Some may say that Seattle is not a four-hour car-ride from Spokane, but rather a whole world away. What even happens there? Is their mayor actually a communist? Does all authentic grunge music still emerge fully formed from its music scene? Does a Kraken actually live in the sound, or is that just the hockey team? While Seattle is WAY out of our coverage area, we're stepping out of our comfort zone to meet a few of our favorite west siders in Wenatchee!

In just a few weeks, we're going to confer with CHUM News to swap stories from both sides of the state, fact check myths about our cities and talk about the news that impacts everyone across Washington. In anticipation of this Midstate Meet-up, we had CHUM on the pod to chat about what they're building. We talked arts and culture, data centers and got Seattle recs from the locals.

As Spokane journalists, we want to ask CHUM all the most important questions when we meet them in person next week, so drop us a line: What do you want us to fact check about Seattle? What do you want to know about the west side?

Hi, I'm Erin.

2

This is Luke.

3

Today we're calling in with some

special guests from Seattle.

4

We're here with Adam and Maran from Chum

News, which is a really cool media outlet,

5

again, based out of Seattle, Washington,

and we're here for a very specific reason.

6

Yeah.

7

We're here as a preview of what we're

calling the Mid-State Meetup, which

8

we'll tell you about in a little bit.

9

But for right now, let's tell

you a little bit more about Chum.

10

all right, you guys are a relatively

new news outlet based out of

11

Seattle, and we'd love for you…

12

And when Erin told me about you guys,

'cause she discovered y'all first

13

at least over in our newsroom I was

really delighted to see that it's a

14

mix of n- news and culture reporting.

15

So will you just give the listeners,

the elevator pitch on what you guys are

16

doing over there in Seattle with Chum?

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Ron, do you wanna take this one?

18

I feel like you- you're

good elevator pitch guy.

19

Yeah.

20

So, a big part what we're trying

do is just kind of increase

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the amount of opportunities for

different stories that, we don't

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We, we wanna help create more space for

more people to have places to put a story,

23

is really the simplest way to put it.

24

I think that the Greater Seattle area

has a lot of great publications, but

25

it felt like a big part of why me and

Adam even started this was because we

26

were hoping to just help increase the

space for maybe something that's a

27

little harder to place, like a, a story

that they don't necessarily find a

28

People can't necessarily find a home for.

29

And so just trying to create

a, a, an opportunity for, you

30

know, arts and culture pieces

to tie into political coverage.

31

But again, maybe there's a spin on it

or an approach to it that's not how

32

you usually g- approach the story So

Adam, before you jumped on- … you

33

were talking before we got on

about, a story you were tr- a labor

34

story you were trying to run down.

35

And then when we were chatting a couple

weeks ago, I went and looked at your

36

guys' site and saw just like things

that I remember doing when I was in,

37

on the ar- arts and culture team at

our, our alt-weekly here in Spokane.

38

it was a, it was like a conversation,

like a, a piece of poetry in

39

conversation with a piece of, visual art.

40

So it's not, these aren't just feature

stories you're writing about people.

41

You're kind of doing these form-busting,

format-busting things, which is

42

cool and feels very alt-weekly to

me, even though you guys are…

43

You're digital, but it still

feels very much in that spirit.

44

Right.

45

And I mean, that's definitely

an aspiration is to move into

46

print eventually over time.

47

Oh, really?

48

It's just a question of, of

resources on, on all sorts of fronts,

49

material, time, and otherwise.

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But yeah, I mean, I think part of it

to, to tack on to what Maran was saying,

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both of us have been journalists and

freelancers, for quite a while, and we

52

felt as though when we have exciting

local stories for all sorts of reasons,

53

both sort of the incumbent media

landscape and also the rates that a lot

54

of incumbent local media outlets pay,

we kinda felt like we had to leapfrog

55

towards like, you know, the Guardians and

The New York Times of the media world.

56

Mm.

57

And that's kind of unfortunate because

we would love to spend more time

58

writing alongside and for our neighbors.

59

Mm-hmm.

60

So that was, so that was sort of a big

impetus for it, in addition to sort

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of feeling like there wasn't really a

dedicated home for arts and culture as

62

the primary lens for understanding the

Seattle news landscape, um- Interesting

63

and developments.

64

So yeah, you know, you c- y- there's

a lot of sort of a- associated

65

press style coverage or things that

are a little bit more cut and dry.

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There's a lot of political coverage

that really gets into like the

67

rabble-rousy side of things,

which often can be productive, but

68

sometimes can be a little exhausting.

69

And it felt as though sort of

understanding our material everyday

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lives and understanding sort of

structural dynamics in the city, but

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doing that through a creative lens

that engages people and maybe flexes

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a different muscle could be a, a way

to get more folks interested in news

73

beyond sort of what already existed.

74

That's interesting.

75

And to, and to add to

that too, you know, or-

76

Nope, you first.

77

Sorry.

78

Yeah, I was just gonna say to

add to that too, you know, a big

79

goal of ours is ultimately, um,

different kinds of readers who are

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looking for different kind of things

interacting you know, coming, coming

81

to Chum to read about an arts piece.

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But as you get to know our work, it's

an opportunity to then see, oh, there's

83

also political coverage in this space.

84

So it's like instead of just kind of

becoming siloed into certain maybe

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perspectives or certain topics, the

idea, g- you know, the goal ultimately

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is to have people who come to us and are

maybe passively even touching into other

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topics they might not know a lot about,

and just trying to, you know, bring in

88

different types of readers to kind of

bottleneck through Chum into experiencing

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different types of things about the city

90

That's cool.

91

I'm curious, how did you guys both get

into journalism and how did you meet

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each other and kind of create, like how

did Chum come to be between you two?

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I- I'll start, I guess.

94

Uh, so- You wanna take that

or you want me to take that?

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Well, I guess a- Cool … a

little bit I'll give you.

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We'll do … How about this, Adam?

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We'll do individual kind

of backgrounds, right?

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'Cause I think part of the question

was how we got into journalism.

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Sure, sure, sure.

100

And then we'll talk about how we met.

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Um- Yeah … I've, so I've been, yeah,

I've been a professional photojournalist

102

for oof, o- over 10 years now.

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Um, and it's something that I've, I've

built a career in on the East Coast,

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but then I, I, I grew up in Seattle

and came, made my way back home.

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And it was interesting to come back and

experience the city from a journalistic

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lens versus like, you know, just growing

up there se- Seattle specifically.

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And so it's something that was already,

you know, creatively career-wise a part

108

of my life, and something I'd built a

career in with, through photojournalism.

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But then, you know, when me and Adam

met it became kind of the idea of like,

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oh, how much, how can we help add to

the kind of journalist and media space?

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I'll let Adam answer how we met.

112

Yeah.

113

S- so also just a, a quick background

of my own sort of path to journalism.

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Uh, I moved to Seattle…

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I have, I have family who's lived in

the Seattle area for a long time, but I

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moved here from the New York City area

117

started sort of full-time freelancing.

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And I sort of pretty quickly was sh-

I guess struck by just how many really

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important stories get a start in Seattle

and maybe, like, don't get the national

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attention that they should have, let

alone sort of the Pacific Northwest writ

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large, but don't get the coverage that

they should because King County has a

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below average journalist per capita ratio

relative to Washington State and relative

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to the country writ large as well.

124

Oh, interesting.

125

Um, yeah.

126

And so, you know, if, if…

127

A- and not to make everything comparative

to New York at all, which I find an

128

exhaustive and exhausting exercise.

129

Um, but you know, if we had the kind of

density of writers that New York City

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has and the density of outlets that

New York City has even proportionally,

131

there's so many stories that get a

start here that never got adequate- Yeah

132

coverage.

133

In a way that's sort of-

Totally … socially deleterious.

