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Sophia Moshasha: Learn how to party in the Metaverse and Smell the Roses
Episode 11728th March 2022 • The Business Samurai • John Barker
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Sophia's mission is to accelerate the adoption of immersive & emerging technology across all industry sectors. She is sought after for her ability to influence global networks as an evangelist in propagating VR and AR technology. Through her ability to effectively communicate complex technologies into feasible solutions that have a clear value and return, she creates unique opportunities for brands to create major impact utilizing emerging technology.

* “Everything VR & AR” podcast co-host, for the VR/AR Association where she serves as the DC Chapters Vice President

* National Training & Simulation Association, Human Performance & Analysis Committee Member

* Ready Player Golf- world’s first virtual reality charity golf tournament raising $17,000 with 90 participants

* Virginia Virtual City- Shaping policy and coordinating the integration of XR creators with the virtual city.

* The Polys -WebXR Awards & Summits - Producer & Host

* XR Women - Co-founder

Sophia Moshasha LinkedIn Profile

Sophia's website

As part of her commitment to wounded veterans, she has raised over $150,000 through organizing auction galas and other fundraising initiatives.

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The Business Samurai is created and produced by John Barker at Barker Management Consulting

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Transcripts

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. Welcome to the business samurai podcast.

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I'm your host, John Barker.

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Got a great guest with me today.

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Sophia, Moshasha Asha.

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Then I say your name right.

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Got my tongue, got stuck in the roof of my mouth.

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So for you, this mission is to accelerate the adoption of immersive and emerging

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technology across all industry sectors.

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She is sought after for her ability to influence global networks as.

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And propagating VR and AR technology through our ability to effectively

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communicate complex technologies into feasible solutions, to

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have clear value and return.

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She creates unique opportunities for brands to create major impact utilizing

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all of the emerging technology.

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She is the podcast co-host of everything.

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VR AR for the VR AR association, where she also serves as DC

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chapter's vice-president.

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She has ran the world's first virtual reality charity golf tournament.

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Ready player.

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With Virginia virtual city shaping policy and coordinating the

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integration of XR craters with the virtual city, she is producer and

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host of the Poly's web XR awards and summits, the co-founder of XR women.

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And as part of our commitment to wounded veterans, she has raised over

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$150,000 through organizing auction galas and other fundraising initiatives.

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So FEA that's a lot of stuff, but so thank you for taking

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the time to come talk to me.

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Absolutely.

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Thanks for having me excited to be here.

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Thank you.

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So how, why don't you give a, just a little brief background on what,

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how you got into emerging technology and is one of the thought leaders in

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this space and everywhere, obviously everywhere based on what I just read.

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Yeah.

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I, so I started about six years ago at a company called Brightline interactive.

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They're a custom content creation.

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Doing everything from interactive technologies to then VR and

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AR to be inclusive of that.

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And and spearheaded that effort for them cause they were just

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getting started in that technology.

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And in all of the research that I was doing as, marketing

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and business professionals.

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All the connecting that I was doing with others in the industry.

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I got to learn a lot about what was going on in the industry.

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I got to learn about who's who and where the innovations lied, and

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it became very intriguing to me as I'm sure it is for anybody else.

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That's in this.

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I fell in love with the technology after that, and that's how I got my start.

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And then just took it and ran with it and just made it my.

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To know everything that was going on.

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That's awesome.

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I want to get, I want to lay the groundwork for.

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For the discussion around, immersive technology web 3.0 and just try to get

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everybody on on the same plane, because I've been in tech for over 20 years

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and this stuff seems to be rapidly evolving and even the term web 3.0 and

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exactly what that means for everybody.

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So can you where are, where do we stand with immersive

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technology that it's usable?

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Can you clarify what web 3.0 actually is since that's the

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new hot buzzword going around?

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Yeah.

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So I, I would say the more water spread.

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The more wider spread understanding of AR VR, like came about in 2016 ish timeframe.

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Yeah, we saw more companies starting up to, to create for these

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experiences and lot more, hardware that started being developed to be

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able to deploy these experiences on.

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And so that's about the time when I actually got started as well.

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And and where I see that we're at now with the technology is

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we do have a lot of adoption.

