Hello pod! In tonight’s episode, we’re discussing the kind of representation we want to see and talking about the films, filmmakers, and production companies that are changing the way that we see Arabs portrayed on the big screen. If you haven’t already tuned into our previous episodes where we break down the film Reel Bad Arabs and the destructive stereotypes we’ve seen throughout Hollywood’s history as well as define a few terms that we’ve used throughout this series, we highly recommend that you go back and listen to those episodes.

If you haven’t already seen Reel Bad Arabs, we HIGHLY recommend that you watch. It’s less than an hour and you can watch it for FREE on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPxak6lFd-I

Here are suggested TV shows, movies, and streaming services from our guests:

• Avatar: The Last Airbender (Animated series, Netflix)
• The Encampments (Watermelon+)
• A Sad and Beautiful World (Watermelon+)
• All That’s Left Of You (In Theatres & Watermelon+)
• Amreeka (Available to rent on Amazon Prime, Google, and Apple)
• Palestine 36 (In Theatres & Watermelon+)
• Salt of the Sea (Available to rent on Amazon Prime, Google, and Apple)
• Slingshot Hip Hop (Available to rent on Amazon Prime, Google, and Apple)
• Caramel (2007, Available to rent on Amazon Prime, Google, and Apple)
• I Am From Palestine (YouTube)

Follow these filmmakers and artists:

• Jackie Reem Salloum
• Cherein Dabis
• Suheir Hammad
• Annemarie Jacir
• Nadine Labaki

Our guests (and how you can support them) are listed below:

Amira Ferjani is a Tunisian American and Marketing and Communications Specialist uses her platform to educate others on anti-SWANA discrimination and the often-erased diversity of the South West Asia and North Africa region. She draws on her lived experience and cultural heritage to challenge the erasure and misrepresentation of SWANA peoples in media, policy, and everyday language. Subscribe to her Substack, Amira Out Loud here: http://amiraoutloud.substack.com. She’s also on most social media platforms as @amiraoutloud.

Muna Najib is a first-generation Palestinian social justice activist, writer, speaker and educator. She believes in fighting for full land back for all indigenous peoples which includes Palestine’s full liberation and sovereignty from the river to the sea. Reach out to her at mntaha@gmail.com. You can also follow her on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/mnnajib7.

Munir Atalla is the Head of Production & Acquisitions at Watermelon Pictures. Visit their website at https://www.watermelonpictures.com to learn more about the distribution and production company whose mission is to shift culture on a large scale by bringing Palestinian cinema, and other untold stories, to broad audiences in a way that entertains, inspires, and activates audiences. Subscribe to Watermelon Plus for $7.99/mo or $79.99/year at https://www.watermelonplus.com!

Ryan Shrime is of Lebanese and Palestinian descent and is an actor, voiceover artist, writer, and producer in Los Angeles. Since having been a producer for the Arab-American Comedy Festival in New York and the co-founder and producer of the Middle Eastern Comedy Festival in Los Angeles, Ryan has been using his platform to help combat stereotypes and misrepresentation of Arabs in Hollywood and the media at large. To support him, you can hire him as an actor (especially if you have any pirate roles in a period piece!), get him into the writer’s room, and rewatch episodes of Sam and Cat so that he can collect royalties. He’s on all social media platforms as @ryanshrime. We need to support our actors!

Saafa Tahboub is a Palestinian American in her third year at the University of Rochester studying Brain & Cognitive Science with a minor in Spanish.

Sarah Aljitawi is a Palestinian American and a senior majoring in public health and nursing.

Follow Students for Justice in Palestine on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/sjp.ur and donate to their group and efforts to helping the people of Palestine here: https://linktr.ee/UR.SJP

As promised here are some other resources:

Books – Orientalism by Edward Said; Reel Bad Arabs by Dr. Jack Shaheen

Articles - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1priV6Ew23wYz1Vm0tefsERqVCz-a4UCP77UdWWrAqbY/edit?usp=drive_link

Wherever you’re listening from, hit that subscribe button and if you liked tonight’s episode, please give us a 5-star rating, share this episode and leave a comment to let us know what you liked the most! Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok & Threads.

Visit https://www.ourvoicesproject.com and sign up for our newsletter for more information about what we do. Again, if you haven’t listened to our previous episodes in this series, we highly recommend that you do so. Not only that, do yourselves a favor and go watch Reel Bad Arabs available for FREE on YouTube as well as the films and TV shows that our guests recommended tonight.

We’ll be taking 3 weeks off and we’ll be back on May 21st to dive back into films that center Black, Brown, and Indigenous voices and stories.

This has been Jackie McGriff, your host for tonight’s episode of Representation in Cinema. As always, thank you again for listening!

00:00 Intro

06:00 Diverse Voices in Arab Cinema

08:58 Understanding Authentic Representation

12:07 The Role of Storytelling in Representation

14:57 Cultural Narratives and Media Influence

21:05 Challenges in Representation

24:00 The Need for Diverse Narratives

33:16 Resistance and the Role of Encampments

39:07 Media Representation and Its Impact

48:50 Shifting Narratives in Film and Media

54:05 Emerging Projects and Representation

58:01 Solidarity Across Movements

01:00:51 The Future of Arab Representation in Media

01:18:30 Empowering Female Voices in Film

01:21:41 Encouragement for Emerging Filmmakers & Actors

01:33:58 How to Support Our Guests

Mentioned in this episode:

Our Voices Project - Land Acknowledgement

Joe Bean Roasters

Visit joebeanroasters.com to get fresh roasted specialty coffee either by the bag or with a Perpetual Joy subscription!

Dialed In: A Coffee Podcast

Get Dialed In to the world of coffee with Aaron and Wade! Tastings, coffee news and opinion and more! https://dialedincoffee.captivate.fm

Hello pod.

Welcome to the final week of Arab American Heritage Month.

I'm your host, Jackie McGriff and if this is your first time listening to the podcast, welcome to Representation in Cinema, a podcast where we talk about the films that center Black brown indigenous voices as well as on the film industry itself.

I'm not only your host, but I'm also the founder, director and co producer of Our Voices Project, a production company that shares the stories and lived experiences of Black brown indigenous peoples through visual storytelling and truth telling.

We are community engaged filmmakers who firmly believe that you can't center the stories of Black brown indigenous peoples without being in community and in solidarity with them.

If you're watching this on YouTube, hit that subscribe button and make sure you hit the little bell to get notified about new episodes when they drop.

If you're listening to the podcast on your preferred platform, make sure that you go ahead and hit subscribe.

And then if you also like tonight's episode, be sure to rate us 5 stars and then leave us a comment letting us know exactly what you loved about tonight's episode.

Speaking of tonight's episode, we're discussing the kind of representation we want to see and talking about the films, filmmakers and production production companies that are changing the way that we see how Arabs are depicted on the big screen.

If you haven't already tuned into our previous episodes where we'll break down the where we've broken down the film Real Bad Arabs and the destructive stereotypes we've seen throughout Hollywood's history, as well as define a few terms that we've used throughout this series.

We highly recommend that you go back and listen to those episodes.

Now before we get into the conversation, we have a few returning guests as well as some newcomers into the podcast.

First up is Amirah Ferjani.

Amira is a Tunisian American and marketing and communications specialist who uses her platform to educate others on anti Swana discrimination and the often erased diversity of the Southwest Asia and North Africa region.

She draws on her lived experience and cultural heritage to challenge the erasure and misrepresentation of Swana peoples in media policy and everyday language.

Welcome back to the podcast, Amira.

Hello.

Excited to be back.

Next up is Muna Najib.

Muna is a first generation Palestinian social justice activist, writer, educator and speaker.

She believes in fighting for full land back for all indigenous peoples which includes Palestine's full liberation and sovereignty from the river to the sea.

Welcome back, Muna.

Hello and salam everyone.

Thank you for having me back.

It's a pleasure.

Absolutely.

And I also just have to commend Amira and Muna last time for taking over on the podcast.

I was joking with Amira actually on threads that she should take over the podcast.

I was only half joking.

Half joking.

But yeah, y' all did a fantastic job.

So thank you for that.

It was an amazing episode.

Could not wait to come back and actually listen to it and it was absolutely amazing.

So thank you all for that.

Next is Munir Attallah.

Munir is the head of production and acquisitions at Watermelon Pictures.

Visit their website@watermelonpictures.com to learn more about the distribution and production company whose mission it is to shift culture on a large scale by bringing Palestinian cinema and other untold stories to broad audiences in a way that entertains, inspires, and activates audiences.

Welcome back to the podcast, Munir.

Thank you so much for having me.

Jackie.

Yes.

And next we have Ryan Trime.

Ryan Trime is of Lebanese and Palestinian descent and is an actor, voice over artist, writer and producer in Los Angeles.

Since having been a producer for the Arab American Comedy Festival in New York and the co founder and producer of the Middle Eastern Comedy Festival in la, Ryan has been using his platform to help combat stereotypes and misrepresentation of Arabs in Hollywood and the media at large.

Ryan can be found on most socials at.

Ryan Schreim welcome back to the podcast, Ryan.

Thank you.

Thanks for having me.

And joining us for the first time on the podcast, our local students, Safa and Sara.

Safa Tahoub is a Palestinian American in her third year at the University of Rochester studying brain and cognitive science with a minor in Spanish.

Welcome to the podcast, Safa.

Hello.

Happy to be here.

Yes, happy to have you.

