The Bible says, "No one seeks after God." Yet every day we meet people searching for purpose, meaning, spirituality, and truth. How can both be true?

In this episode, George Binoka and Jeff Musgrave begin a new series exploring one of the most important questions in theology and evangelism: Why don't people naturally seek God?

Together they examine what Scripture teaches about the human heart, the effects of sin, our natural desires, and why people often search everywhere except the one place where true satisfaction can be found. They also discuss why understanding the condition of the human heart is essential for effective evangelism and discipleship.

If you've ever wondered why some people seem interested in spiritual things while others reject God entirely, this episode will help you think biblically about salvation, evangelism, and the human condition.

Topics Covered:

• What Romans 3 means when it says no one seeks God

• Why people still search for meaning and purpose

• How sin affects human desires

• Are people neutral toward God?

• The difference between seeking fulfillment and seeking God

• Why religion itself cannot solve the human problem

• How understanding the human heart makes us better evangelists

The reality of man's condition may seem discouraging, but it sets the stage for one of the greatest phrases in all of Scripture: "But God..."

So the Bible says nobody seeks after God.

2

And yet we meet people all the time in churches and Christians who claim they're searching

for him, or non b non-Christians, non-believers who claim they're searching for him.

3

Is the Bible contradicting reality?

4

Are we misunderstanding what it means to seek after God?

5

Today we're diving into one of Christianity's most fascinating questions.

6

If no one seeks God naturally, why does anybody seek?

7

Or seem to be searching for him.

8

You guys in the audience, a lot of you, I would think all of you, are thoughtful

Christians who want to understand why some people come to Christ while others reject him

9

and what that means for evangelism, prayer, and assurance.

10

Welcome everybody to Gospel Talks Podcast, where we help Christians all over the world

become more effective in relational evangelism and discipleship.

11

My name is George Binoco, and with me today is Jeff Musgrave.

12

He's the author and founder of the exchange and we're excited to jump into this deep topic

series with you today.

13

Hey Jeff, how you doing?

14

I'm doing good.

15

It's good to be back into the steep digital studio.

16

I've been ha having to do our podcast from home a couple of last last couple of times, so

it's kinda fun.

17

And I think we got a little bit of an upgrade.

18

So some new equipment, some new lighting, good stuff.

19

Very appreciative of Jonathan and his ministry to the exchange.

20

It's it I I can actually read my notes very easily, so

21

Brand new teleprompter.

22

Those things are awesome.

23

well, I think we're gonna call this episode Nobody Seeks After God.

24

Yet some to be seem to be seeking, which is this backwards thing.

25

We're kind of getting into that, some of that sticky theology of, you know, election or

predestination and God drawing people and that kind of thing.

26

And so there's some some very complicated stuff.

27

I am genuinely curious on this topic.

28

It's gonna be a great series, I believe.

29

Um, but why don't we just go ahead and start with this?

30

I mean, as you prepare to answer some of the questions for you, what's the big idea here

in your mind?

31

What's the thing we're focused on?

32

Yeah, I I think we're actually looking at the the inner workings of the human heart.

33

How d how does it actually work?

34

And what what prompts desire inside the human heart?

35

you know, our our desire is is naturally for the the things of this world.

36

And frankly, the Bible says we're all born sinners.

37

Our natural desire is towards sin.

38

his natural desire, God's natural desire, the the f the heart of the Father, is for us to

live in uh a living, loving relationship with him.

39

And and so I think that's really the issue of where we're gonna go with all of this.

40

I this episode, if I understand it, we're actually going to try to figure out what what

goes on with the unregenerate human heart?

41

What is the what do we know

42

about how that works and and maybe a little bit about how the Holy Spirit interacts with

that and and enters into uh the natural proclivity of the human heart.

43

Hmm.

44

So b jumping right off on that, okay, w what you just said there, scripture says nobody

seeks for God.

45

What does that actually mean?

46

Why don't people seek God?

47

Yeah.

48

Well, I I think i any time you're going to try to r understand a concept that you get from

scripture, you have to kind of look at the whole.

49

And so I thought it it's it's a bit of a long passage, but I thought it would be wise for

us to just look at the whole passage where that concept is taken from.

50

So it's it's basically from Romans chapter three, uh, and uh it starts in verse ten and

it's quoting from the old testament, as it is written, none

51

is righteous know not one.

52

No one understands.

53

No one seeks for God.

54

And that's the direct quote that you brought out.