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But it primarily is with people that are gamers, people that are in the industry,

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such as myself and you, John, who just, get, have a headset to experiment with,

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go into these different applications, go into these different social environments

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to really get an understanding of of what we can do with the tech.

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And then we have.

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Large groupings of, I would say more of very focused.

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Efforts on developing for the content.

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So from the brand side, it's, very event based location based,

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campaign driven initiatives.

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So you see a lot and the consumer has seen a lot through that,

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but through very dedicated initiatives through these brands.

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And then on, on the enterprise side, in the military, You see a lot of

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adoption and experimentation going on a lot around remote collaboration

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and training and I would say remote modeling as well and shared spaces

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to be able to do that virtually.

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But again, those are very siloed uses of the technology within the enterprise.

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The consumer hasn't really seen that side of it yet.

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And so a lot of what people know and the broader perspective of air VR is that

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it's a gaming technology, which it is, but everything game of a gamified makes

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things more fun to learn and educate on.

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So that's, that's a key value proposition of the technology, but.

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Where I see it going when I see it in terms of being it, being more

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popularized is going to be very content driven and have that maybe

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that killer app by that brand or that enterprise, that company that that

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people are already, maybe familiar with that are driving the technology.

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And it has to create some kind of value in people's lives beyond the

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novel aspect of the technology.

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I compare it to the early days of the smartphone where, you know, me,

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myself, I didn't get an iPhone til about four years after it came out,

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but I played with it prior to that.

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And I was all my friends phones toying around with it, and it was cool, but I.

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Connect with it in terms of having it drive that extra value in my life, there

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was content and applications that were being deployed for the sake of content.

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But nowadays we see applications that truly drive that, that

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value at, in our lives.

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And we can't see ourselves without the smartphone.

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So that, so I believe when the tech, the content kind of gets there.

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To that point and that we have that killer app, that's going to drive consumer

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use across the board on for driving the, for using these technologies.

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And I also believe that, apple will also be a big part of that as well, cause they

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have a major influence and and driving that consumer use of the technology.

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But in terms of hardware, we're already there.

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I think it's very capable.

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The Oculus quest is a very capable headset, has a lot of content out there.

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Super, super easy to use a standalone headset.

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You don't have to hook it up to really expensive gaming computer.

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It's 300 bucks, and that's already a fraction of what we're used to

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paying for our technology devices, our laptops, and our computers.

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I think in terms of accessibility, it's already there and in a lot of

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the applications now, we're, now we're getting into web a lot of the applications

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you can actually use on your mobile device, on your PC and on your headset.

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So you have the option of a headset connected to our phone.

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It started out with your phone going into.

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HMD device where you can view three to 360 content on your cell phone,

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that was like the early days.

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So yeah, that's it.

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Yeah.

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That's exactly how it started.

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And and there are definitely great use cases for that as well.

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So I think in terms of hardware, like we're there, it's just a matter

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of getting the investments from these larger enterprises to drive

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that content on these devices.

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I was going to, that's going to get people to use it.

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I wanted to clarify, I think the term, cause I'm even a little confused by the

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term because we use augmented reality AR virtual reality VR, and then the XR term.

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Is that just the fusion of the two or is there more technology when you use

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the term XR, immersive technology?

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I would say, so XR extended reality, or as military likes to put it

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across reality, I've learned.

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But I consider it just the overarching terminology for all these different

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augmentations of reality, mixed reality, augmented reality, virtual

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reality, anything in between.

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So I just stick with them either immersive technology or.

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And I know it's not like I want to be a stickler on a definition, but I

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hear some terms I'm like, is that a.

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Yeah.

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I don't think that word means what you think it means type of thing.

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And I'm like, how are they?

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What's what's this actually involve or include?

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Cause I hear some of those things are interchangeable, but you mentioned some of

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the bigger brands being able to use this.

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And I had heard it on a recent podcast who had done with Tyler.

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You were talking about events like south by Southwest, some fashion clothing.

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Nike, can you give us.

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Some stories, some examples that maybe you've seen out in, I'm going to use

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the term in the wild about how they're effectively using that and getting

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consumers to have a different experience.

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I'd say the most widely used use cases for the consumers.

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That's actually working is is augmented reality for viewing.

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Items and furniture in somebody's home.

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Let's say, I Kia Wayfair.

