there. And I partook in my first water

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ceremony. It was very enlightening to me, it never

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happened. And then he put his hand on my shoulder. And he

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said, Howard, I know enough about you, but there's two birds

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in your life. This is I mean, he doesn't really know me. He heard

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me presented. I presented, you know, for an hour first day. And

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then he put his hand on my shoulder. He said, Yes. You

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know, I know about the Phoenix, and I now know about the dove.

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He goes, I want you to actually allow the bluejay into your

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life. And that's all he said. And then I went and researched

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what the blue j means, you know, and how to apply it to me. I

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thought it was fascinating. So I had a I had a reading and a

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water ceremony for the first time on this cruise ship.

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Fascinating. So it just shows you we're always learning. And

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it was very cool. So again, my only real exposure to this, you

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live this, which is very, very different.

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CAREY MACCARTHY,: And I had to tell you, I was actually a guest

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on a podcast earlier this week. And there was my accent is no

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accident with Maritza Paris, and I, she's a psychic medium. I

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don't know if she tells anybody this, but we were talking about

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the Lakota people and my work with them. And suddenly a spirit

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came in through her it was a Lakota spirit, and asked her to

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ask me, tell us more about the Lakota people who are they where

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they're from. So I got to give this whole history of who the

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Lakota people were. But it was very amazing, you know, just to

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know that these spirits of the native people are with me

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guiding me on this mission to bring art therapy, trauma

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treatment, trainings, and putting mental health into their

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tribal schools. So they're there.

Howard Brown:

So I will tell you this that so because I am such

Howard Brown:

a, you know, a patient expert and advocate in the cancer

Howard Brown:

world, I actually call for a screening, okay. And it's March

Howard Brown:

is colorectal cancer awareness month, but every cancer has a

Howard Brown:

month and a colour, and ours is blue. And so but I do I say, Go

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get screened at age 45. That's the age now unless you have

Howard Brown:

family history, where you have symptoms, or you're part of a

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minority community, if you're black or brown skinned, or if

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you are indigenous or Latino, those are the highest diagnosed

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because they're the least tested because of their access or their

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trust of the healthcare system. So I do do that. Always. So I,

Howard Brown:

it's just a little bit of relation. They're not what

Howard Brown:

you're doing. But I just want to say that I I felt compelled to

Howard Brown:

share that because the health care. If you're not at your

Howard Brown:

optimal health, you can't lift yourself up or lift up others,

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which is my motto and all that. Let's let's continue on. So the

Howard Brown:

reservation experience is absolutely cool. And then you

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actually started to take over the practice from Linda right,

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or she wanted you to Carey the torch forward.

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CAREY MACCARTHY,: Yes. So Linda was actually we were colleagues.

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She's co author of the startup art therapy curriculum. And she

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was still active in the field when we were kind of, you know,

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tag teaming, and but as after the California wildfires, fires,

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her house burned down. So she's just like, I'm retiring. Here

Howard Brown:

you go, and 2017. So anybody that wants training in

Howard Brown:

neurodevelopmental art therapy, this is for teachers, schools,

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therapists, coaches, they come to me and give me the contact

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info at the end. But

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can you explain what neuro developmental art

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therapy is for the audience? Right,

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CAREY MACCARTHY,: great question. No, developmental art

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therapy is a whole brain healing approach. And so it's bottom up.

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So it is corresponding with the four functioning structures of

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the brain going from the bottom up. And the top functioning

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structure is that prefrontal cortex, which is responsible for

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decision making, planning, compassion, empathy, wisdom, and

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understanding right from wrong. So it's the most important part

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of the brain to have daily function. So we actually

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developed a whole curriculum based on neurodevelopmental art

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therapy. So there's the acute, chronic, or the acute trauma

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model. And then there's the chronic trauma treatment model.

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So the curriculum startup curriculum is based on the four

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stage chronic trauma treatment model. So it's rewiring it's

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specific art therapy, activities that rewire the brain from the

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bottom up, but also left right integration. And then when

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people have that thinking brain online, then they can do top

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down thinking where it's more cognitive driven, instead of

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impulsive.