55

And then it goes on and it says, all have turned aside.

56

Together they have become worthless.

57

No one does good, not even one.

58

Now you have you have to kind of stop and ask this question.

59

Well, wait a minute, I know people that that do good things, but the question mark is

60

Number one, why are they doing good things?

61

And number two, i is it all good?

62

And the answer is no.

63

There there is clearly sin mixed with good.

64

Even those of us who know Jesus as savior are not perfected yet and we're still s living

sinful lives.

65

Sin is still present in our members.

66

And here it goes on and describes the unregenerate man, their feet are swift, and I'm

gonna skip a few verses.

67

in their paths are ruin and misery.

68

So literally our natural proclivity as a human without Jesus is to run swiftly into ruin

and misery through sin.

69

The way of peace they've not known.

70

There's no fear of God in their eyes.

71

And then it interrupts the thought because it's giving us the solution as well as the

problem.

72

We're not going to look at the solution.

73

This uh

74

moment we're answering the question why do people not seek after God?

75

But the the uh intro or the intra interruption that we see here in the passage is showing

us the purpose of the law and letting us recognize there is a righteousness found outside

76

the law.

77

So we can kind of stop and put a hold on everything we're thinking and recognize

78

The reason we can be righteous is because there is a righteousness outside of the legal

requirements from the law.

79

And then it goes on and gives us the final reason why people don't seek after God.

80

And it's it says, for all have sinned.

81

We've all come short, fallen short of the glory of God.

82

And so

83

the question, Mark, is you know, why don't people seek God?

84

And the but the answer is because we are born sinners.

85

David said it this way, in sin did my mother conceive me.

86

And the the idea is that through the bloodline of Adam, every single human was born with a

proclivity to sin.

87

Um when I'm teaching young

88

High school students, I will ask them, uh, does everybody in here remember the day that

your that your mother set you down and said, today I'm gonna teach you how to steal your

89

brother's toys?

90

Uh, you know, it n nobody taught us how to do that.

91

It just it it came naturally because we were born sinners.

92

And the the fact is, every human is born a sinner, born astray and a apart from God.

93

And literally the Bible says that no one is looking for God.

94

All of our feet are swift to run to destruction and misery.

95

There's no fear of God in our eyes.

96

Uh that and this is this is the word that I think is really important for us.

97

Together they have become worthless.

98

the idea is that we we are not worthy of.

99

a relationship with God and specifically heaven because our hearts are full of sinfulness.

100

So going right off of that, we've said many times on this podcast, me and you both have

said, and I think believe, there we find people that are just open, searching for meaning,

101

searching for purpose, spirituality, you know, they've got those deep soul questions.

102

How do we reconcile that, you know, the visual uh evidence, you could say.

103

With what you're just talking about right here in the Bible that no one seeks after God.

104

I mean it's definitely there.

105

yeah, yeah.

106

I th I think that the real issue here is what what what do we mean by seeking after God

and and what does the Bible mean.

107

Romans eight, seven, it's actually after a person is saved and it's kind of giving us a

picture of what our life was like before we knew Jesus and what our life is like now.

108

It's a it's a really awesome portion of the book of Romans.

109

But he tells us something about the sin nature in humans.

110

And he says, for the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God.

111

Uh it it and then it goes on and says, For it does not submit to God's law, indeed cannot.

112

And I think that's a real important thing for us to recognize is

113

Our unregenerate hearts are hostile towards God.

114

we literally are not willing to submit.

115

That's really the issue.

116

and I do think that some people recognize the emptiness of their own hearts.

117

we've also said this: that God uh put eternity into the heart of men.

118

And so there are there there's it's almost like we could say there's this empty place.

119

inside of the human soul.

120

And God it's it's like a he he put a place in our hearts for himself.

121

And because of our sin nature, uh we're not willing to pursue him.

122

In fact we're we're hostile to God, we're rebellious against his commands to us.

123

and so we recognize there's something that we need but

124

We we don't know what it is.

125

And and when we find people searching, and we say they're searching for God, uh, the

reality is that that they are searching for something, frankly, something else, something

126

they can control, something they can this desire from their human fleshly side to that

would satisfy them.

127

What they're looking for.

128

is something that would satisfy the deep soul need of their heart.

129

But we know that really what they need is God.

130

So when we say people are seeking after God, that's really what we're saying is they're

they're looking for something to satisfy that need, and they don't even know that it's God

131

yet.