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Amazon, even Google, you can even Google things right now.

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And Google has integrations into their search engine for augmented reality.

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And I think that's the most widely use, easily understandable relatable use

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case that is actually driving driving revenue because now people can see.

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At scale, what those items will look like in their home.

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And so it just overcomes that one barrier of, the, what ifs and the

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possibilities and the unsure being unsure of a big purchase like

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that's then again, hard to return.

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You're also seeing that in the makeup industry as well with facial augmentation

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through these various applications started with Snapchat now Instagram is having it.

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And these are some of these filters are branded filters and companies are

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investing in placing their brands.

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Into these augmentation sites where then people can not only try on

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these different accessories and and makeup brands, but they can also

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purchase within the app as well.

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So we're seeing a lot of that.

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One of the other things I don't know, did you get a chance to

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see Lex Freeman's interview with mark Zuckerberg that he did?

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Ah, I've went back.

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I couldn't watch this.

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It's two hours long.

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So I've been, I've watched it in chunks, but one of the things that

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I found interesting that, obviously Facebook's taking the term over

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Metta and and I don't think there's going to be any singular company.

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That's going to be quote unquote the metaverse.

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I don't think this is ready player one environment, I don't

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know that we're heading down that path, but do you see the kind of.

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Particularly now that we've went through COVID and we're doing a lot of stuff

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here through web cameras that we're going to get into these bigger virtual

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meeting rooms, where we get all of the nuances as we were legitimately

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sitting next to each other with all of the nonverbal cues that I'm used to.

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Yeah.

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I'm already doing it, but then again, in the industry experimenting

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with it, but tell us to, yeah.

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Can you give us an example of that?

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That's awesome.

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Yeah I'm not a gamer, so I don't go into VR to use the

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different gaming applications.

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That are available.

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I just don't even have the time, but you kind of time for the

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more of the social experiences.

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So I have attended concerts with holograms of celebrities that

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are playing hosted by Altspace.

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Cause they're doing a lot of experimentation with

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their new mesh capability.

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I have, I've hosted virtual experiences and for virtual events like you

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said, like you had mentioned ready player golf was a big, is a big

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initiative of mine and a couple others that I work with and we hosted the

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first virtual reality charity golf.

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Two years ago and we've done it for the second year in a row and we're

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gearing up for the third year as well.

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And we're, we're proving that people will pay a hundred bucks a ticket to

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attend virtual reality golf tournament, people within our industry, but people

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outside of our industry as well.

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We're getting a lot of new people and headsets to come into our.

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Clubhouse that we've built and engaged, super realistic graphics.

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The avatars are awesome.

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You can upload a photo of your face and it's super imposes it onto

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your avatar and your mouth and your eyes are moving while you talk.

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So that experience is awesome, but that's the clubhouse part.

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And we've actually perfected being able to portal from that app and engage.

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To another Oculus app called golf plus where people, a portal

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to their to their matches with the teams that they've selected.

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I love the inner portability between apps and between worlds.

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I think this is a great kind of starter use case for what we want

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to become the metaverse being able to freely be able to do that.

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And people are doing that.

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We see a lot with just in general, like remote collaboration,

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just as simple as meetings.

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There's a lot more that you can do with modeling and design in 3d.

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That's super valuable for it and its own.

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But at the very basics, getting that feeling of being.

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In a space with your colleague, with your friend it's just a different type

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of relationship then what you can have over video, as we all know I always

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said that VR was the next best thing to actually being somewhere in person

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and experiencing something in person.

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And and they're definitely making.

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That happened in these collaborative work environment.

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So you do see a lot of that and it's cool because there's not a lot of customization

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of the spaces that you have to do.

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So anybody can go in and start a room in different applications.

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Spatial is a big one that's out there and you can try it for yourself.

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And again, you don't have to be in a headset to do it, which

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is awesome because there are.

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Is there going to be you mentioned about being the next best thing

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to actually physically being there now that we've seen it.

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I do play games a little bit.

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My only experience with VR headsets has been in a video game mode.

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So to see something that's been practically, I'm sitting in a meeting.

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Honestly, if there would be a podcast environment that I could record

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these in VR, that would be that'd be cool that I have to look that up.

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How far away before you start bringing in other senses, smell being

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one of them, which is a big deal.

