Show Notes for The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast Episode 143: How to Grieve whilst Building your Career

In this podcast episode, I am chatting with Jazmyn, an incoming trainee clinical psychologist. We discuss her journey to becoming a trainee clinical psychologist and the challenges she faced along the way. We also talk about the recent loss of Jazmyn’s mother and how it has affected her personally and professionally. We emphasise the importance of allowing oneself to grieve and process emotions while also pursuing their goals. We go on to discuss the impact of personal experiences on one's ability to connect with clients and the importance of having a supportive supervisor.

The Highlights:

• 00:00 - Introduction to the episode's theme
• 00:33 - Welcome to the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast
• 01:40 - Dr. Trent introduces Jazmyn Thompson
• 02:14 - Jazmyn shares her feelings about starting her training
• 03:38 - Jazmyn talks about her mother's passing
• 06:04 - Reflecting on her mother's strength and motto
• 09:59 - Deciding to continue her psychology career
• 11:01 - Impact of her mother's terminal diagnosis
• 13:30 - Dr. Trent shares her own experience with grief
• 18:29 - How grief has shaped Jazmyn as a psychologist
• 24:15 - Finding moments of joy amidst grief
• 30:16 - Importance of honouring one's own grief journey
• 32:37 - Advice for trainees dealing with grief
• 38:47 - Encouragement to apply despite personal challenges
• 41:17 - Closing remarks and final thoughts
• 42:27 - Invitation to join the Aspiring Psychologist Community

Links:

📲 Connect with Jazmyn Thompson here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jazmyn-thompson-1a7826125/

🖥️ Check out my brand new short courses for aspiring psychologists and mental health professionals here: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/short-courses

🫶 To support me by donating to help cover my costs for the free resources I provide click here: https://the-aspiring-psychologist.captivate.fm/support

📚 To check out The Clinical Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3jOplx0

📖 To check out The Aspiring Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3CP2N97

💡 To check out or join the aspiring psychologist membership for just £30 per month head to: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/membership-interested

✍️ Get your Supervision Shaping Tool now: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/supervision

📱Connect socially with Marianne and check out ways to work with her, including the Aspiring Psychologist Book, Clinical Psychologist book and The Aspiring Psychologist Membership on her Link tree: https://linktr.ee/drmariannetrent

💬 To join my free Facebook group and discuss your thoughts on this episode and more: https://www.facebook.com/groups/aspiringpsychologistcommunity

Like, Comment, Subscribe & get involved:

If you enjoy the podcast, please do subscribe and rate and review episodes. If you'd like to learn how to record and submit your own audio testimonial to be included in future shows head to: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/podcast and click the blue request info button at the top of the page.

Hashtags:

#aspiringpsychologist #dclinpsy #psychology #assistantpsychologist #psychologycareers #podcast #psychologypodcast #clinicalpsychologist #mentalhealth #traineeclinicalpsychologist #clinicalpsychology #drmariannetrent #mentalhealthprofessional #gettingqualified #mentalhealthprofessionals #traineepwp #mdt #qualifiedpsychologist #traineepsychologist #aspiringpsychologists #wellbeing

Is there ever a wrong time to pursue your professional career in psychology or to advance it beyond its current state? That is the question. There could be a variety of reasons why you or others around you might be telling you that it could be the wrong time. And today we are taking a closer look at that with personal insight and reflections from my guest. It's a wonderfully powerful evocative episode. I hope you find it so useful.

Hi, welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast. I am Dr. Marianne Trent, and I'm a qualified clinical psychologist. As I said in the intro, we are looking at whether there is ever such a thing as a wrong time to pursue your career in psychology or to progress it beyond where you are currently. And we are talking with Jasmine Thompson who lost her mom within the last 12 months, and it is a really, really special episode. I cry, she cries. We do talk about grief quite openly and how it's affected us and our practise. And I hope you can look after yourself if you are struggling right now. If this does feel a little bit too raw, you might choose to watch or listen at a later stage, but it feels like a really important conversation to have. And so I hope you do find it useful even if you are not currently grieving, I think it will help you to really develop some insights, some understanding to what people you might be working with might be experiencing.

And maybe to think about this being a useful episode for if things happen in future. I would love to know what you think to the episode. Do please come and connect with me on social media where I'm Dr. Marianne Trent everywhere and also come and join the free Facebook group, the Aspiring Psychologist community with Dr. Marianne Trent. But yeah, please look after yourself. I hope you find this a really helpful episode and I'll look forward to catching up with you on the other side. Hi, just want to welcome along our guest for today, Jaymyn. Hi Jaz.