134

Thinking about, like, Amazon labor

practices, thinking about, like, you

135

know, things going on at Starbucks,

uh, the kinds of tech outlets

136

that get started here sort of tech

startups that get started here.

137

There's, there's a lot that happens

that, that we overlook because we're

138

sort of sequestered in a corner

of the country to some extent.

139

Pablo Torre, Pablo Torre just won a

Pulitzer Prize for a story about the

140

LA Clippers basically avoiding the

salary cap by getting weirdo startups.

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And of course, the Clippers owner

is Steve Ballmer, who's like- Yeah.

142

… has Seattle connections too.

143

So like, even like- Mm-hmm … the

national stories have Seattle, or

144

like even like national stories that

involve tech usually have Seattle roots.

145

It's kind of wild to think about.

146

Right.

147

Totally.

148

Right.

149

But anyway, yeah, sorry to have

dragged on m- my little soapbox there.

150

But- Yeah … as far as how we met my

sort of freshman year roommate from

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college and Maron's now fiance used

to be room- used to be roommates.

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And so we met five years ago, I wanna say.

153

Yeah, about.

154

I wanna say about five years ago.

155

Maybe 21.

156

Yeah.

157

Mm-hmm.

158

And the two of us fairly early on

just sort of started riffing about-

159

I don't know, just like publications

we really liked and that we looked

160

up to, and also sort of, commiserated

about our own sort of lives as

161

full-time journalists around here.

162

And after a while we're sort of like,

well, it would be nice to contribute

163

to that in some sort of infrastructural

way that can also be benefit to more

164

people and, and be a go-to early stage

destination for, you know, journalists

165

who are trying to launch their own

careers or people who are poets

166

who, you know, have, have convincing

sort of storytelling panache- Mm-hmm

167

um, and are able to, you know, tap

into other modalities to sort of

168

still have like well-told local

news delivered to, to an audience.

169

So that's the…

170

Yeah.

171

Yeah.

172

So I was gonna…

173

The next question was gonna be

a kinda like what makes you guys

174

different from other Seattle media.

175

I kinda think one of the things you

already touched on a couple times

176

now, and I'd love to get a little bit

deeper on is like it's pretty obvious

177

the way that you guys are different.

178

And one of the ways I think maybe Mehran

you, you said it this way, but like…

179

So all weeklies are, and, you

know, a lot of daily papers have

180

arts coverage, sports coverage,

cultural coverage alongside news.

181

The way you guys framed what you're

doing is news through the lens of arts.

182

Like what does that, how does that show up

in your guys' writing or is it re- is it

183

just kind of like, you know, arts coverage

and, and news coverage sitting alongside?

184

Yeah, it's an interesting question.

185

I mean, I think that first and foremost

in, you know, as, as kinda operating

186

as kind of creative direction for Chum,

it's been for me something I really

187

try to think a lot about is even if

the topic is, Pretty cut and dry.

188

Maybe, you know, I, I, in

terms of straightforward.

189

You know, something for example is we

had a great piece about who's auditing

190

Seattle's surveillance cameras.

191

Mm.

192

But I think that that was a great

opportunity in my opinion, you know,

193

where maybe we could have found some AP

photos or something that like kind of

194

like a very generic image that to tie

into that just to help tell the story.

195

Whereas I thought it was a great

opportunity to reach out to somebody an

196

artist who I, you know, I- Mel Idisor is a

great uh, artist and, um, she makes these

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pieces that kind of look like landscapes

and cityscapes rather, uh, of the city.

198

So I thought that was a great opportunity

to kind of make this visual piece that

199

goes along with this great coverage.

200

Now, obviously that's not, you know, new.

201

Idea's not new, but to me it's like

if someone's coming to Chum to read

202

about a pretty serious topic in Seattle

but has a opportunity to discover,

203

you know, a local artist that's doing

something in their tone for us, it's

204

kind of like two birds, one stone.

205

And I think that's like really been big

for us is like, you know, you come to us

206

maybe for the news, but maybe you also

are somebody who came to support the image

207

creator who was attached to the story.

208

And then hopefully these two type of

ideas and approach to local, engaging

209

the local politics or engaging the

local arts you, you know, you're,

210

you're interacting with each other.

211

Even at our events, you know,

we've had people tell us, you know,

212

"Oh, I met so many people I've

never met before at this event."

213

And I think to me that's like the greatest

compliment 'cause it's like we have people

214

maybe from different types of, uh, walks

of life or people who kind of engage with

215

news differently engaging with each other.

216

Yeah.

217

If that helps.

218

I hope that was clear.

219

Yeah, totally.

220

Yeah.

221

Yeah.

222

I mean, I was thinking about like

your guys' intersection of arts and

223

political work because the first

time I ever came across your work,

224

it was when you interviewed the

drag queen, um, Nara Selson, who-

225

married former Seattle City

Council President Sara Nelson.

226

And I just saw it on Instagram,

and I thought that that post

227

was like so interesting.

228

This person was so interesting and, you

know, I'm always thinking about like how

229

do I get other 25-year-olds to care about

politics, and I feel like this was one of

230

those stories that might get people who

generally don't pay that much attention

231

to the political scene to kind of read

this story and to start paying attention.

232

And I guess I was curious, like

how did you all get that exclusive?

233

Where did you come up with this story?

234

How does that…

235

I mean, I think it was

one of your earlier works.

236

It's one of the first posts I saw from

you on Instagram, and I'm curious like

237

how is that kind of speak for your

work or, um, frame what you guys do?

238

It was Maran's idea to, to land that.

239

We just reached out to Nera Selson

and we were like, "Hey, you know,

240

here's this, here's this new

outlet we're trying to launch.

241

We'd love to have you in our

sort of inaugural set of,

242

of profiles and articles."

243

And she was a yes, which really,

we're really grateful for.

244

And yeah, the thought there was like,

okay, it's about to be November.

245

There's about to be, you know, a whole

slew of really high stakes elections

246

in, in the Seattle area, sort of on

the, on the city government level.

247

How do we tell that story in a way

that's not just like, you know, Katie

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Wilson won by 2,000 votes or whatever?

249

And, and drag also is a very

politically engaged art form

250

and sort of always has been.

251

And so it felt like a really organic

clubbing of these two themes that

252

we wanted to write about anyway.

253

So we're just lucky, I guess, that there

was such low-hanging fruit that we could

254

just grab and sort of help showcase

sort of right out the gate with Chum.

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I guess it would be weird for me.

256

Like, the, the, the Stranger could've

gotten that story, I guess, but,

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like, that's one of the things about-

Mm-hmm … like the austerity that

258

a lot of our newsrooms are under.

259

It's like when you don't have as

many resources as you used to have,

260

it's hard to even think creatively.

261

And so, and obviously you guys aren't

in a place where you're flush with

262

cash either, but you've got this energy

of, like, wanting to start something

263

new and bring it into the world.

264

And so I think, like, when we were

first starting Range, I was a little

265

worried about, like, chasing after

stories or having a, an angle that

266

worked or whatever, and it just

ended up never really being an issue.

267

'Cause, like, for whatever reason, the

way we're trying to go about the news

268

or maybe who we talk to or just the-

Oh … the mindset is, like, different

269

enough that we don't feel like we're

very often scooped or getting scooped.

270

It's pretty cool.

271

But that you guys are doing

something similar it sounds like.

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Were you gonna say something, Maron?

273

I might have cut you off.

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Oh.

275

Oh, no, you're good.

276

You're good.

277

I was … I just, uh, I was trying

to play something, but it quickly

278

went away, so we're- Oh, yeah.

279

… we're all good.

280

How did you guys first find out about us?

281

'Cause I first encountered your

work, I'm friends with a couple of

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Seattle journalists, and I think

one of them must have liked the Nera

283

Selson post or shared it- Mm-hmm

284

on their Instagram story.