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When you're talking about setting the environment, you're going somewhere

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and you've got the smell of the ocean, the breeze, the leather of

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the chair you're sitting in the office, things of that nature to

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really make that a full experience.

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Yeah.

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The technologies already exist.

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They do, there's a company called.

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OVR technology.

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And it's basically a strap on cots piece of hardware to your VR device.

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And they customize simulated smells.

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And not only that, the th there's variables of that smell, depending on how

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close or how far you are from that object.

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And they can immediately.

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Turn those smells off and on, depending on what you're doing.

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So for example, when I, one of the first times I tried the technology, they told

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me to pick a rose out of the rose garden.

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The rose was on top of the rose bud, what is on top.

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And there was dirt on the bottom where the where the roots were.

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And so the reason that they did that was because they wanted me to

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take a smell of the rose and then quickly turn it over to smell.

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And when I did that, the smell is just turned off and on for

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for the smell of flower smell.

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It was really cool.

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And then there's there's so many different types of other technologies for haptics.

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Being able to feel things in virtual reality, be haptics is one of

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them, Tesla suits another really impressive technology and it can do

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more than just haptics and feeling.

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They can do.

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Like heat and cooled feelings.

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Sure.

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It can collect biometric data as well.

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So there's a lot of really cool technologies that are out there.

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I think we'll see more and more integration of that, but, we're

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still in the early adoption stages of XR technology and itself.

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The ad-ons are going to be, quickly to follow.

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Yeah.

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People still have to gain confidence of XR technologies first.

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No.

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So one of the things that I'm most familiar with as far as when it

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comes to training has been in pilots.

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Pilots have had simulators around for a very long time.

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And a lot of them are still like, they're not just sticking on the headset.

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They're actually walking into a full bodied three-dimensional

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room with stuff set on there.

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But I do see that this would be.

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Had a job or a position that was extremely dangerous.

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And like you said, now you can put heat and cold into it and the

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smell are we seeing an adoption for companies as a method to train

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people without actually sticking them into the dangerous environments?

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I think that is like the number one use case for VR and training in particular.

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Because.

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A lot of the times, and you probably know this from a pilot training

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perspective, like you can't even train on the physical equipment until, you've

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passed a series of tests already and you've done the initial training.

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And then, maybe they'll put you in after that.

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But even in other circumstances training and oil rigs and oil fields, like they

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don't allow people to train there.

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So you're watching videos, you're reading manuals, you're taking,

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multiple choice tests based on, I would fail that job in a heartbeat.

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If I couldn't put my hands on something.

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You pass the test and then you feel when , so I like to call it

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failing, being able to fail safely.

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Yeah.

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And I think that's very important to do cause we are able to relate our

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actual experiences in consequences from those actions to the consequences

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of what would actually happen.

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Those actions and believe me, if that doesn't stick, then not even a

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multiple choice test will help you.

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And.

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Obviously then beyond the danger part of things, just in

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general learning and education.

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It cuts down time, significantly creates other efficiencies, reduce

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costs as a result of this and just makes people smarter faster.

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And it's pretty incredible.

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How complex is it?

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I have some experience having managed like software development projects and

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things of that nature, but when you're talking about building a virtual world

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that you can walk through that's being rendered in real time, essentially.

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What is the complexity in LinkedIn to be able to make that happen?

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I mean it's too technical.

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It's getting easier.

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It is getting easier.

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There's a lot of applications out there that are helping

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democratize the creation of content, depending on what you want to do.

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Obviously, if you're talking about very specific complex training scenarios

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and that's a whole different ball game, but I created my own 3d website.

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Okay.

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Frame and space.

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I consider a frame, spatial's also another one, another good one.

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I have the Wix is of 3d immersive websites.

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So it's, it's pretty simple for people to get in there and start creating

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and experimenting with the technology.

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There's also a lot of low code, no code platforms to be able to drum up your own.

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Augmented reality, experience that for, from let's say you're a marketer and you

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just want to get, something out there to the audience that is very simple.

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One asset, you bring it up with a QR code.

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That's easy to do now, so it's awesome.

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It's awesome that we're able to get the hand, get the CA the technology.

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Creation of the technology in the hands of more non-technical users.

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No.