Hi, how are you?

I'm okay, thank you. Thanks for asking. How are you?

Good, yeah, good, thank you.

We were just talking about how it feels to be calling yourself an incoming trainee clinical psychologist because as we record it's the summer, but when this episode goes live, you're going to be days away from having that lanyard around your neck that actually says trainee clinical psychologist. So how is that feeling for you?

It's just crazy hearing you say that and knowing in a few months I'll be starting. It's been such a long time coming and as you know, everyone knows it's a bit of a relentless process. Well, it can be. For me it was quite challenging. So for it to be actually I'm there and as you said, seeing my name with incoming trainee clinical psychologist, it's surreal, but very grateful, very excited.

Oh, well done to you because I know they do not give these golden tickets away likely or easily, so it's absolutely well earned. But the reason for us talking today is that there's a very special, someone who you would've dearly loved to have been able to say, "Yes! I got a place! and they weren't there. They do you want to tell us a little bit about what I'm talking about jazz?

Yeah, absolutely. And I think those watching my eyes will go a bit glossy, but it happens. But my lovely Mum sadly died a year ago, almost the day. So in July last year in 2023, she had cancer. She first was diagnosed when I was actually 12, so around 15 years ago. And it was always kind of in the background, but my Mum was amazing because she never made it a huge part of our lives, our lives. She was amazing. She ran her own companies, so she worked through all her treatments and it was always something that was happening in the background but didn't hugely impact us. I think we were always very positive about the treatment she was getting. But sadly, a year ago she did have a terminal diagnosis. She got a brain tumour which was unable to be treated and we found out about that around April may time.

So it gave her about three and a half months left. So it was the most challenging thing I think I'll ever go through. But she was just incredible, her kind of motto and something she shouted from the rooftops was Every day is a gift. So she had her own company Let's reset, which was all about putting wellbeing and centre of businesses that I sat up with her a few years ago in lockdown. So she kept on talking about that until the very, very end. So it's very, very special. And becoming a clinical psychologist was something we always spoke about. I mean, when I started studying my undergrad, she started referring to me as a clinical psychologist and I was like, mom, I'm not one yet. Stop telling your friends and colleagues. I have one because I'm really not. But I think just manifesting for me and we've got there in the end. But yeah, third year trying. But I really do feel like it's the right time. And last year it would've been a very, very challenging year this year if I had have got a place.

So sorry to hear about the loss of your Mum having lost my dad. I know what a derailing process that is, but also you are younger than me as well, and so you hope and expect to hold onto your parents for a little bit longer. And it might be timely to mention a charity that I mentioned recently, but they can never get enough mentions really. So if anybody listening to this has lost a parent younger than 30, basically do check out the charity called It's Time. I think on Instagram they, it's time charity, but if you're watching on YouTube, there will be details on screen and if in your listening it will be in the show notes. But it's very unique to lose a parent so young and it does affect us and especially given that you had a long journey with her illness as well, that shapes us and leaves its impact on your childhood and your young adulthood in a way that is just, if you haven't had those difficulties, others perhaps don't realise what it's like to have had that. So sending you my deepest control condolences. Your Mum does sound like an incredible soul, and I've listened to one of her podcast episodes that you were in and she sounded, she's got just a wonderful, had a wonderful spirit, a real energy about her.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. She's just lit up every room.

And the reason for us talking today really is I remember when shortly after my dad died and I was looking at doing some training in EMDR and I was told maybe it's not the right time for you with all of that stuff and with your young child who's not sleeping, and it's obviously a really tricky time and you are juggling a lot of things. And I kind of mentioned, oh, I'm going to give it a miss this year to my friend and colleague who we trained at the same time. We were assistants at the same time, but we were on different courses and she was like, what? It's totally not the wrong time. You're going to love this and it's going to help energise you and it's going to help give you your why and give you your purpose. She was like, definitely, definitely do it.