132

Hmm.

133

So, I mean, one of the things you hear a lot in the United States right now is the decline

of religion.

134

Kind of playing off what you've just said there, is the problem that people basically lack

religion?

135

Is is it a different problem altogether?

136

are they resistant towards the idea of God?

137

What do you believe is the core problem driving?

138

that lack of natural desire to seek.

139

Yeah, well, they are seeking.

140

They're just typically seeking in all the wrong places.

141

And quite frankly, George, religion is one of the wrong places that people look.

142

false religion is either a human creation or in some respects, I believe it's a demonic

creation designed to meet the needs of the human soul without God.

143

And that that's that's really the the issue.

144

Tim Keller said it this way.

145

Idols of the heart refer to internalized forms of idolatry.

146

Sometimes we call it idols of the heart, where the heart becomes the seat of false worship

and misplaced devotions.

147

Unlike physical idols, they're not tangible objects, but anything that absorbs our

thoughts, energy, and emotions more than God does, such as wealth.

148

Relationships, ambitions, personal achievements, those are all idols.

149

They're false worship.

150

it goes on in the quote that I was reading.

151

Essentially, an idol is anything that promises fulfillment or security apart from God.

152

It becomes the controlling focus of life.

153

So that's

154

That's literally what's happening.

155

If when people do search for God in religion, they're looking for something that can fill

that need that isn't the Lord.

156

I mean, that's really the word Lord is a is a very essential word.

157

it is the natural hostility toward God and r rebellion against his commands.

158

those those hostilities, those refusal to bow the knee, so to speak.

159

What we want is something that will satisfy the need, but not make me bow my knee.

160

Hmm.

161

So the the issue there then is human desire.

162

as you've studied scripture, how I mean, where do you go to f answer the question how has

sin affected human desire at its core?

163

Obviously we're we're we come out bent.

164

Like you said, mom doesn't have to sit down and tell you how to steal your siblings' toys.

165

But

166

And what specifically how has sp specifically sin affected human desire?

167

Well, I think that the the key, I mean, e everybody will admit I'm a sinner.

168

Everybody admits that.

169

I mean I've I really have never talked to anyone who has not eventually recognized their

own bent to sinfulness.

170

Um I'm it's just human.

171

In fact, people will say, Well, you know, of course.

172

I mean, everybody does that.

173

It's you know, we're all human.

174

I mean that that those are

175

it's almost like sinfulness and human fit in the same mind space in our brains.

176

But the Bible tells us that God is holy and that his holiness and our sinfulness separate

us.

177

And that's the I think when we're talking about you know w how has sin affected us at a c

at our core, the taint of sin

178

is ultimately, and in fact I think this is the the key taint is separation from God.

179

Um the Bible says that God is of pure eyes, can't behold evil, and literally can't let it

be in his presence.

180

And so because sin by definition of scripture is lawlessness or rebellion against God and

his law, our sin

181

i estranges us from him so e it it it's kind of like a fish doesn't really recognize water

because he lives in it.

182

We don't really recognize uh our our sinfulness because we live in it.

183

but but God cannot have a relationship with someone who has sin in their lives.

184

it sometimes people say well that's a little picky isn't it well

185

think about this.

186

When the Bible says you shall not commit adultery, that's one of the laws that we we have

a tendency to rebel against.

187

Um and and the reason I say tendency to rebel against it is because there's not a human on

earth that hasn't had adulterous thoughts and sometimes even steps of actions in their

188

lives.

189

And we we totally get the relational side of that.

190

When a man commits adultery against his wife, he offends her.

191

And and a a good wife is going to to react to that.

192

it also offends God.

193

In fact, God wrote that law because of his nature.

194

His nature is a nature of of loyalty, of faithfulness.

195

and and so this devotion from God demands that we live lives.

196

of devotion.

197

And so when when a man commits adultery, not only does he offend his wife and breaks that

relationship, but he actually has offended God and breaks that relationship.

198

That's that's the real core taint or damage to the human soul.

199

Let me just kind of go one more from that because I think adultery may be a reach because

people think, yeah, well I've I've never done that.

200

I've never cheated on my wife or whatever.

201

you know, the in the same set of laws, God says you should not lie.

202

And that's one of those places, well, yeah, everybody does that.

203

I mean, what's the big deal about that?

204

Well, the the the big deal is, I mean, we're talking about the the the taint or the core

damage to the human soul.