And last but certainly not least is Sarah Al Jatawi is a Palestinian American and a senior majoring in public health and nursing.

Welcome to the podcast, Sara.

Hi everyone.

Thanks for having me.

Yes, thank you for being here.

Now, on to the conversation.

So since Safa and Sara are joining us for the first time on the podcast, we're going to ask you a couple of questions that we've had our other guests answer.

So starting with what were the films that you grew up loving as a kid that really stuck with you throughout the years?

And I'll start with Sana.

This isn't a film, but it's a TV show series, Avatar the Last Airbender, that was my favorite as a child and still is to this day.

And I think rewatching it as I get older, a lot of the moral themes in that show, especially for a children's show, were very on point, and I think it actually was a large part of how I developed my morals and values growing up as a kid.

If you watch it again.

But yeah, that was one of my favorites.

Nice.

How about you?

It's a show about genocide.

It is.

Yeah.

And standing up to fascism is such a good one.

It's a really good one.

The sequels didn't.

Didn't, you know, didn't do as well, especially politically.

Yeah.

Legends of Korra was not my.

Was not my favorite.

Yeah.

Safa.

I was gonna say the same thing, because I love.

We didn't discuss this before.

I loved that show.

It was for my older brother, my little sister.

We all love.

Watched it together.

Love it.

Yeah.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

Can I ask you guys how old.

I tried to show it to my nephews, and they just were not.

They couldn't get into it.

How old were you when you.

I watched it in, like, my 20s or 30s.

I don't remember.

But how old were you guys when you watched it?

Like seven or eight.

I think I must have started in elementary school.

Yeah.

Okay.

But it was like my whole family, even my parents, like, that was the one show we could all agree on to watch, right?

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right, so if you haven't already watched Avatar the Last Airbender, which also includes myself.

Yeah.

Toronto.

For real.

So good.

All right, so as we mentioned before, it's Arab American Heritage Month.

So to our students, what comes to mind for you as far as there being a month where Arab cultures, identities, and lived experiences are acknowledged in America?

And I'll start with Safa.

I think for me, the Mina region is very diverse.

I mean, you have the Levant, you have the Khalid, you have the Gulf, you have North African communities that identify with Arab label.

And so I think it's really important that we honor all those voices when it comes to this month as a whole.

And, Sana, I think for me, honestly, growing up, especially in the U.S. especially in Kansas, and then I moved here, being Arab is like something that was very much so erased because most people didn't know anything about the Middle east, didn't know anything about Palestine, which is where my family's from.

And so when a couple years ago, when they.

This became a month to celebrate, I was like, oh, this is really nice that, you know, drawing awareness that we have a large Arab community that has been in the United States for decades now.

But I think it definitely falls short in how.

Which is why we're here to talk about this today, but in how we're portrayed in the media and how it's talked about and how it's celebrated, even though we are seeing improvements, I don't think it's doing enough given our current political reality.

For sure.

Yeah, yeah.

I think Muna, the last time we spoke about this, it was.

So this month was started by.

I think it was also Rashida Tlaib.

Right.

Who.

Who brought it up.

Yeah.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

Works is in the way.

Maybe Rashida had something because she's in the administration.

Yeah.

Under the Biden administration two years before the genocide.

Wow.

Yeah.

This is what I mean.

Like the hypocrisy DEI type things, like, it's.

They just like to talk.

They don't like to do anything.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Let's make it look like we're doing something.

We're not actually doing something.

Yeah.

Okay.

So for all.

And I'm going to, again, start with our students because this is what we're going to be talking about today, and then we'll, like, be diving further into it.

But what does authentic representation look like to you, Sara?

I start with you.

For me, I think authentic representation looks like films and media that comes from Arab creators and Arab authors, because I think when it's sourced in any other way, it just ends up being this Orientalist, gentrified or heavily stereotypical version of what Arabs are.

And a lot of it is rooted in stereotypes that, oh, we're violent people, we're backwards people, uncivilized, et cetera.

Uh, because I think that serves, again, the political agenda of this country or the Western world in general.

Um, but I think good representation that's actually done by Arabs is.

It feels like an act of love because I love our culture and I love our people.

And we have so much to celebrate and so much to be proud of and so much beauty in our various cultures.

And like Safa said, it's so diverse.

So then when it's represented accurately, it just feels like, oh, this is like coming home.

This is like a slice of my home that's being shown back to me, and that's really important to have.

And I think it's only recently that it started becoming something I can actually identify with.

But it a hundred percent was not before Safa.

Wow.

I think authentic representation means, to me Honoring people's voices and their true stories.

Because like I've been saying, like Sarah emphasized, is we are such a diverse community and all of our experiences are different.

And I think that when you look at the Arab world, people have traveled so much that now, like, our experiences are expanding across the world.

So you can't just look at one Arab experience and say that it's a representation of even one country.

Because we've been traveling so much, we've immigrated so much, and our experiences have changed and our thoughts have changed.

So I think when you think of representing the people, you look at their stories and their family stories.

Because when I look at my own family's story, it has changed so much from Palestine to Syria to coming to the US and my family is scattered all, all around the world.

So when you look at representation, you have to look back at the stories of the actual people.

Yeah.

Luna, how about you?

Yeah, I mean, I agree with both of you.

We've already kind of talked about more or less a lot about this in the past few episodes too.

And I know between Ryan and Laith and Amira last time as well.

I absolutely agree.

It has to come from like a place of, first of all, loving our own cultures, our own peoples, you know, just being tired of accepting and being force fed these, the false narratives and you know, whatever the mainstream has allowed for so long to be, which unfortunately has done so much harm and is not about, you know, I guess it's not really about connecting people.

It's not about humanizing our people.

It's.

That's like the very last thing on the table.

It's all about what policies have been put in place by our government in connection to Hollywood and to villainize our people or to justify all of the occupations and colonialism and imperialism that's been happening for so long.

So I think we're still trying to figure out what this idea of authentic representation means and being allowed and given the resources and the spaces and all of the things that are needed to get them out there and to make them actually happen.

Because we all have stories that absolutely we want to share, whether it's our personal stories, family stories, whether we're dealing with politics or not.

We're always so politicized, like we can't get away from it, but it's about just having the opportunities that are needed in order to make these things happen.

And there has been, we've been talking about, there has been slow progress, but there's so much more that can be done and so much More that can.

Yeah.

Come.

Come about for.

For us as well as, like, a wider audience.

Munir, how about you?

Yeah, it's such a difficult thing to sort of put your finger on.

I love the answers that others gave.

The students had such beautiful answers to that as well.

And I think that it's one of those things where you know it when you see it, you know it when you feel it.

It's hard to sort of quantify.

It's hard to prescribe it, and that's what makes it so meaningful.

In a way.

It's art.

It's one of those kind of unknowable things that we chase after and aspire to and has to have this kind of ingredient that nobody can really name before it exists suddenly and magically.

Yeah.

Thank you for that.

Amira, how about you?

Yeah, I think speaking to that, especially the knowing it when you see it, I, hearing this question, had to think of the voice of Hindra Shaw, because that's what I just saw in theaters.

And maybe I'm biased because the director is Tunisian as well, but that story was just so beautiful.

You know, I was very.

I don't know whether to say nervous about seeing it, because I knew that the story of Henry Shaw is just so hard and difficult to parse through.

But the way the director and the story played out, like, there are moments that I laughed and there are moments of levity and the care that is put into telling that story of humanizing every single person, of giving a voice to him, giving a voice to her mother.

It was just the most authentic thing I've seen and something that I definitely haven't seen from any American movies I've watched.

But then speaking to the diaspora, we have such different experiences, even just from where we've come from and where we live in America or where you may live if you're displaced in Syria or if you're native Syrian.

Like, we do have all these different experiences, and I think so authenticity is just letting us to Harkin, Edward Said, you know, giving us the permission to narrate our own stories.

And I think when that is done with care, it really shows through.

And, you know, like even a moment as small as Elmo saying habibi, saying salaam alaikum is something that can speak to us because we want that.

Like, there is such a thirst for us to be able to share our culture in a way that it's actually appreciated and not in a way that is critical and showing all of those different aspects.

Like, I think that's Where a lot of the misunderstanding comes from is that at the end of the day, we're painted as this one monolithic thing, but we are so different, and we have different ideas and we have different experiences.

And so being able to show those in their full authenticity is where it's really lacking right now.

How about you, Ryan?

All right, well, stop me if I ramble.

I have a.

You know, there's a.

There's a few things.

First off, what everybody has said, I wholeheartedly agree with.

I. I think I kind of see three different ways that we can better our representation.

1.

And, you know, Watermelon Pictures is also, like, right now, thankfully, you know, really championing this, like, telling our stories, Telling our stories by our writers and our storytellers, with our actors, with our voices, with our directors and producers, so that every.

You know, at every angle, it's just.

It's an authentic representation of us.

I mean, it's hard to not be authentic when we are the ones telling the stories, the.

The sort of other side, you know, like, one thing that, like, really struck me was how, particularly in America, the black community, when Black Panther came out, the joy and just the energy around that movie.

It was a fictional movie.

It was a superhero movie, but it was.

Was so affirming of, like, look at what we could have been, could be if the world had left us alone and let us shine, you know?

And so, you know, even those sensationalized stories that show Arabs in a completely, like, different universe, like, just celebrating what we could have been, what we could, you know, had the world left its hands off of our region, you know, like, there's a.

There's.

I don't know.

There's a Green Lantern.