I think this is going to be great for you. And actually she was right. She was right. And actually, I don't think I would've had the confidence to start my business if I didn't have a specialty or a thing. You think you need a thing, and often we don't need a thing because we're enough as we are. And maybe I never needed the thing, but I felt like having done the mdr, that I felt validated enough as well as the doctorate and the masters and the undergrad and the years of clinical practise, I needed an extra thing to feel like I was offering value for money. So I also, that was a very long story Jaz, but I'm delighted that I did what I did when I did it and it was tricky. And I did end up crying during my training because what we know and what you should be prepared for is that often all roads lead to grief. So if you're doing any sort of therapy practise, you only need to pull a small thread and then you'll get there. But it's okay to be emotional, I guess. We don't want you crying in sessions with clients necessarily, but I think we do some important healing whilst we're trying to learn how to heal others too. So tell me what that evokes for you. Tell me, had people said to you maybe grieve for a year, get on with training next year, maybe this isn't your time or the opposite, what was your experience?

Yeah, it's really interesting you were saying about your friend saying, go and do it. I had a similar situation. I think I was the one because as I said, mum died in the end of July and obvious the application start in September. So by the time it came round, I was thinking, there is no way I'm applying this year. How am I possibly going to apply? How am I going to cope? And I met an incredible lady by chance, absolutely by chance, who actually works in the B, BC. And I was thinking, you know what? I'm going to go into tv, I'm going to leave psychology. Maybe it's not for me. And with everything that's happened, maybe I won't be able to cope essentially. And I had an amazing dinner with her where she was very kind and generous with her time and talking about the work she did and asked me about what I did and what previously I wanted to do.

And she just said, Jaz, when you talk about psychology and even the DClin, your face lights up. You're so passionate about it, you need to keep going. And although it feels like right now, within the right time, I'd obviously told to the process of it, she goes, Jaz, you dunno how you're going to feel in six months time. By the time the interview's come up and you don't know how you're going to feel in a year's time, I can assure you it's probably going to be better than you're feeling right now. And she was spot on. She was spot on. So as I mentioned, this was my third year applying and previous years I was starting those applications in September, I was doing the reading, doing all the preparation that you can for the application. And by the time I started my application this time, it was the end of October, obviously I'd had previous draughts, but I think I kind of took the pressure off myself and thought, I don't know how I'm going to feel in six months, what's meant to be will be.

And I think I actually wrote the best application that I've ever written. I took that pressure away and I thought, you know what? If it's not meant to be, then we'll think about other things. And she was so spot on because by the time it came to my interviews, it had been over six months and my Mum had died, and I just felt stronger in myself, more resilient. My work had been fantastic. So I had a really good phase return to work, I'd got back into clinical work, I supervised. So with supervising, you can't screen out different cases. There were bereavement cases, cancer cases had to speak to a client who had gone through a similar situation as me. So I kind of felt actually I can do this. And by the time the interviews came out, it really did feel like the right time. And here we are. And I think it's one of those things that I know in a few weeks when it's the anniversary, that will be another challenging time. I've got a summer now to breathe, reset, but also do some of my own processing, and then hopefully by September I'll feel stronger still and be able to go through the waves of grief. Exactly what grief is. It goes away and comes up at different times.

And sometimes we will stand closer to that grief and at other times we'll feel a bit further away from it. So we recently had Father's Day, which I think was my fifth one without my dad, and I just, it's tricky. I miss him, but he's not getting any more dead. Do you know what I mean? Does that sound really crass? Yeah,

It's so true.

I've sort of accepted it now and knocked enough of the lumps off the trauma that it's just a level of sadness that is always, I'm getting upset now, but always the same volume unless I really connect to it. I hope now and that's okay. Yeah, it's okay. And it will be six years in December.

I didn't know it's going to cry today, but I think almost if you are thinking, oh, well I'll apply for training now. I dunno, I was thinking, so I was friends and supported a first year trainee when I was still in the NHS, and actually her parent died I think just as she was starting training might've been literally right at the start of training. And that was so hard to try and meet people form part of a cohort when you were in acute grief and then trying to get all your work together and get your assignments done and really, really tricky. And actually, one of the things I found most challenging about having a very unwell parent was fear that I would miss it. I'd miss the moment. And I was fortunate that I was able to be there and wanted to be there when I was, but I'm almost like gre from the worst thing that could happen for me, I'm missing it. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, no, and I can really relate to that. And I think last summer I was able to take off time to be with Mum, and I was right there and oh gosh, we're both getting each other going now. But I have that comfort that I couldn't have done anything more. And for those couple of months I was able to just think about her through all the things that you want to do in those past months. And as I said, she was so positive, so we had so much laughter and we were so lucky because we have a beautiful place by the beach in Cornwall, so we could see the sea every day. It was stunning. And I think just before I had, I think it was almost like the week we found out she was terminal, these things happen at lovely times. I had got my rejection from another Declan Uni and it was so bittersweet.