205

God is truth, and every time I lie, I separate myself from God and His truth.

206

And that's the big deal.

207

Sin is

208

Our sin separates us.

209

So, you know, the the question was, uh, what is the the effect on on human desire?

210

Well, it it breaks our relationship with God.

211

And frankly, I meet people all the time.

212

It says, it seems to me like if there really was a God, I would know it.

213

I mean, I would feel it, I would sense it.

214

But but our our sinfulness has literally separated us so far that

215

That we don't even sense his presence anymore.

216

Does that make sense?

217

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

218

So would it be fair to say then, listening to you, that apart from Christ, I mean it's not

just people they're not just neutral towards God, because there's a lot of talk out there.

219

I mean, there's a lot of people who posture themselves like, no, no, I'm not I'm not

against God.

220

I'm not against r you know, church and the Bible.

221

but but I mean, apart from Christ, people are actually hostile towards God.

222

Yeah.

223

And in fact, Jesus said that men love darkness rather than light because their deeds are

evil.

224

And then he r likened himself to light.

225

And he said, When I came into the world, I shone light onto their sinfulness and they

hated me.

226

That really was the core of why the majority of humans during Christ's time

227

came to the conclusion we have to crucify him, we have to kill him, we have to get rid of

him.

228

And he said the reason they hate me is because I've shown light into their lives.

229

So that that really is it is fair to say that no one is neutral towards God.

230

In fact, here is a another place where it gives us a picture of the human soul apart from

God.

231

It's in Ephesians chapter two.

232

Ephesians chapter two it says

233

You were dead in trespasses in sin, and uh in which you walked and you followed the course

of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at

234

work in the sons of disobedience.

235

So this we haven't even talked about this, but th there are there is another enemy in this

world.

236

Sin is is fueled by that enemy.

237

And it is Satan himself, and Satan uses sin to control those desires of a human heart.

238

He says, among whom we all once lived in the passion of our flesh, carrying out the

desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath like the rest of

239

mankind.

240

So that

241

That's a description of who we are apart from Jesus.

242

I I I do think we need to put a little bit of hope in this discussion.

243

And the very next words in verse four are, but God being rich in mercy because of his

great love with which he loved us.

244

And I I just love I I feel like I need to praise the Lord for this contrasting

conjunction, but

245

There this is who I am apart from Jesus, but God in his rich mercy and in his great love

reaches out.

246

And that's why, I mean, we're the original question was, you know, drawing men, God

drawling, what is going on with this?

247

And that that's that's the hope we have to look to.

248

Hm.

249

That's amazing.

250

I mean, at this point, I mean, if I were to advocate for the listeners, there's probably

somebody wondering right now, why is any of this talking about man's sinful desires, how

251

we're bent, why is any of that essential to understanding the gospel?

252

I mean, shouldn't we just make a beeline for the cross?

253

Isn't that, you know, something Spurgeon said?

254

Yeah.

255

Well, I I I'm I'm I'm got some notes up in front of this.

256

I'm just gonna s skip off uh some of those and and head to your question.

257

it it is interesting when Jesus dealt with people, he knew the specifics of their hearts.

258

I mean he so in other words, he knew what

259

idols they had stuffed in that spot.

260

He he he knew what they were trying to do to satisfy.

261

He knew what hungers they recognized they still had.

262

I mean he knew all of this.

263

And so he could deal with individuals and we've talked about this before.

264

Uh he dealt with individuals differently and he just went straight at the heart of the

issue because he already knew all of that.

265

We aren't God.

266

And we can't see into the hearts of the people we uh meet.

267

But we do have God's word.

268

And we do have the ability to recognize that every human soul was built for eternity, but

is empty without God.

269

And so I er when I get ready to talk to someone that doesn't know Jesus, there's stuff I

know about them that they don't know I know about them, because not because I know them,

270

but because I know what God said about them.

271

And so I I can I can know.

272

That every single person without Jesus, no matter how satisfied they look, no matter how

satisfied they sound, there's an empty spot inside of them that was built for eternity.

273

And unless they know God, it's still empty.

274

Yeah, um you know, a lot of what you're saying is hitting me because I'm working through

the book of Luke and Jesus the first time he debuts his message in Galilee, the area of

275

Israel where he's from, he does so in a synagogue and they try to push him off a cliff.

276

The second time that Jesus launches off in Galilee's in Capernaum, which becomes his

ministry hub.

277

The first place he goes to preach his message is a synagogue, which is his routine.