285

And then I remember clicking on

it and reading it and thinking

286

like, "Oh, this is so fun."

287

Um, but I was curious- Mm … since

you guys ended up reaching out to us,

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when did you come across our work?

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Yeah.

290

I, I … So quickly, I'll answer

Luke's statement, and then I'll, I'll,

291

I'll get to your question about the

scoops and the, like, the austerity

292

of, of, of the local news landscape.

293

I think, I think we have the luxury of m-

basically what's the point of our work.

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We don't have to cover everything.

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Yeah.

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We can really, like, we can solve

for, and I don't mean to toot

297

our own horn at all, but like at

least we can aspire to solve for-

298

Mm … quality over quantity way more.

299

So like, you know, if we, right now

our monthly budget is like $2,000.

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So like where do we out…

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That's like, we got the receipts.

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Um- Our annual revenue

right now is $20,000.

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So not even $2,000 a month.

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Yeah.

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So like, how do we, how do we

triage in a way that, like, doesn't

306

feel painful to us or like sort

of a- Yeah … a zero sum game?

307

And part of it is like, okay, if

we're publishing five articles a

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month, let's make them, like, as

lovely for us to work on also.

309

Mm-hmm.

310

Um- And the artists and the

people we reach out to- And the

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artists, right … the writers.

312

Like, it's like we're, we're

constantly kind of thinking,

313

"Oh, we're a fan of this writer.

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We see that they're into this.

315

Let's just ask them."

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It's like, "Is this a topic you're into?

317

We'd love to be the place that

you get to explore this thing.

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Maybe you're not even getting

paid to write in other places.

319

You're, you're constantly being

asked to do political coverage,

320

but we notice you're always talking

about some other, you know, food."

321

Yeah.

322

It's like, "Well, is this, is

this something you can bring

323

a political lens to food?

324

Like, let's talk about it that way."

325

Like, you know, so I think it's

kind of, trying to get the people

326

we ask to be excited, which then

lets us be creative in terms of how,

327

what we choose to cover, you know?

328

It's because it's just

meant to keep us excited.

329

Can't, we're not, we're not

necessarily looking to be the

330

breaking news space or the- Yeah

331

or the- Yeah … you know, where are

you getting your weather from, right?

332

Totally.

333

Right.

334

Right.

335

Um- Oh, that'd be

cool … there's an app for that.

336

Yeah, no.

337

Yeah.

338

I can't do that.

339

Unfortunately, that would be cool.

340

Yeah, yeah.

341

Yeah.

342

Wow.

343

No, yeah, don't get me,

don't get me started on air.

344

That would be too fun.

345

Um- But yeah, no, I mean a- and,

and one additional component

346

to that is, like, we, we are…

347

I mean, if anyone's listening to

this and you've got, you know, a bank

348

account that looks like a phone number

in, in terms of its- … well- DM us-

349

Please reach out … on Instagram.

350

Yeah, yeah.

351

Please reach out to us

at [email protected]

352

or on Instagram @chum.news.

353

Um- Money, [email protected].

354

Yeah.

355

Yeah.

356

Right.

357

Right.

358

But we are fiscally sponsored.

359

It can be a tax-deductible

donation, too- Mm … if that's,

360

if that's important to you.

361

But sort of our, our thought process

has been, you know, to be incremental

362

in this first year and build things

out over time and sort of be able

363

to get that sort of muscle memory

going to make sure that as we grow,

364

we can still be primarily solving for

quality even as the quantity increases.

365

So that means- Yeah … you know,

like really looking for monthly

366

paid subscribers as like a really

massive driver of our budget.

367

Yeah … rather than trying to just

land, like, these large grants where

368

suddenly we've got $200,000 and,

you know, which would be wonderful.

369

Um- Mm … but it's a very different

growth strategy in some ways also.

370

Yeah.

371

Um, as far as how we, how we came across

you guys, uh, I don't know if there's

372

a specific moment that sticks out.

373

If I remember correctly, it's your

protest coverage last year which maybe is,

374

like, kind of a boring response, 'cause

I know that's the, the coverage that

375

did get a lot of eyeballs on you guys.

376

But I think that's when I started

really keeping tabs on you guys of

377

like, oh wow, there's a worker-owned

newsroom in Washington State, and that's

378

really inspiring as, you know, this

isn't just something that's happening

379

in Denver or in DC or in New York.

380

It was r- yeah And it, and it's

seen, yeah … it was, it was huge.

381

Yeah.

382

Yeah.

383

It was, it was amazing to see kind of

the approach to a small, nimble newsroom

384

that's working really hard to cover.

385

But also you guys kind of, your

approach to kind of regionality

386

and just like, you know…

387

I think the way you guys cover Spokane

feels like I'm able to check in and out.

388

Like, as, as a Seattle resident,

it's like I'm coming back and seeing

389

new things that can be minutiae

but also national level coverage.

390

But again, yeah, I think for us, we

were just in that research mode of,

391

like, seeing who we can be inspired by

and see how newsrooms are being built

392

and, and to have something right next

door was, was huge for me when I was…

393

'Cause I was e- as well I, I've,

although I grew up in Seattle, I've

394

only been back the last couple years,

so, for me it's like kind of getting

395

reacquainted with a lot of local media,

and so that was really cool to come

396

across it and, and learn about you guys.

397

That's awesome, man.

398

I appreciate you guys saying that.

399

Of course.

400

Yeah.

401

It's really cool.

402

Yeah.

403

So, oh, we…

404

So you guys came to us a few short months

ago with this pitch that we're kind

405

of partially here today to talk about.

406

We're gonna join…

407

We're gonna meet up in Wenatchee

next, next week, right, Erin?

408

Right, everybody?

409

Mm-hmm.

410

Yeah.

411

Okay.

412

Next week.

413

Next week.

414

On Midstate.

415

We're calling it the Midstate Meetup.

416

Uh, and, uh, but you guys pitched

us that idea, so like what … And

417

immediately struck a chord with me.

418

I don't know how you felt about it, Erin.

419

But like immediately struck a chord

with me for a number of reasons

420

we can talk about in a second.

421

But like what, what gave you

guys the idea in the first place?

422

I think a big part of it was, again,

kind of tying back to what I was just

423

touching on, is like, you know, in a

landsca- especially in, you know, today's

424

kind of media landscape of so many

things being bought by kind of private

425

equity and like kind of all these, you

know, big institutions getting merged

426

together, I think there's something

really cool about, you know, two newsrooms

427

that are making it work for themselves

meeting up and creating camaraderie in

428

a world where there's kind of big sharks

kind of biting down all around us.

429

Yeah.

430

And so I think to me that's

something that I would love

431

to, as just as a reader, right?

432

So outside of try- like the just as

somebody who's a reader, if I support

433

one news organization, uh, I love to

hear about other news organizations

434

that are of the same ilk, right?

435

So I think that was…

436

I know when…

437

I think it was Adam's original idea

to, to, to get this going, and my

438

first thought immediately was, "Well,

if I was a reader of Seattle News in

439

localized, the way we localize it, I

would love to know about what's going on

440

in Spokane through a, a newsroom that's

moving the way you guys are moving."

441

So, it felt like a great idea.

442

Hmm.

443

Yeah, I thought it was so cool when

you guys pitched us, 'cause I like,

444

as a Spokane politics reporter, I have

to pay attention to politics for work.

445

… But I'm always kind of like, you know,

I think I pay attention to politics

446

in the same way that some people pay

attention to their basketball team.

447

And so-

448

Seattle, Seattle politics has been

kind of like my sports, 'cause I

449

can watch it recreationally rather

than like have to pay attention

450

in a way where I have to cover it.

451

And it, and it might only negatively

impact your life when you're

452

like in Seattle or something.

