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Meet Larry Burns, a leading voice in the world of mobility. From serving as Corporate VP of R&D for General Motors to consulting for tech companies like Waymo, Larry bridges the gap between legacy OEM and tech-startup worlds. 

During this episode of the Automotive Leaders podcast, Larry addresses critical questions about the EV startup DNA, what enables its success, and the challenges traditional automotive culture poses. He revealed why traditional OEMs struggled with EV innovation and discussed how leadership played into the success of tech companies like BYD and Tesla in the EV market. He highlights the need for empowerment and a culture that embraces failure as a learning opportunity.

Discussing the kind of leadership the auto industry needs, Larry advocates for the "power of and," suggesting that effective leadership encompasses multiple traits rather than a single characteristic, emphasizing empathy, teamwork, and setting the proper examples in leadership behavior.

Furthermore, Larry highlights the evolving nature of leadership in today's world, where personal and professional lives are intertwined. He stresses maintaining personal values while balancing work and family life.

As the podcast wrapped up, Larry said that moving from ICE to BEV marks only the beginning. He stressed how technology is reshaping travel habits and urged leaders to adapt. Larry emphasized how crucial it is for companies to grasp these changes in mobility and encouraged them to grab onto the new tech opportunities coming their way.

Themes discussed in this episode:

• The importance of authentic leadership traits in fostering innovative learning environments.
• Challenges in maintaining a healthy work-life balance, especially in demanding industries.
• The transition from Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) vehicles to Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs)
• The success of EV startups and their unique approach to technology.
• The impact of traditional automotive culture on hindering innovation.
• The transformative potential of communication and information technology in shaping the future of mobility.
• Difference between traditional OEM and EV startups

Featured: Larry Burns 

What he does: Larry is a prominent advisor in mobility, logistics, manufacturing, energy, and innovation. With a distinguished background as General Motors’ Corporate Vice President of Research & Development and Planning, Larry now consults for various organizations, including Kitson & Partners, Niron Magnetics, and Securing America’s Future Energy (SAFE). His expertise lies in autonomous electric vehicles and their transformative impact on transportation services, a topic he explores in his book “Autonomy: The Quest to Build the Driverless Car―And How It Will Reshape Our World.”

On leadership: “There’s not one magic pill a person can take to be a great leader. You must be very sensitive to the people you’re leading. If you don’t set the right examples in your behavior, whether it’s integrity or treating people with dignity and respect, if you overreact to someone who had a failure, that’ll spread throughout the organization instantly.”

Mentioned in this episode:

• Autonomy: The Quest to Build the Driverless Car―And How It Will Reshape Our World
• Reinventing the Automobile: Personal Urban Mobility for the 21st Century
• Episode with Alisyn Malek: How Alisyn Malek is shaping the future of mobility through collaboration, innovation, and leadership
• Tesla Model S and BYD Seagull
• Advanced Driver Assistance Systems (ADAS)
• Google X and Project Waymo
• The GM AUTOnomy
• The Opposable Mind: How Successful Leaders Win Through Integrative Thinking by Roger Martin
• They Made America: From the Steam Engine to the Search Engine: Two Centuries of Innovators by Harold Evans

Episode Highlights:

[00:03:07] EV Challenges: Jan poses the common question to Larry: Why do traditional automakers struggle with EV innovation? 

[00:06:35] Tesla and BYD’s DNA: Larry discusses Tesla and BYD's success in the electric vehicle market, crediting visionary leadership and iterative learning cycles. He stresses the importance of adaptable strategies and market-driven value propositions over rigid forecasts.

[00:14:25] Fostering Innovation: Larry and Jan discuss the necessity for the automotive industry to break free from past constraints and embrace innovation without fear of failure. Larry stresses leadership commitment to innovation and empowerment for fostering innovation.

[00:24:59] Leadership Traits: Larry discusses integrative thinking and the importance of empathy, teamwork, and setting the proper examples in behavior for effective leadership.

[00:29:26] Work-Life Balance: Larry shares personal experiences and advice on maintaining a work-life balance and prioritizing family time and integrity amidst career demands.

[00:36:21] Larry on Reimagining Mobility: Larry advises leaders to anticipate the impact of technology on their businesses, consider how technology is altering the reasons for travel, and identify the opportunities for value creation in this evolving landscape.

Top Quotes:

[00:12:37] Larry: “I think electrically driven vehicles are inevitable because Einstein taught us that the best design is the simplest one that works.  And these are very simple products once you get the supply chain and everything right. So, if that's an inevitability, you got to get in front of it, but you don't do that by betting the farm. You've got to do that by learning.

[00:24:28] Larry: “Everybody around the world has the same motivations that Americans have. They want to improve their lives for their kids, their families, and future generations. And they want to have a chance to realize their full potential as an individual. That's not unique to the United States. So, we've got to look at these challenges globally, and what's going on right now outside the US with these technologies is something that we really have to pay attention to.”

[00:25:58] Larry: “Really great CEOs have an integrative mind.  They connect the dots. They're not willing to accept the least bad of a set of bad options. They keep working for a better solution.”

[00:33:05] Larry: “The world's going to throw you curveballs. You have to be resilient. You have to bounce back from those. And you got to find time to have fun. You have to communicate with your family. But if you're in a big job in a big industry, you've got to make that a way of life and do that jointly with the people who are near and dear to you and understand that.”