I don't know how familiar y' all are with Green Lantern, but there's a.

There's a Lebanese Green Lantern who, like.

It would be great.

James Gunn, if you're listening to this, it would be great to see that character.

You know, the.

The, like, just the celebration of us for us.

And kind of this leads into my third thing of, like, most of us live lives that have nothing to do with our identity.

We're doctors, we're lawyers, we're actors, we're writers in general, in Hollywood, when they deal with Arab representation or Muslim representation, it's about being Arab, it's about being Muslim.

It's not just like, oh, hey, here's this character.

You know, like, one of the things I love on the pit, for example, is you have a hijabi who's like, never.

They don't even talk about her religion.

She's just there, just like you would find in any hospital or any, you know.

And so, like, I do think we can't expect John from Iowa to really write authenticity, Arab representation.

But what we can ask for from these creators who aren't Arab is writing characters that just happen to be Arab or Muslim or, you know, casting folks who happen to be Arab or Muslim or, you know, North African or just.

And letting us be humans like anybody else.

And I think that goes a long way because there's.

It's great to have unique representation, but for the majority of the American, particularly entertainment viewing public, they don't watch those, you know, Arab films, Palestinian films, they don't generally watch those.

What they watch is what comes on streaming or TV or whatever.

And so if we can see more representation of us in these regular TV shows, that has nothing to do with our identity.

And it's just like, oh, well, yeah, that's that, you know, that's that North African woman on the show and cool.

She's just a character.

So I think that's sort of like a three pronged attack to better representation as a whole across entertainment and Hollywood media.

Well, thanks, y' all for joining us today on the phone.

No, I'm just kidding.

No, no, you're fine, you're good.

I'll get off my soapbox.

No, can I just say something to thank you for sharing all that?

Ryan, the wheels are turning.

A few things, like, I remember even during Black Panther, like, the first time I saw it and rest in peace to, you know, Chadwick Boseman, when the little boy is speaking, speaking, and he says, baba, tell me about this.

I felt so happy.

No, no, I was like, this was the first time in a film.

Like, obviously they're not, they're not supposed to be Arab characters, but that were the Baba for father, which we use, which a lot of other cultures use, but just that word alone, I don't know why, I don't know why, but I felt so seen when he said that.

And I was like.

And for every little person in the room who could relate, I was like, I was just happy in that moment that they, I don't know, it was, it was a very thinking about it.

I'm like, maybe it's not a big deal, but even just that little piece of humanity made a big difference.

I think even like, like sometimes people say, oh, representation isn't important, or it's not relevant, or it isn't what we should be focused on.

But I Think everyone longs to have what they watch or what they see be relatable to them in some way.

And even you saying Baba reminded me of my Baba, because he always will tell me that someone is actually like a quarter Arab or actually, like, it didn't happen.

Yeah.

Like, I'll be like, oh, like, did you.

Shakira's half Lebanese.

Oh, yeah.

Like, Rihanna is actually Rihanna.

And I'm like, no, I don't think that's right.

My dad is 52.

Like, he just also wants some representation out there.

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah.

No, I.

Because.

And I mean, that's the thing.

I think with.

With especially, like, on the Internet, there's a lot of.

Of course there's always discourse, especially when it comes to representation.

And I always go back and forth, but I always kind of go back to.

Well, I mean, if you haven't.

If you're someone who has not been around a certain community and all you see on your television screen, all you see in the news, all you see on the big screen is this, like, horrible, like, representation, like, of that community, then maybe you're thinking in your head, like, you know, you're.

You're someone who is, like, always trying to advocate for people or what have you, right.

And just, like, treating everyone equally, you know, as it were.

Like, you're still going to have.

Because you have seen all of this, like, representation.

I'm using quotes for anyone who's listening.

Like, you've seen all this representation.

Like, what is to stop you from believing the justification to enact certain policies, harmful policies, right here on Turtle island and also abroad.

You know, this is how, this is how you dehumanize a.

A, A culture, a heritage, a whole people.

So, like, whenever someone says something like, you know, representation doesn't matter, I'm like, But it does.

Like, because it's, It's.

It's relating back to.

Again, how are all the different ways that you can dehumanize people?

Media is one of them.

Or mess it up.

Mess it up.

Because no.

And he brought up again, like, the hijabi in the pit, which I think I haven't watched the.

I think I haven't watched the show.

But as soon as you said that, I was like, okay, I know the character because I saw, like, a still of her.

Have no idea what type of character, you know, she plays or anything, but I'm like, oh, that's interesting.

Because they will always mess up the hijabi character.

Always.

She's doing crazy things that hijabis don't do.

She's taking off the hijab.

Like, that's not authentic representation.

And they're doing it, I don't know, in a way to appeal to an American.

American audience, I guess, a white audience, I mean.

Yeah, let's be real.

Yeah.

And they also always equate Arabs with Muslims.

And there are Arab Christians, there are Jewish Arabs, There are Arabs of all religions.

So that's another thing that is a big pet peeve of mine is that they're not right where it's not.

Not all Arabs are Muslim.

100.

And that's another big problem in the media, too.

Yeah, I was.

I was.

Oh, sorry.

I was speaking a bit about this yesterday with mpac.

Like, again, I have nothing but respect for mpac, which is the Muslim Public Affairs Council.

But, like, they're the only sort of advocacy group for Arabs in Hollywood.

Like, there is no Arab advocacy group outside of the Muslim Public Affairs Council, you know, and you're right, there are.

There's.

Especially in America, there are a lot of non Muslim Arabs.

You know, my family was Roman Catholic.

You know, there's a.

There are a lot of us.

And so I do think, you know, in the Western mind, Arab equals Muslim.

And sure, there's a majority of Arabs are Muslim, but, you know, I mean, I think they're not going to know this stuff without our input, without our voices and, you know, in the writing.

Such an erasure of how diverse Muslims are, you know, like, that the most of them are Indonesian, from the Philippines, Malay Somali, Sudanese.

But.

Yeah, sorry.

Yeah, no, no, the.

The character on the pit is actually Filipina.

So, you know, I thought that was.

That was nice.

Yeah, yeah.

And also just an erasure of how diverse people practice their faith in general.

Like, people's relationship with religion or Islam is not also universal.

And there's a lot of people mix in culture versus religion and a lot of stereotypes as well.

So that's like a whole other can of worms.

But.

Yeah, yeah.

But also, like, I think a theme that I'm hearing is, like, media really touches people.

So, like, what's represented in the media is gonna touch somebody in a very, like, unique, personal way to them.

And something that I've been thinking about from, like, our conversations is, like, something that really bothers me with representation of Palestine to begin with is, like, even with these new films coming up, I feel like we can't get away from the genocide label.

I feel like we can't get away from the fact that, like, we're experiencing genocide and We've been occupied for all these years, and we're really experiencing something terrible, which is very true.

And that awareness is very valuable still in media.

But I just, like, the stories that I really value from, like, my uncle are, like, about the olive festivals and, like, these really sweet stories of our culture that I just.

I really miss seeing in general.

And I think even that representation, in a way, can be bad for people because we can't get away from that struggle of, like, our people.

But we also.

Yeah, the concerts, like, we also need representation that is, like, our culture also in general, which is.

This is definitely something I've thought about, because we know that black Americans suffer from much of the same thing where so many of the stories are 12 Years a Slave or the podcast episode.

Yeah, exactly.

This is definitely something that I thought about.

Like, even just watching the voice of Hindra Shah and how beautiful it was.

It's like, okay, is this.

This all that I could hope for, that now it's, you know, telling a tale of suffering.

Yeah, exactly.

And I feel like, especially when it comes to Arabs who are so resilient, and genuinely, our coping strategy is to laugh, and it is to.

To make light of things and to just, like, tough it out, whether or not that's the healthiest thing.

And so to see us represented always as, like, a group of people who are just continuously suffering, continuously going through occupation, war, violence.

It feels like also such an injustice in a way, because, you know, they always see, like, say, like, Palestinians, we teach life like we.

We do.

We genuinely do.

Like, our culture is so rich, and it's.

It deserves to be portrayed in that way.

And back to your point, too, I remember, especially before October 7th, I would tell people, I'm Palestinian.

They would be like, oh, yeah, yeah.

But they had no idea what that meant.

Yeah.

And then after, it was like, because of everything in the media, the way they perceive me as a person completely changed.

And that was a very weird experience, genuinely.

But that just goes to show you how powerful the representation really is, because these were people that I thought were my friends, and then the way they saw me flipped, like, 180.

We can talk about that because you guys are the Gen Z Gen. That was me after 9, 11.

Oh, yeah, there you go.

So same.

Same parallel.

Yeah, same thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

When folks constantly.

I love that y' all also, like.

Yeah, you bring up.

You all bring up great points.

And especially when it also has to do with, like, when you're.

When you do, like, when you are getting that representation, it's constantly seen as traumatic.

Like, okay, what other narrative I'm gonna get?

Am I, like, am I going to be okay watching this?

You know, and while, like, those things, of course, like, are important, when you're constantly.

When you're constantly getting inundated with that, right?

We have, like, real life, like, real life genocide, like, happening, like, like we're seeing on our screens, like, every single day.

It's also, like, you're also getting that, like, on the big screen.

So it's like you can't, You're.

It's constantly trauma and not any of the other things that make like, like that.

That point to, you know, your heritage, which you love about your heritage, you love about your culture, like, all these different things, all, all kind of like these different aspects of life.

Right?