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I think it's fascinating. For those of you

Howard Brown:

just listening that Carey just held up a copy of her book,

Howard Brown:

well, we're gonna put it in the show notes and on all over

Howard Brown:

social media be able to find it. And you also though, one of the

Howard Brown:

things that you're a specialist in happens to be adolescents and

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youth and then also the indigenous as well. And so

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you're working with young people and children which the age range

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CAREY MACCARTHY,: that you work with, actually work with adults

Howard Brown:

too. So I know that but

Howard Brown:

but you also you have this specialty with

Howard Brown:

children too, right? Yeah,

Howard Brown:

CAREY MACCARTHY,: children of all ages. It could be pre K we,

Howard Brown:

you know, work with more sensory art and and all the way to

Howard Brown:

adolescents. And then, you know, I've had 8590 year old clients

Howard Brown:

as well,

Howard Brown:

okay? Because I mean, I have to say, you know,

Howard Brown:

the big give back for you is how you help people now is that you

Howard Brown:

had such a rough childhood. And now you're, you're, you're

Howard Brown:

focused on folks to be able to help them through that trauma

Howard Brown:

and move them forward. And that's, that's, that's the

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shining brightly, you know, light that I see is, you know,

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you lift it up yourself, and now you're lifting up others and,

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and you specialise in neurodevelopmental art therapy,

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which is I've learned a lot about it since meeting you, so

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that you've made me an educated guy as well, all that. So

Howard Brown:

CAREY MACCARTHY,: yeah, and, you know, putting mental health into

Howard Brown:

the classrooms has been really my passion, especially for

Howard Brown:

Native children as a prevention and early intervention. But

Howard Brown:

also, you know, we, this is an issue that exists in our own

Howard Brown:

backyards. And I can't tell you how hard it was to get funding

Howard Brown:

when I was a nonprofit for Native American causes. And now,

Howard Brown:

it's great because it's coming out more to the in the forefront

Howard Brown:

that, you know, we need to help our native brothers and sisters.

Howard Brown:

And you know, we had the XL pipeline in the Standing Rock

Howard Brown:

protests. And now the killers of the flower moon and Lily

Howard Brown:

Gladstone from the Osage tribe just got nominated for so many

Howard Brown:

awards. And you know, it's just like a huge celebration and huge

Howard Brown:

win in victory. So, I will hope that people kind of feel

Howard Brown:

compelled to also get involved how they can help the native

Howard Brown:

cost. So yeah, I'm putting mental health in the classroom,

Howard Brown:

but to give back to them, and also to pay homage to myself as

Howard Brown:

a child, and all the children that fall through the cracks,

Howard Brown:

because they suffer silently with trauma. And then they grow

Howard Brown:

up into adolescents and adults and become incarcerated. You

Howard Brown:

know, domestic violence, substance abuse, suicide, mental

Howard Brown:

illness, and mystery illnesses, because some of the things that

Howard Brown:

can happen to when there's been a history of childhood trauma is

Howard Brown:

that there can be a trauma spin out, where there's that limbic

Howard Brown:

system, part of the brain firing these SOS signals constantly,

Howard Brown:

that causes inflammation in the brain, and actually can cause

Howard Brown:

physical disease like mystery illnesses, chronic fatigue

Howard Brown:

syndrome, multiple chemical sensitivity, you know,

Howard Brown:

fibromyalgia, all these things that doctors don't know how to

Howard Brown:

treat. And so that can be another trauma when people are

Howard Brown:

on that road show of going from doctor to doctor to doctor. So

Howard Brown:

this is wanting to I'm wanting to take this programme out, not

Howard Brown:

just for natives, but to all cultures, eventually.

Howard Brown:

I think this applies to everyone coming out

Howard Brown:

of the pandemic, where the number one thing was loneliness

Howard Brown:

that led to depression as everyone. We were restricted

Howard Brown:

here, at least in the US, right? Oh, my, I think it applies to a

Howard Brown:

lot of us. So certainly, tell me a little bit more about the book

Howard Brown:

because you're, you know, you're multiple author and all that.

Howard Brown:

But tell me more about kind of the vision of startup and and

Howard Brown:

what you changed in it and things like that, because it's

Howard Brown:

doing well. And it's, it's really an important piece of

Howard Brown:

curriculum.

Howard Brown:

CAREY MACCARTHY,: Oh, well, thank you. Thank you. So you

Howard Brown:

know, this is to be putting into classrooms to behavioural to

Howard Brown:

juvenile justice systems. We actually have a pilot programme

Howard Brown:

in a JDC juvenile detention centre in Sioux Falls, South

Howard Brown:

Dakota right now, that's going very well and in the State

Howard Brown:

Penitentiary, with adults. So getting you know this out into

Howard Brown:

the world and putting it into the classroom curriculum in all

Howard Brown:

schools as a standard. You know, it's the foundational building

Howard Brown:

block to building the nervous system to building the emotional

Howard Brown:

perceptual, the cognition, and creativity and joy and, you

Howard Brown:

know, optimising the brain to be able to learn academics. So it

Howard Brown:

really should be in every classroom so children can

Howard Brown:

actually learn English and math and science. So this is, you

Howard Brown:

know, what my vision is for this book for this curriculum. And

Howard Brown:

we're actually creating a new programme right now for adults

Howard Brown:

and rewiring their own brains from trauma and, and new online

Howard Brown:

course.