I was thinking, thank goodness in a way, but equally it doesn't hurt less. Every rejection really, really hurts. But I think where I'd be right now, if what had happened hadn't happened or if she was still suffering, she was amazing that actually the acute period of her being really, really poorly was actually in the scheme of things quite short. She went to the Galapagos with my amazing 80-year-old granny last January. So between January and May, she was incredible and well and fit. So I feel so lucky, and I think this process and this training will only make me feel kind of, I guess closer to her. I know how much she wants it for me.

Oh, thank you for being so authentic and sharing that with us. And we're both a bit of a mess today, but perhaps we're always going to be jazz and that's okay. We're humans. I do think I'm a better psychologist for what I've been through. Do you think that this has affected you as a human and a psychologist?

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And just even getting the experience of being on the other side. My mum had an amazing clinical psychologist from her palliative team and she was just incredible. And actually I was there in the sessions because mum was always worried how her body would kind of respond to emotion. But just having that insight into some of the work clinical psychologists do. And I'd never really had experiences of hospices before and I had so many expectations that it just wasn't accurate. I thought they were going to be really depressing and horrible places of people going to to die when it was the most, again, it was in Cornwall, it was the most beautiful hospice ever. They were so positive all the time, and it was really about making mom as comfortable and happy and able to do things as possible. So it's really given me insight into a part of I guest life that as you said, is inevitable for some that I wouldn't have.

And I think just being able to, I think we all go into this profession because we are compassionate, we're empathetic, but when you go through your own challenges, you can relate in a slightly different way. And then it's about just having a balance. There's moments now where I'm really thinking about it reflecting, so of course I'm going to get emotional, but there's an amazing, our brains are just so fantastic, aren't they? And they can compartmentalise and you can kind of have a work political head on where you can separate yourself more. And I think I find myself sometimes it touching and I think, oh, I can relate to this, but I'm able to hold myself back. And I think it's important to then have moments like today and connecting with others. And again, thank you for sharing your experiences. I think that's probably why I'm more emotional. You connect to other people that there's that time and space to be able to do so.

Yeah, and I echo what you said. I thought hospices were going to be bleak and gloomy and full of miserable people that hated their job. It's not people choose to work there. They adore what they do. Literally. They live for dignity and respect and compassion, special, special people. I spoke in the book the Greek Collective, which I put together after my dad died about, and I think about it with clients actually something called prawn sandwich moments. I dunno if you're familiar with me talking about that. No, I'm not. Even in our darkest times. So as you go on to process traumas with people in future, sometimes we just pay attention to the awfulness, the images that we've got of what happened and how awful it was. But we forget that maybe during that there were actually moments of comfort. Maybe somebody brought us a drink or in my case, I went to the cafe. So my dad had said, please don't leave me by myself. So I made a pledge to him, no, you won't be by yourself. Someone will always be with you. So kind of had a bit of a relay going, but I went to the cafe and bought a baguette and brought it back and sat by the bedside, which also feels a bit weird because he was by mouth by then, but he was like pilly boots. And I had the tastiest prawn baguette of my life

So nice. And I was really enjoying the food while sitting by his bedside and it being awful. But it's those moments that actually even during something really harrowing, perhaps someone gives you a hug or perhaps you have brought your favourite tea in a hot flask with you. And you can have moments where actually you're decompressed and you're self-soothing or you're comforted or you allow yourself to be comforted by someone else. And even in really horrendous things that have happened, when we begin to speak with the person who's experienced the trauma, even at the hands of someone else, when they're able to connect to those prawn sandwich moments of comfort or where it just wasn't so bad, where it was actually calm and quiet and predictable and controllable, that really helps to put punctuation in to otherwise what feels like just a big mess, a big soup flood of chaos. Does that make sense?

I so agree. And as I mentioned mom's little thing was every day is a gift. And we would consciously talk about the best things in the day and we would just talk about all the good things. And I think, have you heard of One Second a Day? It's an app where you take a one second of every day, and I've been doing it for, I started it actually before the first lockdown as Covid started that year because I thought, oh, this is going to be the best year ever and I'm going to do all these things. And then obviously we were locked in. But actually I continued the one second a day and I looked back on it, and obviously we remember what lockdown was like and being not restricted on doing so many things. But my one second a day video looks like honestly, that I had the best year of my life.