It's kind of like you said, like, an injustice in a way, because it's like, okay, great, we got representation, but now it's.

It's all trauma.

Like, I can't also celebrate boxes.

We end up, like, just kind of falling into certain boxes over and over again.

And sometimes maybe we do it unconscientiously to ourselves in some ways because we are trying to fight this juggernaut.

Yeah.

This, this, this huge thing which, like, I don't know, by the grace of, like, something almighty, like, seriously, the past three years, you know, really quickly, because I would love to.

I. I want to throw it to, like, I want to talk about the encampments and all of that.

I really do.

I really do.

Because, like, it's really.

It's so horrible what has been happening, and yet miraculous in a lot of ways.

Because I'm telling you, the shift in the narrative through the media because of the Palestinians on the ground with their phones has.

Shift has changed everything in a short span of time in a way none of us could have anticipated, could have foreseen.

We could do a million movies trying to convince the west or whatever what's true and what's not true.

And unfortunately, like, people still, like, didn't want to.

Wanted to look away and all of these things or ignore it.

And the media still wanted to twist it, but because of social media and because of the people on the ground, there was no denying.

There was no denying it anymore at all.

There was.

It just, it was just too.

They tried.

To try.

Yes.

They really do.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, but to take it from that now to, like, how did, how have people now been trying to take the reins from the largest student movement that has happened to date to, you know, people Just out here using every piece of resistance that they can, you know?

You know, I think, like, the Encampments is absolutely one of those films that, like, showcases the student and is part of the resistance.

So, yeah, I just kind of wanted to.

Just throwing that out there.

Yes, no, for sure.

Yes, we can absolutely talk about the encampments.

Um, well, I mean, Sara, did you want to say more about what she was mentioning, at least about, like, yeah, the encampments and resistance.

And I mean, while you were talking, I did just think, like, about, oh, putting ourselves in boxes.

I think it's really difficult because especially being in the diaspora, the amount of guilt you feel, especially like, I have family in Gaza.

And genuinely, it's.

It's so hard to.

To be present, to be like, okay, yes, we want to celebrate our culture.

We want to talk about holistically who we are as people.

But then at the same time, you just feel horribly guilty for enjoying anything when this is what your people are going through and you have so much privilege.

I don't really think there's a right or wrong answer to it, which is something that I'm still trying to accept.

But it's a very, very difficult balance.

So I don't really blame anyone in that sense of how we're handling things.

But in terms of the Encampments, like I said before, we were live watching that movie after leading the encampment at the University of Rochester here, and Safa was there also, throughout the whole journey was also a little re.

Traumatizing, but also insane because I think in the heat of the moment, everyone felt really alone in their own little encampments.

Like, we saw other students having encampments, but we didn't know exactly what was going on because it was just so chaotic.

But watching the film and watching the way administration spoke to the students, the way the media was spinning things, the way people came together, I was like, wow, they're using the same playbook.

But also, what's crazy is that we were so united and we didn't even know.

Like, we were really holding it down altogether throughout this country.

And we.

It was not a conscious thing, and it was something so beautiful to be a part of.

Honestly, it's one of my, like, favorite memories on campus, favorite memories in my life is being a part of that encampment.

And I feel like it helped us really grow as hopefully, future leaders who are going to continue this kind of work.

But, yeah, I would love to hear it was.

Yeah, talk about it because, please.

Yeah, I would love that insight because for me watching that, I was like, oh, my gosh.

Like, we showed at the Little.

By the way, we did show it here.

We had one showing at our little theater, and the show.

The show, everyone showed up.

It was awesome.

It was packed.

Yeah.

That's amazing.

No, it's.

It's so inspiring to hear that.

And, yeah, I mean, what you guys were a part of was one of the largest student uprisings in history.

And I think that sometimes we take that for granted, but that's an incredibly remarkable thing.

And I think the film was an attempt to sort of plant that flag and say for.

Even for history, you know, not even for this moment, but for history.

This.

This happened, and nothing will ever change that, and they can never take that from us.

What people were able to mobilize, what students were able to mobilize is so inspiring.

And, you know, the.

The ripple effect of that is still, you know, washing over the entire world and will continue to.

And I think that the next phase of struggle.

I know people are frustrated about what.

What comes next.

I don't know.

I think the next phase of struggle will inevitably come.

I think that's what the encampments showed, is that no matter what you throw at young people, they will always find a way to the truth.

And, yeah, being.

Being a small part of that production.

You know, I was teaching at Columbia University that semester.

I had just finished my MFA as I was a grad student there the previous semester or two semesters previous.

And when I saw the encampments forming, you know, I'm also part of the Palestinian youth movement.

And we.

We sort of.

It was a funny position to be in as both a professor and an organizer.

And I, you know, tried to maintain a respectful distance.

But also, just being on the encampments in the moments where it was open to the public was some of the most inspiring, like, intoxicating kind of feelings ever, because it just felt like a new world was being born, and we wanted to sort of capture that in the film.

We didn't even.

We weren't even planning on making a film while.

While the encampments was happening.

I'm so grateful for that because it would have been so stressful to think about to approach it that way.

And I know that there are productions that did try to approach it that way.

And, you know, it's.

It's.

It's been tough.

Like, I don't think anything has emerged that has fully, you know, been able to coalesce around a narrative or the moment in the same way that The Encampments film did, and I think it was just kind of a fluke.

We got oddly unlucky slash lucky.

However you want to look at it.

Mahmoud, who's a dear friend and one of the protagonists of the film, was abducted by Ice.

We sprung into action immediately and with the blessing of his, his people, you know, his family, his lawyers, the students in the.

Featured in the film.

We said, you know, should we, should we release this?

Should we just get this out immediately?

And people felt like, yes.

The unanimous, like, sort of feeling was that although there may be risks, thankfully nobody got in trouble for the film.

From what I know.

They, that those, those risks were worth getting this narrative out there and fighting the battle against the Trump administration who was calling Khalil, all sorts of terrible and untrue things.

So, yeah, I'm curious, where did you guys see the film for the.

When, when you saw it the first time?

I saw it at the little.

At the.

I think we screen it.

Yeah, we all did.

I cried.

I was like, oh, yeah.

It was so emotional.

One of the girls who went to Columbia was in the film for a brief moment.

Her parents, she's from Rochester and her parents were there and they came up to me afterwards and they were like, that was our daughter who got arrested first.

And I was like, yay.

I'm so proud of her.

I'm so proud of her.

That's amazing.

Yeah, it was.

Yeah.

Like, I'm so grateful for that movie, genuinely, because it's so difficult to describe to people what it was like being there in the moment and how we were being perceived by people who were very against what we were doing.

And it was.

It's so deeply frustrating because you're not doing anything wrong at all, but it's just the system around you that's really pushing for that.

Like, I was banned from campus.

Buffalo, thankfully, hasn't gotten any.

Gotten any conduct.

That's knock on wood.

Inshallah, this doesn't happen.

But yeah, and it was just.

As someone who's always been a straight A student, very type A, getting in this much trouble was like.

But I was like, I can't not do this.

Yeah, it was intoxicating.

Intoxicating is a great word for it.

Can I just say no?

So it was.

I don't know how you guys did it, Munira.

Like, I, I'm getting like flashbacks of like when you guys were running behind students inside certain buildings and they were being chased, I think, by the police.

And it was very action packed, for sure.

And I Don't know how.

How you were able to, you know, get some of that footage and including.

I think you had a few people, too, that they interviewed incognito, giving information and things like that.

And it was very.

I was like, oh, this is deep.

Like, really went there.

And I was like.

It was.

Yeah, it's definitely.

It's.

It sticks with you, for sure.

And.

And it was just like, you know, it was.

It was an exciting film, but also, like, yeah, there is nothing.

There isn't really a film, like, not like that, specifically about the student movement.

I think that it really hit the nail on the head, and obviously it's.

You know, Columbia was like the hotbed, and then, like, the ripple effects, like, really around the world, around it.

So, yeah, it's a great, great documentary.

Yeah.

Thank you so much.

And one of the things that I, like, took away from.

From the film, like, stepping back after having seen it a bunch of times while, you know, it was being released, is that it really is an indictment of the media and how out of literally thin air, they spun this narrative about the encampments, that they were discriminatory, that they were, you know, all the things that we know they accused the encampments of being.

And there was zero evidence, you know, and all of our recording and all of our coring through every minute of footage, every angle, every allegation, following it down, you know, just journalistically, to see what.

What is out there really.

There was not a single thing from inside the gates of the university that were even remotely, you know, offensive or I guess, discriminatory.

People can be offended by a lot, but if you want to look at it objectively, nothing discriminatory, and.

And yet there was this absolute frenzy, absolute circus around it all.

And really, it's so shameful the way that the media has just gotten away with it.

And I think it comes back to this.

This question of representation, of authenticity, of who's narrating the story, what are they saying, and the power of that.

The power of that slander.

So, yeah, just, you know, this is just sort of more of a general.

As somebody who's been talking about this for three decades, I will say, you know, slowly, being the older person in the rooms seeing these encampments was such a.

Like, I was like, the kids are all right.

Like, they got this.

I mean, like, watch.

Like, watching.

Watching this, like, sea change.

And this movement, this, like, organic uprising was like, oh, I don't.

This is like.

There's a whole new generation taking this on that has power and has a voice and is using it.

And, you know, it was just.

It was like.

It's been really as horrific as it's been these last few years.

It's also been, like, really beautiful to see the community, like, finally gaining traction and.