278

And what he finds there is a demon-possessed, unclean demon possessing a man.

279

And we often think of these places of religion as the fortresses, spiritual fortresses of

the world.

280

Yet the place where Jesus almost every conversation went wrong and became a confrontation

six times in the book of Luke.

281

was always a place of religion.

282

Yeah.

283

I just I find that interesting.

284

Yeah.

285

And I think that um I think that when people are how do I say this?

286

If we know that they're looking and sometimes just showing up at church shows us that

they're looking.

287

There's all different kinds of things that give us that picture.

288

e everybody kind of demonstrates that differently.

289

Does that make sense?

290

I mean

291

And frankly, everybody looks at it different for it different in different places.

292

Some people try to stuff sex and alcohol and drugs.

293

I mean, they're they're they're looking for the same thing everybody else is looking for.

294

They're just you looking for it in different places.

295

some people are going to look for it at at religious places.

296

It feels like I need something and I think I should do that.

297

since we know the real need of every single human, I believe.

298

This is where we can strategically aim our conversations deeper so that we begin to give

them room and space to to talk about what's going on in there, to show us their fears,

299

their emptiness, their longings, their pursuits.

300

And as they begin to reveal their hearts and we begin to discover their souls, then

301

we can introduce them to the rescuer.

302

I I think if we're just meeting people and we think, I know their need, they need Jesus.

303

I'm going to introduce them to the rescuer.

304

And and we don't kind of walk that path to get to the place where we can recognize their

need and help them to see how the rescuer can deliver them from that.

305

That that then sometimes we've missed a step and they don't get the connection.

306

Yeah, you know, we just finished this series with Divine Appointments.

307

And now we're talking about nobody's really seeking.

308

And I gotta tell you, some of this theology is just scary to me because I already I

already sometimes look at the world a little bit discouraged and it feels a little the

309

outlook feels bleak.

310

There's that him, forget the Christian artist.

311

his first name is Chris.

312

I forget his last name, but he writes, do you feel the world is broken?

313

Uh do you feel Yeah, yeah.

314

And and so we're going from talking about divine appointments that people are coming to

saying, Well, they don't r they're not really seeking.

315

And the next question we're gonna ask, and I think we're gonna ask it in the next episode,

is Is God drawing them?

316

What does that look like?

317

Because

318

A lot of us believers are hanging on to that truth for dear life.

319

Because we hate to see people die and go to a place called hell.

320

we'd much rather see them in heaven.

321

And this can be scary theology, frustrating theology, but it's so important the stuff

you're taking us through.

322

Um, and I think you masterfully took us through biblically the scariest stuff.

323

For me, this is that was one of the scarier

324

you know, parts of this whole series.

325

Um

326

real scary part of it is it's it's true, and there's literally nothing I can do to change

that.

327

But God in his rich mercy.

328

I mean, that's that's where we're going.

329

This is this is a reality that God is still in the saving business.

330

He's still in the world, searching soul for souls and wooing souls to himself.

331

And so that's the hope of where we'll go next week.

332

Yep.

333

Well, thank you guys so much for listening.

334

you listening, you subscribing, that's the stuff that makes sure this podcast gets in

front of other believers who need to be encouraged, who need to walk through these these

335

biblical, very, very biblical the theological topics and that are practical as well.

336

big shout out to our donors.

337

Thank you so much.

338

Even the you those who are faithful just donating ten dollars a month or

339

Whatever, there's a lot of you out there like that, and it's it's very much the thing that

keeps this this going.

340

It's what underwrites our our ministry.

341

if you don't have an exchange Bible study, you should pick one up.

342

it it is not long, it is four truths about God, and it is for me the best way to

relationally walk somebody through the gospel.

343

and give them a full picture of God at the same time.

344

So it's 150 Bible verses.

345

You're gonna want to grab one of those.

346

It's the price of a cup of coffee, maybe even less.

347

With inflation, probably less.

348

And I'd really encourage you guys to to pick up one of those.

349

Go to exchangemessage.org forward slash store.

350

Pray to the Lord of the harvest that he would send forth laborers.

351

We say it every episode and it's true even after what Jeff took us through

352

He's going to show us in the next one.

353

The harvest is plentiful.

354

That's not the problem.

355

God is drawing, but the laborers are few.

356

Who's there to to catch them?

357

And so uh let's uh let's look forward to that next episode in this series.

358

We love you guys, and we'll see you next week.