[00:38:26] Larry: “I think the industry transformation will be even more profound than anyone could imagine, from simply switching from combustion to electric and human driving to autonomous driving. I think the big, most strategically important question for communications, information, transportation, and entertainment companies is: how will this come together and shape the way people live in the future?”

Mentioned in this episode:

This episode is sponsored by Lockton, click here to learn more

[Transcript]

This episode is brought to you by Lockton. Lockton redefines business insurance and people solutions with a personal touch. Their global team of 11,000 is driven by independence, not quarters, to tailor success for your business. Discover the Lockton difference where your goals become their mission. Independence it's not just how you think but how you act.

And that is, why is it the traditional OEMs struggle so much with EV design and innovation? Let me give you an example of that in action. I recently interviewed Alisyn Malek. Alisyn started her career back in 2008, working on an EV for General Motors, and we still can't get the thing launched and making money properly. So why is it, Larry? With your background and the work that you've been doing with your clients, you are in a unique position to answer this question. Tell us.

I think much of what we're talking about here today, Jan, is inevitable. Yes, battery electric vehicles are hitting the wall a little bit, but it's the fastest-growing segment in the US industry. The media tends to run or report it as negative. I see that as an encouraging sign. And I also see hydrogen and fuel cells coming in to play along with the batteries. That will get us there. So, I think electrically driven vehicles are inevitable because Einstein taught us that the best design is the simplest one that works. And these are very simple products once you get the supply chain and everything right. So, if that's an inevitability, you got to get in front of it, but you don't do that by betting the farm. You've got to do that by learning. And stick, stay the course with those learning cycles. Where you really become vulnerable in the industry is when you get behind. I'll give the example of hybrids when I was at General Motors; Toyota launched the Prius, that Prius that they brought to market had a couple learning cycles in Japan already. So, I think it was a Gen 3 Prius that they brought to California. And then, they had a couple of learning cycles before GM, Ford, and others said, "Maybe we should do something with hybrids." Jan, we were so far behind at that point in time that no matter how good the hybrid was that General Motors brought from market. We couldn't penetrate the Prius brand equity and the Prius leadership position. So, if the auto companies believe electrically driven vehicles are inevitable, they've got to get in front of that with learning. If they believe, like I do, that autonomous vehicles are inevitable, you've got to get in front of it by learning, and you can learn from your Advanced Driver Assistance Systems (ADAS); you can learn your way in that direction. But to stand there and say, "I don't think all autonomous vehicles are ever going to happen," and manage your company accordingly is just too risky if something appears inevitable. I haven't been told by any of the cutting-edge experts that I've worked with on autonomous vehicles, the real leaders on the edge of knowledge creation, I haven't been told by any of them that 'I don't think they can get this job done.' So, it's inevitable, Jan. I can't predict when. You've got to focus on 'do unto yourself before others do unto you.' And I think the US auto industry leadership has had a bit of a challenge with that. Either they're making too big of a bet. 'I'm going to turn my entire portfolio onto electric vehicles before I've learned what I needed to learn about my battery manufacturer.' Or they've been in denial too long and they can't get back in the game and catch up.

And that, to me, Larry, I think that seems to me, that's what's happening. We can't let the past go, right?

But you have to have the commitment to the future and be prepared for that. So, Rick and I sat down for lunch one day, and soon after, he named me head of R&D., And we got talking about, gosh, if we were going to invent the automobile in 1998, instead of the late 1800s, early 1900s, what would we do different? And he said, 'Larry, that's what I want you to answer. Because I just felt like we needed this new design DNA.' I said, 'Rick, we would probably base it on an electrical architecture, not mechanical, but we certainly would do something about the human driving behaviors that lead to so many fatalities.' And all of that grew a concept vehicle called Autonomy. It was shown at the 2002 North American International Auto Show. It was a skateboard. It was the first skateboard that was shown at an auto show. And it was a remarkable opportunity for a small team of people within a huge company, General Motors to express themselves on what they would do if they had a clean sheet of paper. I had a boss that let me do that, Jan. And I think that's really important for all of the leaders in this industry to carve out enough resource and give enough empowerment to let people develop these ideas.

I lived in Franklin, Michigan, so the drive was 75 minutes. And the agreement I have with my wife she would drop the kids off at the daycare in the morning when she was heading to the hair salon. Well, I had to pick them up at night, and the daycare closed at six. And so, every evening after putting in a very long day—many times starting up in Lansing at four or five in the morning to look at the product that had been built the night before—I'm screaming down I-96 with this image of my kids sitting on the curb because I didn't get there by six o'clock. Yeah, but you make that kind of a thing work, Jan. I mean, you have to. With all of that said, I would not trade my jam career at all. Yes, we went bankrupt and all of that. But man, and I learned this from Mark Rice. This was a long time ago when we had a discussion, but we were talking about what's so passionate. And he said, 'Larry, Prince has this song, Little Red Corvette. He didn't sing Little Red Laptop Computer.' And Mark was saying to me that what makes this industry great is the passion around the product that you get to make. And he was absolutely right. It's a remarkable industry in terms of its global scale and scope, in terms of the technologies that you get to work with, in terms of what the cars do, enabling the freedom of people to go where they want to when they want to. To be able to be part of that at the highest level of the largest company at the time is something I would never give up. Going bankrupt wasn't a great experience. But there was life after bankruptcy as well. You just have to bounce back and go after it.

I think the big, most strategically important question for communications, information, transportation, and entertainment companies is: how is all this going to come together and shape the way people live in the future? Where are the value creation sweet spots in that future? And how do I need to prepare my company to go after those opportunities?