And, you know, people hearing the message.

And I think that's what the encampments movie, like, portrayed was that beautiful community that came together to stay on campus.

And even we had a lot of community members support us during the encampments.

That was really, really beautiful to see.

So shout out to all of them.

But, yeah, the encampments was so beautiful.

And as hard as it was mentally and emotionally, I think that just the beauty of it was so memorable and, again, intoxicating.

It was just, yeah, beautiful experience.

And definitely a moment where I think everyone now can draw strength from that.

Like, that was like, okay, this is doable.

Like, genuinely, we had nothing.

It was.

It was.

Started with me and a friend.

We went and we bought a bunch of tents from Walmart, and we just decided, we're gonna do this too.

And it ended up being exploding into a huge thing.

And we were like, okay.

And that really taught me that in the future, there's always something you can do.

There's always something you can create out of nothing.

You just need the people to do it.

And especially when it comes back to representation, too.

Like, throughout that past year and then the years since then, we've been fighting so much discrimination within the administration.

And the way that it's just so believable to people that the Arab students on campus will be violent, the Arab students on campus will be the ones to instigate things, will be the discriminatory ones, will be the threatening ones.

And it's like, that's genuinely their only reasoning.

They have to shut anything down.

And it just shows you how much all this media portrayal has worked on people, because why is that an acceptable answer to anything?

Right.

How can you tell me that the Arabic that I'm wearing on my shirt, the Kofi that I have, that automatically puts me in the box of, oh, you are threatening to people on this campus.

I'm five' five and my favorite color is pink.

Tell me how I am a threat to anyone on this campus?

It never made sense.

Or that your culture is something political.

Political, yeah.

Yeah.

I remember seeing at the graduation ceremonies, people wearing caffe and seeing videos of people ripping keffiyehs off of students.

Like, and there are.

People wear cultural flags.

They wear, you know, special ribbons to.

To celebrate, especially international students.

It's just so I think it was Munir who, when he was asked about Arab American Heritage Month, mentioned reckoning.

And I think the institutions and the way that they responded to student protest is something that we are going to be reckoning with for a long time, especially as the Trump administration has tied that to funding and, you know, rescinded degrees and things of that nature.

It's something that we're going to need to undo.

And it's, it's just wild to me the rhetoric that was put out around that and how many arrests were made, how most of the violence that happened was in response to students being tear gassed in response to police coming in.

But yeah, I think that I do want to, it's such a good example because people don't, of course we don't want to take away attention from the genocide.

But a lot of Americans don't realize how much the genocide also affects our domestic policy.

And the encampments were such a example of that.

Because of how the media responded, administrations responded to putting out these antisemitism protections that are really just coded anti Palestine that you can't say free Palestine, you can't say from the river to the sea, you can't, you know, you have a Palestine sticker and all of a sudden you're a danger to Jewish students, even though a lot of Jewish students were also in those encampments and targeted by Zionists and things of that nature.

So I just think that that's something important.

It really shows how this genocide that people like to say is happening on the other side of the world is absolutely affecting Americans a thousand percent.

Yeah.

If I can also just get in my kind of like geek out a little bit here because I'm hearing everyone and again making amazing points as per usual, but also talking about shifting the narrative and film being this opportunity to show what was really going on, showing the truth, getting to the truth of things, you know, when our press and other media like won't challenge, you know, those in authority, especially in this empire.

I think film is a great way of doing that.

And so like when you have a film like encampments, the thing that I really couldn't.

Well, one of the things like that I really, that I really appreciated about that film was that there was this juxtaposition happening.

So you would see the news clips, right.

Of I forgot what his name cause it's not worth it.

But in the news, talking about little Gazas, then you have.

And then also talking about whatever it was that they were saying negatively about the encampments.

Then you have clips showing students holding, like, different, like, little, like, workshops.

There's, like, they're holding Shabbat, they're playing soccer.

They're doing homework together.

There are professors coming and teaching classes.

Like.

Like, during the encampments.

It's like you also have folks coming, which I.

Which I know I was also part of, like, people from the community, like, delivering things to the encampments, making sure folks had, like, you know, food and water and access, like, to all of these things.

And so when you're seeing the juxtaposition between what the media is telling people and then what is actually happening on the grounds on the encampments, I think is a powerful thing.

And that's just like, me, again, like, kind of just like, looking at the editing, looking at, like, the direction, looking at how, like, the film is structured and everything to make that point is, like, media is telling you one thing, but we're going to show you what's actually going on and what, you know, what these.

What these students, what this community is actually standing for.

And then it also goes back to then.

And then you're seeing and you're hearing from Bassan, who is on the ground, like, in an interview.

Right.

Talking.

And she's also referencing, you know, not only what is happening.

Right.

But then also, too, like, with the encampments.

And I'm also seeing on social media again, and this is outside of the movie, of course, but, like, you're seeing on social media as well, folks in Gaza referencing the encampments.

Yeah.

And I also want to say on that note, us, we had so many community donations due to the encampment that we had.

And afterwards, we had about $5,000 left over.

I was able.

My family that's in Gaza, I was able to.

Me and my mom were able to get them that cash through some guy, and they were able to build a well that has.

And to this day is getting water for, like, that whole neighborhood that's in.

Yeah.

And that was, like, so beautiful because it was such a direct connection of, like, how our efforts really not only emotionally impacted them, but was able to physically impact them as well.

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

Yeah.

That's incredible.

Oh, man.

In terms.

I'm sorry, was someone about to.

Does someone else have at least virtually thought I heard someone about to say something.

I know.

I was just gonna say shout out to serious.

All the students.

Yeah.

Who participated in any of the encampments and also all the students who, you know, Whatever broke the rules by carrying a flag, mentioning Palestine as they were trying to graduate, and they got punished for it.

So.

And yeah, again, like Amira was saying, it's not to take away from what's happening, you know, in Palestine on the ground or in Gaza, but it just goes to show you, like, systemically how this country, you know, will vilify the innocent people over and over and over again just to, you know, to meet their own goals and to keep the status quo going, you know, in whatever case.

So, yeah, it's, you know, again, incredible.

Yeah.

An incredible part of history.

And still, it's still very inspiring to think about absolutely.

Getting into.

And you, you all referenced it in some way, but this shift in the narrative of how folks are seeing Arabs, how they're seeing Muslim, how they're seeing Palestinians, I wanted to like, also get into again, because, Munir, you're, I mean, you're not only like, you're not only producers, you're also someone who, you know, is head of production and acquisitions at Watermelon Pictures.

And also to Ryan, being an actor, can either of you, or both of you, like, speak to either any projects that you've either worked on or have been involved with where, you know, you're not only like seeing the kind of representation, like in whatever definition that is for you, but also too is like seeing where you're, we're seeing like these shifts in, like, the way in which, you know, Arabs are being represented or at least like the public perception.

Mineeir, I can start with you.

Yeah, no, thank you for the question.

Well, you know, excitingly, you guys were talking about less traumatic portrayals and we have an amazing rom com coming up this summer.

It's a Lebanese film.

It's called A Sad and Beautiful World.

It's really, it's, it's so sweet, it's so heartfelt, it's hilarious.

It doesn't, you know, gloss over the realities of, of life in the region today, but that's not the central focus.

It's really a wonderful, phenomenal love story.

We've also got all sorts of projects like that in the works.

A horror film, a sports movie, reality TV series.

So we're busy and we're cooking stuff up that you might not expect from Watermelon Pictures, but really excited to share when, when the time is right.

And in the meantime, you know, our platform has over 250 films that really span the gamut and Voice of Hindrance, which Amita was talking about, is one of them.

So, Ryan,.

I mean, Personally, there are things I can't talk about that some of my friends are doing.

So, you know, I will say most of the change that I'm seeing as far as Hollywood and entertainment is concerned is coming from Arab creators.

I don't, I, you know, I spoke a little bit about this.

Yes.

Or last episode.

You know, there's been a lot of, like, it feels like backtracking in Hollywood.

I feel like there's a push to sort of reclaim the narrative from some of the powers that be of like, wait, no, these are the bad guys.

Just as far as the roles that have come to me and that I have turned down.

Just so I do feel like there's, it feels like there's a backlash to this sea change for some of these, you know, especially.

I'm not going to call out any networks, but there are certain networks that seem to be a little bit more tied in with the administration than others that sort of, you know, push this anti Arab propaganda.

But I, you know, I have noticed my own friends are getting money to do their projects, whereas before finding money to do projects that painted Arabs in, you know, a great light was probably harder.

So, you know, I'm noticing the sea change that way from the big studios and the networks.

Not as much.

But again, like I said, we all saw Superman and Superman was very pro Palestinian coded.

Again, whether that was his intention or not.

Like they're, you know, there seems to be a sort of subtle shift in these bigger, bigger projects, even if the more obvious things are pushing back.

Yeah.

And then for, for our, the rest of our guests, I want to know, and Amira, I'll, I'll start with you.

Where have you seen, you know, this sort of like, shift in, in the narrative?

Yeah, definitely.

I think a large part of that being headed by watermelon pictures and movies like the Voice of Hindra Job.

And I think within our diaspora is where I'm seeing a huge shift of us.

A lot of it, in part because of American Israel, are the Swana identity has been so fractured.

We've been, you know, infighting, I guess you could say, trying to declare who's the worst of us and that we're not.

That sometimes, you know, people who try to renounce their Arab heritage or their Muslim heritage to distance themselves from that identity.