453

Yeah.

454

Like it, I don't have to see these people.

455

I don't have to watch

them- Yeah … be biased.

456

Like, I don't have to call them

every third Wednesday to ask about

457

their legislation or whatever.

458

I can just be like, "Oh, the

Katie Wilson polling came out.

459

I wonder what this says.

460

I wonder what Adam- … will say

about this latest ballot drop."

461

And like- Getting, kind of seeking out

the Seattle sources that I feel like hit

462

the news in a way that I like to read.

463

It's definitely, like, you guys first.

464

And so I'm super stoked to meet up in

Wenatchee, and I don't want to scoop

465

ourselves too much about, like, what

we'll actually be talking about there.

466

So I was hoping we could talk about some

of the things that we left on the cutting

467

room floor, some of the stuff that we

won't be talking about in Wenatchee.

468

And I know that while I'm definitely

coming at it from more of the

469

politics lens, and I, I, like,

enjoy arts and culture sometimes.

470

I'll go to a concert.

471

I like- Thanks … I

like the theater scene.

472

But I know that you guys and Luke really

bonded over some of the arts and cultural

473

connection points between Seattle and

Spokane, and that kind of relationship.

474

And I was hoping maybe we could talk

a little bit about arts and culture.

475

And Luke, I know you have big feelings

about that one Stranger article

476

a couple years ago that was like,

"Everybody's gonna be moving to Spokane.

477

Why don't you get to

know your new homestead?"

478

Or whatever, and I thought that

might be a good jumping-in point.

479

Yeah, we could start that.

480

I mean, I think actually my, my

feelings about my hometown are

481

irrationally connected to The Stranger's

opinions about my hometown actually.

482

So I have…

483

It actually goes back further to,

484

when, like, I got really traumatized

by a particular Dan Savage column.

485

But, The, the thing that I kinda was

like really curious to talk about.

486

So yeah, like there was this, there was

this article that came out, I think it

487

was about a decade ago where, and that was

another Dan Savage pitched the whole team

488

'cause my, our, you, uh, Heidi Groover

is a reporter over in the Seattle Times.

489

She was a former- Mm-hmm … intern

and then staffer at the Inlander,

490

and she grew up in Coeur d'Alene,

so she knows our area really well.

491

And she went over first, first to

The Stranger when, which is when

492

this cover story happened, then now

she's at the, at the Seattle Times.

493

But the idea w- at the time, and this,

so again, like three, four, five years

494

before the pandemic was all the artists

are getting priced out of Seattle,

495

they're all gonna be moving to Spokane.

496

So the entire Stranger team like

came over to Spokane and it was

497

like, "Like it or not, this is where

you're gonna be living in a decade.

498

Let's find out about Spokane."

499

It's the other reason I liked the,

the Midstate Meetup idea was like,

500

it felt like a, a less extractive

version of that kind of a story.

501

Yeah.

502

Totally.

503

Like where it's like we're meeting as

equals, and it really does feel like in

504

some ways Spokane ma- I, I would love

to know about the cultural scene in

505

Seattle, but it feels like at least in

s- with some political and reform stuff

506

at the municipal level, we're, we're

sort of peers in like the, the moves

507

that are being made you know, in like

the s- the way the s- you know, Spokane

508

City Council and sometimes the Seattle

City Council is like driving state level

509

policy on le- in legislative stuff.

510

So, it felt like a really good

time to be meeting as equals in

511

the middle part of the state.

512

But um, what's the, so what has the art

scene like been like s- in the pandemic?

513

Well, quick also addition why we're

meeting in Wenatchee also is like, you

514

know, it isn't just these- Yeah … two

big cities are meeting in like the

515

Terra Nullius of Washington State.

516

Right.

517

There's lots going on in Wenatchee.

518

Uh, we have Daisy from Branch

Media- Yeah … there as also like

519

a representative of her hometown.

520

So we're hoping to cover sort of these

like state level phenomena that have local

521

origins- Yeah … across the state and

not just like sort of our two backyards.

522

Totally.

523

Um, so yeah.

524

But I, so I'm excited for that.

525

Sort of like hopefully, you know,

if we do this more than once, that

526

there are other local independent

news outlets that are interested in

527

this kind of collaborative ethos.

528

I just had a really enjoyable

24 hours in Yakima recently.

529

We could do that next.

530

Yeah.

531

Run it back.

532

Run it back.

533

Um- But as far as arts and culture, sort

of like what, like how, how, how these two

534

cities- Well, just like I, you know, I, I,

everybody moved to Seattle after college.

535

Like, that's the story- … of Spokane.

536

Uh, and I did that myself for a year, and

like at the time, like I got to buy a CD

537

from The Decemberists lead singer when

they were still small enough that they

538

were like selling their own merch, right?

539

Like that's, that was my 20-something

Seattle experience where like it

540

felt at the time, and this is just

my perspec- perspective for all my,

541

all the Spokane listeners that are

gonna hear this, so like there was

542

nothing in s- going on in Spokane, and

everything was happening in Seattle.

543

And like Spokane was sort of an

economic dead zone and every- and

544

this is right after, you know, the

dot-com boom, bust, and then re-boom.

545

Like Seattle is thriving, and that,

that's just been the dominant narrative

546

for so much of my life, and it's

informed a lot of my organizing.

547

But like it also seems like Austerity

is coming for everybody and- Yeah,

548

yeah … you know, last time I was

in South Lake Union it wasn't, like,

549

the grimy hipster- Very different

550

like, dive bars.

551

Yeah.

552

It's like the, you know, the, the gl-

the Amazon glass testicles and like,

553

you know- … Paul Allen's Foundation.

554

Yeah.

555

And it's just like this

is not the same city.

556

It feels antiseptic.

557

So like- Yeah … like, how does

that, and I know you, everybody

558

on this call is a lot younger

than me so, like, none of you…

559

Like, I don't even know if

you guys have those memories.

560

Maybe you do, Mehran, as you,

'cause you grew up there.

561

But like how is Seattle different

than that perception, and then

562

like how is, how has the creative

community just been grappling with the

563

reality of- Yeah … you know, 2026?

564

I think that post…

565

Well, there's a, there's a lot of things

that tie in here, mostly because I think

566

that Seattle has become im- like again,

like des- a perspective mostly built

567

off of what it was like when I was a kid

versus what it's like now, and I think

568

the biggest thing is that it's become

kind of a lightning rod city representing

569

kind of where the national economy is.

570

Like, you see kind of this

complete dismantling of the middle

571

class in Seattle, which i.e.

572

in turns is the creative class.

573

A lot of people were lower income

class or middle income class

574

who were interested in the arts.

575

You could get a cheap apartment in

Beacon Hill or parts of Seattle that

576

was, like, known for being able to

rent a little house with your friends

577

and make, you know, whatever you want

in there and, and, and live there.

578

And I think that in Seattle there's,

there's been a, an interesting effect

579

where post-COVID, you know, downtown

specifically, there's, uh, a lot of

580

organizations that are trying to get

artists into spaces downtown to try

581

to, like effectively it's, it's trippy.

582

There's some of these are like they look

like old retail Nordstrom racks- Yeah

583

that they've turned, you know, they've

sectioned off into little studios for

584

people to be, uh, receive over grants.

585

And so I think specifically

downtown Seattle is seeing an

586

interesting thing where, and

where they're trying to bring…

587

You know, it's so funny.

588

The, the arts is the first thing for

people to push out, but it's always the

589

first thing people need to like revive

like a dead body within the ci- you know?

590

Yeah.

591

And um, it's, I think there's an

interesting grappling point where there's

592

a lot of institutions that desire to

fund the arts here, but because it's

593

so expensive to do the non-art stuff

here, they're have, it's like kind of

594

bottlenecked in a way where a lot of

people are still complaining about,

595

you know, I can get a grant to start

a business, but you know, we just did

596

a whole piece about business closures

in Seattle, small business closures.