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And I see that's probably gonna expand the adoption cause we, you would see

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that again, I'll go back to gaming.

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Cause this is a lot of the origination people that do mods in gaming, it can

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make things last a whole lot longer than what the normal, the original

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producers of the content would actually do with the modifications.

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One of the things that I was curious about coming from the cybersecurity background.

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His privacy as well as security being baked in with this, because now

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you're talking is so much more data points being tracked, being managed.

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And I don't know, the volume of data obviously is going to be way much more as

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if you're like eye tracking, legitimately everything that you're, the VRS in

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there, but also the ability, depending on the type of closed loop system that

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you're in of somebody being able to.

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Kinda get into it and manipulate what you're saying.

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And have you walk into a door for us, I'm using that as a sample

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because I'm staring at a door.

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Are, is that something that comes up when, as these things are starting to

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go to market and becoming more adopted?

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Yeah.

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And it's definitely a Conversation ongoing conversations that need to be

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continually continuously had especially in the early stages of the technology.

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So we can get out in front of.

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How this is going to be used, how the data is going to be used and

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tracked and be able to protect people.

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Especially because again, inherently, this is a gaming technology.

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You're going to see a lot more kids and these devices.

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So how do we protect them?

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Especially since it's, you can, there's, there are ways to monitor, from a parent

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mental perspective, but if a kid is gonna figure that out yeah, you can see what

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they're doing on the phone, but it's not like the TV's on, in the corner.

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And I can see out of the corner of my eye, you know what they're watching

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them eat that you're in a headset with that with a screen that's only

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available to the person that's in VR.

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So the world, the opportunities are limitless and the opportunities

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to be exposed to dangerous leading things are limitless.

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So yeah, then there's, I have a lot of things to say about this.

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For for websites that we go on, for example and emails that we get phishing

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emails, a lot of people, it's easily to get, it's easy to get scammed

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that way because it's coming from a believable source, something that

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you've done business with before the branding looks the same, the interface

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looks the same, so it's easy to give.

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The wrong fronts, this type of personal identifiable information already.

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So moving into the immersive space, think about how much easier it is to

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lead people, because I am building relationships now with avatar.

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That sound like somebody that I like, or maybe I know look like

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somebody now because I can program it.

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However I want, with the coming in and all that stuff, I can make it look

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exactly like the likeness of somebody else with the voice box and everything.

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And then with the convergence of AI machine learning and peop and

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getting to understand that person from more of that personal level, beyond

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that credit card information, then.

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Put in with a system in your first and last name, your email,

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I'm learning behavior now.

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So it's a lot easier to trick people into believing that it's a credible source now.

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So those are the things that we should definitely be considering and be weary of.

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And I know there's a lot of organizations that are exploring how they think.

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Kind of help fight that battle earlier on and understand what those nuances are.

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No, I totally agree.

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It's something that in a whole bunch of other things, we started

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thinking the safety of life, aspect should always be number one.

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And my concern had been when you're doing something with startup

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costs, that can be pretty expensive upfront that you try to rush it to.

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And to try to start getting some return on your investment.

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And so what's some of the stuff they usually get to the side.

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A we're not gonna necessarily put all the security things in there in case

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this doesn't take off, type of things.

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So that's been a, potential concern.

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Do you see us at any point in the near future, Google assets been on and off

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that we're were legitimately going around.

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Headset or something where we're constantly, our phones are close, but

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legitimately like a heads up display where we're constantly, you're looking

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around and you're constantly getting real-time weather, real-time traffic.

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You're getting, it's doing facial recognition with

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somebody walking on the street.

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I forget that was a, the minority report with Tom cruise movie type of thing.

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Some of this does not sound far fetched from being legitimate

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lately, right around the corner.

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Not 50 years from now, but.

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Two weeks from now.

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It's funny.

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The company I came from, we always got referred to or are compared

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against the minority report technology like minority report.

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I'm like, I did not know that going into this conversation,

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you can relate to that then.

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Yes, that is true.

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And it is, it's interesting.

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Back from like the star wars times where CII film.

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Are really leading the exploration into what tech technology future

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technology could look like.

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I'm not sure how much those producers and directors and.