And in hindsight, it's even more special because I was with Mum, but because we were in Cornwall for it, because I was working, I was doing my PWP training in Cornwall. So we had the sea, we had the most amazing summer as well. So literally by the sea, every day I'm with mom every day we were eating good food. And I think it is, that video really hones that in for me back then. But actually even at a time that is challenging. There are always good moments in every day. And I believe that also with my time with Mum, obviously it was a really challenging few months in summer, but there were really good moments. And ours was a crab sandwich that was my prawn sandwich equivalent with the most amazing tips. I remember it. And because the great thing about mom is she could eat till the end, which I think well is the best thing ever because she loved her food. So we ate a lot of good food and it's always a good thing to,

That is important. So my dad died of oesophageal cancer, so eating was problematic for quite a while before he died. But your crab sandwich sounds amazing. And yeah, where do we draw the line between gaslighting and positivity and when clients are relentlessly positive, even in the face of tragedy and sadness, sometimes I'm like, it's safe to look at the sad bits a little bit. I absolutely see the value for finding joy. But actually some days I had a really shit day yesterday, one of my days clinically really, really rubbish, awful. And there's not really any reframing around that. Some days my little boy gave me a hug and my husband put the kids to bed. But this is just cushioning the rubbish, isn't it? At least everyone wasn't mean to me and didn't throw tomatoes at me, and they didn't all move out. It could have been worse, but just I was knocked professionally and confidently. And that has its impact, and it's not okay to kind of shine up our shoes and think, oh, it's all fine. It's all fine, because sometimes it isn't. And we have to honour our truths, don't we?

Yeah, and I think especially when you're going through a traumatic situation, you can't just hold onto all the positives and reflect on all the great things because the reality is it is really hard and there are elements that are traumatic. And I think grief is a brilliant example of that, that it doesn't leave us, as you said, our world around grief gets bigger, but the size and the pain of the grief stays the same. And it's just remembering that it goes in waves. And I think what I take comfort on, and I guess it is a positive stance, but I let myself, I'm having a bad day. I let myself have a bad day. If I'm really missing Mum, I let myself, and especially I know this time of year, it's a month till the anniversary, I'm going to have more wobbly days and moments like this, but I know that it will pass. And I know that there will be times where it doesn't feel as big and consuming. And I think that's what I take comfort in, that I can let myself, I can almost write off a day and be like, okay, today's not the day that I'm going to get things done in the same way, same way, but way tomorrow might be a bit better. And if it isn't, it'll eventually pass.

And absolutely, and sometimes some people say that actually the day of the week is more evocative for them. So for example, if their loved one died on a Saturday or Sunday or Tuesday, it's actually that day in that week that feels most connected because it's got a similar rhythm. Whereas if they died on a Thursday and their anniversary is on, I dunno, a Sunday, there's a very different rhythm to the day, if that makes sense. But in case it's useful, I never work my dad's anniversary. And actually I just try to make that a mindful day where I take a day's annual leave and just allow myself to be a bit sadder or to do something a bit more fun. And actually on my dad's birthday, so the pandemic did rather get in the way of this, but he died in December, 2017, and his birthday was actually 10 days before he died, which is just a bit rubbish.

But my brother and me and my mum on his first birthday anniversary since he died, I think did, we went skydiving, indoor skydiving today. That's amazing. So there's my mom who's 70 at the time, my brother, and I think I was 36, I might've been 37 by then. And my brother, who's a couple of years older than me, and we were all doing that together. And then the next year, so my dad was actually a boiler man, and he obviously often wore boiler suits or trousers. And just randomly the next year we went. So for two years in a row on his birthday, we were all wearing boiler suits. So I was really, really excited to see what 2020 brought. And then of course, very much like you said, we saw what 2020 brought, and we actually haven't done any more boiler suit activities. So if anyone's got any ideas of boiler suit activities that my brother and my mom and I could do, let me know. But yeah, I guess I make space for that, and that might be something that's useful and ultimately maybe I'll be able to bear to work his birthday or his anniversary, but maybe I don't have to. And that's okay.