597

Specifically these were bars we used

as examples, but you know, there's a

598

lot of institutional support to start a

business but not a lot to sustain, right?

599

Mm-hmm.

600

Yeah.

601

Through global inflation

and things like that.

602

So I think there's a really bizarre

standoff point right now in Seattle,

603

in my opinion, in the arts where

there's a lot of money here.

604

That's not, no one's, you know, no

one's saying that's not true, but

605

the ways it gets dis- disseminated

Decemberists or all these bands that

606

came out of the city, the people in the

crowd weren't Amazon execs, you know?

607

Mm.

608

It was somebody who can afford

a $22 ticket or whatever, no, a

609

$15 ticket to see three bands,

you know, in, in Folk- in, uh,

610

Folklife, and Bumbershoot were free.

611

And again- Mm … I'm not trying to

get nostalgic, I'm just saying, you

612

know, we're in this weird place where

people are like, "No, I, you know, I

613

can get X amount of money from this

institution to support the arts."

614

But it's like, I don't need them

to be able to support the arts.

615

I need people to be able to afford to

live here to support the arts , you know?

616

Mm-hmm.

617

Passively.

618

And I think that's something we've been

reckoning with in this city in a really

619

bizarre way in terms of, you know, I

always say the arts is like in my personal

620

opinion, the arts has always been a

great reflection of the American economy.

621

Mm.

622

So when there's a, a booming middle

class, there's a lot of working artists.

623

When there's a tight, you know,

austerity and a t- a tight economic

624

presence in terms of opportunity,

it's like there's people who make

625

a lot of money, and there's a lot

of people who are like, "I have no

626

idea how to survive as a musician."

627

You know?

628

And I think that we're seeing the American

economy reflect in Seattle art scene more

629

than any other part of it, in my opinion.

630

And another component of this is like,

uh, I interviewed the, the mayor a

631

couple weeks ago, and it seems like

from, you know, the mayor down,

632

there's an acknowledgement of an

overconsolidation in one industry in

633

the city, meaning the tech industry.

634

Mm.

635

And therefore being beholden

to its booms and busts.

636

Yeah.

637

Um, and I mean, like, we can, we can say

a lot about the fact that the booms have

638

created wealth for a lot of people in the

city, but not for everyone in the city.

639

That's, but you know, that's

not a, I would say, particularly

640

controversial statement.

641

But the city seems concerned that, you

know, a lot of its tax revenue comes

642

from more or less specifically trying

to tax these large tech giants that you

643

know, are headquartered in the city or

employ thousands of people in the city.

644

Yeah.

645

And if those companies fold, like, you

could have these, like, cataclysmic

646

f- uh, political outcomes as far

as, like, how the budget, the city's

647

budget is balanced or not balanced.

648

So it seems like- There's a fairly

concerted effort early game, sort of early

649

days, but a fairly concerted effort to

try and diversify the city's economy- Yeah

650

beyond just sort of, you

know, this, this tech boom.

651

Recognizing, I think kind of similarly

to how like Gulf states are like,

652

"We can't just be invested in oil."

653

There's kind of some

kind of resonance there.

654

And I think arts and culture plays a

role in that, in addition to trying to

655

just diversify the city in all sorts of

ways beyond, beyond just sort of, you

656

know, the Apples, and Amazons, and, and

Googles, and Facebooks, and Microsofts.

657

And Boeing.

658

And Boeing.

659

Kind of, right?

660

Yeah.

661

I mean, they're still huge, obviously.

662

Yeah.

663

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

664

I mean, Bernie- I mean, I think a

little of this really interesting.

665

Maybe this is kind of a boring addition,

but Spokane's been fighting this little

666

mini battle to be declared a tech hub.

667

And it involves asking for a lot of

federal grant money, like partnerships

668

between the city and Gonzaga University.

669

And basically what that means is they want

more, like, aerospace manufacturing and

670

probably data centers, and to kind of make

Spokane a, quote, unquote, "tech hub."

671

And that all kind of got put on hold

when a grant we were supposed to get went

672

away because the Trump administration

cut all of these grants or, like, took

673

them away at will from certain cities.

674

It's been a while since I looked at this.

675

It happened, like, right at the beginning-

Mm-hmm … of the administration.

676

And I think there's been some more

interesting discourse around what

677

that means for the city if we make our

economy a, quote, unquote, "tech hub."

678

Like, what does that mean for our river?

679

What does that mean for our

water and electricity usage?

680

What does that mean for our relationship

to geopolitics and the fact that

681

we have, like, the Fairchild Air

Force Base here, and, like, how

682

much are we gonna contribute to

bombing the Middle East if we really

683

go all in on this tech hub thing?

684

Um, but I think that that kind of

feels like an interesting parallel

685

conversation to have in regards

to Seattle maybe needing to move

686

away from the tech industry and

diversify, as Spokane is like- Right

687

"Hey, we can become a tech city."

688

Yeah.

689

That's- It's so fascinating

though … fascinating timing.

690

Yeah.

691

Yeah.

692

Go ahead, sorry.

693

Because the other thing the, the

reason it's so fashion- fascinating

694

to me is around t- look, Seattle's

always had a tech presence.

695

That's always been part of the city.

696

But around, like, 2010-ish, I

feel like I remember thinking

697

Or t- around then thinking, "Okay,

we're seeing what this specific type

698

of economy is doing to San Francisco.

699

Why are we all rushing to do it?"

700

The … You know, and, and I don't

mean necessarily the industries

701

themselves, but the way we the way

we hold these industries accountable-

702

Totally … is, you know, like, is like

703

I get it.

704

You want … You know,

it creates lots of jobs.

705

I'm not saying they don't.

706

But, you know, it's like … But the way

we hold them accountable is just getting

707

copy and pasted in a way that I'm just

like, I don't, I'm not grasping, you know.

708

You're seeing all these … You know,

I think in Virginia when Amazon was

709

saying they're gonna place, uh- Another

headquarter on the East Coast HQ2, yeah.

710

Yeah HQ2 Yeah The whole argu- you

know, and, uh, New York fought it off.

711

I, I, I was living in New York at

the time, and New York fought it off.

712

And I remember the, the argument was think

of how many jobs it'll make, you know,

713

and all these things, and then it, lo

and behold, proves it, it truly left no

714

substantial debt, debt dent in, like- Yeah

715

kind of its economic impact in the local

area, except for those who were moving

716

into the area to live there for the jobs

that they were then pushing people out of.

717

So it's just like, to me, I'm like, I,

I understand it from a wanting to stay,

718

you know, part of the evolving world.

719

The world will always be moving forward.

720

But the ways we hold these

things accountable, I'm just

721

always like, why are we not…

722

why are we just copy and pasting

the way we hold them accountable?

723

I don't understand.

724

Well, and that's the th- so, like, I,

you know- It's a good question … like,

725

I've got better examples of this

type of con- stuff for San Francisco,

726

weirdly, than I do for Seattle.

727

But, like, there was, like, the

longest time, like, the, the

728

whole, like, brain drain of Spokane

was like, "Why would we stay?"

729

Right?

730

"Why would we ever stay- Yeah.

731

Yeah … in Spokane when we could move

to Spokane, San Francisco, whatever?"

732

And I ended up starting a co-working

space after I left journalism, and I

733

got to know a bunch of people who were,

like, here for, just here for college

734

or whatever, and we didn't have the

startup scene in Spokane the way that

735

any, most or, you know, like, any of

the, quote, un- the actual tech hubs do.

736

So, like, we d- like, the

co-working scene got destroyed.

737

Like, it wasn't just, like, WeWork

that destroyed the co-working scene,

738

it was, like, all of these startups

going from, like, zero to 100 headcount

739

and then collapsing overnight, right?