But within the work I've been doing and especially with stuff like the student encampment movement, with the BDS movement, we're seeing a lot more solidarity.

And that's something that I think and that I hope will continue to Grow.

There's, like I said, such a desire for it, for our culture to be spread.

You know, seeing more people wearing the keffiyeh, seeing more people rejecting what mainstream media is putting out about us.

Like, my heart gets fuzzy just seeing people use the SWANA acronym instead of, you know, reducing us to the Islamic world or the Arab world and things like that.

People asking more questions and being more curious when before it was just such a taboo.

It was such a rejection of our culture altogether.

And now which.

Shoot, I can't remember who said it.

Maybe it was one of the Khalidis.

But I know there's a quote that, like, they're speaking to Israelis and they're saying that, like, the reason we are so known is because you have tried so hard to erase us now.

And so being able to reclaim, especially like we were saying earlier, of, like, spreading that joy, I think is so important because unfortunately, Israelis have really stolen a lot of.

Especially Palestinian Arab culture.

And so they kind of have stolen that joy almost.

They get to sit there and claim the best parts of our culture and act like it's theirs while reducing Palestinians to the worst parts of it.

You know, what they characterize as the worst parts of it.

So being able to authentically share that, having those spaces, having people finally question that terrorism designation that is so callously thrown onto us, I think is where we will see that solidarity.

And I, you know, I hope it can be similar to, like, when we helped out the Black Lives Matter movement as far as, like, protest movements go and everything, that we continue to build that solidarity, especially with black Americans, with indigenous Americans fighting for Turtle island liberation.

That's where I'm really seeing this show through as we're given or we're taking back that permission to narrate.

Absolutely.

Safa, what about you?

What was the question?

So where have you seen the shift in, like, the narrative?

I think I would agree, especially within, like, the Arab community in general.

I think, like, I even heard back home within my family, just say you're Arab.

Like, don't say you're Palestinian, because they don't know who we are.

They're not going to understand what that means.

I remember in my social studies course, we were learning about, like, where the countries were.

And of course, Israel is always where Palestine is.

And I had this fight with a girl in my class about, like.

Because I asked a teacher, I was like, I'm gonna say Palestine every time you tell me that that's Israel.

And he was like, totally.

Like, totally understand that.

And one of the girls Every time I would say that out loud during class, she would, like, look at me like, what are you doing?

But, yeah, I think in general, just the momentum that we've gotten from the movement has increased our awareness so much that people now know Palestine as a term to begin with.

Because Sara mentioned earlier in the podcast that, like, she would say Palestine, no one would know what that meant.

But, yeah, I just think it's like, we can't have platforms like Watermelon Pictures like this unless we're talking about it and we're pushing it.

I mean, this genocide has been the most awareness that we've gotten for an issue like this.

I think, like, this has.

This is the first time it's ever been this in media like this.

So, yeah, I think just in people in general, like, people are actually talking about it again.

So.

Sana.

Yeah, I mean, I have to agree.

It's.

It's crazy how much has changed in the last two years, even just being on social media.

And maybe it's my feed, too, but, like, the amount of memes about hating on Israel.

Yeah.

Was never a thing.

A couple years ago, like, I was at the gym and I overheard these two white girls talking about, like, oh, it's horrible what's happening in Lebanon.

And, like, I can't believe the genocide is still happening.

And I was like, oh, my God, like, this is crazy.

This is crazy.

So.

And even talking to my parents, like, my parents will say, this is.

We've never seen support for Palestinians or, like, awareness of, like, Arabs or the Swana region like this.

And I think the point of solidarity is a.

Is a huge point, because I felt that in the encampment and then even getting more involved in, like, activism is that the amount of ways in which a lot of our struggles are interconnected and the amount of friendships, like, genuine friendships I formed with people who can relate to, like, having a country that's being occupied, going through colonization, having, like, an immigrant experience, especially a lot of our Hispanic friends, too.

No one mentioned that, but a lot of our, like, Latino community, too, a lot of solidarity in that.

And I feel like that's really helped because at the end of the day, if you see yourself in other people, you're going to want to fight for them, too, because our freedom, our liberation is all interconnected at the end of the day.

But I think in media, like, a lot of these films that we have on this list and everything didn't exist a couple years ago.

And that just, again, shows how much we've grown in the last couple of years.

And it's sad that it's had to come at the expense of the well being of our people.

And I think that's something that I struggle to think about as well because like I, I am someone who believes that everything happens for a reason.

But it's like, it's horrible that this is, was the reason and it's still not enough to stop what's happening, but it's a step in, in a positive, ish direction, I suppose.

So, so, so for, for our viewers and listeners.

So the, the list that, that Sara's referencing.

So we had like a list of like we were trying to think through like movies and, and everything that were, were more so like multifaceted like of, of Arab, of Arabs.

And so we've talked like throughout the series about shows like Mo, you know, and Rami and then of course mentioning Watermelon Pictures, which of course we're going to continue to do.

Y' all can go and subscribe to Watermelon plus right now.

Available for less than what you pay for Netflix.

Just saying.

So I'm going to just keep doing it.

So.

Yeah, but films like Palestine 36, all that's left of you, the Boys of Hinder Job, Foragers, which I also saw at the little theater and someone had mentioned the Battle of Algiers.

Yes, that needs to be mentioned by the way.

Keep going, Jackie.

It needs to be battle of.

Top notch.

Yes.

So, and then, okay, so this is like a random one because I'm like just, I'm like, I'm trying to think through and you know, we're going through real bad Arabs and you know, we're looking at all the negative.

And then I'm like, okay, where is, where are the multifaceted.

We're the complex.

Right.

And so the one that I come up with was the old guard.

So okay, so Gina Prince Wythewood, who is a black woman, she's a director.

It came out, trying to remember like it came out like a few years ago and there, and I watched it recently and there is a.

Okay, so he is an actor of.

He was born in the Netherlands, but he is of Tunisian descent.

It's Marwin Kinsari.

And so there's.

The film at any rate, is about a covert group of tight knit mercenaries with an inability to die who have fought to protect the world for centuries.

But when their abilities are suddenly exposed, they need to eliminate the threat of those who seek to replicate their power.

And so in terms of when I was thinking about, you know, representation and authenticity, it's like, it's not.

I don't.

It's not necessarily like a film that is focused so much on.

Because he's in a group, so it's not so much focused on the fact that he is, you know, Tunisian, like, he.

But it's.

It's a role in which, like, you're rooting for someone who is.

Of.

Who is Arab, who is, you know, of Swana then.

And so I just thought about that, and I'm like, this is like one of the few times I can think of, especially in recent years, you know, where it's, like, mainstream and just on a mainstream platform, and it's someone that you're.

Cause throughout the film, you're actively rooting for him and like.

But, Jackie, can I. I think this is.

This is actually what I was talking about that I think is in some ways more powerful because you're rooting for him as part of a team that has nothing to do with his identity.

And as you know, those are the types of things that Americans watch.

You know, like, they watch.

They watch this kind of a movie, and it's the, you know, I mean, like.

I mean, God, Braveheart's such an old.

But, like.

But like, everybody, all of a sudden, after watching Braveheart was like, yeah, Scottish freedom.

You know, I mean, like, we all just kind of got this, like, oh, yeah, we're all on board.

And I think as we just start, like, feeding these reasons for Americans to change, cheer for, you know, Swana folks and Arabs and Muslims without even realizing it, I think that's when they start realizing, oh, gosh, you know, they're just like us.

You know, they have the same wants and desires and fears and, you know, so I. I love that example.

I haven't seen the movie, but I love that example because I think that's so important.

Yeah.

I would be curious what you would think.

Yeah, you would think about that.

Just the film in general.

Like.

Yeah, because it is one of those.

Like.

Yeah, this is like one of those.

It's a blockbuster and, like, you know, easy to follow along with.

And, you know, it's.

Was that the one that had.

Was it Charlize was in.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I did want to say one other thing.

Just back to the.

The sort of narrative shift, sea change.

I mean, and I think I mentioned this last time, like, again, 30, 40 years ago, Vanessa Redgrave got booed off the stage for speaking about Palestine.

Now you've got Mark Ruffalo, Javier Bardem, Emma Stone, Yorgos Lanthimos.

You know, Ava DuVernay, you've got all of these, like, big names that are, like, willing to stand up and.

And say, to some degree, no more.

And, you know, I'm.

I'm not really a fan of, like, celebrities saving us, but I do think it's an indication of really where we're at that these people who are too big to cancel are.

Are speaking up, and they're comfortable speaking up.

I mean, Javier is wearing a keffiyeh to the Oscars.

Like, you know, I mean, like, I think that it says a lot.

Again, I'm not relying on them to be the.

The, you know, the vanguard of this, but I think it's just.

It really signals where we're at.

Absolutely.

You wanted to say something?

Yeah.

I think really amazing points are being brought up, and so I made my little list here.

I really wanted to have sort of a concise list of, like, okay, what are, like, go to films or positive, you know, representations out there that whether newer, older, what have you.

Jackie definitely mentioned already the list from, like, what's on Watermelon Plus To.

I said yes to the Battle of Algiers because, you know, the topic of today is decolonizing our consumption.

Well, that's as.

That movie is pretty much as decolonial as it can get if you're really, you know, if you're really about that type of point of view and education.

And the Battle of Algiers is not a film that I think the average American may not know about it.

Right.

But it is a classic and.

And wonderful.

You know, like, it's undeniable and it's not going anywhere.