I think so. And I tend to find that the actual days aren't actually that bad. I think it's the buildup because you are expecting it to be a really hard day. And it may be different as the years go by because I think it's a lot of firsts. And there's a lot of people that tell me, just get through the first and they're going to be hard. And I think similarly, my mom's birthday, we went to the theatre, we went and saw Hamilton, which was her favourite show. I went to afternoon tea and my granny came, my auntie came, my brother was there, so it was really special. But the day after, I just actually, I got through it. Her birthday was two days before Mother's Day, so it was the week of her. And then after that got through Mother's Day, it was okay, and then just collapsed. I'm so exhausted and emotionally drained. So sometimes it's unpredictable, but we just have to go with emotions. And I think, as you said, doing nice things to remember our loved ones when you can, if it's on the anniversary, then great, but if it's not, then that's still great. Just having moments to still remember them and do nice fun things. I think it's really important.

Yeah, it's very much you have to get to the point where maybe if it feels too difficult now, but ultimately we have to get to the point where we know that we are allowed to live a good full, enjoyable life. We're allowed to experience joy again even though that person's not there. And that's okay. I'm just thinking if somebody's listening to this episode and they're in the middle of something very tricky right now, what would happen if you were a trainee? And the worst is happening, actually, it is still just a job. You can take a period of sick leave absence, and I guess you'd speak to your placement supervisor about that. Hopefully you'd have a good relationship. You'd speak to your cohort, you'd speak to your course tutor, and you'd come up with a plan really for what's going to help you get through what you're going through and what period of time you might need. And ultimately, it's just a job if you need to defer for a few months or drop down to the next cohort next year, have that conversation. I guess, what are your thoughts around that?

I think communication is so key, and to be as open as you can and ask for help, it's hard, but I think I can't stress how important it's, I've always been one of those people that has felt like work is the most important thing. And I love it. I love the work I do, and I felt really guilty about taking time off work, but I had an amazing supervisor who was like, Jaz, it's actually, spending time with your mum is way more important than work. It is just a job and it will be exactly where it is when you come back. And when I came back again, I actually changed supervisor. My next one was just as amazing, and I was saying, I'm back and I'm ready to jump back in and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, like a million miles per hour. And she just paused me and she was like, Jaz, you don't need to jump back into it.

Let's go gradual. Take it as it comes, keep the communication open. And I did. I had a real phased return over a couple of months, and it was the best thing. Now I'm working at full capacity and have done since around Christmas time, and I feel myself at work again. I don't feel on the edge or I'm having to battle things or put things to one side. I just feel myself. And I can imagine in training, and I guess it's similar, NHS settings, we're so lucky in the NHS with the sick leave that they're able to support you with. And a lot of services are really flexible that keep that communication open so they can support you through it. And I'd hope that if it had happened during training, that I'd be able to get that same support in a similar way. And not every journey is linear, is it? And at the end of the day, you'll still graduate. You'll still get that title if you want it, but it doesn't have to be in one go if you have something this big going on.

Yeah, absolutely. And just like you said, ask for help. People aren't mind readers, and you don't need to put all this pressure on yourself to keep doing everything and juggling all the plates. And I think it's a little bit different if we are not doing a clinical facing role because you can kind of be a bit more insular. But what you so nicely demonstrated when you're talking about supervision is that you're going to get stuff that's going to rub up against your raw wounds when you least expect it. So when I did my phased return, we did try to avoid grief stuff, but then I ended up picking up a client with the same name, the same name cropped up as being key to the story. And I was, oh, you just couldn't necessarily see that coming. And like you said, there's death and illness and dying everywhere. And even when you are trying to be a bit selective, you will still get rubbed and you need to make sure that you aren't going to be a complete mess and you're still going to be helpful and not just make it transfer countertransference, all that good stuff. But good relationship with your supervisor is key, isn't it?

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. No, I had a call with a client who was really upset and recently bereaved, and he was like, you just don't understand to me getting really upset. And I'm like, I do, but I can't say I do. And it was really challenging, but again, my supervisor was amazing, and I think where you can be flexible and avoid those cases where you can is great, especially in the early stages, but it's also that understanding that we can't screen out everything, and of course it will come out, but it's important to think step back and reflect afterwards. Has that impacted me? Where am I feeling? How am I fitting with it right now and how can I go forward?