740

Which i- is, like, the churn that has

been happening with, like, venture

741

capital-backed startups for…

742

Like, you, we all- Mm-hmm … focus

on, like, Amazon and Google and

743

everything like that, the, the success

stories, but there's this whole froth-

744

Right … of businesses starting and

then failing- Yeah … in a couple years

745

'cause their seed funding runs out or

their A funding runs out, whatever.

746

But then, like, there was a point

at which in Spokane, and I remember

747

this, like, really clearly, there was

this, like, young kid who had, like…

748

He was precocious.

749

He was at Gonzaga, and he, like,

wanted to start his own nonprofit, and

750

he, like, knew that out of the gate.

751

He wanted to gra- like, he basically

was, like, the, like, the nonprofit

752

equivalent of, like, Elizabeth Hol-

you know, like, the, the guys who,

753

like, you know, like- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

754

… drop out of, drop out of Stanford to…

755

Or, you know, Zuckerberg dropping

out of Harvard to start Facebook.

756

But he wanted to do it with a nonprofit,

and when he graduated and he just kept

757

hanging out at the co-working space,

I was like, "Hey, dude, like, what…

758

Why aren't you moving back

to the Bay to, like, do…"

759

'Cause it was kind of a tech

nonprofit thing he wanted to do.

760

He's like- Mm-hmm … "Why

would I move back to the Bay?

761

Like, there's nothing for me in the Bay."

762

Like, that's, it was the

place he had grown up.

763

I see.

764

And I think, like, that's a

really fascinating moment where

765

when we get so economically…

766

Like, these things overch- like,

supercharge our economy to the point that,

767

like- The kids who grew up in a city have

no interest in going back there because

768

they, you know, they can't, you know- Yeah

769

they don't wanna participate in

that supercharged economy, and

770

therefore they just don't even

wanna go back to their hometowns.

771

It's kinda wild to think about.

772

And then Mar- yeah, Maran and I were

talking about this the other day, like the

773

San Juan Islands are that way of like r-

real estate prices have gotten so high,

774

like teachers and firefighters and- Yeah

775

you know, like individuals who

really make your society function-

776

Mm-hmm … can't live there unless

they, you know, purchased, you know,

777

acquired real estate before the boom.

778

So there are all sorts of ways where

when that kind of zealous sort of pursuit

779

of tech money, you know, is mismanaged,

it can create a really lopsided economy

780

that's really harmful for everyone.

781

And at the same time, I, I, the

timing to me is so funny because

782

Seattle is dealing with more than

10,000 tech layoffs, like, since the

783

beginning of the year, I wanna say.

784

And so much of it is driven

by sort of the alleged AI boom

785

that we're in the thick of.

786

And so I was talking to some activists a

few days ago who were saying, you know,

787

AI to the average Seattle tech worker

is now just synonymous with job layoffs.

788

Yeah.

789

Mm-hmm.

790

So, like, it seems, like, really

curious if not s- irresponsible to try

791

and pursue those kinds of, you know,

corporate, uh, ilk to come to your

792

city if, like, a big part of their MO

is just, like, replacing the workforce

793

that they hire with, you know, some

form of automation and hardware, so.

794

And the thing

795

So one last thing to add to that in

terms of what I was saying about, like,

796

not learning lessons from other places.

797

Yeah.

798

It's like s- uh, you know, I, I have a

lot, particularly in Seattle just because

799

we live here and I'm, I'm constantly

seeing the news about it, right?

800

But it feels like, for example, every

time I hear about particularly the

801

AL- AI layoffs and really the kind

of even Starbucks and their union

802

busting and everything, it reminds me

so much of, like, you know, we were

803

all told, like, Detroit fell apart

bec- uh, car industry fell apart

804

because people started buying Suzukis.

805

You know, like- Yeah, right … it's

like this argument of, like,

806

it's so simplified, but a lot

of that was union busting.

807

Like a lot of it was like, okay,

everyone started … And Detroit

808

had relied on one industry fully.

809

And so it's like as a city,

as legislative positioning, as

810

politicians, how are you not … Like,

you know, it's like read a book.

811

Like, it's just, like, it's literally

the same plays, you know, of like all

812

it takes is for everyone to argue, you

know, everyone in Seattle shoplifts,

813

and then they're just gonna, you

know, move their industry out of here.

814

And it's like the history will tell us,

you know, AI took all our jobs when it's

815

really- We didn't put in barriers of entry

for these specific industries that are

816

consuming your whole tax base, you know?

817

And- Yeah.

818

That's my la- that's…

819

I need to get work 'cause I'm

just like, it's so repetitive,

820

and that's what frustrates me.

821

Well, and like, the thing that I think

is, like, so fascinating about this,

822

like, so my dad's from Central California.

823

He's from Stockton, which is, like, a

city- Mm-hmm … like 30 miles in- Mm-hmm

824

like from the Bay.

825

The, the stuff that, like, San Francisco's

been suffering through and that it became

826

a national story during the pandemic,

like, actually started during the '08, '09

827

banking crisis, except it didn't happen.

828

It wasn't co-located in the

center of San Francisco.

829

Yeah.

830

It was like my uncle was a fireman

in, uh, Stockton, and he lived in

831

Lodi, which is even further out, the

Creedence Clearwater song place, I think.

832

Uh, and, like, his entire neighborhood

basically was foreclosed on, and, like,

833

the two cities that went, like literal

entire cities went, that went bankrupt

834

in '08, '09 were, uh, Detroit and

Stockton, like, in all of America, right?

835

And so, like this- Mm-hmm … like

before it hits the Imperial

836

Core, like it's- Right

837

doing in San Francisco right now, it hits

the hinterland first, and those were the

838

people that these are service workers.

839

These are the people that were commuting-

Yeah … 45 minutes into the city,

840

and you gotta think, like that's…

841

I remember, like Tukwila was

like a suburb, and now it's like

842

everybody's been pushed south to

the point that- Yeah, yeah, totally

843

like there's these huge…

844

Like, I think when I lived in Seattle,

nobody talked about the crime rates

845

in Renton or Tukwila, I don't think.

846

Yeah.

847

I don't ever heard of it.

848

No.

849

And now that's like a, it's

a preoccupation in the news.

850

So, like people get pushed out, and then,

yeah, it's just a really vicious cycle.

851

I have a question, Aaron, for you because,

So, uh, it sounds as though Spokane's

852

going to be passing a data center

moratorium of its own, question mark?

853

Yeah.

854

If that's the case, like, how have you

seen city council attempt to separate,

855

like, the infrastructure that supports

the tech industry from, like, the

856

alleged benefits of being a tech hub?

857

Yeah, I think that's interesting.

858

They were supposed to pass

the moratorium on Monday as an

859

emergency, and then in order…

860

Like, this is weirdly technical, but

you have to have a super majority to

861

add something as an emergency, and they

could- Hmm … only get four out of

862

the seven votes, which wasn't enough.

863

So instead, it's going

to be added next week.

864

And the, there was three people who voted

against it, and one of them was talking

865

about, like, you know, the, there is…

866

We want this tech hub, and we

don't know how this would impact…

867

Like, if we put a moratorium on data

centers in the city, we don't know

868

how this would impact tech hub stuff.

869

Are we really prepared- Oh … to,

like, maybe hinder the tech hub?

870

And then separately, there

was conversations, apparently

871

hospitals have data centers

attached, like small data centers.

872

And so there's been conversations around

the moratorium as like, maybe we try

873

to do it as if the whole building or

a certain percentage of the building

874

is a data center, then it's banned.

875

Because then hospitals could still

have their, like, small ones attached.

876

Or maybe we do it by amount of

electricity or amount of water used.