Like, it's.

I think it's going to stand the test of time.

And there's, you know, there's something to be said about that.

So it's.

There's.

I don't know.

Two things can be true at the same time.

Me, personally, I'm not really a big fan, and nor do I really care that much about the Western gaze.

Absolutely.

We need more mainstream films to, you know, cut the funding and the BS and, you know, as far as.

Just because it's making you more money, that doesn't make it okay to continuously, you know, use racist tropes and negative tropes and all of these things towards our people, which, again, continues to cause harm.

And as Sapa was talking about, you know, specifically saying that you're Palestinian.

Right.

And that, like, triggered something in me because, yeah, our whole life, we, you know, before October 7th happened, it was always, oh, you're from.

Oh, that's Israel, like we wear Palestine.

I'm wearing my Palestine necklace.

And people would point at it when I'd be at the mall when I was younger and be like, oh, Israel.

You know, that's where I'm from.

I'm like, no, no, no, no, that's not where you're from.

And it's not called that.

So you know, these things, if we're talking about representation, it does start there about correcting people and not being afraid to say these things.

And I think where the shift is happening as we.

I thought of this.

There's a book called a kid's book called I Am from Palestine.

And the author made with an illustrator, they made a short film, it's on YouTube for free, called I am from Palestine.

Beautiful, adorable kids short film.

And it's specifically about that topic about this little girl going to school and, you know, her identity and where she's from being completely erased and the teacher not realizing or knowing much about this and you know, her going home and speaking to her dad about it and him kind of helping her navigate that so that she feels pride in where she comes from, that she's not like this confused, you know, like, well, everyone else knows where they're from and how come, how come when it comes to us, it's always a question.

It's always a question.

And how is it that these other folks are telling me who or where I'm supposed to be, you know, where we're supposed to be from or where my family's from?

Like, it's just this continuous thing.

So to even have something like that exists is a big deal.

It is a big deal.

It's a big deal for our kids, it's a big deal for our young adults.

It makes a difference.

And quickly, I did want to touch on.

Oh, I just wanted to mention also speaking of representation, I wanted to mention like actresses and writers and directors such as Shirin Dabis, who.

She's the one who created the movie, the most recent movie, all that's Left of youf, which is now playing, you know, across theaters, certain theaters and at various Palestine and Arab film festivals.

It's getting rave reviews.

Also take she.

They.

I think they shot, they tried to shoot in Palestine.

I think they got some footage in Palestine, but most of it was shot in Jordan because it's very difficult to do that.

But again, a film based on this intergenerational family and fellow scene and everything they go through.

She's also known for a film called America, which is again about this first generation family Again, like another film that, although maybe not as known, is still very important and, you know, does at least show this family who's new to the country and the things that they go through to, you know, to make a new home here.

She was in Mo, I think she had written part of that, some of the episodes there.

She played his sister on that show.

She's done.

She's great.

She's been in a bunch of different things and at least we have people like her.

We have Annemarie Jasser, who wrote and directed Palestine 36, which is also being played right now.

And she also wrote and directed Salt of the Sea, another very important film starring Suhair Hamed.

If anyone doesn't know who Suhair Hamad is, they should know her.

She's like a prominent Palestinian poet from New York City.

She got her debut on like HBO Deaf Poetry back in like two, right after nine.

Eleven was her debut and that was her main acting role.

So again, these specifically female artists, Palestinian artists that are telling their, their stories or a form of storytelling that is still relevant to our people.

And I'll just mention really quickly, Jackie Reem Saloum, she is also another writer, director.

She has done short documentaries of Arab American stories on pbs.

She did a short documentary called Planet of the Arabs, which is very much connected to Jack Shaheen's Real Bad Arabs.

And she's done one of my favorite documentaries when I was younger called Slingshot Hip Hop, which is about hip hop artists and young rappers in the west bank who are trying to perform and get a chance at performing for their people.

She's done music.

The group Dem, who is a main hip hop Palestinian group, is also in the documentary and she's worked with them and has directed some of their music videos as well.

And lastly, I'll mention there's.

So there.

There are.

You gotta do your research.

We will have this in the show notes for everyone.

But lastly, I'll just mention Nadine.

I think it's Labaki.

Am I saying it right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And she.

I remember watching her film Caramel, which is about a woman who, I think she works in a salon.

It's been a long time since, since I've seen this film, but it was a great, you know, sort of comedy film about this woman trying to like, like she's a hustler and she has to deal with like, certain things, personal things while she's working in the salon.

Yeah.

And she's also done more recent films also based in Lebanon.

So there you go.

There's just like, that's my little list right there.

I really wanted to get that out because.

Because we out here and they out here, we exist no matter what they say.

Have to, like, dig a little deeper sometimes.

That's all I was gonna say.

When you specifically said, oh, Palestinian or not Palestinian, but Arab women, I was like, oh, that's a whole other angle to this, is that a huge stereotype in the west is the Orientalist kind of caricotype of a Arab woman that's, like, very submissive, oppressed, et cetera.

And in the Encampments film, in so many of these films in our culture, you see how much Arab women.

Speaking for myself, Palestinian women carry the spirit of the resistance and are actually, like, the backbone of our households and the backbone of our cultures.

And that's like a whole other tangent I could go on.

But the idea of how Western feminism really leaves out Arab women is like a whole other.

A whole other thing.

And that so much, very much so, plays into representation and how that's depicted.

And I also wanted to say, in what you said, actually in what everyone said, but the idea of having representation of Arabs that's not centered around their identity, I think really starts with us in our everyday lives.

Because living in the U.S. what people see us as is usually not our identity.

First, it's usually like, oh, you're my nurse.

Oh, you're my.

You're a student.

Oh, you're my whatever.

And then once they come to know this side of us, then that's when the stereotypes come out, and then that's when the unlearning really happens.

And I think that's like, media is just a bigger version of that on a larger scale.

But I think what we do in our everyday lives, and sometimes it can feel like this isn't my responsibility.

Right.

But part of it is how we act as well.

Yeah.

On a lighter note, it just reminded me, like, when we all held up our Palestine necklace.

But it's funny because in the Arab community, it's very common for, like, you know, when someone's Palestinian, because the first thing they'll tell you is, I'm Palestinian.

Instead of being like, I'm a student.

I'm majoring in this.

Like, I'm Palestinian.

Hi, my name is Safa.

And you continue on.

But that just.

Especially the Encampments movie, the amount of women on that screen who were whole, I was like, yes, thank you.

Finally, Voice of Hindra Job was also the director, is a Tunisian woman.

I love her.

Yeah.

Listen, whenever you want to come Back to the podcast and get into, you know, just talking about women, like, in the movement and everything.

Because, like, you know, when we were talking about that and we were, like, thinking, like, through different films and TV shows that we could reference.

Right.

We're talking about Remy and Mo, and you're like, yeah, but also, like, there needs to be more women.

Like, we focus on the women.

That's a whole other podcast, too, but yeah, yeah, yeah.

And there's so much literature, too.

Like, I read more than I watch things, to be honest.

So there's a lot of, like, really powerful Arab and Arab American authors as well.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Well, I mean, I can talk all.

All day with y'.

All.

I did want to ask a couple more questions before we wrap.

Munir, I wanted to ask you this question, you know, especially given, like, your expertise in many roles and everything, you know, within filmmaking, for any filmmakers, right, who are working on projects that are taking back these narratives and just creating, like, really cool and amazing stories, you know, do you have any words of encouragement, you know, for them, as far as, like, building an audience, especially in a time where we're seeing, like, a lot of suppression?

Any thoughts?

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I think that we're in such an exciting moment, especially for our community.

And, you know, you guys were talking about that.

That Black Panther moment, that crazy rich Asians moment.

I don't feel like our community has quite had that yet.

So that is still up to our grab.

And I think that's an amazing goal for the directors, creatives in our community to chase after, because when it comes, I know that it's going to be a really exciting moment, and I hope that we're a part of it in some way.

Yeah.

So, I mean, like, what would you offer, I guess, like, to anyone who's, like, creating all of these, Like, I know you had mentioned, like, being in an exciting time and kind of like.

Like using that, you know, to just bring board.

But as far as just, like, I guess, you know, if someone's, like, listening to this and they're sitting, like, on a story and they're wanting to, again, like, I know for, like, our films, like, we're always looking for ways in which to build an audience.

But for anyone who is wanting to do that, especially where it concerns, again, representation, however.

However you define that, right.

Like, what.

What would you offer to them as.

As advice for, like, again, building.

Building audience, building momentum around these stories?

Yeah.

I mean, all the great artists of our time started the.

With that same urge, that same desire and without anything there, there was a point where all of them had no experience, no relationships, no connections.

So I think take the craft seriously, you know, that's what I would say.

Commit to it in a meaningful way.

It's not, you know, it's not a hobby, it's not a side passion.

If you want to really, you know, move this, if you want to move culture, if you want to move our representation forward, then we need people who are taking this as seriously as you would take the law, medicine, accounting, any other profession that you commit yourself to, you know, and when, when the time comes, we're here for you,.

Brian.

Unless the same thing of you.

And for any actors, you know, who want to work, who want to work on projects, what is the advice that you would give to them?

Oh, man.

I mean, honestly, Munir really said it best.

Like it's, you know, take it as seriously as you do being a doctor or a lawyer.

You know, get in class, work with your friends, create content.

I hate the word content.

I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that.

But, you know, I mean, create sketches, like write.