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New about really the future capabilities, but it seems like looking back at one

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point, I keep going and set a chicken and egg thing because there's been more,

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I, there's no way for me not to talk about, ready player one when you're

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talking about virtual reality and it, yes.

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It's a young adult novel.

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Yes.

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I'm 40 and I, yes, I read it.

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But I reading this going, this seems plausible.

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I'm not going to say that the virtual or rally environment

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that they discuss in that book.

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It seems plausible to me a hundred percent.

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It is there, there are, versions.

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A variety player, one, out there and, half-life was a

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big, oh, I forgot about that.

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That was like a long time ago.

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Yeah.

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And I actually know technologies that were featured in ready player.

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One, the Infinitech was one of them with the omni-directional treadmill.

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Tesla suit was one of them with the full body have this.

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I mean that those technologies already existed and were featured in the film.

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Yes.

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That's where it could go.

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And it's super interesting.

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Super cool.

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People are finding kind of social validity now and in having these virtual presences.

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So I think that we're moving into an era where.

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There is an importance now.

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There was, there always was now with the coming of social media and

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things like that, where our digital presence is becoming more important.

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Now moving into these 3d, immersive virtual presences now as well and

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that's where like getting into the, the topic of the metaverse I always

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said, th the definitions around the metaverse are very ambiguous.

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People have many different actions from it, and I'm certainly not the one

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to give you the official definition.

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We're all kind of making, making it up as we go.

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And I think that.

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It maybe starts from this industry, from the XR industry and

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then educating people about it.

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But I think that it's going to be the combination of the XR industry leaders,

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brand leaders, the early stage adopters on the consumer side of things that

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going to simultaneously drive what the metaverse will actually become.

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But.

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People see it as a place or a series of places of connected virtual worlds,

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let's say that are interoperable.

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You can move freely between those worlds.

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Like like I described in the ready player, golf scenario, and a lot

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of what I've done in a WebEx are actually and being able to have

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persistency from one place to another.

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So I am.

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My likeness, I carry my likeness and maybe things attached to my likeness,

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my different badges or NFTs that I've purchased in one platform and B

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being able to then travel with that to various other worlds or platforms.

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But I also say that I think the metaverse perhaps is not.

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A place or a series of places, but a place or a moment in time where we start

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to value our virtual identities, maybe somewhat over our physical identities and.

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In that sense, that could mean social media on 2d devices that could mean

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virtual worlds and your virtual presence is as well, that could carry over to,

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this buzz on an NFTs and the, and the importance of having, specific being a

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part of specific clubs regarding the NFTs.

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I want to stay off of NFTs.

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I have to have another one on.

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But, yeah, so I don't know where this question was going, but yeah,

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I definitely think that that we are coming into that place and I actually

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just experienced it for myself.

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I had my own aha moment over.

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I was going to ask him about this.

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So tell the story, cause I want to hear,

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talked about it for about 10 seconds on your podcast.

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I want the longer version.

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So over the past few years, we've all of us have learned to develop relationships

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with people in a variety of capacities.

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A lot of mine were in, over zoom and in virtual spaces.

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Sure.

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A lot of people, which I haven't even met in real life thankfully

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I have met you in real life.

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But so I developed all these All these friends and

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different people in my network.

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And I was invited to a new year's party.

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Physical new year's party.

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I'm with my friends just started using the term physical and virtual.

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I know in real life, DRL is another acronym there that we use.

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And the physical parties and events are few and far between nowadays.

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So I was super excited to be able to go to something in real life.

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And I was at my friend's house and I brought my VR headset with me.

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And I, there were.

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Five other BR new year's Eve parties that I was invited to or knew of

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that I wanted to go in because they were all on different platforms.

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Different friends were going to be in different places.

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Different, special guests and celebrities and, music, appearance, appearances, and

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performances that were happening, seemed exciting, somewhat, sometimes even more

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exciting than what I was doing that night.

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And after the champagne pop, I excused myself and locked myself in a room.

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With my VR headset and started party hopping in the metaverse.

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And I was like, okay, like seven, take a break.

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I need to go visit my other friends and make my appearance there.

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So I knew I had people that were looking to see me.

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And so I brought on my VR headset and then I had people like, looking

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for me, over the course of the next, 30 minutes or so the door.

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And they see me in a room by myself with my headset and I'm like, okay,

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so I'm actually invited that's right.