877

And that was part of the reason to

delay the moratorium, was to maybe

878

figure out some of these more technical

things that could still allow for

879

specifically small data centers that

are used by hospitals, but also maybe

880

forward-looking at this tech center stuff.

881

Hmm.

882

But the mayor has been a lot more of a

champion of the tech center, tech hub

883

stuff, while some of the city council-

We don't really know where they stand

884

because they haven't really had to

vote on anything regarding the tech

885

hub because the contracts and the grant

acceptances were held up by Trump.

886

So we don't know for sure

where everybody stands on it.

887

Yeah.

888

We've, we've done this tech hub

thing before though in Spokane, and

889

that's one of the funnier pieces.

890

Like, we did this, like, 15 years ago,

and, like, there was a huge push, and

891

all we got was, like, a call center

that then closed the moment there

892

was a downturn, economic downturn.

893

So that was around 2008.

894

And then I was part of a marketing

team that was trying to pitch Spokane

895

to business after I left journalism

and before Range, and we got Rover.

896

You guys know Rover,

the dog walking company?

897

Yeah, yeah.

898

Like, moved- Oh, yeah.

899

Moved…

900

Yeah, that was, like, the one win.

901

That's based in Seattle, I think.

902

No, not anymore.

903

It's now based in Spokane- … I think.

904

Wow.

905

Or at least that was the intention, right?

906

But then the funny thing that

happened there, and this is one of

907

the things that I think is, like,

really problematic, like, we…

908

Whether we like it or not, like, a

lot of service-oriented tech companies

909

are basically, um, are basically,

like, knowledge economy businesses.

910

It's like I don't even know- Yeah

… what, like, Rover's headcount in

911

Spokane is anymore after the pandemic.

912

They moved in, like, they moved over in,

913

Like, is there a workforce even…

914

They, you know, they might be mostly in

Kuala Lumpur or something at this point.

915

You know?

916

Yeah.

917

It's like- Yeah, yeah … it's

such a, it's just such a…

918

At least with manufacturing, like,

you need physical infrastructure.

919

And I guess data centers could be a return

to that, except you don't need, you, you

920

know, you don't need nearly as many people

to make sure the, the GPUs don't overheat

921

as you do to, like, build a Model T.

922

Yeah.

923

So…

924

Yeah.

925

It's funny that y'all are dealing with

t- I mean, here we are demonstrating the

926

need for the Midstate Meetup on the air.

927

Totally.

928

Um, but, but it's funny.

929

Like, Seattle dealt with ex- this

exact same question around hospital

930

data centers just- Yeah … last week.

931

Uh- Wow … so two weeks ago, sort of

very last minute, without f- without

932

forewarning, without any public input

really the head of the Land Use Committee

933

in S- in Seattle City Council added

an amendment that passed unanimously

934

that allows existing data centers in

Seattle to apply, so emphasis on apply,

935

for expansions up to 20 megawatts each.

936

And in aggregate, it was sort of

this bizarre scenario where if every

937

existing data center applied for an

expansion up to 20 megawatts, there are

938

30-something data centers in Seattle,

it would lead to, like, basically the

939

equivalent of, like, eight or nine,

like, mega data centers being built.

940

Yeah.

941

Um, so it's sort of like-

That's a loophole, yeah.

942

Yeah.

943

It was, like, kind of this loophole that

almost, like- Seems like a non-moratorium

944

built into the moratorium, 'cause you're

allowing that sort of activity to continue

945

And I think we're gonna see a lot of that.

946

Yeah.

947

I think we're gonna see so much

of like- Mm-hmm … basing things

948

on, they're gonna think I- there,

you know, the proverbial there.

949

But like, I think that there's gonna

be this general tone of, you know,

950

okay, people hate the word data

center, let's think of words so that…

951

You know, it's like this idea of

rebranding it and just re- re-

952

rehashing concepts like that, and I

think we're gonna see a lot of people

953

trying to get creative on how to

effectively accomplish the same thing

954

Right.

955

Right.

956

Definitely.

957

And, and it's interesting that, like,

hospital data centers were also, like,

958

the straw man- Yeah … in Seattle.

959

Um, it was that and 911 call centers.

960

Oh, yeah.

961

And it's like, well, I don't

know if, like, your hospital

962

needs to expand by 20 megawatts.

963

Like, I mean…

964

Or, like, there n- there, there must

be a way to create a provision in the

965

moratorium for, like, hospital data

centers and, like, first response data

966

centers to be able to apply for more- Yeah

967

without being like, "And therefore

we need to basically, like,

968

not have a moratorium at all."

969

Right.

970

That seems like, that seems like

pretty glaring loophole energy.

971

It's like when it, whenever people

wanna do, like, rent provisions,

972

they're like, "Well, but think

about the mom and pop landlord."

973

Yeah.

974

It's obviously, it's like, it's

gonna be the hospital- Right

975

that's like the charismatic megafauna-

Yeah … of, like, deregulation, you know?

976

Yes.

977

Yes.

978

Yes.

979

Well, I know we're, like, kinda

closing in on, on our time,

980

but we did yap for a little bit

before we actually got on topic.

981

Yeah.

982

We have a, a bit of time left.

983

I was thinking about,

like, recommendation lists.

984

Like, for somebody visiting Seattle,

what do the locals recommend you hit?

985

Like, if you have one day, where do you

go for breakfast, lunch, and dinner?

986

Like, what's the one entertainment

place you need to stop at?

987

What's your kind of like, your guys'

lists of high-level recommendations

988

for Spokanites going to Seattle?

989

Mm.

990

Interesting.

991

Well, I've-- my bias is a funny one

because my whole thing is I always joke

992

is I barely ever leave South Seattle.

993

Mm.

994

So kind of always in

my corner of the city.

995

I would say my first thought is

definitely, uh, Rainier Teriyaki

996

is my favorite teriyaki in Seattle.

997

Dude.

998

So if we're gonna stay COVID

Seattle, that's my favorite teriyaki.

999

I think that…

00:50:39,413 --> 00:50:40,913

Ooh, that's a tough one.

00:50:41,183 --> 00:50:45,273

I think a little more highbrow I'll

go, uh, uh, there's my favorite

00:50:45,273 --> 00:50:47,563

cocktail spot in, uh, Seattle.

00:50:47,573 --> 00:50:49,563

You have to make reservations,

but it's really good.

00:50:49,653 --> 00:50:53,873

Paper Fan is, is really

good in, uh, Capitol Hill.

00:50:54,473 --> 00:50:55,863

Paper Fan Cocktail Bar.

00:50:55,963 --> 00:50:58,433

Hmm, and then what else?

00:50:59,263 --> 00:50:59,553

Fun.

00:50:59,573 --> 00:51:01,273

I'm trying to think of

things they do f- for fun.

00:51:01,493 --> 00:51:05,233

Lake Washington, Lake Washington Boulevard

Sewer Park is a beautiful place to

00:51:05,233 --> 00:51:06,963

lounge and loiter and fall asleep in.

00:51:07,113 --> 00:51:08,313

So those are my three.

00:51:09,273 --> 00:51:09,713

That's awesome.

00:51:11,143 --> 00:51:14,163

Uh, my three are maybe a

little bit more brackish.

00:51:14,453 --> 00:51:21,703

Um, my first one is the Ballard

Locks, which are free 99, baby,

00:51:21,703 --> 00:51:25,803

so- Good … that's wonderful-

Sure … if you have a large family.

00:51:25,963 --> 00:51:31,703

And if you go, uh, during sort of

the salmon runs, there's the viewing

00:51:31,713 --> 00:51:35,243

gallery where you can look at salmon

passing through the locks, which

00:51:35,243 --> 00:51:37,223

is quite an interesting process.