You know, there are a lot of us that write.

I'm.

I don't consider myself a writer, but I write just because it's something to do in the meantime, to exercise that creative output.

But I mean, honestly, like, get in community with other creative, like minded creatives.

It's.

There are a lot of people in this town who want to make things.

And you know, I mean, honestly, like, it's sort of that old adage, like, I don't even remember it, so I'm not even gonna say it.

But you know, like, success, whatever, luck, preparedness, success, whatever that thing is, like, be ready for when your chance comes, you know, and if you're an actor, if acting is your thing, like sitting around and waiting for it to happen isn't.

It's a very different world right now.

And so you, you need to be like, creating your own stuff, even if it's like little plays with your community, like, just keep moving because we need your voices, you know, I mean, like, we need.

I love.

I'm in a class right now and honestly, like, my class is almost entirely people of color.

And it's wonderful.

Everybody brings their own authentic experience to class and it's super great and it, it's invigorating and every time I leave, I'm just, I'm pumped to go home and Write and create and, you know, so be in community, I think.

Be in community.

Create.

Take it seriously.

Yeah, that's it.

Nice.

Yeah.

Thank you so much.

Anyone want to share anything that you didn't already get to share before we wrap up?

Amira, I'll start with you.

All good.

Anyone else that you didn't get to share before?

Would you just like to say I.

Love that you called Amira out, though.

We haven't heard from her in a while, but I know that she's also been soaking up everything that y' all have been saying, so.

Exactly.

Yeah.

I was just gonna say thank you for doing this.

Thank you for having us on.

Even the fact that this exists and, like, someone wanted to make a podcast about Arab representation is awesome.

Yeah.

I think genuinely, things are changing.

I think our, like, Safa even mentioned, like, my parents, how they react to being proud about who you are, being loud about being loud about being Muslim.

All of that came because we kind of pushed them to do that.

But that was not.

It was not in my parents generation's mindset at all.

And I'm really happy that this is changing and we're taking this on.

Yeah.

Thank you so much, for sure.

Yeah.

That is something.

I'll say.

That is something I just expressed on threads to Jackie of just.

I knew from the conversations I had beforehand that Jackie wasn't ignorant to this, but when I started meeting with her, it was just like, oh, wow.

Like, she is so ready to do this.

And having the whole series planned out, making sure that, you know, we started.

HD to be quite on.

Yeah.

Making sure that we started with, you know, the introduction with Orientalism, talking through all the terms, Swanna versus Mina and stuff like that.

It just was.

It wasn't just like, I don't really know about you guys.

You would have come on the podcast and, like, tell me what's happening.

You.

You really set the groundwork.

And so it's just been definitely.

This has been the highlight of my Arab American Heritage Month.

Thank you.

Ditto.

Yes.

Y' all are all invited back to the podcast to talk about whatever.

Oh, my gosh.

The one question I actually.

The other question.

I keep saying that before we wrap.

I swear, this is like the second to last question.

Second to last.

What's going on?

Like, post to an hour and a half.

It's fine.

No, because it's the last episode and we're going to talk about, like, like more positive stuff.

So.

So I did want to ask this because I heard it in the last episode and Ryan when you're talking about representation and you know what that means to you and everything.

You also mentioned, I believe you said, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but you said that you were a big.

As far as like what you really gravitate towards, like story or storyline wise, like, you really like fantasy and adventure.

Yeah, I'm a big, I'm a big nerd.

Yeah.

Okay.

What is your.

I wanna, I just wanna know what is your dream role?

Oh, God.

You know, I, I don't know if this is the dream role, but I really want to play a pirate.

Like,.

Oh my God.

I don't know if that's like the dream role, but like, I've always wanted to play a pirate.

I feel like I'm swarthy enough.

Like I should, I should get to do it.

Are we talking like Johnny Depp type of pirate or hook?

Right.

That's why, like Jack Sparrow.

Sure, yeah.

Or like Black Sails or like, I don't know, just like.

Yeah.

I mean, I honestly, like, I was really like this, this show that was out for a bit that was called Wheel of Time.

It's like my favorite, like, it's my favorite fantasy book series.

They're making an animated series now, I think, which is super exciting.

But like, I would have loved to have done something like that or be part of Lord of the Rings in some way or just like, I don't know, like that stuff to me is just like, yeah, you know, yeah, it's fun to go play a lawyer on whatever, but like, if I can like swing on a rope and chop someone's head off, like, you know, so not to like fulfill stereotypes or anything.

Ryan, are you, I did want to ask you, are you, the class that you mentioned, is it a right.

Writing class?

What?

Are you taking an acting class?

It's an acting.

Okay.

Because I want to say you can work on that script now in some capacity.

But also consider, I don't know, this is just a throw out there because we, for all of the artists out there especially, I mean, I know Munir does teach.

Have you ever considered teaching acting or anything in that realm at all?

I'm not a teacher.

No, you know, I'm really not.

I, Yeah, I don't know, maybe, maybe at some point.

But like, I'm, I'm not, maybe I'm too selfish to be a teacher.

I don't know.

Listen, I, I, I have great, like, abundant respect for my teachers.

I think there's a, there is, there is a quality in a good teacher that I just don't think I have like there is disagree.

I'm just going off of the last.

I would just.

It did you gave teacher ish but like fun.

Like fun teacher.

The fun teacher.

Like I make a good uncle.

Never mind a good guest.

You'll be a guest speaker for a class.

You just don't want to plan out all the curriculum.

Right.

I just, my acting teacher right now, I just like I think the world of him and his, his level of interest and focus and I don't know, it's just like there's a quality in him that I just like I admire so much that I don't find that I have.

So yeah, I could do like a little seminar though.

I'll do like a.

You're right Amira.

Like guest lecture I think is where I want to find myself.

Yeah.

Well I mean in the meantime, Munira, if you know of any filmmakers who are working on like pirate esque things.

Noted.

Absolutely.

Yeah, definitely connect.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Make it happen.

On that note, we are.

No, I really appreciate each and every one of you for being on the podcast and I meant it when I said that you're always invited back to talk about films, you know, the film industry, whatever it is that you are wanting to talk about.

Like yeah, we are welcome back on the podcast.

Where can folks find you and how can they support you?

Safa, I'll start with you.

You can support me by continuing to do stuff like this and talk and have discussions.

I'm big on like it's very important to be talking with your friends, talking with your families, talking with people, you know, talking at people at work about stuff like this because that's where conversations start.

Our Instagram, sjp.

Ur of course always go and support that.

Um, but yeah, I think conversations is where everything starts.

So having those and being willing to listen.

Sana, definitely the sjp Instagram definitely.

And apartheid rock as well.

Instagram.

That's where like a lot of Palestine organizing in Rochester happens.

And we're both a part of that as well.

I think that's.

That's pretty much it.

And like Supple said.

Yeah, definitely keep talking about things.

For sure.

Yeah.

Luna.

Yeah, so again you can find.

I'm on Instagram MN Najib7.

You can follow me on their email is mntaha mail.com and yeah, thank you so much Jackie.

I think just continuing.

Yeah to have the space and the resources and the time to continue these discussions for education purposes.

But also obviously we've needed this.

You Know, we've really needed this.

And Jackie, the first time she invited me, we were talking about no other Land and I was, you know, I was nervous to do that one.

I never done a podcast before, but, you know, that's, that's kind of how it started and more conversations started.

And since then we really have just like been continuing to try to figure out, you know, it just so happened like this month arrived, you know, and, and it's, it's wonderful that she was able to connect with the people that she's connected with and help us put this together.

Yeah.

So inshallah, like, you know, until next time.

It's been great.

Yeah, thank you.

Yeah, of course.

Absolutely.

Amira.

Yes, you can find me on threads primarily is where I'm most active at Amira outloud.

But I also post monthly on my sub stack.

If hear enough of me waffling on here, I am, you know, slightly more thoughtful, I guess, because you can edit the substack.

So go hear me.

Be very smart on there.

But.

And then inshallah, like we said, back on here soon.

Absolutely.

But yeah, no, feel free to again go to her substack, but then also on threads.

She is an absolute menace on threads.

And we support it.

Yes, well, yeah, Ryan's laughing because he's also that it's fantastic.

Speaking of which, Ryan, where can folks.

Socials.

I'm Ryan Shrime on all of my socials.

Yeah, other than that, like I said last time, cast me as a pirate.

That's.

That's how you can.

You can most support my dreams.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And Munir, how can we follow and.

Or find you and support you?

Thank you.

Yeah, follow at Watermelon Pictures on Instagram and subscribe to Watermelon Plus.

You'll see the work that I do.

Fantastic.

Yes, absolutely.

Again, cannot stress enough how grateful I am to have all of you joining us on the podcast tonight.

Listeners will have information about where you can follow and support that them in the show notes or in the description below.

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Again, if you haven't listened to our previous episode episodes in the series, we highly recommend that you do so.

Not only that, but do yourselves a favor and then go watch Real that's R E E L Bad Arabs, available for free on YouTube as well as the films and TV shows that our guests recommended.

Tonight, we're going to be taking three weeks off and we'll be back on May 21st to dive back into films that center black, brown, indigenous voices and stories.

One more parting word of advice from your friendly neighborhood filmmaker and film fan.

Just just because Arab American Heritage Month is wrapping up doesn't mean that you stop advocating for the kind of representation that shows the whole of their humanity.

Always be critical of the kind of media that you're consuming and who it's suggesting that you vilify.