Howard Brown:

Got a lot, a lot going on. So it's shout out to

Howard Brown:

teachers and school admins to give this a checkout. So we'll,

Howard Brown:

we'll highlight them and we'll we'll we'll hash tag some of the

Howard Brown:

educational folks that they can be made aware Maybe they don't

Howard Brown:

even know they're aware of it know that this is fascinating.

Howard Brown:

We could talk a lot longer, but the show is short. So I want you

Howard Brown:

to put on your sunglasses. This is the shining, brightly

Howard Brown:

spotlight that we end the show with. I want you to tell me all

Howard Brown:

those are the very cool glasses very artsy, I love them. Where

Howard Brown:

to go, Carey, I'll tell people how best to get a hold of you,

Howard Brown:

you have something that you might want to offer. And then

Howard Brown:

we're going to end the show with inspirational, either story or

Howard Brown:

quote from you, and then you'll kick it back over to me.

Unknown:

Yeah, thank you, Howard. So the way to get a hold

Unknown:

of me is you can directly email me at Carey C A R E Y @

Unknown:

startuparttherapy.com, Carey@startuparttherapy.com, you

Unknown:

can go to the website startuparttherapy.com. And you

Unknown:

can actually just pick up the phone and call me the old

Unknown:

fashioned way if you want for 159479608. And that is the way

Unknown:

to be able to, you know, get me for training. And I want to give

Unknown:

you guys today a bilateral scribble art therapy technique

Unknown:

called scribble your way to calm and you'll be able to access

Unknown:

that through Howard's links. And to end with a quote, freedom is

Unknown:

what we do with what has been done to us. And that is by John

Unknown:

Paul start. We repeat that with freedom is what we do with what

Unknown:

has been done to us. And we can take that a step further.

Unknown:

Freedom is what we do with what has done been done for us

Unknown:

meaning that we have, you know, kind of chosen our Earth walk

Unknown:

before we come into these human bodies. And then some people

Unknown:

believe, and how can we transform that victimhood? That

Unknown:

things have been done to us? And can we see it as something

Unknown:

that's been a teaching to help propel us forward in life? So my

Unknown:

motto, feel the people heal the planet? Wow.

Howard Brown:

Wow, wow, wow. Well, this has been incredible.

Howard Brown:

I'm gonna in the show notes. And on all social posts, get in

Howard Brown:

touch with you, we only scratched the surface of

Howard Brown:

neurodevelopmental art therapy, of course, and a 30 minute show.

Howard Brown:

This has been incredible Carey, I want to thank you, you shine

Howard Brown:

brightly, and helping people, you know, recover from trauma.

Howard Brown:

And that is actually very noble. And it's a beautiful thing that

Howard Brown:

you do. So thank you. You can get a hold of me, Howard brown

Howard Brown:

on the shiningbrightly.com. There, you can check out the

Howard Brown:

book. I have other books in my Amazon account as well. But

Howard Brown:

also, my speaking, you want me to speak at one of your events,

Howard Brown:

make it shine. So come, I'm talking to me about that as

Howard Brown:

well. And this podcast is just it's touching people. We go from

Howard Brown:

human resolve, as we heard today, from Carey to inspiration

Howard Brown:

always. And my advocacy for the cancer world, the

Howard Brown:

entrepreneurship world, the interfaith world, all can be

Howard Brown:

found there. So please reach out to me. And I just want to give a

Howard Brown:

shout out and thank you to the people that helped me most,

Howard Brown:

which are my publisher, front edge publishing, read the

Howard Brown:

spirit.com magazine out every Monday, my podcast house, which

Howard Brown:

is based out of British Columbia, and they are amazing,

Howard Brown:

and they just helped make me look great and shine as well. So

Howard Brown:

with that, choose, okay to shine brightly, a little bit each day

Howard Brown:

for yourself. For others, lift them up for our communities and

Howard Brown:

neighbourhoods. And yes, the world become a better place.

Howard Brown:

Thank you. We'll talk to you soon Carey great show.

Howard Brown:

CAREY MACCARTHY,: Thank you so much, Howard.

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