00:51:37,303 --> 00:51:42,413

And I would say thought-provoking in

some ways also of sort of this human-made

00:51:43,253 --> 00:51:47,443

impingement on the free flow of salmon.

00:51:47,743 --> 00:51:48,933

I, yeah, I was I…

00:51:49,393 --> 00:51:52,423

That's a really interesting

spot, and very Seattle.

00:51:52,663 --> 00:51:57,753

I love Zig Zag Cafe sort of in the

steps of, like, basically just below

00:51:57,753 --> 00:52:01,193

Pike Place, sort of a, be- between

Pike Place and the waterfront.

00:52:01,743 --> 00:52:06,663

It's, it feels like it's got sort of its

own non-fungible Seattle energy to it.

00:52:06,853 --> 00:52:11,843

Um, and- Oh, yeah … and they,

and they created, they resurrected

00:52:11,853 --> 00:52:13,923

the Last Word, the cocktail.

00:52:14,123 --> 00:52:14,743

Um- Oh, yeah.

00:52:14,753 --> 00:52:14,763

Ooh.

00:52:15,663 --> 00:52:16,577

So they're a- Oh, right, right, right.

00:52:16,577 --> 00:52:18,083

They're the ones who- They're

a really lovely- Yeah.

00:52:18,653 --> 00:52:19,573

Yeah, I remember them … mm-hmm.

00:52:20,013 --> 00:52:22,773

And they have these really great

oysters that I think are basically

00:52:22,783 --> 00:52:24,813

only served there, which is kinda wild.

00:52:25,183 --> 00:52:25,403

Wow.

00:52:25,443 --> 00:52:28,773

And then my last one is go get

a value beer at a Mariners game.

00:52:29,043 --> 00:52:29,503

Um- Yeah.

00:52:29,503 --> 00:52:29,853

Yeah.

00:52:29,943 --> 00:52:30,253

Let's go.

00:52:30,253 --> 00:52:33,313

The value beers, value

beers start at 5.50,

00:52:33,313 --> 00:52:37,213

and rumor has it, if you look on

Ticketmaster on where the tickets aren't,

00:52:37,423 --> 00:52:41,443

haven't been sold, you might be able to go

sneak down to, like, row four of a game.

00:52:41,603 --> 00:52:41,893

Yeah.

00:52:41,953 --> 00:52:44,123

Um, and then you can have

the satisfaction- That's a-

00:52:44,123 --> 00:52:46,423

of a cheap beer and, uh,

functionally a cheap ticket.

00:52:46,433 --> 00:52:47,853

You give, you giving inside ball here.

00:52:47,923 --> 00:52:48,353

Yeah, no, that's good.

00:52:48,353 --> 00:52:48,773

The sneak down to the bottom bowl.

00:52:48,773 --> 00:52:49,503

I mean, no, that's a legend.

00:52:49,503 --> 00:52:49,733

That's inside ball.

00:52:49,733 --> 00:52:50,203

That's a legend.

00:52:50,483 --> 00:52:50,823

A legend.

00:52:51,063 --> 00:52:52,843

I'm not gonna say that

I've ever done that.

00:52:52,853 --> 00:52:52,873

Yeah.

00:52:52,883 --> 00:52:54,743

That's, that would be- I've

allegedly been doing that-

00:52:54,743 --> 00:52:55,753

that'd be wild … since I was 12.

00:52:56,903 --> 00:52:58,653

That's the prototype I was looking for.

00:52:58,653 --> 00:52:59,613

That's perfect.

00:52:59,693 --> 00:53:01,433

I need to know the place that…

00:53:01,503 --> 00:53:06,593

I have Seattle, uh, my college roommates

moved to Seattle, and every time I go, the

00:53:06,613 --> 00:53:12,203

one place that I always want food from is

Oink in Capitol Hill, and I need to know-

00:53:12,203 --> 00:53:14,063

… if that's, like, a tourist pick or not.

00:53:14,853 --> 00:53:16,553

Or does everybody like the ramen there?

00:53:17,517 --> 00:53:21,437

There's one on Capitol Hill and there's

one in Fremont also, I wanna say Okay.

00:53:21,997 --> 00:53:23,957

I have one friend who's really into Oink.

00:53:24,497 --> 00:53:25,797

Uh, but-

00:53:27,877 --> 00:53:30,401

I have never been to- I'm not

against it … I've never been

00:53:30,401 --> 00:53:32,117

to Oink, but I'm sure it's good.

00:53:32,127 --> 00:53:32,147

Yeah.

00:53:32,187 --> 00:53:32,577

I will not,

00:53:38,487 --> 00:53:39,665

I will not, I will not

besmirch Oink's name.

00:53:39,665 --> 00:53:39,722

Yeah, exactly.

00:53:39,722 --> 00:53:39,750

Yeah.

00:53:39,750 --> 00:53:40,007

Well, I feel like- I'd say the pure truth.

00:53:40,007 --> 00:53:40,607

Yeah, yeah, totally.

00:53:41,497 --> 00:53:43,177

Maron, I am pretty sure…

00:53:43,177 --> 00:53:45,627

So I had to look this up, 'cause I

didn't wanna just, like, jump in.

00:53:45,977 --> 00:53:48,967

I think Rainier Teriyaki is the

teriyaki place that convinced

00:53:48,997 --> 00:53:50,767

me to move to Seattle after- Ooh

00:53:50,837 --> 00:53:51,077

college.

00:53:51,077 --> 00:53:51,537

I love that.

00:53:51,537 --> 00:53:52,907

I went with my buddy, my…

00:53:52,997 --> 00:53:56,367

Shout out Rob Wanderer, my buddy

Rob- … was, like, trying to convince

00:53:56,367 --> 00:54:00,347

me to move to Seattle instead of, uh,

Portland at the time, and he took…

00:54:00,357 --> 00:54:04,107

He's a Capitol Hill kid, and he took

me to- Yeah … Rainier Teriyaki, and

00:54:04,107 --> 00:54:06,007

then my mind was sufficiently blown.

00:54:06,077 --> 00:54:08,897

So yeah, that was part of, that was part

of how I spent a year over in Seattle.

00:54:09,467 --> 00:54:11,797

There's a lot of good teriyaki,

but that place is just always

00:54:11,797 --> 00:54:13,307

gonna hold a place in my heart.

00:54:13,417 --> 00:54:15,987

So if I get- Yeah … a chance

to shout it out, I gotta do it.

00:54:17,457 --> 00:54:20,987

Well, we can give you our top

three for Spokane, uh- Please.

00:54:20,987 --> 00:54:22,247

Please … for the Midstate Meetup.

00:54:22,437 --> 00:54:25,617

And, uh, we, I wanna talk more about,

Well, and maybe at the meetup we can

00:54:25,617 --> 00:54:29,957

talk about Maron's pandemic trip to

Spokane, 'cause there's a, there's

00:54:29,957 --> 00:54:34,277

a- Uh, that's part of the range, and

just the recent Spokane lore as well.

00:54:34,277 --> 00:54:35,977

But, uh, maybe we should wrap it up there.

00:54:36,027 --> 00:54:36,437

Sellers?

00:54:37,007 --> 00:54:38,117

Yeah, that sounds good.

00:54:38,117 --> 00:54:41,407

Happy to bring my Spokane

recommendations to Wenatchee.

00:54:41,797 --> 00:54:41,947

Yeah.

00:54:42,547 --> 00:54:43,267

Sounds good to me.

00:54:44,017 --> 00:54:45,567

Well, all right.

00:54:45,657 --> 00:54:50,317

. We'll catch you next week and maybe

you'll even get a little sneak peek

00:54:50,327 --> 00:54:53,087

of how our Tuesday Midstate Meetup

00:54:55,827 --> 00:54:55,917

went.

00:54:56,567 --> 00:54:56,875

Thanks for coming on, Adam and Maron.