Yeah, I mean, I guess it depends on the placement and it depends on your style and it depends on what feels authentic to you. But I will often now these days say, oh, I'm really sorry to hear that. I lost my dad too. So I kind of get some of what you're saying. And then you almost can take a breath think, oh, right, okay. Right. It almost levels the playing field and where you are at. You and I obviously have a lot in common, and so you feel like it deepens the work almost because you've got that context and that shared understanding. But that said, we don't need to have experienced the thing that someone has experienced to be able to clinically help them. But it's a balance and it's what feels okay for you and what feels safe. And if you're in a dynamic service, and obviously that's not what you're going to do, you're going to very measured in our responses. Okay. Is there anything we haven't spoken about that you think would be useful for somebody that's mulling over all of this stuff?

I think the only thing, bringing it back to applications, I would just always say just do it. The application process is such a long process and as my amazing call a guardian angel, Sue told me, you dunno how you're going to be feeling in six months time. So if you are going through something around that September period, just put the application through and wait and see. You don't know what's going to happen. Take the pressure off yourself and have comfort in the experience you have and what's meant to be will be. We know amazing potential clinical psychologists don't get on because of the demand and everything else. So I think don't take yourself out of the running because you don't feel ready in the moment. I also think that the first year I'm so glad I applied. It wasn't anywhere near ready the first year I applied, but I wanted to get to know the process because it's quite a unique process.

And again, it was a trial run. And actually I ended up on a reserve list of my first year because again, I think I took the pressure off second year. I put so much pressure on myself to get it, and the mom got ill in the middle of it, so that didn't work out so well. And then this year, again, pressure was off, but I felt ready. And I think you get to know the process and just have confidence in yourself, but also rejections are always going to be hard. They're always going to hit, they're always going to make you feel like you've failed even though you haven't. So as everyone says, and I know your previous episodes have said, you've said it's important to be kind to yourself and protect your energy around it as well.

Thank you. That's such good advice. And I know that you kind of slipped into my dms on LinkedIn originally to say how much you've enjoyed the podcast and how it's been a really nice companion to you during this process. So thanks for your kind words both today and before the podcast. And once again, I'm so sorry for the loss of your mom. She sounds very special. People want to listen to her podcast, which is still running. Where can they do that

On Spotify is the best place to go. It's called Let's Reset the Podcast. Obviously the last episode is quite a triggering episode. It was her last one, and she very much openly spoke about dying, but also about her career in marketing and her most recent business. Let's reset. But the whole key idea of it was talking to lots of different entrepreneurs, CEOs, people in business, and talking about how their wellbeing impacts what they do. So there's some brilliant, brilliant speakers on it ran for about three years, so that's about 50 episodes to listen to. Amazing. Yeah, hopefully.

I'm sorry I never got a chance to talk with her, but I'm pleased that I got a chance to speak with you. Well done. And wishing you all the very best for your training and beyond, and if you need anything, give me a shout.

Thank you, Marianne. It's been such a pleasure to be on the podcast, and yeah, I hope it helps one or two people going through similar challenges.

I'm sure it will. I'm sure it will. Thank you so much for your time.

Thank you.

Oh, thank you so much to our guest, jazz, what a very special episode that has been. Thank you for listening all the way through and watching all the way through. If you are on YouTube, I would love to know what you think to this. You can drop a comment on Spotify. If you have got any thoughts, you can also drop a comment on YouTube where I'm Dr. Marianne Trent. I would love your feedback. Come and let me know on my socials, Dr. Marianne Trent, come and join the free Facebook group, the Aspiring Psychologist Community. It feels that this podcast is doing such important things. What a privilege it is to do and to have such important, powerful, poignant conversations such as that, that I had with jazz. If you enjoy the support and the camaraderie of this podcast, imagine what it's like in the Aspiring Psychologist membership, which you can join from just £30 a month.

Please do check out the books, the Aspiring Psychologist Collective and the Clinical Psychologist Collective, and with special relevance today, the Grief Collective, which is a unique collection of 54 stories related to people who've grieved, not just for people who've died, but things they've lost or people they've lost. Mostly it's people. Yeah, it's also wonderful reviews. Thank you so much. Please do subscribe. Please do follow the show. That is the kindest thing you can do for any podcaster if you value their content, is just to subscribe or follow the show. Thank you so much. If you've got any ideas for future episodes, please do let me know. Take care of yourself, be kind to yourself. I'll look forward to bringing you the next episode of the podcast, which will be available from 10:00 AM on Saturday and from 6:00 AM on Mondays for the MP three wherever you get