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It dawned on me.

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I was actually invited to an in-person event.

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But I still brought along.

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It's a big VR headset.

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I had to bring a big purse to even fit it with me.

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It's not like I could bring my small cell phone.

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I brought my VR headset with me just so I could take a break and meet my

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other friends in virtual reality.

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During that part.

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So they didn't open up the door, finds you like dancing and

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drinking it with a headset on your head going, what are you doing?

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That's pretty much now for them to go in, but they weren't,

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they didn't seem as interested.

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But again, that's when people have fun in virtual reality, the people that I

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introduced them to, but it's not the same as when you develop relations.

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And you have other, you have it like a purpose driven

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need to go into these spaces.

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I don't know if I would have just brought a headset to be in a headset,

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but I knew people that were going to be in, in these, at these parties.

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I had developed relationships with these people.

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So I called the responsibility towards going into VR or as they, maybe

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some of my friends didn't feel that.

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So how well did that go over when they opened the door and they're

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like, Sophia, what are you doing?

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We're in this, we're in this room?

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Or did they just shut the door and go that's her just leave her alone.

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My nerdiness, my weirdness to them.

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They totally understood it.

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They know I live in VR anyways.

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A lot of my friends have also bought the headset because, I have one as well.

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And I try to introduce them to.

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The same applications that, that I like this diff the different events

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that I'm hosting are a part of.

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I find it hard to demo VR to people past just because th there are some good

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applications, but beat saber is fun.

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It's the most popular VR game on the market, but.

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It's not something that I want to, it depends who I'm demoing it to.

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It has to be the appropriate audience.

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So if I'm bringing a VR headset to a more maybe sophisticated audience, or

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maybe even like potential clients and those such things, it, I find it hard

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to find great demos that are out there unless, a company that I happened to be

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working with and I have access to content.

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Too, I can bring up a demo that is, that's been custom made.

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Cause often there's the graphics are just higher fidelity.

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It's again, more purpose-driven rather than just, seeing a BR environment like

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a gamified VR environment it's more like more serious focused I would say as well.

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So I find it hard to find demos that are open to the

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market to, to demonstrate, but.

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Google earth has also a really good one, just to show scalability

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of different perspectives.

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Yeah.

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And views of the world.

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No.

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That's awesome.

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I think there needs to be a standing party room.

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There's 24 7 that you use the, for a demo for pretty much every environment, just

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as a set that's the, that's always going to be the icing on the cake selling point.

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And Hey, when you're done with your work, walk into the party room.

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I actually, so part a part of this ready player, golf initiative, we

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host these monthly meetups in our clubhouse where it's more casual,

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get together as between industry professionals and one's happening today.

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I know this podcast is going to be released later on, but the recent.

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Friday of the month.

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So if you hear golf.com, it's a great way to experience a more

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serious social environment.

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I would say people that you know us, that we can relate to and talk to.

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So that's awesome.

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I had a blast.

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Thank you for educating me.

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Lower level of intellect on this where if people want to reach out,

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connect outside of your ready player golf, what's the best way for them to.

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LinkedIn I'm on LinkedIn, like 24, 7 Sophia Moshe.

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You can find me there.

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And I have other, on Twitter and on all of those at Sophia motion.

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Look me up on Google.

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You'll find bunch of resources there and I'll make sure to have the the bigger

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stuff in the show notes out of curiosity.

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While we're here.

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What is, you said you had built your own 3d website.

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What do you have the link for that?

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Yeah, I can sh I share the website with you as well.

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I I have a personal website that just has, some of the things that I, my initiatives

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that I do speaking the features and all that stuff, and I was like, I

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need to practice what I preach here.

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Made an example of it.

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But in display those items in some cool, unique ways and on the immersive web.

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And so that's why I, I did it.

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It was like, I just need a, I just need to get in and start creating myself.

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So I'll share that with you.

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And it's just more.

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All about me stuff, but it's good practical example for something that's

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new for 90, probably 9% of us that have not exactly other than the scratches

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sniff type of thing, where, ah, we saw it and then walked away, to be

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able to dive into it a little deeper.

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So yeah, I'll get that from you.

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I'll make sure that's in the show notes and all that kind of stuff.

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So really thank you.